DiscoverRetronautsRetronauts Episode 102: The Legend of Zelda - Link's Awakening

Retronauts Episode 102: The Legend of Zelda - Link's Awakening

Update: 2017-06-05
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Jeremy and Bob wax rhapsodic with Henry Gilbert and Kat Bailey as they harmonize to sing the praises of the first portable Zelda: The iconoclastic and frequently surreal Link's Awakening.

Following script is auto-generated by Speech to Text Technology:

this week another knots ask not for the bell tolls it tolls for the frog the the Everyone and welcome to episode blink of return on its this week is going to be talking about Zelda game because that's all anyone's talking about this week so it just came out oh but wait we're not talking over the wild because it's not retro tall Nintendo not steer me in turn and the Nintendo not see the bowtie sometimes awfully dapper I know that's telling in these and we're talking about a game based that that was inspired by good about frogs will I know my is a journey into the old rate varies for anyway no that's terrible I apologize I'm sorry I don't think so actually so anyway hi welcome to restaurants I'm Jerry Hirsch hosting this week with me this week it's been crazy let's go clock wise so hey Henry High in Gilbert I'm a big Mary and family I can say is not ready to be called on I am Kathie Lee I host excellent and links waking was my first ever Zelda and I cannot wait to be talking about oh wells awesome I'm Bob Mackie and I know the secrets of the bucket mouse I of bucking oh it's really nice to let you tell this right now ok if you want to do was there's no context for the sono but I'll tell eventually hold on your pants folks there's no real context it's true ok so listen when use the phone in end I think it's like to hit mine or whatever you do these phones and pick them up and sometimes it says Yes it's the cat mouse and you're like What the heck does this even mean apparently there was a fishing shop called bucket mouth in Kyo so that's that's what they would say when they pick up the phone and that is to the fishing guys based on leaks awakening and Cochran of time so it's it's based on a Kyoto fishing store or name bucket mouth that is how deep of a reference that is in a towel a few years ago if someone discovers that so that's what the bucket now says it actually bucket mouth right that the way Japanese is written English words are written it's damn big and I think it was like most mushy its bucket Mouse book amounts to less I'm sure the English allies are just like what in God's name okay whatever but yeah in your pocket and show to no one because you will be outcasts from society for knowing the secret bucket mouse and that sets the tone for this episode of retro not because we're talking about the legend is all the links awakening which I would go so far as to say is the weirdest and most surreal in the entire Zelda series I think Bob for making a stand up for mature as mask know I think this game I think this game established how weird and dark and creepy is all to get and just how well um not sort of I guess just trying to be unexpected and surprising to you I feel like there's some dark humor in the past but this game is just very very dark and weird sense of humor that I love I think awakening push the weirdness as far as they can go and adores mask almost got there but still wasn't as weird as weakening house telling my friend the other day that link the past like really establish where the series ago from that point on like the foundational aspect of it Lisa waking establishes personality from like that point on introduce so many weird things like alright like sitting in his little house or whatever and like the French accents and like the shopkeeper who would like a lecture cute shoe the tandem like Mario reference is like from that plane for like I felt like a lot of links awake means personality carried through into the rest of the series even if other games weren't as weird as in the general structures could be ahead of things but I think establish the structure would use I'm sorry to say this Go ahead okay I would have to do a mini challenge to get the thing to access the dungeon where I think it set up that standard which was in place I think until me breath while template yet so don't tell me it's a mystery to me the key to the dungeon in getting the key is it's own challenge and okay I'm done that's great so this is a remarkable game in many ways I think will jump right into it it was the first times all they had appeared on a handheld system the Gameboy was like four years old at the Times came out nineteen ninety three and it was one of the very first game's developer Game Boy by Nintendo E A D and she or me about his team and that's kind of significant because you know if you look back at it's sort of the way the Gameboy a developed it was created by Nintendo are in the one you know by a grumpy okay and that or Okada and most of the games that Nintendo published first party were overseen by Nintendo RT one and that includes Mario games so Clinton in ninety one was taking these important Nintendo franchises and working on them themselves but for whatever when it came to Zelda that was Nintendo E A D and that wasn't their first game project four for four for Game Boy will talk about that in a little bit but it was their first major production in one of the ferry few that they put together and I don't think there was no prejudice involved are like chauvinism