DiscoverVox's The WeedsInauguration Special

Inauguration Special

Update: 2017-01-21
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Shortly after the inauguration ceremonies ended, Ezra, Matt, and Sarah gathered to analyze what it all means in the first Trump-era Weeds episode.

Following script is auto-generated by Speech to Text Technology:

the following podcast contains explicit language and welcome the chance for a the Hello welcome to another boxes policy podcast apparently network m at Medical ACS with my colleague Sara Clifton Ezra Klein as usual coming to you from the first podcast of down trumps America American carnage a special edition podcast carnage the city is in a bit of a guess a small state of karma yet it does not know carnage yellow card at the time were talking there gas on the streets isn't huge protests but I believe about a hundred people have been arrested there were couple of injuries including among police who were hit by things people throwing some tear gassing for gunfire in this broken windows there's also a presidential today heard about math and physics were connected I should say yes they were actually protesting the new the new president I don't the who's unlikely rise to the presidency has been the subject of some previous discussion on the weeds but I'd go back and listen so what do you guys think of the inaugural address here I have a lot of thoughts from is off in characterized in terms of his lack of discipline this speech know was like in some ways the opposite that right there Trump theory of the election which was that you could get white working class northerners to vote for the Republican Party in larger numbers than had been the case traditionally if Donald Trump distanced himself from the institutional Republican Party and strongly emphasize themes of American economic nationalism and Law and Order and Law and Order that theory proved true in particularly the fact that I've lost the popular vote that makes it proves like doubly true I think sometimes I will because someone like his finger on the pulse of the American people and stuff but that's all wrong he lost a pot of money lost quite badly but that actually shows how well done the demographic targeting what it was a crucial constituency of people white working class people in the Midwest who really really really like this message and I think Democrats may have even forgotten how many dollops of that message they use to put in to their kinds of speeches and we're not prepared to be sort of like out and he outsourced the way that they were calm and he just like stuck with it right I mean it was like if he was giving a rally in Michigan in the week before the election this is what he would have said and he's being inaugurated and it's what he said he was like precisely on target for the common theory of the electorate there lot of other things you could have conceivably tried to do and he didn't try but there is a group of people who put him in the White House and he delivered a message right for them I think that's because he didn't he didn't talk about Obamacare he didn't do anything to reach out to people who are potentially unnerved by him he's doing this very low approval ratings what's your take on that piece a bit surprised at how strange it felt like Matt was saying that I think we've got make you sick from going off the rails that and say I felt like an inauguration that kind of like her and it would not involve crazy to me to hear someone else give this another SN and buy something you disagree with me so it's why things have felt quite familiar it to me was that the rhetoric of the speech does not line up with the can where things are policy wise anything that is kind of like how I think about the fact Obamacare was not there all end in a way that sounds familiar that a lot of times I feel like anything is unlike Mattson about Dylan wrote of his fur are upset about today that they are often in a lot of the Trump rhetoric to say does not match up in any to the actual policy is that he is pursuing today he talked alot about returning wealth to people and improving the country but when you look at his actual policies of what we see in Whitehouse dot gov so far it's quite different than it felt like this was quite different from easy he's again and again said Oh here's my number priority like me this points out clearly and in the speech there was nowhere to be founded discussion at all of that and that's the only really familiar to me as a policy reporter in the trunk era like a really big disconnect between what comes up in his address is and what is actually happening like in the policy proposals he does put out in like the actual world of legislating that they seem like they're two totally separate people and running two totally separate theories of government and strategies of legislating I mean that way you and I were talking earlier today about it you'll love and peace it was published in The National Review about the Obamacare fight and not to dive in Obamacare but his interesting thing where he talks about the difference between what Trump is saying publicly and what his staffers are doing privately and he says and I may get this wrong for memory this is from staff is cutting a very different figure than Donald Trump himself and apparently the idea among a lot of Republicans right now is to sort of ignore what Trump is saying and just assume that his staff is really rich is thinking about their easy prey the talk but when the speech before before going into that this