Belly Dance Podcast A Little Lighter

It has been a while friends! I started producing this podcast back in 2018, and by 2023 I had recorded 75 incredible episodes that are all still very available for your listening pleasure.  The last podcast interview I recorded was with Rachel Brice, and I also recorded amazing conversations with Suhalia Salimpour, Carloeen Nereccio, Jill Parker, Jillina of Belly Dance Evolution, Ebony, Kamrah, and many more brilliant dancers.  https://bellydancebodyandsoul.com/rachel-brice-podcast-interview/ I always dreamed of interviewing Zoe Jakes. When Kaeshi Chai brought Zoe Jakes and Dalia Carella together for an incredible Bellyqueen belly dance event in New York City titled Zoe Jakes in NYC in October 2024, Kaeshi invited me to moderate a panel discussion titled Moving the Needle Forward – Sharing Our Dance with Wider Audiences. “Join a dynamic conversation with trailblazing artists Zoe Jakes, Dalia Carella, and Kaeshi Chai, moderated by Ailcia Free. These renowned performers will explore innovative ways to bring belly dance to diverse audiences, from mainstream stages to out-of-the box collaborations. Discover how each artist bridges cultural, artistic, and personal expression in their performances, and learn strategies to connect belly dance with new communities. Perfect for dancers, teachers, and enthusiasts eager to expand the reach of this vibrant art form!” I hopped on a bus bound for NYC.  https://bellydancebodyandsoul.com/kaeshi-chai/ Zoe, Kaeshi and Dalia showed great photos while they spoke during the panel. Scroll down to see the photos mentioned in the podcast recording.  https://bellydancebodyandsoul.com/dalia-carella/ Sorry if you need to turn up some parts of the recording to hear the panelists and questions from the audience well. I recorded this old school style with one mic in a dance studio of dancers overlooking Manhattan. The recording turned out pretty good considering I just had a small backpack with me for equipment and everything else needed for the weekend of classes with Zoe, Kaeshi and Dalia. Here we go!  Alicia Introduces the Panel  Welcome to this dynamic conversation with trailblazing artists Zoe Jakes, Dalia Carella, and Kaeshi Chai. I am Alicia Free, host of the Belly Dance Podcast A Little Lighter. I am honored to be here with these renowned performers who will help us explore innovative ways to bring belly dance to diverse audiences, from mainstream stages to out-of-the box collaborations. We’ll discover how each artist bridges cultural, artistic, and personal expression in their performances, and learn strategies to connect belly dance with new communities.  Art forms continuously dance in and out of mainstream culture, and these artists have have brought the dance we love -belly dance- to diverse audiences for decades. We know the value and beauty of our dance, but so many people still do not.  https://bellydancebodyandsoul.com/belly-dance-history-up-to-the-1900s/ And there were peaks of belly dance popularity like the Golden Age of Egyptian film, the 1960s Reda Folk Dance Troupe, Am Cab in NYC and Ren Faires in California.  https://bellydancebodyandsoul.com/history-of-belly-dance-from-1900-1969/ Sha’abi in the 70s, and our panelist Dalia Carella saw belly dance history first hand starting here. https://bellydancebodyandsoul.com/the-history-of-belly-dance-1970s/ Then the 1980s dance exercise craze. And then in the 1990s, big bands start to disappear. Then starting in 2000 Belly Dance Superstars which 2 of our panelists Zoe Jakes and Kaeshi Chai were part of, brought belly dance into giant theaters all over the US. In 2005 there was Shakira’s Hips don’t lie, and then in 2007 the same producer who created Belly Dance Superstars produces Zoe Jakes and Beats Antique. This will be an exciting conversation about the more recent history of belly dance and the inspiring places these amazing dancers think bellydance can and will go.   We will start with the oh-so-loveable Kaeshi Chai… Kaeshi Chai on Collaborating with Partners who Already Have an Audience  Thank you so much, Alicia. I’m so glad you were able to make it. I’ll share with you a little bit about my background just to give you some context, so that you’ll understand how that informs my perspective. And then after that, we’ll go to some takeaways. Maybe you can think about how certain tools and techniques and ideas that I’ve applied to my own journey can be applicable to you. In 2002, Bellyqueen, a trio that formed in 1998, performed in Las Vegas for a six month contract. We had five shows a day. So we had 500 shows and we performed with contortionists and incredible Arabic musicians that recorded with Muhammad Abdel Wahab. We were so spoiled and every day each show had 100 people watching, half of whom were children, in fact. And then we had the opportunity to perform with the Bellydance Superstars and that toured all over the United States and Canada and Europe. And I started a community called PURE. In 2004, we went out into the streets to bring more color to New York City after it was under the shadow of 9/11. And with Pure we also created “A Collection of Beauty Reimagined” which is a theatrical dance show about learning to love yourself even if the media says that beauty fits into a certain box and what you see in the mirror is different from what is in the magazine. And that toured for five years, I went to places like Mexico city and Taiwan and Japan and different parts of America. We would do circle shares where we discuss how each culture is different. And then we would change the show to reflect the people that were in the show and watching the show. So for example, in Mexico, A lot of people suffer from alcoholism, whereas in Japan they suffer from working too hard. In fact, you can die from working too hard. I did not know that until we went to Japan. Then I had the opportunity to tour with Belly Dance Evolution for five years, and we