For The Love With Jen Hatmaker Podcast

This week’s top episode from the archives is our number one most listened to episode. In a profoundly moving encore episode, Jen Hatmaker shares the story of interviewing her daughter, Sydney, as Sydney shared her emotional coming out story. This raw conversation follows Sydney as she vulnerably shares her journey of accepting herself as gay while still holding onto her faith–and we’re very excited to share this again during Pride Month as part of our Queer Futures series. Jen reintroduces the episode reflecting on what’s changed since this conversation and how it’s affected her community. Three years later, this episode remains an incredible force, sparking deep discussions around LGBTQ+ issues and Christianity in our community. Jen recalls the immense reach and impact this episode evoked - from mending broken family relationships to causing church leaders to reevaluate their approach. As Jen reflects on Sydney’s growth, it’s a beautiful reminder that embracing authenticity allows people to flourish. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I was just scared, and alone. And I wanted to have it all. I wanted to have my family, and God, and my future. And I didn't think I'd be able to have it all.” -Sydney Hatmaker “It doesn't matter how loving you are, or what emphasis on Scripture you come with. That's not enough if you're not fully accepting them as children of God.” -Sydney Hatmaker “Your allyship can't be about you, and it can't be performative, and it has to be for everybody. And it has to be about love.” -Sydney Hatmaker Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this emotionally charged last episode in our For the Love of the Matriarchy series, Jen shares an intimate and profound conversation with Christine Blasey Ford, who came into the public eye when she testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee on September 27th, 2018, while it was considering the nomination of Judge Brett Kavanaugh to the United States Supreme Court; describing an alleged sexual assault by the Supreme Court nominee that took place at a high school party in the 80s. Christine, with brave vulnerability, opens up about her harrowing experience in the aftermath of her testimony and the tsunami of public scrutiny she faced. Through her story, we're reminded of the incredible power of women when we come together, support one another, and find our collective voice against injustices. This episode is not just a dialogue; it's a clarion call to all women to connect, share, and empower each other in a world that often seeks to silence us. Christine shares with Jen: the moment she heard that Brett Kavanaugh was on a short list of Supreme Court justice nominees and the immediate reaction that she needed those in power to know the truth the emotional toll the aftermath of the experience took on Christine and her family, and the safety measures they had to employ because of constant death threats why she decided to write a book, One Way Back, to tell the story now, citing what she learned through the experience and what she knows now about the many other women in history who have also spoken their truth about sexual harassment and assault the incredible amount of support she received from women and sexual assault survivors in the form of letters, which carried her through some of the most difficult moments Jen and Christine's conversation underscores a crucial message: when women connect, we're not just powerful together; we're unstoppable. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “It took many years to feel that I was ready to say something and to break the silence. I had been silent for so long. I was feeling a little bit guilty even, for having so much focus and learning about the contributions of so many other women in so many different venues who have spoken up against sexual harassment and sexual assault. And I just thought, 'Wow, I need to share all the things that I didn't know beforehand. Maybe I could share them and maybe it will help someone.'" - Christine Blasey Ford “The system can often work in ways that make [women] feel divided and makes us feel negatively towards each other. But when we actually connect, we're really powerful together.” - Christine Blasey Ford Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Christine’s Senate Judiciary Committee Testimony - https://bit.ly/3UzlYeof  One Way Back: A Memoir by Christine Blasey Ford - https://bit.ly/4dHlk7C Washington Post Article featuring Christine Blasey Ford - https://bit.ly/4bjFNh3 Guest’s Links: Christine’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/christine_talkinout/ Christine’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/fordchristine66 Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today we’re diving into the profound biological, psychological and social shifts experienced when becoming a mother - a process known as "matrescence.” Jen sits down with science journalist, Lucy Jones, who experienced a seismic identity shift that arose after the birth of her first child.   Lucy and Jen unpack groundbreaking neuroscience research and they expose the deep-rooted myths and unrealistic expectations surrounding modern motherhood. From the minimizing of postpartum struggles to the pressure of "natural birthing" ideals, Lucy reveals how these systemic fictions can breed shame, isolation and maternal mental health crises. Jen and Lucy discuss: The concept of "matrescence" - the biological, psychological and social transition to becoming a mother that renders profound identity changes How modern cultural myths and idealized notions of motherhood as blissful and "natural" can be deeply alienating and contribute to maternal mental health issues The systemic lack of scientific research and societal rituals to prepare and support women through the seismic transformation of matrescence The need to construct new narratives, share vulnerable experiences, and build community care around the modern realities of the matrescence * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “[Matrescence] is a very simple concept that means the process of becoming a mother. The word is a little bit like 'adolescence'. It was coined by the late American anthropologist Dana Rafael in the 70's. She also coined the word 'doula'. She first wrote about it in an essay collection published in 1974 where she talks about how, in most societies and cultures across the world, people have always had a sense that a mother is born when a baby is born. But she also describes your identity, your social relationships, your roles, your everyday life, your mind, your psychology, and your emotions." - Lucy Jones Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Matrescence by Lucy Jones - https://bit.ly/4dDYI83 Foxes Unearthed by Lucy Jones - https://bit.ly/44E9Uxp Losing Eden by Lucy Jones - https://bit.ly/4byVO2k Dana Rafael (an American Anthropologist) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dana_Raphael  “The Birth of a Mother” (A New York Times Article by Alexandra Sacks) - https://bit.ly/4bow0WK 2017 NIH Article on Pregnancy Leading to Changes in the Brain - https://bit.ly/3UAGiMK Of Woman Born by Adrienne Rich - https://wwnorton.com/books/Of-Woman-Born/ Andrea O’Reilly - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_O'Reilly Guest’s Links: Lucy’s Website: https://lucyfjones.com/ Lucy’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/lucyjones Lucy’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lucyfjones/ Lucy’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lucyjonesbooks/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode of the Matriarchy series, we explore how deeply ingrained patriarchal narratives can create a policing effect on the behavior of women.  Author, Elise Loehnen, discusses her book "On Our Best Behavior" which examines how concepts like the seven deadly sins have historically been used to restrict women's behavior and police their adherence to an idealized form of "goodness." Loehnen unpacks the insidious ways women are culturally conditioned from a young age to suppress normal human drives like anger, ambition, and sexuality. And how disrupting rigid gender stereotypes is important when raising the next generation in order to build a more compassionate world.  