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The Keys and Anklets Podcast
The Keys and Anklets Podcast
Author: Michael C.
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On the K&A podcast we explore all aspects of the cuckolding and hotwife lifestyles with the primary goal of creating a sense of realism while separating fact from fiction within these often widely misunderstood lifestyles.
189 Episodes
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In this powerful panel, Michael C. and guests unpack race play from multiple perspectives.Topics include:• Defining race play beyond stereotypes• Historical and psychological context• Fetishization vs empowerment• White female agency• Black male power narratives• Cultural backlash and adult consentTimestamps:00:00 – Introduction & Disclaimer05:00 – What is Race Play?15:00 – Personal Origin Stories22:00 – Generational Power & “Force Ghosts”33:00 – Property Narratives & Femme Couvert47:00 – Cultural Backlash & Porn Industry1:03:00 – Fetishization Debate1:18:00 – Consent & Emotional MaturityFeatured Quotes:“If you’re bringing race into it at all, you’re already playing with it.”“It’s a toy in the toy box.”“Consent changes everything.”
n Episode 169, Michael C. delivers a reflective Fireside Chat focused on the journey women take toward sexual empowerment in the wife-centric lifestyle.Timestamps:00:00 – Fireside Chat introduction00:02:00 – Immediate respect for women in the lifestyle00:03:30 – Cultural conditioning & sexual double standards00:04:30 – Husband frustration example00:06:00 – Trauma and early sexual experiences00:07:30 – Wrestling with guilt00:08:30 – “I’m Every Woman” empowerment message00:09:30 – A call for male awareness00:10:53 – Closing thoughtsFeatured Quotes:“Whenever I see a woman in this lifestyle, there’s immediate respect.”“As men, we’ve never had to apologize for enjoying sex.”“You don’t have to pick one over the other.”Subscribe | Join Patreon | Visit KeysAndAnklets.com | Attend Events | Book CoachingEpisode Type: FullEpisode Number: 169Season Number: Not UsedExplicit Content: YesDuration: 00:10:53
A late-night roundtable recorded at Splash Houston ‘24. The Bulls unpack sexual confidence, attention, ego, rhythm, stamina, and what separates selfish sex from intentional pleasure.Timestamps:00:00 – Splash Houston introduction05:00 – The “suppository” turning point10:00 – What is “dick game”?20:00 – Trauma, stamina & relearning control30:00 – Paying attention to her reactions40:00 – Hosting parties & observing patterns50:00 – Mustang vs Corvette analogy60:00 – Women weigh in70:00 – Brotherhood & closing reflectionsFeatured Quotes:“Most men only get a fraction of what she has to offer.”“You can tell within five minutes.”“If you engage with a partner, you have a job to do.”Soft CTA:Subscribe | Join Patreon | Visit KeysAndAnklets.com | Attend Upcoming Events | Coaching AvailableEpisode Type: FullEpisode Number: 168Season Number: Not UsedExplicit Content: YesDuration: 01:21:12
In this episode, Michael C. breaks down one of the most common questions he receives from listeners:How do you introduce the lifestyle to your wife?Many husbands spend months—or even years—thinking about the idea before finally bringing it up. But for their partner, the conversation may come completely out of the blue. That disconnect can easily lead to confusion, resistance, or rejection.This episode explains how to approach the conversation in a way that prioritizes trust, communication, and emotional safety.Michael discusses why couples should spend significant time strengthening communication before even mentioning the lifestyle. Understanding your partner’s sexual attitudes, past experiences, and emotional boundaries is critical before opening this door.Blonde on the Bay also shares her personal story about entering the lifestyle with her husband and how trust and patience played a major role in their journey.If you're considering this lifestyle—or curious about how couples navigate these conversations—this episode offers a thoughtful and realistic roadmap.Timestamps00:00 – Episode introduction05:00 – Preparing your relationship before mentioning the lifestyle10:00 – How trust affects lifestyle conversations15:00 – Learning your partner’s sexual mindset20:00 – The three concerns women often have when hearing about the lifestyle25:00 – Why communication is the foundation of success35:00 – The importance of patience before introducing the idea40:00 – Differences between stag and cuckold dynamics50:00 – Communication mistakes couples make early on1:02:00 – Why the first experience matters1:15:00 – Accepting that the lifestyle may not be right for every coupleFeatured Quotes“You shouldn’t say anything yet. What you need to do first is prepare your relationship.”“You have to get comfortable being uncomfortable if you want to enter this lifestyle.”“If you can’t accept that she might say no, then don’t even bring it up.”Soft CTASubscribe to the podcast for more honest conversations about the lifestyle.Support the show on Patreon and join the Keys and Anklets community.Website: keysandanklets.comEpisode Type: FullEpisode Number: 167Season Number: Not UsedExplicit Content: YesDuration: 01:27:24