about the Gameboy like Oh game ways not worthy for us it's just like hand kind of how Nintendo's divisions were assigned and the responsibilities they had because from nineteen eighty nine through nineteen ninety three Nintendo EA D was really heavily invested in the Super eighty s and even though they didn't develop the hardware it was really their responsibility to flesh out that early lineup I mean you look at the games that they've started working on a nineteen eighty eight and continue publishing through nineteen ninety two or so and you have Super Mario World you have pilot wings you have the Nintendo version of sim City you have zero you have ultimately led into the linked the past that's that's those are monumental games are massive games are huge undertakings so E A D was really never really caught up and really commited to building a great start for the Super NES and so that left kind of responsibility and stewardship of the Gameboy to R and D one and the people who designed the hardware in the first place so we know by nineteen ninety three he could finally start to look sort of a field and not focus entirely on the seventy s and that's that's about the time you start to see them eight games and like I said Lynx awakening was the second game that was really kind of a biggie eighty project the first one is a game that has a very close link and actually direct link to awakening did you see what I did there by mistake and that was a house with the Taylors Cairo note how mean the kind a law not to or for the Frog The Bell tolls which is a game that only came out in Japan and one of the characters from the game shows up in leagues awakening and really like the technology that they've built for this game they had the sort of game engine would end up being used and legends all the links awakening like this game of the four other through all the way to the translation third or so it's really interesting like the fights are bizarre in that he is like either you can beat the enemy or you can't it's like an auto battle where you put in the cloud fight and then you either beat him or you don't a lot of enemies are just roadblocks to get the item like the weapon you need to pass them so the encounters are tall like legends of it is very puzzling the very cock me to gain even more so than this it's like straight up comedy at one point you visit I think they call the game went on dough it's like the developer and all the caricatures of the people are working there and it's not a secret area it's like a major area of the game going to this video game developer it's it's oh it's so weird like a lot of the godlike love the silly like outlandish humor and likes waking is really amped up in this cave in you can find a way to play there is a fan translation it's easy to find please do it especially if you like links awakening there's a lot to love a scam I hadn't even heard of this game until the star that was revealed as a smash Brothers trophy in the smash Brothers we've three yes they passed and that's how I think was the first time Nintendo of America gave it an official American title is The For whom the fraud tools I believe it is in the bed and now that attack makes sense because his trophy attack is just it gets on a fighter in smash Brothers it then turns into that cloud of action yeah so the um when when when we say the the engine was kind of re used for the Lynx awakening I think what we really what people really mean is that this is a sort of solve the issue view even though as the sun kind of separate combat system has that kind of top down three quarters respectively even as a side scrolling like when you're things latter's I recall there being that element of it in the game as well yeah but you know in terms of structure it really has the sort of puzzle e adventure element that would really define links awakening and a lot of Zelda games after that and you saw some of that and a link to the past but not not nearly to the degree of links awakening so yeah it is really important to understand sort of the origins of this game and have as much to do with you know previous Zelda games as they do for the frog the bell tolls so it's kind of this little forgotten corner of Nintendo history I'd love to see them go back someday and provided no official US release for the game but I don't think a lot happening this is still another three before that I would think someone has translated its a good translation and it's like maybe five hours long it's it's really find it very slight but I found interesting as someone who thinks awakening to play through and it's always fun to find a Nintendo game didn't know existed and play it from there were a bunch of those on Gameboy like a lot and his first party releases on Gameboy were pretty obscure for a long time like talking Kong ninety four I don't think a lot of people knew about mold me I don't think was later released and that was another e a d me about a game yet you know thought of like that until now that the I think Nintendo really did have their teams really silo there of just why why would he deal with their mastering the game super ass then take time off of working to death on that to learn how to make the Gameboy was the brainy as needed all the content get the same time the Nintendo Gameboy was four years old at that point and if you think about this quite mature for context by a like you know for years by the time Game Boy advances for her four years old the DS had already been out