Jen and Elise discuss: How women are culturally conditioned and expected to embody "goodness" while men are oriented toward power  How concepts like the "seven deadly sins" have historically been used as a patriarchal "punch card" to police women's behavior Why raising boys to have an emotional inner life nurtures positive identity development The current era of politics that calls for women to challenge the patriarchal system while also having compassionate dialogue to build a new, care-centered world where everyone can flourish * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Women are trained for goodness and men are trained for power.” - Elise Loehnen “The worst thing for a woman is reputational harm--just the assigning of her badness. Bad mother. Toxic coworker. Toxic boss. Unkind. She says the wrong thing. And it's sort of impossible to defend yourself against that. We have zero tolerance, and it's very scary.” - Elise Loehnen "We need a culture where the men are like, 'I would like to be more like women. I need to be caring. I want to be nurturing and creative. And yes, I can be strong and I can be masculine, but I also need this underdeveloped muscle.'" - Elise Loehnen Resources Mentioned in This Episode: On Our Best Behavior by Elise Loehnen - https://bit.ly/44tz41D Goop - https://goop.com For the Love of Being Seen and Heard ft. Lori Gottlieb - https://bit.ly/4b8YT9C Maybe You Should Talk to Someone by Lori Gottlieb - https://bit.ly/3JO7FOn Evagrius Ponticus (Fourth Century Christian Monk) - https://bit.ly/4b7zEV5 Pope Gregory on the 7 Deadly Sins - https://bit.ly/3y1J1XK Harvey Weinstein Abuse Cases - https://bit.ly/4b5ktM5 Carol Gilligan - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Gilligan In a Different Voice by Carol Gilligan - https://bit.ly/3JQ9IBh   Human Voice by Carol Gilligan - https://bit.ly/3UQ1Rcn Andrew Tate - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Tate Order, Disorder, Reorder (An idea Developed by Richard Rohr) - https://bit.ly/44xzHqK For the Love of The Enneagram ft. Richard Rohr - https://bit.ly/3QzzZaW Loretta Ross - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loretta_Ross Guest’s Links: Elise’s Website - https://www.eliseloehnen.com/ Elise’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/eliseloehnen/ Elise’s Twitter - https://www.twitter.com/eloehnen Elise’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/EliseLoehnen/ Elise’s LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/elise-loehnen-b867523/ Pulling the Thread (Elise’s Stubstack Blog) - https://eliseloehnen.substack.com/ Pulling the Thread (Elise’s Podcast) - https://www.eliseloehnen.com/episodes Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Continuing In our For the Love of The Matriarchy series, Jen talks with powerful women who are taking innovative approaches to their work, their relationships, and their joy. Bozoma Saint John is a trailblazing marketing executive whose career has taken her to the heights of companies like Pepsi, Apple, Uber and Netflix. But her path to becoming a "badass" has been one marked by profound loss and upheaval.  From the loss of her first child and her husband's battle with cancer, to being told she's "too much" by those closest to her, Bozoma opens up about summoning resilience from life's lowest lows. She discusses redefining what true strength looks like, embracing authenticity even when it ruffles the status quo, and pioneering a collaborative model of single parenthood that makes space for her daughter's voice. Jen and Bozoma discuss: Embracing authenticity even when it ruffles the status quo and offends those in power Redefining strength not as impenetrable toughness, but as the pliability in experiencing brokenness yet still rising again The complexities of reconciling life's tragedies with its gifts and holding space for gratitude amid loss Pioneering a collaborative, trust-based model of single parenthood that makes space for her daughter's voice and needs For anyone craving inspiration to honor their scars while uncompromisingly claiming their power, this is a master class. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Privilege is a reliable enemy of equality. And it is sometimes insidious the lengths we’ll go to protect it because we're still benefiting [from it].” - Bozoma Saint John "You don't have to have had the same losses I've had or suffered the same way I suffered to prove that you are worthy of the scars that you bear. You have them and it's okay." - Bozoma Saint John “My parenting has changed because I need to make space for [my daughter] to be honest with me about what she needs so that I can be the mother that she needs; not necessarily the mother that I think is needed.” - Bozoma Saint John "The most amazing thing about being human is how incredibly tied we are to each other. And it is a beautiful thing that even through our pain, we are still tied together as human beings." - Bozoma Saint John Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Bozoma’s Marketing Hall of Fame Induction: https://marketinghalloffame.org/inductees-leading-marketers/bozoma-saint-john-2022-marketing-inductee/ 2021 Most Influential CMO: https://www.forbes.com/connect/event/2021-wmi-cmos/ Ambassador to the African Diaspora and Special Envoy to the President of Ghana: https://bit.ly/4bhmVig. Guest’s Links: Bozoma’s Website: https://www.bozomasaintjohn.com/ Bozoma’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SaintBoz Bozoma’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/badassboz Bozoma’s Instagram: http://instagram.com/badassboz Bozoma’s Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bozoma-saint-john-0305441/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the For The Love of The Matriarchy series where we’ll explore all the different aspects of women working to embrace agency and celebrating their worth. As we celebrate the power of women and their accomplishments, we’ll also look at the challenges women have faced in a patriarchal society (and still face) and what that means for their bodies and autonomy.  Cait West is an author who grew up in an extreme patriarchal Christian community. She was taught from a young age that her sole purpose was to become a submissive wife and mother. This pervasive sense of having no agency or control over her own life, combined with the constant messaging that she was inherently sinful and unworthy, took a profound toll on Cait's mental health, causing severe anxiety and depression from a very young age. Jen and Cait delve into how families can fall into toxic belief systems, and what recovery can look like. Jen and Cait discuss: The impact of being raised in a fundamentalist, patriarchal environment that severely restricts a woman's autonomy, education, and life choices. The healing power of finding community, sharing one's story, and reclaiming agency after experiencing spiritual abuse and trauma. The difficult but important choice of breaking free from oppressive systems, even when it means severing ties with your own family * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: "[My husband] has always been my steady companion because he experienced some of that verbal abuse from my dad, and he knew what it was like...When I would have anxiety attacks, he didn't understand what was going on either, but he would just sit with me until I could get through it and come back to regulate my nervous system. He just was there with me through it. And that meant more than having someone try to fix it or totally tell me what to do." - Cait West "I realized I had a story to tell. Going to writing conferences and learning from other writers like you who were talking about speaking up for injustice, I decided to tell part of my story online. I started doing that around 2018 and realized there's a lot more people who've been through this and they've just been silenced or afraid — people who if they say