is a very dark speech this was a very midnight in America speech and I will say that what I was surprised how little effort was made to reach out at all I've ever sit on the podcast before I don't think it would be difficult for Trump to be at a much higher approval rating I don't think it would be difficult for him to have a couple of paragraphs in the speech that would have been friendlier to the folks who are concerned about his inauguration I think the bar for him to reach out right now is very low and he did not take it the other is that I often find Trump at his least effective when he is at his most scripted speeches that is populist in an interesting way but it was without trumps carnival atmosphere without his he's very funny he's very good on the stump he's got a really good except for a new style he he's a little light in a very dark speech is what he did in his rallies why Israelis were fun to go to his interesting when he's doing that and when you take all that stuff out of this happened I thought it is convention to convention did not at a polling particularly well it's not that I think the speech is going to be some kind of public disaster I don't think by any means it was a disaster but when you sever Trump from his sort of idiosyncratic reality TV show dimension and it's just his incredibly grim vision of the state of the country I find it very heavy I'll be curious to see if it's something that works on people in a broader sense to me was interesting is you know all politicians I think presidents especially have certain amount of division of labor in their demonstration where there group of people who works on speeches and there's another group of people who works on like talking to members of Congress about what's up and try it seems really committing to the idea that those universes can proceed really I'm like totally totally separate tracks and the like are some credit where due and that I do is true if you look like an adequately cold I at the Obama administration nor congressional Democrats you will often see this thing that they tried it with there's a provision and in action and saves a Parisian but in the corporate income tax code business can deduct expenses from income than the costs of doing business so one might incur expenses is if you close down a factory and relocate production to another country there would be some expenses associated with closing that factory down so companies deduct that from the tax bill the way we did at any other kind of expense Democrats have for as long as I've been involved in politics characterize this as tax breaks for companies that ship jobs overseas which is I think a pretty abusive characterization of what's going on and then they hung on that characterization like a lot of a lot of rhetoric you know I would today about Brock Obama as an inclusive vision of America and I went back and I was rereading his his two thousand and four convention address which I think is mostly dedicated to articulating Barak Obama is inclusive vision of America but there is little thing in there about tax breaks for companies that ship jobs overseas which was like a constant refrain of John Kerry's campaign of congressional Democrats in two thousand sinks as it turns out when Democrats had major for two years they somehow seem to have not gotten rid of these tax breaks perhaps to have something that Obama can again talk about one's Republicans to Congress like if he really to close this very minute loop alright if you really believe that like the key to rebuilding American industry was eliminating this possibility from the corporate income tax code found in a bargain with Paul Ryan about why he didn't write I mean this was real thing the Democrats have been bullshitting about for like a long time but they've been in this weird democratic kind of way they've been totally bullshitting about it but also really on maintaining the policy provision right and I think think the true proposition is like what if you went beyond that right like who in the world even understands the relationship between that rhetoric about companies shipping jobs and corporate income tax accounting write like why not just live like you're going like when i jus lie and I think that like Trump has always gotten really far in life by lying to people and spend like integral to his his business processes been to like say he's going to pay you for this and he doesn't think it could work you know if you have a credible legislative affairs staff who Paul Ryan and other people in the hell you believe those guys your speeches can just say something else well as Army's case against language from the very that some women this is the point where catches up to you right leg and sit somewhere to start actually legislate like this has become like a clear to me like the health care says that Donald Trump spent an entire campaign talking about how he's going to cover everybody he's not going to let street and people please the voters I talked to the league voted on that they thought that was true they thought that was Donald Trump's after planned to use Obamacare and they expected him to come up with something that was going to be just as comprehensive even if not more are we just were as a no resemblance to his camp a proposal I think it's some point in the fields were getting to the point right now is that when the lying actually catches up with you when you actually have to pass a law doesn't propose and make proposals that will really show where your policy is shaped like that's