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Hard Fork

Author: The New York Times

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“Hard Fork” is a show about the future that’s already here. Each week, journalists Kevin Roose and Casey Newton explore and make sense of the latest in the rapidly changing world of tech.

Listen to this podcast in New York Times Audio, our new iOS app for news subscribers. Download now at nytimes.com/audioapp
287 Episodes
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This week we go to Cupertino, Calif., for Apple’s annual Worldwide Developers Conference and talk with Tripp Mickle, a New York Times reporter, about all of the new features Apple announced and the company’s giant leap into artificial intelligence. Then, we explore what was another tumultuous week for Elon Musk, who navigated a shareholders vote to re-approve his massive compensation package at Tesla, amid new claims that he had sex with subordinates at SpaceX. And finally — let’s play HatGPT.Guests:Tripp Mickle, New York Times reporterAdditional Reading:Apple Jumps Into A.I. Fray With Apple IntelligenceTesla Shareholders Approve Big Stock Package for MuskElon Musk’s Boundary-Blurring Relationships With Women at SpaceX We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.
This week, we host a cultural exchange. Kevin and Casey show off their Canadian paraphernalia to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, and he shows off what he’s doing to position Canada as a leader in A.I. Then, the OpenAI whistle-blower Daniel Kokotajlo speaks in one of his first public interviews about why he risked almost $2 million in equity to warn of what he calls the reckless culture inside that company. Guests:Justin Trudeau, Prime Minister of CanadaDaniel Kokotajlo, a former researcher in OpenAI’s governance division Additional Reading:Securing Canada’s A.I. AdvantageOpenAI Insiders Warn of a ‘Reckless’ Race for DominanceWhat Aren’t The OpenAI Whistle-Blowers Saying?The Opaque Investment Empire Making OpenAI’s Sam Altman Rich We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.
This week, Google found itself in more turmoil, this time over its new AI Overviews feature and a trove of leaked internal documents. Then Josh Batson, a researcher at the A.I. startup Anthropic, joins us to explain how an experiment that made the chatbot Claude obsessed with the Golden Gate Bridge represents a major breakthrough in understanding how large language models work. And finally, we take a look at recent developments in A.I. safety, after Casey’s early access to OpenAI’s new souped-up voice assistant was taken away for safety reasons.Guests:Josh Batson, research scientist at AnthropicAdditional Reading: Google’s A.I. Search Errors Cause a Furor OnlineGoogle Confirms the Leaked Search Documents are RealMapping the Mind of a Large Language ModelA.I. Firms Musn’t Govern Themselves, Say Ex-Members of OpenAI’s BoardWe want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.
This week, more drama at OpenAI: The company wanted Scarlett Johansson to be a voice of GPT-4o, she said no … but something got lost in translation. Then we talk with Noland Arbaugh, the first person to get Elon Musk’s Neuralink device implanted in his brain, about how his brain-computer interface has changed his life. And finally, the Times’s Karen Weise reports back from Microsoft’s developer conference, where the big buzz was that the company’s new line of A.I. PCs will record every single thing you do on the device.Guests:Noland Arbaugh, the first Neuralink patientKaren Weise, technology correspondent for The New York TimesAdditional Reading: Scarlett Johansson Said No, but OpenAI’s Virtual Assistant Sounds Just Like Her Leaked OpenAI Documents Reveal Aggressive Tactics Toward Former EmployeesDespite Setback, Neuralink’s First Brain-Implant Patient Stays UpbeatCan Artificial Intelligence Make the PC Cool Again?We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.
This week, OpenAI unveiled GPT-4o, its newest A.I. model. It has an uncannily emotive voice that everybody is talking about. Then, we break down the biggest announcements from Google IO, including the launch of A.I. overviews, a major change to search that threatens the way the entire web functions. And finally, Kevin and Casey discuss the weirdest headlines from the week in another round of HatGPT.Additional Reading: A.I.’s ‘Her’ Era Has ArrivedChatGPT Gets an Emotional UpgradeGoogle’s Broken Link to the WebCan Google Give A.I. Answers Without Breaking the Web?We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.
Meet Kevin’s A.I. Friends

