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Taming Lightning

Author: Percy Echols II

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Welcome back or welcome to the Taming Lightning Podcast, I'm Percy Echols II. I'm the creator and host of Taming Lightning, as well as emerging Plasma Tech at Pittsburgh Glass Center, where I'm researching and developing a space for exploring Plasma and Neon Light.

Taming Lightning Podcast is a series of conversations to help expand our understanding of Plasma and Neon Light - looking beyond it's associations with novelty and sign making, and to explore the potential for Noble Gases as an artistic medium with each guest sharing their unique knowledge and experience.
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Blog: www.taminglightning.net Instagram @taminglightning Support on Patreon.com/taminglightning  💰This episode is sponsored by Corning Museum of Glass! Hello Lightning Tamers, Percy here, this is episode number 64! In today's podcast, I'm excited to welcome Rïse Peacock, an artist, curator, and educator with over a decade of experience in the educational and nonprofit art sectors. Currently the first Curatorial Fellow of Postwar and Contemporary Glass at the Corning Museum of Glass. Rïse approaches curating, teaching, and artmaking from an interdisciplinary perspective, with a specific focus on queer histories, material culture, and luminous phenomena. They have curated notable exhibitions such as Big Mood and the Women Create Biennial in Jamestown, NY. Today, we'll dive into Rïse's curatorial work, their artistic journey, and their fascination with light-based art, including the significance of Geissler tubes CMoG's collection. Welcome to the podcast Rïse Peacock!   Music Credits Preview - Retro by ONE  The opening theme -Taming Lightning by Trav B. Ryan    Spoonsor - Good2Go by ONE  Credits - Walking by Ras-Hop Episode Time Stamps [0:31] Sponsored by the Corning Museum [1:52] Introducing Rise Peacock [4:13] The Role of a Curatorial Fellow [7:59] Exhibition Development and Artist Advocacy [9:31] Understanding Geissler Tubes [15:09] Historical Significance of Geyser Tubes [19:58] Geissler Tubes and Artistic Practice [24:02] The Intersection of Art and Curation [27:32] Exploring Luminous Phenomena [32:24] Materiality and Light in Art [36:51] Navigating Interdisciplinary Practices [41:36] Curatorial Challenges with Light Works [47:14] Merging Art and Curation [49:50] Dismantling the Curatorial Lore   Attachments
Blog: www.taminglightning.net Instagram @taminglightning Support on Patreon.com/taminglightning Guest Instagram: @dani.kaes   Hello, Lightning Tamers! Percy here, and welcome to episode 63 of the Taming Lightning Podcast. Today, I'm thrilled to chat with "Dani" Kaes, a talented light artist and educator based in Seattle, Washington. With a degree in Biochemistry from the University of Puget Sound, Dani brings a scientific lens to her neon practice. She's also a passionate educator, deeply committed to open access to information, ensuring the neon community continues to grow and evolve, sharing her knowledge at places like Pilchuck Glass School, the Museum of Neon Art, and the Glass Art Society. In this episode, we'll take a lightning round of different topics—like how different gases influence the colors we see in neon art, why color theory is such a big part of the process, and nd the science behind vacuum systems and gas mixtures.  We'll also get into some of the more technical topics like getters (or whatever Dani prefers to call them), Penning mixtures, and ionization efficiency—but don't worry, Dani has a knack for making it all easy to follow. We'll also hear how her scientific background has shaped her artistic approach, the questions in neon she's still curious to explore, and—of course—we'll talk The Boy, her energetic furball of feline who's always by her side. So, settle in for a great conversation with someone who's not just making neon art but also advancing the craft with curiosity, humor, and a scientific edge.  Welcome to the podcast, Dani Kaes!   Time Stamps [0:28] Introduction to Dani Kays [4:19] Dani's Artistic Journey [7:01] Exploring Color Theory [11:06] The Science of Gases [16:41]Understanding O-Rings [19:17] Getters in Neon Production [22:59] The Impact of Temperature [26:09] Gas Mixtures and Their Effects [31:12] The Boy: Dani's Feline Companion [39:48] Closing Thoughts and Future Episodes Music credits Preview - Retro by ONE  The opening theme -Taming Lightning by Trav B. Ryan    Credits - Walking by Ras-Hop
