The Modern Lawyer

Today’s episode is with Mary O’Carroll, the Chief Community Officer at Ironclad, a contract lifecycle management company. Mary comes from a consulting, business, and finance background and through her career at Orrick, Google, Ironclad, has become one of the faces of “legal operations.” It doesn’t hurt that she was a founding board member of CLOC, the corporate legal operations consortium. In this episode we talk about Mary’s start at Orrick, working with leaders like Ralph Baxter and Peter Krakauer, to Google, where she built the legal operations team from scratch. She talks about how she put in place process, procedures, and systems to ensure that Google could run a vast portfolio of cases effectively and efficiently, all while they were playing a part in inventing what we now may refer to as “internet law.” Finally we talk about Mary’s big move to Ironclad. Why did she make this move, and what is she hoping to achieve there? What is Ironclad’s vision for growth in the contract lifecycle space?

Today’s episode is with Varun Mehta, the CEO of Factor, a legal managed services company recently spun out of Axiom, the massive alternative legal services provider. Varun’s story is fascinating. He approaches the legal industry from the perspective of an engineer out to solve problems in a cross-disciplinary way, totally free from the traditional, and frequently ineffective, old ways of performing legal services for clients. Varun starts by telling the story of a formative experience earlier in his career where he was able to assemble a team of subject matter experts and data scientists and beat a Global 100 firm in a race to find highly relevant documents relating to a key financial investigation. If his team could out-compete teams of expensive attorneys at finding needles in data haystacks, how else could a cross-functional team raise the bar for legal service? Varun also talks about discovering his personal strengths, inspiration through Stoic philosophy, his idea of professional compound interest, and how he finally made it to the helm of one of the most interesting companies in the legal industry. Keep an eye on companies like Factor. As the legal industry approaches client service in new and creative ways over the next decade, Factor is likely to carve out a niche as a key player in the space, in an effort to, as Varun says, bring the human back to legal. As always, if you like our discussion, please rate us on Apple podcasts. We hope you enjoy the conversation.

Today’s episode is with Joey Seeber, the CEO of Level Legal, a Dallas-based, next generation law company that bills itself as “problem solvers” for the legal industry. From e-discovery, to investigations, to regulatory matters, Level Legal takes on many tasks that can’t be done effectively or efficiently at law firms. In this episode, Joey talks about building a company in the depths of the Great Recession, large early clients opting to use Level Legal over traditional law firms, and all of the cultural and efficiency-based decisions he and his partners made in the early days. I think you’ll find Level Legal intriguing because it represents a different, arguably better way to do certain types of legal work. Joey is an experienced attorney who realized that he could do certain legal work more “efficiently, and more cost effectively” than the incumbent players. Could business like Level Legal represent the diversified future of how legal work is completed in the United States? As always, if you like our discussion, please rate us on Apple podcasts. We hope you enjoy the conversation.

Anyone reading news about legal technology recently has seen the massive surge in big money deals across the industry. Over the last several months, the industry has seen blockbuster fundraises and M&A activity despite the pandemic. Just last month, contract management startup Ironclad raised over 100M. Around the same time, e-discovery company Disco, raised roughly the same amount. Weeks ago, Reveal Data raised 200M, spurring the acquisition of leading AI-backed data analytics platform Brainspace. In today’s episode, we’re joined by Wendell Jisa, the CEO of Reveal Data. I ask him about his entrepreneurial journey, exactly how a 200M megadeal actually happens, and why legal technology is finally attracting these massive investments. Wendell’s story and vision in this space is remarkable. His transparency and honesty in explaining his view of the industry, how he’s grown his business, and how this massive deal came to life are impressive. As always, if you like our discussion, please rate us on Apple podcasts. We hope you enjoy the conversation.

Happy New Year, Modern Lawyer Podcast listeners. Today’s episode addresses one of the fastest moving, most fascinating areas in the law today: blockchain and cryptocurrency. We’re joined by Joon Kim, a former Kirkland & Ellis attorney and AGC at Goldman Sachs, who is now the general counsel at blockchain startup o1 Labs, based out of San Francisco. This episode explores three key things: one: a basic primer on what attorneys need to know now regarding cryptocurrency, two: what technological developments in smart contracts and transactions could replace rote, low level, and inefficient legal work, and three, a survey of major recent breakthroughs in the cryptocurrency world, including DeFi or decentralized finance, and CBDCs or Central Bank Digital Currencies. This is some mind-blowing stuff, and some amazing technology, which may be less than a decade away from rapidly re-structuring how the legal industry operates. As always, if you like our discussion, please rate us on Apple podcasts. We hope you enjoy the conversation.