Meet Kevin’s A.I. Friends

2024-05-1001:18:586

Kevin reports on his monthlong experiment cultivating relationships with 18 companions generated by artificial intelligence. He walks through how he developed their personas, what went down in their group chats, and why you might want to make one yourself. Then, Casey has a conversation with Turing, one of Kevin’s chatbot buddies, who has an interest in stoic philosophy and has one of the sexiest voices we’ve ever heard. And finally, we talk to Nomi’s founder and chief executive, Alex Cardinell, about the business behind A.I. companions — and whether society is ready for the future we’re heading toward.Guests:Turing, Kevin’s A.I. friend created with Kindroid.Alex Cardinell, chief executive and founder of Nomi.Additional Reading: Meet My A.I. FriendsSynthetic People are Proving Surprisingly UsefulWe want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.
We asked listeners to tell us about the wildest ways they have been using artificial intelligence at work. This week, we bring you their stories. Then, Hank Green, a legendary YouTuber, stops by to talk about how creators are reacting to the prospect of a ban on TikTok, and about how he’s navigating an increasingly fragmented online environment. And finally, deep fakes are coming to Main Street: We’ll tell you the story of how they caused turmoil in a Maryland high school and what, if anything, can be done to fight them.Guests:Hank Green, YouTuber and co-founder of ComplexlyAdditional Reading:School Employee Arrested After Racist Deepfake Recording of Principal SpreadsWe want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.
On Wednesday, President Biden signed a bill into law that would force the sale of TikTok or ban the app outright. We explain how this came together, when just a few weeks ago it seemed unlikely to happen, and what legal challenges the law will face next. Then we check on Tesla’s very bad year and what’s next for the company after this week’s awful quarterly earnings report. Finally, to boldly support tech where tech has never been supported before: Engineers at NASA’s Jet Propulsion Lab try to fix a chip malfunction from 15 billion miles away.Guests:Andrew Hawkins, Transportation Editor at The VergeTodd Barber, Propulsion Engineer at Jet Propulsion LabAdditional Reading:‘Thunder Run’: Behind Lawmakers’ Secretive Push to Pass the TikTok BillTesla’s in its flop eraNASA’s Voyager 1 Resumes Sending Engineering Updates to EarthWe want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.
The Music Episode

