unSeminary Podcast

Welcome back to another episode of the unSeminary podcast. We’re talking with Jerod Walker from Intulse, a church calling and texting platform designed to help ministry teams communicate with people without relying on personal phone numbers. Jerod spent 20 years serving in local church ministry as a children’s pastor, lead pastor, and church planter before joining Intulse, where he now helps churches strengthen communication, follow-up, and accountability. Are your staff members using personal cell numbers for ministry? Are important conversations living on individual devices where no one else can see or access them? Tune in as Jerod identifies communication blind spots that can quietly hinder church growth and explains how churches can serve people more personally while protecting staff, families, and ministry. Personal phones became ministry tools by accident. // Over the last 20 years, church communication shifted dramatically. Smartphones and COVID accelerated the move away from office phones and email toward personal mobile devices. But most churches never intentionally decided that staff members’ personal phones should become their primary ministry communication system. Convenience drove the change, and many churches are now discovering the unintended consequences of that decision. Protect your staff’s personal boundaries. // Once a staff member gives out a personal number, it can’t be taken back. Messages begin arriving at night, on weekends, during vacations, and even in important moments with family. Even if someone chooses not to respond immediately, a difficult text can still change their emotional state. Jerod encourages churches to remember that healthy communication systems should help ministry leaders remain available without making them accessible every hour of every day. Make sure follow-up actually happens. // As churches grow, leaders can no longer personally know whether every guest, volunteer, or attendee received the promised follow-up. Assuming someone owns the process isn’t enough. Churches need a way to verify that calls and messages actually happened. This is especially important with first-time guests, where missed communication can create gaps in assimilation and cause people to quietly disappear before they ever become connected. Create continuity between ministry teams. // Communication often breaks down when one staff member hands a person off to another department. A guest may express interest in kids ministry, Alpha, a small group, or another next step, but the new staff member may have no context for the previous conversation. When communication history is documented and accessible, people don’t have to repeatedly explain their story every time they interact with someone new. Separate ministry communication from personal communication. // Intulse allows staff members to call and text through a work-assigned number using the smartphone they already carry. Staff can control notifications, turn them off during personal time, and even allow another team member to monitor the number while they are away. This helps leaders maintain healthy boundaries while ensuring people still receive a timely response. Connect conversations to your church database. // Intulse integrates with church management systems including Planning Center, Rock, CCB, and Breeze. Calls and text messages can be automatically logged in a person’s record, and staff can add notes during a conversation. Instead of relying on memory or requiring another manual database step, important ministry interactions become part of the church’s shared information. Build a communication policy before you need one. // Jerod encourages churches to create clear guidelines for one-to-one ministry communication, not just mass emails and announcements. A shared system provides accountability and helps protect both staff members and the church. Rather than viewing these safeguards as distrust, leaders can frame them as protection: when communication is visible within the approved system, the church is better equipped to defend staff against misunderstandings or accusations. Keep ministry history with the church. // When conversations happen only on a staff member’s personal phone, that communication history leaves when the employee leaves. The church may lose important context, relationships, and follow-up information. Keeping ministry communication within a church-owned system allows those conversations to remain accessible and ensures another leader can continue caring for people without starting from scratch. Use technology to become more human. // Larger churches often struggle to maintain the personal feel people experience in smaller churches. Jerod believes technology should make genuine human connection easier, not replace it. Bulk messages can become individual two-way conversations, and staff can quickly call or text people without unnecessary friction. The goal is to use technology to reduce administrative work so ministry leaders have more time to personally care for people. To learn more about Jerod Walker and Intulse, visit intulse.com/unseminary. There you can download the free resource, 10 Communication Blind Spots That Hinder Church Growth, and schedule a conversation with the Intulse team to explore how your church can improve communication, follow-up, accountability, and staff boundaries. Thank You for Tuning In! There are a lot of podcasts you could be tuning into today, but you chose unSeminary, and I’m grateful for that. If you enjoyed today’s show, please share it by using the social media buttons you see at the left hand side of this page. Also, kindly consider taking the 60-seconds it takes to leave an honest review and rating for the podcast on iTunes, they’re extremely helpful when it comes to the ranking of the show and you can bet that I read every single one of them personally! Episode Transcript Rich Birch — Hey friends, welcome to the unSeminary Podcast. So glad that you have decided to tune in. Listen, lean in, folks. Lean in hard on today’s episode because we’re going to talk about something today that I’m pretty sure 100% of the churches that we’re listening with, or