Healthcare is Hard: A Podcast for Insiders

In the first of a series of episodes exploring opportunities for innovation in the pharmacy space, Mark Cuban offered perspective from an outsider intent on disrupting the status quo. In this, the second episode, Dr. Troyen Brennan gives an insider point-of-view from someone who has studied and worked in the space for decades.Dr. Brennan was Chief Medical Officer at CVS Health for nearly 14 years, and before that, Chief Medical Officer at Aetna for two years. He was also a practicing physician at Brigham and Women’s Hospital for 15 years where he was president of Brigham and Women’s Physician Organization. During that time, he was also Professor of Medicine at Harvard Medical School and Professor of Law and Public Health at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health. He is the former Chair of the American Board of Internal Medicine and has published six books and more than 600 articles offering his insight into the American healthcare system, and his ideas on how to improve it.With extensive knowledge of how the industry has evolved, and an understanding for why many of the complexities in the industry exist, Dr. Brennan offers a unique viewpoint about where and how disruption in the pharmacy space can succeed. In his eyes, the idea of good and bad actors in the pharmacy space is a false narrative. With an historical perspective, he explains how industry processes were all sensible when they were first implemented, and how that viewpoint is critical to understanding and addressing some that may have become seemingly senseless over time. A few of the topics he discussed with Keith Figlioli in this Healthcare is Hard episode include:Six ways PBMs have lowered cost. Dr. Brennan provides a history of pharmacy benefits managers (PBMs), why they were created in the late 1950s and how they have helped the pharmacy industry. He discussed his thoughts on the six things PBMs have done – and are still doing – to help control costs. These include expanding the use of mail order pharmacies, sourcing generic drugs, introducing tiered pricing, implementing prior authorization and utilization management, assembling pharmacy networks, and negotiating rebates.Flexibility of PBMs. When discussing the future role PBMs may or may not play in the industry, Dr. Brennan says he’s confident in the ability for big PBMs to adapt. He believes they’ve proven to be more flexible than other parts of the healthcare system and will continue to have significant influence as regulations evolve and disruptors enter the market. He says that Mark Cuban is having a good influence on the industry overall with Cost Plus Drug Company, but would bet on the ability of PBMs to adapt.The path to greater affordability. With new, life-changing therapeutics being introduced regularly and specialty pharmacy expected to become a significant portion of healthcare spending, Dr. Brennan discusses some of the potential options for ensuring these treatments are affordable. He believes entrepreneurs disrupting the space can help contribute, but regardless of the role they play, says government will ultimately have to step in with price controls. He points to the role government plays controlling the costs of hospital services and says it will eventually have to play a similar role in the pharmacy space.To hear Dr. Brennan and Keith discuss these topics and more, listen to this episode of Healthcare is Hard: A Podcast for Insiders.

Mark Cuban built a career disrupting industries and creating new ones. Now, his sights are set on healthcare. There’s no secret ingredient to Mark’s success. As the world sees very publicly on Shark Tank, his style is the opposite of keeping secrets. It’s based on providing respectful, but direct, honest and unvarnished opinions. He’s bringing that style to healthcare in order to inject what he says the industry is lacking most. Trust.To kick-off a series of Healthcare is Hard podcast episodes that will dive deep into all aspects of reinventing the pharmacy space, Keith Figlioli sat down with Mark to discuss his vision and strategy behind Mark Cuban Cost Plus Drug Company, and many other healthcare-related topics.With Cost Plus Drug Company, Mark is bringing radical transparency to what he says is the most opaque industry he’s ever been involved in. He’s doing it by pricing every single product the same way – the cost of a drug, plus 15% markup, plus pharmacy fee (if any), plus shipping – and publishing these details for everyone to see.Through this model, Mark aims reduce costs and improve access to drugs, while rebuilding trust in the industry. With 2,400+ drugs now available, he’s off to a fast start and talked to Keith about other evolving elements of the business including wholesale operations for providers, partnerships with grocery and pharmacy chains, and more.Some of the other topics Keith and Mark discussed include:The Netflix model for specialty drugs. With revolutionary precision medicine coming to market at high costs that can reach millions of dollars per treatment, how will employers and consumers afford them? According to Mark, that’s the wrong question. He’s looking at the challenge through the manufacturer’s lens, asking how much they’ve invested in drug development and at what dollar value can they make reasonable returns. He discussed conversations he’s having with manufacturers about creating subscription services that could cover a wide range of high-cost, specialty drugs.Transparent, direct contracting. Mark now self-insures his employees and their family members, contracts directly with providers on payment rates, and – following the Cost Plus philosophy – publishes everything for the world to see. He shared a personal story that helped lead him to this decision where he paid a provider directly when his son needed an X-ray and realized it was a fraction of the cost of agreed upon rates with his insurance company. He talked about how this decision cuts other costs while improving employee wellness, removing burdens on HR, and ultimately helping providers by removing the risk they take and helping them get paid faster. Millions of AI models. Mark is a big believer that there will be millions of AI models and everyone will have one. He says 100 years from now you’ll be able to ask him questions through a model trained on all his emails and data. But AI in healthcare will be more segmented. He talks about how there’s no way leading research hospitals with respected brands will feed their data into one large language model unless they get paid an extreme amount of money. They may even stop publishing “anything and everything” to prevent their research from being ingested into someone else’s model.To hear Mark and Keith discuss these topics and more, listen to this episode of Healthcare is Hard: A Podcast for Insiders.