performed in Morocco for the Queen, and that was a really fun, amazing experience. https://bellydancebodyandsoul.com/jillina/ And with Journey Along the Silk Road, this toured from 2009 to 2016. This is from a poster for the show in Australia. We trained 25 dancers in each city and performed in Perth at the Fringe Festival, as well as Brisbane and Sydney. And these are some shots from that. Basically, the story is a princess travels along the Silk Road to collect three magical ingredients to save her mother, who was the empress, and in this fictional story, the queen, Nefertiti, and Hu Zetian, who is the empress of China during its most prosperous period, the Tang Dynasty, they meet each other. So, that was a really amazing show. I also had a chance to perform with Bella Gaia, and that is using massive projections with a live band. And this is from the Miller Theater in Texas, where we perform for thousands of people there. Two years ago, I joined a contemporary dance company in California at the ripe young age of 48. And these dancers are all in their 20s, so I could be their mother. And perform Persian dance at libraries and preschools. And I also got the chance to go into a bunch of preschools in May for Asian American month, and I’ve been working with little kids, which is unexpected. But the gift of what happens when you press a big fat reset button in middle age and you change your environment, like move to California for two years, so you can just change what you do. This was from Ocean Stories. I did this in Australia last year in partnership with different scientists. Jellyfish scientists, marine biologists, bioscientists, and the Exploratorium Museum commissioned me to do a piece about the root system of forests, the mycelium network. This is my passion project, Nature Stories, and I’ve run it eight times this year in California, mostly because I know some scientists and environmental activists out there and we’ve been putting it together. 9 Reasons Why Belly Dance is Amazing 1. Belly Dance Helps Me Feel More Sexy and Connected to my Body Now, some belly dance pros. For me, what attracted me to start it in the first place back in 1996 was I just wanted to feel more sexy and more connected to my body I didn’t actually know very much about it, so it was a draw for me. And if you’re looking at the most popular people on Instagram, A lot of them are very sexy. Right? J. Lo, the Kardashians. So there’s some mass appeal associated with being sexy. 2. Belly Dance Helps with Longevity What I love about our dance form is that, unlike ballet or contemporary, where dancers often retire at age 30, we can keep going, and going, and going. And I, as a producer, I’ve booked dancers like Anahid Sofian, who was in her mid eighties and she’s still performing and teaching. I love that. With our art form, similar to flamenco, you become more comfortable in your own skin as you get older. I don’t think a dancer’s worth is measured by how high she can kick her leg or how many backbends she could do 3. Belly Dance Moves Echo Patterns of Nature The figure eights, the undulations, the spirals, for me, they make me think of sacred geometry and what we see when we look out in the ocean, when we look at a shell, and it’s the perfect vocabulary to use for my passion project, Nature Stories. 4. Belly Dance can be done in a Small Space With our dance form, we just need a little square to stand on and you can express a whole song with your body. Unlike contemporary modern where you need a lot of space. And so, that really opens up a lot of venues. You don’t need as much space to create a show. I have been in communication with the Monterey Bay Aquarium. And they’ve been giving me some Tours of different areas in their space that could be activated with dance. And it’s fine for a belly dancer, but it’s too small for a contemporary dancer. So something to think about. We may edit that out because that’s, I don’t know, it’s more on the DL, not really out in the open. https://youtu.be/1EgxC5d1-oA?si=fua

This interview with Rachel Brice dives deep into recent American belly dance fusion history and fashion. Rachel reminisces about her influencers Suhaila Salimpour, Carolena Nericcio of FatChanceBellyDance® (formerly ATS), and Jill Parker, and opens up about inclusiveness and past mistakes fusing dance forms. It is such an honor and a pleasure to welcome Rachel Brice to A Little Lighter! There is a beautifully written bio of Rachel on https://www.rachelbrice.com/about, so I’m going to share it with you piece by piece as we take a little journey through the career and life of Belly Dance Fusion icon Rachel Brice “Rachel Brice first fell in love with Belly Dance at 16 years old, when she saw a group (who later became Hahbi Ru) at a Renaissance Faire, and started classes immediately. Soon after, she discovered a video of Suhaila Salimpour which she obsessively studied. She began making her living by performing American Cabaret Belly Dance at restaurants and teaching yoga while putting herself through school.” Just BEING Young is Sexy. What Does your Dance Say About you at This Point in Your Life? #1. Let’s pause your bio here. I remember hearing you say something like, “I used to think belly dance wasn’t about being sexy. But come on. Just being young is sexy.” And that really struck me. You and I are just a few years apart in age, and after I heard you say that, I saw dancers in their 20s in a new light. What do you want your dance to say about you at this point in your life and career?  