very close to 100 % of the churches we’re listening to are wrestling with.Rich Birch — This is an issue that if you could solve this issue, it’ll be a better work-life balance stuff for your team. And at the same time, you’ll serve more people in a better way. The people you’re trying to serve in your community, which that can sometimes be in opposition to each other, but not in today’s conversation. Rich Birch — I’m really excited. We have coerced the one and only Jerod Walker to be with us on the call today. Super excited to have him. He’s a part of the executive team at a technology firm called Intulse. They’re a church calling and texting platform that has spent the last 10 years building this incredible solution. It lets church staff call and text from their own smart smartphone or from a smartphone without using their own personal number. It’s all connected to your church management software. So stuff like Planning Center and Rock. So all of that is logged. And they work with some incredible churches across the country, help lots of great things happening. They’ve got 20 years of hands-on ministry experience. Jerod, welcome to the show. So glad you’re here.Jerod Walker — Thanks so much for giving me the opportunity, Rich. Looking forward to it.Rich Birch — Yeah, I’m pumped to to talk this through a little bit. But why don’t you start with kind of giving us a little bit of your background. Tell us the Jerod story. Tell us about Intulse and kind of the the corner of the church world that you have found yourself in and and kind of your area of expertise. Tell us, talk us through that.Jerod Walker — Yeah, so I spent 20 years serving churches in ministry in located ministry as pastor children’s pastor, lead pastor even a church planter. And I’m not the only one on the Intulse team. We have a number of former pastors, missionaries and other church planters on our team. Jerod Walker — In fact, the founders of Intulse had originally written church management software that maybe some of the people listening to this used. And then they sold that company and Intulse became what they did next. And originally they sold to businesses because of their arrangement when they sold the company not to not to you know those non-solicitation agreements.Rich Birch — Yeah, non-compete or whatever.Jerod Walker — And so I often say that we use the business world to figure out how to make it all work and then brought it to churches where our heart really is. And so our our pricing for churches is discounted by 20%. 10% of our profit goes to a missions organization in the Dominican because that’s just the heart of of who we are.Jerod Walker — So we want to serve churches because we’ve been there and we’re active in our own churches. We want to continue to create technology tools, that benefit the ministries and churches that we love. And so we work with churches all across the country, all different sizes i could name really large churches with hundreds of staff on our system as well as the church plant with just a couple of people on the team that are using us as well.Rich Birch — Yeah, I want to take advantage of the fact of kind of your vantage point because of what you just said there at the end. You you really see inside a lot of churches as an organization. You get ah an upfront view of the kinds of issues that churches are trying to solve and to fix and to use technology. Rich Birch — I love, you know, unSeminary, we call it this you know stuff you wish they taught in seminary. And I can tell you there ain’t no seminary that’s talking about what we’re talking about todayJerod Walker — Right.Rich Birch — But this is classic because this is an issue that all churches wrestle with, but

Welcome back to another episode of the unSeminary podcast. We’re talking with Toni Nieuwhof, author, speaker, family law mediator, podcaster, and co-host of the Smart Family Podcast. Toni has spent much of her professional life helping people navigate difficult circumstances, and her own journey through pain, healing, and faith has shaped her latest project, Honest to God: Daring to Trust When You Don’t Understand. How does your church help people when God feels distant, silent, or even confusing? Are there people in your congregation quietly wrestling with suffering while everyone around them assumes they’re doing fine? Tune in as Toni shares why churches need to create safer spaces for honest questions, how community can shape the way people walk through suffering, and how her new book can help leaders support people in seasons of pain. Suffering often reveals what we’ve buried. // Toni describes her own long healing journey from growing up in a home marked by alcoholism, anger, and emotional disconnection. For years, she would have described her childhood as normal, but over time God began exposing defense mechanisms and unresolved pain. Healing took decades, reminding leaders that people may be carrying wounds they don’t yet understand—or may not even realize are shaping them. Lean toward God when life doesn’t make sense. // Honest to God was inspired in part by Moses’ response after Israel’s rebellion with the golden calf. Rather than pulling away from God in frustration, Moses leaned in and asked God to teach him His ways, remain present, and show His glory. Toni sees that posture as a powerful model for anyone facing suffering, confusion, or disappointment. Make room for multiple stories of suffering. // Toni invited a diverse group of contributors—such as Mark Batterson, Ann Voskamp, Jennie Lusko, John Ortberg, and others—to share vulnerable stories about what they discovered about God during difficult seasons. The book is organized around three themes: the ways of God, intimacy with God, and the glory of God. Each chapter explores what someone learned, experienced, or saw more clearly as they walked through suffering. Don’t assume you can see someone’s crisis. // People can become highly skilled at masking spiritual and emotional pain. Toni notes that someone may still attend church, serve, smile, and participate while privately wondering whether God is good, whether He has forgotten them, or whether He is even