In most industries, innovation leads to an improved product or service while ultimately helping to lower cost. Healthcare is the exception. Despite a constant pursuit of new science, technology, operational efficiencies, business models and more, healthcare expenditures in the U.S. have continued to increase for decades with little sign of bending the cost curve downward. What causes this phenomenon in U.S. healthcare, and what can we do about it? In their book, Why Not Better and Cheaper?: Healthcare and Innovation, twin brothers James B. Rebitzer and Robert S. Rebitzer offer answers to those questions.Jim and Bob’s book brings together research on incentives, social norms, and market competition to argue that the healthcare system generates the wrong kinds of innovation. They contend that U.S. healthcare makes it too easy to profit from low-value innovations and too hard to profit from innovations that reduce the costs of care. As a result, we get a system where innovation abounds, but finding ways to deliver increased value at lower cost is remarkably ineffective.In this episode of Healthcare is Hard, Keith Figlioli talked to Jim, a professor at Boston University’s School of Business, and Bob, National Advisor at Manatt Health, for an in-depth discussion about their work. Their conversation explored topics including:Misaligned incentives. Understanding how incentives work inside and between organizations has been a large focus of Jim’s career in economics, and he now applies that work to the complex world of healthcare. As an example of that complexity that’s all too common, Bob shared a story of a scientist and entrepreneur he advised who had developed a quick and inexpensive way to change how people walk in order to reduce pressure on the knee. While this could defer or obviate the need for common and expensive knee replacement surgeries, he discussed how difficult it would be to turn this idea into a profitable business since organizations across the healthcare ecosystem lack proper incentives to pay for it. He discussed why gain sharing would be the solution in every other part of the economy, and why it doesn’t work in healthcare.The fourth vital sign of healthcare. People generally think of the healthcare system as having three vital signs – cost, quality and access. But Jim and Bob see a fourth vital sign that, so far, hasn’t been recognized. In the long sweep of history, they say innovation matters just as much as the other three vital signs and stress that part of a healthy system should be the ability to produce innovations that increase value to patients while lowering costs.Innovation vs. irrational finance. In order to truly unlock innovation does the country’s irrational finance and insurance system need to be fixed first? Bob and Jim share their thinking around this debate and their ultimate conclusion: not necessarily. Bob compares healthcare innovation to walking uphill in a fog… you never know when you’re going to reach the top, but all you can do is place your foot in a somewhat higher place than it was before.To hear Keith, Bob and Jim discuss these topics and more, listen to this episode of Healthcare is Hard: A Podcast for Insiders.

Through its work with more than 41,000 healthcare facilities and the industry’s largest database of patient feedback, Press Ganey gives organizations the data and insights they need to put the human experience at the center of healthcare.Since it was founded nearly 40 years ago by Professors Press and Ganey at the University of Notre Dame, the company has built a reputation for being the prominent source of patient feedback, but it hasn’t stopped there. Its solutions capture the voice of the patient, physician, nurse, and employee to keep healthcare focused on people by enabling organizations to address safety, clinical excellence, patient and member experience, and workforce engagement.Pat Ryan became CEO of Press Ganey in 2012 after more than 30 years working with healthcare leaders and providers, including a dozen years as a Press Ganey client. Pat has served on several health system boards and has worked throughout his career to improve the quality and safety of care while lowering cost and achieving caregiver resilience to deliver truly patient-centered experience.In this episode of Healthcare is Hard, Pat spoke with Keith Figlioli about the increasing focus on human experience in healthcare transformation. Drawing knowledge from his career and from Press Ganey’s unrivaled understanding of patients and the professionals who serve them, Pat shared his perspective on topics including:The link between patient experience and financial success. Pat shared what he says is a little known fact – that health systems across the country with the highest margins also have the highest patient scores. He talked about how the two are linked and how value leads to long term community loyalty. He cited his time on the board of Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center where they looked at patient data first and financial data second. He says health systems today need a comprehensive view that also includes safety and employee engagement data in order to identify opportunities for improvement.Redesigning healthcare from the outside in. Any consumer business would start with the needs of the customer first and work backwards to design systems that add value. But healthcare wasn’t created that way and was built from the inside-out. Pat discussed the need for healthcare organizations to continue the long journey of recognizing that consumers comes first, and talked about how workforce engagement will be an important component of that as the industry evolves.The trust factor. Pat describes how organization can map trust in order to understand where it breaks down by identifying friction points within the customer journey. He talks about how important it is to build and maintain trust in all relationships – not just a patient or family’s trust in an organization, but also nurse, clinician and employee trust in their organization and leadership. He mentions how important this is for payer organizations that are especially susceptible to unfair or inaccurate perceptions. Opportunities for innovation. When discussing areas where healthcare organizations can improve, and where innovators in the space can help them, Pat’s focus during this conversation was mostly on two issues – home care and the shift towards value. He says figuring out how to care for more people at home is going to be critical and sees opportunity around redesigning the healthcare workforce for the gig economy. He also talks about how slow the movement to value-based contracts has been and how a major break in the system may finally force congress to act if adoption doesn’t pick up.To hear Keith and Pat discuss these topics and more, listen to this episode of Healthcare is Hard: A Podcast for Insiders.

This is the final episode in a four part series with heads of strategy at providers and payers from across the healthcare ecosystem to explore “the new normal” in a post-COVID operating environment. For this episode Keith Figlioli welcomed Sukanya Soderland, Chief Strategy Officer at Blue Cross Blue Shield of Massachusetts, to explore how a regional payer is adapting. This follows previous episodes that offered a diverse perspective from heads of strategy at:A regional health system, OhioHealth (Episode 58)A national health system, CommonSpirit Health (Episode 59)A national payvider, Humana (Episode 60)To wrap up this series, Sukanya provides a glimpse into the strategy at BCBS MA, the largest health plan in Massachusetts and a mostly commercial-focused payer that serves nearly three million members across New England. Unlike most not-for-profit organizations, BCBS MA pays significant federal, state, and local taxes and assessments. Without soliciting or receiving charitable donations, or benefiting from tax-exempt financing, BCBS MA stays competitive by generating a small margin from operations that it reinvests in its business, people, and technology, and by remaining deeply focuses on the community its serves.In her discussion with Keith, Sukanya shared her outlook on issues including:Shared empathy between operations and innovation. For any head of strategy, serving the immediate needs of an organization is equally as important as anticipating and planning for future demands and market forces. Sukanya discussed how business leaders can sometimes view innovation leaders as out of touch with current realities, while innovation leaders might view business leaders as “dinosaurs.” She talked about the importance of developing a culture of empathy and trust between these groups.Building vs. buying vs. co-designing. To stay competitive against larger, national organizations, regional payers must recognize what they do well and where they should partner with other like-minded entities to augment their capabilities. Sukanya talked about making decisions to partner or co-develop capabilities with others, including sister companies across the Blue Cross Blue Shield Association, as a way of advancing sustainable, non-profit healthcare. She also recognized the challenges with driving meaningful change in affordability, quality and consumer experience without being intimately involved in care delivery, and discussed creative ways of partnering with incumbent health systems or new and innovative care delivery models to make that happen.Changing dynamics in how people access care. One of the biggest changes Sukanya sees occurring over the next decade is the way people access care. She discussed several of the market factors driving this change from the supply and demand of primary care physicians, to Generation Z aging into adulthood. She talked about how healthcare is losing the “quarterback” function as young adults turn to social media, trusted contacts and convenience in place of a strong relationship with a primary provider, and how that impacts strategy.To hear Keith and Sukanya discuss these topics and more, listen to this episode of Healthcare is Hard: A Podcast for Insiders.