So, I’m challenging a lot of my own BS right now. it’s really easy to have ideas about what something’s gonna be like, when you arrive there. But destinations are rarely like you anticipate they’re gonna be, and that’s how aging has been. When I was younger I thought, women should embrace aging. I feel differently about my appearance. I’m not always proud of the way I feel about it. it’s different than I thought. There is something to be said for having lived through decades. We just need to find a place in our culture that celebrates experience. And I feel like a lot of times there’s this huge rift between older generations and younger generations because both of them are defending themselves instead of the older generations being fascinated and excited about the changes that are happening and the younger generations being excited about what people learned in the past. I think Gen Z’s amazing and I’m super excited by the changes that they’re making. And they seem to be really appreciating elders too. So I think something is on the horizon. For the relationship between younger and older generations. So I’m looking forward to that. Should belly dancers wear bindis? I think that it’s really Gen Z that’s making us realize so much because I’m of the previous generation where when I was dancing in nightclubs and restaurants and meeting people from the Middle East, they were like, wow, how did you get interested in my culture? That’s so cool. And, then their kids come along and are like, wait a minute, you’re gonna make fun of my parents, and then you’re gonna wear a bindi? I don’t think so. So this next generation is speaking up in a way that their parents hadn’t. And I wasn’t there when that shift happened. I was happily on a plane somewhere thinking that opinions are fixed in time and space. And when I started reading, the bindi is a really great example of how many different feelings there are about a cultural object and what that object represents. I mean, there’s no way that you could say that a person from India feels A, B, or C. The bindi is a great example of how many different feelings there are about a cultural object. There are so many different feelings about it. And yeah, so the more I’m learning the more I’m realizing that whatever I do, I need to investigate it and learn enough to where I feel comfortable with doing it, but also still be open to the fact that I could learn more and need to let it go. Here’s the big challenge. Whatever I do, I need to learn enough to either feel comfortable doing it, or let it go. You know, as long as I’m more interested or as interested in how my actions affect other people as I am in how they feel about me I think that there’s the opportunity to learn. If I am genuinely interested in how my actions affect others, there’s an opportunity to learn. If I am defensive, I lose that opportunity. But if I’m defending myself like we’re gonna do, then I lose that opportunity. So, yeah, I sure hope that I find something that I feel is a respectful homage that brings people together that I’m as in love with as I was with some of the previous incarnations of the dance that I was doing. Cuz man, I had so much fun. It’s so much fun. I loved it so much and I still love it, but I just haven’t found the pants that fit, I guess. Most Belly Dance Venues Have Disappeared, and Now we Dance for Each Other. #2. I interviewed Suhaila Salimpour on this podcast back episodes 38 and 44, and we talked about the history of belly dance and where we are now. What are some of the best changes you have seen in belly dance since you started dancing in the 90s?   I think my answer’s gonna be less about the actual dance and more about the community, I think because of the loss of so many venues. We don’t have the same kind of Middle Eastern restaurants in America that we did before 9/11. The community has really decided to keep it going through all of these festivals and theater shows. And in a lot of cases, it’s dancers dancing for each other and, maybe you get five or six husbands or boyfriends or kids that were dragged there. But, generally speaking, instead of us dancing for non-dancers the way it was in the eighties and before, we’re really doing a lot for one another. And it’s a testament to how much we love this dance. No audience. Fine. We’ll do it for each other then. And I think that’s pretty amazing that we’ve figured out a way to keep it going. The Big Belly Dance Bands Have Dissolved. #3. I believe you are a person who fully embraces your shadow self, so I think you will also appreciate this question. What are some of the unfortunate ways you have seen belly dance change since you started dancing in the 90s?  One thing for sure that I really miss is the large number of musicians hanging out on a regular basis and playing music together. In the Bay Area in the late nineties when I went to school for dance ethnology at San Francisco State, one of the awesome extras that I didn’t expect when I moved there was that I would meet this large group of people that not only hung out all the time but were constantly learning and growing and striving to be better. And I learned so much about practice from these people. One of my favorite things was that Tobias Roberson, who was my boyfriend at the time, had created this life where he would play music all day, then he would teach, and then he would do gigs. And when he was hired to play a show people were just basically seeing him do what he did all the time anyway. https://open.spotify.com/track/6NhzQCKIztsUWo7q2EMf91?si=3d4894ec24ca4e23 And I remember thinking that that was such a huge difference. Rather than practicing for a show, I felt like people got to see a snippet of his life and he didn’t have to prepare for his show because he was always playing for hours. I had such a struggle with practice. But I started to develop a practice at that time as a result of hanging out with him. And their bar for excellence was so high. And they were constantly playing music togethers like Dan Cantrell of The Toids, and Peter Jakes of Brass Menagerie and a whole crew of people that were just constantly playing music together. https://bellydancebodyandsoul.com/belly-dancing-to-live-music-tips/ And so the people I was doing shows with were also my best friends, and that was an amazing time, and I really miss that. And are small pockets of