What We're Tasting

Moving beyond workhorse bottles, you'll find a country full of distinct regions and a broad range of grapes. Explore Syrah, Cabernet Franc, and find out whether or not Cabernet Sauvignon is Chile's best red grape. A Carménère conversation looks at its sometimes polarizing flavors and considers the grape's place in Chilean wine. Befitting a nation with huge coastline, seafood and its natural partner in Sauvignon Blanc get a nod as well. Wines discussed: @3:56 Valdivieso 2014 Caballo Loco Grand Cru Limari Syrah (Limarí Valley) @8:05 Undurraga 2015 T.H. Terroir Hunter Alto Maipo Cabernet Sauvignon (Maipo Valley) @15:00 Maquis 2011 Franco Cabernet Franc (Colchagua Valley) Transcript: Jameson: Welcome to Wine Enthusiast's What We're Tasting Podcast. I'm your host, Jameson Fink. Join me as we discuss three fantastic wines and why each one belongs in your glass. This episode, we're looking at Chilean wines with Michael Schachner, who covers and reviews wines from the region. What We're Tasting is sponsored by Vivino. With the largest online inventory, Vivino finds the right wine every time. Including delicious Chilean wines. Download Vivino to discover and buy your favorites. And stock up at vivino.com/wineenthusiast. So a couple of months ago I met with a Chilean winemaker, Rodrigo Soto of Veramonte and more wineries, too. And we had an early morning conversation. Had coffee, it was very nice. No wine, it was like 8:30 in the morning. Maybe a little too early for wine, except for maybe sparkling. But that's a story for another day. But it was a really candid chat and I appreciated him talking about issues that Chilean wine faces in the United States and sort of the challenges that it has. And one of the things I thought that was interesting that I wanted to talk about with you, Michael, welcome to the show. Michael: Hey, thanks, Jameson. Jameson: Chile has this reputation wine-wise of just being this like value center, like value. Like 10 dollar wines and things like that. And one of the things we talked about is the challenge of people, you know, who are gonna spend 30, 40, 50 and more dollars on a bottle of wine to consider Chile as a source of those wines, which it certainly has. Do you see it as a challenge that Chile has to face? There are amazing values there, but now it's almost to its detriment as far as people trading up. Michael: I mean, Chile certainly built its reputation in the Western world with value wines. But that was like from a different era. More of a 1980s, especially a 1990s phenomenon, back when there really was quality wine being produced for under $10. But Chile has since then gone to probably one of the most organized and best-accessible tier systems of any of the New World producers, any of the major wine producing countries in the world. Chile I think is the seventh-largest wine producer in the world. And while probably a good chunk, 50% or more, of what they produce is still in that value category, you can go at multiple levels on top of that. You can go to a value plus level very quickly. High teens, low 20s. You can then go to what I consider to be what they do at their best. And that's a mid-tier plus luxury minus. And these are wines in the 30 to 40 dollar price range that you just talked about. And then they have their high-priced iconic wines, which they are modeled after California, Bordeaux, Italy, places that have had plenty of success with $100 and up wines. Chile has those, they struggle to sell them. Jameson: Well, I think that's our notion as wine drinks of value is also, value doesn't necessarily mean inexpensive, too. I mean, actually the three wines we're gonna talk about today are all in the $30 to $35 range. And I think when you start spending, you can still talk about value when you talk about wines that are over $10 or $15 or $20. Michael: Yeah, no. One of the great things about Chile is that they can deliver superb wines. Wines that rate 90 plus in this kind of mid-tier plus range. The economies of scale work for them. Larger vineyards, a cheaper workforce than, say, in the heart of Napa or in France or in Italy. And so it works to their advantage. They're able to extract a lot of quality and hence the consumer, you, me and anybody else, can receive a lot of good value at wines that are 20, 25, 30, 35. Jameson: So the first wine I want to talk about is Syrah. It's the Valdevieso, 2014 Caballo Loco Grand Crew Limari Syrah, it's a mouthful. The first thing I wanted to ask you ... Editor's Choice, 92 points. The first thing I wanted to ask you about that wine, is Syrah, Syrah is something that I don't really expect from Chile, or know that much about. Is this a rising star? Or have they been making it really notably for a while? Michael: No, I wouldn't say that they've been making it notably for that long. It's a great variety that came in when I would say in the modern era. These are wineries and winemakers that have evolved from a basis of Cabernet, and Cabernet Sauvignon, and Carménère. And then there's been a lot of experimentation. Chile has a terroir and a layout that's very similar to the west coast of North America. The north is very desert like, so that would be your Baja, California, San Diego area. Then you come into the southerly lake region. That would be like the northwest. And then you have that cut in the middle. And that to me reminds me very much of California. And so the same way California has had success and the ability to grow a multitude of grapes due to very kind, sun rich weather. Chile's very much the same. Especially in its central valleys. Limari is an area up north, it's an area that was known mostly for fruit production. And maybe growing grapes that were produced into Pisco. But winemakers started to understand that there's some limestone up there. There's coastal influences, and that maybe they could produce something in the vein of a cool climate type of wine. Chardonnay was planted up there, some Sauvignon Blanc as well, and Syrah. To try to capture a more oceanic style. Sauvignon Blanc didn't fare well, but the Syrah in Limari, although not a lot produced, I have found to be really excellent. It's a leaner, more structured style, but still gets enough son to be ripe. It's not tomato-y or green. It's more full bodied, but it just has something that gives it a unique character. Maybe it's those limestone soils. I'm not sure, but this one's an interesting one. Caballo Loco, the crazy horse. Valdivieso is one of the more traditional wineries in Chile. It's been around for a while, but they have explored different regions, they've explored different grape types, I would call them a more progressive type of larger winery. Caballo Loco has always been there catch all type of wine. Named after one of the owners of the company, who exhibited tendencies of being a crazy horse. He was a let's do this, let's do that, we can do this, we can do that. So he always had a wine named after him, Caballo Loco. And for a long time it was a mystery blend. It was generally speaking Cabernet Sauvignon, but they would never tell you the vintage, they might blend a few years here and there. They've expanded a little bit with Caballo Loco, to include this Grand Reservo variety thing, and it's again supposed to imply that this is a weird off the grid type of wine, not something you're going to see a lot of. There really are only a couple of producers of Syrah in Limari, and Valdivieso is one of them. Jameson: And where, just to orient myself, if I fly into Santiago, I mean how far away are we from the Limari valley? Michael: Limari is actually a bit remote. I would put it up in that northern quadrant of the country. It's very dry, it's where the Atacama Desert meets the ocean in it's most southerly area. You would go to the coastal city or La Serena, that's where you would go to get to the Limari valley. You can fly there, or I think it's roughly about a six hour drive from Santiago straight north on the ocean, and I've been up there once before. It's pretty remote, but it's cool, and just like the whole Pacific Coastline there, it's really quite beautiful. Jameson: And let's move on from Syrah, and talk about a grape that's maybe more well known in Chile. And that's Cabernet Sauvignon. So the second wine I want to talk about is the Unduragga, 2015 Terroir Hunter, Alto Maipo Cabernet Sauvignon, 91 points. First of all what is this Terroir Hunter series of wines all about? Michael: Unduragga, I can give you a little bit of background on them as well. Unduragga, that's a very big name in Chilean wine. The Unduragga family founded Unduragga, probably three, maybe four generations ago. It was one of the early family owned wineries in the Maipo Valley. They sold to a multi faceted business man, about ten years ago. And obviously acquired the brand name, that was important. And Unduragga has continued to produce a large amount of wine, but also some really interesting wines. Their most interesting are in the Tey Hachey, TH series, Terroir Hunter. And this is where their winemaker, a really cool progressive young guy, good friend of Rodrigo Soto. And a guy that I've loved to work with a lot, love to quote, love to meet with when I'm in Chile, or when he comes to New York. His name is Rafael Urrejola. And Rafa is a really good winemaker. Comfortable in various different varieties. Makes good Pinot Noir, makes some good Syrah, has been very involved in reclaiming the old vines of the south, down in Maule and Etota, so you get some Canyon, and some Malbec's, under this series. So it's usually older vineyards from various specific Terroir's within Chile, and there giving light to this. Going to Cabernet, is obviously the prime variety for Chile. It's what it's known for, and this wine comes from Pirque, which is a real, super good Cabernet zone. It's in the Maipo Valley, it's only about 20 miles outside of Santiago. Foothills of the Andes, can see the mountains from there.

