The Geek In Review

In this year-end episode of The Geek in Review, hosts Marlene Gebauer and Greg Lambert are joined by legal tech experts Niki Black, Principal Legal Insight Strategist at AffiniPay, and Sarah Glassmeyer, Director of Data Curation at Legal Technology Hub, to recap the top stories of 2024. From the evolution of generative AI in legal tech to groundbreaking acquisitions, the conversation delves into the successes and challenges that shaped the year in the legal industry. The discussion kicks off with a look at AI's growing role in legal research and practice management. Greg recalls the controversial Stanford report that questioned the reliability of AI tools marketed as hallucination-free. The guests explore the importance of unbiased evaluations, the complexity of defining legal research, and the rapid pace of AI development that often outpaces regulatory and academic studies. Sarah highlights the need for peer-reviewed analysis to guide the effective use of these tools, while Niki emphasizes the user-friendly interfaces that generative AI brings to legal software. Marlene shifts the conversation toward the challenges of integrating AI into law firms’ existing frameworks. The hosts and guests discuss the hesitancy of document management systems to adopt generative AI due to trust and security concerns. Niki and Sarah examine how firms are adapting to AI by organizing data more effectively and addressing client expectations. They also reflect on the potential of AI to bridge access-to-justice gaps, with tools that empower self-represented litigants and underserved communities. The episode takes a closer look at notable mergers and acquisitions in 2024, such as Bloomberg’s acquisition of Dashboard Legal and Thomson Reuters’ purchase of SafeSign Technologies. Sarah raises concerns about the consolidation of the legal tech market, warning of diminished innovation and competition. Niki observes how cloud-based technologies have facilitated these integrations, making it easier for companies to offer comprehensive solutions that touch multiple aspects of legal practice. Wrapping up, the group forecasts trends for 2025, including regulatory developments around AI and shifting priorities within law firms regarding tech adoption. While some predictions are cautious, like Sarah’s concern over the impact of external political factors on the tech workforce, others remain optimistic about the growing sophistication of legal tech. The episode concludes with reflections on how the industry can better prepare junior lawyers and law students to navigate an increasingly AI-driven landscape. Join Marlene, Greg, Niki, and Sarah for this insightful look back at 2024 and an exciting glimpse into the year ahead. As always, we thank our listeners for tuning in, and we encourage you to share this episode with colleagues and connect with us on LinkedIn or Blue Sky! Listen on mobile platforms:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠   Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@gebauerm⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@glambert⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.comMusic: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠   TRANSCRIPT

This week we welcome back Laura Leopard and Phil Flora from Leopard Solutions to discuss their latest innovation, the PROWESS platform. This newly launched tool aims to transform the way corporate legal departments manage and evaluate their relationships with outside counsel. As Leopard Solutions embarks on this new phase after its acquisition by SurePoint, Laura and Phil delve into how PROWESS brings unprecedented capabilities to legal teams by centralizing data, enhancing decision-making, and simplifying the selection process of legal talent. Laura explains that the PROWESS platform was born out of the need to streamline the outdated methods many in-house legal teams use to locate outside counsel. Rather than relying on personal contacts or spreadsheets, PROWESS leverages Leopard Solutions' extensive database of over 6,000 law firms to offer data-driven insights. The platform allows legal departments to search for attorneys and law firms by specialization, diversity metrics, and even billing structures, providing a comprehensive overview that helps corporate counsel make informed, strategic choices for their legal needs. One of the key features of PROWESS is its 360-degree firm report and ranking system, powered by Leopard Solutions' unique data-driven methodology. Phil explains how the platform’s rankings go beyond traditional metrics, focusing on firm growth, retention, and diversity within the attorney ranks. By incorporating continuous updates and client feedback, the ranking system serves as a real-time indicator of a firm’s standing in the market. Over time, the platform will enable in-house teams to provide feedback on engagements, further refining the rankings and enabling firms to showcase the quality of their work. The PROWESS platform also offers law firms an opportunity to proactively market their strengths. Law firms can contribute their own data to the platform, such as alternative fee arrangements and attorney billing rates, which helps them stand out in searches. Laura and Phil highlight how this “passive marketing” tool allows firms to differentiate themselves in a competitive market, as corporate clients can explore and assess options they may not have previously considered. Phil emphasizes that this feature is particularly valuable for smaller and mid-sized firms, allowing them to compete alongside larger firms by showcasing their specific expertise. In closing, Laura and Phil share their vision for the future of PROWESS. They envision it evolving into a more comprehensive marketplace, potentially allowing firms to bid on posted matters. Both are excited about the potential for increased transparency and efficiency in the legal industry as PROWESS matures, facilitating stronger relationships between law firms and in-house legal teams. With plans to integrate AI-driven features and client feedback mechanisms, Leopard Solutions is poised to shape the future of legal talent management and engagement.   Listen on mobile platforms:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@gebauerm⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@glambert⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.comMusic: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  

This week, we talk with a team of innovation leaders from the law firm Faegre Drinker. The guests included Shawn Swearingen, Chief Innovation Officer; David Gross, Design Lab co-founder; and Ruben Gonzalez, Design Lab Director. The discussion centered around the relaunch of Faegre Drinker's Legal Design Lab in Scottsdale, Arizona, exploring its origins, evolution, and impact on legal problem-solving. The Legal Design Lab's inception traces back eight or nine years when an associate at the firm, Helen Chacon, reconnected with her Stanford Law School friend Margaret Hagan, who was pioneering the concept of legal design. Intrigued by the idea of applying design thinking—a user-focused, empathetic approach to problem-solving long used in other industries—to the legal field, the firm embarked on a deep dive into the methodology. This included David (DJ) Gross auditing courses at Stanford's D-School and team members like Kate Rozavi designing courses on visual advocacy at the University of Minnesota Law School. The relaunch and relocation of the Design Lab to Scottsdale were influenced by several factors, notably the firm's merger that expanded its geographic footprint and the practical considerations brought about by the COVID-19 pandemic. The move allowed the firm to acquire a significantly larger and more cost-effective space. With input from architects, designers, and Margaret Hagan herself, the new lab was designed to be a flexible, creative environment featuring movable furniture and an industrial aesthetic, fostering collaboration and innovation. Throughout the podcast, the team shared concrete examples of how design thinking has been instrumental in solving complex legal challenges. One such example involved simplifying a profitability tool for lawyers by using a color-coded system akin to credit score reports, making it more accessible and actionable. Another highlighted the use of tennis balls to demystify crystallography during a jury trial, showcasing how visual aids and empathetic explanations can lead to successful outcomes. These instances underscore the lab's focus on user-centric solutions and visual advocacy to enhance understanding and efficiency in legal processes. The guests also discussed the challenges of integrating design thinking within the traditional legal framework, particularly in encouraging open-mindedness and collaborative participation among lawyers and clients. They emphasized the importance of a learning mindset, active listening, and the willingness to embrace creativity and risk-taking. To further disseminate these ideas, the team mentioned an eBook available on their website, aimed at introducing legal professionals to design thinking and visual advocacy concepts. Links: Faegre Drinker Design Lab video Faegre Drinker Picks Arizona for the Next-Gen Design Lab, American Lawyer E-book – Design Thinking and Visual Advocacy for Lawyers Two Point Oh! (FREE) Innovations in Visual Advocacy – Leading the way for design thinking in law, Harvard Law School Center on the Legal Profession.  Advancing Company Goals – Design sprints that unlock Innovation, Corporate Counsel. Listen on mobile platforms:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠   Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@gebauerm⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@glambert ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠   Transcript