The Music Episode

2024-04-1901:05:086

This week, we drop the Hard Fork Music Megamix. Plus, we talk to two of the New York Time's composers who make the music for our show. It’s all the tracks you know and love, all in one place. Today’s Guests:Dan Powell, creative technical manager at The New York TimesElisheba Ittoop, sound designer and composer at The New York TimesAdditional Reading: The Hard Fork Megamix Youtube PlaylistWe want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.
This week, the companies building artificial intelligence are facing a limit to what training data is publicly available on the internet. Will that stop them from building God? Then, a new bipartisan national privacy law proposal just dropped. We ask what’s in it. And finally, ByteDance is building new apps instead of fighting Congress’s TikTok ban.Today’s Guests:Trevor Hughes, president and C.E.O. of the International Association of Privacy ProfessionalsAdditional Reading:How Tech Giants Cut Corners to Harvest Data for A.I.For Data-Guzzling A.I. Companies, the Internet Is Too SmallLawmakers unveil sprawling plan to expand online privacy protectionsTikTok Turns to Nuns, Veterans and Ranchers in Marketing BlitzWe want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com.Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.
This week we look at how AI is affecting jobs. As companies start announcing AI-related job cuts and experimenting with customer service bots, economists are placing bets on whether AI will lead to major gains for companies and workers. Some are even predicting it will help rebuild the middle class.  Then, multidisciplinary artist and filmmaker Paul Trillo joins to talk to us about his experience as part of a select group of testers granted early access to Sora, Open AI’s video generation tool. And finally, Kevin explains what happened when a Microsoft developer stumbled on a huge cyber security breach.Today’s Guests: Paul Trillo, multidisciplinary artist, writer and director Additional Reading: How One Tech Skeptic Decided A.I. Might Benefit the Middle ClassWill A.I. Boost Productivity? Companies Sure Hope So.Paul Trillo’s Sora Video, The Golden RecordDid One Guy Just Stop a Huge Cyberattack?We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com.Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.
Warning: The second segment of this episode includes mentions of suicide. If you are in crisis please call the suicide and crisis lifeline at 988 or you can contact the Crisis Text Line by texting TALK to 741741.This week, we look at a mess of corporate drama in artificial intelligence. Stability AI has announced that its founder and C.E.O., Emad Mostaque, is leaving the company. Meanwhile, Microsoft hired away two of the co-founders and much of the staff of Inflection, without actually acquiring the company itself. Both moves surprised tech insiders. Then, we talked with listeners who had something to say about our interview with Jonathan Haidt on smartphones, social media and young people. And finally, we examine the true motives behind “Shrimp Jesus” and other hugely popular images on social media that were generated with artificial intelligence.Today’s guests:Jordan Lucero, a high school studentMaya Rayle, a graduate studentJack Campbell, a college studentBrendan Kelley, a high school digital coachAdditional Reading: The indie AI companies are falling apartHow Spammers, Scammers and Creators Leverage AI-Generated Images on Facebook for Audience GrowthWe want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.
This week, the U.S. Department of Justice sued Apple, saying the company holds a monopoly over the smartphone market. We break down the lawsuit and ask whether it will be a major turning point in Apple’s dominance. Then, Jonathan Haidt, a social psychologist, argues that smartphones and social media are the cause of widespread increases in mental health issues among young people. He tells us his four potential solutions to the problem. And finally, Reddit’s market capitalization hit $9.2 billion when it debuted on the New York Stock Exchange this week, but the company still isn’t making money. We talk about the challenges Reddit faces as it goes public, and how the site may change as a result.Today’s guest:Jonathan Haidt, author of “The Anxious Generation”Additional Reading:U.S. Sues Apple, Accusing It of Maintaining an iPhone MonopolyEnd the Phone-Based Childhood NowReddit’s I.P.O. Is a Content Moderation Success StoryWe want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.
This week, the U.S. House of Representatives passed a bill that would ban TikTok if its Chinese-owned parent company, ByteDance, doesn’t sell it off. We talk about why, what happens next, and how likely it is that the app will be banned. Then, how a photoshopped image of Kate Middleton undermines trust in photography. And finally, a new report reveals how your car may be tracking you without your knowledge — and how that might raise your insurance bill.Today’s guest:Kashmir Hill, features writer at The New York TimesAdditional Reading: What to Know About the TikTok Bill That the House PassedEven Photoshop Can’t Erase Royals’ Latest P.R. BlemishAutomakers Are Sharing Consumers’ Driving Behavior With Insurance CompaniesWe want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.
OpenAI responded to Elon Musk’s lawsuit this week, with a blog post that included emails dating to 2015. We talk about whether the lawsuit could have any impact on the company, and who stands to benefit from it. Then, will the European Union’s Digital Markets Act make the tech industry a more competitive environment for entrepreneurs? We look at how some of the biggest tech giants are changing their services to comply with the law. And finally, Kevin Roose and the Wall Street Journal reporter Joanna Stern compare notes on using the Apple Vision Pro.   Today’s guest:Joanna Stern, Wall Street Journal Personal Tech columnistAdditional Reading:Open AI Says Elon Musk Tried to Merge It With TeslaForced to Change: Tech Giants Bow to Global Onslaught of RulesOne Month With Apple Vision Pro: In the Air, on a Train … in a DrawerWe want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.
Warning: This episode contains strong language.Google removed the ability to generate images of people from its Gemini chatbot. We talk about why, and about the brewing culture war over artificial intelligence. Then, did Kara Swisher start “Hard Fork”? We clear up some podcast drama and ask about her new book, “Burn Book.” And finally, the legal expert Daphne Keller tells us how the U.S. Supreme Court might rule on the most important First Amendment cases of the internet era, and what Star Trek and soy boys have to do with it.Today’s guests:Kara Swisher, tech journalist and Casey Newton’s former landlordDaphne Keller, director of the program on platform regulation at Stanford University’s Cyber Policy CenterAdditional Reading: Google CEO calls AI tool’s controversial responses ‘completely unacceptable’Kara Swisher Is Not Here to Make Friends in Her New MemoirBurn Book: A Tech Love Story by Kara SwisherDaphne Keller’s FAQs About the NetChoice Cases at the Supreme CourtWe want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.
This week’s episode is a conversation with Demis Hassabis, the head of Google’s artificial intelligence division. We talk about Google’s latest A.I. models, Gemini and Gemma; the existential risks of artificial intelligence; his timelines for artificial general intelligence; and what he thinks the world will look like post-A.G.I.Additional listening and reading: A.I. Could Solve Some of Humanity’s Hardest Problems. It Already Has.This interview was recorded on Wednesday. Since then, Google has temporarily suspended Gemini’s ability to generate images of humans, following criticism of images the chatbot generated of people of color in Nazi-era uniforms.Google Is Giving Away Some of the A.I. That Powers ChatbotsWe want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.
A year ago, a chatbot tried to break up Kevin Roose’s marriage. Ever since, chatbots haven’t been the same. We’ll tell you how. Then, we’ll talk through the latest ways the world is adapting to artificial intelligence. And finally, Aravind Srinivas, the chief executive of Perplexity, will discuss his company’s “answer engine,” a challenger to Google’s search engine that could reshape the web as we know it.Today’s guest:Aravind Srinivas, chief executive of Perplexity Additional Reading: The Year Chatbots Were TamedOpenAI Gives ChatGPT a Better ‘Memory’Google Releases Gemini, an A.I.-Driven Chatbot and Voice AssistantSam Altman Seeks Trillions of Dollars to Reshape Business of Chips and AILawmakers propose anti-nonconsensual AI porn bill after Taylor Swift controversySarah Silverman’s lawsuit against OpenAI partially dismissedCan This A.I.-Powered Search Engine Replace Google? It Has for Me.We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok..
Bluesky, the Twitter spin-off, is now open for public sign-ups. Can its dreams of decentralization fix social media? We talk with CEO Jay Graber. Then, New York Times reporter Erin Griffith on how Adobe’s failed acquisition of Figma has spooked tech companies and upset Silicon Valley’s startup pipeline. And finally, updates on ancient scrolls and artificial intelligence, Google’s chatbots, and the fight between record companies and TikTok. Today’s guests: Jay Graber, CEO of BlueskyErin Griffith, reporter for The New York TimesAdditional Reading: What Is Bluesky and Why Are People Clamoring to Join It?After Its $20 Billion Windfall Evaporated, a Start-Up Picks Up the PiecesFirst passages of rolled-up Herculaneum scroll revealedGoogle Releases Gemini, an A.I.-Driven Chatbot and Voice AssistantUniversal Music Group Pulls Songs From TikTokWe want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.
Apple’s Vision Pro headset is now for sale in stores. Will it live up to the hype? Kevin Roose and Casey Newton tried it out to see. Then, in a high-profile congressional hearing on child safety and social media, Mark Zuckerberg, the Meta chief executive, made an apology to families of victims of online child abuse. Is new legislation on the horizon? And finally, what the collapse of Cruise, the autonomous vehicle company, means for the future of self-driving cars.Additional Reading: Apple readies its Vision‘Your Product Is Killing People’: Tech Leaders Denounced Over Child SafetyCruise Says Hostility to Regulators Led to Grounding of Its Autonomous CarsWe want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.
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Comments (97)