If you're looking for a new wine destination, add the Finger Lakes to your list. From sublime and varied Rieslings to fresh reds, this cool-climate region in upstate New York has plenty for everyone. Wines discussed: @5:10 Hermann J. Wiemer 2016 Estate Bottled and Grown Dry Riesling (Seneca Lake) @8:30 Sheldrake Point 2017 Dry Estate Bottled Rosé (Finger Lakes) @12:40 Damiani 2016 Sunrise Hill Vineyards Lemberger (Finger Lakes)   Transcript: Jameson Fink: Welcome to Wine Enthusiasts, What We're Tasting Podcast. I'm your host, Jameson Fink. Join me as we discuss three fantastic wines and why each one belongs in your glass. This episode, we're looking at wines from the Finger Lakes with tasting director Alexander Peartree, who covers and reviews wines from the region. What We're Tasting is sponsored by the Vivino with the largest online inventory, Vivino finds the right wine every time, including bottles from New York's Finger Lakes region. Download Vivino to discover and buy your favorites and stock up at vivino.com/wineenthusiast. We've talked about the west coast, visited a few places there, went to Texas, and now I think it's time to turn our attentions to wine on the east coast, and in New York, specifically the state of New York, which I live in, and shockingly to some people the state is more than just the city of New York, it's a big, giant state full of interesting wine regions, and for me one of the most interesting is the Finger Lakes. It's a beautiful region, I highly recommend you visit. I don't know if it's underrated, it's starting to get the attention that I think it deserves for a wide variety of wines. I'm really excited to have you here today, Alex to talk about the Finger Lakes. Welcome to the show. Alex Peartree: Thank you very much, Jameson. Jameson Fink: And I guess the first thing is, I mean, I was like my ignorant New York geography I probably need a little lesson. We're in Manhattan right now, but the Finger Lakes is a fairly, a long, not a long journey, but a journey from New York. Where exactly are the Finger Lakes? Alex Peartree: Yeah. It's about a five hour drive from New York City. Most people don't really think beyond the greater New York City area, and they consider upstate New York, Westchester, or like the Poughkeepsie, but the state extends far beyond that, and the Finger Lakes are kind of in central New York, if you picture where Rochester, and Syracuse are they kind of fall right in between the two. Yeah. There's 11 lakes, but there's only about a few of them are pretty much the focus of the wine growing region. Jameson Fink: Yeah. A little quick sidebar, when I lived in White Plains, a friend of mind said, "Oh, you moved upstate," and I was like, "Westchester is not upstate," but that's an argument for another show. Alex Peartree: It's not even an argument. Jameson Fink: But the cool thing about the Finger Lakes is I mean it's really, they're aptly named, I mean they do look like vertical fingers going up and down, it's really quite geographically fascinating. Alex Peartree: Yeah. No. The amazing thing about the Finger Lakes, so there's 11 of them, and they were all carved by glaciers tens of thousands of years ago. They range in deepness levels, but when you look at them from above, yeah, they have that distinct like long skinny finger like look, so it's definitely interesting. Jameson Fink: As far as grapes go, I think my first introduction into wines of the region, and maybe it's the same for a lot of people is through Riesling, is Riesling kind of the Finger Lakes calling card grape? Alex Peartree: Yeah. Riesling has definitely taken hold in the Finger Lakes, it's a cool climate variety that seems to be suited quite well to the variety of soils, and different microclimate that are available in the Finger Lakes. Jameson Fink: How much influence do the lakes have on making it a great wine region? Alex Peartree: Without the lakes there would not be wine there, I mean, that is like 100% true, so the lakes are actually the moderating factors, which help cool, keep the climate relatively cool in the summer, because the summers can get quite hot up there, and then in the winter it helps keep the area around the vineyards a little bit warmer, because it can get pretty cold up there. The lake's kind of soak up all the heat from the summer, and extend it through the winter, so that the vines don't die. Jameson Fink: Yeah. When I was there, I was there in October a few years ago and it was snowing, it started snowing when we were in a vineyard, I was just shocked, I was like, wow, this weather is an extreme region for grape growing. Alex Peartree: Yeah. I mean, I'm an upstate New Yorker, myself, I'm from Rochester, so I'm quite used to the diversity of weather patterns they have up there, and I was recently up there in probably April of last year, and you would think right about then, like it's peaking into spring and it's a lot warmer, but no there were definitely some snow storms, and it was kind of crazy. Jameson Fink: Yeah. Spring and fall you might want to bring a coat and maybe even a hat and gloves. I mentioned a Riesling earlier, the first wine I wanted to talk about is the Herman J. Wiemer 2016 Estate Bottled and Grown Dry Riesling from Seneca Lake, 92 points. One of the things that I think that's interesting about Riesling in general, and maybe specifically in the Finger Lakes is I think people still think sweet when they think of Riesling, but can you talk about dry Rieslings and what they're kind of flavor profile is? Obviously they're dry, but do you still get a lot of that Riesling, those hallmarks of the Riesling grape? Alex Peartree: Yeah. The wonderful thing about Riesling is it can be done in a variety of styles. As you said, most people are more familiar with the sweeter styles of Riesling, just because I think they're more familiar with German Rieslings, and the more commercial Rieslings that have come out of that area. While the Finger Lakes does do Riesling from dry to dessert style wines, I really think that their dry Rieslings are quite expressive and quite different. The Wiemer, the 2016 Dry Riesling, typically, well, from year to year it has this very consistent taut minerality to it, there's nice tension through it, which makes it a really, really balanced and expressive wine, on the other end it also has pretty ripe fruit expression, so there's a lot of peach and stone fruit, a little bit of apple to kind of flush it all out, but at the end it finishes dry and crisp. Jameson Fink: Yeah. Even with Rieslings that have some sweetness to them especially in cool climate regions I think people would be surprised on how dry they drink, because they've got that great acidity, they've got that zip, too, so even though there's that sort of sense of sweetness type of expression when you kind of finish it with that acidity and liveliness that actually might even taste drier than a lot of quote on quote, dry wines made from other grapes. Alex Peartree: Yeah. Definitely. Jameson Fink: Yeah. Don't be afraid of a little sweetness in your Riesling. Alex Peartree: Absolutely, not. No. Jameson Fink: Yeah. And I think, it's also that we said about the Finger Lakes is that you can find Riesling in every shape and form like from bone dry to sort of German style exquisite nectar dessert wines. Alex Peartree: Yeah. They do a lot of late harvest wines up there, and they actually have a good production of Ice wine, because in certain years it actually does get cold enough in the winter to do a traditional Ice wine harvest where you're letting the grapes hang on the vine through December, January, and harvest them, which is not something I would ever do, but I'd totally drink the wine. Jameson Fink: Yeah. I spent one day in a summer years ago, one day, picking grapes and it was the most back breaking work I've ever done. I can't imagine what it's like. I think you have to, do they have to take off every single berry? Alex Peartree: Yeah. They got to weed out the specific berries, and I believe they can't really wear gloves because they need to have dexterous fingers. Jameson Fink: Oh, my God. Yeah. Alex Peartree: t's crazy. Right? Jameson Fink: I don't know, maybe I'd volunteer for one day of that kind of labor, I have a lot of admiration for people who can handle that, not me. Let's move from Riesling, let's talk about Rosé, which is everywhere, which is great. I want to talk about the Sheldrake Point 2017 Dry Estate Bottled Rosé, which you gave 90 points to. Are you seeing more and more Rosé from the Finger Lakes? Alex Peartree: Yeah. Over the years there's definitely been a Rosé boom, and I think that goes across the board for most regions, however, it doesn't mean that every region produces an amazing Rosé, and I think for the Finger Lakes, because it's a cooler climate it actually produces a really nicely balanced Rosé. The Sheldrake is a 100% Cabernet Franc Rosé, which I think is a lovely style of Rosé, you kind of get the herbalness and like the spicy kind of berry notes of Cabernet Franc, but you also blend in later stone fruit notes, and a little bit of that crisp mineral zing. Jameson Fink: Yeah. I really like Cab Franc Rosé. One thing I was thinking about recently with rosé is when you drink a lot of sort of pale nondescript kind of watery ones you don't really get the sense of the grape that it's made from, it sounds kind of silly, and I've written about this before, like with the Cab Franc Rosé, I mean, kind of with your eyes closed you get those notes of sort of like more savory notes that Cabernet Franc has so I think it makes a really distinct Rosé that stands out from a lot of kind of watery, bland plonk. Alex Peartree: Definitely. Yeah. Beyond Cabernet Franc, the Finger Lakes also produces Pinot Noir Rosés, Rosés from Lemberger, Blaufränkisch, so they really kind of hit the whole gambit in terms of Rosé. Jameson Fink: When we talk about Cabernet Franc in Rosé f

It's got a long, storied history, but Greek wines still deserve more attention from today's curious drinker. Explore islands, indigenous grapes, and must-try reds. Wines discussed: @3:27 Gaia Wines 2017 Wild Ferment Assyrtiko (Santorini) @11:40 Nasiakos 2016 Mantinia Moschofilero (Mantinia) @16:16 Alpha Estate 2015 Hedgehog Vineyard Xinomavro (Amyndeon) Transcript: Welcome to Wine Enthusiast's What We're Tasting Podcast. I'm your host, Jameson Fink. Join me as we discuss three fantastic wines and why each one belongs in your glass. This episode, we're looking at wines from Greece with Executive Editor Susan Kostrzewa, who covers and reviews wine from the region. What We're Tasting is sponsored by Vivino. With the largest online inventory, Vivino finds the right wine every time, including wines from Greece. Download Vivino to discover and buy your favorites, and stock up at Vivino.com/wineenthusiast. Greek wines aren't getting enough due, and I think as modern wine drinkers we should be connected to a country that has such an amazing past, so Sue, thank you for being on the show. Susan Kostrzewa: Thanks for having me. Jameson Fink: Are Greek wines just not getting enough due? Why aren't they more well known, or are they better known than I think they are? Susan Kostrzewa: I don't think they're well known enough. I love Greek wines, and they've been making wine for 4,000 years. So you'd think with all that time we would have found out about them by now. But I think part of the issue is a pretty simple one. It's kind of surprising, I guess, in a way that this could hold something back, but the names. The names of the grapes, the names of the producers, they're in Greek. Jameson Fink: Yeah, right. Susan Kostrzewa: You know, it's all Greek to you and me. But it honestly, I think, for so many years the producers of Greek wines were labeling all of the wines in Greek. So only really Greeks in the US, so Greek restaurants, Greek people, Greek immigrants were drinking that wine. They were the ones who could read the labels. It scared everybody off, so that was one very simple thing. I think that kind of deterred regular wine drinkers from getting into it. Then you also have the whole retsina thing, which for many years in the US, retsina, a not very well-made retsina was what was being exported into the country. So a lot of people have literal and figurative hangovers from the retsina days. There's great retsina being made now, and I'd love to talk to you about that, but I think there's still, I run into a lot of people who when I say I'm rating and reviewing Greek wine, I love the Greek wines, and were like, "Oh, I hate retsina." It's the first thing they go to, so I think there have been some starts and stops along the way that have deterred people who should know about it from knowing about it. And thank God, like the psalms are the ones who started the trend in the US again. They were the ones tasting it. They were like, "This is amazing. You