DiscoverThe Liturgists PodcastRob Bell and the Bible

Rob Bell and the Bible

Update: 2017-07-113
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Science Mike and Michael Gungor talk to Rob Bell about his latest book, What is the Bible.



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the the everybody here's a quick tour date announcement September fifteenth and sixteenth religious in Los Angeles California October six and seven in the Boston in Seattle those with religious events are doing this fall great time two days of beautiful times with one another my band is going on a tour we've got a few full band shows that would love to invite you to July twelve at the door in Dallas Texas July twenty eighth will be less the rocket out of Nashville Tennessee on August also got a bunch of acoustic tour dates those are smaller with the Sendai we sing some songs acoustic leave from the series and whatever else happens as well as to day and have some photos that I'm going to be in New Braunfels Texas from saying that correctly July thirty three beats Antonio July sixteen in New Cumberland Pennsylvania like thirty of Philadelphia August first Charlottesville Argus second carry North Carolina August third Denver Colorado August seven Colorado Springs August ninth Omaha Nebraska August eleven thirty and met Maura Illinois August twelve Decatur of his fourteenth Kokomo trip City Ohio August seventeen and they were doing another full day and show at Hope College in Holland Michigan September twenty seconds also science Mike is going to be doing some ask science Mike lives in the UK October eleven he's in London October thirteen season serving in an October seventeen and her twenty first double the rights that our live events please come on sis especially the gatherings those are the best you can get the hang of today's all sorts of shenanigans ensue for tickets and more details visit the litter just stop com slash events for the four to see me soon The The The after that because the dogs and eight was after you've been on the courses relevant they got all this you know love wins out the camera on the podcast goes the guests alike mad about Rob that you love science Michael it is those cuts would be atheist bloggers for the the the the the the we're speaking with author and speaker Rob Bell the release of his new book What does that by the the eye when I was big church in Michigan right down the street props to church in mission and I would go and sneak over to my soul was training and I didn't believe it all was doing and where to go over them like maybe Christianity can be something else to go to church in the center of the oven I got in trouble for some life for us time and yet deny that I met Mike Mike and I met was the rub here speaking tours for what we talked when we talk about God I am there and you brought me into the room there you have is like a group of people to vent your two day thing Mike had his big beach experience and crazy mystical experience at here today thing said Mike what does what's happening in the brain I the one Michael here gets up in front of a large group of people and sing songs and people like lift their hands to a mythical construct in the sky and get all worked up and friendships for immediately for the eye of all he the guy you have a fan I I uh so yeah we would lose the liturgy is for sure with the Nile a spot where we met through while we separate the men like him a free thinkers conference yet here's it is or maybe maybe Rhoda stepped in though I did like the rub Allie who even get to roar go imeem has to go OK you think this stuff is ridiculous I think of down calm down it's okay so thank you thank you for sure everybody my pleasure listening to this that they can rob him of the book contracts thank you Homer has been received for this astonishing for its lookbook ten and it's never this kind of love and if the Bible I just finished books or two and it's the it's the Bible my friend has a Tesla the trunk in the front in the back together day he gets an e mail in the morning that Tesla has fixed his brakes while he slept in the night through his home WiFi I That's two thousand seventeen Syria might be using chemical weapons the president is still campaigning I I am not a book about vital interviewing interviewers like this is the Bible why are you so interested this even though I have my own reasons but what I keep coming back to is that our culture is more moral trouble no bass them so it's that thing when someone tells you about such a such a normally the news cycle was two weeks then I got to be like twenty four hours but now you're with somebody when they're like you can hear the thing and you're like I guess I didn't and you feel left out like you're behind the diary that Buzz Feed posted it at nine am and it's two thirty seven pm crazy so the whole thing is speeding out YouTube views Instagram followers like pomp and I think that's all doubling back on itself because when you than read a rant that's five thousand years old and you realize that's my rant right now that's my question that's my confusion that's my joy when you engage with something that people have resonated with for thousands of years at second base know and you actually are desperate for these otherwise it's all this sign on the surface of things trouble It's blitz this week since this high and I think that's what's happening is the immediacy of this world that we are there's a new billboard on the street from my house Amazon has a new bill because of living things within an hour and I and it says From Zero to happy in one hour Oh oh actually I would argue capitalism is not a plateau democracy mix of capitalism is the technology is not a plateau it actually has an arc it takes you somewhere it's like taking us somewhere from zero to happy in one hour Amazon