for a year so I mean this so it's actually kind of crazy to think about it yay D took that long to get over to the Gameboy to actually start making again I guess when you know that's like saying somebody who lives to be a hundred they were told when they were at the same deal with the games you really get four years was all that's going it's going to be around for like eight or Gameboy like an absurdly long lifespan so I mean it's crazy it's really crazy if you think about like how long the African system actually mean it really started to fade in like nineteen ninety five or so so the line but it still is still very vital I think in nineteen ninety three is still lastly I think this is the most ambitious game of up to the point period just nothing I tried to do as much a way yeah it was I think almost the size only to the past I think I mean I think the only thing that really compare to it in terms of scope was venture which was also very similar sort of action RPG game but it didn't have anywhere near as intricate structure as links to all the items all the yeah well it's a given that it's just that if you look at Final Fantasy Adventure is a very straightforward action RPG yeah you know progression is pretty pretty simple pretty like Point A to Point B go you know go to this town you know learn this magic spell walk a circle later our figure eight around the palm trees whereas links awakening is very very intricate it's like a Gordie and not a video gaming and costly trying to unravel it but they both have psych class that result from bananas but one of them is not secretly heroin that's been to the legend the masses it's actually telling that when this game was you know in its heyday might know ninety three ninety four the fact that people are comparing it to actually to link to the pass and it was a legitimate argument whether link to the pastor links awakening was better and it was really a preference thing yet is it is a technological marvel they can pull that off too I'm like a Gameboy like the original Gameboy such a simple machine is compared to the Super as they were able to also get all that with just a D pad into four buttons like no and no shoulder buttons it blew my mind back to nineteen ninety three because it was like you start with the actual opening cut scene right and you cut to the shot of link like this beautiful Art of Link hanging from the ship in the middle of the storm or whatever and that looked like something that I might have seen a Super Nintendo Lisa my mind it was really remarkable and thus the art was really vital it was really strong like everything had so much detail to it the music was really really really good and it just it didn't ever it is not the technological limitations do not really occurred to me like it just it was as you said a technological marvel yeah going back and playing this game I find myself surprised by some of the stuff that doesn't Gameboy like if you bump into graves enough you bump into grave in a poll comes out but if you bump into them enough eventually there's a like a giant bow I might they manage to make a Sprite that big fly around on Gameboy the bosses are really big too often have lots of moving parts in them too yeah remember the commercial had the giant pole flying was going whoa well it's amazing the the the news the the the the the the the and the yes it's really just a true view on Gameboy and by far one of the most advanced most sophisticated and best designed games ever to appear on the platform and how many of the keel into the past people were involved in it to cut the sheet as you know I didn't know I look up the team is in yeah it was this something people don't maybe realize in the free ao numero it before he became the series' director of IT that the Mario theme is all of the more the same team or at least the same hands of a like new moto hadn't he was in charge and because he has a gut was the director of that he was the director of this game and the director of the past and also cozy worked out as well who's going to run three D Mario games and shoot in the same day but the the director of retro now Bob Hewitt or snobby Tom is also big in creation for as well so you have those three like high high is the level you the people working on and so I'm I'm you guys just read the law to ask it's the history of portable Zelda Spirit tracks and they talk to those who mean to cut a sorry those images as well as our new kind of weigh in on it and spend the most time talking about awakening obviously because they talk about how they the finish line to the past the good we make a link to the pass for Gameboy let's try it out and became an after hours project was not an approved project which they also credited to why they got to do things that if it was an approved project that went to the right systems people can't do that you can't include this character even license this from some from Hal and it's a lot of that and also they got to be they got to be weird because they were just trying something out to see if they can even do it and once they figured out the good then they got approval to fully make it but originally it was likely built like the past and hear only kind we can let's do something special with that so it's the Mega Man two of the love yes it totally gets a good way to put in and also that they confirm the interview but I've read elsewhere the light twin peaks was a big part of the Okay that was the one I keep wanting to say but I wanted to let this