musicians, but because dancers use recorded music so much you know, they don’t get a chance to work as much as they would like to. And so they have to turn their attention to real pursuits and there’s not as many musicians out there, so there’s not as many people seeing the music and getting bitten by the bug. And it was a romantic time that I hope can have a resurgence at some point just because it’s so enjoyable to have a community like that. When Rachel Brice Belly Danced in Clubs… When I started dancing in clubs. I learned what works for dancers that are established in a club and what doesn’t work. And the first thing that doesn’t work is not meeting the dancers before you go to the owner, as you can imagine. Meet the other dancers in the club before you go to the owner. Once I moved to the Bay Area I went to the dancers and said: Hey, if you ever need a sub, you know, I would love to sub. And next thing you know, they’re calling me all the time. I don’t wanna go in, will you dance for me? And then I ended up being really good friends with the dancers and loving my relationship with them as much, if not more than the actual experience of performing for the audience. And Nanna Candelaria, who became a dear friend of mine, was telling me that back in the day, what she started, cuz she had been dancing for like 25 years. When I met her, she said when she started, the dancers used to put cigarette burn holes in each other’s costumes. https://youtu.be/dWrr6AknDG4 They were trying to take each other down and it did not feel like that at all. We would hang out, we’d drink wine, we’d laugh, and next thing you know, we’d go collaborate for fun for some show outside of the restaurant. It was a great experience. But that was also because the owner of that restaurant was a lovely person. Culture is often built from the top down. So if you have a good restaurant owner, you’re gonna have a good time. Suhaila Salimpour, Carolena Nericcio and Jill Parker’s influence on Rachel Brice #4. A decade after you started dancing, you discovered Carolena Nericcio’s Fa

Most dance in our era is performative, but dance can do so much more. Harlem High School Assistant Principle and dance teacher Kierra talks about dances for healing, transformation, connection, and acceptance. Alicia Free: Kierra Foster-Ba is a Body Wisdom Coach and New York City dancer who has done some deep work, and her presence is a gift. I am so excited to share Kierra’s voice with you! Kierra dances with Kaeshi Chai and PURE (Public Urban Ritual Experiment) an international organization of artists devoted to using belly dance to promote peace and end suffering. I met Kierra when I was running around wildly putting on a show with Kaeshi. I was hosting 10 performers, managing our band Taksim Ithaca, dancing with the band Beatbox Guitar, coordinating volunteers, buying and hauling concessions up the elevator, and trying to take care of my 3 and 5 year old kiddos at the same time. It was a little intense the way I did it.  When Kierra smiled at me, calm washed over my body. I needed that!  After the show, we took a workshop together with other dancers, writing our intentions in the water in the creek near my home. Letting the water heal us. It was so magical. After that experience opened me up, Kierra mentioned a dance-based meditation practice that she teaches. I relaxed into the most incredible hug with Kierra, and I wanted to know more about how she has cultivated this energy that shines through her. I wanted to share it with you.   Kierra dances for human liberation. She helps us tap into the wisdom of our bodies with dance. To practice deep permission and acceptance. Giving us permission to be both graceful and graceless.  https://youtu.be/30a85_R_XGE https://youtu.be/uyhs2mNLgyA?t=92 https://youtu.be/qm0cM2fa1ik Let’s start with the 5Rhythms classes that you’ve been offering in New York City since 2008. Tell us about that Kierra 5Rhythms classes in New York City since 2008 Okay. So I just want to back up a little bit if that’s okay. Cause there are some people who might not be familiar with the 5Rhythms. So I want to give a little bit of a history of the 5Rhythms. Gabrielle Roth is the founder of this body of work, and she really was one of the pioneers. Some people say she was the originator. There’s some conflict about that. As it always is, there’s more than one person who’s pursuing something at the same time as someone else. But she definitely was one of the pioneers of what we now call conscious dance. Sometimes people call it ecstatic dance. In fact, many people who’ve gone on to create their own bodies of work came through her lineage. And so what I know of her story is that she is someone who was a classically trained dancer, and so that informed how she looked at the world and how she observed people. She definitely observed movement, and I like to think of her as a really powerful detective of the heart because she was able to see what was being communicated in the movement. And as I said, she was a classically trained dancer. Something happened so that she wasn’t going to pursue that as a profession. And so she began to be offered dance related work and all kinds of venues, you know, everything from asylums where people were working through breaks in their psyche to work at Esalen when Esalen was just being founded as this community center for exploration and healing. 