The Masterclass Podcast

“What makes you different from your peers who also want to get a job in journalism? ABC audio producer and digital reporter Wing Kuang is an expert at turning a disadvantage into an asset. Having first come to Australia as an international student, she encountered a lot of barriers to finding a job as a journalist. She says that community radio provided important opportunities to develop her skills and build a portfolio, and that it was ultimately her social media presence that led to her first job. “Tweeting had become my only way to make myself known.” WORK MENTIONED https://allthebestradio.com/featured/500-retrospective-vanishing-voices/ https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/days-like-these/wing-vs-the-machine/101916326See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

“The minute I walk into that space, I turn my audio ears on.” ABC broadcaster Kirsti Melville is an award-winning radio documentary maker, who always starts planning for an audio feature by thinking about sound. Melville describes how she triages the audio in any recording environment, and how she works with sound to create immersive and impactful storytelling. "I often talk about it in quite filmic terms. Think about it in terms of small close-up sound and broader, wider sound that creates a scene." WORK MENTIONED https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/earshot/earshot/102676508 https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/earshot/the-ghosts-of-wittenoom---part-one/10635386 https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/earshot/the-ghosts-of-wittenoom-part-2/10747390See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

“Your voice is such a personal quality…It’s like your own aural fingerprint.” As an ABC voice coach and journalist, Tamara Oudyn is shaping the diverse voices of the national broadcaster. Here she describes the lessons she teaches cadets, including the role of the 3ps - pitch, pace and pausing - in broadcasting.  Her emphasis is on training young journalists to sound like themselves on air.  “Authority comes from being comfortable in front of a microphone and knowing what you are on about.” WORK MENTIONED https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/lifematters/crime-pays-the-mystery-behind-why-we-love-crime-dramas/101742770See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

"The thing that I love about audio is that...it's really intimate." ABC journalist Jo Lauder says audio can be really effective in transporting the listener to a particular time and place. She explains how she goes about planning different types of audio pieces, whether for Triple J's Hack or long-form narrative podcasts like Saving the Franklin. She says it is crucial to engage the listener right from the start. "You grab them with the curiosity. You just have to really hook someone in so they want to find out what's going on." WORK MENTIONED https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/dig/series-3-saving-the-franklin/102414460 https://soundcloud.com/triple-j-hack/jo-lauder-goes-on-a-space-walk-with-earthlight https://www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/hck-2024-01-04/103234860  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

“Who measures objectivity? Who judges objectivity?” Objectivity is traditionally seen as a cardinal tenet of journalism, but Daniel Browning's long experience in Australian newsrooms has left him questioning whether objectivity is possible, or even beneficial. The Bundjalung and Kullili man, who leads the ABC's Indigenous Radio unit, says First Nations communities have been failed by the Australian media. He champions the idea of subjective journalism, believing that being 'close to the subject’ can be an asset.   “The lie of objectivity is that we assume we have it.” WORK MENTIONED https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsySGx7ReWU https://magabala.com.au/products/close-to-the-subjectSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

“Always get the name of the dog, the brand of the beer, and the title of the song that was playing as the car crashed off the road.” This is one writing commandment that the award-winning writer for Good Weekend Konrad Marshall keeps top of mind, as told to him by Pulitzer Prize-winner Tom French. For Marshall, that attention to detail is one trademark that helps set his work apart. As a feature writer, he sees his main job as engaging readers in a captivating story. “I’m just trying to get your attention for thirty-five minutes on a Saturday morning by reading something that you really enjoy.” WORK MENTIONED https://www.smh.com.au/national/couch-surfer-in-his-30s-oscar-winner-in-his-40s-why-the-whole-world-wants-taika-20231101-p5egs4.html https://www.smh.com.au/interactive/2016/the-noongar-warriors/ https://www.smh.com.au/sport/tennis/rod-laver-gets-back-into-the-swing-of-life-and-love-20190115-p50re5.htmlSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

“Focus on the intimate and particular.” When it comes to feature writing, Stephanie Convery says it is often the small details that count. Her work with Guardian Australia involves shining a light on inequality, and frequently focuses on people’s personal circumstances. She likens features to creative writing in the need to draw on literary devices to ‘show’ rather than ‘tell’ the reader why a story matters. She says the key to starting any feature story is being curious. “When you go to write a feature you don’t necessarily know all the answers to the questions that you’ve asked. Part of finding the answers is writing.” WORK MENTIONED https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/mar/25/yachts-at-the-top-power-privacy-and-privilege-in-the-world-of-australian-superyachts https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/feb/13/slowly-tortured-by-his-brain-family-urges-action-on-head-trauma-at-concussion-inquiry https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/nov/21/we-need-to-be-alarmed-food-banks-in-overdrive-as-politicians-allow-australians-to-go-hungrySee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

