DiscoverUp and VanishedCase Evidence 04.17.17

Case Evidence 04.17.17

Update: 2017-04-171
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Take a deeper look at the evidence as experts discuss new developments in the case.

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in today's episode will be taking a deeper look into the Mind of Ryan Alexander do the man charged with terror instead murder by now we've talked to several of Ryan's friends who enlightened us on his behavior over the years but we still haven't been able to find a solid note of her tears murder a few episodes back we discovered a Facebook message that Ryan Duke and sent another former teacher of this seemed very peculiar we also learn naturally after tears this appearance Ryan to one of his friends and having night terrors couldn't sleep they'll be speaking with Doug Miller again the forensic psychologists we had on a few weeks ago the last time that had very little information given but based on what we did know that I'm done offered a theory that maybe Ryan had some sort of obsession over to her or maybe even teachers today and meeting with Doug again with new information that may or may not support that theory this case evidence The The The The The The The The The The The The 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find the one nearest you go to sleep Number Dakar be sure to tell them up in Venice since u to recap everything Ryan Duke it's that one of his former teachers a Facebook message on April twenty seventh two thousand and fifteen six twenty two a m said this How are you just an older wiser full seeing how you were doing gotta admit thought you were sexy things are great for me but is ok life is the singularity we all share if this is the last we speak what you know your wonderful teacher and a kind person thank you for allowing my stubborn self to learn I wish you the best shared this message with the forensic psychologist Doug Miller to get his thoughts on the ironic right potentially meaningful is this something they like the prosecution would use to prove their point if their narrative was he had an obsession or something like that with her you know you could say it's one data point that supports the position may be enough to raise that story for jury know I imagine will come on if that's what actually happen just an idea that we can toss around that maybe he thought there was a relationship there and could have been in a sort of thing but he took it too far and they were on the same level when it came to what was going on there but ten years later if he'd say if Ryan Duke did feel terror what does that make you think that ten years later it's consistent with him potentially having a crush was maintained and him acting from an emotional place this is seven years later but the crime occurred when he was twenty was about twenty one twenty one yeah it's a guy who seems to hold on the things that slime if this is the last we speak going to know your your wonderful teacher and calm person whether that was something bad is about to happen or if she didn't respond in return look at the time oh in the morning six thirty three so it's either he woke up early was up all my up all night you know to me guy reaching out for the potential of a relationship through in their gotta admit thought you were sexy oh my I mean come on and it seems and has some feelings for her and this was a high school teacher yes it's a long time afterwards with those for that story that he may have held onto some hopes about being intimate or are having relationship with terror because you're used to the sort of sympathize or empathize with them it makes sense I mean if you do something professionally and you'll these people you sort of learn to understand on a different level doesn't mean the you agree with what they've done or that you think it was right but you can sorta where something may have gone wrong to make them who or something basically the jury in people in general what's happened including from a psychological standpoint and usually that comes together in a case and you can tell the story that really seems truthful that actually captures what actually happened once that happens you know if you if you're a compassionate person then you're going to have some understanding and even to say Will I could see how that would happen whether you still feel that it was heinous and horrible oh you may have some sympathy just depends on I think it goes back to the mitigation on the defense side versus the aggravation on the prosecutor's side separately the two possible ways to interpretations you've gone to an interesting level of depth in terms of psychologically know for that to be supported the notion that there was an obsession now back in repayment in two different ways to your thinking like a psychologist and you're making hypothesis that there would have to be more information for to be convincing like you said this is one data point so now you have that piece of information to start looking into that said the prosecution could use it this is a man who's prone to obsessive ideas that you know when intoxicated or otherwise turns into some very negative behavior and I think where the works for either side depends on how it's presented and what more of the details of the facts and the evaluation of Ryan himself reveals right to me it just seemed extremely ironic and the fact he's been charged with the murder of a former teacher and we find a very peculiar Facebook message to another former teacher basically saying he's got a crush on her yeah it's like you see two points of the story but it's like near the beginning and so did what's going to fill then what is the actual connection is the one you know but that's something that I would hold onto if I was evaluating him and want to understand more one thing I've definitely found from talking to people who is that the Ryan today is not the Rye and he was ten twelve years ago by a longshot is completely different he has changed alot over a decade to say how well universe just looking at him he looks really unhealthy he's had drinking problems I've been told over the years and his friends come to describe them as slowly kind of turning miserable yet I've seen both pictures and I absolutely agree with you and so you know everyone can come up with maybe a thousand explanations of how that might happen you know it he added sewn substance abuse issues prior to the murder so that may not be an introduction of anything new but he may have gone down this path no plugging it into this narrative assuming that he did commit the murder that this deterioration in him mentally emotionally spiritually occurred to the impact of him having committed this murder you know we don't get the feeling that this is a guy who's just a cold blooded killer that murdered with his life I don't think that's what's being told here right this isn't sort of psychopathic just cold hearted person this is kind of regular quiet guy and so does still know it fits that narrative and I think that's what UConn hitting on here and remorse