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What is really real? In this wide-ranging conversation, Dr Zachary Ardern (evolutionary biologist, Wellcome Sanger Institute), Dr Alex Carter (philosopher, University of Cambridge), and Dr Sam McKee (science historian, Manchester Metropolitan University) sit down to revisit one of the oldest debates in human thought — the relationship between science, religion, and ultimate reality.
This one will get you thinking and may even surprise you in their discussion about meaning, knowledge, and the limits of what science can tell us.
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In our inaugural episode of Premier Unbelievable: The Interview, host Luke Martin sits down with modern hymn writers Keith and Kristyn Getty—the duo, alongside Stuart Townend, behind the global hymn “In Christ Alone.”
From Belfast roots to life in Nashville, Luke explores their craft, calling, and why congregational singing forms the grammar of belief. The Gettys reflect on the partnership of poetry and melody, the tension between emotionalism and depth in worship, and the growing hunger among Gen Z for meaning, beauty and a faith that shapes real life. They also share details of their new hymnal project and preview their Christmas concerts in Glasgow, London and Belfast.
Whether you’re a pastor, musician, worship leader or thoughtful listener, this conversation offers practical insight and rich encouragement for shaping beautiful, theologically robust worship in the local church. Get Home For Christmas tickets here: https://tix.to/vRm4Ug
Getty Sing! Hymnal: https://amzn.to/4omSm1A
Timestamps00:00 – Introduction
01:25 – Who are Keith & Kristyn Getty?
05:10 – Why Congregational Singing Matters
09:20 – Writing Hymns: Poetry, Melody & Partnership
14:45 – Worship: Emotion vs Depth
19:30 – Gen Z’s Search for Meaning & Beauty
24:55 – The New Getty Hymnal Project
30:10 – A Global Movement of Hymn Singing
35:40 – Advice for Church Musicians & Worship Leaders
42:00 – Christmas Tour Preview (Glasgow / London / Belfast)
47:25 – Closing Thoughts
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Premier Unbelievable guest-hosted by Dr. Sam McKee heads to John Colet School in Wendover, UK for a lively debate on science, religion and reality with Oxford atomic & laser physicist Prof Paul Ewart (Christian; former Faraday Institute director, ex-president of Christians in Science) and UCL biophysics & imaging expert Prof Simon Walker-Samuel (trustee, Humanists UK). Together they explore whether science and faith conflict or complement each other. From fine-tuning and emergence to AI, digital twins in cancer care, consciousness and what it means to be human, our guests test big ideas with sharp student questions. Is “God of the gaps” a fair critique? Can love and morality be reduced to atoms—or do they point beyond materialism?
Today we’re dipping back into a Classic Unbelievable? / The Big Conversation episode: Bishop Robert Barron vs Alex O’Connor on the question, “Christianity or atheism — which best explains who we are?” Recorded when Alex was still a student at Oxford, this lively, good-humoured exchange set the tone for countless thoughtful dialogues to come. Since then, Alex’s Cosmic Skeptic platform has grown massively and he’s even appeared on an extremely popular Unbelievable? show with Ben Shapiro, reflecting how these conversations continue to reach new audiences. Revisit Barron’s Thomistic vision of God, Alex’s pushback on contingency and faith, and their probing discussion of suffering, meaning, and human flourishing. Whether you’re new to the show or re-listening, we hope you enjoy the show.
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Can Christianity save democracy? Vince Vitale hosts a frank, generous exchange between social critic Os Guinness and author Jonathan Rauch about faith’s civic foundations, liberalism, and power. This is one we’ve been looking forward to! Rauch, a scientific materialist, argues that democracy needs Christianity’s deepest teachings; Guinness locates America’s virtues in the Hebrew–Christian tradition.
Don’t miss the most moving moment: around the hour mark, Guinness turns to Rauch and apologises without caveat for the ways Christians have treated gay people like him. Rauch receives it with grace, and the room changes. It’s a rare, exemplary act of repentance that models the public virtue both men commend.