something, their family's going to cut them off. That's what happened to me in 2019. I had an interview and I started talking online about my experience and my dad decided not to talk to me anymore. I understand that fear but once I lost that relationship, I felt liberated to tell my story. Because somebody has to. Somebody has to say something." - Cait West "Cait's my real first name, and then West is my grandmother's — what we call the maiden name. It's always resonated with me, my mother's heritage, because they're Southerners, they grew up in poverty. The women in my family have always been the leaders and the strong people of faith. And so to me, it's kind of like calling back to that heritage and recognizing it and trying to hold on to some kind of legacy after losing so much of my life." - Cait West Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Christian Patriarchy Movement - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_patriarchy Tears of Eden (Nonprofit for survivors of spiritual abuse - https://www.tearsofeden.org/ Rift: A Memoir by Cait West - https://www.caitwest.com/book Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.caitwest.com/ Twitter - https://bit.ly/3UytS9l Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/caitwestwrites/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/caitwestwrites/?hl=en TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@caitwestwrites Substack - https://caitwest.substack.com/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In our lives, we are often confronted with moments of profound change - whether it's the result of circumstances beyond our control, or a deliberate choice to step into something new. During these pivotal transitions, it can be tempting to focus on pleasing others or trying to meet the expectations of our family, friends, and community. However, truly transformative growth requires the courage to choose ourselves and to trust our inner wisdom. Author and activist, Najwa Zebian, offers a powerful example of what it looks like to reclaim one's autonomy in the face of a lifetime of feeling out of place and unworthy. Her journey of self-discovery provides a roadmap for navigating change with conviction, self-compassion, and a commitment to living one's truth. Jen and Najwa explore:  The profound impact of emotional neglect and feeling out of place can deeply shape one's self-worth and choices later in life. Connecting with the power of language and self-expression can be a vital lifeline and pathway to healing. Making bold choices for oneself can be a necessary and courageous act of self-preservation. Allowing one's "world to revolve around you" and trusting your own inner wisdom is essential for navigating life's changes and uncertainties with conviction and self-compassion. Author Bio Dr. Najwa Zebian is a Lebanese-Canadian activist, author, speaker, and educator. Najwa began to write to connect with and help heal her first students, who were a group of young refugees. Through that effort with her students, she began a deep healing process for herself. She is the author of six books. She delivered the Ted Talk, “Finding Home Through Poetry.” She also recently launched a digital school called Soul Academy and a podcast called “In the Clear.” Her latest book is called “The Only Constant.” * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Neglect isn't just about not getting your basic needs met. I think the most harmful neglect is not getting the things you do need." - Najwa Zebian "There was always this invitation to not allow myself to experience anger because it was a negative thing. But now I realize there's healthy anger; there's healthy resentment; and it's also healthy to project those feelings outwards. Otherwise, they're inside." - Najwa Zebian "I look at myself as a people pleaser — as somebody who's like, "I can't handle disappointing someone, I can't handle disappointing my family, I can't." But it got to a point where I was definitely willing to do that because I was so aware that continuing to live my life in a certain way meant that I was going to be suffering so much, and I wasn't willing to suffer in that way [anymore].” - Najwa Zebian Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Finding Home Through Poetry (Najwa’s Ted Talk) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNRygxe_8Ys Soul Academy (Najwa’s Digital School) - https://najwa-soul-academy.teachable.com/p/home In the Clear (Najwa’s Podcast) - https://najwazebian.com/podcasts The Only Constant by Najwa Zebian - https://najwazebian.com/the-only-constant Welcome Home by Najwa Zebian - https://najwazebian.com/welcome-home Hijab - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijab Mind Platter by Najwa Zebian - https://najwazebian.com/mind-platter Guest’s Links: Najwa’s Website - https://najwazebian.com/ Najwa’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/najwazebian Najwa’s Tik Tok - https://www.tiktok.com/@najwazebian Najwa’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/najwazebian1 Najwa’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/najwazebian Najwa’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/najwazebian Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Making a change in our lives can feel like a big, all encompassing thing; and sometimes we avoid change because of that very notion. But here’s some good news: making meaningful change in our lives actually starts with one small choice at a time, and it doesn’t have to be overwhelming or hard. This week, we’ve got the inside scoop on how to form habits that you actually want to stick with and someone who is going to let us in on the simple secrets to real and lasting change. James Clear is the bestselling author of “Atomic Habits.” His approach to building sustainable habits has resonated with millions, helping people make positive changes and reach their full potential.  In this conversation, James shares personal stories and scientific principles to empower journeys of growth and transformation. Jen even shares her personal experience of choosing one small habit to do each day in the wake of her seismic divorce and how that choice radically affected the trajectory of her recovery.  Jen and James explore:  How to embrace a 1% improvement mindset - small, incremental changes compound over time and lead to meaningful results. The willingness to try different approaches and habits until you find what works for you Why we’ll be set up for success in the long run by having a toolbox of different strategies instead of adhering to specific “must-have” habits The importance of focusing on your identity and becoming the type of person you want to be, rather than just setting goals. No matter where you are in life —you have it within you to make meaningful and practical changes in your life. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “There was a time in my life when I was forced to start small. So I was trying to find little wins; just something I could look at and be like 'Today was a good day.' I think that mindset ended up really helping me in later life." - James Clear "The whole world is going to emphasize your position and where you are. What I'm trying to emphasize is, "Are you getting 1% better? 