should know about it," and sort of gained momentum from there. Jameson Fink: Yeah. I mean, I'll be guilty as charged. I mean, I remember when I was a buyer at a grocery store, we had like one Greek wine. It was a retsina, and of course I became more knowledgeable after that. I remember actually when I was still working in there, some new wines were coming into the marketplace, and they were exciting and interesting indigenous grapes, but it's sort of like, I don't know if it's maybe like Chianti with the fiasco, the straw kind of bottle that people still associate like a whole region or a country painted with that kind of broad stroke. But I don't know, nowadays, and I think you mentioned what? Sommeliers, and of course wine buyers all over are doing with Greek wines as sort of championing them and getting them in front of people, which I think is the biggest reason. So the first wine I want to talk about is one this definitely been a darling of the sommelier scene, and maybe not to its detriment, but maybe we're not seeing enough of other wines, but it's Assyrtiko, which comes from the island of Santorini. So the first wine I want to talk about is the Gaia wine's 2017 Wild Ferment Assyrtiko from Santorini which is 92 points. First of all, can you just tell me what is Assyrtiko and what makes it special on Santorini and in the world? Susan Kostrzewa: Assyrtiko is a white wine variety, it's indigenous to Santorini, which Santorini is basically a huge block of volcanic rock. And this is the variety that loves that volcanic rock. And even though it is being grown in other areas of Greece, I think its original and best home is Santorini. So Assyrtiko is a fresh, very linear, kind of sea salty, delicious white wine. Crisp, like I said, great with food. I think it's very unique, it's got a touch of smoke, and sea salt, and all the things you would associate with volcanic soil. And the other thing that's interesting about it, is they've never had phylloxera on the island, so there's some very old vines on that island. They're bush vines, they're low to the ground. If you've ever been to Santorini- Jameson Fink: Of course I've been to Santorini. Susan Kostrzewa: Yes, of course you have. Which, by the way is one of the most beautiful places in the world. Jameson Fink:  It is, yes. Susan Kostrzewa: Whether you love wine or not. Jameson Fink: The bluest of blues there. Susan Kostrzewa: It's amazing. And one of the things that's so cool about it is the first time I went I remember being with a big group of wine journalists who were all very knowledgeable and we were rolling by this sort of field. And it's super dry, and it's not a hospitable island as far as greenery goes. It's very hot and dry. And we were driving by this vineyard, and we're kinda looking at it, and we stop and we're all like, "What is this? This looks like a brush windswept field." And they're like, "This is the vineyard." And it's all these bush vines that grow their trained basically to protect the grapes from the super windy situation on the island. And it looks kinda crazy, and thread bare, and scrappy. But in the midst of this amazing vineyard are these great wines that are being made. So it's very unique. Jameson Fink: Yeah. That was exactly my experience. Like we're gonna go look at a vineyard, and you still have in your head oh, it's gonna be manicured rows with posts and what not. But yeah, the vines are woven into like a basket. Susan Kostrzewa: Yes. Jameson Fink: It's like nothing I'd ever seen. I have a million pictures of wine makers picking it up and lifting it up kinda like a man hole cover almost. It's really remarkable. And yeah, it sort of recalibrates your expectation. The climate there doesn't permit having training vines like that, they just wouldn't survive the wind and the heat. Susan Kostrzewa: Definitely, yeah. So I think it's one of the most unique places in the world as far as wine vineyards and unique wines go. So I'm a big fan. And I hope I'm pronouncing this correctly, I believe it's Gaia. Jameson Fink: Oh yeah, I pronounced it wrong. Susan Kostrzewa: Again, this is my beat and I still have a hard time pronouncing some of these. Jameson Fink: I gotta stop pronouncing these wines, I gotta make everyone do it unless it's something very simple. Susan Kostrzewa: But Gaia, the wine that you were mentioning, Wild Ferment Assyrtiko, Yiannis Paraskevopoulos, who is the wine maker there has really, he's really championed doing these sort of unique and experimental approaches to Assyrtiko. But he's also an awesome spokesperson for Greek wine. So you asked earlier about why we don't know about Greek wine, I think the producers themselves are on the road now. And they're doing an amazing job, they're the best people to champion what is happening in their country. And he, the wine maker here and the owner, is fabulous at doing that. So all of his wines are great. Jameson Fink: Yeah, I've also had ... Interesting things about Assyrtiko, I've had some older bottles, like it can age really well, which I thought was surprising. Susan Kostrzewa: Definitely. Jameson Fink: And it's not necessarily a heavy wine, but it's got some substance to it, it's not a super light, I don't know like Pinot Grigio. It's got somebody to it and a little bit of richness, but still super refreshing. Susan Kostrzewa: Yeah, I mean they're making sparkling Assyrtiko, their Assyrtiko blends with like Sauvignon Blanc that are really good. And then Retsina, their Retsina's now being make by which are made out of Assyrtiko. It's a very versatile grape. And like you say, it does have weight and complexity. It's pretty ... To me, it's again, one of the more unique wines that's being made in Greece. Jameson Fink: And another, let's keep going about island wines, one of the things that I think I clumsily said when we started is that you see a lot of Assyrtiko on wine lists, which is great. But also it's sort of like when's the next hurdle when we're gonna see more Greek wines from other islands and the mainland too? But I wanted to talk about Crete for a little bit, what are the wines like there as far as indigenous grapes? Are they doing reds, whites, both? Susan Kostrzewa: Crete may be the oldest wine making area in Greece. Again, I think when we talk about 4,000 years we talk about minoans , we talk about this incredible history of wine making on Crete. I was just there recently and spent a lot of time there. And everything is incredible, everything is old. Every olive tree is thousands of years old. They have an amazing history of wine making in general. But yeah, they make whites, they make reds, Vidiano and Thrapsathiri are two of the whites they make that I love that are just delicious, and refreshing, and again very unique to the island. Kotsifali's one of the reds. How do they differ? I mean every region of Greece is quite different. There are a lot of micro-climates. Crete is hot, and the wines are a little bigger, and a little

While the East and West Coast get the lion's share of attention, it's time to focus Texas. It's an exciting time to be making, and drinking, wines from the state. Explore the landscape, get to know the grapes, and find out which local bottles pair best with barbecue.  Wine Discussed:  @4:50 Llano Estacado 2017 Signature Rosé (Texas) @18:18 Haak 2014 Cabernet Sauvignon (Texas High Plains) @17:18 Messina Hof 2014 Paulo Limited Edition Red (Texas) Transcript:   Jameson Fink: Welcome to Wine Enthusiast's What We're Tasting Podcast. I'm your host, Jameson Fink. Join me as we discuss three fantastic wines and why each one belongs in your glass. This episode, we're looking at wines from Texas, with Assistant Tasting Director Fiona Adams, who covers and reviews wines from the region. What We're Tasting is sponsored by Vivino. With the largest online inventory, Vivino finds the right wine every time. Even wines from Texas, which you do want to mess with. Download Vivino to discover and find your favorites, and stock up at Vivino.com/wineenthusiast. When I think about wine in the United States, of course the West Coast comes to mind probably first. Definitely first. California, Washington, Oregon. Then, of course, being in New York, and spending a lot more time living here on the East Coast, I'm getting more into New York wines, and trying things from Vermont and Virginia, of course. But a area I really know very little about wine-wise is Texas. I'm really excited to have you here on the show, Fiona, and give me a education in Texas wine. Welcome to the show. Fiona Adams: Thank you for having me. Jameson Fink: The first thing I want to know is where are they making wine in Texas? How many wine regions are there? What's going on? Fiona Adams: There are a handful of wine regions, but the two main ones, where they're doing most of the grape growing, a lot of the wineries are based there, are in Texas Hill Country, which Fredericksburg is the main town there. It's just outside of Austin and San Antonio. A little bit more to do. Then in West Texas, we've got the High Plains. So Lubbock, Odessa area. That's where they're doing most of the grape growing. It's really flat. Just a lot more space to work with. Most of the cotton grown in the United States is also grown there, so maybe grapes will edge them out. Jameson Fink: Or stock up on your white t-shirts and get some wine. Fiona Adams: Yeah, exactly. You can just ... disposable white t-shirts, with all the red wine they're making. Jameson Fink: What are the main grapes they're growing, red and white? Fiona Adams: They do a lot of pretty much everything there. I'd say the main standout red grape that's really emerging as Texas's signature is Tempranillo. A lot of different people are making it. It's pretty interesting. Then, in the whites, it's a lot of mix of just warmer weather white grapes. A lot of Rhône grapes, Roussannes, Marsannes. They've got Albariños, Chenin blancs, and your classic Sauvignon blanc, Chardonnay, Riesling, so they're really still in the experimentation phase in finding their true signature grapes, but it leads to a lot of different, interesting wines in a whole bunch of different styles. Jameson Fink: Usually, I don't like to say like, "Oh, is this region like this?" I like to judge things on their own merits, but just, if you're not familiar with Texas, if you like these kinds of wines, it might remind you of this, or the land might remind you of that? Is it unique, as far as geographic weather, or ... Fiona Adams: The weather? I mean, it's Texas, so it's hot. You should expect some fuller-body wines. Wines with a little bit more alcohol. Wines that are just a little bit fuller in character. A little heartier. But they have a lot of talented winemakers who are making things that are really elegant and lighter-bodied, as well. It might be really hot there in the summer, but they also get really cold there, which not a lot of people know. It's pretty decent elevation. Winters get pretty cool. They've got a really great temperature change, day to night, out in the High Plains. Hill Country is a little bit more what you would expect. Pretty humid, pretty hot, but not as much grape production is going on there. Jameson Fink: What's the elevation, in ... As far as it goes? Fiona Adams: It's high. Jameson Fink: Yeah, it's high. Fiona Adams: Not as high as New Mexico, but higher than most places. Higher than you would expect. Jameson Fink: High enough to get a diurnal shift, dare we say? Fiona Adams: Oh, yeah. I mean, Texas ... The big joke about Texas is, depending on what part of the state, the season can change. You could have winter in the northern part, and it be a snowstorm, and then go further south, and it's 100-degrees, and 1,000% humidity, and chilling at a beach. You get a little bit of everything. Jameson Fink: Yeah. One of the scariest snowstorms I ever drove through was in Texas. Fiona Adams: People don't think about snow when it comes to Texas, but they've got plenty of weather. Jameson Fink: Yeah. Well, speaking of weather, it's right now, here in New York and all over the country, it's a prime rosé drinking season, so actually the first wine I want to talk about from Texas is a rosé. It's the Llano Estacado 2017 Signature Rosé. 89 points, best buy. Can you tell me a little bit about this wine as far as what's in it, and what it tastes like? Fiona Adams: It's a really tasty rosé. It's definitely got that lighter, Provençal color going on. Really pretty, like those classic strawberry and fruit flavors. Then the blend has got some more of those Rhône grapes that are doing really well there. I believe it's Cinsault, and ... Jameson Fink: Carignan, Mourvèdre, and Grenache. I have it in front of me. Fiona Adams: There you go. So more like a classic Rhône blend, but they've been able to keep it really refreshing, and pretty, and all of those things that people are really looking for in their rosés right