S1E : Case Evidence 07.24.17
Take a deeper look at the evidence as experts discuss new developments in the case.
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there's only one left episode twenty four of Season one will come on Monday July thirty first it's a bittersweet feeling the season one is now coming to an int or excited to announce the after season one is over myself up in Venice crew traveling the country putting on a live show version of the podcasts I've been working that are going to K's for almost two years now I have hours of exclusive video and audio content that is never made it into the podcast this year we fell into over fifteen cities nationwide to share with you exclusive audio and video experience of season one to share with you all the untold stories from my investigation with documentary footage exclusive interviews in a live audience Q A session with myself and several of its contributors and chances are we're going to your city or Lisa sitting nearby were going to Durham St Louis Chicago Minneapolis Seattle Los Angeles Portland San Francisco Dallas Houston Austin New York Boston DC Atlanta him anymore and just recently we created the terrorists and Scholarship Fund three thousand dollars donation of as podcast ten percent of all ticket sales for more live shows will be donated to the theme Scholarship Fund love more information about the scholarship in the finale episode tickets for a live show are available right now are going fast to find out more information is the list of cities were going to go up in Venice talk from Flash live up in Venice dock on Flash Live experience even one whole new way with exclusive documentary footage and audio as well as a live Q and A with me in the rest of the best team tickets are available now up in Venice the Come Flash Live It Up and Come Flash Live versus the end of episode twenty two we heard the call between Nelson pulled from the Rowan County Sheriff's Department and his grandson I've been flooded with emails from listeners if there was a cover up who can investigate it and what constitutes corruption versus plain incompetence these are some of the many questions people ask me today will attempt to answer them with the help of Bobby to cone twenty seven year veteran Special Agent with the FBI this case evidence The The The The The The The The The The The The The The to refresh your memory here's the call referring to the end of episode twenty two or later the aw yeah I can not only will they or rather the way they get a podcast about you some guy Alan Morgan original search here you can torture the week Dear God through the wall and three isn't old it go Paul though he says he did all this hell hole we call Search to put him in the words of the GP Act which is all in all of you may say this will just walk into the half so with all the sodium in the game back in from the hallway we knew about this list too much that she disappeared the GBI to say we but look what we basically in there with their investigation at all about how you all about the investigation the list of hot gases although he may be for sale the people of them so that all but a lot today is the view here but I ask you if you did more talking about it and you know the law the measure could occur here name is not just the man you are happy to be a day dear hopefully she will feel really bad there isn't that cool but you can reverse the whole talk here's a clip bopper twelve years ago all in all the mommy took you twenty seven year veteran special agent FBI is cool too we say most interesting thing about that telephone call is the confidence that Nelson Paul has in his voice when he says that GBI has the whole story if you listen to that voice he's supremely confident that oh yeah they they know the whole story which also means seem to mean to me that he has the whole store the notable themselves seems to know the whole story and he seems very confident he seems very like almost like this was a case like once the story gets out there has been understandably is going to know what happen it's going to make sense whether or not that's true who knows but the one thing I took away from the phone call was his confident manner in which he said Oh yeah they they know everything now that may not he may be mistaken but that's the one thing that there seems to be the feeling that there's no mystery anymore at least inside the investigative team and the prosecution to so the mystery that we're all sitting out there hungry for answers seems to be seems to be not so mysterious anymore to the people inside and I only say that based on the confidence to hear his voice and like I said he could be completely wrong on me may not know everything that's happening in the GBI investigation but we do no charges been filed we do know prosecutors intending to take this case to trial which you don't go to a grand jury unless you have evidence that you know can convict a guy you know beyond a reasonable doubt in front of the drills for the grand jury but a real job so you know there's a lot more evidence in this case that we not been told yet and the prosecution is trying to hold its cards close to the test case like this one out to the orchard and found nothing he doesn't say in the call doesn't he says we turned everything over to them but is that they actually found anything when he says we turned everything over could the figure could be the original statement from the depth and photographs of the search site you know a lot of things but doesn't mention what it is that they turned over but that's to me as an investigator would be beside the point the more interesting thing would've been I would think the GBI the point with this that somebody out there to re interview this guy can't wait to hear is We else was present how well you know this guy to go back and talk about it are you up you would do things like that as part of the investigation was also am not of you know maybe he was a confidential informant they want to give up his identity although a murder case usually put those things aside to come out what happened for church now the fact that they went back out to the orchard also could be doesn't necessarily mean it's as nefarious as my look I was on a forensic team and the FBI for many years and often we researched different places because you know sometimes forms particularly form Search is a tough landfill searches on top because it's so big and so many places to look they look in the wrong place you know