In this episode of The Geek in Review, hosts Greg Lambert and Marlene Gebauer, along with special co-host Toby Brown of DV8 Legal Strategies, discuss the subscription-based legal services model with Mathew Kerbis, founder of Subscription Attorney, LLC, and Jack Shelton, co-founder of Aegis Space Law. The guests share their experiences and insights on adopting a subscription-based model as an alternative to the traditional billable hour. Mathew Kerbis explains that his inspiration for transitioning to a subscription and flat fee model stemmed from the realization that many attorneys, including himself, could not afford their own billable rates. He emphasizes the importance of automating processes and leveraging technology to manage workflow and client needs efficiently, especially when offering lower-priced services. Jack Shelton, whose firm focuses on the commercial space industry, shares his motivation for adopting a subscription model. He highlights the benefits of predictability and cost transparency for clients, particularly startups and small to medium-sized businesses. Shelton also discusses the development of in-house software to streamline complex analyses and improve accuracy and record-keeping for clients. The guests explore the challenges and opportunities of scaling and sustaining a subscription-based model. Kerbis notes that the model is highly sustainable due to the predictability of monthly recurring revenue, while Shelton emphasizes the importance of refining processes and forms to ensure efficiency and effectiveness. Looking to the future, Kerbis predicts that the rapid advancement of AI and the changing nature of legal practice will lead to a significant shift in the industry within the next five years. He suggests that if big law firms do not adapt, there may be a mass exodus of young associates seeking better work-life balance and the opportunity to start their own practices. Shelton, while agreeing with Kerbis to an extent, remains cautious about predicting a flood of lawyers leaving big law due to their risk-averse nature. Listen on mobile platforms:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Contact Us:  Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@gebauerm⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@glambert⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.comMusic: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Transcript

Few people understand the intersection of legal practice, data analytics, and diversity like Catherine Krow, Managing Director of Diversity and Impact Analytics at BigHand. In this episode of The Geek in Review, hosts Greg Lambert and Marlene Gebauer sit down with Krow to trace her journey from a high-powered trial lawyer to an influential legal tech leader. After seventeen years at firms like Orrick and Simpson Thacher, Krow’s turning point came when a client challenged her team’s billing after a major courtroom victory—a moment that sparked her mission to fix what she calls the “business of law.”That single moment led to the creation of Digitory Legal, a company designed to give law firms the data and transparency they desperately needed but didn’t yet value. Krow describes how her framework—plan, measure, refine—became the basis for improving cost predictability and strengthening client trust. When BigHand acquired Digitory Legal in 2022, Krow’s vision found a larger stage. Now, her “data refinery” powers better pricing, resource allocation, and even equity within firms. As she explains, clean data doesn’t only improve profitability, it reveals hidden inequities in work allocation and helps firms retain their most promising talent.Krow also digs into one of her favorite topics: “data debt.” Law firms are drowning in data but starved for information. She explains how poor data hygiene—like inconsistent time codes and messy narratives—has left firms unable to use their most valuable resource. BigHand’s impact analytics tools attack this problem head-on, transforming raw billing data into usable intelligence that drives decision-making across finance, staffing, and diversity efforts. And while the technology is powerful, Krow is clear that solving data debt is as much a cultural challenge as it is a technical one.Another major theme is the evolving role of business professionals within law firms. Krow argues that lawyers’ traditional discomfort with financial forecasting and project management is holding firms back. Her solution? Combine legal expertise with the commercial acumen of allied professionals. Together, they can meet client demands for budgets, accountability, and measurable value—especially as AI begins to reshape how legal services are delivered and priced.The episode closes with Krow’s broader reflection on the next decade of legal innovation. She warns that the biggest shift ahead isn’t about AI or analytics—it’s about mindset. Firms that embrace data-driven decision-making now will define the future of law; those that don’t will be left behind. Through her work at BigHand, Krow is helping to ensure that future is both more efficient and more equitable.Links:Impact Analytics Software | BigHandLaw Firms: Nail Pricing at the Buying Moment to Win Work and Safeguard Your MarginsThe Million Dollar Problem Law Firms Can No Longer IgnoreBigHand 2025 Annual Legal Pricing and Budgeting Trends AnalysisNavigating The Million Dollar Problem: Resource Management for Profitability, Client and Talent RetentionListen on mobile platforms:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[Special Thanks to ⁠Legal Technology Hub⁠ for their sponsoring this episode.] ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.comMusic: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Transcript:

This week we are joined by Anusia Gillespie, Enterprise Lead at vLex and debut novelist, as she shares her unique vantage point on the intersection of legal technology and the human side of law. Anusia traces her journey from commercial real estate finance attorney to global innovation leader, with roles at Harvard, UnitedLex, and Eversheds Sutherland, all driven by a mission to help lawyers by rethinking the systems they work in. Along the way she discovered that business-of-law blind spots, like a shocking embezzlement incident early in her career, revealed deeper structural issues that inspired her focus on system change.Anusia describes how legal tech adoption often falters when lawyers’ reactions—especially negative ones—are misunderstood. Far from being a setback, she sees strong reactions as opportunities to engage skeptics and convert them into champions. She shares a vivid example from her current work at vLex, where an initially frustrated lateral partner became one of the firm’s most enthusiastic adopters after receiving attentive support and seeing immediate client impact. The conversation pivots to Anusia’s new novel Soul Toll, which blends contemporary and fantasy storytelling to examine the personal cost of high-performance legal culture. The book’s central metaphor, the “soul toll,” measures the tradeoff between meaningful work and draining obligations. Through her protagonist Ember, a high-achieving lawyer on a seemingly predestined path, Anusia explores how professional ambition can be engineered and how easy it is to let subtle daily tolls overwhelm the soul. Her goal is to give lawyers and other readers a practical framework for assessing that balance in their own lives.As AI reshapes legal work, Anusia argues that lawyers need both the courage and the space to “fight for their light,” a phrase she uses as both a personal mantra and a rallying call in the novel. She emphasizes that the industry’s relentless pace will not slow down on its own, so lawyers and firm leaders must deliberately set boundaries and create pauses to prevent burnout. The discussion also explores how technology can relieve drudgery while prompting a new definition of professional competence that values human insight as much as efficiency.Anusia closes with a challenge to law firm leaders: confront the mindsets shaped by the billable hour and empower lawyers to think beyond six-minute increments. From her perspective, real change begins in how lawyers structure their time and measure success. Whether she is leading enterprise strategy at vLex or writing visionary fiction, Anusia keeps a single purpose in view—helping lawyers build healthier, more sustainable careers. Listeners can find Soul Toll on Amazon and connect with Anusia on LinkedIn to continue the conversation.Order Soul Toll today on AmazonListen on mobile platforms:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[Special Thanks to ⁠Legal Technology Hub⁠ for their sponsoring this episode.] ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.comMusic: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Transcript:

Daniel Lewis joins us this week to trace a path from Ravel Law to LexisNexis to LegalOn, with a throughline of data-driven thinking and practical outcomes for lawyers. Stanford roots shaped early work on judicial analytics, then a front-row view inside a global publisher broadened focus to content, guidance, and the daily reality of in-house teams. That experience pointed straight at contract review as a top pain for corporate counsel, which led to LegalOn’s product mission and global push.Data access still shapes progress. Case law digitization advanced through projects like Harvard’s archive, yet comprehensive coverage, secondary sources, and news remain guarded by incumbents. Daniel explains why large datasets give scale, why startups face steep hurdles, and why thoughtful product scope matters. The lesson, build where data, workflow, and user value intersect.LegalOn’s hybrid approach blends large models with attorney-built playbooks, practice notes, and suggested clause language. Consistency matters more than clever one-offs, so reviews align to standards, not model whimsy. Daniel shares a memorable demo from a rival where a phantom “California Code section 17” alert appeared, a cautionary tale that underscores the need for guardrails, verification, and explainability.Conversation turns to multi-step agents and matter management. Picture an intake email from sales, missing key fields. An agent requests what is needed, opens a matter, applies a tailored playbook, highlights non-negotiables and fallbacks, then keeps stakeholders informed as work progresses. LegalOn also converts existing playbooks and prior redlines into AI-ready guidance, reducing setup chores while preserving organizational risk preferences.Finally, Daniel outlines new muscles for legal teams. Daily AI usage shifts time from line-by-line edits to judgment, negotiation strategy, and process leadership. Tech fluency, business orientation, and change leadership rise in importance, along with a steady diet of outside-legal analysis from voices like Ben Thompson and Benedict Evans. The message, free lawyers from sludge, raise the ceiling on strategic work, and build for long-term improvement across the legal function.Listen on mobile platforms:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[Special Thanks to ⁠Legal Technology Hub⁠ for their sponsoring this episode.] ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.comMusic: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Transcript:

This week, we talk with Gabe Pereyra, President and co-founder at Harvey, about his path from DeepMind and Google Brain to launching Harvey with Winston Weinberg; how a roommate’s real-world legal workflows met early GPT-4 access and OpenAI backing; why legal emerged as the right domain for large models; and how personal ties to the profession plus a desire to tackle big societal problems shaped a mission to apply advanced AI where language and law intersect.Gabe’s core thesis lands hard, “the models are the product.” Rather than narrow tools for single tasks, Harvey opted for a broad assistant approach. Lawyers live in text and email, so dialog becomes the control surface, an “AI associate” supporting partners and teams. Early demos showed useful output across many tasks, which reinforced a generalist design, then productized connections into Outlook and Word, plus a no-code Workflow Builder.Go-to-market strategy flipped the usual script. Instead of starting small, Harvey partnered early with Allen & Overy and leaders like David Wakeling. Large firms supplied layered review, which reduced risk from model errors and increased learning velocity. From there the build list grew, security and data privacy, dedicated capacity, links to firm systems, case law, DMS, data rooms, and eDiscovery. A matter workspace sits at the center. Adoption rises with surface area, with daily activity approaching seventy percent where four or more product surfaces see regular use. ROI work now includes analysis of write-offs and specialized workflows co-built with firms and clients, for example Orrick, A&O, and PwC.Talent, training, and experience value come next. Firms worry about job paths, and Gabe does not duck that concern. Models handle complex work, which raises anxiety, yet also shortens learning curves. Harvey collaborates on curricula using past deals, plus partnerships with law schools. Return on experience shows up in recruiting, PwC reports stronger appeal among early-career talent, and quality-of-life gains matter. On litigation use cases, chronology builders require firm expertise and guardrails, with evaluation methods that mirror how senior associates review junior output. Frequent use builds a mental model for where errors tend to appear.Partnerships round out the strategy. Research content from LexisNexis and Wolters Kluwer, work product in iManage and NetDocuments, CLM workflows via Ironclad, with plans for data rooms, eDiscovery, and billing. Vision extends to a complete matter management service, emails, documents, prior work, evaluation, billing links, and strict ethical walls, all organized by client-matter. Global requirements drive multi-region storage and controls, including Australia’s residency rules. The forward look centers on differentiation through customization, firms encode expertise into models, workflows, and agents, then deliver outcomes faster and at software margins. “The value sits in your people,” Gabe says, and firms that convert know-how into systems will lead the pack.Listen on mobile platforms:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[Special Thanks to ⁠Legal Technology Hub⁠ for their sponsoring this episode.] ⁠⁠⁠Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.comMusic: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Transcript