listening. Because those questions can feel too frightening or even sacrilegious to voice, people often distract themselves rather than confront them. Community can determine whether people lean in or drift away. // Toni believes one of the most important factors in how people navigate suffering is the quality of Christian community around them. Isolation can happen even inside a church or small group. Healthy communities create enough trust for people to remove their masks, ask hard questions, and tell the truth without immediately being corrected or pressured to put a positive spiritual spin on heartbreaking circumstances. Give your church language for grief and doubt. // Toni believes churches are often strong at celebrating transformation but less equipped to walk with people through prolonged suffering. To help leaders open those conversations, the project includes a four-week sermon series and group study guide. These resources are designed to help churches talk honestly about adversity, disappointment, trust, and God’s faithfulness without minimizing what people are experiencing. Let the project help beyond your church. // Toni and every contributor donated their time to the project, and 100% of the proceeds support young adult education through Compassion International and Convoy of Hope. Purchasing through the project’s website helps maximize the amount directed toward those causes while also providing churches access to bulk ordering and additional healing resources. To learn more about Toni Nieuwhof, purchase Honest to God: Daring to Trust When You Don’t Understand, or explore resources for churches and small groups, visit honesttoGodbook.com. Thank You for Tuning In! There are a lot of podcasts you could be tuning into today, but you chose unSeminary, and I’m grateful for that. If you enjoyed today’s show, please share it by using the social media buttons you see at the left hand side of this page. Also, kindly consider taking the 60-seconds it takes to leave an honest review and rating for the podcast on iTunes, they’re extremely helpful when it comes to the ranking of the show and you can bet that I read every single one of them personally! Thank You to This Episode’s Sponsor: TouchPoint As your church reaches more people, one of the biggest challenges is making sure no one slips through the cracks along the way.TouchPoint Church Management Software is an all-in-one ecosystem built for churches that want to elevate discipleship by providing clear data, strong engagement tools, and dependable workflows that scale as you grow. TouchPoint is trusted by some of the fastest-growing and largest churches in the country because it helps teams stay aligned, understand who they’re reaching, and make confident ministry decisions week after week. If you’ve been wondering whether your current system can carry your next season of growth, it may be time to explore what TouchPoint can do for you. You can evaluate TouchPoint during a free, no-pressure one-hour demo at TouchPointSoftware.com/demo. Episode Transcript Rich Birch — Hey friends, welcome to the unSeminary podcast. Listen, come here, come in close, you listen in because today’s conversation is fantastic and you are going to love where we are going.Rich Birch — Today I’ve got like a real world friend, somebody that I know outside of the internet and I want you to know them better. But not only that, they’ve got this incredible project that is going to help you and your church. And I ultimately think actually people you know who attend your church and maybe even beyond your church, this is going to be a fantastic conversation.Rich Birch — Honored to have my friend, Toni Nieuwhof with us. She is an author, a speaker, a family law mediator, and has spent decades of her professional life practicing law where she’s combining her professional careers also as a pharmacist, and a lawyer in leadership roles for hospitals. She’s incredibly talented, and and she’s also a podcaster, and she’s an author. She does a lot of different things. Toni, welcome to the podcast. So glad you’re here.Toni Nieuwhof — Oh, Rich, I am thrilled to be here. And yeah, it’s so great to have ah a good conversation with a friend anytime, but especially with you. So thanks for having me on.Rich Birch — That’s so kind of you. It’s always a little bit funny when I have people that I know in the real world on the podcast because, you know, there’s like this conversation we’re having and it’s mediated through this technology, which is kind of funny, but hopefully it’ll it’ll it’ll be a positive I know it’ll be a positive conversation for people that are listening in. Rich Birch — But I kind of gave a little bit of your professional background. You have this incredible, when I talk about you, I’m coming clean. When I talk about you behind your back, Toni, I say, you know, I have this friend, Toni, who’s done everything. She’s pharmacist, lawyer, you know, all that stuff I rattle off, law mediator, podcaster, author. It’s like you’re constantly reinventing yourself in the best way possible. So to what’s the through line in that and how what led you to to here to where you are today? Kind of author, you know, podcaster. Talk to me about that.Toni Nieuwhof — Oh, sometimes, Rich, I’d have to say that, you know, I feel a bit schizophrenic when we talk about all the different hats. I’ve had such a winding path of a of a career. As far as a through line, I feel like God’s been very gracious to me. I’ve felt like I went through those various changes in my professional life, wondering where this is all going. But in every context, feeling like, okay, I have an assignment right now and I can serve these people this way. Toni Nieuwhof — And so I think the through line is that I’ve really I feel like God has led me through a um a personal healing journey of my own, um where I’ve actually been privileged to serve people along the way with the tools that he’s put in my hands. But at this stage in my professional life, I know a thing or two about what it is to um to suffer trauma and what it is to heal and find God in the midst of it. And that process has just left me with so much gratitude and also