The previous two episodes of Healthcare is Hard explored the “new normal” from the provider perspective with heads of strategy at an innovative regional health system, OhioHealth, and one of the nation’s largest, CommonSpirit. For the third episode in this series, Keith Figlioli welcomes Humana’s Chief Strategy and Corporate Development Officer, Dr. Vishal Agrawal, to shift the discussion towards payers and how they’re adjusting to the post-COVID world.Today, Humana is one of the nation’s largest health insurers that also provides payer-agnostic primary care, home health and pharmacy services through its CenterWell brand. However, delivering health care services is not new to Humana. The company’s roots date back to the 1960s where it began as a nursing home business, and by the 1990s, it grew to become the nation’s largest hospital company. While its care delivery assets eventually merged into HCA Healthcare as the company focused on insurance, this deep history provides a unique advantage as the industry continues its shift towards value.In this episode of Healthcare Is Hard, Dr. Agrawal shared some of the strategic priorities for Humana as he helps the organization navigate the new normal in healthcare. These include:Breaking the facility-centric model. The pandemic forced healthcare organizations to think differently about where and how they operate, accelerating the adoption digital and in-home solutions. For Humana, Dr. Agrawal describes how this was a focusing mechanism to help the company think about what it does best, and how it could enhance and integrate those pieces to deliver a more omni-channel approach to healthcare that people desire. This included doubling-down on the primary care, home health and pharmacy services Humana delivers through CenterWell and creating an integrated delivery system with a core focus of keeping people healthy. With this strategy, and a business especially well-suited for the Medicare Advantage payment model, Humana also announced in early 2023 that it would exit the commercial insurance market to focus on government-funded programs.Chronic care management. In a health system that was designed around the fee for service model and does a wonderful job treating conditions for sick care, Dr. Agrawal believes one of the biggest missing pieces is a similar focus on chronic care management. He’s excited about the opportunity for building an integrated delivery network (IDN) that brings together high touch areas that can manage chronic health conditions more proactively, and is optimistic about the ability of the Medicare Advantage model to help push the industry in that direction.Removing waste from the system. Dr. Agrawal points out the extreme waste in the healthcare system – which by some estimates surpasses $1 trillion annually – and how eliminating that waste should be a key focus for everyone. He talks about opportunities for reducing avoidable admissions and ER visits by keeping people healthier and innovating in areas like nephrology, cardiology or oncology where much of the disease and health burden exists.Consumer choice & personalization. Healthcare is intrinsically personal and as a result, requires many different options for people to choose what’s right for them. Dr. Agrawal describes how Humana is tailoring plans to meet these needs and uses the example of the Humana Honors Plan that it built in partnership with USAA around the capabilities of the Veterans Health Administration. He believes we’ll see more customization in areas like this as healthcare becomes a more consumer-driven market. 

CommonSpirit Health is one of the nation’s largest integrated health systems comprising 142 hospitals and 2,200 care sites across 24 states. Three years ago, at the height of the pandemic, CommonSpirit’s Chief Innovation Officer, Rich Roth, and now former CEO, Lloyd Dean, spoke with Keith Figlioli on the Healthcare is Hard podcast to discuss their approach to leading the organization through healthcare’s most challenging times. As the country emerges into a new normal, CommonSpirit’s Chief Strategy Officer, Sheri Shapiro, joins the podcast to discuss how she’s leading this large organization with diverse markets and service lines into the future.Sheri recently joined CommonSpirit to lead strategy in June 2023, undertaking a wide ranging role that spans responsibility for market strategy and development, growth and partnerships, strategy transformation, innovation, marketing and communications, brand management, the international division, sales and payer strategy. She brings more than 20 years of healthcare management consulting, health system leadership and brand management to the position, including seven years leading strategy at another one of the country’s largest health systems, Trinity Health.In this episode of Healthcare Is Hard, Sheri talked to Keith about how she views the new normal and how she’s helping CommonSpirit navigate these uncharted waters. Some of the topics they discussed include:Guiding principles for a large health system. Sheri described the three most important things she evaluates for setting high-level strategy at a large health system. First is defining the common thread that a health system will be known for across all sites – the one unique advantage and competitive differentiator. Second is setting individual market strategies that align with the fundamentally local nature of healthcare delivery. Third is the operating model of the company, which serves as the glue that holds system and market strategy together. Without a model that enables local markets to operate efficiently while leveraging “systemness” and scale, Sheri says a large health system will be unable to execute. Portfolio rebalancing. Sheri talked about how the new normal has been impending for quite some time, citing examples like the shift from inpatient to outpatient starting more than a decade ago and challenges with rising costs growing for even longer. With events including the pandemic accelerating the need to transform, she talked about her beliefs around portfolio management and thinking through how to best deliver every service across the system and in each market. This includes examining the organization’s presence in every market to ensure it’s playing an essential role, and where it’s not, looking for opportunities to transform. Misconceptions of healthcare economics. Most people have a gross misunderstanding of healthcare finance and how different it is than other industries. Sheri discussed the mix of fixed and variable costs in healthcare and the inability to control revenue like other industries can. She used the simple example of restaurants that have trouble hiring and can adapt by paying staff more and raising prices almost immediately – a level of control healthcare providers just don’t have. She says there will have to be a fundamental change in the economic model of healthcare, and without policy reform, she says it will impede the industry’s ability to transform.To hear Keith and Sheri talk about these topics and more, listen to this episode of Healthcare is Hard: A Podcast for Insiders.