Congress's I mean I as we discussed in previous episodes right like congressional Republicans are going to have some difficulty like finding a single piece of legislation that they all want to go for the die if they do and some can sign it and if they don't then they don't like it doesn't seem like Donald Trump has a problem I think he does will see but this morning and have a thing about this last couple days something that was very unique about Donald Trump at the presidential level was that he was able to run without a political record that people could hold him to do exactly the point you're making that couldn't how long record and have of that rhetoric over the course of her record and also the single most effective attack chum with Levy at Clinton was this Well you've been around thirty years and you haven't fixed it and people like Yeah you have been around thirty years and you haven't fixed it and now Trump is going to be in this position where instead of people looking at him as a change agent they're going to be looking at him it actually change things and have made good on changing things and when they do that he's going to have something to show for it when he says at the end of the campaign and Matt you are one reminded me this today this is your last chance to achieve every dream you've ever dream for your country that does seem like a bed the diva does that make America great stuff he is somebody who people thought he doesn't have appropriate experience and it turned out to be a candidate he did people not recognize how an air of cable news and dissent are mediated communication for social networks the experience TV star who is a really skillful at keeping the attention focused on him actually was really relevant to running a campaign but governing is very different governing is difficult this is a place where I think that one reason politicians trying to lie outright Lee is because then you end up having to tax levy that are ways that are complicated and he's got to find a thing some way for people to not view him as a total fraud could be the case that people just don't care one thing that is interesting about Trump is a certain shameless ness about him and the reason find it fascinating is that one of the questions I think it has raised at least for me is whether the thing that hurts politicians is when they get caught lying and doing something wrong or when they admit that they've been caught lying and doing something wrong Trump often will get a Hakka and in a place for normal politician would fold he just won't he will just fight back and refusing on the offensive I think sometimes about during the campaign I remember there was a thing as an NBC form and this is what I think Matt Lauer ran it because you know what I'm talking about in the first seven questions were some version of What about your emails Hillary Clinton because Hillary Clinton had taken the stance of I did do something wrong I'm sorry about that every time she had to admit that she done something wrong and she was agreeing and Matt Lauer is agreeing disagreeing it was bad and then you're in trouble come out of whatever and not lie I think he did it but others would say Well you've your support for the record no I didn't and he always created the fight around him and so maybe it's true maybe you do not get caught for lying in politics you only get caught for only bad for you if you allow that to be besides agreeing that what you did her something else going on and I don't fully know what it is like I think to the whole ground by the posse and cement where he did get to nationals of us and he said this wasn't appropriate language that the one positively didn't seem to many of you think overloaded the rest of the stuff but even when Lehi has been caught in this case like saying something that he agreed he would later say like this was inappropriate that didn't really seem to matter much away I thought was maybe like campaign and a lot of people that would be a thing down and I think that was the Office of the did hurt him and I think in part because if you remember like a bunch of Republicans withdrew their endorsements right then I think part of it was because he wasn't creating a fight over it created space for a lot of misgivings about him to erupt it didn't campaign and right like I agree that it should of but I think there's more to it than that but also I didn't results matter in politics I'm just much they matter in the particular as opposed to the general so it's like if Donald Trump takes office and there is a recession of any kind in the year of the twenty twenty election whether it is because of his policies or not he is probably going to lose a twenty twenty election and there's a boom of any kind like I think irrelevant to whether or not he has been keeping up with his promises are going to win the twenty twenty election so you can escape reality if he started a disastrous war for no reason in their body bags and people hate it leave now communicate that but they may be that you don't have to be super super faithful actually doing in your public communication I am a fundamentals guy I don't want to say that like external reality but I do think the question of why Jews like the legislative results matter a lot of our conventional wisdom about the presidency write a lot of like what I have read in books about the presidency and about effectiveness and models that work or don't work base in the assumption that the president has a sort of a proper motive for having become president that perhaps