In this episode Michael C welcomes Brian Morgan to discuss the mindset behind the “Sigma male” approach to the lifestyle.Together they explore how the hotwife dynamic works from the Bull’s perspective and why trust, respect, and emotional intelligence are essential.Timestamps00:00 Introduction02:30 The Sigma Male Archetype05:00 How Brian Entered the Lifestyle09:00 Early Experiences With Couples14:00 Identity and Long-Term Lifestyle Commitment18:00 Dominance in Cuckold Dynamics30:00 Brotherhood Among Bulls40:00 Mentoring Couples at Events50:00 Common Mistakes New Bulls Make58:00 Rapid Fire Questions1:05:00 Brian’s First Lifestyle Encounter1:10:00 Advice for New BullsFeatured Quotes“If the alpha male is the lion, the sigma male is the tiger.”“Respect the husband first. Everything else comes after that.”“This lifestyle isn’t just something we do — it’s a mindset.”Soft CTASubscribe for more episodesSupport the show on PatreonExplore KeysAndAnklets.comJoin upcoming lifestyle eventsEpisode Type: FullEpisode Number: 166Season Number: Not UsedExplicit Content: YesDuration: 01:15:24
In Episode 165, Michael C and Socrates break down a critical topic in the hotwife and cuckold lifestyle: why husbands must build communication and trust before introducing the lifestyle to their partner.Using a real-world example where a husband secretly arranged a meeting with a bull, the episode explores what happens when fantasy expectations collide with real relationship dynamics.Michael explains why communication, patience, and emotional awareness are essential for couples exploring wife-centric dynamics. The conversation also explores the psychological barriers many women face around sexuality and how husbands can create a safe space for open discussion.The episode also examines how bulls should respond when couples are not fully aligned and the strategic difference between playing the short game and the long game in lifestyle interactions.TIMESTAMPS00:00 — Introduction and episode setup02:30 — The story that sparked the discussion05:30 — Fantasy vs reality in the lifestyle09:45 — Why the husband must introduce the lifestyle12:45 — Cultural expectations around female sexuality16:00 — Listening to objections instead of fixing them20:30 — The three fears many wives have26:30 — Why the first bull matters31:00 — The “dream hack” conversation strategy40:00 — Building trust through vulnerability46:00 — Michael’s one-year communication strategy01:05:00 — Short game vs long game in lifestyle dynamicsFEATURED QUOTES“Women are expected to be sexy but not sexual.”“You don't get shortcuts in this lifestyle. The foundation has to come first.”“If you want this lifestyle, spend a year learning about your wife's sexuality before bringing it up.”CONNECT WITH KEYS & ANKLETSSubscribe for new episodesJoin the Patreon community for exclusive contentVisit KeysAndAnklets.comExplore upcoming events and coaching opportunitiesEpisode Type: FullEpisode Number: 165Season Number: Not UsedExplicit Content: YesDuration: 01:23:42
In Episode 164, Michael C. sits down with Mr. and Mrs. Baha, a couple who have been together for 44 years and married nearly 38. Their story is a powerful reminder that relationships can continue evolving even after decades together.The conversation begins with how Mr. B’s decision to prioritize his wife’s pleasure rekindled their intimacy and led them down a path of curiosity. That curiosity eventually introduced them to swinger communities, lifestyle parties, and ultimately a deeper exploration of hotwife and cuckold dynamics.Throughout the episode, they reflect on their first experiences attending lifestyle events, Mrs. B’s first encounter with another man, and how their relationship dynamic gradually shifted toward a wife-centric structure.They also discuss the emotional complexities of cuckolding, the importance of communication, and how couples can navigate power dynamics while maintaining a strong partnership.Timestamps00:00 — Introduction and couple background00:05 — Marriage reset and focusing on wife’s pleasure00:08 — Discovering the lifestyle online00:17 — First lifestyle party experience00:22 — First: encounter with another partner00:30 — Shifting toward a wife-centric dynamic00:35 — Discovering cuckold dynamics00:40 — First Splash event experience00:45 — Navigating emotional struggles01:05 — Advice for couples entering the lifestyleFeatured Quotes“If I’m not at 100 percent for her, how can I expect her to be?”“It felt like watching my favorite porn star… and realizing it was my wife.”“The biggest piece is self-awareness.”Soft CTASubscribe for more episodes exploring the lifestyle.Support the show on Patreon | Visit KeysAndAnklets.com | Explore upcoming events.Episode Type: FullEpisode Number: 164Season Number: Not UsedExplicit Content: YesDuration: 01:19:25