they may have gotten information more recently that says Oh yeah you're right it was that on but was there because sometimes if you go too quick to replace look suspicious remember and make a murderer where you know that I think it was civilian to civilian women searchers I made a big deal I'll write to the car and they found you know the woman's called the victim's call and I like well yeah this whole huge multi acre yard with all these cars and within the first two hours of the search to go in the back and a right to wear car was found you know so now they're like Well maybe they knew the call was there maybe the cops come to direct them there so sometimes if you find it quick you are accused of something or you know it takes too long then there's another so you never really know until the light comes out so I've definitely been involved in searches where we've gone back and my dive team down the search one time we searched and searched and searched and we didn't find it and was a body in a fifty gallon drum and we could not understand why we couldn't find in this body of water was a big body of water but we kind and we knew where it was another search teams day police search team went and found it I was furious that they know they have got new information and was in the area we were searching two years later they found in a different area of that same body of water and we had an error we have searched you know that does happen sometimes so the results of that search ten years ago might have it for less than it might be the case where a um you know they went back now with more definitive information they may have had more specific look I don't know also you know like I said Look takes a question as well regardless of what they found it to define torture why didn't they go back to this person gave them the tip and they may have interviewed him or they may not have that's to me that's more interesting than what they may or may not have found an orchard because you know why didn't they this is a guy with this is only what a couple months after the disappearance and here's a guide telling you that he over hears this guy now has invested in my mind right goes ok we'll get you close it again a bar than another party we were ever is a ball field to put you close to the sky again and wouldn't you know trying to get him to talk about it again and so that's that's the investigative avenue I probably would have taken maybe his reasons they deny that I don't know about the guy was unwilling to do that you can't force somebody to do that may be fighting this guy's a murderer just burn somebody you know every kill them so it might be a lot of reasons why it's just a mystery right now that we just can't answer yeah me the big question to me is that the press covers the GBI said the Ryan Duke was never but here is a police officer saying that they win searched did the same ward for the search just a few months ago based on a tip the Ryan Dukes at a party that he killed her and this guy said that he gave that information to the GBI now he can write also be lying but you know who am I mean you know somebody was probably due to report on talking to the sky that I have talked to such and so and so on such and such a date he told me the fall and you write that down or report now just because you turn that reporter with the GI does not mean you don't retain a copy of that report so copy that report some workers to job would be in their syllabus was wreckage now it's obviously subject to the gag order as well probably soul that might come out later Mom and then then then you'll see why he was the other things to remember is that it's not good policy probably not bound by anything that a press conference so if they say he wasn't any wind up having been OK they lied to the public that's not now you'd want to know I'd prefer to know that there was a reason why a strategic reason why you would lie to the public about that um somebody just made a mistake or somebody didn't know he misspoke you know um and so they didn't know they you know this is clearly a half with a case like this a case like articles cold new people assigned to the case to prosecutors assigned to the case so not everybody gets up to speed or a hundred percent of the things now now that you have your prime suspect in custody you would know you would think that that's something you would know now how it could be something as simple as trying to avoid embarrassment that they should or that should've been on the radar so they want to say he wasn't whatever the case that hopefully will come out later on too once the trial is due on the gag orders lifted you know this is going to be a whole nother examination and so there's going to be two examinations hear me all what happened to Tara how it happened why it happened you know that's going to be the first one obviously the most important one you know and how if the person responsible is connected you know I mean so the second one is going to be you know how this all took place over the ten years so we're going to have to hopefully know um hopefully once the gag orders lifted will know what if anything was found what information was provided to a selected you die what she I then did with that information is just too many questions to speculate on a particular particular thing that Miami is probably half a dozen things I can think of that could be possibilities but none of them have any more credence than another because we just don't know the the the buying clothes can be super annoying and just flat out difficult he felt the pressure from the sales clerk maybe but the perfect outfit only to find out later that didn't fit his ten to eliminate that risk altogether using the tote The tote the fashion subscription box that says you brand name clothing accessories write your doorstep for one low monthly fee my wife Cassie been using the toe for a while now she loves in my most recent box I got a shirt that was great because I opened it at night not knowing I was in a way to work the next day and I just put that on more to the conference was really cute and there's that House of Harlow our bracelet that I love it's definitely one of my favorite things so little to tote the cause as L E T O T E the car to get started for as low as thirty nine dollars a month and use the promo code case at checkout to get fifty percent off your first order the full tote dot com promo code case she's surprising to me a little bit because gag orders are not