S1E : Case Evidence 05.01.17
Take a deeper look at the evidence as experts discuss new developments in the case.
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as we talk about some of these factors in this case right now one of which is the infamous leave his love for months now we've discussed that live there full of volunteers for your countless times we know that years ago the GBI was able to obtain male DNA from the glove isn't reliable the longer I undo what kind of advancements over the past ten years can change things with tears case moving relatively fast in the legal system which we expect in a trial to dry and turn on Bo and his defense claim that he committed the murder if he does that affect the state's case and their star witness who may be given immunity today will attempt to answer these tough questions this case evidence the The The The The The The The The The The The The The The View on a quest for epic gear housewares and collectibles well Luke rate has it is the best surprise you know is coming Luke rate offers a range of pop culture items for less than twenty bucks a month in the cool thing is this something for everybody if you're more of a fanatical faction nice to try Lou where monthly wearable and accessories with cult classics in all your favorite franchises or like I did get some of your pet this month my dog Layla Luke Ray with an investigation team go see how I like her treats this month oh my goodness look at Kate Earl May's Luke rate you'll find some from guardians Of The Galaxy two Star Wars destiny and the new knees so be the envy of your friends are getting your loot in right now Lucroy has an offer for up and as listeners to Luke radar Come Flash vanish into the code vanish and get three dollars off a new subscription so give it a try at Luke rate dot com slash vanish promo code vanish before his sword to have some important updates to bring you to fill you in what's happening this week here's the hallway we think about and the defendant entering a not guilty plea at arraignment it's important to understand that that does not mean that there will be a trial in the case a plea of not guilty can always be changed if and when the parties believe that some negotiated plea deal is appropriate it's a very easy thing to do to change the plea from not guilty to guilty when an attorney on behalf of the defendant enters a not guilty plea at arraignment that simply preserve all of their rights including their right to a trial does not necessarily mean there will be a trial it just means that for now they're not ready to complete the case so let's stay tuned and watch what happens very closely not just at arraignment but as the process moves forward through the court process and every stage our first guest today is made whole on Jiri a forensic DNA expert who is here to bring us all some clarity about this latex glove and also any other potential DNA evidence in this case may call and the area and I'm a forensic DNA consultant in Los Angeles my firm is and he being a consulting LLC I work with attorneys and inmates who have complicated the evidence in that case I help them to understand it I help them identify the strengths and weaknesses I review the case files of other laboratories I testify as an expert witness and I help these inmates with their trial preparation DNA is a substance that's found in all living things and it's essentially the instruction manual for life so as all the information for a living thing to exist as humans are tells us that one head two arms two legs and a sense of cultural information we need to exist it's also the genetic material so we get half of our DNA from our mother and half of our DNA from her father in A makes copies of itself so that essentially every cell in our body has the same genetic information DNA is found within cells in the body cells and obvious ones would be in blood it's in the white cells in semen and sperm cells but we have trillions of cells in a body in shedding them constantly so even skin cells perspiration and urine sees anything that comes out of the body essentially may have some level of DNA in it and every person has become more sensitive now in a less obvious examples so just from touching an item from your end from perspiration all of these things had detectable amounts of DNA in them in Terence this case the only known DNA that was found was on a single latex glove found in her front yard in your experience how difficult is it to retrieve DNA of material like that in general a tech school on a pretty good source of DNA or because the hand is probably perspiring in the latex because they can't breathe very well a lot of contact with the skin and rubbing off the skin cells so in my experience you have pretty good luck with latex gloves what is the process in getting the DNA off of that love well one of the tricks of latex gloves years trying to figure out what the inside once the outside and can you determine in which way the club was warm so typically what you have to do is you get a sample it with the swap saying a moistened Islam that is essentially sterile Q tip and yours is going to rub the surface of the glove unity the inside and the out and at that point you can take that swab for all of your process sees see if you have enough DNA to analyze and then go ahead and develop a DNA type that you can hopefully compared to victims and suspects in the case for trying to get a fingerprint sample and a DNA sample off of something does that complicate things and trying to get both of the same thing you know there's a specific order that you should handily evidence once he starts wanting something that could have fingerprints on it you'll disturb any pattern evidence that is there by the physical sloppy so what you wanted is in generally process an item for fingerprints first because the fingerprint processing for the most part does not preclude you from getting DNA although you need to be careful because there have been instances where police departments have used fingerprint brushes and multiple crime scenes and you could essentially contaminate of fingerprint brush with DNA from one crime scene and bring another you're not careful once they have the DNA sample what to do next with the So now you've got to swap and in the case of the gloves and it's not bloody you can't see anything just a white Swan don't give me an eighty run a two year USC's first act is something that's known as an extraction and that is basically want to get all the cellular material off of the swab break apart those cells isolate the DNA and purify it so what you're left with is a very small test tube with clear liquid that has essentially purify DNA that you can now work with the next