Blog: www.taminglightning.net Instagram @taminglightning Support on Patreon.com/taminglightning Guest Instagram: @willcox.studio Hello Lightning Tamers, Percy here, and this is episode number 62. In today's podcast, I'll be joined by Jacob Willcox a young and experienced neon bender, artist, and educator from Tacoma, Washington. Jacob's journey with glass and light began in 2012 through the Hilltop Artists program. He went on to earn his BFA with concentrations in glass and neon from Alfred University in 2021. Currently, Jacob works in sales at a sign shop, where he continues to blend his artistic insights with his professional role.   So, get ready to dive into an illuminating conversation as we explore Jacob's artistic journey, the balance between creativity and business, and his unique perspective on the future of neon in the modern world of signage. Welcome to the podcast Jacob Willcox!   Time Stamps [0:54] Introduction to Neon and Jacob's Journey [2:17] Class Reflections and Experiences [6:46] Transition to Professional Neon Bending [10:36] The Allure of Neon [13:31] Balancing Multiple Roles [20:47] Bridging Art and Signage [23:29] Perspectives on LED vs. Neon [27:53] Future Visions for Neon Art [29:54] The Importance of Community Accessibility [32:31] Conclusion and Gratitude Music credits Preview - Retro by ONE  The opening theme -Taming Lightning by Trav B. Ryan    Credits - Walking by Ras-Hop
Blog: www.taminglightning.net Instagram @taminglightning Support on Patreon.com/taminglightning Guest: www.studioswine.com Instagram: @studioswine Hello lightning Tamers this is episode number 61. And in today's podcast, I'll be joined by Alexander Groves one half of the duo known as Studio Swine. Alex and their partner Azuza Murakami had decided to make this arrangement to manage tending to the lovely family they are raising. Just incase anyone is wondering! Who are Studio Swine?  The SWINE in Studio Swine, an acronym for "Super Wide Interdisciplinary New Explorers," is a pioneering collective founded in 2011 by Azusa Murakami (JP) and Alexander Groves (UK). Their collaborative journey traverses the realms of art, design, and technology, forging new frontiers in the exploration of light, materials, and human experience. In this episode, we'll dive into the mesmerizing world of neon and plasma artworks, exploring Studio Swine's fascination with light and materials. From their thought-provoking installations like "Wave. Particle. Duplex." to their upcoming neon installation in South Korea, Alexander will share their insights, inspirations, and the challenges of working at the intersection of art and technology. Join us as we unravel the creative journey of Studio Swine, where innovation meets imagination and the possibilities are limitless. Welcome to the podcast Alexander!   Time Stamps [0:53] Meet Studio Swine [2:58] The Art of Curiosity [7:16] Exploring Materiality and Audience [7:48] The Journey of Studio Swine [10:19] Ephemeral Tech Explained [26:33] Collaborating with Experts [27:53] The Community of Neon Artists [29:18] The Allure of Plasma [31:59] The Power of Experience [40:17] Under a Flowing Field [49:36] Balancing Safety and Creativity [59:28] The Art of Learning [1:05:48] Taming the Invisible World
Blog: www.taminglightning.net Instagram @taminglightning Support on Patreon.com/taminglightning Guest: www.Kacielees.com Instagram: @kacielees and @neonprimer Hello lightning Tamers this is episode number 60. Today, we have the pleasure of diving into the fascinating world of light and art with the incredible Kacie Lees. Born in St. Louis in 1986, Kacie has emerged as a prominent figure in the art scene, leaving her mark in Brooklyn, Chicago, and Los Angeles. With a BFA from the School of the Art Institute of Chicago and an MFA from the School of Visual Arts in New York, Kacie's artistic journey is nothing short of inspiring. As a dedicated teaching artist at NYU and SAIC, in addition to Museum of Neon Art and Urban Glass, she not only creates mesmerizing works but also imparts her knowledge to the next generation of artists. Her recently published book, "Neon Primer: A Handbook on Light Construction," has become a cornerstone in understanding the intricate world of neon bending. In this episode, we'll explore Kacie's creative process, the influences behind her work, and the profound impact of light on art. Stay tuned for a captivating conversation with Kacie Lees, a true luminary in the world of contemporary art. Welcome to the podcast Kacie Lees ...!   Time Stamps   [6:48] Unveiling Kacies's Artistic Influences [16:38] Crafting the Neon Primer [28:39] Exploring Installation Techniques [29:18] Balancing Teaching and Artistry [34:14] Artistic Inspiration [35:33] The Glow of Neon [36:03] Cultural Significance of Neon [38:17] Neon in History [46:05] Neon in Urban Spaces [48:01] Inspiring Interactions [53:04] Future Projects [1:01:58]  Neon Rituals  
