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Cooper & Cary Have Words

Author: James Cary & Barry Cooper

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James Cary and Barry Cooper are two English friends who live 4000 miles apart and enjoy theology, culture and the arts. Now they record themselves and call it a podcast. Thanks, internet.

To get access to well over a hundred Cooper & Cary episodes, plus regular extended episodes and bonus content, subscribe to C&C Plus on Apple Podcasts.

Or if you'd like all the above, plus video and access to an exclusive Discord server, become a Patron. Google "Cooper and Cary Patreon" or visit https://www.patreon.com/cooperandcary

30 Episodes
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#169 Farewell, 2023

#169 Farewell, 2023

2023-12-2850:34

Well, that was 2023. Join James and Barry as they choose their favourite episodes, dive into the C&C mailbag, and talk about their favourite books, films, tv, podcasts, and moments of 2023. Pull up a cocoa, recline by the glowing hearth, and - sure, go ahead - stoke the auld acquaintance, as we see out another year together.Support the showUnlock extended ad-free episodes, advance access, a huge episode archive, and bonus content, by subscribing to Cooper & Cary+ on Apple Podcasts. Or get everything on C&C+, together with video, and access to the exclusive C&C Discord server, by becoming a Patron.Encouragement and/or open derision should be addressed here: cooperandcary@gmail.comProduction and music by Cooper & Cary. Opening theme by Beyond Our Galaxy.
#168 Space Invaders?

#168 Space Invaders?