5 Qualities of Movement: Flowing, Staccato, Chaotic, Lyrical, Stillness And so what she discovered is that all movement can be broken down to five specific qualities. Movement is either flowing, meaning it’s continuous. One part of the movement is flowing into the next part. It’s flowing. Or it’s staccato, meaning that it’s segmented. It’s very clear. Often there’s a repeated pattern, so you can see, like boom, boom, boom. Boom, boom, boom. Boom, boom, boom. That would be staccato, right? It’s percussive, it’s clear, it’s directional. Or movement can be chaotic, you know, just flailing. It could be continuous and staccato at the same time, or there can be this light, effortless quality to the movement. And that would be the fourth rhythm, the rhythm of lyrical. And the fifth and final rhythm is the rhythm of stillness. And it’s the idea that the dance movement is equally as internal as it is external an expression. So something is happening. And that’s why it’s a meditative practice because when you do the practice. By the time you get to stillness, you really do feel emptied out. We call it a wave. You started out flowing. Grounding. It started to get percussive. Maybe a little bit more energetic. The high point would be chaos. When you’re just letting it all go, whatever is in you that’s ready to be released, you are letting it go. And then after that cathartic movement you do just naturally, and there are physiological reasons for why you feel that -which I’ll talk about a little in a minute- you do feel this sense of ease and lightness, lyrical. And then when you get to stillness, you feel emptied out. And so that still voice that maybe you don’t always listen to sort of bubbling up from the deepest, wisest part of yourself you now have access to in a different way. I say that she’s brilliant for so many reasons, but one reason why I say that she’s a detective is because there are physiological reasons for why this works. For one thing each of the rhythms has what she called the gateway or the primary body part that is kind of instigating the movement. So when you’re in flowing, it’s your feet and it’s the idea of getting as far away from your head as possible, which would be your feet really dropping down into your most instinctual animal self. Then when you get into staccato, it’s the center of the body, primarily the hips. When you get to chaos, it’s the head. And in your neck, you have powerful glands that pump you with endorphins. So when you start moving your neck and not keeping it straight the way that we normally do, you stimulate those glands. So on the one hand you are shaking it all out, so you’re resetting your nervous system, which all mammals have access to do. If you’ve ever seen a mammal that was frightened, and then in order to help themselves get over it, what they do is they start to just shake and that resets the nervous system. So we have the opportunity to reset our nervous systems when we tremble and shake out, but we also are flooding ourselves with endorphins so that the release of whatever it is, frustration, rage, grief, actually after it’s done feels really good to us. And so then when we’re in lyrical, there starts to be this ethereal quality where you almost feel that powerful connection that you have with all that is. And then of course, you go into stillness, which is the place where you can actually get answers to questions you didn’t know that you had, which is often how I experienced stillness. You know, sadly it’s never the winning lotto number. Okay. But you know, it’s like all of a sudden something that in the background of my mind, I wasn’t even allowing myself to be conscious of, like a minor worry. All of a sudden the solution is just right there. I didn’t even ask the question. And the solution is right there. Yeah, when we get still, that’s what happens. So that’s the 5Rhythms. Taking the 5Rhythms in a Gym https://youtu.be/0Ge29tf2DJ0 What happened was, I was at a gym where my first 5Rhythms teacher, who was an amazingly brilliant soul it was a gym and God bless her, but she offered the 5Rhythms in a gym. And it takes a lot of courage because you’re asking people to dance like no one’s looking, but everybody’s looking. Think about most gyms. This is a gym, you know, two of the walls are glass. People are looking in, they’re waiting for their class to begin. They’re like, “What the hell are those people doing?” But somehow she created a space where we were able to just go for it. So I’m a pretty literal thinker, so I took it as playing. I was like, oh my God. The teacher said, ” Be a circle.” I’m a circle. I’m a circle. The teacher said, “Shake it.” Oh, I’m a washing machine. I’m shaking it oo. Okay. So I was just having fun, you know, like my inner five year old was like, Oh my God, this is great. And one day I was just shaking like a washing machine. And the next thing I know I was so filled with like rage and grief simultaneously. And I’m shaking and my teacher just said, “Keep moving, Kierra, keep moving.” And then I got down on the floor and I was rolling around on the floor, like just shaking and moving and crying and raging, and then it was gone. So, I don’t know to this day what caused it. But there was something in my muscle memory. There’s something about the position that I got myself in that clearly my animal self had a memory about and it was not a good one. But whatever it was left me. I didn’t even need to understand it. It just bubbled up, it got released. And this euphoric sensation, this understanding of how I am part of a whole. I am not alone. I have never been alone. I am part of a whole. I am connected with all that is, and all that will be. This very profound sense washed over me. And after that I was hooked. Alicia: I just got these waves of just like chills all over my body. I watched this video, Kierra Were you dancing rage or anger? Yes, I was. https://youtu.be/7Radhvvoryc Alicia: I couldn’t stop watching it. You were just so honest with your movement. Like yeah. Wow. Thank you for explaining that. And I’ve heard of Ecstatic dance. I’ve been to Ecstatic dance parties, but I didn’t understand the origin until now. Like I didn’t know where any of that came from. Yeah. And so I might be kind of jumping ahead. But in your introduction of me, you talked about that I believe that this is a path -one of many, I’m not saying this is the only path- but one path for human liberation. Why? Why could dance be a path of human liberation, especially for us as modern humans? Okay. Well, because we have evolved, especially those of us in the West, with a lot of restric