Blog: www.taminglightning.net Instagram @taminglightning Support on Patreon.com/taminglightning Hello lightning Tamers this is episode number 59. And in today's podcast,, I'll be joined by Greg Wilson, the President of Alta Robbins, a leading provider of precision engineering solutions, known for their high quality valves. With a wealth of knowledge in valve engineering and a deep understanding of the needs of the neon industry, Greg is here to share his insights and expertise with us. Get ready for a deep dive into Alta Robbins valves, where we will learn Alta Robbins connection to Neon while understanding the intricacies one of the most important parts on your neon gas system. This include company history, choice of valve, troubleshooting and repair questions. Whether you're a seasoned professional or just starting out in the world of neon and plasma, this episode promises to be enlightening and informative. For our Patreon subscribers a transcript will be available for this episode! If your not yet a patreon member, you can sign up for 7-day trial with access to additional Taming Lightning content. Welcome to Podcast Greg Wilson!   Time Stamps [2:03] What is Alta Robbins and where did it begin? [9:47] What interested you to work in this company or work for your father? [13:42] Is there any sort of advantage[difference] between the 1/4npt and 1/8npt port sizes for the valves?  [15:39] Discuss  the significance / difference between Brass and Stainless-Steel valve bodies. [17:26] Considerations when using fittings on Alta Robbins [20:39] On the website, one the defining features of Alta Robbins is the following statement "The Difference is in the Seat" Could you help me and the audience understand why that is so important to the design? [26:21] How does Alta Robbins ensure the reliability and durability of its valves in both high-vacuum and high-pressure environments? What is the 4-to-1 safety factor? [29:25] One of the qualities that I adamire is that Alta Robbins Valves are simple to service. When is it recommended to replace individual parts of a valve versus replacing the entire unit to maintain optimal performance? [34:51] Troubleshooting or explaination for the feeling like having to make more turns on the valve before seeing the metering of gas. [37:58] Greg elaborates on a built in safety feature that better explains why it takes more that one turn before opening the valve. [41:41] There's an arrow on the outside of the valve, and the question that you have been asked before was like, does it matter the direction of that valve in its use? [45:40] Soft Goods Kit vs Bonnet Assembly, when do you replace parts and when to buy a new valve? [49:50] What is Alta Robbins thoughts on partnering with Taming Lightning? [52:13] A fun fact from Greg Wilson and his thoughts on and service to neon.    
Blog: www.taminglightning.net Instagram @taminglightning Adam smo: www.smoglass.com ig: @smoglasstx Support on Patreon.com/taminglightning   Hello Lightning Tamers this is episode number 58. And in today's podcast, I'll be joined by Adam Smo Adam Smolesnky aka Adam Smo is a San Antonio-based glassblower known for working at the torch in borosilicate glass, he creates intricately detailed and colorfully crafted marbles, pendants, drinking glasses, pipes, and sculptures, and as of the recent few years has been diligently sharpening and pushing his skills in neon. Welcome back to the Podcast Adam! For our listeners, I met Adam back in 2019 on the 4th of July weekend for Glas Inaugural Plasma Parley featured on this podcast in ep 17, where Nate Shaeffer and Bruce Suba hosted a plasma get together to learn and talk about plasma. Adam was the first co-learner I had interviewed from the parley, amongst many who had the skills to not only manipulate the glass to make amazing vessels for plasma and fabricate their own manifold but most importantly the mindset to put aside previous knowledge and be completely open learning.    Musci Credits: Preview - Retro by ONE  The opening theme -Taming Lightning by Trav B. Ryan    Sponsor - Good2Go - ONE Credits - Walking by Ras-Hop  