Michael C welcomes Socrates for an in-person conversation about lifestyle experience, personal growth, and the future of the podcast.Topics include:• Discovering ethical non-monogamy• The transition from swinging to hotwife dynamics• Becoming a bull after divorce• Lifestyle etiquette for men• Confidence and personal growth• The role of research and education in lifestyle successTimestamps00:00 Introduction01:18 Socrates enters the lifestyle08:30 Discovering hotwife dynamics15:40 Lifestyle clubs and early experiences22:00 Becoming a bull after divorce36:00 Meeting his fiancée45:30 First lifestyle experience together50:00 Being both a stag and a bull58:00 Confidence and identity01:10:00 Producer announcementFeatured Quotes“Being a stag first taught me exactly how a bull should treat a couple.”“Confidence is like a suit—you learn when to put it on.”“This lifestyle gave me everything I hold dear in my life.”Soft CTASubscribe to the podcastSupport the show on PatreonVisit keysandanklets.comFollow Keys & Anklets on social mediaEpisode Type: FullEpisode Number: 163Season Number: Not UsedExplicit Content: YesDuration: 01:16:47
This episode explores the psychology of dominance within lifestyle dynamics and challenges common misconceptions about power, control, and masculinity.Timestamps00:00 Introduction00:02 Defining real dominance00:05 Control vs responsibility00:08 Dominance and insecurity00:12 Guiding women through lifestyle spaces00:18 Respecting couples and trust00:22 Navigating complex dynamics00:30 When dominance becomes insecurity00:36 Body language and masculine presence00:44 Raising the bar philosophy00:52 Alpha vs Sigma masculinity00:55 Closing thoughtsFeatured Quotes“Control is an illusion. She gives it to you—and she can take it back.”“She should be better after you than she was before you.”“I don’t need to be the best. I just want to raise the bar.”Subscribe & ConnectSubscribe to the podcast for new episodes each week.Support the show on Patreon for exclusive content and behind-the-scenes discussions.Visit the Keys & Anklets website for events, coaching, and more.Episode Type: FullEpisode Number: 162Season Number: Not UsedExplicit Content: YesDuration: 00:58:12
Episode DescriptionMichael C sits down with Mr. Mocha for a China Shop conversation exploring the journey, psychology, and philosophy behind being a bull in the lifestyle.Timestamps00:00 Introduction00:03 The China Shop concept00:05 Mocha’s introduction to the lifestyle00:08 Early sexual experiences00:10 Compersion and jealousy conditioning00:15 Masculinity and upbringing00:25 First cuckold experience00:40 Dominance and leadership01:00 Bull philosophy01:45 Final advice for bullsFeatured Quotes“Pleasure should never come from a selfish place.”“Dominance isn’t choking and spanking. Dominance is leadership.”Soft CTASubscribe for weekly episodesSupport the show on PatreonVisit KeysAndAnklets.com for events and updatesEpisode Type: FullEpisode Number: 161Season Number: Not UsedExplicit Content: YesDuration: 02:26:26
Extended Episode DescriptionMichael C. welcomes Wayne and Tina of Splash Mocha for a rare behind-the-scenes look at one of the largest lifestyle events in the country. The conversation explores how the event started, how it expanded to multiple cities, and why the community around it has become so strong.Wayne explains the massive logistical effort required to produce these events—from transporting equipment across the country to coordinating venues capable of hosting hundreds of guests. Tina discusses the guest experience, the vetting process, and the importance of maintaining a safe and respectful environment.The episode also dives into deeper cultural questions about lifestyle spaces. Why do some events succeed while others struggle? How do large gatherings still create meaningful connections? And why do so many couples describe Splash Mocha as more than just a party?Listeners will also hear how lifestyle events can empower women, strengthen communication between partners, and create friendships that last far beyond a single weekend.Timestamps00:00 – Introduction and episode overview00:02 – How Splash Mocha originally started00:05 – The vetting process and event culture00:08 – Why community and friendships form at the event00:15 – The unique personality of different Splash locations00:20 – Logistics of producing a large lifestyle event00:24 – Privacy rules and content creation policies00:30 – Handling guest behavior and maintaining safety00:37 – Women’s empowerment and lifestyle confidence00:50 – Future growth and expansion of Splash Mocha01:05 – Booking information and event logisticsFeatured Quotes“Splash brings people together where normally their paths would never have crossed.”