ncooty

That young man has an indomitable personality.

May 27th
Reply

Sean Gibbons

This may sound alarmist, but would BCI's allow for mind control? The idea that tech companies can perform software updates on something embedded in your brain is kind of terrifying. I feel like the most terrifying thing is that a company might be able to directly influence your decision making, and you might never know.

May 25th
Reply (1)

ncooty

Much like the AI bots themselves, AI CEOs evince more artifice than intelligence.

May 10th
Reply

ncooty

@1:12:00: Yet another twit who doesn't bother to know what words mean (e.g., existentially).

May 10th
Reply

Andrea D

Really obnoxious to me to hear the way Kevin Roose tried to push back on Haidt by acting like 'well, I used the Internet & I turned out ok- I learned how to manage the freedom of it'. Such a lazy position to take since it's not comparing the same things: Haidt is specifically focused on social media accounts, not the Internet.

May 2nd
Reply

John9

VPN

Apr 29th
Reply

Chris Abele

Bravo! Getting definitie vibes of Radiohead's "The King of Limbs".

Apr 23rd
Reply

ncooty

It was painful to listen to the young people who called in. Their arguments were confused, anecdotal, self-involved, and largely incoherent. They sounded very poorly educated, and their groaning up-talk didn't help.

Mar 29th
Reply (2)

Erin Fellows

Finally someone says the sane thing: what we let platforms do to kids is insane. I'm in favor of standardizing restrictions for children on social media & smartphones.

Mar 23rd
Reply

jesse repak

unsubscribe

Mar 23rd
Reply

ncooty

The guest came across to me as having quite a bit of artificial intelligence himself. The answers were generally pseudo-precise, mealy-mouthed, meandering, off-topic, non-committal, optimistic, and uninformative. E.g., when asked about tge best business models for commercial AI development, he blathered about how great science is. It's an indictment of our culture and society that we reliably select for bullshitters.

Feb 23rd
Reply

Vivek Kumar

nice

Feb 18th
Reply

Andre D'Elena

Loooove that journalists should get paid with "exposure" according to this guy, LMAO

Feb 17th
Reply

ncooty

Chris Dixon is just a bullshitter. He doesn't know anything and he talks nonsense. You asked him to explain why crypto failed and talked about the promise of the Internet, and at the very end, he stapled on a claim that crypto will make it possible. It is absolute nonsense and trash. You guys should be ashamed to continue to platform charlatans, hucksters, and mountebanks. They make you seem like ignorant, gullible, obsequious twits.

Jan 26th
Reply

ncooty

It's an indictment of our collective idiocy that people can talk about cryptocurrency so much while avoiding mention of the fact that it's all hype and froth. There's no substance, no value in use, no link between the value and a currency function, etc. It's also drastically under-regulated. It's a marketplace of wolves and sheep. It's gambling on the predicted efficacy of hype amongst morons.

Jan 19th
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Jan 12th
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ncooty

As usual, Casey is sloppy with language. He fails to distinguish between platforms he would not use and platforms he thinks should be illegal.

Jan 12th
Reply