1% worse? Is the arrow pointing up to the right, even if it's just a little bit? Or have you flatlined?" Because if you're on a good trajectory, all you need is time. All you need is patience. Time will magnify whatever you feed it." - James Clear “There is no one way to build better habits. There are many ways. My job is not to tell you how to do it. My job is to lay all the tools out on the table, rather than trying to tell you this is the way to build habits.” - James Clear “It's very easy, once you're listening to a conversation about habits or thinking about your own habits, to bite off more than you can chew, or start getting pulled in ten directions and be like; 'I'm going to change all ten of these things.' I think one good thing to remind yourself of is this energy will naturally extend into other areas of your life. So maybe take just one of those ten things and try to really master that.” - James Clear "There's this common advice that if something doesn't work, you should try, try, try again and I think the better advice is if something doesn't work, you should try, try, try differently." - James Clear Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Atomic Habits by James Clear: https://jamesclear.com/atomic-habits James Clear’s 3-2-1 Newsletter - https://jamesclear.com/3-2-1 Guest’s Links: James Clear’s Website - https://jamesclear.com/ James Clear’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jamesclear/ James Clear’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/JamesClear James Clear’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/jamesclear/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Continuing in our series of Embracing Change, Jen talks with an elite athlete who found their life caving in, leaving themselves with no other choice than to flow with the transitions. In this candid conversation, Jen and Olympic figure skater Gracie Gold delve into Gracie's battles with mental health, disordered eating, and the intense pressures of elite athletics. Gracie’s story speaks to immense strength - navigating the insidious grip of an eating disorder that spanned longer than many of her close relationships. Gracie recounts how the illusion of control through restrictive eating eventually triggered a "nuclear meltdown," forcing her to confront the compounding traumas. Jen and Gracie explore: The toxic underbelly of perfectionism glorified in figure skating and its ties to disordered eating Society's tendency to stigmatize mental illness that doesn't fit a textbook definition The arduous, perpetual work of managing an eating disorder Reclaiming authenticity after realizing her projected "ice princess" persona was unsustainable With refreshing candor, Gracie shares how curiosity and embracing life's small joys enabled her to begin reconstructing an integrated identity beyond skating's rigid expectations. Her courage to openly discuss such profound struggles is a beacon of hope for anyone confronting their inner critic. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: "In most industries, to be a woman in this world, typically and historically, you were rewarded if you were smaller." - Gracie Gold "Instead of feeling anxious that I don't have a plan and I don't have an exact to-do list with everything on it checked off — instead of finding anxiety in that, I try to find freedom." - Gracie Gold "[I'm] continuing to put one foot in front of the other and being okay with not knowing where I'm going and that the universe will bring me where I'm meant to go." - Gracie Gold “I just thought I could push through [depression]--very type A. I just thought 'Oh I can push through, if I just work harder, or be better, then it'll go away.' Which it didn't.” - Gracie Gold Resources Mentioned in This Episode: 2014 U.S. Olympic Figure Skating Team (Gracie’s team won a bronze medal) - https://olympics.com/en/olympic-games/sochi-2014/athletes Outofshapeworthlessloser: A Memoir of Figure Skating, F*cking Up, and Figuring It Out - https://www.amazon.com/Outofshapeworthlessloser-Memoir-Figure-Skating-Figuring-ebook/dp/B0C4J8MLF6 Top Ten Female Figure Skaters of All Time - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest_scores_in_figure_skating Guest’s Links: Gracie’s Website - https://graciegold.figureskatersonline.com/ Gracie’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/GracieGold Gracie’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/GraceEGold Gracie’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/graciegold95 Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Our new series of Embracing Change is a deep examination of all the different ways change shows up in our lives and all the ways we can respond to it. As Jen says in this interview, our guest today went through a “chosen change.” Hers was a transformation that felt inevitable after all the small, incremental posture changes made her ready for the leap to follow — a leap toward more sanity, more love, and more joy.  Joy Sullivan is a poet and community builder. Her new book “Instructions for Traveling West” is “for anyone flinging themselves into fresh starts.” She received a Masters in poetry from Miami University and has served as the poet-in-residence for the Wexner Center for the Arts. She joins the podcast today sharing her story of walking into the unknown. Through her unique viewpoint as a poet, she unlocks potent ways for us to trust our intuition and stay curious about what is scaring us. Jen and Joy touch on: The importance of embracing loneliness and stillness as opportunities for self-discovery and hearing one's true inner voice and callings. stories from Joy’s life that served as lessons for her to love herself more deeply Reclaiming selfhood by rupturing constrictive cultural and religious narratives, especially around womanhood and female identity For anyone feeling the tug to upend the inertia of their life and lean into evolution, this conversation is an inspiring guide for following one's deepest callings into new horizons. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: "I started driving west and I spent six weeks hiking in Sedona, being in the beautiful desert. During that time, I really had this sense of awakening and the sense of rupturing. It was that question like, ‘Am I doing work that matters?’ And I was so awake to my life again in that intense way that loneliness just pricks us alive. And I really began to grapple. I just looked at every aspect of my life and said, ‘Could there be more?’" - Joy Sullivan “I don't think it matters where you go, but to be able to give yourself an opportunity to really reinvent, that's the good stuff.” - Joy Sullivan "I didn't have the life that I sort of felt like I always should have had based on what a woman was supposed to get — a husband, kids, the stability of the white picket fence, etc. And what's been interesting is when I sort of recreated or fractured some of those stories culturally and religiously that I had been given, my life just expanded into possibility because it had never occurred to me that a woman could be really, really happy if she didn't choose those things." - Joy Sullivan “Poetry is the only place that can hold the unsayable. It's the only space we have that holds that which cannot be spoken in any other art form. All the ache, all the beauty, all the impossibility of being alive; that's what poems are for.” - Joy Sullivan Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Sustenance (A Community of Poets and Writers founded by Joy Sullivan) - https://joysullivanpoet.com/sustenance Necessary Salt (Joy Sullivan’s Substack Blog) - https://joysullivan.substack.com/ Instructions For Traveling West by Joy Sullivan (A book of poems coming April 9, 2024) - https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/734503/instructions-for-traveling-west-by-joy-sullivan/ Guest’s Links: Joy’s Website - https://joysullivanpoet.com/ Joy’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/Joy_E_Sullivan Joy’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/joysullivanpoet/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re finishing up our For the Love of Wonderful You series intentionally with a deep breath and a gentle word of encouragement. In this episode, even though we are talking about trauma, critical inner voices, and the arduous process of grief, Jen and her guest unwind these topics in the most gentle and loving way.  Kobe Campbell is an award-winning therapist who specializes in helping people process grief and trauma in a way that unearths true empowerment. Hidden beneath the clamor of everyday life, the voices of our inner critic lie in wait to echo our grief. These voices, though silent to others, can roar deafeningly within us — shaping our perceptions, beliefs, and actions. Kobe’s suggestions of journal “prompts” help guide our own trauma excavation process, and her gentle but challenging questions further that sometimes painful work, while steering us toward self compassion.  