There are many reasons why central Ohio is a fertile ground for innovation and why the areas surrounding Columbus are ideal for testing new approaches to consumer behavior. It’s a diverse city with five Fortune 500 companies and 19 Fortune 1,000 companies in a wide range of industries, from banking and insurance to fashion. No single industry contributes more than 18% of GDP and together, they bolster a region that’s experiencing active and sustainable growth. In addition, Columbus has a relatively low cost of living, temperate climate and demographics that are reflective of the country at large. The bottom line is this well-balanced community creates an environment of low volatility that makes it an ideal place to try new things.These attractive attributes extend to healthcare as well. Central Ohio has a diverse payer market where no one payer holds more than a third of market share. Several leading health systems support the community, including OhioHealth, which is one of the largest. OhioHealth is a faith-based, nonprofit system with 35,000 associates, physicians and volunteers, and a network of 14 hospitals, 200+ ambulatory sites, hospice, home health, medical equipment and other health services spanning 47 Ohio counties.As OhioHealth’s Chief Strategy and Transformation Officer, Michael Krouse is responsible for the future direction of the organization and ensuring a strategic framework that delivers operational excellence and growth by meeting consumers’ needs with a diverse portfolio of services. Michael joined OhioHealth as CIO in 2007 after spending the previous 20+ years in healthcare executive roles at UW Medicine, First Consulting Group, E&Y and Arthur Young in the Pacific Northwest.In this episode of Healthcare is Hard, Keith Figlioli spoke with Michael to explore “the new normal” in healthcare and what the industry will look like at it settles into the post-COVID world. Michael discussed his perspective and predictions on the new normal including:The sweet spot of scale. As a $6 billion health system, OhioHealth is a growth company at its core. But Michael says the path to becoming a $20 billion system is not as urgent as it was a few years ago. He points to health system megamergers and the difficulties those organizations have had driving ROI, and discusses how the market is rewarding systems with greater focus.Lumpy operating margins. While volumes are recovering in many places around the country, margins are still inconsistent for most systems and the rebound is not enough to avoid making tough decisions. With margins that are less than what’s required to fund growth and capital for many health systems, Michael foresees the need for major decisions around cost savings and efficiency that will be required for survival.Spinning up new business lines quickly. The healthcare industry is not historically known for quickly or successfully establishing new business lines where it lacks experience. Michael believes this will have to change in the new normal and says one path to success is through partnerships. He discusses examples of OhioHealth’s partnerships with ChenMed, Privia and Devoted Health and how they helped deploy new capabilities far more quickly than doing it alone.Inside innovation ecosystems. Michael shares his strong beliefs on the strategic role venture capital and private equity relationships can have helping health systems anticipate market needs and transform in a way that differentiates them. He talks about OhioHealth’s approach to strategic investing and business incubation, and how it’s always driven by the operational interest of the health system.To hear Keith and Michael talk about these topics and more, listen to this episode of Healthcare is Hard: A Podcast for Insiders.

Before taking responsibility for operational performance of Booz Allen Hamilton – the $9+ billion technology and consulting leader with 32,000+ employees worldwide – Kristine Martin Anderson built a career pioneering healthcare IT. Most notably, she spent nearly 14 years at an early innovator in the space, CareScience, where she helped advance work in quality measurement before overseeing the launch of the nation’s first web-based clinical decision support system for hospitals, and the nation’s first health information exchange, among other groundbreaking initiatives.After CareScience, Kristine joined Booz Allen in 2006 to help grow, and ultimately run, the firm’s healthcare business. Kristine later became president of the firm’s civilian sector and ultimately ascended to her current role as chief operating officer. Nearly all of Booz Allen's business is through government contracts, and its clients include all of the cabinet-level departments of the U.S. federal government, from defense and homeland security, to transportation and public health.Kristine’s extensive work with the government and experiences pioneering healthcare IT put her in a unique position to navigate the complex demands of the healthcare industry. She shared some of her knowledge with Keith Figlioli in this episode of Healthcare is Hard, where they discussed topics including:Advice for winning government contracts. Kristine’s biggest advice for organizations looking to drive healthcare innovation through government contracts is that it’s not a good side gig. She says working with the government is a commitment because it’s a customer with long sales cycles, unique requirements and a need for transparency. But it’s also a big customer, which she says has the best missions and really important tasks that have to get done.How AI adoption will be slow and uneven. Kristine shares the industry’s excitement for artificial intelligence (AI) and its potential to transform healthcare, but offers words of caution around expectations for rapid, widespread adoption. She points to the example of using AI to analyze radiology images – one of the first applications of AI in healthcare – and the fact that it has still only reached 2% of all images. She also predicts and discusses why government policy makers will be more reactive than proactive when it comes to regulating AI innovation.The state of quality measurement. “Culture is eating strategy for lunch in the measurement world,” according to Kristine. She says quality measurement has lost its way as an unintentional consequence of Meaningful Use and the movement towards linking quality measures to health IT. She laments how meaningful data still isn’t available to the public in a way that can help inform personal healthcare decisions and says reporting has become more about getting government incentive for healthcare organizations.Prospects for entrepreneurs. The need for innovation in healthcare is bigger than it has ever been before, and Kristine is optimistic about the ability to empower startups and the people behind them to change the world. Her advice for entrepreneurs is to closely monitor the issues that will affect adoption. She points out how the best ideas don’t always prevail and says that focusing on levers for adoption is just as important as an innovation itself.To hear Keith and Kristine talk about these topics and more, listen to this episode of Healthcare is Hard: A Podcast for Insiders.

Earning a Presidential Management Fellowship after law school gave Kristen McGovern firsthand experience working inside many of the agencies and offices that drive U.S. healthcare policy. Over a two year period with the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) she worked at organizations including the National Cancer Institute and the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority (BARDA). She eventually landed at the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) just as the HITECH Act was signed into law in 2009, dedicating nearly $30 billion to modernizing healthcare IT.As the executive office that oversees the federal budget and federal agencies, Kristen worked closely with leadership at OMB and HHS as they deployed funding for Meaningful Use and other programs catalyzed by the landmark legislation.In 2010, around the same time the Affordable Care Act was passed into law, Kristen was recruited by Farzad Mostashari (a previous guest on the Healthcare is Hard podcast) and became chief of staff at the Office of the National Coordinator for Health IT (ONC).These experiences launched a career that has put Kristen at the forefront of federal healthcare policy and politics. She is currently partner at Sirona Strategies, a healthcare consulting firm she co-founded to advise organizations – from startups to the Fortune 500 – on healthcare policy.Some of the topics Kristen talked to Keith Figlioli about on this episode of the Healthcare is Hard podcast include:A pulse check on DC. Kristen shared insight into the offices and agencies shaping the healthcare industry from inside the beltway. For example, she talked about the current state of the Center for Medicare & Medicaid Innovation (CMMI), the activity she says is happening “below the surface” and how the organization is at an inflection point after more than a decade testing payment and delivery system models.The evolution of Meaningful Use. Looking back at her time at ONC, Kristen talks about the initial goals of encouraging EHR adoption to unlock insight from paper records that were sitting in filing cabinets. She talks about progress the industry has made and the current goals of making sure organizations can access and use data in new and innovative ways. In other words, ensuring we haven’t just created electronic filing cabinets.The size and scope of AI Policy. With all the enthusiasm about artificial intelligence (AI) in healthcare, Kristen talks about the process of putting guardrails around this powerful technology. She says it will require a large-scale collaborative effort across HHS and other government agencies, and believes it will ultimately be an even bigger undertaking than Meaningful Use.Policy advice for startups. As a highly regulated industry, every organization that touches healthcare needs to be aware of the impact current and future policy decisions could have on their business. Kristen shared advice about how she helps startups think through the impact of policy decisions, and when and how to embed policy experts in a business.To hear Keith and Kristen talk about these topics and more, listen to this episode of Healthcare is Hard: A Podcast for Insiders.