now. It's just ... I mean, it's a great price. It's great wine. Jameson Fink: Are you seeing a lot of dry rosés like this from Texas? Fiona Adams: Oh, yeah. They do a ton of dry rosé there. There's been a handful of producers that are canning their rosé. I mean, it is hot in the summer there. You want to sit outside, and drink rosé, and hang out. There's, I mean, a huge variety. I mean, they are definitely doing a lot more of those Rhône grape blends for their rosés, but you can find a few of those Cabernet Sauvignon ones. It's going to be a little bit fuller than a Provençal-style, but I wouldn't go into saying it's dark rosé, that you need food. It's that really light, approachable style. Jameson Fink: It reminds me of, I mean, I was just talking with Sean Sullivan about Washington State and Eastern Washington. I mean, it's really hot out there, and it's very deserty, but you get these ... You can still ... I mean, it's just like Provence. It's hot, but you produce these wines from grapes that make these thirst-slaking wines that you want to drink in the heat of the summer. Fiona Adams: And they've got canned rosé. Who doesn't want canned rosé? Jameson Fink: I want canned rosé! Fiona Adams: There's a couple of cool producers who are making these canned rosés. Messina Hof, who we'll talk about later. They do a canned rosé that's really tasty. There's a few other guys who are doing it, as well. Then Lewis Cellars makes a ton of rosé that's all Rhône-varieties. They're just so pretty, and so delicious. He's really starting to master making those very light, refreshing, expressive wines with these grapes that can get insanely ripe in that heat. Jameson Fink: Yeah, and I think you mentioned canned wines, and I think ... People talk, "Oh, is it a fad, or a trend?" I mean, I think it's here to stay. We've gone past that. I think we're going to see more and more of canned wine. Fiona Adams: If you can can beer, why can't you can wine? Jameson Fink: I agree. I tend to like ... I mean, you can get a 12-ounce can. To me, it's like, "Okay, great. There's two glasses in there." Or I actually like better the ... I like the little Red Bull-sized, or what are those ... 250-milliliters. More like single-serving wines. Fiona Adams: Exactly. If you're having a barbecue or something, that small can ... Or going to the beach. Sitting by the pool. You don't want to deal with glasses and bottles. I mean, there's all those products that you can buy, but it's way easier to ... you throw in your six-pack of beer, and you throw in your six-pack of wine, and you're ready to go. Jameson Fink: That's right. They can live in the same cooler. Fiona Adams: Exactly. Jameson Fink: That's great. The second wine ... We're going to move into red wine territory. It's from the Texas High Plains. It's the Haak 2014 Cabernet Sauvignon. 88 points. What is a Texas Cabernet like? Fiona Adams: Texas Cabernet ... I mean, they're hitting all of those checkboxes that die-hard Cabernet Sauvignon-lovers really want. It's going to be fuller-bodied. They've got all that great tannin and structure. Some of those classic tobacco and leathery flavors. Then, because the fruit gets so ripe down there, they get really punchy red berries in there. All of their reds, really. It's just like ... You get all of those nice flavors, and structure, and support from the oak aging, but you're not overwhelming the fruit flavors, because they are just naturally so intense. Jameson Fink: Is it too corny for me to say, like, these are great wines to have with brisket or Texas barbecue? Fiona Adams: Texas barbecue! Absolutely. Brisket's big down there, and delicious. I mean, depending on who you talk to, they'll tell you 10 or 12 different barbecue places that you have to go to. I agree. You have to go to get them. It pairs well with ... Yeah. Those really classic Texas portions. Your big meat. You've got your cornbread, your potato salad. All the classic sides, and the wines just seamlessly pair with that traditional

Whether the blends are Bordeaux, Rhône-style, or something completely unique, Washington is serving notice that its red wines made from a mix of grapes are world-class. This week we talk to Wine Enthusiast Contributing Editor Sean Sullivan and get to know bottles from three unique regions, Red Mountain, Horse Heaven Hills, and Walla Walla Valley, and how vineyard site impacts what ends up in your glass.  Wines Discussed: @5:25 Underground Wine Project 2015 Idle Hands Red (Red Mountain) @12:11 Buty 2014 Columbia Rediviva Phinny Hill Vineyard Red (Horse Heaven Hills) @16:37 La Rata 2014 Red (Walla Walla Valley (WA)) Transcript: Jameson Fink: Welcome to Wine Enthusiast's "What We're Tasting" podcast. I'm your host, Jameson Fink. Join me as we discuss three fantastic wines and why each one belongs in your glass. This episode, we're looking at red blends from Washington state with Sean Sullivan, Wine Enthusiast contributing editor who covers and reviews wines from the region. "What We're Tasting" is sponsored by Vivino. With the largest online inventory, Vivino finds the right wine every time, including wines from my dear home state for a decade of Washington. Download Vivino to discover and buy your favorites. Stock up at vivino.com/wineenthusiast. One of the conversations we always have about a wine region or a state is having a signature grape, does it have to have a signature grape. Definitely with Washington, what's really interesting about that is you could probably say Merlot, you could say Cabernet, perhaps even Syrah. I think what's interesting about Washington, besides its diversity in grapes, is its red blends. For me, that's where a lot of excitement is so I'm excited to speak with you about this, Sean. Welcome to the show. Sean Sullivan: Thank you very much for having me. Jameson Fink: With red blends, I think ... Also, I should mention that you wrote a really interesting article for winemag.com about wine blending and red grapes. If you go to winemag.com and search for wine blending, it will come up. I was thinking about Bordeaux-style blends, your Cabernet-Merlot, Cabernet-Franc, et cetera, based blends. Rhone blends, which are your Grenache, Syrah, Mourvedre, and a few other suspects might be involved in that, too. Sean, is Rhone ... Are the Rhone blends, the red blends, is that really where a lot of kind of the excitement and really interesting things are being done in Washington? Sean Sullivan: Yeah. I think that in terms of ... Bordeaux-style blends have really been done for quite some time in Washington now. It's really only more recently ... If you look at it, Syrah has really only been in the state ... It was first planted in 1986 and the plantings have been growing ever since, so it's a reasonably short history. It's really only much more recent that we've started to see an increasing number of wines using Grenache and using Mourvedre and some of the other varieties, as well, in Rhone blends. Definitely, we see a lot of those, as well some very exciting wines being made in that category, but we see people blending with pretty much everything under the sun in the state. We have over 70 different grape varieties planted here and people are experimenting with a lot of different things and they're trying to blend with a lot of different things and seeing what they find. Jameson Fink: Do you think, just because I think Syrah has been such a rising star, that that's kind of ... Obviously, some of these blends are Grenache-heavy or possibly Syrah-heavy or another grape, but it seems like, with sort of the ascending stardom of Syrah, where it has that kind of savory Old World notes and some good acid and some of that kind of New World lift and power, is that kind of playing a part in the popularity of Rhone-style blends? Sean Sullivan: Not just in Rhone-style blends. Even in Bordeaux-style blends, we see some wineries blending in sometimes a little bit of Syrah, sometimes a lot of Syrah, which you could say is that still a Bordeaux-style blend or not. I think one of the things you get with Syrah, in addition to the things you said, is that you get that nice plush richness of fruit flavor that a lot of consumers find very, very appealing. I think we see Syrah being used in a variety of different types of blends in addition to the Rhone-style blends. Jameson Fink: I kind of think of ... This is something just when I first came to Washington in 2004, 2005, that I found interesting, and I really hadn't seen it anywhere else, is it seems like there's a lot of Syrah-Cabernet blends that kind of ... A little bit of Syrah, a little it of a Cabernet, is that kind of a signature Washington blend? It seems really interesting. Sean Sullivan: Yeah, it's definitely something that you see a lot of in the state and people have been doing at least going back to the early 2000s, if not earlier. There are two ... Right, you see it a little bit elsewhere in the world, such as Australia. You see those types of blends, but it's definitely something that we see a good bit of here in Washington and something that I think can be done very, very well in Washington. It's a good marriage of the two varieties. Jameson Fink: Yeah. You're not sort of ... That's one of the nice things about a fairly young wine region is you're not kind of bound by tradition, like, "Okay, we can either make a Bordeaux-style blend or we have to make a Rhone-style blend." It's like, "Hey, let's take a little bit from Column A and Column B." Sean Sullivan: Well, I was told a great story by Steve Griessel at Betz Family Winery where he was saying that he had a winemaker in from Bordeaux, from a fairly well-regarded winery. They were working with a series of barrel samples and he said the first thing the Bordeaux winemaker did was take some Syrah and try blending it into the Bordeaux blends and kind of seeing what that looked like. It's something that I think a lot of people are experimenting with. As you said here, it's early days and very much the Wild West, and so people are trying different things and trying to see what works. It leads to a lot of excitement and a lot of interesting wines being made. Jameson Fink: Yeah. Well, let's talk about one of those interesting wines. The first one I wanted to talk about was the Underground Wine Project 2015 Idle Hands red from Red Mountain, 90 points. When we were talking about this earlier, that ... It's 90% Syrah, 10% Cabernet, so it really could be labeled as Syrah. Sean Sullivan: Correct, could be labeled as Syrah. They actually make ... Underground Wine Project makes another wine that's the flip of these wines called the Devil's Playground that's 90% Syrah ... Excuse me, 90% Cabernet and 10% Syrah, as well. Yes, this wine could be ... To be a varietally labeled wine, it needs to be at least 75% of this variety. At 90% for this particular wine, it's well above that but they're labeling it as a red blend. I think partly in doing so, it gives them the flexibility to change that blend over time if they wish, and partly red blends are just a very, very hot category now and have been for the past few years. Jameson Fink: Yeah. I picked ... That was something I wanted to talk about, just because a lot of ... We might be drinking a lot more blends than we even know, just because any bottle of Cabernet or a single variety grape, whether red or white, it can have a certain percentage of other grapes in it. I think that is kind of an interesting development. A lot of people might not know that when they buy a Syrah. They're like, "Okay, it's a Syrah," but you know what? It might have 10% Cab, it might have 15%. I think that's kind of an interesting thing for people to kind of dig deeper in if you're ... Those lovely PDF tech sheets with all the wine data on them, it's pretty interesting when you sort of dig down a little and get the blend. Sean Sullivan: Yeah, absolutely. I think most wines are blends of some type. Either they're blends of different barrels, they're blends of different varieties, they're blends of different vineyards, they're blends of different appellations, and so it can be very interesting to look down in that and say, "Okay, what is the 5% of this? What does it bring to the wine? Why did the winemaker add it?" Sometimes, you can try to figure that out and try to taste that in the wines, and sometimes it's much more subtle and it can be hard to do. It's definitely interesting to think about. Jameson Fink: It's like all the wine world is a blend. Sean Sullivan: All the wine world is a blend. Exactly. Jameson Fink: Actually, that ... When you said a little, kind of detecting those smaller percentages, I thought it was really interesting, just going back to your article about wine blending when you talked to James from Syncline about one of his blends has 2% of something in it. A lot of people would be like, "2%? What the hell is that going to do? That's not going to contribute anything," but he was ... He spoke very strongly about, "Yeah, that's something ... When it's there, you can taste it and, when it's not there, it's a different wine." Sean Sullivan: Yeah, absolutely. Another part of that conversation with James which didn't make it into the article, he was also talking about sparkling wines. He was talking about the dosage or adding of sugar to those wines, as well, and he was saying that as much as a quarter of a milliliter can radically affect the taste and overall sensation of the wine in a sparkling wine. It seems ... 2% in a 750 mL bottle seems like an extremely small amount but he's saying even tiny drops of sugar to wine can also radically affect them, as well. That's part of the article. Jameson Fink: Yeah. Look, I'm just going to give a little sidebar even though we're talking about red blends, that the Syncline sparkling wines are great, and the sparkling Gruner is really cool. Sean Sullivan: Yeah, it's definitely ... It's both an extreme rarity and absolutely delicious and well w