Is religion necessary for public virtue? What happens when politics replaces moral conviction? And how can Christians engage civically without being captured by partisan extremes? From the founding ideals of democracy to the spiritual crises of modern secularism, this discussion asks whether Christianity’s values of conscience, humility, and truth are exactly what our societies need most.
For Jonathan Rauch
Blue Sky: https://bsky.app/profile/jonrauch.bsky.social
Jonathan Rauch's Books
NEW Cross Purposes: https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300273540/cross-purposes/
and here: https://amzn.to/47laSQC
For Os Guinness:
https://osguinness.com/
Os Guinness' Books:
Guinness' America Agonistes: https://amzn.to/4hmnzzj
Our Civilizational Moment: https://amzn.to/4qlqHPV
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In this classic Unbelievable? Big Conversation, atheist broadcaster Matt Dillahunty (The Atheist Experience) and Christian evangelist Glen Scrivener (Speak Life) clash over the foundations of morality. Is secular humanism enough, or does Christianity uniquely ground human dignity? They test claims about wellbeing, the is–ought gap, intrinsic vs extrinsic religiosity, “cancel culture,” and whether society’s benefits from religion are about truth or simply community. Expect sparky exchanges on the Bible and slavery, sacrifice and the cross, disability ethics (e.g. prenatal screening), and whether objective moral values exist without God. Matt argues for taking the best ideas—sans “baggage” while Glen contends the Christian story birthed our modern concern for the weak and marginalised.
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In today's Unbelievable? school debate, Zachary Ardern, a christian biologist, and Alex Carter, an atheist scientist, face off on whether scientific progress has made belief in God obsolete.
Hosted by Andy Kind, the discussion dives into the biggest questions of all:
Can science explain everything, or does it point beyond itself?Is faith irrational in the age of reason?What counts as evidence for God?Are morality and meaning possible without a creator?From the fine-tuning of the universe to the limits of human understanding, Zach and Alex debate whether God remains the best explanation, or whether naturalism is more than enough to disprove the existence of a God. What do you think? Filmed in collaboration with Aylesbury Vale Youth For Christ
Dr Zachary Ardern is an Evolutionary Biologist at a research institute in Cambridge.
Dr Alex Carter is the Academic Director for Philosophy and Interdisciplinary Studies at the University of Cambridge, Institute of Continuing Education.
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Tom Holland and philosopher A.C. Grayling differ deliciously in this classic Big Conversation part of Premier's Unbelievable? Podcast. Where does the West’s moral compass really come from? Drawing on Holland’s bestselling Dominion and Grayling’s secular humanism, they spar over the roots of dignity, equality and rights. Was the cross a moral revolution that overturned Rome’s hierarchy reshaping attitudes to slavery, sex, and the status of victims? Or do our ethics flow chiefly from classical philosophy, the Renaissance and Enlightenment? Expect lively exchanges on Paul, Stoicism, preserving ancient texts, the abolition of slavery, and whether humanism is a “godless Protestantism”. A riveting clash of history and philosophy and what it means for faith, reason, science, law, culture and public life today and beyond.
For AC Grayling’s ‘The History of Philosophy’ https://www.amazon.co.uk/History-Philosophy-C-Grayling/dp/0241304539
For Tom Holland’s ‘Dominion’ https://www.amazon.com/Dominion-Christian-Revolution-Remade-World/dp/0465093507
A bestselling French engineer argues that modern cosmology points to a Creator — but a leading physicist says science explains it all without God. Unbelievable? podcast John Nelson hosts cosmologist Dr Niayesh Afshordi and entrepreneur-author and engineer Michel-Yves Bolloré for a lively clash on cosmic origins. Afshordi outlines ideas that our universe may have emerged from a black hole and surveys competing models of the Big Bang. Bolloré, co-author of God: The Science, The Evidence, argues that twentieth-century discoveries—from thermodynamics and entropy to expansion and fine-tuning—stack up as evidence for a Creator. They test “beginning versus eternity,” debate whether fine-tuning signals design or selection effects, and ask what constitutes prediction, falsifiability, and proof. Is the “God hypothesis” scientific, metaphysical, or both? Can science ever answer “why there is something rather than nothing”? Thoughtful, spirited, and friendly, this episode brings faith and physics into constructive dialogue.