“This isn’t just a party anymore—it’s a community.”“A lot of women come here and rediscover confidence they were taught to suppress.”Soft CTA BlockSubscribe to the Keys & Anklets Podcast for more conversations about the wife-centric lifestyle.Support the show on Patreon and explore upcoming events at KeysAndAnklets.com.Episode Type: FullEpisode Number: 160Season Number: Not UsedExplicit Content: YesDuration: 01:18:49
In this special episode of the Keys and Anklets Podcast, Michael C. steps away from discussions about the wife-centric lifestyle to share something deeply personal.After receiving the difficult news that his mother has been diagnosed with lung cancer, Michael reflects on the woman who raised him and the profound influence she has had on his life. Raised primarily by a single mother, he describes her as the foundation that shaped his character, values, and confidence.Michael shares a powerful childhood story about a letter he secretly intercepted informing his mother that he needed to attend summer school. Instead of punishing him when she discovered the truth, she allowed him to decide whether to attend summer school or go on a planned family trip to Florida. He chose the trip, which ultimately meant repeating a grade.While the decision had consequences, it also became one of the most important lessons of his life—teaching him about responsibility, accountability, and living with the results of his choices.Throughout the episode, Michael also reflects on the unconditional support his mother has shown him throughout his life, including her acceptance of his unconventional relationships and encouragement when he decided to start the Keys and Anklets Podcast.This episode is Michael’s way of giving his mother her flowers while she is still here.Timestamps00:00 — Introduction and why this episode is different02:00 — Growing up primarily raised by his mother05:00 — Facing the reality of a parent’s mortality07:00 — The summer school letter story begins10:00 — Getting caught and an unexpected response13:00 — The decision that would change everything15:00 — Choosing Florida instead of summer school18:30 — Returning home and facing the consequences20:00 — How repeating a grade changed his academic life22:30 — His mother’s unconditional support25:00 — Gratitude and honoring the woman who raised himFeatured Quotes“I’m a mama’s boy through and through. President of the mama’s boy fan club.”“She told me she was going to let me decide what I wanted to do.”“If you don’t like my mom, there’s something wrong with you.”Soft CTASubscribe to the Keys and Anklets Podcast so you never miss an episode.Support the show and join the community:Patreon | KeysandAnklets.com | Upcoming Events | CoachingEpisode Type: FullEpisode Number: 159Season Number: Not UsedExplicit Content: YesDuration: 00:29:14
In this episode, Michael C. revisits one of the earliest topics he covered on the podcast: the differences between hotwife, stag-vixen, and cuckold relationships.Rather than focusing on sexual acts, he explains why the real distinction comes down to who drives the sexual dynamic inside the relationship.Timestamps00:00 Introduction01:13 Episode topic introduction03:10 Why labels often create confusion05:10 The sexual power framework08:40 Why sexual acts don’t define dynamics12:05 Understanding cuckold power dynamics14:30 Origins of the stag-vixen label17:10 How hotwife couples typically operate19:40 How stag-vixen couples differ21:50 Why kink preferences don’t define identity24:00 Closing thoughtsFeatured Quotes“Labels don’t really matter. What matters is finding a dynamic that works for you.”“Kinks are like a buffet — everyone’s plate looks different.”“I look at where the sexual power resides.”Soft CTASubscribe for more conversations exploring the psychology and realities of the wife-centric lifestyle.Support the podcast:Patreon | Website | Lifestyle Events | CoachingEpisode Type: FullEpisode Number: 158Season Number: Not UsedExplicit Content: YesDuration: 00:26:06