Salit of NYC on the sisterhood of belly dancers, the politics that divide our community of Arabic music lovers, and how focusing on our belly dance technique rather than our appearance brings us more happiness. Salit (Sal-eet) started belly dancing in Israel when she was 21, and she did not expect it to become her profession and the foundation for her own bellydance school! I met Salit at Art of the Belly when I took a super fun cane dancing class from her. I love her sass when she dances, as well as her commitment to authenticity and the sisterhood she has created with other dancers.  https://youtu.be/3Dhhn_SKAVE   Salit on Youtube Alicia: Let’s start with sisterhood. Please tell us about Sheba.  Sheba stands for the Sisterhood of Eclectic Belly Dance Arts. Sheba is all about community as well as technique, history, culture, musicality, improvisation, and giving confidence to our sisters. We have classes together and take class trips. We perform for each other at our own events and perform at other events. It’s all about the fun. Sheba on Facebook Sheba on Instagram Sheba on Youtube Alicia: You describe belly dance as the epitome of femininity with movements that emphasize every curve in the body in a soft, yet powerful way. You have also said that you were more of a tom boy when you were younger. Identity is powerful! It can be hard for us to do something that we believe goes against our identity. Do you remember what attracted you to belly dance?  I remember Arabic film Friday in Israel. What stood out to me the most was the power of a dancer to just stand still and do nothing, and be so amazing. To express so much with so little movement. To stand still but be so energetic. I have never seen that freedom in another art form. Alicia: Are there any Israeli dancers that are famous in Egypt or through history that have been famous in Egypt? Not Israeli, there are Jewish dancers, but Egyptian Jewish. It’s problematic as you can imagine to be accepted as an Israeli and Arab countries. So, no. Alicia: On your website Shebadance.com in your bio, you wrote that when you were younger you took ballet, and wrote that you hated putting your hair up in a bun and wrapping it in a hair net. I feel the same way! I want my hair to do its own dance too. You also wrote that you felt like your movements were too heavy for ballet. But heavy sounds perfect for stomping a dabke! You love to lead dabke, and you do it beautifully and with passion. It was so much fun to be pulled into your dabke to a live band at Art of the Belly and snake through the room in a line of dancers, holding hands. What are some ways we can learn how to do dabke with energy similar to how they do it at gatherings in the Middle East?  So definitely it’s great for that for dabke, actually. Yes, there’s a lot of stomping, but there’s a lot of very quick footwork and jumping, which you actually need to be very light on your feet for. So I was very bad at footwork before. So I had to work on that a lot and condition my body. It was hard, but definitely worth it because now I really feel like I’m flying. So I have that heaviness, but when I step back I need some of the lightness. Where is Dabke Originally From? Dabke is originally from the military showing their pride in their victories. Mostly for men. So the main characteristic of dabke is pride. Hold the upper body really tall and open and strong, and keep that energy up very strong and held and proud. That’s the key. Alicia: So it’s really big in Eastern Europe, right? In the Balkans they do line dance. Is there crossover? Did it come from one spot? Did all line dances come from the military?  There are a lot of line dances in many different cultures. It is really interesting that dabke and Irish dancing are very similar, I’m not sure how that came about. It could be a coincidence, could be not. Specifically Levantine style line dance. So Egyptians don’t do this kind of line dance. They have saidi, which they’re proud of but it’s a different feel. The Levant is Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Palestine, technically Israel is not included in that. But that area. What do you usually hold when you do a Dabke? You hold the whole hand of the person next to you. When you lead a dabke you hold a masbha. And it’s originally prayer beads. That’s what people hold. This one that I’m holding up I made this with the troupe leader that I’m in. It’s made of his old t-shirts , which he assured me were clean before we did this. So, I guess this is common to improvise. This masbha has red, green and white colors, which are Lebanon colors. Alicia: Oh, it actually has a handle on it. And then it has a little weight on the end so that it spins well, is that what’s going on? Yes, it’s just a lot of tape. It’s very improvised. Alicia: Is that something people would put in their purse before they go to a party? Or do people carry those to a place where they’re going to line dance?  I’m not sure, but I think Muslims generally just have prayer beads on them. That’s what they use. They use prayer beads for dabke. It’s part the culture. Part of the patriotism. Religion and the land usually go hand in hand. Danceable Song: Ali Gara by Sayed Balaha https://open.spotify.com/track/6Qxe17yNxxG1KkYbdp9xf8?si=8af383bb740141be This is an instrumental version of “What Happened to Me” It’s different. It’s very classical and pleasant to dance to. Alicia: Was there a key moment when you realized you want to focus on teaching Egyptian style belly dance?  