Today’s episode is the third and final episode in a three part series on how the law firm business model will change in response to economic, competitive, and cultural trends. Our guest today is Patrick DiDomenico, the Chief Innovation Officer at leading employment law firm Jackson Lewis. Patrick literally wrote the book on KM in legal, appropriately titled Knowledge Management for Lawyers. In this episode, we talk about whether law firms are at a structural disadvantage to adapt to the legal needs of the future, the consequences of large clients keeping legal work within their in-house departments instead of hiring law firms, and the deep conflict inherent in the billable hour. Patrick also talks about his idea of what could be a “complete disruptor” of the legal industry. One example, assuming a future of non-lawyer law firm ownership, could be a sprawling, national, franchised law company backed by private equity or a group of deep pocketed investors. As always, if you like our discussion, please rate us on Apple podcasts. We hope you enjoy the conversation.

Today’s episode is the second in a three part series on the law firm business model and how COVID-19, the recession, and rising competition will cause law firms to rapidly change. Our guest today is Toby Brown, the Chief Practice Management Officer of AmLaw 50 law firm Perkins Coie. As a veteran of pricing, efficiency, and value in the law firm context, Toby provides a crucial perspective on where law firms are headed. In our discussion, Toby talks about building close relationships with clients even while having very direct conversations about pricing, the role of the pricing function in biglaw, his new organization Legal Value Network, and how Perkins Coie won an increasing share of a major client’s business by demonstrating an 18% savings per transactional matter. Toby also talks about his firm’s Client Advantage program that works with clients to create operational and knowledge management efficiencies within their legal organization and to avoid what he refers to as “steaming piles of KM.

Today's episode is the first in a three part series on the law firm business model, and how COVID-19 the recession and rising competition will cause it to rapidly change. Our guest today is someone who is uniquely qualified to talk about this subject. Meredith Williams range is the Chief Knowledge and client value officer at the preeminent law firm Sherman and Sterling. Her portfolio of functions at the firm is impressive. Her role spans technology, knowledge management, pricing, in generally ensuring that each representation the firm takes on is a win win for the client, and for the firm. In this episode, we talk about how Meredith got her start on the business side of law firms.

Today’s episode is with Eva Shang, CEO of Legalist, a tech-enabled litigation finance firm with 150 million dollars of assets under management. Legalist uses tech and sophisticated analytics to source and underwrite legal investments, mainly for small and medium size claims. In this episode, Eva talks about her entrepreneurial background as a Harvard dropout, first-time founder, and now a leader in a fascinating niche in the legal industry. We discuss the nuts and bolts of how litigation funding works, its sticky ethical questions, and its implications. Additionally, and in one of my favorite tangents so far on the podcasts, Eva I discuss how today’s lawyers in many ways resemble the grain millers of hundreds of years ago. To quote Eva: “In our current society, power has moved from those who process material goods, to those who process the contracts that govern them.” If you like our discussion, rate us on Apple podcasts. Thanks for listening.

Today’s episode is with Ajay Agrawal, the co-founder of UnitedLex, one of the earliest global alternative legal services providers. He’s now the CEO of SirionLabs, a high tech contract management tool aimed at large companies. This episode is long. It’s long because when I tried to find less valuable content to cut, I completely failed. This is because Ajay is a fascinating, articulate business leader with unique perspectives on the legal industry. He got his start practicing law at Simpson Thacher in New York and later was a part of Jones Day’s expansion into India in the 90s and early 2000s. There, in India, he got a ringside view of a major global trend: outsourcing; in this case, outsourcing medium to high-sophistication legal work to indian attorneys. In this episode, Ajay does a great job of explaining complex business pain points and solutions. Additionally, his re-telling of specific moments in his entrepreneurial journey showcases critical moments where his ability to listen to clients, ask the right questions, and hustle, gave rise to high impact opportunities for Ajay and his company. If you like what you hear, rate us on Apple podcasts! Enjoy the episode.

In this episode, we chat with Bob Taylor, the Vice President and Senior Corporate Counsel of Legal Ideation & Transformation at Liberty Mutual Insurance. As a trailblazer in the field of corporate legal operations, Bob thinks in terms of systems, organizational efficiency, and core success metrics, which could be the saving grace of the legal industry entering as we enter a recession and uncertainty associated with the global pandemic.