2023-12-1453:38

James and Barry have extended words about Unidentified Autonomous (or Anomalous, or Aerial) Phenomena - UAPs to their friends. Strange things are being seen in the skies, even by highly trained and highly sceptical USAF fighter pilots, there is video evidence which has been made publicly available, and these things are being discussed at the highest levels of government. What's going on? Why have governments previously wanted to keep quiet about it? And how should Christians think about these things? Is it a threat to historic, biblical Christianity - or confirmation of it?UAP footage on NBC News: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nSIKYlm2eEDeclassified UAP footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO_M0hLlJ-QHaunted Cosmos podcast: https://www.thehauntedcosmos.comMedieval X-Files courtesy of the Middle Ages Music YouTube ChannelSupport the showUnlock extended ad-free episodes, advance access, a huge episode archive, and bonus content, by subscribing to Cooper & Cary+ on Apple Podcasts. Or get everything on C&C+, together with video, and access to the exclusive C&C Discord server, by becoming a Patron.Encouragement and/or open derision should be addressed here: cooperandcary@gmail.comProduction and music by Cooper & Cary. Opening theme by Beyond Our Galaxy.
Cooper and Cary have words about spiritual revivals with Jonathan Thomas, writer and presenter of the documentary Welsh Awakenings. Jonathan is pastor of Cornerstone Church Abergavenny, and the presenter of All Things Considered on BBC Radio Wales.Watch the documentary trailer here: https://vimeo.com/ondemand/welshawakeningsJonathan's book, Intentional Interruptions: Learning to be Interrupted the Way God Intended: https://tinyurl.com/2e4nrdamSupport the showUnlock extended ad-free episodes, advance access, a huge episode archive, and bonus content, by subscribing to Cooper & Cary+ on Apple Podcasts. Or get everything on C&C+, together with video, and access to the exclusive C&C Discord server, by becoming a Patron.Encouragement and/or open derision should be addressed here: cooperandcary@gmail.comProduction and music by Cooper & Cary. Opening theme by Beyond Our Galaxy.
James and Barry have words about the TV juggernaut that is The Chosen. Lots of their friends love it. But James and Barry have... thoughts. Is The Chosen a 2CV - second commandment violation - and if not, is it still worth watching?Here's the Justin Peters Youtube VideoCary’s Water into Wine showSupport the showUnlock extended ad-free episodes, advance access, a huge episode archive, and bonus content, by subscribing to Cooper & Cary+ on Apple Podcasts. Or get everything on C&C+, together with video, and access to the exclusive C&C Discord server, by becoming a Patron.Encouragement and/or open derision should be addressed here: cooperandcary@gmail.comProduction and music by Cooper & Cary. Opening theme by Beyond Our Galaxy.
Cooper and Cary have words about power and its abuse with Mark Stirling, former medical doctor and pastor. He's the author of Not So with You: Power and Leadership for the Church. Mark's book: Not So With You (Amazon UK)Not So With You (Amazon US) The spate of recent scandals of power abuse by leaders within the evangelical world suggests something is wrong in our churches. When a leader misuses power, they have misunderstood and misrepresented God and the gospel. This volume addresses the key underlying issue of what a biblical and healthy use of power in the church actually looks like. Authors from a variety of Christian backgrounds and traditions help frame a biblical and theological understanding and practice of power use, describe what it looks like when things go wrong (and how to recognize the signs), and suggest how the contemporary church can and must do better in this area. This book is a rigorously grounded biblical challenge to much contemporary practice. It is a call to reformation.Support the showUnlock extended ad-free episodes, advance access, a huge episode archive, and bonus content, by subscribing to Cooper & Cary+ on Apple Podcasts. Or get everything on C&C+, together with video, and access to the exclusive C&C Discord server, by becoming a Patron.Encouragement and/or open derision should be addressed here: cooperandcary@gmail.comProduction and music by Cooper & Cary. Opening theme by Beyond Our Galaxy.
James and Barry have words about the shift from "being anxious" to "having anxiety". What does anxiety have to do with idols? What are the reasons behind the current "anxiety epidemic"? Is anxiety a condition that ought to be pathologised? Is looking back at historic "trauma" always a helpful way to improve mental health? And how does our new identity in Christ change things?ReferencesThe Student Health Crisis Is A Myth https://unherd.com/2023/09/the-student-mental-health-crisis-is-a-myth/Why Do Teenage Girls Feel Unsafe? https://unherd.com/thepost/why-do-so-many-teenage-girls-feel-unsafe/Humans Are More Resilient Than You Think (podcast about "trauma") https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humans-are-more-resilient-than-you-think/id1570872415?i=1000547660535Common Questions About Mental Illness (podcast with David Murray)https://www.crossway.org/articles/podcast-answering-common-questions-about-mental-illness-david-murray/Jon Haidt's Substack, After Babel:  https://jonathanhaidt.substack.com/Jon Haidt's article about the decline in mental health since 2013, and how colleges have been performing "*reverse cognitive behavioral therapy": https://jonathanhaidt.substack.com/p/mental-health-liberal-girlsSupport the showUnlock extended ad-free episodes, advance access, a huge episode archive, and bonus content, by subscribing to Cooper & Cary+ on Apple Podcasts. Or get everything on C&C+, together with video, and access to the exclusive C&C Discord server, by becoming a Patron.Encouragement and/or open derision should be addressed here: cooperandcary@gmail.comProduction and music by Cooper & Cary. Opening theme by Beyond Our Galaxy.