Peter Durlach grew up around computers and was exposed to innovative technology at an early age by his father, who helped run a lab in the electronics department at MIT. After graduating college in the 1980s, Peter caught the entrepreneurial bug way before it was cool, and was employee number four at a company developing the first voice user interface for the Macintosh.Peter’s work put him at the center of bringing voice recognition and artificial intelligence (AI) to healthcare – work he continues today as EVP and Chief Strategy officer at Nuance Communications, a Microsoft Company.At Articulate Systems, the first voice recognition company Peter helped build, he and his team eventually recognized that 60% of their user base was physicians dictating medical notes. He helped pivot the company to focus exclusively on healthcare and build the technology that became PowerScribe, a solution still used by most radiologist today.Through acquisitions, Articulate Systems eventually became Nuance. After some time away from the company as a software consultant and running an AI-powered contact center business he sold to Microsoft, Peter was recruited back to Nuance in 2006 to create its healthcare division. By 2019, Nuance was focused on the healthcare and customer engagement market, and in 2022 was acquired by Microsoft for $20 billion.In this episode of Healthcare is Hard, Keith Figlioli builds on earlier conversations with guests like Mayo’s John Halamka and Advocate’s Rasu Shrestha to unpack the hype around AI in healthcare and understand what’s real right now, and what will be in the future. Some of the issue Keith and Peter discussed include:The AI adoption curve. Peter described the different adoption curves he sees for different use cases of AI in healthcare. He talks about how adoption of administrative use cases will happen much faster than clinical applications, and the factors that will influence adoption curves – from performance requirements to governance and patient safety.Use cases that matter. Nuance and Microsoft see one common theme for the application of AI in healthcare – that it should be a copilot and not an autopilot. In the near term, the major focus will be on automating administrative tasks in revenue cycle, payment integrity, documentation or other areas where there is a large labor expense. While automation may be able to accomplish 30% of the work in some areas, and 70% or more in others, the goal is reducing labor while maintaining human oversight. The bar is much higher for clinical use cases, but the same rules apply.Opportunities for startups. Peter shares lessons from his time at startups and the world’s largest technology companies. He talks about how incumbents have an unfair advantage and a “right to win” because of their footprint with trusted clients, and how speed and nimbleness give startups an advantage. He says startups focusing on AI need to understand if they’re supercharging an existing process, or creating a truly new paradigm, because understanding this will dictate their path to success.Governance – Peter talks about the governance and regulatory issues impacting AI adoption and the potential for certifying technology for specific uses, similar to what’s required for pharmaceuticals or software as a medical device. He also discussed how Microsoft is building safeguards within its cloud infrastructure, allowing the ecosystem to stay focused on innovation.To hear Keith and Peter talk about these topics and more, listen to this episode of Healthcare is Hard: A Podcast for Insiders

Many physicians today choose to pivot their careers and apply their clinical knowledge to the innovation and digital transformation side of healthcare. Dr. Rasu Shrestha was an early pioneer of this trend and as he explains, went from “the dark side of radiology to the dork side of informatics” more than two decades ago.In addition to spanning both technical and clinical roles, Dr. Shrestha brings a worldly view of medicine to his work as EVP and Chief Innovation and Commercialization Officer at Advocate Health. He attended college in Malaysia and medical school in India before becoming a visiting fellow in biomedical engineering at Imperial College London and a research fellow in informatics at the University of Southern California, where he also earned his MBA.Among many other positions, Dr. Shrestha also served as Chief Innovation Officer at the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center, and Chief Strategy and Transformation Officer at Atrium Health. After the December 2022 merger of Atrium Health and Advocate Aurora Health, Dr. Shrestha landed in his current role at the newly formed Advocate Health, now one of the nation’s largest nonprofit health systems.In an earlier Healthcare is Hard episode, Scott Powder provided his perspective on the megamerger from the Advocate Aurora side. In this episode, Keith Figlioli talked to Dr. Shrestha to hear his perspective from the Atrium side, and his thoughts on many of the biggest topics driving healthcare transformation. Some of the issue they discussed include:Financial realities in the post-pandemic era. With health systems facing some of their worst financial years ever and confronting an urgent need to transform in fundamental ways, Dr. Shrestha shares his ideas about how they can think differently. He says health systems should move beyond the idea of coopetition to the notion of strategic partnerships done right. He urges health systems to embrace the headwinds and tailwinds of the of the pandemic, while staying grounded in their mission and the reality that the old way of doing things will no longer work.Examining AI with a critical eye. There’s unprecedented excitement around artificial intelligence and generative language models like Chat GPT, but issues like hallucination bias raise serious concerns. As Dr. Shrestha explains, large language models do not really answer questions; they create responses that look like answers. These responses always sound authoritative, which means they always look right, even when they’re wrong. While these technologies will undoubtedly have a role in the future of healthcare, they must be carefully examined and regulated first. Inoculating against the shiny object syndrome. Dr. Shrestha discusses how important it is to separate the hype from the hope in the era of AI and startups promising other breakthrough innovations. To remain grounded, he stays focused on three areas that he explains: moving from transactional to experiential, from a patient-centered to a person-centered approach, and from episodic care to always on 24/7 care.Realizing the benefits of scale. Despite a lot of M&A and market consolidation, Dr. Shrestha talks about how there hasn’t been much success yet realizing the benefits of scale. He shares his thoughts on strategies for driving those benefits and creating value at Advocate Health, and the role innovative startups can play in that journey.To hear Keith and Dr. Shrestha talk about these topics and more, listen to this episode of Healthcare is Hard: A Podcast for Insiders.