isn't even pretending that's not even like that's just saying we may crap and get it to you like it's I think it's actually this system a suicide machine but it's a system of those Matrix movies became cliches are cliches become cliches for reason because they were true why I write and this thing is actually killing the planet it's killing people it's killing joy in life and when you that people have been wary of systems and challenging these sorts of things here's your now swimming in the street level to me is a collection of a divinely inspired stories that might mean for Christ my relationship with the Bible is rather complicated I've never been able to read it with the right buttons it's complicated good but complicated complicated it's complicated it feels confusing and I end up feeling beat up but I'm trying to see it through new eyes to a Bible is a fascinating and beautiful collection of the peoples say this on top oh gawd I believe the Bible is full of truth but not necessarily full of fact but the broad scope of it is one of redemption and love I have more hurtful emotions towards the Bible that I do positive emotions the drink or a spiritual nourishment wrestle with Jesus the Gospels nobody wears me down like water on stone aged wrinkled mark be used I think the Bible tells us more of who and why then it does of how and what contemplated tear soaked the people of my Bible and the Bible is hot to be a way to stop the car it I don't like what it says about women I don't believe a lot it tells the center of it though is Jesus in His amazing so I'm curious you are sort of backstory with why the Bible stated interesting to hear him I know some of your young story but it seems that we all came from a world like the Bible matter because it was God speaking to humanity and that's the revelation that you need for truth and start asking questions and seeing things different ways and for a lot of people o five is not what I thought it was a new move on and you see like in ways you've moved on but in ways it's still incredibly important for you what about your story kept you interested well I tell him the book about my for sermons this guy came up afterwards is like you missed it I think I missed what think you missed the whole thing in the whole passage about Jesus but he says you realize Jesus was Jewish which was a Christian I was Jewish but still liked what he just goes into this thing about Jesus a Jewish Rabbi so he's having a last supper with His disciples that were the Passover Seder that would add four cups only raises the cup which the four cups of the race because he knew which the four cups that would help in story and when he says the poor will always be with you that's a reference you realize it's a reference and is actually that line where he says the room as you dream as is and what about triple taxation McVeigh is because I relate to he just starts going off like you're missing it and so this guy's name is Richard started drop twenty five he started dropping these articles often my office is photocopied articles by people I never heard of about the Bible that this was written by real people real places real times so lots people told fun stories and their general estimate in the Galilee at the time of Jesus is the people were taxed about ninety percent so people cannot afford to hold on to the family lands they literally don't have enough food which is the theme of five thousand that's why people are following this itinerant Mystic revolutionary Rabbi because they're hungry why are they hungry like no one ever I never heard somebody say why are they so hungry oh because of this thing that was happening with the temple in the Marines and the Romans so all this stuff just came to life and then that took me into who this Jesus tradition that I sort of grew up around like spirituality exists about six inches off the ground kind of passing through here the real action is somewhere else but when I dove into the Jesus world and spirituality was a dimension of the material and we can even opt to cut apart a thousand ways as I was about sweat soil Saxon serving and that part but it was it was an ass about this world and to cuddle on the healing of this world and a llama a la my love life in the age to come during mean it else it like it like a picture like sinking down into Oh this is and that the Bible was about politics and economics and how culture gets created and power and violence but the Bible is actually about the things that everybody's talking about now so I think that sort of for me than the Bible is no longer the first line of the Gospel of Mark is a for Roche asleep political claim some people do that like to hear conscription passersby like no we don't get into the political we just talk about the heart well then you probably should avoid reading this book because when Mark says this is the gospel that's a loaded military propaganda term of the Romans of Jesus Christ he is the Christ are you kidding me the Messiah that was oh my word it's so loaded and subversive and dangerous and that was making claims about everything I mean so when I begin to realize that this Jesus tradition was actually really big and really wide and a lot of the things that I was like why would I go with this when people overhear him talking about this oh that's present in this tradition so they just realizing that the Jesus tradition is so much bigger and wider from the opening pages of the Bible it's assumed that human beings have a proper relationship with the soil that's an assumption and it's assumed that if human beings were to not have a proper relationship with the soil then your culture your economics apart everything would fall apart so like the exile which is one of the major stories in the Bible these people Jerusalem was conquered these people are hauled