Jen and Kobe touch on:  The understanding that grief can take a lot of time to process; which can ultimately lead to wisdom and true empowerment A working definition of trauma and that trauma is highly personal and contextual How we can feel brave enough to examine the inner critical voice and discern where it’s coming from Acknowledging the cultural pressure to live at an unsustainable pace that doesn’t allow space or time to heal If you ever needed permission to grieve or drop the unrelenting pace of your life, then this is the invitation. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I love to tell people that trauma is not what happened to you. It's about how it affected you. And those effects can live in our present, even if the moment is in the past. I help people parse through that in creative ways with poems, quick words, and thoughts from my kitchen right after I'm done with the session.” - Kobe Campbell “I think that many of us have not been given the space to grieve long enough to know what genuine and internal empowerment feels like, and we keep trying to give ourselves that empowerment from the outside. We keep trying to grasp motivation from somewhere.” - Kobe Campbell "Trauma can be acute, meaning it can be a moment, or trauma can be chronic, meaning it could be several moments over time. And I like to give the example that trauma can be a boulder or it could be pebbles. But the reality is–it doesn't matter. There is no big 'T' trauma and little 't' trauma because, at the end of the day, all those pebbles amass to the size of a boulder anyway. It's just being accumulated over time." - Kobe Campbell "The person who holds the wound holds the wisdom. If we lock away that version of us that is deeply wounded and wants to cry for three months, then we're also locking away the wisdom of those situations that we need for our present." - Kobe Campbell "My humanity is good. God created it good. And if I believed that I was good for just existing as I am, how would I treat myself?" - Kobe Campbell Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Why Am I Like This? How to Break Cycles, Heal From Trauma, and Restore Your Faith by Kobe Campbell Journal Prompt on Kobe’s Instagram Brain Neuro Coupling I Feel Like Woman by Shania Twain on Spotify Minaa B. Website (Therapist and Colleague of Kobe’s) I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings by Maya Angelou Michell C. Clark Instagram Guest’s Links: Kobe’s Website Kobe’s Facebook Kobe’s Twitter Kobe’s Instagram Kobe’s TikTok Kobe’s YouTube Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube  The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’ve got someone on the show this week who makes it her business to show us exactly how wonderful we as women are–just as we are! She is the queen of keeping it real, a hilariously honest actress, standup comedian, and the Instagram star who has become our go-to for a belly laugh when the world's expectations just seem a tad too polished–it’s Celeste Barber! If you haven’t seen Celeste on her Instagram account, get on over there and join the nearly 10 million people who are clamoring for her content each week (and if you have any doubt, she won the “Funniest Lady on Instagram Award” back in 2017). She’s also a successful standup comedian who sold out three seasons of her “Challenge Accepted” Tour in the US, and has a Netflix Special (“Fine, Thanks”) and a dramatic comedy series that we just love called “Wellmania.”   Jen and Celeste get into it about:  The riotous juggle Celeste manages by shining a light on the quirks of the beauty industry, all while paving her own extraordinary path.  Celeste opens up about the nuanced battles of being valued for her sharp mind and quicker wit in a scene often unforgiving to women. Celeste and Jen share about the beautiful chaos of balancing a career with being a superhero mom (or at least trying to be).  This episode is more than just laughs (though, swear, you'll have plenty); it's a pat on the back for every one of us out here, doing the thing, being utterly magnificent in our complexity. Here’s to celebrating the splendid and wonderful you! * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I would like to live one day without anxiety. I would also like to be a Janet Jackson backup dancer. That's all I ask for.” - Celeste Barber “I take my hat off to women in general, just always and forever. "The mothers who work in the day and then go home and be excellent mothers at night, and they go back to work in the day and they come home and they're excellent mothers. How do they do that?” - Celeste Barber “With women, [being] funny or smart or boundary-pushing is fine as an idea, but [we're asked] 'can you be safe and pretty because that's just easier for us.' And so shifting that lens, the thing is, we're multifaceted. There are so many different types of things to celebrate within women." - Celeste Barber Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Celeste Barber: Challenge Accepted (Celeste’s 2019 Comedy Special) Celeste Barber: Fine, Thanks (Celeste’s 2023 Comedy Special) All Saints (Medical Drama that got Celeste her start) Wellmania (2023 Netflix Series Starring Celeste) Celeste Barber: Backup Dancer Tour Celeste Barber and Tom Ford Collab Celeste will be in Dallas June 10th at the Majestic Theatre, in Austin June 13th at the Paramount Theatre, and in Houston June 14th at 713 Music Hall Guest’s Links: Celeste’s Website Celeste’s Instagram Celeste’s Facebook Celeste’s Twitter Celeste’s YouTube Channel Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube  The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.   Visit Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s the start of a new series, For The Love of Wonderful You! Spring is arriving and as the winter slumber fades away, many of us are likely plunging into a frantic pace of commitments and To Do lists. But we want to take a minute (or approximately 45-mins to an hour) to create a moment where we can punch the brakes a little. Let’s tell that inner taskmaster to relax; and instead, reflect on finding value in who we are in this moment, and how worthy we are just as we are.  Jen’s amazing conversation partner today is Amanda Doyle. Amanda is many amazing things but you may know her first and foremost as “Sister” on the We Can Do Hard Things Podcast with Glennon Doyle and Abby Wambach. She’s also part of the leadership team at Together Rising, the amazing non-profit that has raised over $50 million dollars and given it away to people all over the world who need it most. Amanda has been a longtime social justice advocate and she uses that knowledge to break down deep truths and complex social issues in all her conversations. Today, she reminds us that spending the energy to stay vulnerable in our relationships will always pay out. In this episode Jen and Amanda talk about: The struggle to be vulnerable and truly open up versus managing perceptions and staying in control in relationships How Amanda chose sobriety and the surprising clarity that emerged in her marriage, especially during the pandemic Jen’s journey to understanding herself and her avoidant tendencies in the aftermath of her divorce The profound impact of the "love letter" exercise guided by Liz Gilbert, where “Love's voice” urged Amanda to stop keeping score in life * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “A relationship has to have some equilibrium. The farther you go this way, the more the other person has to go the other way. What I have learned is that no one wants to be in those places.” - Amanda Doyle "What I have recently realized is that many people who either view themselves or are viewed in their relationships as control freaks; actually what they want the most is to not be in control of everything. They feel like they have to be in control of everything, because that is the way that they show their love is by taking care of things. But what they want more than anything else is for someone to step up and be like, 'I got this, I got you. You don't have to be in control of this.'" - Amanda Doyle “You are so fixated on the score of