Blog: www.taminglightning.net Instagram @taminglightning Mark Ditzler: www.markditzler.com Support on Patreon.com/taminglightning In today's podcast, recorded July 2023, I'll be joined by Mark Ditzler. Who has been hospital in my visit to the seattle area, after the class I taught at Pilchuck this summer with Harriet Schwarzrock. Mark Ditzler is a trained industrial designer, ceramic artist, and self-taught fused glass expert based in Seattle. With over 30 years of experience, he crafts kilnformed glass for commissions and galleries, blending clay techniques seamlessly into his work. Mark has taught fusing classes both locally and nationwide, with a notable tenure at Corning Museum of Glass. His expertise spans neon tube bending in the 1980s, pioneering fused plasma projects with James Nowark Studio in the 1990s, and a collaborative residency at Corning focused on plasma with Wayne Strattman (2017). His work has graced prestigious venues like Bellevue Art Museum (2018) and Hong Kong Science Museum (2019). Currently, Mark is innovating in plasma, creating a bespoke "hood ornament" for a Corvette in L.A. and pioneering flat "neon" using cutting-edge kiln-forming techniques and glass cutting technology.  Music Credits:  Preview - Retro by ONE  The opening theme -Taming Lightning by Trav B. Ryan    Sponsor - Good2Go by ONE  Credits - Walking by Ras-Hop
Episode Sponsored by FMS Sign Prodcuts , use promo code "LIGHTNING" for 10% off your first order. Blog: www.taminglightning.net Instagram @taminglightning Support on Patreon.com/taminglightning   In today's podcast, recorded August 13th, 2023, I'll be joined by Suzanne Hargrove former Head of Conservation at the Toledo Museum of Art in a Conversation on Conservation.   We met in February 2022 during my GAPP (Glass Artist Pavilion Project) Residency, and she had graciously set up the Paul Seide Radio Light from the Museum's collection. I have a wide interest in glass and gas-illuminated artwork, so I wanted to discuss Paule Seide's Radio Lights  in this podcast as well. But I believe it's equally as important to address a variety of questions to give us an overview of art conservation and its relation to the artwork and the artist. Music Credits:  Preview - Retro by ONE  The opening theme -Taming Lightning by Trav B. Ryan    Sponsor - Good2Go by ONE  Credits - Walking by Ras-Hop
Episode Sponsored by Alta-Robbins   Blog: www.taminglightning.net Instagram @taminglightning Support on Ko-fi.com/taminglightning and Patreon.com/taminglightning In today's podcast, recorded June 1st, 2023, I'll be joined by Angela McHale aka Angie aka Rose featuring Patrick Gadzinski. We just finishing up the week teaching at the Pittsburgh Glass Center in a class called Under Vacuum a Flameworking and plasma Intensive. We'll get some insights into being an instructor or educator in the field of glass and plasma, nerd out about scientific glass, and discuss the challenges and learning opportunities found in workshops for professional practice. Music Credits:  Preview - Retro by ONE  The opening theme -Taming Lightning by Trav B. Ryan    Sponsor - Good2Go by ONE  Credits - Walking by Ras-Hop
Episode Sponsored by Alta-Robbins   Blog: www.taminglightning.net Instagram @taminglightning Support on Ko-fi.com/taminglightning and Patreon.com/taminglightning   This is episode number 54. And in today's podcast, recorded May 18th, 2023, I'll be joined by Kate Herron on the second to last day teaching a workshop at the Toledo Museum of Art's Glass Pavilion! We'll talk with Kate and her experience making art through covid, what brought her to glass, Alfred University program and her introduction to Neon, teaching plasma at Toledo, and what's next after getting her Masters in Fine Arts! Music Credits:  Preview - Retro by ONE  The opening theme -Taming Lightning by Trav B. Ryan    Sponsor - Good2Go by ONE  Patreon Promo  - Next Time by Hayku Credits - Walking by Ras-Hop
Blog: www.taminglightning.net Instagram @taminglightning Support on Ko-fi.com/taminglightning and Patreon.com/taminglightning   Hello Lightning Tamers! This is episode number 53. In today's podcast, recorded April 8th, 2023, I'll be joined by Ethan Samaha AGAIN and this time featuring Zach Layhew, where we talk about Ethan's most recent residency at the Pittsburgh Glass Center. Here we talk about the application process for residency, Pulling Tubing for Neon: its challenges, Navigation color palettes, and the importance of residency when trying new ideas.   Welcome Back to the Podcast Ethan and Zach! Music Credits:  Preview - Retro by ONE  The opening theme -Taming Lightning by Trav B. Ryan    Patreon Promo  - Next Time by Hayku Credits - Walking by Ras-Hop  