This week we sit down with Suzanne Konstance, Vice-President and General Manager for Legal and Regulatory US at Wolters Kluwer. She outlines how the company supports professionals in highly regulated fields with software and authoritative content. Operations span multiple countries with a deliberately local approach, where teams design solutions for each market. Listeners get a clear view of scope, from enterprise legal management to recent additions such as Brightflag, alongside deep subject expertise.Konstance explains a core focus on regulatory compliance across securities, tax, IP, and employment. The aim is simple, help clients stay out of court. Continuous change drives editorial work, with authors and editors tracking shifts, executive orders, and practical effects. Provenance, version history, and context matter, supported by structured meta tagging which helps search and AI retrieve the right source every time.In a segment on trust, the conversation moves to standards for accuracy and auditability. Clients tell Wolters Kluwer quality outranks speed for research, so the team emphasizes authoritative sources and transparent sourcing. Konstance walks through a recent non-exclusive content license with Harvey for primary law from US and German collections, part of a broader collaboration strategy which also includes VitalLaw AI and new cross-border features. The goal is a reliable workflow where answers cite sources, show currency, and fit real practice.Real user labs reinforce these priorities. At AALL, librarians worked hands-on in a sandbox session with no guided prompts, pushing tools to limits and asking tough questions. One theme dominated, transparency, with live citations and source trails visible during use. Editors remain in the loop to curate likely questions, collect feedback, and refine outputs, while openness about progress helps teams separate market sizzle from dependable results.Looking ahead, Konstance expects roles to shift toward managing agents and setting clear instructions, similar to supervising a room full of interns, with strong expertise still required for oversight. Teams will need to train newcomers on fundamentals, auditing, and controls, so technology serves professionals, not the reverse. She also shares sources she follows, industry conversations with customers, conferences, LinkedIn, X, plus guidance from a long-standing internal Center of Excellence for AI. For more on Wolters Kluwer initiatives, listeners can visit wolterskluwer.com and explore the Legal and Regulatory section along with the AI hub.Also, check out Jerry David DeCicca and his new album, Cardiac Country.Links:Wolters Kluwer Legal & Regulatory U.S. page Wolters Kluwer's AI centerThe press release announcing the content licensing agreement with HarveyVitalLawListen on mobile platforms:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[Special Thanks to ⁠Legal Technology Hub⁠ for their sponsoring this episode.] Blue Sky: ⁠⁠@geeklawblog.com⁠⁠ ⁠⁠@marlgeb⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.comMusic: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Transcript:

This week we are joined by Patrick DiDomenico and Kevin Klein, two longtime builders of knowledge programs and legal tech gatherings. They walk through the evolution of KM&I for Legal, now entering year three, and the debut of its co-located counterpart, Legal Tech Connect. Both events run in New York on October 22 and 23, with a single community, two distinct agendas, and one big goal, stronger conversations across buyers, builders, and backers of legal tech.Patrick traces the roots, from the ARK KM era to the launch of KM\&I, then to twisting Kevin’s arm to join as a producer. A larger home opened the door to ambitious programming, Ease Hospitality at 3rd and 40th near Grand Central. Think bright rooms, live plants, strong AV, plenty of seating, and an adjacent tenant lounge with coffee, terrace, and breakout nooks. Lessons from last year show up in smart touches, an overflow room streaming the main stage for those who need to handle calls or email without missing core content, longer breaks for real conversations, and, yes, food worthy of repeat trips.Format matters here. KM&I holds firm on peer-to-peer sessions led by law firm professionals. Providers participate through tight five-minute spotlights between talks, plus optional demo rooms during generous coffee breaks and lunch. Legal Tech Connect flips the lens, product stories on stage, founder journeys, market forces, and regulatory themes. A crossover ticket lets attendees roam freely between both programs. Breakouts return by popular demand, a C-suite roundtable, KM 101 for newcomers, a track for KM attorneys and PSLs, and a managers and directors forum that grew from attendee feedback.Themes thread across both days. ROI from AI and KM tools appears throughout, from data strategy as a differentiator to co-development case studies. Expect a lively take on the rise of the legal engineer, with skills for scaling tools and driving adoption, plus a frank discussion about where these roles sit inside firms. Professor Michele DiStefano opens with client centricity, drawing on her research and book, with every attendee receiving a copy. She then moderates a session at Legal Tech Connect on how legal tech companies sell to law firms, bridging provider goals with buyer needs. Another panel stages the AI conversation among a partner, pricing director, client, and innovation lead, a timely look at value, billing, and collaboration.The bigger story is community. Patrick and Kevin highlight the peer network that forms in hallways and over coffee, mentors found by chance, and ideas that travel home in workable form. Legal Tech Connect brings investors and founders into the mix, which raises the quality of dialogue on funding, product focus, and adoption. Looking ahead, they predict fewer conferences, higher quality bars, and a shift toward substance over appearance. Listeners who want more details, including registration, should visit kmniforlegal.com and legaltechconnect.com. The two events sit side by side in October, and the goal is simple, leave with practical ideas, new contacts, and a clearer view of where legal innovation heads next. Listen on mobile platforms:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[Special Thanks to ⁠Legal Technology Hub⁠ for their sponsoring this episode.] Blue Sky: ⁠⁠@geeklawblog.com⁠⁠ ⁠⁠@marlgeb⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.comMusic: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Transcript:

This week we are joined by Mirat Dave and Danish Butt of Swiftwater & Co. as they step into the studio to make a simple claim, investigations and legal operations should serve the business, not slow the business. Mirat traces a path across law, technology, and global risk, then explains why a team blending strategy with implementation drew him to Swiftwater. Danish shares a wry origin story from early e-discovery days and outlines Swiftwater’s north star, the seven C’s, connecting, caring, collaboration, creating, curiosity, courage, and confidence. The tone stays pragmatic, no hype, and a few laughs land along the way.Global scope often triggers the “Germany is different” objection. Mirat acknowledges regional nuances, then reframes the discussion, most of the process is common across borders. The move that matters is standardization plus smart technology, including AI, to shift from linear headcount answers to scalable capacity. The payoff is speed, consistency, and lower risk. The team urges leaders to act like business owners, align processes to growth, margin, assets, and purpose, and resist the reflex to hire without redesigning the work.Budget hurdles come next. Leaders struggle to win funds for process change or platforms, while headcount requests sail through. The fix is storytelling backed by math, present a structured plan, expected savings, and a clear ROI in the language a CFO or GC uses daily. Danish widens the lens on metrics, many teams still track counts and cycle times, while value measures like revenue protected or reputation preserved sit at the bottom of the list. The guidance is to flip that order, tie decisions to value, and approach AI as a set of pointed use cases with measurable outcomes, not a monolith.Legal ops gets a moment in the spotlight as the quiet power. Danish reminds listeners that service functions exist to help the organization win, recognition matters, yet trust erodes when tools take center stage over results. Mirat presses the enablement mindset with a memorable image, legal, risk, and investigations are the pit crew, the business is the driver. Faster pits win races. He shares examples, a government contractor lifted renewal success by turning compliance visibility into proactive reminders and playbooks. In investigations, trend analysis by region, level, and timing surfaces fixes that reduce incoming allegations, lighten workloads, and raise quality.The crystal ball stays practical. Danish advises teams to treat AI as a working style backed by a two-year plan, prepare data, pick targets, and avoid both freeze and frenzy. Mirat expects investigation platforms to evolve from reporting systems into work systems, triage, plan creation, interview guidance, and repeatable playbooks that lift speed and consistency.Listen on mobile platforms:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[Special Thanks to ⁠Legal Technology Hub⁠ for their sponsoring this episode.] Blue Sky: ⁠⁠@geeklawblog.com⁠⁠ ⁠⁠@marlgeb⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.comMusic: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Transcript:

This week, we welcome back Kara Peterson and Rich DiBona of Descrybe to talk about the company’s rapid growth and its expanding role in legal research. Since their last appearance, Descrybe has not only built out new tools but also entered academia by joining the curriculum of more than 350 universities around the world. Kara reflects on her earlier career in legal education and how this new partnership feels like coming full circle. Together, she and Rich share how Descrybe is positioning itself to fill the gap left by other providers while keeping affordability and accessibility at the core of their mission.A major highlight of the discussion is Descrybe’s unique approach to legal citators. Unlike traditional tools that often provide a blunt “treatment” of a case, Descrybe’s citator allows issue-level analysis and even introduces a “backwards citator.” This means researchers can see not only how later courts interpreted a case but also how the judges who wrote the opinion cited and treated earlier authorities. Rich explains the technical challenges involved in training their system on 30 million citations, while Kara describes how these innovations give researchers new storytelling and analytical power when building arguments.The conversation also dives into the Legal Research Toolkit, Descrybe’s paid tier that offers a collection of tools designed for professionals who need more advanced case law analysis. While the company continues to provide free access to its core research platform, the toolkit adds features such as issue explorers and advanced citator functions. Kara emphasizes the company’s deliberately simple pricing model, which prioritizes trust and accessibility. At just $10 a month for non-commercial use and $20 for commercial users, the service is priced more like everyday software than the traditional high-cost legal research platforms.The discussion moves into broader industry trends, including the wave of acquisitions by major players like Thomson Reuters and Clio. Kara and Rich note that while consolidation is reshaping the market, it also leaves space for new entrants to innovate. With data becoming the most valuable commodity in legal tech, Descrybe is building curated and clean datasets across statutes, regulations, state constitutions, and even attorney general opinions. Both guests highlight the importance of accuracy, data hygiene, and minimizing hallucinations, explaining how their closed-system approach helps ensure that results remain grounded in actual legal documents rather than speculative AI outputs.Finally, the episode touches on ethics, recognition, and the future. Descrybe recently won the Anthem Award for Ethical AI, a nod to its safeguards against hallucinations and commitment to transparent data practices. At ILTACon, the team found themselves impressing not only potential clients but also leaders from larger companies who were curious about how such a lean startup was able to achieve so much. Looking ahead, Kara predicts the pace of change in legal technology will only accelerate, challenging law firms to keep up, while Rich warns of the commoditization of AI capabilities and stresses the importance of staying ahead of the curve. Together, they bring both humor and insight, reminding listeners that the legal research market is shifting quickly and that affordability, accuracy, and ethics will shape its next chapter.Listen on mobile platforms:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[Special Thanks to ⁠Legal Technology Hub⁠ for their sponsoring this episode.] Blue Sky: ⁠⁠@geeklawblog.com⁠⁠ ⁠⁠@marlgeb⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.comMusic: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 

In this episode of The Geek in Review, we welcome back Pablo Arredondo, VP of CoCounsel at Thomson Reuters, along with Joel Hron, the company’s CTO. The conversation centers on the recent release of ChatGPT-5 and the rise of “reasoning models” that go beyond traditional language models’ limitations. Pablo reflects on his years of tracking neural net progress in the legal field, from escaping “keyword prison” to the current ability of AI to handle complex, multi-step legal reasoning. He describes scenarios where entire litigation records could be processed to map out strategies for summary judgment motions, calling it a transformative step toward what he sees as “celestial legal products.”Joel brings an engineering perspective, comparing the legal sector’s AI trajectory to the rapid advancements in AI developer tools. He notes that these tools have historically amplified the skills of top performers rather than leveling the playing field. Applied to law, he believes AI will free lawyers from rote work and allow them to focus on higher-value decisions and strategy. The discussion shifts to Deep Research, Thomson Reuters’ latest enhancement for CoCounsel, which leverages reasoning models in combination with domain-specific tools like KeyCite to follow “breadcrumb trails” through case law with greater accuracy and transparency.The trio explores the growing importance of transparency and verification in AI-driven research. Joel explains how Deep Research provides real-time visibility into an AI’s reasoning path, highlights potentially hallucinated citations, and integrates verification tools to cross-check references against authoritative databases. Pablo adds historical and philosophical perspective, likening hallucinations to a tiger “going tiger,” stressing that while the risk cannot be eliminated, the technology already catches a significant number of human errors. Both agree that AI tools must be accompanied by human oversight and well-designed workflows to build trust in their output.Looking to the future, Joel predicts that the adoption of AI agents will reshape organizational talent strategies, elevating the importance of those who excel at complex decision-making. Pablo proposes “ambient AI” as the next frontier—intelligent systems that unobtrusively monitor legal work, flagging potential issues instantly, much like a spellchecker. Both caution that certain legal tasks, especially in judicial opinion drafting, warrant careful consideration before fully integrating AI. The episode closes with practical insights on staying current, from following AI researchers on social platforms to reading technical blogs and academic papers, underscoring the need for informed engagement in this rapidly evolving space.Listen on mobile platforms:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[Special Thanks to ⁠Legal Technology Hub⁠ for their sponsoring this episode.] Blue Sky: ⁠⁠@geeklawblog.com⁠⁠ ⁠⁠@marlgeb⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.comMusic: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Academic Papers:Weekly research for trends.scholar.google.com,ssrn.com,arxiv.orgFrançois Chollet: Balanced AI insights. x.com/fcholletfchollet.comJason Wei (OpenAI): Reinforcement learning updates. x.com/jason_d_weopenai.com/blogGeoffrey Hinton: AI research insights.x.com/geoffreyhintonRichard Sutton: Reinforcement learning and philosophical takes.incompleteideas.netReinforcement Learning: An Introduction (Book):http://incompleteideas.net/book/RLbook2020.pdfSeminal work by Turing Award winner.University of Alberta Lab: https://rlai-lab.github.ioCurrent research on scalable AI methods.Blue Sky: ⁠⁠@geeklawblog.com⁠⁠ ⁠⁠@marlgeb⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.comMusic: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Transcript