away and in exile they're trying to make sense of why did our culture get completely destroyed and we get hauled away like this the prophet Jeremiah says Oh it's because you didn't let the land lie fallow one of the profits explain the total devastation of the nation says this happen to you because love it a kiss Leviticus as farmland for six years let it rest for a seven this is sustainable farming practices remain so ideas that in two thousand seventeen people consider very progressive sustainability proper relationship of the soil are actually not even aimed at some level they're so assumed in the Book of Love in a case which is seen as primitive and barbaric so I just kept noticing that people would want to reject their Christian heritage in favor of what appeared to be new and enlightened and progressive ideas that were actually fully present in their own tradition they just weren't aware of it is fascinating to me like I guess the normative American Protestant way of approaching the Bible Job wrote the Bible through assistance to us right who's us will right now Americans living in the twenty first century was one of the twentieth and that you would think that would cause the Bible to seem very relate able and very immediate but the funny thing is that lens if you really wrestle with the Bible's tax creates a distance and so when you're in that perspective and someone says No these are stories written by people assembled by people because someone argue what it means to be inspired by God God played a role or not to go where you are but somehow when you acknowledge that historical perspective that ability to relate to how we treat the soil brings the Bible closer not further away and I get so frustrated there's this coded language in the church about a high view or a low view of Scripture and I hear this historical perspective often characterized as a low view of Scripture but talking to you talking to P Dan's when I was struggling with what the Bible minute all how it related to God it related to God relate to faith it elevates my view of the stories it made them alive it made them re label it made them harder read I have to go grab another book and learn about this time in history to really unpack this I might have to ask someone about language but once you get there I have it I personally this is where physical Israel Anti bottle for a few years but I haven't found another collection of resources so relate able and applicable to so many situations and certainly not that our soul we got there honestly I have when people use the word inerrancy about a mile I have a higher view of the Bible I would not demean or degrade the Bible by using a word like inerrancy right and you are completely correct and also your opening line about a way of describing the Bible that God wrote that the number of assumptions in that understanding of the Bible and this is what's so important for people to understand the number of assumptions in that that are brand ideas more shaped by modern philosophy by how people actually read the Bible or even people I might swear to god I don't question its the Word of God well where did you get this phrase Word of God well the Bible says is the Word of God ok if that's your litmus test for a sacred book pretty much every sacred books as the Word of God so that's a little bit dodgy but what's more interesting is that Word of God was an actual Hebrew phrase and in the ancient Hebrew understanding words create new worlds like that person told you in middle school that you're good at something new you held onto it for years because they they filled your with what might be possible or somebody tells you just have to be the Slayer somebody tells words have this power for thousands of years people acknowledge that words have creative power so in Heber consciousness when the divine creates of course the divine would speak it so and one essential things about the Bible is it keeps insisting that all of creation is a word of God so it was a dual you believe is the Word of God what's funny is what the Word of God says that the whole thing is the Word of God and that the Word of God is a phrase that people use to try and give language to the sense of the unfolding expanding nature of the universe and the redeeming power that seems to continue to flow through people and time places some of these phrases that even the people use as like a litmus test or buzz word for what your view of the vital is those phrases came about much more powerful and evocative then there are even given their turned into like buzz words and just the balls are chopped off in um I think what the phrase Son of God Son of God was referred to the Caesars or Caesar Octavia was the Son of God and the way that he was the son of Gaza believed he had divine power flattening and destroying and crucified anybody who resisted so the phrase Son of God was a figure of speech used to describe a particular way of creating the world which is to destroy your enemies that's how we make peace and so Jesus as the Son of God was a political dangerous you're saying there's a better way to make the world not through coercive military violence but to sacrificial love and so Jesus the Son of God versus Caesar's time God who you believe the center of God who you believe is making a better world so when people do as I'm sure you've had the like would you believe Son of God as a litmus test of whether or not you're in a club you like you just took an incredibly powerful phrase that describes the whole way of being in the world related to a dominant question the first century you chopped off all of its richness literal sit thinking that's a higher form of truth and then you turn it into a buzz word that makes me dinner I will not the example that it is coming to my brain is say this piano I told you guys some