In this episode Jameson speaks with Wine Enthusiast contributing editor Jim Gordon about how Zinfandel reigns supreme in the eyes of many, but Lodi wines are astonishingly diverse.  Wines Discussed: @4:48 Klinker Brick 2017 Albariño (Lodi) @8:08 Scotto Family Cellars 2017 Dry Sangiovese Rosé (Lodi) @14:18 Jessie's Grove 2015 Ancient Vine Carignane (Lodi) Transcript: Jameson Fink: Welcome to Wine Enthusiast's What We're Tasting podcast. I'm your host, Jameson Fink. Join me as we discuss three fantastic wines and why each one belongs in your glass. This episode, we're looking at the wines of Lodi, with wine enthusiast contributing editor, Jim Gordon, who covers and reviews wines from the region. What We're Tasting is sponsored by Vivino. With the largest online inventory, Vivino finds the right wine every time, including lots from Lodi. Download Vivino to discover and buy your favorites, and stock up at Vivino.com/wineenthusiast. So while I was doing some reading on Lodi, doing a little reading up, a little research, a little due diligence, I came across this phrase, and this is the phrase: Something subversive is afoot in the vineyards of Lodi, California. When I read that, the first thing I thought about was actually Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure, the part where they say, "Something strange is afoot at the Circle K." But this is not about Bill and Ted. We're here to talk about wine in Lodi, and actually, my guest Jim wrote that line, not about Bill and Ted, but about Lodi, and I think it was really great because a lot of people still consider Lodi ... they look through the lens of bulk wines, mass produced wines, nothing but jammy Zinfandels, etc. etc. But that's really ... I mean, it's part of the story, of course, but what's really exciting about Lodi is what's going on there with what we might call underdog grapes, and people doing really interesting and exciting things. So, I'm excited to have Jim here to talk about Lodi and get to know it a little better, and sort of that hidden, subversive, underdog Lodi that's happening right now. So Jim, welcome to the show. Jim Gordon: Thank you, Jameson. Happy to be here. Jameson Fink: And you know, when I was ... I was in Lodi two years ago, and that was my first time there, and I was at a wine reception for the wine blogger's conference. It was 100 degrees there, not surprising, it's pretty hot there, and I was seeking out well-chilled white wines. And I was really impressed with ... I had a Grenache Blanc and a Vermentino there, and I didn't expect to have either of those wines. Maybe I was naïve and I had a lot to learn, that wouldn't be surprising, but I thought it was a really exciting tasting that I discovered all these interesting new white wines. Can you kind of just talk about the breadth and depth of grapes that are being grown there besides the usual suspects? Just give me a few. Start me off with a few to tantalize me. Jim Gordon: Yeah, sure. You know, the region has been known for almost commodity level Cabernet, Merlot, Chardonnay, etc. But, there's Albariño, there's Vermentino as you said, there's Kerner, there's Teroldego, there's Cinsault from 120 year old vines, Carignan. Some of those have been there forever, you know, decades if not a century, but many others have been planted in the last several years to make Lodi a lot more interesting place. Jameson Fink: And why do you think winemakers are attracted to these grapes in Lodi versus Cabernet or Merlot or Chardonnay? What's the appeal in your mind? Jim Gordon: I kind of think they're trying to go 180 degrees from what people think of Lodi. People think of it producing sort of fat, lazy Zinfandels or big Chardonnays that are kind of soft and buttery. I think a lot of them are trying to do something the opposite of that, like crisp or tannic or biting or more vivid, not just a big softy like the mass market ones, but something more artisanal, more interesting, more intellectual in a way. Jameson Fink: Mm-hmm (affirmative). And I guess I want to back up. I don't know if a lot of people even know where Lodi is. It's not far from Sacramento, correct? Jim Gordon: True, it's south of Sacramento, and almost due east of Napa. I live in Napa, and it's an hour and a half drive roughly to Lodi. It's an interesting place. It's in the northern ... basically the northern end of the San Joaquin Valley. It's just on the edge of the Sacramento and San Joaquin River Delta, where it's kind of a bayou area of California, where it's basically at sea level. So, even though it's inland and it does get hot, but it has the water. When you have water and hot land, you have breezes, so it's not as hot as you would think. It's nothing like the southern San Joaquin Valley, more like around Madera or Fresno. This is quite different than the northern part. Jameson Fink: So you mentioned earlier Albariño, and the first wine I wanted to talk about was the Klinker Brick 2017 Albariño, which you gave 89 points to. Can you talk about ... I mean, I know Albariño from Spain mostly. Is the grape similar there in Lodi? Is it producing a similar style of wine, something different, or is it a little bit of both? Jim Gordon: This one is more similar to what you would find in Spain or Portugal I think, than most would be, which is why I liked it. It's refreshing, it's crisp, there's low alcohol, relatively, 12.8%, and that's why I liked it. I think I described it a lot like one would describe some Albariños from the Iberian Peninsula. So I think they purposefully picked the grapes early enough so it didn't get too high in alcohol, too full in body, and they got something that's really refreshing, mouthwatering. Jameson Fink: Yeah, you said it's a great antidote to rich and oaky wines. Jim Gordon: Yeah, perfect. Jameson Fink: Although, I do like rich and oaky wines. I have a soft spot for those. But I am a liberal. I like light, crisp, fresh, rich and oaky, everything in between. Jim Gordon: Yeah, me too. I like some of each. I want crisp and fresh on a hot summer day, and depending on the weather or the food, I like fat and buttery as well. Jameson Fink: Yeah, I'm gonna make this a podcast feature where I complain about the heat, because it's like 85 degrees here today, so that wine sounds really, really good today. I think that's also interesting about the lower alcohol levels. Like you said, it's under 13%, which maybe you probably wouldn't associate with Lodi. I mean, I might think, oh everything's gonna be 15% or 16% or something crazy outrageous, but is there a movement ... I mean, just in general in Lodi or beyond, are you seeing people sort of ... wine drinkers saying, "Hey, I want something lower in alcohol." Or winemakers are saying, "You know what? I'm gonna pick a little earlier and make a wine that's less alcoholic." Jim Gordon: Yes. I think people are demanding it, some people are, and I think winemakers in general in California, which is where I live and where I cover wine for Wine Enthusiast, have backed off on the high alcohol that they were doing five to 10 years ago. Not radically ... so, let's say a typical vintage now is a few tenths of a point lower in alcohol than it used to be, plus, wineries, many of them, like this Albariño there, are producing new wines that are more crisp and lower in body. So, it's partly what they've done to the line of wines, say, well, we've already been making, but also coming up with new varietals or new styles. Jameson Fink: Yeah, absolutely. So, Albariño is definitely a grape ... I mean, we're looking at Lodi, there's a wine region I think in the Columbia Gorge, bordering Washington and Oregon always says we have everything from Albariño to Zinfandel. And I want to talk about another grape that maybe is a little unusual to see in Lodi or really in the United States as much as say like, Italy, and that's Sangiovese. And I thought it was really interesting to see a Rosé made from that. The second wine that I wanted you to talk about was the Scotto Family Cellars' 2017 dry Sangiovese Rosé, which you gave 88 points to. Jim Gordon: It was a really interesting, dry Sangiovese in the Rosé mode. It was relatively low in alcohol for California, 13%, but I liked it because of the sort of grip that Sangiovese gives you. I mean, in the Chianti or super Tuscan blends that have Sangiovese as a red wine, it's known for tannin and acid and kind of a really grippy feel on your palette. And a little touch of that comes along with the Rosé, which I appreciate the ... Rosé is so popular now, and in California, practically every winery is making a Rosé or two, but it hasn't really settled into a style for this valley or that valley. Everybody's using different varieties. Some are darker reds, some are light reds, some are crisp, some are fat like barrel fermented even Rosés. This one I liked because it's crisp, it has a sort of tangy, slightly tannic mouth feel, and to me that's palette cleansing and refreshing. Jameson Fink: Yeah, you talk about a Rosé, I mean, it's just such a ... the category has just exploded and it's still growing. How prevalent is Rosé in Lodi, and is it something that's just happened over the last few years? Or have they been making Rosé in Lodi and we just didn't know about it? Jim Gordon: It's relatively new in terms of today's type of Rosé. I'll bet you in the 70s they were making Rosé in Lodi, but it would have been something quite different. Jameson Fink: Yeah, like a white Zinfandel ... sweet. Jim Gordon: Yeah, exactly. That was the commercial mainstay of Lodi for some years, providing grapes for white Zinfandel. You know, they've had a revolution there in wine making since that period, and I guess this Rosé is just one example of the stuff they're doing now. Jameson Fink: One of the things that you talked about briefly was the abundance of old vines in Lodi, and I think when I visited, that was the thing that blew me away is to see these vines from the 19th century, these g