common judges don't they issue gag orders in every case they certainly don't issue them in every murder case that has to be kind of an overriding reason on why you issue a gag order and that's going to be a whole nother interesting thing to know to examine is why the gag order because as many high profile cases that don't have gag orders placed on them and so it'll be interesting to see now once everything comes out once again orders lifted it might be obvious why there was a gag order but it's just not obvious now and it may not be obvious even after it's kind of a discretionary decision by the judge in all prosecutor may have said it could damage our case of some of these things are released early in the walkabout eventually passed but if it's in the public record anything subject to the water is also going to be subject to being disclosed at a later day later time so that's going to be an interesting thing to examine on how this whole thing about whether he was on their radar and he didn't have any previous criminal record it looks like certainly not a history of violence is some some of these guys do is the biggest fear in cases like this If is if somebody was on police radar ten years ago and wasn't properly investigated and Clay arrested and then he goes on to hurt other people in the interim those preceding ten years that's that's unacceptable rate I don't know what Ryan do what he's dealt to the last ten years doesn't seem to have a long violent history so you hope that's not the case because that's that's the worst thing that can happen when mistakes or incompetence or corruption on a farm and hinders investigation the worst possible outcome is that additional victims created additional victims suffer because of that lack of competence and corruption or whatever it is just honest mistakes whatever so you know hopefully that didn't happen in this case what qualifies as corruption versus just incompetence in general a difference between corruption and incompetence is corruption is action taken to benefit someone for their own benefit or the benefit of someone else home where his incompetence is simply that is simply you're just not good enough job you just making mistakes you just incompetent but corruption is where you take action sometimes that looks like a mistake looks like a cop it but it's actually taken to benefit either yourself or someone else to cover up someone yourself or someone else's family member friend their criminal activity or something so that's the general difference between corruption and incompetence no wrong incompetence does obviously help the person that doesn't get arrested because of the mistakes that are made that's not the intent of the actor the person who did or didn't do the thing that we're talking about but it's the intent so somebody intentionally hides evidence covers of evidence destroys evidence whatever to benefit themselves or someone else that's generally viewed as as corruption corruption has to have that as of two things that has to have it and has the benefit has to be intentional and has the benefit so those are the two things you generally look at in corruption cases and the benefit could be monetary it could be avoiding detection is a criminal could be a lot of different things that benefit is not always you know dollars and cents and benefit isn't always clear you know sometimes but that's generally the difference and the outcome could be the same you can have somebody who's corrupt and cover something up to help somebody avoid getting arrested for something or you can have someone who kanna just even it on a steak or is just so that the job that same person doesn't get arrested for crime so the end result sometimes the same but the difference is that corruption is the legal adage of crime and you should go to jail for it whereas incompetence you know does not really a statue for it there's probably lose your job over it if the if the results are if you can't be re trained or something like that but it's not it's not generally considered criminal in nature whereas corruption you know what you're doing you're intending to do it you have the intention of taking these actions to help yourself or someone else benefit normally that if it includes corruption cases usually benefit financially or benefit from someone not getting arrested for something what do you think happened here yeah it's it's hard to say it doesn't seem to me it skews a little more towards incompetence and corruption because if we go on the premise that you know Ryan Duke was told the GBI early on as a person of interest from was still a PB you know and now Ryan is in custody for this murder if any corruption took place to help them it certainly didn't help and eventually a long run it might help them maybe stay out for ten years but it obviously caught up with the middle and so therefore because the guy ends up in custody it skews to me if it has to be one of the other in this case it skews towards the incompetence end of the scale but that's not to say I'm not I'm not even saying that it is just not enough facts to draw those conclusions but generally overall in what you've told me what I really look that red on the case there has to be after the prosecution of this case if they get a conviction I think you're past the open discussion and examination by GBI and oh so uppity about how this investigation carried out that's a good thing because it's always good to examine your policies because you can see if you can do a job that you can say look you know drop of oil to leak out the possible issue in jail ten years ago but he's in jail now for the rest of life maybe whatever and we've learned from this and what ever works out better you know the kind of thing and that's hopefully the best possible outcome that could come out of it because even in my investigations you know after successful prosecution back and said Is there anything better more the bad guys in jail and a quick learner and I got whatever better evidence or whatever but she always finally happening I mean I never had a case obviously go ten years but I have investigated co cases of guys come along and he puts it the freshies on it and so I guess it's just going to be very interesting to see how things play out during the course of this pre trial hearing that right now in the trial phase and then this story is not going to hand with the jury's verdict the story's going to obviously live on because there's going to be a whole lot of questions