conversation can take its natural course a thank you for getting us to this point yet Twin peaks is a has been stated as an influence on this game I have never seen Twin peaks someone something away well I watched the first thing I guess the only reason you should watch I want to watch after playing deadly premonition to be like what they take everything I watch Twin peaks it's great obviously you need to tell you that but I don't see any direct links but I think what is said that he wanted a game full of mysterious characters with unclear motivations so here I mean a lot of people who are weirdos and you're not sure if they want to help you or you and that sort of what is all about like or these people why are they so weird what are they up to like that sort of what my e mail change hop jump around with a bow our head in like you want make up just like how detective with the space ends up in Twin peaks links link in this weird place with full of weirdos and he needs to get out of a talking animal a stranger in town in a weird place that feels somewhat familiar and somewhat not and there's some secret that he has to get to but because this is a complete game in seven TV series David Lynch can quit after the season actually has a beginning middle and he didn't get her twenties was prestige TV before that was the thing as to make a TV he's edgy cable into the point was really famous for Blue Bell they make you like edgy all resolves to make a drama for television if you want to raise her head and then be like What's this guy's TV show most people would say No I don't want to see this fact never showed to me but it was it was the hot thing nineteen ninety or ninety one like that Simpsons was a contemporary of when The Simpsons was super hot which tells you how old that show is and clearly it hadn't affected carried over to Japan very well least two developers of games because they all were watching it like they did in the article that they're like Yeah we're launching twenties but they don't like it too much into they don't like this is Episode twenty three beverages seem to be a thing they were watching at the time in there I go this is a good jumping off point but it's not there's no murder mystery in it like it's not really about that baby you kill everyone by weight but I needed you the vision to leave for mission but also Alan Wake light of this is mostly slobbering deep is the sermon it's a fine game but yeah that's I think that's that's really where twin beacons in and it also really ties it to the early nineties to a end the game does have a lot of sort of dream logic to it which makes sense because it's a dream the twenty years only wise Mario hear what's going on was you she here like wired was here did I think those touches are not just for fun is to make you feel uneasy but as I've And yeah I mean there's that but just the people you interact with yeah like in this game I can think of any other Zelda game where you talk to an alligator obsessed with bananas food the like other characters from other games yeah you know Doctor Wright who is of course will write taken from the super nice version of Sims and his being catfish by hip bone the Animal Village actually a woman here's my picture in Picture Princess Peach which is actually in the original game it's not one of those extra DS cut scenes but as Christine was the princess P is dean of the So that's what I was like I haven't made the part of my replay yeah so he's like a pen pal with her in love with her and she sent a picture but it's Picture Princess Peach when you go visit her she's like a hippo or something like Have I any animal Village it is weird things Guide is an owl who comes down unlike giving him lots of guidance and become a thing in Zelda yeah exactly I originally only sweeping know that would've been kind of an odd thing is this owls talking to me and we associate owls sleep and night time and I kind of thing but then of course a doctor in a time and actually quite a few things from leaks awakening kind of transferred over to our creative time the the music being a major theme for example the huge huge fetch quest that like had multiple connections I think all that the vehicle struck a millionaire because that's that that was in the water that is a Japanese fable that they all refer to this trouble you know the guy who had a piece of straw that untreated so we eventually ended up being a millionaire and every element of Japanese game design exactly is it a cultural thing that they've all it it's why the put it in its white cord to so many games the AL stuck around yes the Kareena as did Mary Mel and I mean marriage is obviously Mario bingo is he in the scheme to some Luigi corollary in this game lives on the mountain but this mean he's not evil he's just the Luigi looking guy but yeah they would have already in this game and the Yoshi Yoshi is a toy or be a war is Award as a DC Talk MTC teacher the Mambo or whatever I believe is when the music guys but it's just this bright light yes the spray from USA put in there they draw him differently the drawings of style in the instruction manual but it's just as bright from afar it is a great spirit yeah the the the the the and I the story to the game isn't much to talk about but I think of it is important ways to kind of begin to understand the game it does begin in a different way than any other Zelda games it begins like an easy game actually selling you know isn't a storm and he is shipwrecked and he washes up on