“You can’t go in with no idea of what you might hope to get out of it, but you have to be open to what happens in the interview.” As former host of Guardian Australia’s Full Story podcast, Laura Murphy-Oates speaks to people for a living. Here she outlines her rules for interviewing, including the pre-interview research process and how to structure questions. She describes the importance of an ethical approach, particularly when interviewing marginalised communities. The interview's purpose, she says, should always be top of mind.  “Think about what the audience would want from the interview.” WORK MENTIONED https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/audio/2023/jun/26/a-deep-sea-explorer-on-the-oceangate-disaster-and-the-rise-of-submersibles-full-story-podcast https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/audio/2021/jan/21/the-indigenous-family-fighting-back-against-a-legacy-of-police-brutality https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/audio/2023/oct/09/we-dont-want-your-backyard-briggs-on-why-hes-campaigning-for-yes-full-story-podcastSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

"If you haven't grabbed the readers' attention within the first 10-12 words, you lose them." Saffron Howden's job is training journalists how to write news for Australian Community Media. She sees news journalists as storytellers dealing in facts, who need to always be thinking about their audience. In this episode, she offers tips on the craft of writing a strong news story.   "Focus on...the thing people are going to care about. And keep it simple." WORK MENTIONED: https://www.bluemountainsgazette.com.au/story/8279201/licence-to-kill-2-million-roos-emus-culled-to-protect-humans/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

"It's about fairness in the search for the truth, and fairness in publishing our stories." The Age's Nick McKenzie has put fairness at the centre of his journalistic identity. It's led him to break some of the nation's biggest stories, winning him 16 Walkleys, but also has meant he's been sued for defamation on multiple occasions. In this episode, he lays out the steps he takes to ensure his reporting is fair and ethical. "Journalism is a profession of infinite possibility - you just need to apply yourself and be determined and be ethical and be thorough and be guided by the public interest."  WORK MENTIONED: https://9now.nine.com.au/60-minutes/the-faceless-man-60-minutes/27c925bd-757d-47c9-ba88-1b2309b72936 https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/calls-for-investigation-into-factional-powerbroker-adem-somyurek-20200614-p552iy.htmlSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

"Every story that you do, you need to talk to people."  Julia Bergin's journalistic career has taken her as far afield as Japan and the Northern Territory, meaning she's had to work at building up her contact book time and time again. In this episode, she talks about all that goes into finding the right interviewees for a story. "It's broadening this remit of interviewing from just a Q&A to the groundwork that happens before. And that's not just about writing up questions. That's developing a rapport with your interview subject." Articles mentioned: https://www.crikey.com.au/2023/04/24/alice-springs-traditional-owners-launch-patrol/ https://www.crikey.com.au/2023/06/13/dingoes-research-dna https://www.crikey.com.au/2023/10/13/voice-to-parliament-aec-silenced-alice-springs-indigenous-supervisor/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

“You have to learn by doing, and you will only get better with practice.” Angus Thomson started with Sydney Morning Herald as a cadet in 2022, and is currently their health reporter. In this episode he explains how he goes about finding news stories, reflecting on his experience as a student at The University of Melbourne and as a professional journalist. He has a key piece of advice for those unsure of where to start in finding a news story. “Go local. Draw on your networks.” Articles mentioned: Two towns separated by a bridge, a border – and $28 million lost to gambling. Matthew was given a 20-year ban for this. Now he’s fighting to clear his name. From Port Phillip Bay to the Coral Sea, tracking the travels of the eels.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In 2018, Silvi Vann-Wall was a journalism student who was chosen as a finalist in a nationwide podcasting competition.  Suddenly she found herself on a stage, pitching her idea to the best podcasters in the world.   Her advice on developing your podcast concept is very simple, "You must be able to describe it in one sentence by the time you're ready to pitch.  Otherwise, keep trying!"   She went on to produce, with Izzie Austin and the Wheeler Centre, the Pill Pop podcast, which she describes as an audio road trip for the chronically ill.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

“The most helpful part of the series arc is dragging people to the next episode,” says ABC’s Matt Bevan, the host of China, If You’re Listening.  That’s the fifth season of his geopolitical pod, for which he’s done both chronological and thematic season arcs.  In this episode of the Masterclass, he shares what he’s learned about shaping narrative arcs across a season for a podcast, including how to tempt your audience to keep listening and how to reward loyal listeners.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Audience and sustainability are two key factors for Deadset Studio's Executive Producer Rachel Fountain in thinking about what podcasts will work. "When you know who the podcast is for, you can think about what they might be using it for, and tailor your content to that," she says.  Rachel has worked on many popular podcasts at ABC Audio Studios, including Days Like These and Pineapple Project, and here she shares the secrets to turning your ideas into a podcast.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