Vermouth is having a revival and getting the respect it deserves. In this episode we speak with Kara Newman, Wine Enthusiast's spirits editor. Find out why it belongs as a featured ingredient in your home bar, the diversity of styles and flavors available, and tips on mixing it up. Vermouths Discussed:  @3:00 Routin Dry Vermouth  @7:30 Lustau Vermut Blanco  @15:12 Imbue Sweet Vermouth  Transcript Jameson Fink: Welcome to Wine Enthusiast's What We're Tasting Podcast. I'm your host, Jameson Fink. Join me as we discuss three fantastic wines and why each one belongs in your glass. This episode I'm talking about vermouth with contributing editor, Kara Newman. Kara covers spirits for Wine Enthusiast. What We're Tasting is sponsored by Vivino. With the largest online inventory, Vivino finds the right wine every time, and it's also got vermouth, which is a wine too. Download Vivino to discover and buy your favorites, and stock up at Vivino.com/wineenthusiast. So, I was recently at a bar, not surprising, and I was thinking about vermouth because the person I was with ordered a martini, and the bartender made a big show of pouring a cap full of vermouth, and putting the cap full of vermouth into the glass, swirling it, and then dumping it out, and just said, "This is the most important step in making a martini." So, I wanted to talk to you, Kara, and welcome to the show, about vermouth because I feel like it's still even in this day in age, it's underappreciated, and people aren't enjoying it as much as they should. They're just dumping it out, and that was a criminal, that was a traumatizing moment. So actually what I want to ask you, Kara, is how do you like vermouth in your martini? What's your play there? Kara Newman: Well, my go-to is actually a 50/50, so that means equal parts gin and vermouth, and that's actually a lot of vermouth. That's a pretty wet martini. Although, I just like to have it in the martini at all. It's funny that happened to you. The same thing happened to me in Rome. I was appalled to order a martini, and they poured in the dry vermouth and made a big show of shaking it, and then pouring it all out. I was like, "Oh my god, what are you doing? Are you crazy?" Jameson Fink: It's such a waste. I do like the 50 ... another great thing about a equal parts 50/50 martini too is that you can have a lot more of them, and that's another thing that's nice about vermouth as more of a starring role. And then you've got sort of like the ultimate expression of that, which would be the reverse martini, which would be- Kara Newman: Right, that was Julia Child's play. Jameson Fink: Oh really? Kara Newman: Yeah, I think she was the first person I ever heard of doing a reverse martini, yeah where lots more vermouth and just a splash of gin. Very civilized. Jameson Fink: Yeah, and that's a good drink to have while you're in the kitchen cooking too. Kara Newman: You know it. She would know it. Jameson Fink: She would know it, she would know it. Kara Newman: If Julia says- Jameson Fink: Yeah. And also the thing with vermouth is that we're seeing kind of an explosion of small batch crafted type of vermouth's from all over the country and all over the world, and I think we have so many more available to us now, and also with different flavors and types. So, the first wine I wanted to talk to you about, and vermouth is a wine, it's just fortified- Kara Newman: Correct. Fortified, aromatized, correct. Jameson Fink: Aromatized and fortified. God, that sounds so cool. It's a French vermouth. It's the Routin dry vermouth, 91 points, best buy, and what are people doing with vermouth in France? I mean, I don't even know what's the tradition of vermouth there? Are there certain ingredients that they use that's kind of like a signature? Or is it just kind of it's anything goes, whatever you want to use? Kara Newman: Well, traditionally you only heard about French vermouth or Italian vermouth and there were no other vermouth's out there in the universe for years and years and years. And recently we've had more of an explosion where we've seen vermouth, as you said, from all over the world. But the Routin, the one that you mentioned, that one's more of an alpine vermouth and it has more botanicals, more of those beautiful herbs and flowers, and they even have bitter almonds listed in their botanical list. They really have this beautiful alpine sensibility. Jameson Fink: Now is it rare to ... I think like a lot of those things it would be like a closely guarded secret- Kara Newman: Oh, you know it. Jameson Fink: ... do you see, like obviously there's some things that they're not listing, but do you find more people are just like, "Hey, we're gonna let you know what some of the flavorings we use to make this vermouth." Kara Newman: Every now and then you see ... You're absolutely right, it's definitely held close to the vest. I mean, sometimes I think it's because it's a secret, sometimes I think it's because they change it pretty frequently, and it might be based on what's available. But I'm not sure that there's really a ... I'm trying to think if there's anyone who's really giving their full list of botanicals. Usually you just see a number if they talk about it at all. Jameson Fink: Right, like the secrets herbs and spices. Kara Newman: Exactly. Very KFC. Jameson Fink: Yeah. And then this vermouth is a dry vermouth, and you mentioned in your review that it's martini material, so what is ... I mean, there's different kinds of vermouth, but so if I'm shopping, do I want to look for like, okay, I'm making martinis, I want a dry vermouth? Kara Newman: Well, for martinis, I would usually go for a white vermouth as opposed to a red vermouth. I think dry vermouth is lovely in a martini and can be very crisp. It goes really well with gin. I'm also a fan of Blanc vermouth, which are a little more oxidized. They have a bit more of like a honey note, and there certainly are a growing number of Blancs and Blancos out there. But yeah, dry would probably be my go-to for that perfect classic martini profile. Jameson Fink: And what about too, we've talked a little bit about oh vermouth, you mix it, you put it as ingredients in things, what about drinking vermouth solo, like just on the rocks with a twist? Is that something that's becoming more popular or do people still look at vermouth as like, oh vermouth is just, it's an ingredient, it doesn't stand on its own? Kara Newman: I'm seeing a lot of vermouth and tonics. Jameson Fink: Oh okay. Kara Newman: Yeah, that's sort of a Spanish tradition, and every now and then I'll see a vermouth tonic. That's very refreshing. Vermouth, tonic, a nice curl of citrus peel. Oh, it can be so good. A little tapas on the side- Jameson Fink: And then that's kind of too with this trend of ... which is great about vermouth, it's got so much flavor, but it doesn't pack the punch alcohol-wise that vodka or gin or something like that would too. Is that also maybe helping revitalize vermouth that people are trying to make these more kind of culinary cocktails or things that are ... you can have a few more of them rather than just one giant stiff martini that's 100% vodka? Kara Newman: Well, we are definitely seeing a trend toward lower alcohol cocktails, what people call session cocktails. You can hang out and have them over a session. And vermouth forward cocktails are definitely a huge part of that. The Bamboo, the Adonis, those are two cocktails that are literally nothing but vermouth, like two different kinds of vermouth. Vermouth, sherry, all kinds of lower alcohol cocktails are definitely on the forefront right now. Jameson Fink: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, no doubt. And then actually, this is great because we're not just talking about vermouth, we're drinking some vermouth, and the second wine I found really interesting because I know Lustau is a great sherry producer, and I was really excited to see that they now have a vermouth, at least it's new to me, and this is the Lustau Vermouth Blanco, 94 points, and it's a sherry-based vermouth made from fino and sweetened with Muscatel wine. It's really good. And is this more of that oxidized style that you were just talking about? Kara Newman: Yeah, this one's definitely Blanco. This is actually two of my favorite trends of vermouth right now. Jameson Fink: Uh-huh, in one bottle. Kara Newman: In one bottle. Because I mean, I love the Blancos, and those I will drink straight up. Just a little ice is really all I need. But there's also a trend toward ... trendlet, toward more sherry-based vermouth's. There are I think three or four on the market right now, and this one, Lustau was actually the first one out to my knowledge ... and it's so good. Jameson Fink: Yeah, it's really delicious. I mean, it's really ... I mean, you can smell sort of the beautiful grapes, but then it's got that kind of oxidized character too. I mean, it's really good. It's just good. I mean, we're just drinking this on its own and it's pretty damn good. Kara Newman: No, it's nice. I mean, it's got that honey, it has floral characteristics. I mean, a bit of chamomile. It's just really pretty and drinkable. Jameson Fink: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yes, it's pretty and drinkable, absolutely. So it seems like the dry vermouth is the classic martini vermouth, but what do you like to do besides just enjoying it on its own or with maybe a little soda or something like that? What do you like to do with this as far as cocktails go? Kara Newman: I think Blancos are really nice with anything that has a bit of citrus to it. I was playing around with kind of a gimlet martini mashup over the weekend, and I was trying to make a lemon cordial that I then combined with some gin and some Blanco vermouth, and it was really quite nice. Jameson Fink: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Kara Newman: You're looking very skeptical. Jameson Fink: Oh no, no. I'm just thinking, I'm just imagining you in your home ... like I'm thinking of

In this episode Jameson speaks with Wine Enthusiast European Editor Roger Voss about rosé from Provence. Its color and flavor are the epitome of summer wine. But there's more to rosé from Provence than its looks and taste. Explore the surprising diversity surrounding this pale pink charmer and find out why it should be enjoyed all year long. Wines Discussed: @3:15 Château la Vivonne 2017 Les Puechs Rosé (Côtes de Provence) @9:28 Commanderie de la Bargemone 2017 Rosé (Coteaux d'Aix-en-Provence) @13:58 Gassier 2017 Château Gassier Cuvée 946 Rosé (Côtes de Provence Sainte-Victoire) Transcript  Jameson Fink:       00:08          Welcome to Wine Enthusiast's What We're Tasting podcast. I'm your host, Jameson Fink. Join me as we discuss three fantastic wines, and why each one belongs in your glass. This episode, I'm exploring rosé from Provence, with contributing editor Roger Voss, who covers and reviews wines from the region. So if I was able to go back in a wine time machine, maybe 20 years or so, when I was first starting to drink wine, I was certainly drinking rosé and enjoying it, but I never, ever would have expected rosé, and particularly, rosé from Provence, to be so incredibly popular as it is. It just seems like it's beyond a trend. It's its own category, it's continuing to grow, doesn't seem like it's going to slow down. It seems like rosé is just a part of our life, like red wine, and white wine. Which is great, but I wanted to explore it a little further, and get to know the world of Provence rosé with Roger Voss. Roger, welcome to the show. Roger Voss:          01:14          Thank you. Thank you for having me. Jameson Fink:       01:16          It's delightful to talk about rosé. It is almost tropical here in New York. It seems to be a theme that I'm exploring, it's really hot out, it's really humid, and luckily, we're talking about wines that fit this season. Of course, rosé fits every season, but Roger, what's your take on ... I mean, are you surprised at how popular rosé from Provence has become? Does it surprise you? Roger Voss:          01:39          Well, yes, because when I first got to know the American wine scene, rosé was sweet. It was called blush, and it was sweet. So it's astonishing to me that we've moved on from there, to drinking dry. That is really where Provence comes in. Because Provence, to me, is the perfect dry rosé. I always think, you combine sun, sand, sea, and summer with the sophisticated bars and restaurants beside the Mediterranean. That, to me, is the image of Provence rosé. And that's obviously gone down in America. Jameson Fink:       02:16          That's a good point, too. How much is that lifestyle, too, that's part of its popularity? Do you think that's tied in? It's sort of aspirational. Like, "I'm drinking this rosé, and pretending I'm transported to Provence"? Roger Voss:          02:29          Well, there is something about it. There's a little story, which I heard from one of the top producers. He spent a lot of time trying to sell Provence rosés, but he knew he'd arrived, when he got a phone call from one of the major yacht builders in the Mediterranean, saying, "Can you tell me the size of your double magnums? Because I need to ensure that the iceboxes, the fridges on my yachts, are big enough to take your double magnums." He knew he'd arrived. Jameson Fink:       02:59          I wish I had that thought going through my head. I wonder if my fridge is big enough to fit double magnums of rosé. I'd probably have to take out a couple shelves, but I think I could do it. But, really, I'm fortunately living more of a 750 milliliter standard bottle lifestyle. Let's talk about the first wine. I would like to attempt to pronounce it, Roger, but I think that would be a crime scene, and an affront to all things French if I did. I could sort of say it phonetically, but it would be awful. So I'm wondering if you wouldn't mind introducing the first wine? Roger Voss:          03:33          Sure. First wine is Château la Vivonne. It's 2017 vintage, because that is what rosé is all about. Young, and ready to drink now. And its cuvée name is Les Puechs. Jameson Fink:       03:46          That's from the Côtes of Provence, and that's 91 points, Best Buy. Roger Voss:          03:49          Yes, indeed. I reviewed it in March, and the review was published in July. Jameson Fink:       03:56          One of the things I'm interested about in your review is you talk about the wine, that it has a certain perfume, from the Mourvèdre. I'm wondering, what's the typical blend? Is that something that you see in a lot of these Provence rosés, that you're getting some Mourvèdre poking out, or is it, the blend vary? Roger Voss:          04:16          Well, Mourvèdre is a very specific grape to a certain part of