Blog: www.taminglightning.net Instagram @taminglightning Support on Ko-fi.com/taminglightning and Patreon.com/taminglightning Hello Lightning Tamers this is episode number 52. And in today's podcast, recorded Dec 2nd, 2021, I'll be joined by Light and Space Artist, Ethan Samaha. Ethan Samaha holds a BFA in Art + Design,a  focus in Sculpture and Dimensional Studies, with minors in Performance Design and Technology and Dance, from the New York State College of Ceramics at Alfred University. Ethan is visiting here in Pittsburgh for the week, and had reached out me to meet up and talk about neon and plasma. I was working in studio , and suggested we'd meet at the Pittsburgh Glass Center. After giving a tour of PGC, and about 2 hours of nerding out about plasma illumination, we decided to record a podcast.  In the next episode, we have the pleasure of hearing from Ethan himself as he delves into his fascinating color choices and palette for pulling tubing using the furnace blown glass and color. Get ready for an insightful discussion you won't want to miss! Music Credits:  Preview - Retro by ONE  The opening theme -Taming Lightning by Trav B. Ryan    Patreon Promo  - Next Time by Hayku Credits - Walking by Ras-Hop
Blog: www.taminglightning.net Instagram @taminglightning Support on Ko-fi.com/taminglightning and Patreon.com/taminglightning Hello Lightning Tamers! This is episode number 51. And in today's podcast,  I'll be joined by Wayne Strattman, an innovator in lighted glass plasma technology, as an artist, designer, researcher, teacher, advocate, and author. Having recently published a new book called 'The Art of Plasma: Creating lighted sculpture with gas, glass and electricity, Strattman reveals the history, theory, and practice of plasma art, and from that history, we'll be talking about plasma lighting before the discovery of inert gases talking about one of the under-recognized pioneers of gas discharge lighting known as Daniel McFarland Moore for his Moore Tubes I hope you enjoyed the podcast.  Thank you Wayne for another podcast. And you my listener, please check out his book 'The Art of Plasma', it has a very well organized history of our field from the technology and innovators that make what we do possible and all in bite sized readings that you can use to dig deeper. If your interested in hearing some of those histories let me know, I'd love to share them with you! Music Credits:  Preview - Retro by ONE  Patreon Promo  - Next Time by Hayku The opening theme -Taming Lightning by Trav B. Ryan    Credits - Walking by Ras-Hop
Support on Ko-fi.com/taminglightning and Patreon.com/taminglightning Hello Lightning Tamers! This is episode number 50. And in today's podcast, recorded July 16, 2021 on the closing night for the Exhibition LIT: Light in Transmission, I'll be joined by Vicky A Clark to talk about her background as an independent curator, writer, and critic, as well as insights on the exhibition.  Thank you Vicky for your time on the podcast, your review, and your advice.  I'd like to thank Pittsburgh Glass Center for supporting me as a place of research and inspiration, in addition to their support via the Advance Black Arts in Pittsburgh Grant that funded the exhibition LIT: Light in Transmission. Plasma Art Alliance and the Facebook group Neon and Plasma Art for Beginner, where I have access to the well of knowledge and connects me to some amazing and supportive people.  Music Credits:  Preview - Retro by ONE  Patreon Promo  - Next Time by Hayku The opening theme -Taming Lightning by Trav B. Ryan    Credits - Walking by Ras-Hop Blog: www.taminglightning.net Instagram @taminglightning
This is episode 49 and in today's podcast I'll be reading a review on an exhibition I curated called  LIT: Light in Transmission which was shown in Hodge Gallery at the Pittsburgh Glass Center last year in 2021 from February 5 and extended until July 28. This is the second exhibition I've curated the first being in 2017 an ISU Alumni exhibition from Glass Progam, and so I find this to be valuable to have documented thoughts and interpretations of what I've helped create. This goes double for the podcast and any of the video guides, and content, I produce. Your feedback is valuable. The following review is by Pittsburgh-based independent curator and critic Vicky A. Clark who is an art historian and author specializing in contemporary art and was written for Issue 163 of the Glass Quarterly Magazine, as a heads up, in the next episode I have a conversation with Vicky learn about her background and share insights about the exhibition. Preview - Retro by ONE  Patreon Promo  - Next Time by Hayku The opening theme -Taming Lightning by Trav B. Ryan    Sponsor - Good2Go - ONE Credits - Walking by Ras-Hop