this life, but there is no score except the one in your head. You are exhausting yourself to death, trying to keep a score and figure out where you've won, and figure out where other people have disappointed you and slighted you and not met your expectations. But the score is fiction. We're not being scored." - Amanda Doyle “We think when we're giving up alcohol, we're giving up fun. And that's with good reason. It's like fully marketed--growing up, it's part of the narrative; anything that is fun also includes alcohol. But then I had the enormous blessing of being so close to Abby and Glennon's life and seeing that they were the most fun people with the most delightful, satisfying lives of anyone else I know. And none of that included alcohol." - Amanda Doyle Resources Mentioned in This Episode: We Can Do Hard Things with Glennon Doyle For the Love Podcast Episode ft. Glennon Doyle For the Love Podcast Episode ft. Abby Wambach For the Love Podcast Enneagram Threes Episode ft. Lisa Whelchel Untamed by Glennon Doyle We Can Do Hard Thing Episode ft. Liz Gilbert Letters From Love with Liz Gilbert (Substack) For the Love Podcast Episode ft. Sarah Bessey Guest’s Links: Together Rising Website Amanda’s Twitter Together Rising Facebook Together Rising Instagram Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube  The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re wrapping up our series featuring Black Trailblazers, and we couldn’t be more thrilled to have another guest who has broken barriers and basically created their own space as part of the national conversation, becoming the first black woman to anchor a cable primetime show. You may know her from her seat as a political analyst on MSNBC, or as the host of her own show, The ReidOut. It’s the amazing Joy Reid, everyone! Joy is a Harvard grad with a degree in visual and environmental studies and a concentration in documentary film. She also worked on the Florida branch of the Obama campaign. Her political writing prowess has landed her columns and articles everywhere; The New York Times, The New Republic, The Guardian, The Daily Beast, and The New Yorker, to name a few. PLUS she has a new book coming out that she gives us a special peek into; it’s the important and moving story of slain Civil rights pioneer Medgar Evers and his wife Myrlie, also an activist. It's not every day we get to talk to someone who brings the goods about so many profound topics—civil rights, the fight for reproductive rights, immigration issues, the sacrifice for equality—and she and Jen shy away from none of them here. Joy’s passion for calling out injustice and her unwavering belief that we all hold the keys to preserving our rights and our freedoms gives us a reason to believe that we all can be trailblazers toward sparking change in our world. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I'm very conscious of the fact that I'm the person that looks like the young black girls who come up to me, and it makes me feel very proud because I can represent. You really can only be what you can see.” - Joy Reid “The goal is when you get in the door, just pop it open. Get it open and let more people in. Diversity and equity and inclusion, they’ve become bad words. But they actually just mean we’re making America more what it was meant to be.” - Joy Reid “The immigrants who people are fighting hardest against are the people who are coming from Guatemala and El Salvador. They're also coming from China and Ukraine at this point. All they want to do is work. They are probably the hardest working people in America.” - Joy Reid “We keep trying to replace cheap labor. America could change that by paying people living wages. But Americans don't want to do that. We love the cheap labor because we love the cheap chicken sandwiches.” - Joy Reid “We have to save ourselves not just by voting for president, but by choosing the Senate in a different way, by choosing a different House of Representatives, by choosing different state legislatures, different governors. You need to start choosing not based on the party you're loyal to and the jersey you put on at age 18 when you became a Republican or a Democrat. You need to choose based on who's going to let you be free.” - Joy Reid Joy’s Links: The ReidOut - Joy’s show on MSNBC Joy Reid - Instagram Joy Reid - Facebook Joy Reid - X (Twitter) Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Man Who Sold America Trump And The Unraveling of The American Story - book by Joy Reid Medgar and Myrlie: Medgar Evers and the Love Story That Wakened America - book by Joy Reid T.R.M. Howard - Black Physician Who Created a System of Affordable Health Care Legislation in Georgia Regarding a Six Week Abortion Ban Meet the Press News Show Gwen Ifill - American Journalist Medgar & Myrlie Evers - Civil Rights Pioneers Queen & Slim - Film Manning Marable - Professor African American Studies/Columbia University Emmitt Till’s Photo in Jet Magazine Sharon McMahon Instagram Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this week’s episode in our Black Trailblazer’s series, Jen may have leveraged her connections, and we couldn’t be more thrilled that she did. We’re excited to have a wonderful sit down with the amazing Jerrie Merritt (who just happens to be Jen’s boyfriend Tyler’s mother–and a Black trailblazer in every sense of the word). In addition to being Tyler’s mom, Jerrie’s currently the Senior VP of Community Development at the Bank of Nevada in Las Vegas. Her banking career spans 40 plus years, where her job now is discerning funding for community development projects in the city of Las Vegas (as she puts it; “I’m the only person at the bank who’s actually giving money away!”). She’s been the board president of the Rape Crisis Center, The Urban Financial Services Coalition, and the Chamber of Commerce in Las Vegas. She even recently got to work with the NFL when the Super Bowl took place in Las Vegas to lead the dispersion of funds they made available to 14 worthy organizations, which she chose. In 2021, Jerrie received an actual Trailblazer Award, presented by the National Coalition of 100 Black Women from the Las Vegas Chapter. Jerrie takes us back to where it all began; in a tiny town called Eutaw, Alabama, where Jerrie didn’t see much modeled to her in the way of dreaming of who she could be, but through generosity of spirit and a willingness to take a chance, she started blazing her trail. It wasn’t without its challenges, coming up during a time where women–especially black women–were often shunned in business and leadership settings. Despite this, Jerrie paved a way, and in turn is paving a way for those coming up behind her. Her infectious courage, intertwined with a humility that hits you right in the feels—will incite a fire with all of us to leave our own indelible mark on this wild, beautiful world. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Always pursue your dreams because there is nothing that you as a woman, and especially as a black woman, cannot accomplish if you work at it.” - Jerrie Merritt “I'm blessed. I can't think of one thing that I have done in my career to get me here today that I had no control over. I always worked at trying to make sure that I was giving back [to the community] and to make sure that I made a difference, no matter what it was. From being a teller to being a regional president of a bank, I always wanted to do my best.” - Jerrie Merritt “My mom was a teenager when I was born. So I was raised between my mother's mother and my father's mother. Those two women gave me a foundation that made me who I am today.” “Now that I look back, I think I was so driven. I think that I didn’t know anything better than to expect that I deserved; what I saw everyone else have. I think if I took a moment and thought about it. I probably would not be here today. I think back to my mother and my grandmothers who always talked about, 'You can do better, you can do better.' That's what I always heard so I always knew that I could do better.” - Jerrie Merritt “I went into community development from actually being a regional president. I was only [at the company] six months before I realized that this was something I enjoyed. That was because I was the only person in the bank that was giving away money.” - Jerrie Merritt “When I enjoy what I do as much as I do, and at the same time I'm giving back in areas that I probably would give back to even if I didn't get paid to do it--that's how I got here.” - Jerrie Merritt Resources Mentioned in This Episode: National Coalition of 100 Black Women, Vegas Chapter I Always Wanted to Be Somebody by Altea Gibson NFL Grant Programs Guest’s Links: Jerrie’s Website Jerrie’s Facebook Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube  The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Women's sports are having a major moment right now, with basketball superstars like A'ja Wilson leading the charge. Considered one of the best WNBA players to ever grace the court, A'ja is using her towering influence to encourage not only young black girls, but all women who have felt the need to change who they are to fit in. A’ja fought to be herself every step of the way in her journey of becoming a G.O.A.T. in the WNBA.  