James and Barry have extended words with Thomas Umstattd (@ThomasUmstattd) about writing. In 2009, Thomas started AuthorTechTips.com, a website to help authors use the web to promote their books. In 2014, Thomas’s blog post Why Courtship is Fundamentally Flawed went viral and reached over a million people in just a few weeks. As a podcaster, he hosts the Novel Marketing Podcast, and the Christian Publishing Show.Support the showUnlock extended ad-free episodes, advance access, a huge episode archive, and bonus content, by subscribing to Cooper & Cary+ on Apple Podcasts. Or get everything on C&C+, together with video, and access to the exclusive C&C Discord server, by becoming a Patron.Encouragement and/or open derision should be addressed here: cooperandcary@gmail.comProduction and music by Cooper & Cary. Opening theme by Beyond Our Galaxy.
James and Barry discuss the art of listening. What does the Bible have to say about it? And how does it relate to anger? Are we bad at listening because it's a selfless thing to do? After all, there's no "I" in "LISTENING" is there? Oh wait.Support the showUnlock extended ad-free episodes, advance access, a huge episode archive, and bonus content, by subscribing to Cooper & Cary+ on Apple Podcasts. Or get everything on C&C+, together with video, and access to the exclusive C&C Discord server, by becoming a Patron.Encouragement and/or open derision should be addressed here: cooperandcary@gmail.comProduction and music by Cooper & Cary. Opening theme by Beyond Our Galaxy.
Cooper and Cary have  words with Matt Fuller, pastor of Christ Church Mayfair in London - yup, the most expensive one on the British Monopoly board. Matt is the author of Reclaiming Masculinity: Seven Biblical Principles for Being the Man God Wants You to Be. (Cary has known Matt for 25 years and is fine with the fact that Matt did not dedicate this book to him, but went with two other guys instead...)Support the showUnlock extended ad-free episodes, advance access, a huge episode archive, and bonus content, by subscribing to Cooper & Cary+ on Apple Podcasts. Or get everything on C&C+, together with video, and access to the exclusive C&C Discord server, by becoming a Patron.Encouragement and/or open derision should be addressed here: cooperandcary@gmail.comProduction and music by Cooper & Cary. Opening theme by Beyond Our Galaxy.
Has the church become a battleground for personal preferences? Is the holy communion of believers threatened by our own biases and individualistic tendencies? Cooper & Cary have words about disagreements and disputes in the church, and how to handle them. In Philippians 4, Paul pleads with Euodia and Syntyche to "agree in the Lord". How do we do that? What does that even mean? And should there be times when we simply can't "agree to disagree"?Philippians 4https://earlychurchhistory.org/beliefs-2/paul-barnabas-split-over-mark/https://tabletalkmagazine.com/article/2022/03/conflicts-over-lesser-matters/https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/7-steps-to-conflict-resolution/Support the showUnlock extended ad-free episodes, advance access, a huge episode archive, and bonus content, by subscribing to Cooper & Cary+ on Apple Podcasts. Or get everything on C&C+, together with video, and access to the exclusive C&C Discord server, by becoming a Patron.Encouragement and/or open derision should be addressed here: cooperandcary@gmail.comProduction and music by Cooper & Cary. Opening theme by Beyond Our Galaxy.
Cooper and Cary have words with Ros Clarke, author of the new book Human: Made and Remade in the Image of God. She writes, "If we want to understand what it means to be truly human, we need to listen to God rather than look inside ourselves”. Why do people prefer to look inside themselves, and what is better about listening to God instead? And how did writing this book change how Ros felt about herself?Ros' Book: https://ivpbooks.com/human-930Support the showUnlock extended ad-free episodes, advance access, a huge episode archive, and bonus content, by subscribing to Cooper & Cary+ on Apple Podcasts. Or get everything on C&C+, together with video, and access to the exclusive C&C Discord server, by becoming a Patron.Encouragement and/or open derision should be addressed here: cooperandcary@gmail.comProduction and music by Cooper & Cary. Opening theme by Beyond Our Galaxy.