https://youtu.be/GhvCRtbLlog I don’t really see myself teaching a purely Egyptian Style. My base is very Egyptian, but I always have to add my own from what I have learned, observed and feel. Sometimes I’ll add a fan veil, or flamenco, or even elements of Halloween. Where does the term Oriental Dance come from with Belly Dance? Alicia: You have stopped using the term “Oriental” when you talk about belly dance. Can you tell us more about that? Oriental has always bothered me, especially in America when it is used to describe Asian people. Why do some say “Oriental” instead of “belly dance”? But “belly dance” can be associated with prostitution. So we find other terms that sound more elegant, more sophisticated. So I understand that, but for my research, “Oriental” is a colonizing, derogatory, racist term that was created to separate us from them. So “Us” being the sophisticated superior civilized West, which is primarily Britain and France, and “Them” as often referred to the inferior, primitive, barbaric, uneducated East. Let me read you a quick quote from Edward Said’s book “Orientalism”, a very important book. “The Orient was almost a European invention, and had been since antiquity a place of romance, exotic beings, haunting memories and landscapes, remarkable experiences.” So to me, referring to this dance as Oriental is fetishizing and exotifying and dehumanizing. In a way it’s like people over in the orient are not real people. It’s this fantasy land with fantasy people. And if they’re not real people, we don’t have to treat them with the same respect. And I am real. I am not a fairy, I’m not a mermaid. I’m not a fantasy. It’s great to be creative and to take on different characters and play around with. But at the end of the day, it has to be a character. It can’t be the person. We’re still human beings. And I put a lot of emphasis on presenting how real I am personally. So it’s very important for me to present another perspective, something for people to think about. I’m not telling anyone what to do. Or to completely change their minds. I want to just have them go and continue researching. and just question, why do we use this term? Why do we think that this colonizing term is better than that colonizing term? Maybe we should use another term. At least the term “belly dance” is descriptive to me. And it is not just about a specific place. What we present in this dance now is very far from the origin. There’s a new dance style that deserves it’s own name. Even “Raqs Sharqi”, meaning dance East, is somewhat related to colonizing. Even just Raqs is in Arabic, and this dance is not only done by Arabic speakers. When the Egyptians and the teachers use the word “Oriental,” I think they are using it to elevate the art. But if people of “the orient” see themselves as inferior to European culture and because of this add ballet steps to belly dance. Add more European elements to the costuming, then… What Happens When Arab Audiences Find Out you are Israeli? So I started belly dance when I was 21 and then maybe two years later, I moved here (to New York City). So I didn’t really work as a dancer in Israel. I was still kind of a beginner so when I started working in New York, and I didn’t think it would be a problem to tell people I’m Israeli. I was never ashamed of it. I’m not ashamed of it. It’s just where I happened to be born. And that’s how I was raised. And it’s a part of who I am. And even though I knew there was some issue with a conflict, maybe Arabs will not accept it. I still wasn’t afraid to say I was Israeli. And then little by little people started telling me “You can’t say that, or people will not work with you.” And then I noticed, for example, I danced to this Egyptian restaurant and as I mentioned, I love Egyptian style. So I was like, yes, I can really be myself, hardcore Egyptian music and dance, and they’re gonna love it. And they appreciated the music choice, and they appreciated my dance. And they got up and danced with me and everybody was happy. This guy was dancing with me and then he started talking to me in Arabic afterwards, which was very flattering. He thought I was Egyptian, but then he said, “Where are you from?” And I said, “From Israel.” And then I saw his face just drop. It was like, oh, thank you. And he walked away. A second ago you were so happy, but then if I’m in Israeli, you’re not happy anymore. But you enjoyed my dance, so what does it matter? And that’s the exper

Dr. Valerie Poppel, aka Nefertiti of Delaware, is a Clinical Sexologist and belly dancer who lived in Cairo. Find out what Nef warned about Soul Ties when she was featured in Cosmo yet again and how shimmying can improve our sexual health. Imagine a gorgeous brown-skinned dancer flecked in gold taking the stage with yellow isis wings unfurled. When she opens her arms and looks up, it’s like the sun is pouring into her soul. On her face, ecstasy. She dances and shines. At one point, she looks into the back of the audience and beckons. A fully-costumed dancer emerges and joins her on stage. And then another, and another. Each uniquely beautiful and proudly honoring the one who invited them there, Nefertiti.  That was my experience at the Art of the Belly Dance Festival on the ocean in Maryland when I saw our guest Nefertiti perform. This is going to be an incredible interview. Not only are we talking to an amazing passionate dancer who lived in Cairo for years and has danced all over the world, Nefertiti is also a clinical sexoligist who has been featured in Cosmo not one, but 2 times. And she hosts a radio show about sexual health and relationships called Brown Sugar Confessions. So we are all in for a treat! Thank you so much for being here with us Nefertiti, aka Dr. Valerie Poppel.  I was so excited to hear that you were recently featured in Cosmo, and when I asked you about the article, you said it’s about tarab. Can you tell us more about that?  Creating Ecstacy, Tarab and Soul Ties in Belly Dance In a moment of ecstacy, as dancers we draw our audiences into us. So that’s what the article mentioned. Soul ties. When you’re performing be very mindful of soul tie connections with people. As a dancer, I’m always trying to get that energy connection with the audience. I have caught the eye of a young man in the audience, and he stalked me. Some people receive your gift of dance in a way that is not intended. When you are dancing and giving your energy, being mindful of looking at someone to the point that you are looking into their soul and creating that tie. How can you create ecstacy?  