Understanding healthcare spending growth in America is a critical component of any initiative attempting to improve care quality and affordability. This holds true for every person or organization focused on improving healthcare – from policy makers, to traditional healthcare incumbents, new entrants, and the entrepreneurs driving digital health innovation.There are few people who understand healthcare economics in the U.S. as well as Michael Chernew, PhD, who has dedicated his career to studying healthcare spending and how it affects the quality of care and outcomes. Dr. Chernew is the Leonard D. Schaeffer Professor of Health Care Policy, and director of the Healthcare Markets and Regulation Lab in the Department of Health Care Policy at Harvard Medical School. Among many other roles, he is also currently serving as the Chair of the Medicare Payment Advisory Commission (MedPAC), an independent agency that advises Congress on costs, payments and other issues affecting the Medicare program.Dr. Chernew’s research examines several areas related to improving the health care system including studies of novel benefit designs, Medicare Advantage, alternative payment models, low value care and the causes and consequences of rising health care spending.In this episode of Healthcare is Hard, Dr. Chernew shares his knowledge with Keith Figlioli in a discussion that touches a broad range of topics around healthcare economics and innovation, including:The false choice between free markets and government intervention. While some people argue for a stronger government role in healthcare, others believe there needs to be better mechanisms to make markets work better. Dr. Chernew says we need to use the power of the markets where we can and sees a lot of potential for innovation to play a role. But he is also skeptical about how much markets can accomplish on their own. He says the most important thing is to recognize that both the government and the markets are flawed, and he talks about the need to understand where flaws exist in order to navigate them.The appetite for disruptive innovation. There are a lot of organizations now that believe they can deliver good population health for less and capture the gains associated with that efficiency. While the effectiveness of these new approaches generally remains to be seen, Dr. Chernew talks about how there are now many mechanisms in place that will allow organizations to accept risk, along with an appetite for innovation that has grown exponentially over the last decade – especially if it can lower spending.Skepticism on the impact of better primary care. There’s a common belief that more and better primary care will ultimately save money because everyone would be healthier. This might be true in some places or situations, but Dr. Chernew says he’s very skeptical of the assertion that it could scale in the current system. He explains how saving money is typically achieved by eliminating low value care and providing high value care more efficiently, and talks about potential alternatives for expanding primary care as it exists today.The high cost of drugs. There’s a lot of disfunction in the drug market in terms of pricing and value, and the way Dr. Chernew explains it, high costs are really financing future innovation. He says there are core debates about how much innovation should be financed, and how much innovation will occur as a result. He talks about options for designing potential structural changes and incentives to address these issues.To hear Keith and Dr. Chernew talk about these topics and more, listen to this episode of Healthcare is Hard: A Podcast for Insiders.

When Joel Vengco started his thesis during the third year of a MD-PhD program, it was the beginning of the end of his time in medical school. It changed his career path and kicked-off what he says is a love for data.The field of Big Data didn’t exist yet, but it’s essentially where Joel was focused. And thanks to a professor who was also the chief scientific officer at Eclipsys (which later merged with Allscripts), Joel had access to extensive datasets to drive his work. He initially found a lot of data in disarray, but he also recognized the future potential for using data to transform the healthcare industry.Joel eventually left medical school in favor of a career chasing healthcare data inside venerable provider and vendor organizations – from Eclipsys and GE Healthcare, to Boston Medical Center, Partners Healthcare, and Baystate Healthcare where he founded the digital health incubator, Techspring. Joel is currently SVP & Chief Information & Digital Officer at Connecticut’s most comprehensive healthcare network, Hartford Healthcare.In this episode of Healthcare is Hard, Joel talks to Keith Figlioli about using data to drive healthcare transformation, his strategies for optimizing technology in a provider organization, and his advice for startups and entrepreneurs. Some of the topics they discuss include:Data liquidity. For people who work with big data, the “5 Vs” that guide success – volume, value, variety, velocity and veracity – are well known. But Joel says another attribute that’s missing and will be increasingly important is liquidity. He talks about how being able to move data from one place to another is essential for creating ecosystems. He talks about how analytic ecosystems, partnership ecosystems, and even startup ecosystems all require data to move freely.Data literacy. Through his various roles, Joel has seen significant differences in the way organizations use data to make decisions. He describes how some providers monitor data retrospectively, while others are using data more like a payer would, especially when those organizations share risk. He talks about a future where organizations understand data at a deeper level and use it to not just “admire the problem” with reports, but to help make the next decision.Technology through an equity lens. In many ways, technologists and developers are designing the future of healthcare. Joel talks about the responsibilities that come along with that, and how he instructs his team to look at everything they build, design and develop through an equity lens. He also discusses recent developments in artificial intelligence, such as ChatGPT, and the need for guardrails to ensure it’s used responsibly.Shifting right. To support the transformation of healthcare, Joel talks about how technology leaders in health systems must move beyond the traditional business of IT. He estimates that the average health system currently invests 90% of its resources on traditional IT work, and only 10% on transformative projects. He calls for a drastic shift and says organizations should get to a place where they’re spending 40% on traditional IT and 60% on transformation.To hear Keith and Joel talk about these topics and more, listen to this episode of Healthcare is Hard: A Podcast for Insiders.

Advocate Health is the nation’s fifth largest nonprofit health system, operating 67 hospitals and more than 1,000 sites of care to generate revenues topping $27 billion.This new entity was formed by combining two like-minded, not-for-profit health systems in December 2022: Midwest-based Advocate Aurora Health and Southeast-based Atrium Health.While this was among the biggest mergers ever in the nonprofit healthcare ecosystem, it wasn’t the first for Scott Powder. In the early 1990s, Scott began working for Evangelical Health System, a pioneer of horizontal integration, which later became Advocate Health Care. Over the next 30+ years serving in various strategy and planning roles, including overseeing the 2018 merger of Advocate Health Care in Illinois and Aurora Health Care in Wisconsin, Scott had a front row seat to the growth and development of the healthcare ecosystem.Scott is now President of Advocate Health Enterprises, where he is responsible for advancing Advocate Health’s whole person health strategy by investing in solutions that complement the health system’s core clinical offerings and broaden its business portfolio.In this episode of Healthcare is Hard, Scott talks to Keith Figlioli about the strategy behind creating Advocate Health, and the market forces driving it. They discuss topics including:The shifting mindset on geography. One of the most unique things about the new Advocate Health is its geographic footprint. While Illinois and Wisconsin are neighboring states, the company now also serves communities much further away in North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia and Alabama through the merger with Atrium. Scott talks about the traditional mentality that all healthcare is local and how he doesn’t believe that is the case anymore. He discusses the role geography still plays in high acuity care, and how technology is enabling so many more elements of healthcare to be delivered practically anywhere. The debate over scale. There’s concern in the market about some health systems becoming too big, and a debate about whether or not these organizations are truly optimizing the value of their scale – or if they ever will.   But Scott points out how scale is relative, especially in a fast-evolving healthcare market. For example, he raises the point that even if the five largest nonprofit health systems in the country were combined, they would still only generate half the revenue of a company like CVS Health or United Health Group, and only a fraction of the revenue of players like Amazon. He also talks about ways health systems can create scale outside of traditional M&A, such as joining forces around issue-specific consortiums.Dual transformation. Scott compares the difficult decisions facing healthcare to other industries like automotive, where companies have made commitments to move away from the core of their business – the internal combustion engine – in favor of investing in electric vehicles of the future. He talks about the capital-intensive demands of operating a core clinical care delivery business, and how challenging it is to divert money from those operations to invest in other areas. But he says it’s the only way incumbent health systems will survive.Care in the home. A lot of Scott’s focus at Advocate Health Enterprises is around a thesis that a person’s home will be a center for care delivery in the future. He believes there will always be a need for hospitals, but that they’ll look very different in the future, and he talks about acquisitions Advocate has made to marry personal care, clinical care and technology in the home.To hear Keith and Scott talk about these topics and more, listen to this episode of Healthcare is Hard: A Podcast for Insiders.