mistakenly that the president has a vision for the country that he wants to move toward and so the success or failure is determined by like the Delta between the status quo and where that that's where we get ideas like Bill Clinton's first chief of staff was in effect right or JFK is fondly remembered but didn't get much done as a president but I don't believe that Donald Trump particularly cares how effective dollars from B is at implementing what we might say there's a Mike Pence side of Donald Trump and is also a Steve and inside of Donald Trump and I don't think Donald Trump cares about either of those age and right and if he misses some of those things are fine if he doesn't also find he has an objective to maintain an adequate level of institutional support from congressional Republicans right which means I don't think he can just jet ace in their agenda but he can clearly he clearly feels confident that had this point he can stand up and deliver a high profile speech that literally does not mention any of House Republicans key legislative priorities and they will not complain about right to be a different situation if the way we thought the world worked was that after giving a speech like that Jeff Hanson Lane would be featured on Fox News saying I'm really disappointed that the president didn't talk about core conservative priorities and then Bill O'Reilly and other conservative pundits would you show who is more about how terrible address was right but there is not that kind of jumpy slide and jumping is does not exist in major conservative media and it doesn't exist in the caucus meeting nervousness wide but like famously Democrats are erotic right in like anytime anything happens when Brock Obama was present when Hillary Clinton was a candidate will immediately be likely be prominent to eat inside ideological center left circles like taking plays out in public it's like Is this a huge betrayal is she blowing it and at the moment at least Trump has mastery over his movement right and everything is celebratory and he wants to strike a populist tone everyone talks about what a striking populist only was he got is that like effective in a traditional sense I have I don't think that matters right now of course if the country is in recession than you know what's going to say but he's okay now if the economy just sort of continues to putter along but from starts talking about how now is awesome because blue lives matter it just it seems to me that can be good at the same time that those folks were not criticizing the speech for not having enough in traditional public and concerns I thought one of the really fascinating things that happened was during the speech the transition of Whitehouse taco from being President Obama's website to president trumps website happened and they have an issues page and the issues page only has six things on it is America First Energy Plan America First foreign policy bringing back jobs in growth making our military strong again interestingly standing up for law enforcement community and trade bills working for all Americans and with the exception of the trade plank if you read these issues it's pretty standard issue conservative problem is a problem it's standard issue conservative ideas the anything is interesting though because it is a very conservative like climate change is a great deal of oil companies but it's call a mare I first read it it's a striking new branding sales and this one thought was fascinating because here you have in the official channel from Brighton this is the staffer in channel is I think the pants side of Trump it just looks with some Trump the branding like a plan they got from the Heritage Foundation plus the law enforcement piece of it meanwhile his speech was a whole other thing and this really is and what the ambiance to hear you expound on the bet is you have real doubts that Levin who are suggesting that you can manage Trump by just letting him say what he wants and then assuming he will do what his conservative staff ends up recommending that he does but I think you think that's not true I think that you can muddle through that way don't resign so if Iverson before correctly this idea that people have the can cut one deal with from staff and the twitch from kind of thing since as other doesn't matter my senses are skeptical that it seems very odd to me that you can just decide that of the positive side all what he's saying that is doesn't matter and it seems implausible like this the first didn't surprise me is his or her mother was at it there's just no health care oh hell I just sound like as I went into the website I searched for Obamacare there's not a single word about Obamacare on White House job as of late three pm on Friday there's not a single mention of the phrase Affordable Care Act on Whitehouse dot gov which is a little surprising given that President Donald Trump has said his item is repealing the Affordable Care Act so that was a bit surprising I expected as something where Mimi was absent in the speech that the other thing on the website those kind of like Ram from heritage campaign website about health care I terms of what his role is and all of this it seems he wants to insert himself into the it's not just reading about it but he's been giving so many interviews interviews at CEOs to Washington pose Stu thierties or his is like going out there like making his thoughts known except in the bar entrance for everyone and I actually am starting to think I'll be reading about this more next week Lake