supposed to be something that's too heavily considered but the defense will if that's the story that that this will really greatly impacted the sky was a victim to his own motion malady in his own mental weakness and this was a crime of passion it returns all like that it affected him greatly and really wounded him on a deep level that affected the rest of his life in a very negative way because he felt so bad about it regardless of what it does to him or for him in the courtroom the general public likes to know does he feel bad about it is he remorseful and the general public's going to be in those translate its own story to The The The and make a next move and make your next website square space doesn't seventeen people if you have a website or you doing no seriously you're an artist entrepreneur musician business owner you're getting married need to have a website I've been using square space since like two thousand and six because of the absolute best all one platform for making websites first base has award winning templates which makes for a beautiful way to present your ideas on and they also have award winning twenty four seven customer service Christmas is flexible for any kind of website my wife and I got married we made a website where space instead of dealing with two hundred plus horse tee pees in the mail everyone already peed on the website we had all the email addresses and contact information is in the details right now then offer up and as listeners use the promo code up and get ten percent off your purchase of a website or domain this Christmas the car this Christmas stuck on promo code up shortly after tear was murdered Ryan do confided one of his friends he was having night terrors and he couldn't sleep and it actually got so bad that he had to check himself into a facility want to get your take on what causes night terrors what exactly he may have been talking a bow and if there could have been any relation to what happened to terror and how he was feeling about it yet an aide and lots of causes to night terrors anything from you know eating pickles before the two being traumatized what is the night air it's really extreme nightmare it saw something where are having a tremendous fear response usually to the point where you wake up because your adrenaline is going your heart's racing sweating I mean your light in a terrifying situation in your dream and you wake up terrified usually people wake up know sometimes you don't wake up but that's kind of a general description of a night terror kids have normal for sort of unexplainable reasons three mysterious they can associate with physical illness like fever so lots of things can cause them so one of my areas of expertise as post rock stress disorder and one of I assess severity of trauma symptoms of pushback stress disorder is recurring nightmares that are related to trauma so the night terrors one think the question is what's the content exactly and because you know I work with people that have night terrors and PTSD but maybe the night terrors don't seem related to the trauma and then it's a question of whether they actually are in awe and so back begins to be one of the questions in this case no grief and bereavement can often look a lot like trauma so when or we have a lot of guilt about something we've done back and look alot like trauma as well and you can have night terrors about that and you can have intrusive thoughts and as a whole set of symptoms anyone can google PTSD push treacherous disorder in and see what those are but it gets more severe when night terrors are more frequent or even regular and then if someone's having flashbacks were reliving the trauma that's about this a very you know symptom on that list he didn't explain to his friend exactly what he was thinking or if he was dreaming or having flashbacks of anything he just said he has been able to sleep he had talked in awhile he said Sorry I've been having night terrors and not be able to sleep so to go get checked out for little while for him see me for a little while my first kind of reaction you know it would be something one consider and look at today is a guy that will have a huge secret murders of what is holding a secret not telling people but he might be having these symptoms and so people then attributed to other things who knows what happens as we of information worry we are using conjecture you do and yes getting little pieces and eventually the story eventually have a very satisfying I think a sense that we have the truth is is going to be there so you buy like wondering about the trauma in the truth is in the details and we know what the details sometimes right so as far as the PTSD goes aren't nightmares and night terrors Dave sort of symptoms of PTSD as well as it manifests itself very very often mom especially in the months and even years following the trauma they're more common that they can go on for a lifetime and it's one of the first symptoms I ask because again it nails least a moderate severity to the PTSD other things are avoiding the associated stimuli from us so she might avoid her St he might've avoided the pecan orchard he may have stopped saying no with his buddy if you use traumatized and being reminded anything that reminds of that creates a state of our great anxiety and overwhelm and it brings up the images the memories the feelings of the incident and those become intolerable and overwhelming and a great strain on some one's resources and a lot of people that do have trauma anxiety is one of the characteristics of PTSD goal turned to drugs to self medicate and reduce their anxiety so while we're focused on this in PTSD people avoid associated stimuli when they're exposed to it the experience arousal like anxiety and panic and want to get away from an escape all that another set of symptoms and PTSD nightmares on anxiety already an intrusive thoughts so you just be having hang out maybe fishing and thought of it comes into your head and causes the type of disturbance in anxiety in you so disturbing intrusive thoughts are another symptom and this is where you get this kind of tortured image might fit the actual photographs that were describing of his deterioration over the ten years and he was tormented and tortured by what happened The The The The The The fashion should not have to cost you a fortune with the tote you can rent your look and get new clothes every single day you can get to seven hundred dollars with the clothing for only thirty nine bucks a month my wife always complain about shopping for clothes but she loves new clothes for the past month has been using the tote to upgrade or wardrobe the poor and the K of the e the the the works of the days here to shop I hate having the lovely except the business the way his new that I once worked for to go to the towed the car to stall your style profile and sign up to get a custom tote delivered right to your door then you can wear what you want to return everything in the mail when you're done in a few days later you get a new box right now is offering fifty percent off your first