The digital transformation of healthcare has been a long and winding road, but one that is starting to open new possibilities in every aspect of business operations, care delivery and consumer experiences. The critical aspect to all of this is a newfound access to data.Dale Sanders and Ryan Howells have been at the forefront of the movement to unlock data in healthcare and help organization leverage it to actually drive business and clinical performance. As Principal at Leavitt Partners, Ryan works with the White House, Congress, HHS, and VHA on health care policy and interoperability issues. He also currently leads the CARIN Alliance, a multi-sector, public-private alliance focused on giving consumers digital access to their health information. Dale is Chief Strategy officer at Intelligent Medical Objects (IMO) where he closely analyzes market needs and challenges to set IMO’s strategic direction developing products that deliver critical data quality improvements and insights to improve patient care.In this episode of Healthcare is Hard, Keith Figlioli draws on the decades of experience Dale and Ryan have driving healthcare data policy and strategy. Their discussion touches on the intricate details of healthcare data, the everyday impacts that data can have on healthcare consumers, and many points in between. They cover topics including:Entering the “app economy” for healthcare. Ryan points out that almost every other aspect of the consumer world entered the app economy almost 20 years ago. But for healthcare, that transition is just starting. They talk about how the emergence of structured data eliminates the need to rely solely on legacy vendors to solve problems, and the potential it unlocks for creating new, billion dollar companies.Encouraging physicians to stage a riot. The group discusses how quality measures are creating administrative overhead, burning-out physicians, and affecting data quality in ways that many people don’t realize. With revenue streams that are tied to these outdated processes and make them difficult to change, a shift towards measuring outcomes will not be easy. What will it take? Dale says one option he’s encouraging is an uprising among physicians.The B-to-C-to-B data strategy. Data privacy has been a big hurdle to enabling the exchange of EHR data and patient information between organizations. But what if patients have full control of their data and can be the conduit between providers and other organizations? Ryan talks about how this can fundamentally change the issue of data portability by eliminating the need to negotiate and implement complex legal agreements required to exchange data between two organizations. They talk about how this strategy hinges on the ability to verify digital identities.Disrupting EHR incumbents. With so much change on the horizon and data access creating new possibilities for healthcare’s core infrastructure, should incumbent EHR vendors be nervous? Dale says a new enterprise infrastructure in healthcare – a next-gen EHR that’s focused on team-based care, not the encounter – is imperative. And he offers advice on how to get there. Ryan adds his belief that the industry needs a complete new coding system built for value-based care, not fee for service.To hear Keith, Dale and Ryan talk about these topics and more, listen to this episode of Healthcare is Hard: A Podcast for Insiders.

As the world emerges from the pandemic and U.S. health systems navigate a unique set of challenges they’ve never faced before, they’re fighting a battle on two fronts. They don’t have the luxury of dedicating all their resources towards the significant challenges they’re facing today. They also have to stay focused on innovation that will drive future growth, while finding the right balance between these priorities.Health systems can’t make these critical decisions in a vacuum – that’s why the information and expertise they get from Sg2, a Vizient company, is critical. As the nation's largest health care performance improvement company, Vizient serves more than 60% of acute care providers. Sg2 provides these organizations with unparalleled insight into local market dynamics and helps them anticipate healthcare trends that will be key to their success.John Becker leads Vizient’s Strategic Growth Solutions, including Sg2’s Intelligence, Analytics and Advisory Services, and the Vizient Research Institute. In this episode of Healthcare is Hard, John talks to Keith Figlioli about the issues that are top of mind for health system strategy and innovation leaders. They discuss topics including:Post-Covid collaboration. While the pandemic created extremely difficult conditions that persist today for providers, John sees a bright spot in how it taught their leadership teams to work together in different ways. As an example, he talks about how Sg2’s work extends more regularly beyond strategy teams and how those in other leadership roles are thinking differently about the future and their approach to competition.Innovating in a down market. John talks about the need to cut costs due to margin pressures, and the challenge health systems now face making sure they don’t cut areas that will drive future growth. He says he’s starting to see bifurcation in the market where strategy teams are splitting in two. One team is focusing on traditional care delivery and “same store growth,” while the other team works on reimagining the business altogether.The upside and downside of scale. As many health systems converge to drive efficiency through scale, diversification can help larger systems navigate difficult times. However as John points out, bigger ships can weather bigger storms, but it takes them much longer to turn. He says the key is centralizing certain functions and realizing that strategy deployment needs to incorporate the nuances of local markets where things like payer mix, employee base and demographics make a big difference.The CFO’s role in innovation. John says the most successful health systems right now are all finding the right balance around resource allocation, and he points out how the CFO is critical in achieving this. He says those that are too focused on costs are going to miss growth opportunities, and those that are focused too heavily on transformation will have trouble with operations. Carving out dollars to reimagine the business, while funding the core business at the appropriate level is a delicate balance, and one that savvy leadership teams are finding.To hear Keith and John talk about these topics and more, listen to this episode of Healthcare is Hard: A Podcast for Insiders.

It’s a difficult time for health systems who are struggling with financial pressures brought on by rising costs, patient volumes that continue to remain below pre-pandemic levels, and a host of other issues putting their balance sheets in the red. But at the same time, the need for innovation has never been greater. New technology will be essential to streamline operations and meet consumer demand for new care delivery models while staying ahead of big tech, retailers and others adding pressure for providers to evolve and transform.How can providers focus on getting business fundamentals back in order, while also looking to the future and accelerating their focus on innovation?On this episode of Healthcare is Hard, Sara Vaezy, chief strategy and digital officer at Providence, talked to Keith Figlioli about the need to address both of these issues at once – and how to do it. Some of the topics they cover include:New economics for providers. While there may have been an initial hope about getting through the pandemic and getting “back to normal,” it’s now clear that the fundamental economics of healthcare – especially for providers – will never be the same. Sara says the industry is starting to get comfortable with the notion that provider economics have eroded in a long lasting way. Recognizing this fact and finding new ways to diversify will be essential for providers to thrive.Building beyond acute care. Health systems are being forced to choose if they want to focus on being the center of acute care in their communities and be part of a larger network of services, or broaden beyond that to provide more elements of the network themselves. Sara says not every hospital or health system has the resources to expand on their own, but sees Providence on a path to becoming a “health company with a care delivery arm.” She talked about how this model could even give providers national scale, as opposed to operating within a geographic footprint.The importance of partners. Innovation is essential for every health system in one way or another, and Sara admits that it’s hard to do on your own. Those who cannot drive meaningful innovation themselves will be forced to consolidate or partner with others. Those who can and have been driving innovation will continue to do so, but Sara predicts that even they will form more innovation consortia and financing partnerships to focus on key areas where reach and scale will create a more efficient cost structure for innovation. This will also create more opportunities for entrepreneurs to work directly for or with health systems.The advantage of incumbents. It’s easy to be critical of healthcare incumbents, but Sara points out how important it is to not forget that they still deliver the vast amount of care at scale in the U.S. This is a significant advantage that can be amplified even more when incumbents work together. As she says several times, it’s difficult to drive innovation and the transformation of healthcare alone. Collaboration will be critical.To hear Keith and Sara talk about these topics and more, listen to this episode of Healthcare is Hard: A Podcast for Insiders.