step is determine how much DNA is present do you have enough human DNA to even proceed how much that it is male versus female and then using instrumentation in you will develop a profile which is essentially a series of numbers that you have attained for victims or suspects that you want to compare to the evidence profile so if you have sufficient gaining information from a crime scene sample you can then enter it into the coldest days the combined DNA Index System and then asserts these days in a national database or maybe fourteen million profiles in there that's going to be DNA samples from convicted offenders are Estes other crime scenes and there's some other indices as well such as missing persons and that search will be conducted relatively quickly within probably a matter of weeks at the national level was entered into the system if there is a match how do you find out about it what happens is the law enforcing agency will get a notification of the match typically from the state database manager at that time that letter is going to say Hey we've got to master this person but it's only investigative lead you should now go get another sample from this person and test it to your evidence just to confirm that match so the code is here in of itself is just an investigative lead to this code is automatically came when there's a match in the system or to have to check manually over the years automatically seen as you say so as more profiles are added as more defenders arrests go in there there's a constant search algorithm going on from a good DNA profile what can you tell about the person without being able to test it again something else classically like in a forensic laboratory year not returning any real traits from that DNA profile other then is it male or female you're just developing a set of numbers that you can compare to other people to see if there's any association there is such a thing now called forensic Gino typing where let's say that yes sample of DNA a nice amount you get a good profile didn't match it to any victims or suspects ran in the database you got no matches theoretically are edited and a few friends a female typing you can actually determine some of the physical traits of the person who left that you may be high for example hair color eye color skin tone ethnic heritage facial structure and you can almost build essentially a genetic mug shot of the person left behind through the years as we study the human genome to identify where these genes for these traits reside in a developed these tests that will give you this type of information so you can put that altogether and you can come up with a generalized version of how this person might look and it might just help eliminate somebody say based on race but if you put that together with a forensic artist who can compensate for ageing or your metabolism or facial hair he can start getting a pretty nice picture of what this person might look like there's a really really cool development that's he's more more in the last few years so back to the latest love in your experience is it possible that DNA found on something like this could be from somebody who made it in the factory or something yet it could be because even in some of the materials that are used in DNA laboratories they had trace contamination back to manufacturer and a latex glove you're not necessarily manufacturing cat in an environment in a free unless it's a sterile gloves I think one key factor in that is the amount of DNA present its contamination during manufacturing it could be a lot of the day but it's most likely a small amount so let's say that you sloppy what you believe is the inside of the club he got a pretty nice amount of DNA a pretty clear profile it's more likely not the manufacturer there's certainly been cases where different laboratories were sort of getting the same profile if a man got a serial killer serial perpetrator Lincoln in that way whatever reason you can figure out that this can't be and they were able to trace doubts the manufacture of some DNA testing equipment does the DNA stay on something forever I mean if a poll evidence how is it still going to be there forever but gays are a terrible and obviously we're solving cold cases that are thirty four years old were investigating ancient DNA from thousands of years ago so if DNA has been physically removed say by bleaching or the DNA hasn't been in super harsh conditions liked being we add to our Out in the desert can last for a long time and this is one of the problems when we interpret the evidence is we can't put the tying Stan as to when that DNA was deposited sometimes it's hard to tell if a DNA profile is irrelevant to the crime that's being investigated last month the GBI was searching for tears remains on the pecan orchard and it was rumored that she had been burned I was curious is there still way to retrieve DNA from any remains that they may have found to verify that it is in fact Aaron said it will be the body is full on cremated usually you're out of luck it was more of an informal burn from a good chance that there's a tooth or a part of the loan or something that can be tested again as our technology is involved we can get those little minute traces of DNA even if it's in bad shape it was really sort of beat up in the burning even if you look at some of the military investigations of looking at some of the war dead in signing bonus from Korean or something like that you know they can still get profiles you line I get isn't much information as you'd like but you can almost always get something like I say unless the bodies absolutely cremated usually you don't have good luck with that in the the I recently heard a pretty intense story of Wisconsin house caught fire nobody was home alone time for the neighbors the notice at the end of the day forty thousand dollars in damages priceless items just gone bottom line is not there when the fire starts who's going to be their savior home well for simply safe home security user Tricia simply say it was there she was on vacation or home caught fire she was three states away with simply say if the smoke alarm went off the fire department was alerted immediately they're able to get there in time to savor home simply states around the clock professional security is just fourteen ninety nine a month and because simply save supports up and vanished special offer for you to simply say Come Flash vanished get ten percent off with simply say twenty four some connection to dispatch and lightning fast response times and all emergencies to give it a shot simply save to come flash vanished the the the past week I stumbled upon an Oracle from the Macon Telegraph from October seventeenth