Provence, which I'll explain in a second. To answer your first question, the general blend is Grenache, Cinsault, and Syrah. Those are the three which, in fact, they are the secret behind really good Provence rosé, which is why rosé from France is so good, 'cause it has Grenache in it. But Mourvèdre, to move onto this wine, is from a region called Bandol, which is on the coast, near Toulon. It's a very mountainous set part of Provence, and the Mourvèdre grape seems to have settled there, and loves it. So most of the Bandol wines have Mourvèdre in them. This wine comes from a producer who's actually based in Bandol, he just happens to have vines outside in the Côtes de Provence area, but he's also using Mourvèdre in his rosé. Jameson Fink:       05:15          So is it fair to say, this is, maybe, for Provence, kind of a heartier rose? Is that accurate? Roger Voss:          05:22          That's a fair word to use, yes. Slightly richer than your standard Provence rosé. And certainly to say, as I say in my note, more perfumed. Jameson Fink:       05:31          That's interesting too, because a conversation about Provence and its rosés is that of is ... there's certainly a lot out there that's sort of one-note, and so pale, it's almost watery, and nondescript. What's the variety? Am I painting Provence with too broad a stroke? Is there, within Provence, a lot of diversity of rosé? Roger Voss:          05:54          There is, yes. First of all, we have different appellations. de Provence is by far the biggest. But we've also got a wine, we're going talk about later on, from Coteaux d'Aix-en-Provence, which is slightly further to the west, and is Bandol, which, this wine comes from next to Bandol. Then there's other areas as well, within Provence. Now, you mentioned the color, and I think it's been very funny, because I review these wines every year. I've been noticing the color getting paler and paler each year. Until this year. Because, really, some of them were absolutely white. But this year, I've noticed they're actually ... a little bit of color's crept back in to even the palest of the rosés. So you naturally see it's rosé, rather than a white wine. Jameson Fink:       06:48          Do you think that's a product of vintage, or is it winemakers saying, "You know what, maybe we went a little too far with the pale, and it needs a little more color and flavor"? Roger Voss:          06:59          Well, I did say in my notes last year, they were just stupidly white, in some cases. So maybe they read those, I don't know. Jameson Fink:       07:08          They could've. They could have taken it to heart. Roger Voss:          07:11          They could've taken it to heart. But just, the problem you see with stripping out color, is you also strip out flavor. So, the paler the wines, very often, the less actual taste they had. So if you're drinking rosé really chilled, fine. But I taste rosés not chilled, because then I taste the wine complete. I was noticing with these really pale rosés last year, that they were getting less and less taste. So I'm glad to see they're stepping back from that really, really pale, almost white trend. Pale is fine, provided you can also have taste. Jameson Fink:       07:50          Yeah, and that's something interesting to talk about rosés, you think about Tavel, or something like that, that's a really deep, dark, rich rosé. But is it always mean that, oh, because its pale colored, it's going to be lighter, or that kind of thing? Can it be still pale, and still have a lot of oomph or structure? Roger Voss:          08:12          Well it can do, yes, and that's obviously, it's just up to the skill of the winemaker. The thing about rosé, all rosés, is lot of it to do with winemaking. Because of the use of the getting the color just right, and how long you macerate the skins of the grapes to get just the right color that you want and so on. So, rosé is probably the most, they say in the wine business, it's the most technical wine. Jameson Fink:       08:38          I think that's something that people would be surprised to hear about. I think people maybe think because, "Oh, rosé, it's summery, it's light, it's pale," people don't think that it takes a lot of skill and effort to make a rose like it does. They might think a red wine, or even a white wine, would need, necessitate. Roger Voss:          08:59          Yes, it actually takes even more skills than ... white wine's more difficult than red, and rosé's more difficult than white. You need to have a lot of skill, and you need to actually dedicate yourself to making a rosé, rather than just saying, "Oh, I've got some red juice, let's drain it off red grapes and macerating, let's drain them off, and we'll have some rosé." That doesn't work with good rosé. Provence has understood this, and so that's why their wines are good, even if, as we said, some of them are too light in color. Jameson Fink:       09:32          Well, let's move on to the second wine, so if you could go ahead and introduce that for me, Roger? Roger Voss:          09:36          Sure. This is from the Commanderie de la Bargemone,

In this episode Jameson speaks with Wine Enthusiast Contributing Editor Christina Pickard about how Sauvignon Blanc put New Zealand on the world wine map. But is it a one-trick pony or are there new discoveries and surprises when it comes to how, and where it's made? Wines Discussed:  4:07 Nautilus 2017 Sauvignon Blanc (Marlborough) 11:17 Clos Henri 2017 Petit Clos Sauvignon Blanc (Marlborough) 17:53 Peregrine 2017 Sauvignon Blanc (Central Otago) Transcript Jameson Fink:       00:04          Welcome to Wine Enthusiasts, What We're Tasting podcast. I'm your host Jameson Fink. Join me as we discuss three fantastic wines and why each one belongs in your glass.  This episode I'm exploring New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc with contributing editor, Christina Pickard, who covers and reviews wines from the region. What we're tasting is sponsored by Vivino. Vivino is the world's largest online wine marketplace, powered by a community of 30 million thirsty wine drinkers. Use the Vivino app to engage with 2 million wines, including loads of New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc, every single day. Many countries have established themselves on the world wine stage through one grape that caught the imagination of everyone. I can think of, in recent times, Shiraz from Australia, Malbec from Argentina. Today, I'm most interested in, of course, Sauvignon Blanc from New Zealand, and how it's captured the world's imagination, and taking a closer look at the grape. Christina, thank you for being here. I'm gonna start a little philosophically with a question. What is the appeal, do you think, of New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc? Why has it become such a worldwide phenomenon? Christina P.:          01:23          I think there was a critic, and I can't even quote this critic specifically because I don't know who it was, but one critic said, " Sauvignon Blanc from New Zealand was like having sex for the first time." That might sum it up. Jameson Fink:       01:34          Wow, I did not expect that answer. Christina P.:          01:40          Another one described the experience of drinking it as being strapped naked to insert super model of your choice, while bungee jumping into a bottomless pit of fresh gooseberry leaves. Jameson Fink:       01:53          I did not expect that either. That is not the direction I thought this would go. What would you say is the appeal of New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc? Christina P.:          02:02          I mean, look, I think it is crisp. It's zippy. It's really, pretty aromatics. It's just really likable, and in a fairly obvious way. In a super gluggable way. Right now, it's 85 degrees and humid, as we're recording this, and I'm thinking about a glass of New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc. I'm like, "Yeah. That would hit the spot right now." It's great in the heat. It's great for hot weather. In the summer, you can chill it down as much as you want. I think, it's just that that combination of being incredibly outgoing as a style, and a grape variety. An incredibly likable. It's a gateway drug, in a way, for a lot of wine lovers. I know for me it was. A lot of people tell me the same thing. "Oh yeah. I started my wine journey with Kiwi Sauvignon Blanc." Jameson Fink:       02:58          That's funny, my mom is a red wine drinker, but she looks at New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc as her lawnmower wine, like a lawnmower beer. Once a year when she ... she doesn't have a lawn anymore to mow, but when she did, that would be her wine of choice. It had that thirst slaking appeal. Christina P.:          03:17          Totally. It's also really grassy, that's one of it's main flavor profiles. I feel like mowing the lawn while drinking a really grassy wine is incredibly appropriate. Jameson Fink:       03:27          Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. I don't think she was doing it simultaneously, but definitely fresh cut grass is very New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc. Yeah, maybe that was part of it. She was overcome by fresh cut grass aromas, and the only thing- Christina P.:          03:39          She just needed to run in the kitchen and grab a glass. Christina P.:          03:46          I was picturing her, like one hand on the lawnmower, a glass in the other hand. Jameson Fink:       03:47          We encourage two handed lawn mowing, and not wine drinking. Even on the riding mower, too. Keep both hands ... keep both hands on the mower. Christina P.:          03:54          Yeah. Jameson Fink:       03:55          Public service announcement. Speaking about the first wine I wanted to talk about is, I guess, a classic textbook example of what we're talking about. It's the Nautilus 2017 Sauvignon Blanc from the Marlborough Region, 90 points. I guess, you can't talk about New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc, without talking about Marlborough. Can you talk about that region's place in the history of New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc? Christina P.:          04:23          Absolutely. I mean, yeah, Marlborough and Sauvignon Blanc, I think, are completely synonymous, as you said. It is, by far, the region that produces more Sauvignon Blanc than anywhere else in New Zealand, and actually produces more wine in general. Sauvignon Blanc makes up ... I don't want to quote exact stats, 'cause they're changing all the time, but it's something like 75 or 80% of their production is Sauvignon Blanc. It's a huge, huge product for them, from an export perspective, you know, domestically as well. At the heart of that is Marlborough. They are producing the wines here, by far, of this great variety and this style. Really, Sauvignon Blanc, as we know it from New Zealand, really started from this country, so, if you're going to start anywhere with this grape variety, I would say this is the perfect place to start. It's certainly the easiest to get a hold of from this region, as well. Jameson Fink:       05:20          Geographically, Marlborough is the northern tip of the southern island. Christina P.:          05:25          Exactly. The northeast tip. It's really split into two valleys. The Awatere Valley, which is cooler, there's more stonier soils, a little bit more maritime influence there. Stylistically, it's not huge difference, but you do tend to see a little bit more of a herbaceous style. Maybe a little crisper. Maybe a little more detectably higher acids. It's often compared to Sancerre, a little bit in style. I think it's like Sancerre on steroids. Kind of like, New World, a little bit more bold, brash flavors there. Definitely the more herbaceous, I think, of the two. Then, you get the Wairau Valley, which is just really wide river valley following the Wairau River. That's really split with ... it's separated between the Richmond Mountains, and that separates it from Nelson, which is another wine region that produces a lot of Sauvignon Blanc. That's a bit sunnier, a little bit warmer climactically. Then the Wither Hills in the south, that protects it from those harsh weather systems coming out of the southeast, and off the ocean, as well. Jameson Fink:       06:41          You call this wine, the Nautilus, a wine for oysters, if there ever was one. What else do you like food pairing wise, with New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc? Christina P.:          06:53          I mean, everything. Every kind of seafood under the sun, basically. Any kind of fish. Smoked scallops. Salmon is great with it. Then, I also love asparagus. Again, this is a flavor that you actually see in the wine, as well. Asparagus is often one of