Hello Lightning Tamers! This is episode number 48 and in this podcast returning to Taming Lightning, I'll talk about what I learned during my hiatus both in plasma and career, update on the podcast scheduled through the end of 2022, and talk about What I'm doing now! Support on Ko-fi.com/taminglightning and Patreon.com/taminglightning Music credits to the following artists in order of appearance: The Art of dying quote from Bruce Lee from Longstreet  The opening theme -Taming Lightning by Trav B. Ryan    Credits - Walking by Ras-Hop Blog: www.taminglightning.net Instagram @taminglightning
Music credits to the following artists in order of appearance: Preview - Sung Jin Woo Rap | "Arise" by Daddyphatsnaps  The opening theme -Taming Lightning by Trav B. Ryan    Credits - Walking by Ras-Hop Hello Lightning Tamers! This is not an episode. So in today's podcast, I'm going to give a little announcement about Taming Lightning going on a hiatus.  YES, you heard that right a hiatus.I've officially planned for the hiatus to start July and to end in October, 2022.  The reason for this hiatus is well, I need to take time to stop adapt to my most recent life events and changes: New Job, Moving to a new place, and Teaching and Assisting - Summer workshops! Before I go, I need to ask a favor. If you could, I'd like you to got to taminglightning.net, and leave a comment about what you'ld like to hear about on the podcast, it could be something from a previous guest or something new. I'd love to hear it, so I can help share it. If you like to support Taming Lightning, subscribe to the newsletter on www.taminglightning.net, or follow on instagram @taminglightning, other options for support are one-time donations through Ko-Fi, or you join me on Patreon for additional perks and benefits. I'll have links provided in the show notes. Feel free to share, comment, and subscribe. As always Be Safe, Be Healthy, and Be Strong, and I'll See you next time.  -Percy Echols II, Taming Lightning
Episode Sponsored by Glass Art Society and Fluxeon Shownotes on www.taminglightning.net Hello Lightning Tamers! This is episode 47, and I'm here with Thomas Zickuhr of Neon Lab and Neon instructor at the University of Wisconsin Madison.   Thomas Zickuhr is a neon glass/mixed media artist based out of Madison Wisconsin and has been a neon glassblower for nearly 20 years, though has been an active artist his entire life.  After finishing his degree in Fine Art/Sculpture from the University of Wisconsin Oshkosh, Tom moved to Boulder Colorado and took on an intensive 4 year apprenticeship in neon. After the foundation for neon had been laid, he, his wife Kristine, and their dogs moved to Madison, WI where Tom continued to learn and grow in the craft of neon.  Thomas also studied and practiced design and animation, and continues to work and create in all three fields.   Music credits  Preview - Retro by ONE  The opening theme -Taming Lightning by Trav B. Ryan    Sponsor - Good2Go by ONE Credits - Walking by Ras-Hop As mentioned at the start of this episode, Tom Zickuhr has been a recommendation for quite awhile. And like many of our guests there's a interesting story with each and every person. Sometimes what your passionate about is is given as gift or opportunity, other times you bear all the effort, atleast from a limited perspective its seems to be one or the other, but here we have an example showing both, luck, effort, and determination!   
Episode Sponsored by Glass Art Society and Fluxeon Shownotes on www.taminglightning.net Hello lightning Tamers this is episode number 46. And in today's podcast, I'll be joined by Ben Orozco. Ben has co-hosted on the podcast in theTaming Lighting x GEEX collaboration, a 4 part series called Intro to Plasma.Today Ben will be formally introduced as guest on Taming Lightning and we well be talking  Neon as Systems building, the use of light to depict space, and neon as a design language. Music credits  Preview - Retro by ONE  The opening theme -Taming Lightning by Trav B. Ryan    Sponsor - Good2Go by ONE Credits - Walking by Ras-Hop I found the subject of Systems Building to be as an important tool for artists and neon bender to be just as applicable beyond the focus of the this podcast. I do find it valuable to check out  the episode on Story Points from the podcast Two Scrums up, which helps you to quantify an estimate of the effort and time required to complete a task or piece of work. So be sure to check out the show notes on Taming lightning.net for podcast, books, and resources mentioned in this episode.
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