In this uplifting conversation, A'ja Wilson opens up about the challenges she faced as a young black woman trying to be her authentic self. From an anecdote about confronting racism in 4th grade to the influential women who instilled self-love during her journey to the top, A'ja shares her playbook for empowerment with raw honesty. She discusses the motivation behind writing her new book "Dear Black Girls" and the importance of defining yourself instead of letting others do it for you. If you've ever felt the need to shrink yourself to fit in or been made to feel "other," A'ja's wisdom will inspire you to embrace all that makes you beautifully unique. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I think the biggest thing that is surprising to me is really how much work we put in. Other people see the end results as basic glory. They see that and they're like, 'Oh my God, they make it look flawless and just easy. But the most surprising thing is how many times we cry together, how many times we pray together, how many times we just come into the gym. It's like we don't have it, but we still find a way to dig it out.” - A’ja Wilson “I think the biggest thing I always like to say is (I even had it on my shoes); if you can see her you could be her.” - A’ja Wilson “The self-accountability that [my role models] instilled in me allows me to (instill) that into someone else. I can be that leader for my teammates and hold them accountable because I want you all to do the same for me” - A’ja Wilson “Young girls all the time are like, ‘What do I need to do to do this?’ I'm like, ‘Girl, just keep doing what you're doing. That's your path. I don't want you to think your path is going to look like mine.’ I think once you get past that, that's when that self-worth comes in. That's when you're like, ‘Okay, I'm good at where I am.’” - A’ja Wilson Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Dear Black Girls: How to Be True to You Dawn Staley The Players’ Tribune Guest’s Links: A’ja’s Website A’ja’s Facebook A’ja’s Twitter A’ja’s Instagram Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube  The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As we close out our For the Love of Facing Your Fears series, we're diving headfirst into a topic that we will all face at one point in our lives (hopefully later than sooner); our very own expiration dates. It’s one of humanity’s most universal yet daunting fears, and we’ve got a compassionate and experienced guide to walk us through the kinds of things we might wonder about, and the beautiful unexpected moments that can accompany our final days. Hadley Vlahos is a hospice nurse whose life experiences and work have provided her with profound insights into the final chapter of our lives. Hadley opens up about her personal journey through struggles and grief, her entry into nursing as a calling, and her perspectives on the beauty that can be found even in our final moments. Her book, "The In-Between: Unforgettable Encounters During Life's Final Moments," encapsulates powerful stories from the bedside of the dying, some of which she shares with us, including the tranquility of the in-between and the serendipitous moments bringing peace to those passing. With over 1.4 million followers captivated by her TikTok narratives, Hadley’s perspective takes the edge off the many worries we may have about the end-of-life process. Join us for a truly poignant exchange that affirms life's beauty—and its beautiful conclusion. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Most people think [death] is very sudden. There was a recent study that over 80% of what we're shown on TV is very violent and sudden. In reality, the way I compare it is to birth; just like how our bodies know how to give birth and they know how to grow a baby, the majority of time with death, our bodies do know how to die.” - Hadley Vlahos “For someone to say, ‘You know what, I'm going to I'm going to go home and I'm going to be with my family and I would like to remain comfortable.’ I think that there's a lot of power in that, and I don't see it as giving up at all. I see it as taking your fate into your own hands.” - Hadley Vlahos “I wish more people would just talk to each other about the end. Surprisingly, even though someone's in hospice, I still see a lot of hesitancy to talk about the end. When they can do that, I find that patients feel a lot more peace around the end and what is coming.” - Hadley Vlahos “What am I doing today that I would be excited to be telling my hospice nurse about one day? And that has given me an incredible drive and passion for life that I just totally didn't expect.” - Hadley Vlahos Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The In-Between: Unforgettable encounters during life’s final moments by Hadley Vlahos Five Wishes Guest’s Links: Hadley’s Website Hadley’s Instagram Hadley’s Facebook Hadley’s Twitter Hadley’s TikTok Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As we continue our series on facing our fears, we introduce a fear that many of us may not talk about comfortably, but in reality, we are all facing; the fact that we are aging. In case this is something that moves you into a state of deep denial, or perhaps you are employing a world of efforts (including for-profit products and practices) to stave off the inevitable progression, or even if you are just taking it all in stride, we all are subject to what the world at large has to say about it and—mostly–it’s not positive. A pervasive ageist attitude infiltrates the media we consume, our own friend groups, and even what we tell ourselves consciously and subconsciously about aging. We come by it naturally, though–with deeply ingrained stereotypes and discriminatory practices that extend everywhere from the workplace to the bedroom. Our guest this week shares how she went from being an apprehensive boomer to becoming a pro-aging radical as she dismantles myths and debunks the portrayal of older people as societal burdens; with years of research under her belt, she dreams of an aging-friendly world. Ashton Applewhite is the author of “This Chair Rocks–A Manifesto Against Ageism,” and she makes it her life’s work to expose ageist behavior, and educate us all as to how we can stop giving aging a bad rap. Jen and Ashton take an eye-opening look at ageism as a form of bias as unacceptable as any other, and give us actionable steps to ignite “age pride,” keeping in mind that aging is an integral part of our life journey, not a condition to be cured or concealed. If you’re fretfully staring down the next decade of life with fear and denial, consider the possibility that being stressed about aging actually can cause the very things we fear about aging. Ashton sums it up like this; “If you learn about aging, you will be less afraid. That knowledge and information is going to confer all kinds of protection about aging as well as you possibly can.” * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: "Almost everything I thought I