conservative health policy ends up kind of bending and kind of interesting ways towards the ideals that Trump is setting I think there's a desire to set aside when he is doing but it's hard to do when he is now leader of your party and President United States and I think you'll see for example I am with this idea of auto enrollment which is kind of a delicacy here in Havasu they can talk to some senators like Senator Cassidy from the Zen about it but never like help on and all is and what I do enrollment is basically signing on to and the Republican health care plans but it is you basically get a very basic plan that cost the exact same amount as the tax credit and you enroll people into that and that is actually it seems like the way you could get towards this promise that downtown is made of coverage for everyone I knew people automatically those that we are the figures that say I was there was a public option right so he we do not know the mechanisms like some people I talk is of the city Medicaid is unclear how exactly his works but is an idea and something I came across a few months ago wasn't getting much attention was like all this was a mean like it's not the hottest thing in the world like all this buzz in health policy circles around the idea motorhome and an economy that something was exploring it is comfortable that Trump is talking about to say it feels like he is as much as they may not be involved directly in these negotiations like what he says it matters it matters because he's the president say to hear their public and party this really is and now I know I mean to me to paint toward Obamacare repeal all ending in some kind of slightly embarrassing model on Capitol Hill way I think is going to be challenging to come up with a plan that meets those kind of goals that enough Republicans are actually excited about voting for to make it worth doing what it's like a kind of like an intellectual exercise like Can we come up with a plan that meets these coverage goals but also is cheaper and probably some clever wonks can but like the Democrats found writing Affordable Care Act Right is it's it's hard to write a concrete law gets tons of people to all go vote for it because people's opinions differ and it's very complicated his life of a moving party it's hard to deliver on concrete promise you like your health insurance even if we use in that Obamacare passed is that a lot of members of Congress like people like Bernie Sanders right when fairly fundamental philosophical disagreements with that legislation voted for it anyway and because they cared enough about the sort of underlying issue that they were willing to vote for a bill that was Esau later his campaign was actually quite disparaging about the system that it set up but he feels passionately about coverage and I just don't in congressional Republican ranks like that level of interest in the underlying thing that will get you to write a bill right and it's like some people's idea of what a good bill is and the necessarily a bunch of other people's idea of like a not so good bell and you need people to like go vote for the not so good bill and I think that's a high high bar to clear his family were Republicans on their heads and receive from Trump like not putting the sun's website happening in speech is also not like the president is actually going out there like yelling at people like a man I gotta get on board for the Trump care right I mean he seems I mean I I take that sort of bullet points on the website added Sam his face value I don't like is definitely and want some kind of big tax cut he's definitely want some big energy deregulation and he's going to do something on trade I think he's happy to do other stuff if Congress wants to but is hard to like herding cats up there and he's going to be that cat herder let me ask one question brings back a James inaugural the time cares about me for a surprise that the speech didn't make more of an effort being conciliatory there's been all I know Trump is treating and we talked about this and he doesn't believe the polls but people around him believe polls and he we now have a slew of polls suggesting he's in the high thirties low forties which is really bad at this juncture this was a speech that was very core to the bases was a speech it was really about his people and yet actually this fascinating line in there we talked about the forgotten man and woman and how you have Washington now and they will never forget you again and you were the people created this movement is very much you describing not the American people but that run support us and do you think that there's a theory here that they just kind of have to write off the folks who are on the political divide from them the dishes too far gone and the thing to do is really focus on the intensity of the supporters anything just like their intuition do think that I'm misreading it this is something that I thought I might see more of in the speech and it was really wasn't there and something that is traditionally in his speech right guy Alvin Chang one of our partners here it is good he is re read every inauguration from Washington but actually turns out there's a formula we have over two hundred years and part of it is like this call to unity so in that way kind of surprising in that lake is such a traditional part of the inauguration for centuries now do the super surprising to me watching it again felt like a tram seats it felt like it
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Inauguration Special