very motivated to just be a part of conversations um that focus on how God truly does show up ah in the journey of suffering.Rich Birch — Yeah, I love that. And we’re, you know, friends, you’re getting a hint of where we’re headed today. And I’m, this thing is gonna be a good conversation for us to to wrestle through and think about that. What stood out to me there is you talked about, you know, your own personal healing journey, you know, that this has been, you know, as you look back in your in in your life, I wonder if you could talk a little bit about that. Talk to me about, in your own life, how the kind of intersection of suffering, trauma, doubt, faith—How does how of all those kind of weave together for you in your own life?Toni Nieuwhof — Yeah, well, I would um just to give a little bit of context for people briefly.Rich Birch — Sure. Yes. Perfect.Toni Nieuwhof — I grew up in a middle class home that from the outside would have looked pretty normal, but from the inside um felt very chaotic. So my my dad was a binge drinker and alcoholic. He also was functional. So he he worked and he was a manager and had a a good position himself professionally. But in my home life, there was a lot of emotional disconnection and a

Welcome back to another episode of the unSeminary podcast. We’re talking with Trey Hildebrant, Danny de Armas, and David Loveless from First Orlando, a historic multisite church serving Central Florida since 1871. Together, they are helping lead the church into a new season focused on multiplication, leadership development, and sending people into new gospel expressions across their region and beyond. What happens when a 150-year-old church decides it doesn’t want to simply preserve what it has built? How do you move from addition to multiplication without losing the strengths that got you there? Tune in as the First Orlando team shares how a bold vision, a new leadership structure, and a commitment to empowering everyday people are reshaping the future of the church. Lead through shared responsibility. // First Orlando currently operates with a “table of three” senior leadership model. Trey Hildebrant leads teaching and provides direction to campus pastors, Danny de Armas oversees executive leadership and organizational strategy, and David Uth provides shepherding and pastoral leadership. All three report to the board rather than to one another. The model works because they have clearly defined lanes, strong relationships, and the ability to disagree privately while stepping out publicly in unity. Make the Great Commission personal. // A major shift began when Danny realized the Great Commission is not only an institutional mission for the church but a personal mission for every believer. That insight reframed the way First Orlando began thinking about its future. Instead of asking only what the church organization could accomplish, leaders started asking how they could equip people to live on mission wherever God had already placed them. Put a God-sized vision on the table. // During a peer learning gathering, First Orlando leaders were challenged to imagine how many new gospel expressions they could launch over the next decade. Their initial answer was 10. Then they were challenged to add a zero. That moment eventually became the “110” vision: raising up 300 leaders and launching 100 gospel expressions over 10 years. The goal felt impossible, which was exactly what made it worth pursuing. Define gospel expressions broadly. // First Orlando defines a gospel expression as a “Great Commission community” where people pursue Jesus together, become more like Him, and are sent back into their everyday world. Rather than limiting the vision to traditional church plants, the team developed four expressions: regional campuses, church plants, microsites, and missional expressions. This gives the church room to reach different kinds of people through different ministry models. Match the model to the mission field. // Each gospel expression is designed for a different context. Regional campuses offer a full-service First Orlando experience. Church plants launch with their own identity and governance while remaining connected relationally. Microsites create smaller gatherings in homes, workplaces, or community spaces for people skeptical of institutional church. Missional expressions embed disciples directly into cultural spaces such as prisons, recovery communities, or even social clubs. Build the leadership pipeline first. // The team recognizes that multiplication will only happen if leaders are raised up before new expressions are launched. First Orlando is developing a sending residency built for co-vocational and bi-vocational people who can keep their jobs, families, and neighborhoods while being equipped for mission. The residency combines community, training, practice, feedback, and assignments over an extended season. Shift from “we can do it” to “you can do it.” // David Loveless, Executive Pastor of Global Mobilization, explains that churches focused on addition often communicate, “We can do ministry, and you can help us.” Multiplying churches reverse that mindset: “God has given you a vision, and we want to help you live it out.” First Orlando is working to expand the kingdom imagination of its people so they no longer see ministry as something that primarily happens through staff and programs. Keep celebrating the vision. // Launching a big vision is only the beginning. Trey emphasizes the importance of repeatedly telling stories of new gospel expressions, baptisms, and people stepping into leadership. Celebration helps the church remain emotionally connected to the vision long after the initial launch. Without consistent storytelling, even a compelling strategy can quietly fade into the background. To learn more about First Orlando and follow the story of its campuses, sending residency, and expanding gospel expressions, visit First Orlando at firstorlando.com and follow the church across its social channels. Leaders interested in learning more about their framework and resources behind their multiplication strategy can also connect directly with the First Orlando team. Thank