In this episode, Michael C. welcomes Coco for a candid conversation about sexual empowerment and personal transformation. Coco’s story highlights how discovering pleasure later in life can become a powerful catalyst for confidence, healing, and personal freedom.Together they explore the emotional, psychological, and social aspects of female sexual discovery and discuss how lifestyle communities can create spaces for empowerment and connection.Timestamps00:00 — Episode introduction05:30 — Coco’s first orgasm at age 3810:00 — Sexual trauma and women’s experiences13:30 — Discovering lifestyle events16:30 — Female friendship and compersion20:00 — The experience of single women in the lifestyle29:30 — First group experiences38:00 — Learning to prioritize personal pleasure45:00 — Advice for women entering the lifestyle56:00 — Final message of empowermentFeatured Quotes“Before you can enjoy sex, you have to learn to like your body.”“Women have to empower other women.”“We can be whatever we want.”Subscribe | Patreon | Website | Events | CoachingEpisode Type: FullEpisode Number: 157Season Number: Not UsedExplicit Content: YesDuration: 01:02:36
In Episode 156, Michael C. and Mr. Mocha dive into the debate around what it means for men to “bring their A-game” in the lifestyle.Is it about sexual performance? Confidence? Emotional awareness? Or something deeper?The conversation explores how unrealistic expectations can create pressure for men and why communication between couples is the key to maintaining healthy lifestyle dynamics.Timestamps00:00 – Podcast intro00:02 – Introducing the “A-game” concept00:08 – Male performance expectations00:18 – Husbands vs Bulls comparison00:30 – Competition myths in the lifestyle00:42 – Performance vs presence00:55 – Masculinity and expectations01:08 – Redefining the A-gameFeatured Quotes“Everybody talks about bringing their A-game—but nobody defines what that actually means.”“Performance matters—but confidence and respect matter more.”“If couples don’t communicate clearly, expectations turn into pressure.”Connect with Keys & AnkletsSubscribe to the podcastSupport the show on PatreonVisit KeysAndAnklets.comExplore lifestyle events and coachingEpisode Type: FullEpisode Number: 156Season Number: Not UsedExplicit Content: YesDuration: 01:19:56
A few weeks ago I attended a lifestyle party and while there I encountered this woman and she and I struck up a conversation. I found her to be a delightful and engaging woman who had such a captivating journey. I am always fascinated when I meet single women in this lifestyle, especially those who entered the lifestyle as a single. Being that this lifestyle primarily focuses on couples and Bulls, you rarely hear from single women but they do play a prominent role so I like to share their perspectives whenever I am able to because their stories are so inspiring to other women. So sit back and enjoy the story of how Liberty found her tribe, her voice and her sexual power.
Episode 154 features a candid conversation between Michael C and Mr. Mocha about reading the room in the lifestyle.They discuss how subtle cues — body language, tone, proximity, and energy — often reveal whether someone is interested or uncomfortable. The conversation also explores common mistakes men make at lifestyle events and why patience and respect matter far more than aggressive pursuit.Timestamps00:00 — Podcast introduction02:30 — How this spontaneous episode started05:00 — What “reading the room” really means08:20 — Body language and attraction signals12:40 — Why some men misinterpret signals22:10 — Flirting vs pushing for sex30:20 — Creepy behavior at lifestyle parties36:00 — Group play etiquette40:00 — Learning to walk away45:30 — How hosts manage event dynamics50:10 — Party expectations and participationFeatured Quotes“Most people fail at reading the room because they’re reading it with their sexual organs.”“Why would I want to have sex with someone I had to pressure into it?”“The sun is still going to come up tomorrow if you let one walk by.”Soft CTASubscribe to the podcast for weekly conversations about the wife-centric lifestyle.Join our Patreon community for exclusive episodes, behind-the-scenes content, and event updates.Episode Type: FullEpisode Number: 154Season Number: Not UsedExplicit Content: YesDuration: 01:03:53
In this episode of the Keys and Anklets Podcast, Michael C. welcomes longtime lifestyle participant Drew Marston for a wide-ranging conversation about what it means to navigate the lifestyle as a bull.Drew shares how he first encountered the lifestyle at 19 years old, attending his first party as an observer before eventually becoming an active participant. Over time, his experiences helped him develop a deeper understanding of the different dynamics within the lifestyle and the importance of communication, emotional intelligence, and mutual respect.The discussion explores several key topics including:• How bulls discover and enter the lifestyle• Differences between stag/vixen and cuckold dynamics• The