two thousand and fifteen something caught my eye the article discussed the latest Love as potential evidence was on to say quote potential evidence was collected in two thousand and five apparently from Winston's house that may in the end prove vital to finding out what became of her GBI Special Agent J T Richardson declined to go into detail but the mission quote scientific leaps and bounds have in May regarding DNA in the past decade he then goes on to state the DNA labs are now able to separate DNA that may have been matched so what exactly was he talking about what is mess DNA last mail about this and sent him the same article I was unclear in the media report I saw it they are talking about the club are talking about some other evidence actually from her residence there's a good chance that in addition to the glove I would be surprised at the swabs and items in a residence because even in two thousand five people were starting to get hit to touch DNA so anything that the perpetrator might handled you would swap trying to get their DNA the problem is is it could be low level it could be mixed with her DNA and it could be the kind of scenario where you get these results but you can't really say much about it now in two thousand seventeen with better technology to where you can get information from some restrict your samples would be surprised if they might have some DNA results that go back with different software look at or if they've got additional DNA runs and better tests that are more informative sometimes if you can only get a little bit of information from the sample you might not get the profile that you can put in the database but if you have a known suspect now you can compare even that partial information to that unknown suspect as if there's any agreement or an exclusion zone there may be items are personal items or items or how's that of course going to have a lot of her DNA and so if somebody touches it briefly they may deposit a little bit so it could be that for example yet of very small not melty and not enough that he could pull out and make a profile with Nicks in with a ton of female DNA one example of new technology where technology is male specific DNA testing called Y STR so if you've got that needle in haystack was a little bit of mail with a lot of female male specific will send you subtract out all the female even nice clear profile of the male Guinea believe it or not he in some regards two thousand five is I was in the dark ages of the name but we've moved quite a bit in the last twelve years the sensitivity the number of markers and has the ability to interpret the evidence really has come a long way I think about it DNA forensics isn't really that all of science it really came into Vogue in the mid nineteen eighties the reason I thought maybe that wasn't the club is at least my understanding in reading some media reports that they're saying hey we got a profile we just couldn't match it to anybody like to try I don't think that gnashing then would refer to the club I think that has to be something else that they sampled our next guest today is renown forensic psychologist Lewis fuss in ger photo before a few times in the past but nothing's after the arrests so much happening Reno decided to reach back out to him when you try to understand a murder case you're trying to come up with what was the motive what with the dynamics what we really went on there is a complex motives that you can attribute to a complicated motive an extraordinary motive you know someone surprises someone abducted are obsessed with her and all this or there's a more simple motive it's almost always a simple reason the complex extraordinary sorts of explanations are really quite rare in this case the explanation at least from what we know right now is very straightforward it was a break in Andrea burglary in attempt to get money she was evidently there which led to a murder which led to a cover up it seems at least on the surface at this point quite straightforward this is rather commonplace we don't know what he knew I mean nobody wakes up in middle and I go think all rob a house of a teacher of mine from years ago when they have told him something he may have heard something from someone about her conduct and behavior where she was you may not have been all if she had money there so it wasn't the case but he just woke up in the middle that I did this or we're going to have to wait to find out exactly what the motives and all of the levels of motivation and dynamics were with one suspect pretty much turning on the other how we know who to believe how we know the roles are switched you can't believe either of these guys unless you have corroborated evidence or support in terms of facts of what anyone saying if I've learned anything in forty one years of practice as a forensic psychologist I love that lying is very very commonplace you can believe either would either person says Ryan Duke has a clear motive to lie because he was caught with wrongdoing and is facing life in prison Bo Duke also has a motive to lie is well because he's involved in this so you have to corroborate everything with facts and evidence otherwise you can't rely on anything they say there was very well could be reversed saying you can't rely on anything these guys tell you it has to be supported or corroborated by facts or evidence otherwise you're just talking so we're just going to have to be patient and wait and see what the police as they may have evidence Bo Duke's may have given specific about what happened what Ryan told him happened the types of things that were taken from Paris home it's hard to know from a distance exactly what the police have but they obviously had enough to get an indictment and trial brings also it's important for a lot of your listeners to understand that only a little bit more than sixty percent of four murders are cleared by law enforcement meaning that there was an arrest made almost forty percent of all murders in the United States is no rest may you have thousands and thousands of people walking around keeping secret that they kill somebody you know most people don't know but it's not all the usual twenty thousand murders approximately a year in the United States and the clearance rate is about sixty four sixty five percent depending upon the year so you have thousands and thousands of people that kill somebody and just keep that in any other cases like this where there's two main suspects one of them was the person who did the act of murdering and the other person helped cover it up in the roles have been switched to reverse numerous times numerous times numerous times you get a case of murder with his multiple offenders and they get caught