You for Tuning In! There are a lot of podcasts you could be tuning into today, but you chose unSeminary, and I’m grateful for that. If you enjoyed today’s show, please share it by using the social media buttons you see at the left hand side of this page. Also, kindly consider taking the 60-seconds it takes to leave an honest review and rating for the podcast on iTunes, they’re extremely helpful when it comes to the ranking of the show and you can bet that I read every single one of them personally! Episode Transcript Rich Birch — Hey friends, Rich here from the unSeminary Podcast. So glad that you have decided to tune in. Wow, we have got an incredibly special podcast for you today. The stuff we’re talking about on multiple layers, I know, hope, pray, will impact your church. We’re talking about how do teams interact with each other. We’re talking about vision for the future. We’re talking about multiplication. And we’re getting a chance to sit down with multiple leaders from a prevailing church that’s doing a great job. Looking forward to looking under the hood. Alittle bit excited to have our friends from First Orlando with us. This is the first time I was just joking about this. The first time we have had. Three, not one, not two, but three guests on the line. So this is going to be good. It’s going to stretch me. It’s kind of like The View, but for church leaders. It’s going to be good and hopefully fun. Rich Birch — Excited to have Trey Hildebrant with us. He is the senior teaching pastor at First Orlando, newest member of the team. Danny de Armas, he is the Senior Executive Pastor, if I’m getting all the titles correctly, and David Loveless, Executive Pastor of Global Mobilization. Honored to have you guys with us. Rich Birch — If you’re not aware of First Orlando, This church started in 1871. They currently have multiple campuses across the greater Orlando area, including, if I’m counting correctly, four English locations, Campus Hispano and Campus Brasilio. It’s a fantastic church doing lots of great things. There’s lots of stuff we could talk about. Excited to have you guys on the call today. Thanks for being here.Trey Hildebrant — We’re excited.Danny de Armas — Great to be a part.Rich Birch — Why don’t we start, Trey, with you. Kind of tell, that’s like a boilerplate about the church. For folks that don’t know the church, kind of tell us a little bit about the church. Give us a bit more flavor. Fill out the picture a little bit for us.Trey Hildebrant — Well, you mentioned that we are a church that’s 150 years old. So there is a rich legacy. When I joined the team, one of the things that we celebrated was there’s only been five pastors in the past 100 years or something like that.Rich Birch — Wow, wow.Trey Hildebrant — So there’s this history there. There’s this presence in the community and around the world, honestly, that that honest partly drew my heart to First Orlando. And so we’ve been here since December of ’25, my wife and I. We came from an incredible church, but knew God was calling us to something different. and knew that Wherever God called us, we wanted to be a part of salvations and baptisms.Trey Hildebrant — And early in the conversation with First Orlando, David Uth and I, our senior shepherding pastor, just sat around and talked about our heart for baptisms for an hour one day in the interview process. And it’s that history. It’s that culture, it’s that calling, that Great Commission calling that helped affirm that this is where God wanted us to be. And hopefully, with me being the the new one on the team, one of the younger guys on the team, I hope to be here for 35 years to continue what God has been doing over the past 150.Rich Birch — That’s incredible. Yeah. You know, to honor your your leadership and your church, you know, I think of First Orlando as like one of those churches of record. It’s like when I think of Orlando, I think of First Orlando, like you guys have been there for a long time and served well. You know, I like to call you like a, it’s a life-giving church. Like this is the kind of church, my wife and I have this shorthand whenever I travel or interact with other church leaders, the shorthand we’ve boiled it down to, she says, yeah, but would you go there? Like, would you be a part of that church?Rich Birch — And First Orlando is definitely one of those churches. It’s like, man, you guys do such a great job on so many levels. And there’s a lot we could talk about.Trey Hildebrant — Well, it’s really kind of really kind of you to say that.Rich Birch — Oh, come on.Trey Hildebrant — There is something sweet. There is something really sweet about the presence of this place that you just even touched on. We just had a prayer gathering. We pray on Thursday mornings at 9 a.m. as a staff. And one of the things that came out in the prayer today was just there’s a presence here that helps draw people in and we’re grateful.Rich Birch — Yeah, t

Welcome back to another episode of the unSeminary podcast. We’re talking with Dr. Gavin Adams, author, ministry consultant, leadership coach, and founder of Accelerate Consulting Advisory. Gavin previously served for 13 years as lead pastor of Woodstock City Church, where attendance grew from 200 to 8,000. Today, he works with churches around leadership strategy, organizational health, and clarity. Has your church become more complex than it needs to be? Are you running good programs that may no longer be moving the mission forward? Tune in as Gavin shares practical ways to rethink your ministry model, simplify your church’s pathway, and make sure everything you do helps people take meaningful steps toward Jesus. Your problem may be design, not passion. // Gavin often works with churches that deeply care about reaching people but still feel stuck. In many cases, the issue isn’t a lack of vision, theology, or commitment. It’s organizational design. Churches can have the right mission and still struggle because their structures, systems, and ministry models are no longer helping them execute that mission effectively. Stay married to the mission, not the model. // Every ministry model is created for a specific moment. Even