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How did the universe come into being, and why are we part of it? Sir Roger Penrose (atheist-leaning Nobel laureate) and Christian philosopher William Lane Craig come together for this mind-stretching Big Conversation: “Did the universe begin and what is its origin and purpose in it?” Penrose outlines his three “mysteries” (physics, mind, mathematics) and his Conformal Cyclic Cosmology, while Craig argues that the beginning of the universe, the applicability of maths, morality and fine-tuning point to a divine mind. Expect respectful fireworks and first-rate clarity from two titans on this classic of Unbelievable? podcast. Since recording, Penrose received the 2020 Nobel Prize in Physics for work on black holes, reinvigorating interest in his cosmic ideas. Craig has continued to draw huge audiences, publishing In Quest of the Historical Adam (2021) and debating cosmology and God worldwide.
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In this special Unbelievable? debate, recorded live at Waddesdon High School, Andy Kind moderates a lively exchange between philosopher Dr Shaun Stevenson and Oxford doctoral candidate Nathan Elvidge on one of life’s biggest questions: Does God exist?
From the origins of religious belief to the grounding of morality, the two thinkers spar over whether right and wrong can be explained without God, the problem of evil, and whether concepts like “absolute morality” require a divine lawgiver. Along the way, they tackle Spinoza, slavery, free will, the Garden of Eden, and even whether “evil” itself is an illusion.
Engaging, challenging, and thought-provoking, this conversation brings philosophy into the classroom, offering students and listeners alike a window into one of humanity’s oldest debates.
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Two world-class cosmologists talk it out in a classic Unbelievable? podcast debate: What best explains the universe—God or naturalism? Christian astrophysicist Luke Barnes (Sydney Institute for Astronomy; co-author A Fortunate Universe) and atheist physicist Sean Carroll (Caltech; author The Big Picture) explore whether Big Bang cosmology hints at a beginning with purpose, or a brute fact within a naturalistic story. Expect poetic naturalism, the fine-tuning of physical constants, the role (and limits) of explanation in fundamental physics, and whether a multiverse offers a better account of a life-permitting cosmos. Is the universe’s mathematical elegance evidence for design, or simply how reality is? Would we expect a universe this vast if humans matter to God? Expect rigorous science, sharp philosophy, and respectful pushback as Barnes and Carroll test theism and naturalism against the full sweep of cosmic evidence.
For Sean Carroll: https://www.preposterousuniverse.com/
For Luke Barnes: https://afortunateuniverse.wordpress.com/about-the-authors/
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Few topics raise as many questions as hell. Is it eternal torment, final destruction, or something else entirely? In this episode of Premier Unbelievable?, Vince Vitale is joined by Australian apologist Dan Paterson (Questioning Christianity: Is There More to the Story?) and Catholic theologian Jordan Wood (The Whole Mystery of Christ). Together they explore whether the traditional doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment is biblically and theologically defensible, and why so many Christians today are reconsidering alternative views such as conditional immortality or annihilationism.
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In this second part of Unbelievable? Season 2’s The Big Conversation, recorded before a live London audience in partnership with the Templeton Religion Trust, we return to Christian theologian Prof. Alister McGrath (University of Oxford) and evolutionary biologist Brett Weinstein.
Having debated whether religion is a useful fiction or ultimate truth in Part One, McGrath and Weinstein now field questions from the audience. The Q&A covers wide-ranging issues: is humanity more than an “over-evolved animal”? Has evolutionary science stalled since Dawkins’ The Selfish Gene? Does Scripture remain relevant in addressing modern moral concerns? What are the evolutionary benefits of following Jesus? And is belief in God essential to the usefulness of religion?