This week, we welcome back Tom Martin, CEO of LawDroid, to discuss his widely read “AI Law Professor” column for Thomson Reuters and his five-level roadmap for legal AI. Martin explains that the framework was inspired by a leaked OpenAI memo and aims to give legal professionals a clearer picture of AI’s trajectory. The five levels range from basic chatbots to fully AI-run organizations, with intermediate stages such as reasoners, agents, and innovators. According to Martin, while we are still in the early stages, the release of GPT-5 and its reasoning capabilities has accelerated progress toward higher levels, especially in the development of autonomous agents.The conversation turns to the implications of GPT-5’s hybrid reasoning model, which combines inference with step-by-step reasoning to deliver more relevant answers. Martin sees this as a significant shift for the legal industry, moving beyond single-response chatbots toward sustained, goal-oriented AI. He predicts that while the technology for fully autonomous legal agents could be available within a year, widespread adoption in law firms and corporations will take closer to three years. However, with these advancements come ethical concerns. Martin outlines four principles for responsible AI agents: transparency, autonomy, reliability, and visibility, cautioning that AI’s knowledge is always bounded and potentially incomplete.Reflecting on the legal industry’s pace of change since their last discussion, Martin notes that while some firms are sprinting to adopt AI, others may already be too late to catch up. He warns that professional services organizations must actively integrate AI to remain competitive. The discussion explores the potential for tech giants or AI companies to acquire major legal information providers, and Martin argues that the future lies in blending software, consulting, and education into a unified service model. This integrated approach, he believes, will be necessary for survival in a market where AI is capable of generating solutions without traditional software development cycles.Beyond the legal tech roadmap, Martin shares insights from his teaching at Suffolk University Law School and his observations from producing the “Last Week in Legal AI” news series. He sees both opportunities and risks for the next generation of lawyers, particularly in acting as translators between AI systems and legal practice. The discussion touches on generational attitudes toward AI, with younger users showing both skepticism and heavy reliance on AI for personal and professional support. Martin also addresses societal concerns, from AI in mental health applications to job displacement, and stresses the importance of curating AI outputs with human judgment.The episode wraps with Martin’s update on the American Legal Technology Awards, set for October 15 at Suffolk University Law School in Boston, which he describes as “the Oscars of legal tech.” When asked about the biggest challenge for the next few years, Martin points to the uncertainty of where professionals will fit in a rapidly shifting world. He envisions a possible new model that combines service, education, and software to deliver legal help at scale, but stresses that no one knows exactly how the future will unfold. His hope is that the AI-driven abundance ahead will be shared broadly, without excluding people from its benefits.Links:Keep up with Tom's podcast and latest thoughts on the law and innovation at: lawdroidmanifesto.comNab some tickets to this year's Oscars of Legal Innovation at: americanlegaltechnology.comListen on mobile platforms:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[Special Thanks to ⁠Legal Technology Hub⁠ for their sponsoring this episode.] Blue Sky: ⁠⁠@geeklawblog.com⁠⁠ ⁠⁠@marlgeb⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.comMusic: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

This week, we welcome longtime friend and legal tech veteran Ken Crutchfield, founder of Spring Forward Consulting. Ken brings his extensive experience from major legal information vendors like Thomson Reuters, Bloomberg, and Wolters Kluwer into a timely and candid discussion about the current phase of artificial intelligence in the legal industry. Comparing today’s generative AI surge to the American Industrial Revolution, Ken describes this moment as the “Wild West” era—full of promise, hype, overinvestment, and, critically, few rules.Drawing historical parallels to railroads, oil barons, and steel magnates, Ken illustrates how unchecked growth and technological innovation can outpace regulation until market forces or policy catch up. He notes the resurgence of large-scale infrastructure investment, now not in steel or steam, but in compute power and data centers. Just as J.P. Morgan helped stabilize chaotic markets in the 19th century, Ken suggests today's AI frontier needs a similar recalibration, and possibly new rules of engagement.The conversation shifts toward the practical realities of legal tech adoption. Ken emphasizes that law firms' expectations of perfection often collide with startups’ resource limitations. Vendors need to rethink how they engage with firms by building credibility, focusing on integration, and delivering actual use-case wins. Firms, in turn, must move beyond the billable hour mindset and consider new metrics like Return on Experience. Adoption is no longer optional, it’s strategic, competitive, and increasingly client-driven.Ken also unpacks the looming implications of content rights and data ownership in the age of AI. If firms aren’t investing in data hygiene now, they risk being left behind when more sophisticated AI tools demand clean, structured, and secure datasets. AI isn’t just about automating workflows, it’s about being ready to plug into a future where interoperability, metadata, and permissions will dictate who thrives and who gets leapfrogged.Finally, Ken calls for scenario planning: not just reacting to what OpenAI or Anthropic might do next, but anticipating it. Firms and vendors alike should double down on what works, define success before launching new projects, and invest in meaningful adoption strategies. In a world moving this fast, it’s no longer about who gets there first, it’s about who gets there with a plan.Listen on mobile platforms:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[Special Thanks to ⁠Legal Technology Hub⁠ for their sponsoring this episode.] Blue Sky: ⁠⁠@geeklawblog.com⁠⁠ ⁠⁠@marlgeb⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.comMusic: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Transcript