"It's never finished, but you get closer and closer to 'I'm happy with this'".  Martin Peralta is one of Australia's most sought after sound designers, having worked on ABC podcasts including Trace and Unravel, as well as Gimlet's Science Vs, and many others. In this episode, he outlines his work processes, his secrets for finding the right sound design and how to use music in podcasts.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

"A good piece of work is written once.  A great piece is written five times."  To Elizabeth Kulas, the host of ABC's Days Like These, narrative structure is front of mind in planning and writing every podcast episode.   Formerly the host of 7am, she gives a Masterclass in structuring your episode. Louisa Lim teaches Audio Journalism and Podcasting at the University of Melbourne's Centre for Advancing Journalism.  She has been a journalist for more than two decades, working as a foreign correspondent in China for a decade for the BBC and NPR.  She co-hosts a podcast on China, The Little Red Podcast, which won the Australian Podcast Award's News and Current Affairs prize in 2018.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In season 2 of The Masterclass, Louisa Lim explores podcasting with some of the world's best podcasters.  In this episode, Marc Fennell, the creator and host of the smash hit podcast Stuff the British Stole, gives a masterclass in how to tell complicated stories in a way that people can understand.  Louisa Lim teaches Audio Journalism and Podcasting at the University of Melbourne's Centre for Advancing Journalism. She has been a journalist for more than two decades, working a foreign correspondent in China for a decade for BBC and NPR.  She co-hosts a podcast on China, The Little Red Podcast, which won the Australian Podcast Award's News and Current Affairs prize in 2018.  Her book, The People’s Republic of Amnesia; Tiananmen Revisited, was shortlisted for the Orwell Prize. Find her on Twitter @limlouisaSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Louisa Lim explores the booming phenomenon of podcasts with investigative journalist Richard Baker and the ABC’s Rachael Brown. What makes this genre so compelling to audiences, and what does it tell us about ourselves and how far can you push the the story telling?Host details:Louisa Lim has been a journalist for more than two decades. She was a foreign correspondent in China for a decade for BBC and NPR. She subsequently wrote a book called The People’s Republic of Amnesia; Tiananmen Revisited, which was named anEconomist Book of the Year and shortlisted for the Orwell Prize. She co-hosts a podcast on China called The Little Red Podcast with Graeme Smith from the Australian National University. She teaches Audio and Video Journalism at the University of Melbourne.@limlouisaProduction TeamBuffy Gorrilla is an award-winning audio journalist and a recent graduate of the University of Melbourne’s Master of Journalism programme. Buffy has been a producer at the ABC forRadio National and ABC Radio Melbourne and is currently working with RN’s Blueprint for Living. She is also host and producer of an podcast for the University of Melbourne called Starting Somewhere.Ruby Schwartz is a Research Assistant to the Vice-Chancellor of the University of Melbourne. She provides research support for books, essays, op-eds and speeches, and co- produces the Vice-Chancellor’s public policy podcast, The Policy Shop. Ruby has co-hosted a weekly intersectional feminist news and current affairs show on 3CR, produces audio stories for FBI Radio’s All The Best and written articles for the Sydney Morning Herald. She was an editorial assistant at The Saturday Paper and wrote a thesis on gendered cyber harassment.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Louisa Lim moderated a lively discussion between Natasha Mitchell, host of the ABC's Science Friction and Robert Smith from Planet Money on NPR. They tackled topics such as their individual approaches to a story, how podcasts are pushing the boundaries of narrative story telling and how much of yourself should you insert into a story?Host details:Louisa Lim has been a journalist for more than two decades. She was a foreign correspondent in China for a decade for BBC and NPR. She subsequently wrote a book called The People’s Republic of Amnesia; Tiananmen Revisited, which was named an Economist Book of the Year and shortlisted for the Orwell Prize. She co-hosts a podcast on China called The Little Red Podcast with Graeme Smith from the Australian National University. She teaches Audio and Video Journalism at the University of Melbourne.@limlouisaProduction TeamBuffy Gorrilla is an award-winning audio journalist and a recent graduate of the University of Melbourne’s Master of Journalism programme. Buffy has been a producer at the ABC forRadio National and ABC Radio Melbourne and is currently working with RN’s Blueprint for Living. She is also host and producer of an podcast for the University of Melbourne called Starting Somewhere.Ruby Schwartz is a Research Assistant to the Vice-Chancellor of the University of Melbourne. She provides research support for books, essays, op-eds and speeches, and co- produces the Vice-Chancellor’s public policy podcast, The Policy Shop. Ruby has co-hosted a weekly intersectional feminist news and current affairs show on 3CR, produces audio stories for FBI Radio’s All The Best and written articles for the Sydney Morning Herald. She was an editorial assistant at The Saturday Paper and wrote a thesis on gendered cyber harassment.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.