A lively, respectful dialogue probing the deepest questions of science, faith, and human meaning.
Part 1: https://www.premier.plus/unbelievable/podcasts/episodes
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In this classic episode of Unbelievable? The Big Conversation, recorded before a live London audience in partnership with the Templeton Religion Trust, Christian theologian Prof. Alister McGrath (University of Oxford) and evolutionary biologist Brett Weinstein explore the provocative question: Is religion a useful fiction or ultimate truth?
Weinstein, well known for his work on evolutionary theory and public debates on culture, argues that religion may be literally false but metaphorically true—an adaptive survival mechanism. McGrath, drawing on his journey from atheism to Christian faith, contends that Christianity is not only beneficial but also true.
This is Part One of the discussion. Join us next time for Part Two, featuring audience Q&A with the speakers.
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The shocking death of Charlie Kirk has left a void in the public square. However you felt about his politics or style, he was a figure unafraid to step into hostile spaces, defend his Christian faith, and face opponents head-on. From the Oxford Union to U.S. campuses, Kirk embodied a willingness to disagree openly at a time when many retreat to echo chambers.
In this week's show Premier Unbelievable?'s Billy Hallowell is joined by Os Guinness and Krish Kandiah to reflect on Kirk’s legacy, the controversies, and the reckoning his loss demands. How do we preserve free speech without fear? How do we turn down the temperature in our debates? And can we recover the art of disagreeing agreeably in a polarised age? To keep bringing you conversations like this — with a wide range of voices and remarkable guests — why not consider supporting the production of more Unbelievable? podcasts //www.premierunbelievable.com/geolink/donate
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In this live edition of Unbelievable?, Andy Kind hosts a fascinating conversation on the nature of the soul and spiritual experience.
Philosopher Harry Amos, a former Christian turned humanist, challenges whether the soul exists at all, pointing to science, consciousness studies, and the limits of dualism. Meanwhile, Dr. Claire Gilbert, writer and ethicist, shares her profound personal journey through faith, ecology, and cancer, drawing inspiration from Julian of Norwich and the deep mysteries of spirit, love, and human worth.
From neuroscience and quantum mechanics to prayer, mortality, and whether dogs have souls (!), this discussion wrestles with some of the most profound questions humans can ask.
In this classic Big Conversation, mathematician and Christian thinker John Lennox
sits down with philosopher of science Michael Ruse before a live London audience to ask whether modern science points towards — or away from — God. They trace the roots of science in the Judeo-Christian worldview, debate “scientism,” and spar over miracles (from water into wine to the Resurrection), natural theology versus faith, and the “unreasonable effectiveness” of mathematics. The pair tackle evil and suffering — yes, even hemorrhoids — free will, Auschwitz, and whether hope requires revelation. Audience Q&A presses them on the Big Bang, objective morality, Calvinism, and what counts as . Expect sharp disagreement, surprising agreement, and plenty of wit as Lennox argues for evidence-based faith and Ruse defends a conservative, largely agnostic naturalism.
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In this second part of our Premier Unbelievable? schools debate with Aylesbury Youth or Christ, host Andy Kind is joined once again by philosophers Dr Amna Whiston (Oxford University) and Dr Alex Carter (Cambridge University) to explore the ethical dilemmas raised by artificial intelligence.
What happens when machines are asked to make moral decisions? Can AI ever be truly responsible - or feel pain? What are the risks of outsourcing human judgment to code? And is a "happy dystopia" ruled by AI just around the corner?
Together, they unpack issues like the trolley problem, privacy, intellectual property, moral intuition, and the dehumanising effects of the “race to the middle.” This thought-provoking conversation asks not just what AI can do, but what it might undo in human society.