Tim Kosiba was first exposed to the healthcare industry while working at the FBI in the 1990s as part of its Computer Analysis Response Team (CART). For more than 30 years, he worked at the highest levels of government driving the cybersecurity, digital intelligence and offensive cyber practices that keep the country’s critical infrastructure safe.Tim started his career in the Navy, working for the organization now known as the Naval Criminal Investigative Service (NCIS), where he was successfully investigating digital crimes before the field of computer forensics was even established. In this role, he collaborated frequently with, and was soon asked to join the FBI, which was building its Computer Analysis Response Team (CART) to pioneer processes for investigating computer crimes and examining digital evidence.At the FBI, Tim worked closely with the National Security Agency, until he was asked to join the NSA directly. After more than a decade serving both domestically and abroad, Tim left NSA and joined the private sector to help advance the collaboration between public and private organizations on national cybersecurity interests.Tim now works closely with the American Hospital Association and healthcare organizations across the country as CEO at bracket f, a wholly owned subsidiary of [redacted]. And yes, “[redacted]” is the company’s name – it’s a startup built by a team of cybersecurity veterans with resumes that rival Tim’s. The company is focused on leveling the playing field by identifying and stopping threats, legally pursuing attackers, and bringing cybercriminals to justice.In this episode of Healthcare is Hard, Tim shares some of his insider knowledge with Keith Figlioli on topics of growing urgency for everyone in the healthcare industry – from providers, payers and life science companies, to the innovative startups transforming healthcare. Issues they discuss include:The state of healthcare cybersecurity. Tim says the healthcare industry has a lot of catching up to do. Unlike other industries, where security has always been part of the equation, the fact that security was not a primary concern when digitizing medical institutions has put healthcare behind. While he says things will get worse before they get better, Tim is optimistic for the future and sees positive activity like increased public/private partnerships. For example, he cites efforts to declassify more information and share it in a way that doesn’t divulge sources and methods so the industry can use it to be better prepared.Who’s attacking healthcare and why. The trend is very specific, according to Tim. He says it’s primarily state sponsored groups, often based in Russia. Some groups are directly sponsored by the state, while others are simply allowed to operate with impunity. The motivation is usually cash or chaos. After all, healthcare is part of a nation’s critical infrastructure and disrupting it can cause havoc and hardship, compromise intellectual property and much more.Implementing the basics. Tim recognizes the challenges healthcare faces balancing security with the demand for better consumer experiences. But he points out that many hospitals he works with don’t have cyber security basics in place, like incident response plans, penetration testing or two-factor authentication. He says there’s a knowledge problem, but it’s something that can’t be addressed until the industry accepts the cost of cybersecurity. As cyber insurance becomes hard to get and insurers mandate procedures like two-factor authentication, he says it may cause the tipping point we need.To hear Keith and Tim talk about these topics and more, listen to this episode of Healthcare is Hard: A Podcast for Insiders.

Marcus Osborne started his professional life as a White House intern and never intended to pursue a career in healthcare. In fact, he says he has a phobia of needles and doesn’t find much pleasure in daily work dealing with issues like insurance and disease. But he says healthcare kept finding him, and he admits that no other sector has more need for good, talented people trying their best to make progress.After a couple jobs in business consulting and time as Chief Financial Officer for the Clinton Foundation’s Health Access Initiative, Marcus landed at Walmart, where he ultimately became Senior Vice President of Healthcare Transformation. In January 2022, he stepped down from that role after spending 15 years at the world’s largest retailer driving key initiatives to increase healthcare access and affordability, including helping to launch Walmart Health and leading Walmart Health clinics.In this episode of Healthcare is Hard, Keith Figlioli taps into the knowledge and experience Marcus has gained through his career to explore issues including: Viewing healthcare through the consumer’s eyes. Looking back on his time at Walmart, Marcus says it was the best place to work on transforming healthcare since it is fundamentally a consumer company. But he also says it was sometimes the worst place given all the other competing priorities outside of healthcare at such a large organization. Marcus credits some of his biggest successes to one simple idea – that consumers are very clear about what they want, and what their challenges are. You just have to listen, and deliver.Retailer acquisitions. In addition to shedding light on the inner workings of Walmart and its ambitions to grow in the healthcare market, Marcus talks about the moves other retailers, including Amazon and CVS, are making through acquisitions. He views Amazon’s acquisition of One Medical as a Brilliant move that gives the company excellent operating talent around primary care, a physical presence to continue building the omnichannel healthcare experience, and strong value-based care components through One Medical’s earlier acquisition of Iora Health. He says the strategy is a home run, and talks about how it now comes down to integrating and execution.The future for health systems. Marcus and Keith talk about the idea of a health system as a community integrator. Instead of owning assets, they ponder the benefits for health systems that get better at partnering with outside organizations in deeper, more collaborative ways. For example, as the industry moves towards value-based care beyond Medicare, Marcus sees a big opportunity for health systems to create more efficiencies by being the community integrator around specialty practices in areas such as cardiology, maternity or musculosketal health.The opportunities for entrepreneurs: The great news for entrepreneurs, according to Marcus, is that the big players are far from figuring everything out. He compares the current state of healthcare innovation to the Internet in the 1990s where there was a tremendous amount of innovation and companies were focused on developing the best point solutions. For example, there were dozens of search engines, from Yahoo, to Google, Excite, Alta Vista, Ask Jeeves and many more. But Google ultimately emerged to unify the back end of search for everyone. Today in healthcare, Marcus points out how it’s becoming harder for consumers to learn how to deal with all the individual solutions in the market, and says they’re starting to look for someone to integrate everything for them.To hear Keith and Marcus talk about these topics and more, listen to this episode of Healthcare is Hard: A Podcast for Insiders.