This week, we welcome Christian Geyer, founder and CEO of ACTFORE, for a deep dive into the world of automated breach response. From his early days in military intelligence to founding a disruptive forensics firm, Christian shares how his diverse experiences shaped a data‑driven approach to tackling one of corporate America’s thorniest problems: managing the chaos of a data breach. Along the way we hear about secret clearances, cabinet making, and the humble beginnings of a startup launched from a literal closet.Christian’s journey is anything but ordinary. Recruited straight into an intelligence agency at nineteen, he cut his teeth on top‑secret work before supporting Navy research labs with data dashboards that informed mission‑critical funding decisions. When an injury sidelined him from field ops, he turned to carpentry, framing houses and crafting cabinets during the mid‑2000s flip boom. That hands‑on trade remains Christian’s reminder that some skills can’t be automated, even as he builds AI to do the heavy lifting elsewhere.He carried that disruptive spirit into Crypsis Group, undercutting the incident response market with half‑price forensics and skyrocketing revenue from zero to $20 million in four years. COVID’s budget cuts then prompted a pivot: leveraging ActiveNav’s data‑discovery engine to automate breach notification. What began as a side project in a shared office closet evolved into ACTFORE, a company that in a single four‑and‑a‑half‑day engagement processed 3 million patient records across 2 000 endpoints, cementing its reputation for speed, accuracy, and onshore security.At the heart of ACTFORE’s offering is an automated extraction platform powered by “infant AI” tailored to each client. Rather than shipping data overseas for human review, Christian’s team uses software instances—deployed globally or on‑premise, to scan, fingerprint, and parse structured and unstructured files. Their Trace tool brings the automation into one‑click point‑and‑extract workflows, slashing keystrokes and crushing review timelines by weeks without sacrificing human‑in‑the‑loop oversight where it matters most.Looking ahead, Christian warns of a new insider threat: AI models trained on proprietary data that could be weaponized from within. While ACTFORE continues to focus on reactive breach response, Christian sees advisory and proactive scanning services on the horizon, particularly in regions with more robust data regulations. As breach frequency rises and AI proliferates, ACTFORE aims to stay ahead of the curve, turning its combination of automation, human expertise, and a closet‑born scrappiness into the next frontier of cybersecurity.  Blue Sky: ⁠⁠@geeklawblog.com⁠⁠ ⁠⁠@marlgeb⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.comMusic: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Transcript

This week, we sit down with Ilona Logvinova, Director of Practice Innovation at Cleary Gottlieb, and Max Junestrand, CEO and Founder of Legora, for a deep dive into how their partnership is reshaping the legal landscape through AI-driven innovation. The conversation kicks off with the origin story behind Cleary’s strategic alliance with Legora, a legal tech platform focused on collaborative, AI-first workflows. The two share how this relationship, built on a year-long pilot and mutual alignment in vision, is now delivering real-world benefits across Cleary’s legal teams.Max walks listeners through the evolution of Legora’s product suite, which includes a general-purpose assistant, tabular contract review, and a Microsoft Word plugin, all wrapped into a seamless collaborative workspace. Ilona elaborates on Cleary’s multi-pronged AI strategy, emphasizing a hybrid approach that integrates both in-house tools (such as Springbok AI) and external partnerships like Legora. This merger of internal and external capabilities reflects a broader shift in legal innovation—from static solutions to agile, embedded systems designed for continuous learning and adaptation.One major theme explored is the shift in legal AI from isolated tools to interoperable ecosystems. Max stresses the importance of collaboration and avoiding silos, pointing to a future where legal tech isn’t just smarter, but also more connected. Ilona reinforces this by describing Cleary’s vision of AI as a co-worker, not a replacement, likening AI oversight to supervising junior associates. The goal, they argue, isn’t to eliminate human involvement, but to elevate it—using AI to take over repetitive tasks while freeing lawyers to focus on high-value strategy and creativity.The episode also covers practical aspects of deployment and adoption, offering insight into why Cleary's rollout has been so successful. Ilona credits the intuitive design and high-value use cases as key drivers of firmwide engagement. From Zoom calls with 1,000 attendees to chatbots that feel more like using Google than enterprise software, Cleary’s AI integration strategy is centered on simplicity, accessibility, and a relentless focus on user experience. The team’s use of analytics and continuous feedback loops further ensures the platform evolves to meet real-world needs.In the crystal ball finale, Max and Ilona speculate on what’s next. Max anticipates a dramatic consolidation in user experience across legal tech platforms, driven by agents and large language models that enable seamless workflows. Ilona envisions a future shaped by AI-native infrastructure and even screenless computing environments, where collaboration is immersive and spatial rather than tethered to screens. Their shared message is clear: the future of legal work is collaborative, AI-enhanced, and closer than we think. Whether you're a tech-savvy partner or a cautious associate, this episode offers a compelling look at how forward-thinking firms are already building the legal practice of tomorrow.Listen on mobile platforms:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[Special Thanks to ⁠Legal Technology Hub⁠ for their sponsoring this episode.] Blue Sky: ⁠⁠@geeklawblog.com⁠⁠ ⁠⁠@marlgeb⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.comMusic: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Transcript

In this episode, we welcome Matthew Dickinson, CEO and founder of Vable, to discuss the rapidly changing landscape of legal information and current awareness. Matthew reflects on how, until recently, current awareness in law firms relied heavily on manual curation, Boolean searches, and email alerts—often resulting in information overload and a lack of personalization. With the advent of generative AI, expectations have shifted dramatically. Lawyers now want more than just a flood of articles; they expect relevant, actionable insights delivered seamlessly and intuitively, tailored to their specific needs and workflows.Matthew explains how Vable and similar platforms are moving beyond simply delivering news. The goal is to provide context-rich, actionable intelligence that integrates with other firm systems, such as CRM platforms. Instead of sending a list of articles about data breaches, for example, the new approach is to alert lawyers when a top client is affected, summarize the implications, and identify who else in the firm needs to know. This shift requires a blend of robust technology, thoughtful workflow design, and a deep understanding of the different roles within a law firm.A significant portion of the conversation centers on the ethical boundaries of using AI in legal information services. Matthew outlines four pillars for ethical current awareness: trust, transparency, accuracy, and inclusion. He emphasizes the importance of clear labeling when AI is used, maintaining high standards for accuracy (especially for client-facing content), and ensuring a diversity of sources to avoid echo chambers. Vable’s approach includes strong relationships with publishers, transparent rights management, and tools that allow human review and curation before information is distributed.Matthew discuss best practices for using news and current awareness to support practice development and client engagement. While many firms still rely on newsletters and headlines, there is a growing trend toward more personalized, branded, and interactive content—such as Vable Connect, which allows firms to deliver tailored digests to clients. Automation is on the rise, but the human element remains crucial: lawyers use curated content as a springboard for client conversations, and AI is seen as a tool to empower, not replace, professional judgment.As the episode wraps up, Matthew shares his perspective on the future of legal information services. He predicts that the next wave of innovation will bring even more personalization, prediction, and integration—potentially leading to “personalized current awareness bots” for every lawyer. However, he cautions that while AI can supercharge productivity, humans must remain in control, especially in high-stakes legal environments. The unique culture and high standards of law firms mean that technology providers must deeply understand their clients’ needs to build trust and deliver real value.Listen on mobile platforms:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[Special Thanks to ⁠Legal Technology Hub⁠ for their sponsoring this episode.] Blue Sky: ⁠⁠@geeklawblog.com⁠⁠ ⁠⁠@marlgeb⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.comMusic: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Transcript