a model that once worked perfectly can become outdated as the community, culture, and church change. Gavin encourages leaders to “date the model, not marry the model.” The mission remains constant, but the strategies and structures used to accomplish it should remain flexible. Beware of accumulated complexity. // Most churches don’t intentionally become complicated. They simply keep adding good things to meet legitimate needs. Over time, those programs, events, and ministries stack on top of one another until the church becomes busy without necessarily becoming more effective. Gavin challenges leaders to recognize that good activities can still compete with better, more mission-critical priorities. Put the mission on the whiteboard. // A practical first step is to reduce your mission to about eight words or fewer and then list everything your church currently does. Evaluate each program, event, and ministry against that mission. Does it clearly move the mission forward? If not, leaders should honestly ask why they continue doing it rather than automatically carrying last year’s calendar into the next year. Build a moving sidewalk, not a buffet. // Gavin compares an effective discipleship pathway to a moving sidewalk. Once someone steps onto it, the next step should feel clear, logical, and increasingly move them toward spiritual growth. Churches often create too many disconnected options instead. The goal is not to offer everything possible but to design a clear pathway that helps people know what their next step should be. Become person-centric instead of church-centric. // Churches often begin with what they want to offer and then ask who it might serve. Gavin recommends reversing that process. Start with the person you are trying to reach, understand where they are spiritually, and then design ministry around helping them move forward. Discipleship is simply helping people take incremental steps toward becoming more like Jesus. Use the five rights. // Gavin’s framework asks whether the right person receives the right message at the right time, in the right way, leading to the right next step. Those questions help leaders evaluate both existing ministries and new ideas. Not everyone needs the same ministry experience. Someone exploring faith may need a low-commitment serving opportunity, while a mature believer may be ready for leadership or deeper responsibility. Gavin encourages churches to consider both the step they want someone to take and the best way for that individual to take it based on where they currently are spiritually. Start with fresh eyes. // Redesigning a ministry model can be difficult when leaders are immersed in the current system. Gavin recommends involving an outside facilitator, consultant, or strategic leader who can help the team ask hard questions objectively. Fresh perspective can reveal complexity and assumptions that insiders have learned to accept as normal. To learn more about Gavin Adams and his work with churches, visit gavinadams.com or follow him on Instagram. Download an excerpt of his book, RE:MODEL: Five Questions That Reshape How You See and Build Your Church. Or purchase the book on Amazon for a step-by-step framework for evaluating and rebuilding your ministry model around the mission. Thank You for Tuning In! There are a lot of podcasts you could be tuning into today, but you chose unSeminary, and I’m grateful for that. If you enjoyed today’s show, please share it by using the social media buttons you see at the left hand side of this page. Also, kindly consider taking the 60-seconds it takes to leave an honest review and rating for the podcast on iTunes, they’re extremely helpful when it comes to the ranking of the show and you can bet that I read every single one of them personally! Lastly, don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast on iTunes, to get automatic updates every time a new episode goes live! Thank You to This Episode’s Sponsor: Portable Church Your church is doing really well right now, and your leadership team is looking for solutions to keep momentum going! It could be time to start a new location. Maybe you have hesitated in the past few years, but you know it’s time to step out in faith again and launch that next location. Portable Church has assembled a bundle of resources to help you leverage your growing momentum into a new location by sending a part of your congregation back to their neighborhood on Mission. This bundle of resources will give you a step-by-step plan to launch that new or next location, and a 5 minute readiness tool that will help you know your church is ready to do it! Click here to watch the free webinar “Launch a New Location in 150 Days or Less” and grab the bundle of resources for your church! Episode Transcript Rich Birch — Hey friends, welcome to the unSeminary podcast. Listen, we’ve got a return guest today, which what that means is, you know that I really love this person, think they’ve got a lot of good things to say to you. Doesn’t happen very much, but I’m really excited to have this guest back. And you need to lean in today because I think what this person has diagnosed, there are churches that are listening in today that are wrestling with. In fact, I know that’s true. There are churches that are, there might be something going on in your church that you might not be able to name that we’re going to name today, that if you could really wrestle it down, could make a real huge difference in your church. Rich Birch — And so you’re not going to want to miss today’s conversation with Dr. Gavin Adams. He’s an author, communicator, ministry consultant, leadership coach, and the founder of Accelerate Consulting Advisory. He works with pastors around leadership strategy, church health, organizational clarity. He previously was the lead at Woodstock City Church in Woodstock, Georgia for 13 years. During that time, the church church grew from 200 to 8,000 in weekly attendance, which is staggering. Gavin, welcome to the show. So glad you’re here.Gavin Adams — Hey, I appreciate that. That bio sounds way better than it actually probably is. But good to see you again.Rich Birch — I appreciate