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Illusionist and writer Derren Brown joins broadcaster and Anglican priest Rev. Richard Coles for a searching conversation on The Big Conversation stage of Unbelievable?. Both men tell strikingly different life stories: Brown, once a youthful Christian, gradually left faith behind as his fascination with the mind, psychology, and scepticism grew. Coles, meanwhile, rose to fame in the 1980s pop group The Communards before an unexpected conversion led him into Christian ministry.
In this dialogue they share candid reflections on happiness, suffering, transcendence and the role of stories in shaping our lives. Can Stoic philosophy provide enough meaning without belief in God? Does Christianity uniquely transform suffering into hope? And how do we face death in a culture that has lost its guiding narratives?
This classic edition invites listeners to weigh whether life’s deepest questions find their fullest answer with—or without—God.
For Derren Brown: http://derrenbrown.co.uk
For Richard Coles: http://www.richardcoles.com/





Islam, Judaism, and most Christians miss the point that Christ is the Logos, which is inadequately translated as the "Word". Anyone willing to investigate the meaning and concept of Logos incarnate will come to see Jesus as the one and only Lord and Saviour.
I found this somewhat boring. I don't know if it was the guests, the fact that it has a format for radio, the host, or a combination.
Absolutely awesome discussion. I must highlight David's statement: "I did not become celibate because I'm gay, but because Jesus is worthy". Wow!
bizarrely, it looks like this podcast has been hijacked by a short story podcast also called 'unbelievable'
There is nothing more annoying than listening to an "atheist"... they all come across as petulant children with daddy issues.
What a diverse panel! /s This show has seriously lost the original appeal of having opposing viewpoints. Of course - the Bible condones slavery. And, the morality of the Bible is subjective and relative. Twist all the pretzels you want.
Great... Christians can even agree on hell, and atheists are constantly threatened with it. It never stops amazing me how believers claim to have to the truth about a god, life, the universe, afterlife, and so on - but they don't even agree within themselves. It reminds me of being a Christian in the 90s when there were Christian bookstores all around. There would only be a couple rows of Bibles (in multiple translations), and dozens of rows of other books trying to explain the Bibles.
Listening to this in 2024, with the benefit of hindsight, is amazing. Note the section from ±50:00–62:00. Andrea mentions, near the end, how the religious right's alliance with Trump had not had much fruit, with Roe v Wade as an example. We all know how that turned out, and I would love to hear what she thinks about that. Having said that, I absolutely think Andy Flanagan and Andrea are on the money with their concerns about the price we pay for such alliances. John's response misses the point.
great episode
a hill of beans
what about the millions of people born with an unclear gender or mixed gender (xxy, hormonal disbalance and others)
Typical theists skipping over awkward questions about the embarrassing parts of the bible such as slavery being endorsed. Theists only ever cherry pick the nice parts. The Bible is a vulgar book of fables that endorses genocide, misogyny, homophobia, slavery, racism and child abuse
do you have catholics on?
Thank you! I would love to hear a discussion about covenant theology vs dispensationalism. This one touches on it, but doesn't focus on it.
This was really helpful, thank you! As a "reformed" Christian, I really wanted to understand arguments from the other side.
this was ridiculous and best summed with "I don't know know what your are talking about....but it's not science"
I am sick of these stupid race debates. it doesn't matter what skin colour Jesus is. He is the Lord. the devil is using the race issues to defend us more and we keep letting it happen. Just stop it. Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.
❣️❣️❣️
I loved this discussion, but it seems to have had an issue in the middle where the audio starts to replay an earlier segment.
I cannot accept that "cancer" wasn't in the design, that it was brought into us by Adam's sin. I find that atrocious to think god is punishing random people with disease because of of something that is written in the bible. I wonder if god is the reason for Covid.....just ridiculous. It's biology, and biology has been existing before us, before our brain thought if the idea of what biology was. It's just crazy to think god created biological cells that harm humans because man supposedly sin. Which isn't even provable.