In this week's episode of The Geek in Review, Greg Lambert flies solo while co-host Marlene Gebauer enjoys some well-deserved relaxation. Greg welcomes Trevor Quick, Strategic Business Development lead at Harvey.ai, to discuss one of the most talked-about companies in legal tech today. With a staggering $300 million Series E funding round and a $5 billion valuation, Harvey is rewriting the narrative of what legal AI can be, as well as who it is for. Trevor, a longtime listener turned guest, brings an insider’s view of the company’s evolution and its ambitions for reshaping the legal services ecosystem.Trevor provides behind-the-scenes insight into how Harvey has become such a magnet for both capital and attention. He attributes the rapid growth to the company’s structure—where legal expertise and AI engineering are in constant collaboration. From founder Winston Weinberg’s legal acumen to co-founder Gabe Pereyra’s technical leadership, Harvey’s DNA has always been rooted in practical use cases for lawyers. The company's commitment to building with, not just for, the legal community has led to the development of a GTM team composed of practicing attorneys who work directly with law firms and corporate legal departments to customize AI solutions that align with real workflows.One of the most talked-about moves is Harvey’s deepening partnership with LexisNexis. Trevor explains how integrating Lexis’s data directly into Harvey’s platform removes the friction lawyers face when juggling multiple research tools. With access to Shepard’s citations and native case law lookup, attorneys can now verify and trust the results Harvey generates—turning it from a generative assistant into a full-fledged research companion. This update not only boosts confidence but also meets the rigorous standards legal professionals demand, especially those skeptical of AI’s early stumbles.The conversation also touches on Harvey’s new functionalities like the Workflow Builder, Vault document review enhancements, and Deep Research Mode. Trevor likens these innovations to “agentic” workflows that let users build custom solutions with low or no code. Whether it's KM teams building tailored research processes, or attorneys streamlining diligence reviews, Harvey is giving legal professionals the ability to shape how AI works with them, not around them. Trevor emphasizes that Harvey’s success comes from its honesty, adaptability, and the trust it has earned by meeting lawyers where they are—not forcing them to change how they work overnight.In closing, Greg asks Trevor to gaze into the crystal ball, and while Trevor jokingly admits that predicting the future in AI is a fool’s errand, he offers a vision rooted in intuition, collaboration, and democratized access to justice. From expanding into tax, compliance, and marketing workflows, to becoming a central hub for legal and adjacent industries, Harvey is on a path to not only augment what lawyers do, but to enhance how they feel about the work itself. With world-class partnerships and a relentless pace of innovation, Trevor makes a compelling case that Harvey isn't just a tool—it might just be the toolbelt.Listen on mobile platforms:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[Special Thanks to ⁠Legal Technology Hub⁠ for their sponsoring this episode.] Blue Sky: ⁠⁠@geeklawblog.com⁠⁠ ⁠⁠@marlgeb⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.comMusic: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Transcript

In this episode of The Geek in Review, guest host Marcie Borgal Shunk of the Tilt Institute joins Marlene Gebauer for a thought-provoking discussion with Avaneesh Marwaha, CEO of Litera. As someone who led the company through both pre- and post-AI boom eras, Avaneesh offers an insider’s perspective on what it takes to guide a legal tech organization through profound technological and cultural shifts. He speaks candidly about why he returned to Litera, what has changed internally, and how AI is being integrated not just into products, but into the DNA of the company itself.Avaneesh shares how Litera transitioned from an acquisition-heavy growth strategy to one that prioritizes internal AI innovation. This shift required rethinking everything from leadership talent to product development cycles. He emphasizes that meaningful adoption of AI goes far beyond surface-level integrations, calling instead for a reinvention of workflows, organizational structure, and employee mindsets. Daily AI usage is expected at Litera, but not in a checkbox kind of way. Instead, teams are challenged to use AI tools to accelerate decision-making, increase efficiency, and share insights across departments.One of the more pressing challenges Avaneesh highlights is “adoption fatigue.” While excitement around generative AI brought in billions of investment dollars and an explosion of legal tech startups, the sheer volume of pilots and proof-of-concept tools is starting to wear thin with law firm users. To combat this, Avaneesh argues that AI needs to be native to workflows—integrated directly into Word, Outlook, and other familiar environments—so lawyers aren’t forced into unnatural digital pivots just to use new tools.The conversation also explores agentic workflows—AI-driven processes that take action based on inputs, like automatically triaging emails or assisting in business development. Avaneesh shares that Litera has several of these tools set to launch, all co-built with customers. But he’s cautious: if AI doesn’t return value within a six-minute lawyer mindset, the tools get dropped. It’s not about flash, it’s about results.Looking ahead, Avaneesh envisions a legal industry where AI removes the "busy work" and gives lawyers the space to tackle truly complex problems. Rather than displacing attorneys, AI will help them focus on higher-order thinking, better client service, and proactive problem-solving. But for that future to arrive, the industry needs to move past its fear of change, embrace a growth mindset, and be willing to reimagine what legal work looks like from the ground up.Listen on mobile platforms:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[Special Thanks to ⁠Legal Technology Hub⁠ for their sponsoring this episode.] Blue Sky: ⁠⁠@geeklawblog.com⁠⁠ ⁠⁠@marlgeb⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.comMusic: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Transcript