DiscoverTED Radio HourBeyond Tolerance

Beyond Tolerance

Update: 2017-07-2813


Most of us were raised to believe that tolerance is a good thing, but is it enough or just the bare minimum? This hour, TED speakers on how to move beyond tolerance to a place of deeper understanding. Guests include social scientist Arthur Brooks, diversity advocate Verna Myers, author Aspen Baker, and social entrepreneur and educator Aziz Abu Sarah. (Original broadcast date: April 22, 2016)

Following script is auto-generated by Speech to Text Technology:

support for this NPR podcast in the following message come from Alfa Romeo with the all new Julie a sport sedan born from Alfa Romeo is more than one hundred and five year racing heritage with Italian craftsmanship inside and out learn more at Alfa Romeo USA dot com table and we're going to be back next week with a brand new episode of The Ted Radio Hour but in the meantime check out this one from our archives called Beyond tolerance and it's moving way from just tolerating people to actually trying to understand who they are and you can hear from Ted speakers including Arthur Brooks from a Myers and Aspen Baker this is the Head Radio Hour each week groundbreaking Ted talked at the Ted Technology Entertainment Design Design at Stanford never delivered and it had conferences around the world gift of the human imagination we had to believe in impossible the true nature of reality beckons just beyond those talks those ideas adapted for radio the NPR guy rise and so Oh tolerance charity of the the uh we thought it was a good time to do a show the change about tolerance is calling for the analysis focuses pretty heavy stuff of course we don't have to tell you what's going on in US politics by the way just a question Did President Obama ever come to a jammer in the war anytime you turn on cable news clandestine terrorist organization is Kill left in tears you will ever live with the American American Lives matter has been masked ISIS militant gloat when the war only beginning to turn support as he presides over the executions of four for that matter what's been happening in countries where they're dealing with refugees and changing populations in ways that you would not exactly describe as tolerant we all for the Christian we have to show them that the people won't want the gate to get the point you know what I'm talking about right you probably don't need any convincing that the world seems like a pretty intolerant place today but how about this idea that the solution to all of this is not more tolerance tolerance in fact doesn't even come close to what we need yeah I know it's when you talk about a couple that's been together for forty years and they really hate each other yeah they've barely taller each other I don't know whether to divorce they barely taller each other well hey there practicing tall resin that is a great virtue yet no it's not a great virtue tall which is Arthur Brooks he runs a think tank called the American Enterprise Institute that just to be clear most people think of as right of center they do although we have a lot of people all over the place personally I'm a political independent anyway after Barack's gave a Ted talk all about tolerance and we talk about it like it's some kind of reasonable goal we talk about tolerance does have low standards basically it's not enough to tolerate people it's not even enough to help people we need to need people who are not like us are in only when we do that can we have a kind of a unity that we really crave easier said than done of course so Tanner show Beyond tolerance idea is not just for co existing really about respecting each other working together even thriving together and we're going to hit all of the third rails today race abortion politics and just for good measure Israel Palestine it's all here on this episode so let's start with politics and Arthur Brooks again serious on the Ted stage now I don't have to tell anybody in this room that we're in a crisis in America in many countries around the world with political polarization there's an article last year in the proceedings of the National Academy of Science and it was an article in twenty fourteen on political motive asymmetry what's that that's what psychologists call the phenomenon of assuming that your ideology is based in love but your opponent's ideology is based in hate common world conflict you expect to see this between Palestinians and Israelis for example what the authors of this article found was that in America today a majority of Republicans and Democrats suffer from political motive asymmetry a majority of people in our country today who are politically active believe that they're motivated by love but the other side is motivated by hate think about it think about it most people are walking around saying you know my ideology is based on basic benevolence and help people but the other guys are evil now to get me you can't progress as a society when you have this kind of asymmetry impossible irreconcilable differences right well ever come together wrong that is diversity in which lies our strength when we need each other in other words if we want to help people there's no other way while all so when you say that we have to tolerate people but that we disagree with but we have to need them howdy you will yourself to need people that you can go and you know wanting our part of that is a moral decision part of that is actually really really practical you gotta take things personally when you can understand the nature of meeting other people didn't need your sister in law yeah yeah I mean on a banished to another country never see her again she might very well disagree with your politics you know somebody in your family who feels this way your cousin your mother your spouse and once we start taking it personally about people who are not like us then will understand the nature of what it means to need other people that's one way to do it the second to keep in mind is that very practically we need people who are not like us