they will say the other one that I didn't do it he did it and it's very hard for a prosecutor you actually pull the trigger who had the gun the weapon I was there I know you had a gun I do know this guy added and it happens all the time the court deals with is on a daily basis there's really nothing unusual about that happens all the time barring any DNA evidence or something directly linking Ryan to the crime other than Bo Duke's testimony do you think that if you just flip the script and said Hey you know what Bo Duke's to the roles are reversed they would have a tough time convicting him sure I mean if you brought up on shore Ryan Duke's attorneys say my guy didn't do it Bo Duke's that the state's prize witnessed it and the reason he didn't look at the daily got he was involved in all this and you gave him two years he sang that happens all the time in murder cases nothing unusual about that at all and the court is very familiar in dealing with a deal this all the time the prosecutors knows what's coming and the defense attorneys what comics are lots of twists and turns happen and invert trials as now you know it will certainly keep everybody's interest it's an interesting case the the the the fashion should not have to cost a fortune with the tote you can rinse your look get new clothes every single day you can get to seven hundred dollars with a floating only thirty nine bucks a month yes thirty nine bucks a month my wife is always completed the shopping for clothes but she loves new clothes for the past month has been using that oath to upgrade or wardrobe today she got a new box and the echo of the V the K of that yet the woodwork in the middle of the Avenida topping the eleven is that this is the way to do that I once worked for Google to Dakar to fill your style profile and sign up to get a custom tote delivered right to your door then you can wear what you want to return everything in the mail when you're done in a few days later you get a new box right now they have a special offer for Up in Venice listeners use the promo code vanished to get fifty percent off your first month together to try to tote dot com promo code banished the past week I got my hands on a very interesting set of documents pertaining to Bo Duke's we know that just a few years ago but was charged and convicted with stealing nearly one hundred and fifty thousand dollars in U S Army in these particular documents I have contain every single detail what the fall help break it all down so have the stocking to hear that as long as you can to break down what exactly we're looking at right here this is part of the criminal case that the documents that were filed in the District Court of Federal District Court in Savannah basically that summarizes the case against him it talks about what he's charged with it talks about the disposition of the case it talks about his Senate there's a long list on this document we don't have to read all that basically decide Mises the dates that certain things happened and it's really just the formal record if you will of how things progress through the court system and it indicates what his sentence is as a recommendation that he goes to the Federal Bureau of prisons to a location in Pelham Georgia and they give some a day to surrender later now that's not at all uncommon in federal court in state courts if you are a plea a prison sentence usually in custody immediately in the federal system they will typically give a date for which you're supposed to turn yourself and give further directions to the Bureau of prisons about the type of custody the judge is recommending basically had to turn himself and I think before November the fourth of twenty thirteen And I believe that basically the plea was entered on October thirty the same year so good about him also was charged with or the charges the bow to God this case charged him with violation of eighteen US Code three seventy one conspiracy basically they dismissed a count of theft of government property so it was part of the plea deal he pled to one count they dismissed one count it was still a felony and the disposition was that he was committed to the custody of the U S Bureau of prisons for twenty seven months on supervised release which is what the federal government calls probation for three years and their special conditions of his probation supervision or that he pay one hundred and thirty four thousandthree hundred and twenty eight dollars and thirty eight cents and administrative assessment of one hundred dollars There's another count of conspiracy where he got a little bit different type of sentence where he was committed to custody the U S Bureau of Prison For term of six months with a supervised release for three years and again restitution that term of imprisonment appears to be concurrent meaning it runs of the longer prison sentence well there's one thing in here also pain that is really interesting and if you look at it in the context of someone who's not really good at following instructions and and conditions imposed by people in forty eight it appears from this document that in August of twenty thirteen there was a bond revocation basically the government accused of violating the rules of his pre trial release the notes indicate that the defendant stipulated and agreed to the allegations that he violated his mind remember we talked about he could stipulate to the factual basis of committing a crime in this case he stipulated without going into any detail that he did in fact violated bond the court accepted the stipulation and as punishment the court will amend the conditions of pretrial release to include and says the following electronic monitoring that's an ankle monitor imposed a curfew and it says that the defendant may be away from his residence on days of employment from Saturday at five a m to five p and non employment Days nine a m to five pm so this document contained right here in the middle of the case file indicates someone has a problem complying with instructions and complying with court orders the document says that one of the conditions of supervised release is that the defendant shall cooperate in the collection of DNA as directed by the probation officers is check if applicable and it is in fact checked along with other conditions such as not possessing a firearm weapons and basically standard conditions like don't leave the judicial district without permission report to probation supervision as directed and follow the rules that probation sets out but it definitely does require him to cooperate with the clash of the DNA sample he submitted a DNA sample and what better think Otis and there was no match
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