evolution from casual play to intentional relationships• Race, fetishization, and the BBC stereotype• Race play and the importance of trust and boundaries• Drew’s journey coming out as bisexual in the lifestyle• Why honesty and authenticity strengthen lifestyle connections• Advice for new bulls entering the lifestyleDrew also discusses his blog and magazine Spades Mag, his plans for writing a book about his experiences titled The Making of a Bull, and the possibility of launching his own podcast in the future.This episode offers thoughtful perspective on how maturity, communication, and self-awareness can shape healthier and more rewarding lifestyle experiences.Timestamps00:00 – Introduction03:00 – Drew’s first exposure to the lifestyle05:00 – First lifestyle party experience08:30 – Balancing vanilla dating and the lifestyle12:00 – Launching the Spades blog and magazine16:00 – Understanding lifestyle dynamics20:00 – Taking the bull role more seriously27:00 – Race and fetishization in the lifestyle34:30 – Race play and trust44:30 – Coming out as bisexual within the lifestyle56:00 – Authenticity and personal growth01:10:00 – Defining the “gentleman bull”01:13:00 – Advice for new bulls01:24:00 – Drew’s upcoming projectsFeatured Quotes“Couples want the dick. They don’t want you to be a dick.”“Some of my best friendships came from people I never would have met outside this lifestyle.”“Being honest about who I am opened more doors than hiding it ever did.”Soft CTASubscribe to the Keys & Anklets Podcast for more honest conversations about the wife-centric lifestyle.Support the show on Patreon and visit KeysAndAnklets.com for events, coaching, and more resources.Episode Type: FullEpisode Number: 153Season Number: Not UsedExplicit Content: YesDuration: 01:28:58
Any Splash Mocha event is always a whirlwind of activity. There is always something going on and the event always feels like it just flies by. With that in mind, one of the things I enjoy doing is these recap episodes with one of my brothers. In this episode I am joined by Mr. Mocha and we touched on various topics that came up while we were at the event. As usual, we go off on tangents however, we still keep lifestyle topics first and foremost.
Whenever I attend a Splash Mocha event, one of the highlights for me is being able to sit with my 3 brothers (Pagan, Demitri and Mr. Mocha) and chop it up live and in person. I never set up any type of script with these guys because the conversation just flows so naturally and for me, is far more entertaining and engaging. To set the setting, we were sitting in my room in the company of several other ladies who were attending the event. (I always enjoy having female energy present for these Roundtable episodes whenever possible. I just feel that it adds a little something extra. However, with this episode, having them there did lead to the episode coming to a rather abrupt end because the sexual energy present in the room became a little too much to ignore any longer lol. So for anyone wondering after listening to this, yes….things got quite wild after this was recorded.









Hi Michael. We are an Australian couple who haven't dipped our toes in the hotwife pool yet but are very keen. We have had a couple of 3 ways (with girls_ no men) and have felt that it brought us closer, improved communication and for me gave me a lot to be excited about. Your podcast for both of us has been so helpful and full of insight. You clearly articulate everything and ask such relevant humble questions that I myself would ask. I always say " God he asks great questions" . You really understand where the husbands are at in their heads. You're respect for all involved makes me wish you threw parties over here. Thank you for normalising it all. its helped hubby a lot. And it really is a classy podcast as well.
she is awesome
I am sure her next episode would be awesome.
this initial podcast is very inspiring. thank you!
GREAT interview!!! Very informative and entertaining! 👍
Loved Miss P, great interview!
Wow, learned a bunch from the First episode! I'm hooked, thanks for sharing.
where can we find her blog?
Love the show!! How do we contact the 4 horsemen?
this has been great and important to me and my girl! thank you and keep up the great work!
I enjoyed this a lot. as a black man a lot of guys find it strange that I get turned on sharing my lady with others. my girl and I have been in the hot wife lifestyle for a few years. have had good and sub par moments in this lifestyle. but I get extremely turned on when she goes out on dates or is texting guys. I'm loving this lifestyle bruh
Good stuff..Where's the Amber Blank interview?
loving this podcast.... about 15 years in myself... totally identify with all you're saying...