James and Barry have words about what unbelievers really believe. Tara Isabella Burton has written a stimulating book called Strange Rites about people in the States who identify as "spiritual but not religious". She argues that America is not "secular" at all, but "spiritually self-focused".Does that explain why people currently seem so willing to believe in phenomena such as ghosts, UFOs, and all things "woooooo"? And does it explain why the hyper-rational arguments of the new atheists seem not to have won the day?Review of Strange Rites: https://www.solas-cpc.org/book-review-strange-rites-new-religions-for-a-godless-world/Article by Tara Isabella Burton about post-rationalists: https://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/rational-magicUncanny radio show: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/brand/m0010x7cGuardian article on the growth of religious belief in recent years: https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/aug/27/religion-why-is-faith-growing-and-what-happens-nextTerrifying AI generated woman, LOAB: https://techcrunch.com/2022/09/13/loab-ai-generated-horror/Paul Kingsnorth's spooky article on AI, The Universal: https://paulkingsnorth.substack.com/p/the-universalSupport the showUnlock extended ad-free episodes, advance access, a huge episode archive, and bonus content, by subscribing to Cooper & Cary+ on Apple Podcasts. Or get everything on C&C+, together with video, and access to the exclusive C&C Discord server, by becoming a Patron.Encouragement and/or open derision should be addressed here: cooperandcary@gmail.comProduction and music by Cooper & Cary. Opening theme by Beyond Our Galaxy.
Cooper and Cary have extended words with Matthew Fisher about the Bebington Quadrilateral and the definition of evangelical. They also get into whether or not the evangelical focus on a person's "conversion" is a healthy one. Barry's "conversion experience" was quite a dramatic one - but to what extent should we presume that kind of thing is normative?Support the showUnlock extended ad-free episodes, advance access, a huge episode archive, and bonus content, by subscribing to Cooper & Cary+ on Apple Podcasts. Or get everything on C&C+, together with video, and access to the exclusive C&C Discord server, by becoming a Patron.Encouragement and/or open derision should be addressed here: cooperandcary@gmail.comProduction and music by Cooper & Cary. Opening theme by Beyond Our Galaxy.
James and Barry have words about parachurch ministries. It's hard to find a popular Christian teacher who doesn't have his or her own parachurch ministry. Then there are campus ministries, youth ministries, evangelism ministries, mercy ministries. Are they God's gift to the church, coming alongside the local church to help them fulfil their mission? Or do they actually keep the church from being what it's supposed to be? This could get awkward, given that Cooper has spent half his life working for parachurch organisations...Related articles and videosPastors HeartDesiring GodNine MarksWee FleaSupport the showUnlock extended ad-free episodes, advance access, a huge episode archive, and bonus content, by subscribing to Cooper & Cary+ on Apple Podcasts. Or get everything on C&C+, together with video, and access to the exclusive C&C Discord server, by becoming a Patron.Encouragement and/or open derision should be addressed here: cooperandcary@gmail.comProduction and music by Cooper & Cary. Opening theme by Beyond Our Galaxy.
James and Barry outdo themselves by getting their Bavincks in a twist. Thankfully, Dan Strange is on hand to do some untwisting. Just who is J H Bavinck, and why should we care? (NOT to be confused with his better known uncle *Herman* Bavinck - ha ha! as if anyone would be THAT stupid!). What does J H Bavinck have to tell us about missions, cultural engagement, and how to have a civil conversation?The word of the podcast is "elenctics". That's "elenctics".Daniel Strange is director of Crosslands Forum and the vice president of The Southgate Fellowship. He is a fellow of The Keller Center for Cultural Apologetics and is the author of Their Rock Is Not Like Our Rock: A Theology of Religions (Zondervan, 2015), Plugged In (The Good Book Company, 2019), and Making Faith Magnetic (The Good Book Company, 2021). He is a contributing editor for Themelios and an elder of Hope Community Church, Gateshead, U.K., which is part of the Fellowship of Evangelical Churches (FIEC).Support the showUnlock extended ad-free episodes, advance access, a huge episode archive, and bonus content, by subscribing to Cooper & Cary+ on Apple Podcasts. Or get everything on C&C+, together with video, and access to the exclusive C&C Discord server, by becoming a Patron.Encouragement and/or open derision should be addressed here: cooperandcary@gmail.comProduction and music by Cooper & Cary. Opening theme by Beyond Our Galaxy.
Does it really matter what we wear, or don't wear? Cooper and Cary have words about nudity and modesty. Does Christian modesty mean all public nudity is forbidden for Christians? What about looking at nudity in a Renaissance painting, or in a movie? How about if it's *reeeeally* tastefully done? Should we avoid nudity primarily because it might encourage lust in others... or is there a more fundamental reason for doing so?Jason Ward's article on nudity is available in Vol 136/4 of Global Anglican magazine: https://www.churchsociety.org/product/the-global-anglican-vol-136-4/In this episode, we explore everything from beach attire to Christians at a nudist beach, and even the portrayal of nudity in popular culture like Game of Thrones and Renaissance art.Join us as we examine the role of nakedness and modesty in Biblical teachings, uncovering the connections between the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve, and the shame associated with nudity. We'll also consider the historical and cultural significance of garments, from coronations to