the shore and a girl finds him and takes him back to care for him and he wakes up and there's a girl and her father kind of like watching over him that's totally like every game that link has become a dull Kristin and I and that's actually kind of where the game starts to get a little you know like and this isn't the typical zz all the thing you're not just like setting out an adventure but rather you will you're already on an adventure and you've been way laid like who knows what links actual adventure was in this game doesn't like it gives a little bit of you know like he's off to find new lands or something has to be in the timeline oh yeah actually for the split with the place in the time I now it's right after the past has completed his mission a link to the pass is off to do whatever is going to do the world and he gets WAY later during that training so he washes up on the mysterious island and coal and coal and yeah and basically he's on and has no way off and so this owl comes up is like youu link if you would like to get off this island you need to wake up the win fish and so his mission then becomes too weak to win fish which he does by fighting eight mystical weapons each of which are weapons from a mystical instruments are as nothing is final five Which wich you know are located in dungeons all around the island and once he has these spirit instruments then he goes up to the win fishes egg because of course fish sleep in AG's of the top of them oh yes yes bought a tag yeah it's just a big old egg that sitting there and it looks like it's kind of mountain but is not really death mound but also interestingly also an easy trek up to the top there's no like Eli Knowles or news the latter the latter is also reminiscent of Gans pyramid from Lynx Pass where you're like you know you're standing at the top and then at the end of the game it breaks open and now you can go inside we're talking about the beginning of the game I think like the jurors mascot throws you curve ball and that's his mask this empowers you by making plays a deck you for like three hours but this game you don't get a sword until you play maybe twenty minutes fifteen it's actually youth the fight and she'll shove them out of that I got to the life I've been sorting and I didn't spend twenty minutes walking around without talking to everybody well that's the cool toys you find yours or you get the feel of fun when you get this or it's not like the Master sword that's a cable to shoot things and also they read from the beginning they are adding like lotsa little interesting things like their guardian acorns that my eye will power up your deep enough and those because they change the music and music groups those are interesting I was dreaming this for dnt and oh last week I realize like they're called pieces of power and try force by the trifecta tri force of power is Gans five words Jesus so what does that mean that was really strange dream so what does that mean like metaphorically for him was the right to my villain or the batteries I don't like the music changing the music changed by like when you get the tri force peace or Power PC it knocks and he's a cross and enemies take two hits go flying and I and one is also the first time to get the sword is really great because Link hell holes up you know as he does and that after the triumphant theme is complete he does a spin attack in like everybody on the screamed I know another curveball of the game throws is any mention that you don't start out with a sword you just have the shield with the shield is different instead of just like wah blocking things you have to hold up the shield to defend with it but because of that changes the dynamic of the shield so instead of just blocking projectiles now the show can be used to push things you can use it to actually physically block enemy from hitting you on top of that you can actually push them like invincible enemies you can push in the pits and like it really opens up some new possibilities The Shield is no longer just as passive element you're carrying a wand that real fast yeah yeah I mean you have to push with the shield to get those spiky things out of eighty four I mean you don't have to equip a sword a shield or sword like all the sudden everything in your inventory becomes optional and the game starts does you know to play with combinations of equipment and tools and yeah like it's not your typical result in that sense I mean there are a lot of it was a lot of different utility I feel like they do it very well but it does it kind of annoying when it's like OK there's a long time here got to go to the windscreen of the rock feather in his boots do the job then quit but I was using before I mean the menus that you just slide right in and out of them that there's a lot of going to that menu changes daily problem with is that I always want to hit the decks at the menu but if you hit be a sign to the fun by it I really think that the reason that they they did this wasn't I mean maybe I'm just speculating I am speculating maybe I'm totally wrong but I feel like they went from a game on a system with a controller that had four face buttons and two shoulder buttons to a system that has to face buttons and a soda you could no longer have a game quite as complex as a link to the past so instead of being able to equip a bunch of stuff all at once and have diff
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Retronauts Episode 102: The Legend of Zelda - Link's Awakening