those flavor characteristics that comes up a lot in describing Kiwi Sauvignon. Asparagus, I like more of a buttery or a creamy sauce, 'cause all that acid from the Sauvignon Blanc seems to cut through that. Just salad, you know, summery salads with berries, or green beans. You could also do it with a little bit heavier food, too, like seafood risotto or paella or something. Watermelon gazpacho is one that seems to get paired with it a bunch. That sounds really good right now. Jameson Fink:       07:42          I'm also glad you mentioned asparagus, because I feel like when I was learning about wine, and you still read this kind of stuff, like "Asparagus is impossible to pair with wine." I actually had that written down. Asparagus in all caps, in bold. I think Sauvignon Blanc, and especially New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc is wonderful with asparagus, and it's not impossible to pair. Strike that from your wine rules. Christina P.:          08:06          Yeah. Oh yeah. Totally. I mean, 'cause asparagus has got a pretty strong flavor, so I could understand it would overpower a lot of wines. I think that this, particularly Kiwi Sauvignon Blanc is so, so brash and bold, in it's flavors, that I think it holds up really well. Actually, a geeky side note, a lot of those asparagus and bell pepper flavors that are detectable in this style of wines, come from this methoxypyrazines. Pyrazines are these aroma compounds, and you find them in a lot of the Bordeaux family grapes, like Loire Cabernet Franc, and Cabernet Sauvignon. When they're done well, it's all about canopy management and pruning. Viticulturists can actually control how much of those flavors that are gonna end up in the final wine, hopefully, assuming the vintage is good, by pruning, and by controlling the leafy part of the vines to tweak those aromas. When they're done well you get, like I say, the bell pepper, asparagus, the mint, and basil. When they're done badly, you start to get this mushy, mushy asparagus, or overripe peppers, that's not really that pleasant. I think it's a quality in the line that I really like, personally. Jameson Fink:       09:16          Yeah, I really ... I'm pro-pyrazine. I'm a big fan of pyrazines. Not like an overload of them, I don't know how I would measure that, but I like those kinds of flavors in my wine. I know they can be very outputting and polarizing for some people.                                              In fact, Sauvignon Blanc, it's funny, there are a lot of people I talk

It's time to give Central Coast Syrah its due. Not only does it produce age worthy wines, but you'll find a wide variety of styles and regions to explore. Wine discussed:  5:48 Stolpman 2017 Syrah So Hot Syrah (Ballard Canyon) 13:52 Samuel Louis Smith 2016 Sandstone Terrace Syrah (Santa Cruz Mountains) 17:25 Joyce 2016 Tondre Grapefield Syrah (Santa Lucia Highlands) Transcript Jameson Fink:  Welcome to Wine Enthusiast's What We're Tasting Podcast. I'm your host, Jameson Fink. Join we as we discuss three fantastic wines, and why each one belongs in your glass. This episode I'm exploring Syrah, from California's Central Coast with contributing editor Matt Kettman, who covers and reviews wines from the region. What We're Tasting is sponsored by Vivino. Vivino is the world's largest online wine marketplace, powered by a community of 30 million wine drinkers who use The Vino app to engage with 2 million wines (including Central Coast Syrah from California) every single day.  So when it comes to the top grape, the top dog in California, especially with red wine, everyone wants to talk about Cabernet. It's the wine people collect, it's the one that can age, it's the one that gets the most love, and press, and it's well-loved for a reason. It's a famous, famous grape. But I think we're giving short shrift to Syrah. it's underrated, it's versatile, and it also belongs in your cellar. So Matt, you have recently made the case for Central Coast Syrah, the area that you cover, as being age worthy. Can you talk about sort of your awakening with Syrah as a grape that is age worthy? Matt Kettman: Yeah, of course. I've loved Syrah since I started liking wine. I've always found it to be kind of one of the more interesting wines out there. And it was actually one of the first wines where I was in a tasting room, I read a note that said "cracked pepper", and I actually smelled cracked pepper. So I was like, "Wow, this isn't all completely made up. There's some truth to these tasting notes." Jameson Fink: Of course, they're completely objective. Matt Kettman:Of course, yes. So that really kind of turned my head not just for Syrah, but for wine in general. This is obviously a dozen or so years ago at this point. So that really kinda made me interested in Syrah. And then over the years I've been lucky enough to try some older vintages from people like Bob Lindquist at Qupe, he's been making single variety Syrah since the 1980s, and doing it really well. And then more recently, a couple things happened. One, I did a long vintage flight with Joey Tensley of Tensley Wines, and we tried every vintage he'd ever made from Colson Vineyard, which is this really remote spot in Northern Santa Barbara County. And they were all phenomenal, and not in ways that you would necessarily expect. Some of the older vintages tasted younger than some of the more recent ones, so it was really kind of eye-opening in that regard. And it also showed how Syrah can really speak of a specific place, and do so while also referring to that year's, the vintage's characteristics as well. And then a little while ago, couple months ago, I had been up at Hospice du Rhône and and tried zillions of different Syrahs and other Rhône varieties from around the world and the region. And I came home, and was hanging out with a buddy in my garage, which is kind of a defacto tasting den of sorts. And we popped open this bottle, this was pretty late at night, but we popped open this bottle of 1987 Qupe from Bien Nacido Vineyard, and we tasted it and we were both like, "This is maybe the best wine we've ever had in our lives." And I actually posted that to Instagram. And people were very not so much surprised, but they were surprised that I would say something like that I guess so publicly. Jameson Fink: Yeah. Matt Kettman: But also that somehow Syrah was up there. And I wasn't really surprised at all, because I had been tasting older Syrahs for a while. And I try to seek out old stuff as much as possible. But it was really just this phenomenal wine that you kept coming back to. And it really had developed beyond secondary and tertiary notes. There were just a lot of kind of crazy flavors and textures going on that were really memorable. Jameson Fink: Yes, I went back and stalked your Instagram, and I saw that post. Your quote is, "Very possibly the best wine I've ever had." And then two of the responses are, "That is quite a statement." "Bold statement." Matt Kettman: Right. No, and I wasn't, I stand by that statement. It was a phenomenal wine. And you know, it was obviously properly cellared and all of that, so it was kept well. You know, I don't know it was kind of mind blowing, which is funny. A lot of people have that happen with crazy old Burgundy, or some Chateau Margaux from 1954 or whatever. But for me it was just a simple 1987 Syrah from Bien Nacido Vineyard, and it was awesome. I taste a lot of great Pinot Noir, so when people ask me what my favorite grape is I usually have to say, "Well, I taste a lot of great Pinot Noir from this region." 'Cause we have that. But Syrah is still kind of my, you know that's the one that ... My heart goes out to Syrah I guess. It's had a lot of struggles over the years. It's been a little bit too widely planted, probably in regions where it doesn't do as well. But I love, especially cool climate Syrah. Stuff that comes from really coastal regions, I think it brings out a lot of the kind of inherent uniqueness to the grape where you start to get these really kind of gamey, meaty flavors. But you also get a lot of the pretty purple flower aromatics too. So I don't know, there's just a lot in Syrah that's there to love. And those flavors and aromas really develop over time as it sits in your cellar. Jameson Fink: Yeah, when you say there's a lot of Syrah, that first one I wanted to talk about was pretty much just for that reason. It's the Stolpman 2017 Syrah So Hot Syrah from Ballard Canyon, 92 points. And it's a wine made without sulfur, a natural wine. And you talk about chilling it down. I'm just wondering, are you tasting a lot more wines like that with no sulfur added, or minimal sulfur and the kind of light weight Syrah that you do wanna put a chill on and enjoy in an ice bucket? Matt Kettman: I'm starting to see more, I guess you'd call them kind of sessionable reds. Lighter reds. They're not all Syrah by any means. Some are Syrah. Ones that you would wanna put a chill on. They do tend to be Rhône varieties, or Cab Franc can kind of show up that way as well. But I've had some Cinsaults recently that were really light, and sessionable I guess. So I am starting to see that. As far as the natural wine movement goes, you know, there's a lot of people, especially in Santa Barbara County, but in other parts of the Central Coast that have always used kind of minimally effective sulfur. So they've never been big on adding too much. I don't see, I know there are a few brands that do it. I don't see a lot of all natural wine branding here, or brands here. There are some, but for the most part people are, I don't know, I guess professional about making their wines here. And they'll put a little sulfur in there to make sure it lasts. What's great about this Stolpman wine was that they tried to do it a different way. So they actually fermented it carbonically for the most part, which is to stay in a closed container without oxygen and without crushing the berries. So their Syrahs tend to be pretty rich and sumptuous, and thick. And that's because they get pretty warm days in Ballard Canyon and it makes the skins thicker, so that will lead to kind of a thicker wine during the fermentation. So for this one, they wanted to make something fresher. So if you ferment it carbonically the juice starts to ferment inside the berries, so you get less skin tan and extraction. So you can make this kind of lighter, fresher wine. And that's what they did. And to keep that freshness, they decided not to add sulfur. I think it was partially kind of an experiment to see how it would go. But it makes this really light, lovely, fresh wine, that really I think does deserve a bit of a chill to properly experience it. It's funny, I was trying to remember where we were, but now I do. We were at the World of Pinot Noir this past March. And the guys from the Stolpman team were walking around with a chilled bottle of this Syrah as kind of an antidote to some of the Pinot. So if you think about it in that way, using Syrah as a refresher for a bunch of Pinot, it kind of goes to show how light and refreshing this particular bottling is. Jameson Fink: Yeah, I was impressed, I was reading your review, and you actually called the aromas joyous. "It's a joyous wine." Matt Kettman: Yeah, I use that when it's, it almost means kind of juicy, or I'll also use the word playful from time to time. It just kind of means it smells like a fun wine. Smells like a wine that you wanna hang out with for the afternoon. And I think it's reflective of sunshine, and kind of that warmth during the growing season leads to some riper flavors. And especially, you know, when a wine's released that young, they bottled that in January. So for a red wine, that's pretty crazy to have it on the market at all at this point. But to have it on the market as early as March and February, right after harvest, it's gonna be just by design extremely lively, and really primary on the palate. It's not the most complex wine in the world, and I think my note kind of eludes to that. It's pretty ... I don't wanna say simple, 'cause that makes it seem kind of demeaning. But it's a light, fresh, fruity wine. And I think as much, for many decades, people have been trying to make these really rich, and layered, and deep wines. And they still do. But it's nice to have another choice in your arsenal there for something that maybe you have with lunch. You can have red wine with lunch and it's not too much. And you can enjoy t

Old World? New World? How do you describe South African wines? Take a look at white wines, red blends, explore the Swartland region, and experience Pinotage redemption. Also learn about the collaborative spirit guiding the Cape Winemakers Guild. Wine discussed:  Tokara 2017 Reserve Collection Sauvignon Blanc (Elgin) Terre Brûlée 2016 Le Rouge Red (Swartland) Adi Badenhorst & Duncan Savage 2016 Cape Winemakers Guild Love Boat Red (Swartland)