glorification, and how they relate to our spiritual experiences.But it's not just about history - we'll also dive into the various perceptions of nudity and modesty across different cultures, discussing how men and women approach these topics in public settings. As we navigate the world of Christian ethics, we'll explore the implications of categories like 'clean' and 'unclean,' and how they relate to our understanding of modesty.Support the showUnlock extended ad-free episodes, advance access, a huge episode archive, and bonus content, by subscribing to Cooper & Cary+ on Apple Podcasts. Or get everything on C&C+, together with video, and access to the exclusive C&C Discord server, by becoming a Patron.Encouragement and/or open derision should be addressed here: cooperandcary@gmail.comProduction and music by Cooper & Cary. Opening theme by Beyond Our Galaxy.
Cooper and Cary have words with 9Marks' Jonathan Leeman (@JonathanLeeman) about church membership and discipline. What are the pros/cons? Is it really necessary? And what actually happened when Leeman and Cooper shared a New Jersey hotel room that one time? (PS Sorry for Cooper's sound quality on this episode. He's been warned, and we have no further comments to make at this time.)Links:- Jonathan's book on membership: https://www.amazon.com/Church-Membership-Represents-Building-Churches/dp/1433532379/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1684263039&sr=8-4- Jonathan's book on church discipline: https://www.amazon.com/Church-Discipline-Protects-Building-Churches/dp/1433532336/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1684263039&sr=8-2- Desiring God article by Marshall Segal: https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/why-god-made-you-for-membershipSupport the showUnlock extended ad-free episodes, advance access, a huge episode archive, and bonus content, by subscribing to Cooper & Cary+ on Apple Podcasts. Or get everything on C&C+, together with video, and access to the exclusive C&C Discord server, by becoming a Patron.Encouragement and/or open derision should be addressed here: cooperandcary@gmail.comProduction and music by Cooper & Cary. Opening theme by Beyond Our Galaxy.
Cooper and Cary have extended words on a subject they are ideally placed to discuss: the midlife crisis. Have people always had them? How common are they? What are the causes? And is there a way of mitigating against them? LinksMidlife crisis is more than a theoryRoyal Society lectureJordan Peterson on the midlife crisisMidlife in the 2020s: Opportunities and ChallengesSupport the showUnlock extended ad-free episodes, advance access, a huge episode archive, and bonus content, by subscribing to Cooper & Cary+ on Apple Podcasts. Or get everything on C&C+, together with video, and access to the exclusive C&C Discord server, by becoming a Patron.Encouragement and/or open derision should be addressed here: cooperandcary@gmail.comProduction and music by Cooper & Cary. Opening theme by Beyond Our Galaxy.
Cooper is unwell, so Cary has words with pastor Andrew Fellows (formerly of L'Abri Fellowship) to talk about the significance of Francis Schaeffer. Also: what's gone wrong with the Church?Andrew's book: https://www.amazon.com/Smuggling-Jesus-Back-into-Church/dp/1789743435Support the showUnlock extended ad-free episodes, advance access, a huge episode archive, and bonus content, by subscribing to Cooper & Cary+ on Apple Podcasts. Or get everything on C&C+, together with video, and access to the exclusive C&C Discord server, by becoming a Patron.Encouragement and/or open derision should be addressed here: cooperandcary@gmail.comProduction and music by Cooper & Cary. Opening theme by Beyond Our Galaxy.
Cooper and Cary have words about the so-called "Winsomeness Wars". How should Christians speak to others, especially those who disagree with us? Is there a one-size fits all approach? And might "winsomeness" actually lose some?Background Articleshttps://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2022/november/moore-winsomeness-hostile-culture-fruit-spirit.htmlhttps://americanreformer.org/2023/01/the-winsomeness-wars/https://americanreformer.org/2022/10/sheep-wolves-and-fools/https://aaronrenn.substack.com/p/newsletter-3-the-history-of-the-churchhttps://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/be-winsome-and-persuasive/Background Podcastshttps://paulvanderklay.podbean.com/e/aaron-renn-s-three-worlds-of-evangelicalism-and-the-winsome-wars/https://dougwils.com/podcasts/plodcast/258-evangelical-winsomeness-2.htmlSupport the showUnlock extended ad-free episodes, advance access, a huge episode archive, and bonus content, by subscribing to Cooper & Cary+ on Apple Podcasts. Or get everything on C&C+, together with video, and access to the exclusive C&C Discord server, by becoming a Patron.Encouragement and/or open derision should be addressed here: cooperandcary@gmail.comProduction and music by Cooper & Cary. Opening theme by Beyond Our Galaxy.
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Comments (3)

Russell Bray

I've been listening to these guys and plowing through their prior issues and find them to be very entertaining, thought provoking, humble and versed on the culture of this age. one of my favorite podcasts.

Jul 22nd
Reply (1)

Torrey Jones

Great podcast, guys! I really enjoy the thoughts and insights shared in an often humorous way.

Jan 11th
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