story this actually Beethoven played on this the the the media how this is the piano in the I got a little goosebumps just to add to cart but then the way I hear you talking now it's almost like literally Bates at some point it's like oh you didn't like like it's made of bait oh it's all made of the same stuff or Beethoven played what is Beethoven what you know I mean it's like deconstructed I speak on this hole and it can still see it through that lens now while that's Beethoven's atoms are part of this somehow and the very essence that gave rise to Beethoven music business gives rise to this piano see I can see that the plate sitting there all like hot going from God wrote this here's this flaming book floating sky in this I do like Oh but it's people that wrote it oh but that's amazing you know is there not was there any sort of dip of O O when I started a resident of who you start with what it is and you just keep going to the center of what is and you get in my experience I got there oh now I see what we My inspiration I ended up in a much higher view of it but I got there honestly and that's the thing is if you go into there are four different resurrection accounts and they don't quite line up so you can see that as a sign of an trustworthiness and lots of peoples say See I told him a book written by people trying to cover something up or fabricate something or you can go into the heart of those little difference is you can think about four different authors writing for different audiences and you come out the other side and you say that does something to me and you actually find yourself playing a different game and you have a whole different set of questions and for a lot of people the humanity sounds like it's lowering it but it's raising it because if you go into the humanity you discover some call a spectral presence in every person who says why doesn't condemn slavery I would simply respond Why do you some theme within you believes that we should have slaves for most of human history up until about two hundred years ago everybody assumed that slavery was in the natural order of things and then about two hundred years ago roughly people decided that this was a horrific barbaric thing we should do it he should be outlawed forever so every person who condemns the Bible for it doesn't speak against slavery hold on you do so what is happening in human history that we've moved from slavery is OK to slavery is wrong what is that an evolution in light meant waking up and fix whatever you call that what's fueling that what's powering that your very condemnation of that affirms for me something's happening and we are just a random collection of cells and that's where things get really interesting now they tell them a play that story might be he has no built in nineteen something it looks like a ninety three I was sometimes the power of a story is a rock in the Holy Land they believe Abraham would have walked there may be demanding why not actually walked on this rock I mean sometimes you are in place and you just that's powerful not unlike a really esoteric fuzzy sense but this is the liberty bell meant something to people for hundreds of years this is I mean yes good anchor for your imagination to replace the historical place absolutely succumb to the the uh the the the will be you know if you like to litter just podcast but wish it came out more often I've got great news for you we have a second podcast called religious that comes up every two weeks quite consistently available to people who subscribe to our room unpatriotic for at least one and all are on my way if you'd like to go further in spiritual practice we have another year on the pantry let's you get weekly that are designed and people the work of literature is the have a page and together and dance in real physical space not us to continue just podcast would you get additional resources for practice for community by joining to learn more go to the litter just gone to podcasts or just click on the donate Now button in the upper right hand corner the the the the the different ways or in the the guessing eight twelve percent of the listeners right now that's a big idea of a big idea yeah but let's go ahead and assume we can all agree there are different ways to read the Bible even a sub you think there's only one correct way there's still lots of why the Bible is read in the context of the day of Jesus the way of reading the scriptures there wasn't a Bible but the different scriptures oral tradition and tradition involved reading reflecting debating discussing turning the downturn yeah right like all this this intense and then in that you see that in the New Testament still in the New Testament to me I think many scholars agree that you see a bit of a debate about what is this way What is the way things are the proud the solid player for the next guy does so and then we get to today and we've talked about that normative you today this morning at breakfast on the search I was walking back his beautiful early morning until it was oh so from Tallahassee even more beautiful and walking back and I like I like East L A people are very open and this woman walks up to may be made absolutely beaming big smile and she said the last oh wow what a beautiful of the revenue Michael now you live here I I mean does not happen to you this guy shows up this morning well that there was more like us or is not quite done yet she has these papers which I assume are are you know right for the house of intuition or something around us like maybe I'll get to go as and when I see this beautiful little booklet titled witchcraft neck romance or Wizards familiar spirits all sorry about the way I'm neither
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Rob Bell and the Bible

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