whether or not the jury come back or conviction of Ryan Duke are not going to all our questions the need to be answered about this case long after the jury finishes delivering whenever that happens he is calm in the in small towns it's a lot more difficult to solve a murder with how close everyone is and yes the of resources yeah I could be you sometimes it is that sometimes it's the opposite sometimes it's everybody each other yeah I would say that sometimes more difficult it could be less difficult but Nathan and I did some more difficult because everybody knows each other and everybody's people can be scared people could be you know to live there their or their families have to live there like that so small town you sometimes now you suspect cool down quickly but then you then kind of come to that and he hit a brick wall because of the relationships that happen in that town the GBI would have like almost every other large law enforcement organization probably not kill a deer or something like that are most of the smaller firms although they all have internal affairs bureau stolen from an internal affairs divisions on sometimes they're quite small sometimes they're quite large sometimes they're proactive and sometimes there are less reactive really want to get so we would expect that if an allegation like this came to light which were already talking about it then they should obviously know about these allegations and their inter whatever internal affairs mechanism that they have in their agency should be handling the new hiring if your poster job to get the best candidate recruiter you put your job to one hundred plus job sites with just one click their powerful technology efficiently matches the right people to your job better than anyone else that's why zipper gooders different unlike other job sites zip recruiter and a pin oak and is finding you find them in fact over eighty percent of jobs posted on the poker qualify candidates in just twenty four hours no more daily emails or calls your office the screen rape kit is all in one place easy to use dashboard find out today was the book has been used by businesses of all sizes to find the most qualified job candidates with immediate results right now to compose job unzip recruiter for free just go in a Ziploc or duck calm flash case case evidence that simple cuter dog calm flash case to a non butcher job for free zip recruiter recruiter dock on Flash case a fifty six field offices so every FBI office as a public corruption unit so the Atlanta division which would cover this and there might be the most smaller what we call resonate in your satellite office out of Atlanta that's closer to a still a mom that would be like their geographic now that that small office may not always have the manpower to do it but it certainly would be a public corruption unit of the FBI back in Atlanta at the field to field or quarters who then would probably call over to G I's Internal Affairs Bureau because they know they probably have ongoing cases that they work together because when you work similar violations you often know who's who in your counterpart agencies so I'm sure if I was an agent's a warping and public corruption which also you know the question is the broader term right but also encompasses you know police cautioned that if I was on the public corruption squad I would probably know who was my counterpart working public corruption in the state police in Da Da the other federal agencies because things kind of crossover so they would probably pick up the phone and call GI and say Hey you know you aware of this allegation or are you aware that his suffering on the matter somebody called in because we're getting it and want to know if you guys have something because I get a response saying well aware of it we've got people working on it wouldn't bring it out whatever and the FBI would kind of his games on it but not sort of peril investigation there's no doesn't make sense to do that they're the best position to save the capture of guys right and so if he was in the case if they like now we hear about this well then we would call their people and we have a joint meeting and working jointly with the FBI could could open it up themselves if they can win one of the reasons you have those preexisting relationship is that if you feel like this is something we may not want to bring to them knowing they want to stay looking as ourselves you would know that from your relationships with that whether or not to watch us work on that level that's when you have pre existing relationships your job is to know the landscape is at that age and know they have a really good internal affairs with a lot of integrity we can just go to them or you might know that no longer get their ID because I don't trust those guys something to them two years ago and a couple of whatever so they would know that the case is either find it hard to believe that maybe I would just sit on it particularly since they have two guys in custody have a prosecutor somewhere who's preparing for trial of preparing to some kind of court proceedings and prosecutors and they won every darn piece of evidence that they can possibly throw if you've got you know under ten percent of the information they need for a conviction they wanted fifty percent they always want more comfortable so some prosecutors but is going to be online for a judge because these guys in custody so you have a speedy trial constitutional rights to this certain timelines have to be met so they're going to have to be moving along on these cases the hearings that has a pretrial hearing the trial date stat and stuff so they're going to want to know they are not going to pray that the prosecutor's office was ever going to be the state's attorney or your local district attorney or something I want to get to the bottom of this allegation if there's any evidence in this case that could be jeopardized or compromised or maybe there's something they don't even know about they'll get word of it and I was about it because when you have somebody in custody when you make that arrest the clock starts ticking and you have to start meeting certain deadlines and their constitutional provisions that kick and speedy trial rules and stuff you can just keep people in custody without moving along at certain place and a judge is going to be asking the prosecution you know you were to go to trial so it's going to be going to be multiple
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