Today we chat with Nikki Shaver, the managing director of Innovation and Knowledge at global law firm Paul Hastings and the founder of the global Legal Innovation Design group. Nikki shares about her journey from Europe to Australia to Canada and finally to the US, ultimately moving into the world of legal innovation and knowledge management and leading a KM team at Paul Hastings. Anand and Nikki discuss the principles of legal design, and why it's important to really understand the contours of a problem before jumping into a solution. Especially in a high stress, high tension environment, I think Nikki’s words on empathy, understanding and curiosity in a professional setting will resonate with you

Today we talk with Michael Rhodes, the Global Chair of Cooley’s internet and data privacy practice group. At Cooley, he has famously represented companies from Google, Facebook, and Zoom recently to mp3.com and eBay decades ago. In those suits, he grappled with some of the most cutting edge data privacy issues, from biometrics, to automated email scanning, to privacy in augmented reality. As an early startup attorney representing Silicon Valley’s most recognizable companies in their most high profile litigation, Michael has seen internet-based businesses develop from a niche group of startups to a powerhouse global industry.

Today we share our conversation with Judge Charles Clevert, a retired federal district court and bankruptcy court judge. Appointed at just 30 years of age, Judge Clevert was Wisconsin’s first African American federal judge. He now serves as a neutral with JAMS, an alternative dispute resolution provider.

In this episode recorded over 60 days into the pandemic shelter-in-place, we speak with Zach Abramowitz, who approaches the legal industry from his perspective as a journalist, lawyer, investor, entrepreneur, and all-around connector in the field. Zach and Anand talk about the concerns, ideas, and predictions we are hearing from all sides of legal including whether law firms can still justify spending millions on expensive skyscraper real estate while increasing numbers of attorneys will work from home, how technology adoption looks in periods of uncertainty and fear, and overlaps between data science in military and defense tech and legaltech.

Today we share a conversation with Erwin Chemerinsky, a preeminent constitutional law scholar, Supreme Court litigator, and Dean of Berkeley Law. In this episode, we talk to Erwin about several topics, including Berkeley Law’s response to the pandemic, his vision for innovative legal education, advice to new students and graduating 3Ls, and how he picks which cases he takes on pro bono, many of which he argues at the Supreme Court or Circuit Court level. Finally, he talks about new constitutional law issues arising out of the pandemic, and what key decisions we should watch for in this Supreme Court term.

Today’s conversation is with Robert (Bob) Owen, a tech-savvy veteran litigator and partner at top law firm Eversheds Sutherland. In this episode, Bob talks about the ambitious mandate his firm’s global co-chair of litigation provided him, namely to achieve “Legaltech supremacy” at Eversheds in two years. Bob shares details on how he’s meeting this goal, what pain points he’s solving at the firm, and how he views this as a golden age in legal tech.

Today we share a conversation with Amy Wegener, the Chief Practice Innovation Officer at AmLaw 25 law firm Paul Hastings and Joe Dunn, a former California State Senator, former CEO of the California State Bar, and a highly successful trial lawyer. Recently, Anand had the honor of presenting at a class they teach jointly at UC Irvine School of Law entitled 'Pushing the AI Frontier'. In this episode, Amy and Joe talk about how the AI class came about and what practical knowledge they impart to their students, cutting edge projects that both of them are working on, and what they view as the future of the legal industry. A note: We recorded this episode with Amy and Joe remotely, while sheltering at home due to the COVID 19 pandemic. We know many of you will listen to this cooped up at home juggling childcare, work, and probably many other things. On behalf of the Casetext team, we wish you the best and we’re honored to be able to provide you some interesting perspectives in some trying times.

Today's conversation is with Monet Fauntleroy, Director of Legal Service Delivery at Cooley. Monet has been on several sides of the legal technology ecosystems, starting out as a prosecutor, moving to a legal solutions provider, and finally to a large firm. At Cooley, Monet and her team of innovators evaluate new technologies and solve technology problems for the thousands of attorneys at the firm. In this episode, Monet talks about the challenges of evangelizing from within a large law firm, what we have to learn from junior attorney fresh out of school, and how her firm has rapidly adapted to working remotely, in light of the COVID-19 pandemic.

Today our conversation is with Shannon Salter, the chair of the Civil Resolution Tribunal. The CRT is a fascinating example of an online court that seeks to provide access to Canada's legal system in new, efficient ways. Through their online platform, injured parties can file and serve a complaint in a number of different causes of action, all from their smartphone. In this episode Shannon explains how she was selected to lead the CRT, the challenges she's faced along the way, and what the future of human-centered, virtual courts may be.