you know in that the great period of American immigration between eighteen eighty and nineteen twenty that's the time when the sign on the base of statue of Liberty Give me your paw or actually meant something to come here build our country and my great grandparents and yours they came here for reason there was something they wanted to do there something they wanted to build this country actually needed the one guy since you and I were kids I guess that's changed I mean I get that part in the economy has changed and in jobs of change so what's the connection between that and intolerance is it that when people don't feel like they needed they become less tolerant well actually not see is more complicated than that for the last seven in ten years the working class in the United States has seen effectively zero income growth that means no progress and that means bitterness and that means I gotta look for culprits and that's when political opportunism comes and people who preach intolerance to populism can say either pull up the drawbridge kick them all out or raw for their heads rich people they got your stuff that's when we fall prey to that and that's where intolerance tends to breed you know we really need we need a new day inflexible ideology we need to be less predictable way ever feel like your own ideology starting to get predictable kind a conventional ever feel like you're always listening to people who agree with you why is that dangerous because when we talk in this country but economics on the right conservatives you're always talking about taxes and regulations and big government and on the left liberals talk about economics is always about income inequality right now those are important things really important the really important you pull it comes to lifting people up who are starving and need us today those are distractions we need to come together around the best ways to mitigate poverty using the best tools ur disposal and that comes only when conservatives recognize that they need liberals and their obsession with poverty and liberals need conservatives and their obsession with free markets that's the diversity in which lies the future strength of this country if we choose to take it so how are we going to do it I'm asking you and i'm asking me to be the person specifically who blurs the line it's whose ambiguous was hard to classify if you're a conservative be the conservative who's always going on about poverty and the moral obligation to be a warrior for the pour and if you're liberal the liberal who's always talking about the beauty of free markets to solve our problems when they use them responsibly if we do that maybe just maybe we'll all realize that our BIG difference aren't really that big after all the thanks of the fabrics he runs the American Enterprise Institute and you can see his entire talk at Ted dot com to share today ideas for moving beyond tolerance Gee think that it's hard for most people to talk about race I know a bunch of people by race pretty constant play almost every minute of the day I got it depends on who you are is it harmful why people talk about gays some of them absolutely least favorite subject but that's exactly what Renee Myers tries to get people to do she goes into companies and gets people to talk about the things that make the most uncomfortable ethnicity religion gender race and she does this so they can work better together even though lot of us grew up thinking that tolerating someone of a different race man try not to notice their race in some ways it was a great idea because a long time ago we notice color we were doing bad things so I think that's what people don't know tis color but I also think people misunderstood I think we were to say don't usual color people's color against them I don't think a vehicle or as less than but he didn't mean like don't pay attention to whatever race or ethnicity that you're from and so goes I think we kind of gone as far as we can go with the pain the the the relay is African American she says no matter what color you are if you want to move beyond tolerance you have to face up to your own Pisces and that's what she talked about on the Ted stage so I'm going to tell you to walk toward your discomfort and you know it's not the hardest thing to do but it's one of these things where you have to be conscious and intentional but you know I was on was three Ames area one time like maybe a several years ago as with a colleague of mine she's really wonderful when she does diversity work with me and she's a woman of color she's Korean and we're outside it was late and night we were sort of wondering where were going we were lost in the sun is present across the street now is thinking Oh great plaque I knew he was a plaque I think ah you know I don't know where they're going and she was like That's interesting she was saying Oh you're going yea it like I said that was going to the back the other direction same needs same guy same clothes same time same street different reaction she said the diversity the like the the you know one please we really need to relax about this I mean you better realize I go way back with like guys the My dad is a black guy using the same the six foot five black guys son was married to a black eye much like the thing is so wide and so deep that I can pretty much soy and figure out who that black guy hits and he was my black eye he said yes ladies and we are going out at you than the the the you know by seas are the stories we make up about people before we know who they actually are how we gonna know who they are when we've been told to avoid and be afraid of them the the the Myers returns with that answer after a quick break and Guy rise in on Saturday ideas about moving beyond tolerance with SU listening to the Ted Radio Hour from NPR the ol' o Hey Everyone Just a quick thanks to two of our sponsors who helped make this podcast possible first to optimum health care and innovation company here's a mobbed him lab's chief medical officer checks a hobby how did labs and