month gala tote dot com l e t o t e doc on in the Pro Loco case for case evidence to get fifty percent off your first month the foto da calm promo code case what is the fundamental difference in the person that shows the symptoms of deterioration PTSD guilt remorse versus the person who doesn't know what were your own hands and that is kind of the spectrum of psych op with E and that includes anti social personality with his lack of concern or regard for other people or that the impact of their actions in it and be very self serving other people more is like objects to obtain gain and benefit than as a kind of the normal valuing of human life and the the people of one way to understand that is just a matter of kind of emotion compassion and heart in the person that is affected and the lack of those the lack of compassion a lack of regard for others in the antisocial and psychopathic spectrum disorders antisocial psychopathic individuals don't relate in a compassionate sympathetic manner to other individuals and so they can perpetrate against them and feel no guilt or remorse or regret they don't deteriorate dog along the next victim or just like you know be the same thing years later and you know the way you look for that you look at criminal history you look at if you're a psychologist or a person that works with people you can sometimes sit across from them and just feel a difference while driving I was thinking about other things I can ask you now just wondering do you have like us since we sat down next to somebody that this guy might be a murderer or a full u easily is it different every time very much now the saga no mean anything in the courtroom and I use it as I said like another data point of the stars of Torino someone could feel really cold because maybe at a bad day or maybe they're afraid or maybe solo as a practitioner you want your reactions and some of us a lot of us are trained to use ourselves as tools and terms of understanding I think that's where some of the greatest insights and aspects of being a psychologist come in is the kind of intuitive sense that all needs to be backed up and you can be biased by that stuff you really have to look at the data you really ought to look at the information and psychologists don't go on this thin particularly in these kinds of cases are pretty much any case in court and so although Scott had a gut feeling about it yet that's just not going to go over well in practice that stuff is used but it's not relied upon in terms of making conclusions I think most of the people to this may of had an experience with a across from a person or interacting with the person and they just seem to be a coldness are a sense that something may have been missing in terms of an ordinary type or relating and warmth certainly but some things even maybe on that and then there's other people use it across and you feel like they're you know to like your Aunt Mildred so the speaker of the just these warm passionate caring persons I mean I can see in your eyes that you know I think you're pretty compassionate person we haven't talked a whole lot right away think we could see that in each other don't you ever full of love that question and my standard response is I believe I can be fooled by anyone and because I I think um food less than someone who thinks they cannot be fooled if you believe it can't be fooled you're full of exactly and by knowing that things that your impression or even the data that you get may not be accurate and validity is a huge issue in that in all of this and want you know getting enough of a substantial picture of a person in terms of not only the test there that psychologist use not only our gut feelings that we may be used initially in the case but in terms of third party reports general consistency across the lens validity the answers ya i can be fooled and think on full ass because I know that just in general from what we learned last time we talked to feel indifferent about things now than he did last time with less information you know it's still a small amount of information relative to when I evaluate someone we have to be in my office right now and although this is just one case and so have you know about it and twelve in stack of records some of those of four or e pages compress them into onto one page from the flower and you never know when a piece of informations going to come up so there's really a small information but the something that's starting to form here which is you know sort of this emotional crash theory or color or maybe just the crash theory again it's of small mana information but you know even saying like this is kind of seems to fit that the Saudis started this interview this seems to fit that sort of explanation I think you have a sense about this case about who Ryan in you you know I affirm that he doesn't know in my opinion with the limit amount of freshmen seem like an antisocial car right so then this is a guy they by his emotions and then this a little facebook message comes up also is the deterioration over time that's a tricky one because what is a person who would commit a you know I've come to find that there's a surprising range that answer and I'm sure that they are you know completely dysfunctional deranged people i guess ur feel differently the film about the same now there's a little data about this teacher and him have potentially having crushes on people I'm getting clearer about the chance that he was traumatized perhaps by the murder itself or aggrieved or guilt stricken to the point of feeling bereaved and showing symptoms of trauma or complex treatment which can look a lot of trauma so those directions seem you know I think the audience really would love to evaluate this guy for this purpose of just curious and yes Jason I think that's when we can start really get in some of the me in this case to affirm some of the stories it is interesting that we touched on the possibility to the bed he entertained some kind of emotional and passionate fantasy about his teachers so we cut we brought that up but then this Facebook post comes up and I know that this is look good but yeah I was wowed yeah so to hold that as a hypothesis that no of data that may support it and there's a lot of dots that half the fear filled in so for example if that was the only data point and you're sitting on the stand in front of a jury and the whole courtroom and the job this was obviously a passionate emotional thing because look you made this Facebook message wouldn't fly but it's pointing in that direction not something that needs to be explored and see if that's part of what happened here The The The The guys today's episode was mixed and mastered by resonate recordings you can check them out a resume recordings Dakar by the way if you haven't yet you can follow up in Venice on Twitter and Instagram handle is up and vanished be sure to tune in next Monday twenty fourth episode seventeen thanks guys we'll see soon
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Case Evidence 04.17.17

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