you coming back on. Tell us a little bit, fill in the picture since we last talked, what’s what’s going on in Gavin’s world?Gavin Adams — Yeah, yeah, lots of great stuff. My family stuff is probably my favorite thing that’s happening. You know, we we love that. I’ve got two little grandkids now, which makes me feel very old, but I’m very, very grateful. And my kids are all love each other, and we get to spend time with them. And I’ll tell you, that’s wonderful. And I love so much getting to work with pastors and churches around, really, I guess, around the world at this point.Gavin Adams — And watching what God is doing in different contexts, but also helping diagnose what’s working, what’s not working, how do we make things better, knowing, you know, I think we all believe this, that the the mission of the local church is the most important mission in the city. And so how do we ensure and this is my bent for sure but how do we ensure that the organization is functioning in the most healthy, most dynamic way possible so that that mission can come to fruition, that we don’t leave anything on the table because eternity is at stake, right?Rich Birch — That’s good.Gavin Adams — I love getting to do that. I get to do it every single day. And that’s my favorite it’s my favorite thing about my job.Rich Birch — Love it. So good. And we want to take advantage of the fact that you’re here today as a coach/consultant to so many churches across the country, around the world. Like you said, we want to tap that expertise and hear what you’re hearing and help the churches that are are listening in. You sit with a lot of leaders, a lot of pastors, and you have a lot of conversations. When a church picks up the phone or emails you, they call you. What’s going on? What’s happening there that they reach out to you?Gavin Adams — Yeah, there’s there’s one of a couple of things it usually comes down to. Most everyone I talk to is typically growth-oriented, and I don’t mean necessarily numerically growth-oriented. But the pastors I tend to work with or who reach out are pastors who are who care deeply about their community, about the local church, but also care about seeing people grow in their faith, unreached people be reached. Gavin Adams — And so there is this kind of dynamic of progress right in their heart. And they’re putting people first, but they want to see people making progress. And so I end up talking to lots of churches where that is happening in so

Welcome back to another episode of the unSeminary podcast. We’re talking with Adam Weber, founder and lead pastor of Embrace Church in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. What began in 2006 with 32 people has grown into a multisite church reaching thousands each week. Along the way, Adam has experienced explosive growth, painful leadership setbacks, seasons of rebuilding, and renewed momentum. Has your church hit a plateau after years of growth? Are you carrying more than your team can sustain? Wondering how greater clarity and healthier leadership rhythms could help your church move forward? Tune in as Adam shares lessons from Embrace’s lowest season and explains how greater self-awareness, organizational focus, and the Traction framework helped reshape both his leadership and the church. Growth can expose unhealthy leadership. // Embrace experienced significant growth from 2009 through 2016, but Adam admits that his drive to keep moving forward eventually took a toll on his team. He wasn’t an angry or demanding leader in obvious ways, but he constantly pushed toward the next goal. Looking back, Adam realized that leaders can genuinely love people and still wear them out. Good intentions don’t automatically produce healthy leadership. Own your part in the problem. // A painful staff conflict eventually resulted in 10 of the 16 people closest to Adam leaving the church, along with hundreds of attendees. While it was easy initially to blame others, Adam gradually recognized how his own leadership contributed to the situation. He had to confront people-pleasing, his relentless pace, and the ways he had failed to care for his team. That willingness to take responsibility became foundational to Embrace’s recovery. Build a circle that can handle the truth. // Adam leaned heavily on his wife, close friends, therapy, and trusted ministry relationships during his lowest season. These were people who allowed him to express grief, anger, and confusion without abandoning him. They also helped him see blind spots he couldn’t recognize on his own. Leaders need people who love them deeply but aren’t overly impressed by them—people who can offer both support and honest feedback. Learn to pause. // One of the clearest changes in Adam’s leadership today is his willingness to slow down. He pauses more in meetings, accepts when team members say no, and resists the urge to squeeze one more project into the schedule. Rather than automatically pushing for what is possible, he now asks whether pursuing another opportunity will unnecessarily burden the team. Slowing down has helped him become both healthier and more sustainable as a leader. Protect your own soul. // Adam also changed the way he approaches personal health and his relationship with God. Instead of allowing busyness to crowd out time with Jesus, he now increases that time when ministry becomes more demanding. He intentionally creates margin, eats lunch, steps away, and takes breaks that once would have felt unproductive. Use clarity to create focus. // After COVID, Embrace implemented the Traction framework based on the EOS (Entrepreneurial Operating System) model. The process helped the leadership team revisit its vision, identify its distinctives, define its target audience, and establish a long-term goal. Embrace clarified its mission as “relentlessly reaching the next person for Jesus” and identified relatability as one of its key distinctives. That clarity has helped the church say no to distractions and concentrate energy around its primary mission. Break big vision into smaller steps. // Traction helped Embrace move from a 10-year vision to three-year, one-year, and 90-day priorities. Every 