its partners are using big data to help solve some of the health system's greatest challenges we hope for when you actually know how to analyze it in ways that are meaningful that's what we do hear of lads get those data driven insights to help make healthcare better I've done and how well it's done learn more abt him dot com slash and data in focus thanks also to ExxonMobil exclusive feel partners of the plenty rewards Program five hundred points is worth at least five dollars in savings you can pick up the car to exonerate Mobile branded station and start earning points right away it's the Ted Radio Hour from NPR and Guy rise and I'm sure today ideas for moving beyond tolerance and we're talking about things that are often very hard to talk about politics the Middle East race a subject that can get awkward yet messy absolutely but once you start experimenting you realize Oh yeah I said that the person got mad at me I apologize it was Ole K before the break we are hearing from Renee Myers she said diversity consultant and it's a job as she explained in her Ted talk where you need a lot of people who really honestly are trying to be good people tolerant people her message to those people is always the same stop trying to be good the ball the real people you know I do a lot of diversity work and people come up to me at the beginning of a work of the comb is diversity Lehi were so glad you're here but we don't have a bias pony nearby unlike relay has his work everyday and I see all my diocese I mean not too long ago was on a plane and I heard the voice of a woman's form with Impala coming over the P A system and I was just lights so excited so I guess when we rocked it we are now in the stratosphere you know it was all good in this tag and turbulent and bumpy and I was like wth I hope she can and for how it's like if you ask me explicitly I would say female pilot awesome but it appears that when things get funky in a little troublesome a little risky he wryly noted by said I didn't even know that I had a fast moving plays in the sky I want to get that ass my defaults minimize defaults who is your defaults who you trust who are you afraid of who you implicitly feel connected to who you run away from our time but there's something about humans that is very tribal that we as a species tend to gravitate toward humans who share our backgrounds or interests or religion or culture race or faith well it's been a lad of my time professionally and personally suggesting that we might want to overcome that tendency which is not to name it as bad I think if we could get people to understand that hey your comfort is reveal day everybody wants to be in their comfort sometimes rate it's just what are you missing about other groups in ways of being and can you remember that ultimately we are to say like we are the same ok so what we know that is the most effective tool in getting people to just tolerate each other but respect and like each other contacts to it sometimes is sold these eight have kids you know sometimes I can put people who've been working together for a long time in an exercise for two minutes where they share something about their backgrounds some part of their identity and why it's important to them and they will come out of that conversation going Oh my I wish I was so powerful that was so interesting I feel so close why because the person moves from being a mom a cultural individual to someone who is multifaceted and has a reminds you of your home and you can sorta see where you've been cutting that person off so I get that this would totally work in a in like a controlled space you like a safe space but what happens when people go out and into the real world has that feeling continue so here's the thing because some people like all you're asking the impossible because you want me to do like some kind of cultural sharing with someone it's not realistic use of realistic and I'm saying fine except if you were in the lease bit more curious about the stories you've put together if he didn't gesture Ross your bone is dory so much back to start the the the the way juz do inventory at Fay and your social and professional circles just like losing your circle who is missing one how many life and take relationships do you have with young black people folks men women or any other major difference from who you are and how you roll so to speak maybe somebody at work in a class from the house of worship somewhere to some black young guy there and you Nic say Hi I'm saying goal with deeper closer further it's the empathy in the compassion that comes out of having relationships with people who are different from you something really powerful beautiful happens you start to feel as if they are you that they're part of you and then we cease to be bystanders and we become actors to become advocates and we become allies in the I have why people change their worldview through contact as in someone in their family is gay now they're lovely son married someone from another tribe sued to speak their young beautiful daughter now has a debilitating disability and all of a sudden the heart grows to encompass a different way of seeing this difference but this is hard like it to move beyond just Times is work it's real work yet and I often see people just don't give of their worldview on a regular bases on the day to day basis because it's the thing the keys the world together and people don't want their worlds to tremble for the most part they want their worlds to stay sealed the last thing is going to be harder and I know it but I'm just going to put out there anyway we see something we have to have the courage to face some say even to the people we luff you know you can listen to the conversations around the table you start to say things like cramp oz of baby kick Uncle Joe is he says and you know we love Grandma and weeds of Uncle Joe we do what the saying is wrong and we need to be able to say something because you know who else is at the table children at the table and we wonder why these dioceses don't