knew about what it was going to be like to be significantly older was way off base or flat out wrong, or not nuanced enough.There are plenty of legitimate reasons to worry about the years ahead, but our fears are so much out of proportion to reality. We never hear the other side of the story. I mean, how come no one actually wants to go back to their youth?" - Ashton Applewhite “When we blame everything on age, then that in itself becomes a hugely profitable industry; all the supplements, all this anti-aging, eternal life stuff--it does not work, and it's not good for you physically or psychologically.” - Ashton Applewhite “If younger women were friends with older women, they would see how coming into our own is a source of enormous power and satisfaction. If more of us were friends with younger women, we wouldn't have this envy.” - Ashton Applewhite “All prejudice operates to pit people against each other. And if we're squabbling, we're not going to challenge these larger forces.” - Ashton Applewhite “Aging is not something sad that old people do. Aging is something we embark on the day we are born and if you get the memo, you can avoid stepping on this hamster wheel of fear and denial.” - Ashton Applewhite Resources Mentioned in This Episode: This Chair Rocks by Ashton Applewhite Let’s End Ageism - Ashton’s TED Talk Old School Anti-Ageism Clearing House Yo, Is This Ageist - Ashton’s Blog Guest’s Links: Ashton’s Website Ashton’s Facebook Ashton’s Twitter Ashton’s Instagram Ashton’s Blog Ashton’s LinkedIn Connect with Jen! Jen’s website Jen’s Instagram Jen’s Twitter Jen’s Facebook Jen’s YouTube The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We all have things that scare us. And it’s not because we’re doing life wrong; fear, in and of itself, is a normal emotion. So then what do we do with it? That's really what this series, For the Love of Facing Your Fears, is all about. Today’s guest will be walking us through some strategies on facing our fears in a healthy way by showing us what habits mentally strong people employ in their lives. Amy Morin is a renowned psychotherapist, a bestselling author and she's devoted her whole career to the exploration of what it means to be mentally strong. Her TEDx talk, “The Secret of Becoming Mentally Strong” has been lauded as one of the most impactful TEDx videos to date. Amy’s personal journey of loss juxtaposes with Jen’s recent experience of starting over again after 26 years of marriage–and they both discuss how fear played into their lives during these periods of grief and loss. Amy gives actionable, easy to employ behaviors that can set us on the course toward conquering our fears–no matter how debilitating.  * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “It's so easy to get caught up in that idea of ‘I don't want my life to be different because I don't want to make it any worse and if it's going to be different, it's going to be hard to adapt to.’” - Amy Morin “Our fear meters in life are often super faulty. We think if something feels scary, we shouldn't do it and then we don't. I lived a lot of my life like that. Well, that's the perfect recipe for depression, because you live a really safe life and you don't go out there and figure out how exciting things can be and how much you're capable of doing.” - Amy Morin “When our fear runs really high, our intelligence runs really low. You want to balance that and take notice of how scared you feel right now? Fear will cause you to overestimate the likelihood that everything's going to go wrong. It will cause you to underestimate your own capabilities so you’ve got to raise your logic and balance out that fear a little bit.” - Amy Morin “Taking back your power is all about just stepping back and realizing these are my choices. This is my day, my life. How do I want to spend it? Do I need to set a boundary? Do I need to at least change my language so that I'm not saying other people are forcing me to do something, as opposed to just recognizing I don't want to do this, but I'm going to do it anyway?” - Amy Morin “Mentally strong people don't feel the world owes them anything.” - Amy Morin Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Secret of Becoming Mentally Strong - Amy Morin’s TEDx Talk 13 Things Mentally Strong People Don’t Do by Amy Morin (Article) 13 Things Mentally Strong People Don’t Do (Book) Guest’s Links: Amy’s Website Amy’s Facebook Amy’s Twitter Amy’s Instagram Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Isn’t it fun to be part of the in-crowd? Where you can connect with people who are of like minds and spirits, where everyone seems to be headed in the same direction? But what if you start having nagging questions as an insider that don’t seem to get resolved, and even worse, are met with disdain or fear from other members of your group? This can be a scary place for so many of us. For the purposes of our conversation today–we’re talking about when it happens in religious spaces. For years, singer/songwriter Derek Webb was very much on the “inside” of what was happening in Christendom as a top selling, award winning Christian artist, songwriter and worship leader. It took a few disruptions to his own life that sent him down the road to evaluating his faith, his beliefs and how he wanted to move forward with the new information he’d gained. Now, decidedly an “outsider” who tries to still take up space in the Christian zeitgeist to potentially model a different way of living, Derek has gone on to record solo albums and also work with artists that aren’t typical to Christian music–like drag queen Flamy Grant—with whom, incidentally, he attended the Gospel Music Dove Awards in 2023 (and who also had a number one Christian song pop up on the charts), with the intention of making people who are Christian and LGBTQ+IA feel less alone. In this episode, Jen and Derek compare their journeys as “peaceful disruptors,” what it cost them and what they gained in the process * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “So now here I am, 20 years [after going solo] and I'm spoiled into thinking that I can write songs about things no one else is writing songs about, and that's kind of my thing now.” - Derek Webb “I'd been so obsessed on thinking about, obsessed on my language about God, that I forgot to apply it to the way I behave in the world, the way I treat other people, which is ethics. And I realized, 'Oh no, how did I miss that?' As I stand before you as the ringing symbol, the clanging gong when I've got all the right words and none of the love, none of the fruit.” - Derek Webb “I had to rebuild at almost 40, I had to rebuild a whole life and reckon with the fallout, at least my part of the responsibility of some real hurt. I caused a lot of people who I love to hurt, the people I love more than anybody in the world. And it humbled me.” - Derek Webb “Flamy Grant and Semler were not the first two queer artists to have number-one albums and singles on the Christian music charts. It has happened so many times over the years, but by people who are closeted and people who live in tremendous fear in that space because they know they will be immediately rejected, excluded, marginalized, out.” - Derek Webb Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Caedmon’s Call  Aaron Tate’s Website  Second Baptist Church  She Must and Shall Go Free - Album by Derek Webb Essential Records Third Day  Jars Of Clay  Plumb  The Prayer of Jabez  Wedding Dress by Derek Webb  Grace Point Church  The Jesus Hypothesis  Boys Will Be Girls Music Video Grace Semler Baldridge Flamy Grant Instagram Drag Queen at Christian Music Awards Sparks Backlash (Newsweek Article) Guest’s Links: Derek’s Website - https://www.derekwebb.com/home Derek’s Facebook - http://facebook.com/derekwebb Derek’s Instagram - http://instagram.com/derekwebb Derek’s TikTok - http://tiktok.com/@derekwwebb Derek’s Twitter - http://twitter.com/derekwebb Derek’s YouTube - http://youtube.com/user/derekwebb Derek’s Patreon - http://patreon.com/derekwebb Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.  Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices