DiscoverUp and VanishedQ&A with Payne Lindsey and Philip Holloway 04.13.17

Q&A with Payne Lindsey and Philip Holloway 04.13.17

Update: 2017-04-142


Payne Lindsey and Philip Holloway answer your questions from our Voicemail line and from social media. Have a question? Call us at 770-545-6411.

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the hallway are coming in just a mentally breaking down with you some breaking news Ryan dew has been charged by the grand jury in the Irwin County Superior Court with defense of malice murder as bad as it gets along with felony murder aggravated assault burglary conceal and then we'll be breaking that down answering your questions coming in the er can you just summarize in layman's terms what actually happened yesterday on April twelve so the weight were typically is very non ceremonial in nature basically grand juries convened and they're going to hear other cases besides this when they are all placed under the district attorney who runs the show the district attorney is by law the legal advisor to the grand jury but nobody's present in the grand deliberate basically the district attorney drafts of this document the bill of indictment and calls a witness or witnesses in this case it appears from the face of the indictment that they just brought in one witness the case investigator nation Chanel from TBI and its appears that that was the only witness and that doesn't surprise me that is usually only one witness in the majority right of these types of things and they basically ran for the DA's questions and they can answer questions if any are asked by the grand jurors and then the district attorney and the witness leave the room in the Granger a deliberate and they decide whether or not there's probable cause so basically what's happened is the term of court has started for the upcoming term in the Irwin County Superior Court in the grand jurors have met and with one exception the entire current grand jury for this term participated they selected the four person and an assistant for person and they started hearing some cases and one of the ones they heard of course the state of Georgia versus Ryan do and they issued what's called a true bill which means the grand jury found that there was probable cause to believe that on October twenty third two thousand Ryan Alexander do committed the offence of malice murder and malice is a type of criminal intent is something more intention it's more like an evil ness that goes along with that doesn't mean that service pre meditated for a long period of time malice of forethought can be something that occurs in an instant and it doesn't have to be like he planned out for a week or two we could've been something that literally he decided to do instantaneously moments before he did it lately and count to the charge with felony murder and they also charged with felony murder in count three felony murder is still murder and it carries the same potential penalties as malice murder but is little bit different because it doesn't require malice what it's based on is a person who dies irrespective of malice when someone is committing another felony offense in this case the first underlying felony aggravated assault and alleges that he used his hand an object which when used offensively against a person did result in serious bodily injury aggravated assault thereby causing the death of tariff a grandstand so that's the first way is an alternative theory of criminal liability for felony murder underlying felony being burglary so they're saying that he committed those two separate and distinct felony offenses and as result of committing those offenses and calls her death so that's the difference between malice murder felony murder so wait are they saying that this was a burglary he was there to burglarized the place it on as recently as fifteen burglary and robbery or the saying was he was he going to steal something or what they alleged in count five that he didn't commit the offense of burglary they always have to charge the underlying felonies separately along with the felony murder charge so that's why you don't count for being irate assault count file being a bird when they do allege that he was there unlawfully in the inner her home with the intention of committing a theft it's possible that they know that he was there to do other things but elected not to charge that but as charged they're alleging that this is a apparently a garden variety type burglary involving someone house and intending to steal from that house now let me take just a minute and talk to you about burglary burglary could be something as simple as I decide to go to your house pain we're not there and I walk in and when i walk n my intention when I have of the steal your laptop and I decide wait a minute a nice guy not to steal his laptop monetarily well the burger is already complete the moment the inner without authority your residence with that in tension in my head doesn't matter if actually do it under the law all the burglaries complete the moment that inner your home so this alleges that he went into her house with the intention of committing a fat and so that is what they're saying happened could be the intention of being theft threat in the way if you enter inside a location without a forty with the intention of committing a felony or theft you're guilty of burglary so if you enter into someone's home with the intention of committing a felony burglary in with the intention of committing assault like they've alleged in this indictment guilty of burglary if you enter with the intention of committing forgery or any other felony criminal offense committed the offense of burglary so does unless I have to be theft there could've been a more nefarious intentions maybe if they knew about one maybe they decided to leave it just leave it doesn't exist but what they've chosen to proceed with a for sure or is the narrative that it was a garden variety burglary now of course the Agnes all they say that he entered with the intention of committing aggravated saw there are many ways that you can commit aggravated assault you can commit assault with a deadly weapon or with an object which might otherwise be in the non logic like your hand is not necessarily an offensive weapon that can be used that way one thing about this indictment that stands out to be if I were going to try to defend against this one challenge I might make to this and I think super strong argument for it is that it doesn't sufficiently in my view say the hand was used in a way that was likely to cause serious injury or death the indictment needs to sufficiently put someone all knowledge of what they have to defend against and if I'm reading this indictment is Ryan Dukes attorney I'm not actually put on notice what I have to defend against I mean did he choke her with his handy here multiple times with his hand we just don't know from reading this and I have seen a lot of indictments alleged felony murder based on Agnes all the seal on aggravated assault and violence have drafted a lot of when I was a prosecutor and we were trained that we always need to be little more specific when we're talking about items other than like a firearm that is typically considered a deadly weapon if you talk about a nine item like a hand or a lamp post or anything like that you can and need to give some more specificity by saying you know using his hand to call her death to wit dear to choke her to death or something along those lines because this really doesn't say how he used the hand cause the death that this indictment is much better in its wording in the warrants for this indictment tracks the language of the relevant statutes it hits all the elements of the offenses alleged is important to remember that indictment is not evidence an indictment is simply a formal charging document that replaces the arrest warrants and if there is a trial or plead or anything happens in court to resolve this case they have to to base that on this new charging document because supersedes anything else it does and the offense of malice murder now the things we talk about right after the arrest we saw the warrants was well he committed an aggravated assault as an intentional act and I wondered out loud I think on the podcast why they didn't charge malice murder in the war and it was not very clear but used the words intention and things like that it did not use the legal which is malice which is similar but means something entirely different now and start back answering questions people actually called in to the voicemail which is seven seven zero five four five six four one one to freeze that the future now will answer some actual list are questions I pull the show in the hair the whole are very warm air will do if the Nazis we weren't trying how did you recently get in to her question basically is is how they the jury for such a small county and I think the obvious answer is there not enough to get a jury of this case would go to trial a jury for murder one count on there's been so much widespread and pervasive publicity which is course was the reason for the podcast of the reason of the gag order that is not going to be anybody that probably doesn't have some opinion about the case already and everybody I've talked to in the legal community's it's almost unanimous in everybody's confident that they would need to move the trial outside of Irwin County to some other jurisdiction that may not have heard so much about it or have formed opinions about it now it's important to recognize that and defend the charge of the crime has a constitutional right in the state of Georgia to be tried in the county and have a jury picked from the county where the crime allegedly occurred the request for change of venue must come from the defendant and it would mean that they would waive their right to have a trial in that county think it would be virtually impossible is the case would be tried I have my own reservations about whether or not it's actually going to go to trial my personal belief is that it will not but if it does have to be moved and I love that calling yes my question is regarding on the glass that you talked about that conversation that you supposedly had with me online my question is how the offices of composition or any other conversation he had in fact a future trial related to hand around you say that the intern as evidence or with fact and prior statement for a few where the body of the corroborated that was you that made the statement of his threes against you in court then they will bring an end and if a criminal defendant makes a statement to a third party hearsay by definition can come in the person said in a quarter of its core setting anything that said in any capacity could be electronic you could be on Facebook or on Twitter or text message or can be verbal anything that you say is if it matters in the case can be used against you I think that answers the question is pretty clear that anything that either one of these defendants may have set against their own interests could cause him some very serious problems Dale Jarrett the great state of Ohio my question with all that being invited with if he was found guilty all charges would be the maximum sentence of punishment for those crimes and is it possible that he would be or what things are this guy's voice is a question only charges in the night except for concealing and then there was a trial he was found guilty of everything all of the charges in the case other than instilling in them would I think merge that is being absorbed into the malice murder charge and that counts count one the maximum penalty would be death the minimum penalty if convicted would be life with the possibility of parole is a middle ground which is life without parole they'll judge can always tackle a consecutive sentence for concealing a death of ten years so we're looking at potentially a life sentence or death plus ten years if there is such a thing now the DA has said that they're seeking the death penalty I personally believe that you could make the case this would qualify for the family I personally don't believe they will be seeking the death penalty but even if all the other charges or absorbed into count one and he simply sat on that he's looking at least a life sentence with the possibility of parole of course that's assuming alive role in Georgia doesn't mean what use to you has served thirty something years before even entitled to be considered for parole so a life sentence even with the possibility of parole is a very very long time and the National I love it in a great job at their heart and his body or involved in the case anyway surely there is no way that he had money and buy it in my opinion and out of that really sent you and wondering where we don't know what stipulations of the maybe to the with them on was not all think those going to be getting money I think that's a fair conclusion whether it wants to anybody else may be entitled to it is an open question because we don't know the parameters of who's entitled to collect or what the conditions might be a lot of times these cases wind up in litigation if someone believes are entitle to reward is not granted in the court case follows I'm fairly confident very comfy as matter of fact those not in the Clinton warned me about the trial calls her to several podcasts that there would be that round as it possibly bankrupt as the love that my question is What is the extreme expenditures for trial that to possibly have that much cause I actually almost bankrupt some local small town the podcast thing every time you move the trial from one jurisdiction to another and we just saw this not too long ago in Georgia in the hot car death trial of Justin Ross Harris was removed from Kak Ani Brunswick and amusing that is the most recent example of a new trial in Georgia you know you've gotta put up the judge in a hotel for as long as the trial takes maybe it takes a couple weeks maybe three the defense team the prosecutor she got to get all the evidence moved the jurors would come from the local jurisdiction where the trials move to basically everybody involved in the trial from the Irwin County Court Judge Irwin County DA his staff his investigators they all have to they have to be put up in hotels corps reporters have to go defense team the public defender any my working with him has to go you get security costs because if you move it to another county in that other county jail has to hold an inmate the ball to another county to another county to house an inmate security costs lots of things that people think about the trial is a very complicated machine and is a lot of moving parts to it and basically take everything a new UN planet transplant knew you replay it could be hundreds of miles away and there's just a lot of extraneous expenses that people oftentimes overlooked but suffice to say is considerably higher costs associated with a move to trial than one that takes place where it occurred to me the question the battle for the embezzlement charge is that something that would qualify being a barricaded in a leading protests against the glove or was that I require him to give a DNA sample thanks so much that they would most likely take his DNA taken his fingerprints and those types of things would go into the electronic databases one for the fingerprint one for the DNA and if they have any DNA they compare it to the max and they can they can make that match but they also can try to rule somebody out as being places well but due to rule for is to rule them out as being a location based on the existence or non existence of either one of those items the the fashion should not have to cost you a fortune with the tote you can wrench or look to get new clothes every single day you can get to seven hundred dollars for the clothing for only thirty nine bucks a month yes thirty nine bucks a month my wife is always completed the shopping for clothes but she loves new clothes for the past month has been using the tote to upgrade or wardrobe the cause and the vet techs the antibody the middle of the shop I hate at the shop we got the loveliest that's the way to do that once worked for the good of the toe Dakar to stall your style profile and sign up to get a custom tote delivered right to your door then you can wear what you want to return everything in the mail when you're done a few days later you get a new box right now they have a special offer for up and best listeners use the promo code banished to get fifty percent off your first month together to try to tote dot com promo code vanished these are the Twitter questions and Facebook questions and some questions from adv in Gagne doesn't that mean that there will be a trial by jury well an indictment means that there can be a trial by jury that also means there can be a plea under Georgia law you cannot enter a plea of guilty to a capital offense in the capital offenses anything punishable by death or life in prison for murder call if you can enter a plea to a murder charge in the state of Georgia listed in a grand jury indictment many offenses can a defendant can waive their right to grand jury and the prosecutor can proceed was called the accusation which is essentially the same kind of document this but this is no grand jury decide about the A type case with the DA can automatically do an accusation but not only capital case of before the case can be resolved one way or the other by trolley Buckley has to be a grand jury indictment and artisans from Sharon at Three Dog Love three why does the GBI keep everything so secretive what are they trying to protect right now the in the short answer is that there's a gag order in place in the can second earlier that is just a matter of good police procedure to protect the integrity of your investigation that you don't reveal everything you know Lindsay might know a thing or two about that but is it true you don't necessarily reveal everything you know so that you don't compromise the results of your investigation you think about it in the broader sense you know you've got human beings life or malign someone who is presumed to be innocent unless they either plead guilty or a jury finds him guilty so they need to make sure that what information gets before a jury potentially is not contaminated for the long answer to a short question is from Denise Woods at Georgia Lee seven grand jury ask me questions we don't know because what happens in Granger IN Georgia The Secret their deliberations are done entirely in secret what happens before the start deliberating secret we don't know and we're not entitled to know by law what if any questions they asked any witnesses that call looks like there's only one witness which is liek a season high based on my experience having presented cases to grand juries our prosecutor many times or no questions and if there are questions that sometimes just last for a few minutes I've had the rare case that takes a little longer most of them are fairly quick this is a good one I live with two different twist on the question from at Rachel Storm bake any chance the grand jury members could speak out about what they heard this week is against the law or just against the gag order well interesting enough the grand jurors are not subject to the gag order but they are subject to state law and to the oath they took to keep everything secret and not discuss outside the grand jury room what happens in the grand jury so it's not really a gag order issue that is part of state law they can't talk about what happens in grand jury from Jennifer Nicholson at genie to the public ever truly be informed as to what really happened the night ignorance to disappear I think the selection question that's been my biggest concern ever since his arrest in the case is that if some deal is cut with Ryan and or wood BOE is is possible that they can wind up in court Saturday afternoon on plan and schedule calendar stipulate to a factual basis without anybody having to say exactly what the facts of the case are the judge can accept a plea of guilty in a negotiated plea off to prison he goes without there ever being any public record of what they believe happened to have any effect on them I think that the public can have the facts to the degree that the public can make it known to the elected officials are not going to stand for I think that's really the the check and balance that you have yet but I do this all the time if we want to schedule a negotiated plea deal early so I just have to call the judges often say we like to bring someone so in for a negotiated plea tomorrow afternoon at two o'clock in the judge do it and answered yes to this is from Miss Bree a three GB I know if anyone else besides bow in Iran was involved with the concealment of the body well presumably they would know we don't know what they know we don't know what they don't know maybe things missing I've never seen an investigation they answered every single question that could possibly exist but going on a limb here I'm going to say that if they felt someone was criminally involved in any aspect to this case they wouldn't charge my gut tells me not believe that the case it's a pain a lot of people who sent me some questions over facebook and I promise that we get to some of them Kristin wants to know if anything ever happened with the soil samples that you took from below house and the soul has the house been ruled out at this point though soul samples were tested and results were negative as far as the house was going to leave the house it was where the BBQ was That's the house it was we tested the soil underneath the house were here went to the BBQ the night now is someone sent us a tip and we looked into it and felt that it had some merit to it and went out there called around and took some samples and that's where the GBI came later and found animal bones which I firmly believe were animal bones and I was pretty shocked that they found something but we searched everywhere in where we were now you could crawl deeper under the house through the crawl space to the other side but if you stayed in the area where you could see and booked the strangest you would have found anything in there some pretty comfortable where they did find was way deep in there and not where we were looking Aaron s the Navy tried to reach out Ryan for an interview the thinking some point he makes PT I have not tried to reach out to Ryan I would definitely entertain the idea I would be open for him telling his side the story telling everybody else but I have not reached out and I'm not sure if that would ever happen so Becca o Facebook asked do we know when Ryan's rain will be that's very good question and it leads me into a topical talk about which is the next steps the arraignment is what happens next it goes back to the old days in Georgia when people cannot you know necessarily across the board for the most part read write and so we put on notice what you are charged with he had to be brought into court and literally if you can read the judge or DA would read out loud in open court exactly what you're charged with and give you a copy of the written document so it's a throwback to the old days and it's an antiquated procedure most people have lawyers frequently waive arraignment which mean they are lawyer will sign a document in during an initial plea of not guilty and then get a copy of the indictment and they will get future court dates if they're known and then the lawyers will start airing their strategy for how they're going to resolve the case so are a menace something that will be next and it will be set by the Corps and the not too distant future it's also something that very well could the way it's not a silly time we will see the defendant in court now it's important for now at any point the process from this point going for the next step could be the entry of a plea of guilty so if they work out a plea deal they can literally step over the arraignment of the parties agreed to and just go straight into a plea deal and have a guilty plea hearing and that could be make sure that the rain will come next we know there's a five day notice requirement so it's going to be not too distant future but not necessarily in the next day or two following the indictment so after that there's time for pre trial matters pre trial motions to exclude evidence or other things there is motion to be folly the party the judge may rule on and then there would be trial and this could happen quickly but I kinda doubt it is going to be a trial it will be several months in the future but that would be how the case will be resolved if there's not a negotiated plea deal Heather asshole Facebook the dog handler said he turned evidence over to police that dragon he found out what that evidence was or does he fall in again for sure but he falls in the gag order because he's not part of this case he was not long for snow he was a third party that was brought in to help out I did fall back with him eventually and he told me what it was and will be discussing that in detail we circle back on several other things in the podcast coming up in to listen guys today's episode was mixed and mastered by resonate recordings you can check them out I resonate recordings the call and reminder next Monday's case evidence for listening guys
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Q&A with Payne Lindsey and Philip Holloway 04.13.17