die and move from generation to generation because we're not saying anything and we've got to be willing to not shelter our children from the ugliness of racism when plaque parents don't have the luxury to do so especially those who have young black signs we had to take our lovely die liens our future and we have to tell them we have an amazing country with incredible ideals we have worked incredibly hard and we have made some progress but we are not done the the the I totally get at the same about children because I had this amazing experience to close aspect years ago my now seven year old was five am and we went to Melissa King Junior Memorial and he looked at the statue and he said which battle in the Revolutionary War did he lead and it was so powerful to me I was so moved by it because I thought Wow to this child he's just looking at another hero well I have to tell you that if that was my kid young black man I would have said actually he's a hero of another war our country was not willing to see him and the people that he is apart of as American and so he reminded us of where we had gone wrong and he and I would have just explain that to him because we have these young people these young brains and they are willing to see the possibilities and everybody but after awhile they start to get steamed and with out though write narratives that he will make the wrong judgments often do you think that we're at least heading and the right direction that we're heading to a future that it's not just about heart that it's about something much deeper so I will tell you what my hope is my hope is yes but it's we need grace we need compassion and humility but we are up for that we can do that is not as hard as we are making it out to be me me and said Oh I believe is the best time for anybody who has a contest to belive me the Mets Renee Myers should check out her and tired head back to that kind so a few months after graduating from college Aspen Baker was working at a bar in Berkeley California when she found out she was pregnant I was thinking I was going to be a mom I'm pregnant so I'm going to be a mom and I was terrified there was no other way to look at this this is as yet when you're pregnant you have a baby so that's where I was a trash bin and abortion was completely out of the question she caught up in a pretty conservative home although not in the typical way my parents were surfers we grew up on the beach and we're a Christian like Christian hippies like Christian conservatives like a hybrid of those things I would certainly raise a conservative environment you know abortion was wrong in and people shouldn't have abortions but I was also raise with a very like God is a loving God idea and so an ASP and told her boyfriend that they were going to have a baby he said he wasn't ready to be a father and so she started to wonder about her options whether maybe an abortion was the right choice for or not everyday that I was pregnant I would wake up one day and I going to be a mom here's what that's going to look like and have to move back home and have to do this and can be a bartender and be pregnant in trying to sort of imagine what that would look like and then the next said Wake up and sat on them an abortion to spend the day thinking about like what that would mean and how that would feel this was a huge conflict for you yes I was living a very big existential crisis and one night after work in the middle of that crisis Aspen sat down with a friend Polly we closed up shop at two am and we usually always had a drink together and I didn't have a drink and she was like Why are you pregnant and I was like this and then she told me she had an abortion and she was the first person who ever told me that they'd had an abortion rule and I remember thinking Oh really like her she seems to be doing okay and she had a harsh and maybe it doesn't ruin you for Life room that no man really made Aspen begin to see that women who had abortions for these anonymous invisible people they were her friends and after thinking about it some more Aspen decided to have an abortion she says part of her was relieved but then there was another really big question she was facing I just did this thing that I said I would never do though and well who am i now i found out that a lot of other people in my life had had abortions but they hadn't told me because they knew that I identified as pro life and that was one of the most heartbreaking things to realize that you would judge them they thought I would judge them and so they never told me about theirs and it wasn't until I had mine and told that that they felt safe enough and that broke my heart was at that point when Aspen realize that even though we hear so much talk about abortion rights and debates and lies and regulations we don't hear nearly as much from the women who actually have abortions and their stories because when you start talking to real people about their real experience as it gets much more messy and much more chaotic and much more difficult to fit easily into a box and that seemed important it seemed important to have disrupted this black and white us versus them or us or against this kind of thinking with more humanity The The so that fifteen years ago has been decided to start an organization called exhale and it's a place where women can get support after an abortion free of any judgment has been explained how it works on the Ted stage the first thing we did was create a top line for women and men could call to get emotional support free of judgement and politics believe it or not nothing like our service had ever existed and we needed a new framework that could hold all the experiences that we were hearing on our top line the feminists who regrets her abortion the Catholic who's grateful for her personal experiences that were fitting neatly into one box or the other and we didn't think it was rights to ask women to pick a side we wanted to show them that the whole world was on their side
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