90 days, leaders identify five or six major “rocks” that deserve focused attention. Each rock has a clear owner, measurable milestones, and weekly accountability. Rather than chasing whatever feels urgent or exciting, the team continually returns to the handful of priorities it has already agreed matter most. Let accountability replace micromanagement. // The system has also helped Adam release control. Team members own specific priorities and report whether each one is on track or off track. That accountability means Adam doesn’t have to constantly monitor every detail. The process has increased ownership across the staff while allowing him to function more effectively as the visionary instead of becoming the bottleneck. Listen to the people you serve. // Embrace also uses an annual survey to gather candid feedback from attendees. Open-ended questions reveal recurring patterns that leaders might otherwise miss. One example was parking, an issue Adam barely noticed because he wasn’t experiencing the church like a first-time guest. Listening carefully to people has helped the church identify practical problems and respond before they become barriers to growth. To learn more about Adam Weber or connect, visit adamweber.com or find him on Instagram at @adamaweber. To learn more about Embrace Church, its campuses, and how the church is relentlessly reaching the next person for Jesus, visit iamembrace.com. Thank You for Tuning In! There are a lot of podcasts you could be tuning into today, but you chose unSeminary, and I’m grateful for that. If you enjoyed today’s show, please share it by using the social media buttons you see at the left hand side of this page. Also, kindly consider taking the 60-seconds it takes to leave an honest review and rating for the podcast on iTunes, they’re extremely helpful when it comes to the ranking of the show and you can bet that I read every single one of them personally! Thank You to This Episode’s Sponsor: Intulse If you’re committed to the growth of your church, make sure your communication systems are set up so nobody feels left behind. When your church is smaller, that comes easy. You know people by name. A guest doesn’t get lost in the shuffle—someone follows up, every guest, every time. But growth can change that—unless your systems grow with you. Perhaps this church using Intulse says it best: “Intulse has revolutionized the way we communicate with people, giving us the ability to make a big church feel small because of that personal connection.” The Intulse app gives your team members a working church number, so anyone can call or text without ever handing out a personal number. Every conversation syncs straight into your ChMS, like Planning Center, so your whole staff stays on the same page—no matter who a person talks to. That’s how you keep every person feeling known, no matter how big your church gets. Want to know if your communication systems are ready for growth? Download Intulse’s free guide, “10 Communication Blind Spots That Hinder Church Growth,” at Intulse.com/unseminary. And if any of those blind spots hit home for you, schedule a call with one of their church communication specialists to learn how Intulse can help. Episode Transcript Rich Birch — Hey friends, welcome to the unSeminary Podcast. So glad that you have decided to tune in. Listen, lean in on today’s conversation, ah because I know you’re going to have some stuff you can pull out of this for your church. There’s some part of this discussion that’s going to help you as you think through leading in the season you’re currently in.Rich Birch — We’re honored to have Adam Weber with us. He’s the founder and lead pastor of Embrace Church, which began in 2006, with just 32 people gathered at a worship service. Today, it’s a few more than 32. Embrace is one church with, if I’m counting correctly, five campuses worshiping with thousands each week around Sioux Falls, South Dakota. Outreach Magazine named these guys, Embrace, one of the fastest growing churches in the country in 2026. Adam is the author of Talking with God and Love Has a Name. He hosts the Life Between Sundays podcast while he and his wife, Becky, have four kids. Adam, welcome to the show. So glad you’re here.Adam Weber — Oh, Rich, huge honor. I know I said this before to you. You are someone that I’ve looked to for wisdom, encouragement, insight for many years. And so this for me is a huge honor. And I do I just really don’t take it lightly. Honestly, if it was anything else today, I’m headed to the cabin right after this. If it was anything else, I’d be like, ah, let’s pass on that. But for me, like for me, this is one of those like key true honors. And so I just thank you big time. I’m just on behalf, honestly, of so many people who listen just like me and read your writing. Thank you.Rich Birch — That’s kind of you to say. That’s really kind of you to say. This is between you and the cabin. So we’ll make this quick. We’ll get this. We’ll move this on. I don’t want to…Adam Weber — No. No, there is zero rush. Zero rush.Rich Birch — No, I’m just kidding. That’s that’s great. That’s fantastic. So why don’t you kind of give us the story, the the Embrace story. It’s like 20 years in a few minutes. Adam Weber — Yeah.Rich Birch — Take us back to 2026, back to those 32 people. What did that look like? And then paint the picture of where Embrace is today.Adam Weber — Oh, so I always, when I encourage pastors, I’m like, do the opposite of what we did. So I was going into my third and final year at Asbury Seminary. So I was living in Kentucky and my pastor who led me to Christ, led me to my wife, led me into ministry, led me to Asbury, had the initial idea of a new church in Sioux Falls.Adam Weber — He’s the one who who reached out to me and said, hey, we’re we’re thinking about starting a church in Sioux Falls. What do you think? And I’m like, I think Sioux Falls has enough churches. Rich Birch — Right.Adam Weber — Like I don’t think… and and then who’s gonna pastor this thing? He’s like, that’s why I’m calling you.Rich Birch — Right.Adam Weber — Like I don’t think and and then who’s gonna pastor this thing And I was like, ah, I’m not