And what does that look like on stage? How do we take away the mystery of tarab and how we can see ourselves? Hooray for the first Black Belly Dance Bundle! I am so excited to start scheduling my pre-recorded classes with Chudney, Lady Liquid, Ebony Qualls, Danielle Hutton and more fabulous dancers who are part of that. And you are going to teach about the pelvic floor in a lecture called “To tuck or not to tuck”. Can you give us a little preview of that lecture?  Should we Tuck or Not Tuck our Pelvis? What do Dancers Need to Know About our Pelvic Floor? https://youtu.be/B89Wwt7ajEU?t=130 It is important to understand what the pelvic floor supports, how it changes as we age, and posture. Is the tuck good for dancers? Where did it originate? Is it beneficial as we are dancing? What does a strong pelvic floor look like on a dance body? How do we strengthen the pelvic floor with belly dance? Sit down on the floor and do an Egyptian shimmy while doing Kegels. You can stand and shimmy and do kegels too. Having a strong pelvic floor is important to have longevity in the dance. Your interview on the Ask me Anything series with Sara Shrapnell was amazing.  You talked a little about teaching belly dance to people with sexual concerns. One highlight is where you spoke about the kinds of orgasms and how to structure your shimmy to orgasm while you shimmy. You’ve gotta tell us more about that.  You can Orgasm While you Shimmy My husband loves when I dance for him. No need to do your hair or makeup. If you choose to dance for your partner and release energy, why not? You can use belly dance as therapy, and get in touch with your body and get grounded. Moving your pelvis has been known to help women have a higher drive for sex if they are suffering from low desire. We are often skittish about talking about the sensual part of belly dance. But it is quite beautiful. And you teach about Tantra, which I heard you say can teach you how to breathe through an orgasm. I never realized before that we generally stop breathing when we orgasm! You said that breathing through it can elongate and deepen orgasms, and can lead to mutiple orgasims. 15 orgasms in one session sometimes. Yes this is a belly dance podcast, but this shit is important! What should we know about this?  Breathe all the Way Down to your Pelvic Floor Tantra became very big in what late eighties, when Sting spoke about six hours of orgasms. I was like, that’s a lot of orgasms Sting. And many people got on the tantra bandwagon wanting to learn, wanting to prolong release of orgasmic energy. I’m a tantra specialist. I teach tantra all over the world. And one of the benefits of tantra, and not to mention the. connecting of your partner, is the ability to breathe through your orgasmic energy release. Oftentimes we choose to hold our breath. If you think about your own release of energy, when you’re in that state of ecstacy, you might tend to hold your breath. That’s why they call it the little death, because you stop breathing. And the tantra principle is about breathing all the way through to your pelvic floor all the way out to elongate the orgasmic release. To have a deeper orgasm by breathing through it and not holding the breath. So there are a lot of benefits. Not only to your relationship, but also to the release of energy when you understand and practice tantra. How important the breath is in every part of our life and breath is important. When you dance, of course, and it’s important during sex. A beautiful way of connecting with your partner when you’re able to release the energies together and using the breath control. Using Tantra kiss to elongate it even further. So there’s so many modalities of understanding how energy and breath works when you’re releasing orgasmic energy and the world of tantra. So I advise anyone that’s listening to this podcast that may have questions, just reach out to me. I’m more than happy to answer them and to help you out. www.swanncenter.com If you are listening and you are like, sex coaching? I need that. I want to let you know that Nefertiti is also known as Dr. Valerie Poppel, and she does that! Coaching online and in person on low sexual confidence, no orgasms, porn addicition, early ejaculation, sexual shame, sexual identity and more incredibly important topics that help us become fully expressed humans!  It is a natural part of our self-expression and our love center. And I hope people, maybe not in my lifetime but one day, we’ll get comfortable with understanding that energy force and how valuable and beautiful it is when you’re connecting with someone from your heart center. Sex coaching is a small portion of what I do in the world of clinical sexology. At the Swann Center we also do sexual researcher, sexual science studies. I’m affiliated with many universities and affiliates all over the world where I work with understanding sexual medicines doing a research around the pharmaceutical industry. So I often tell people that the field of sexual health is growing and emerging. In Europe is quite large and the US it is still quite small. And we also run a clinical sexology certification program for those that choose to work in the field of sexual health and sexual wellness. And it’s about a one-year program that someone can take it. Even  MDs come take this course to continue their education. It is also for those that actually want to get certified as a clinical sexologist. So yeah. Check it out and reach out to me. In this country I hope we get away from the shame and guilt around pleasure. You can hear more on Brown Sugar Confessions on youtube.  You are based in Delaware, and you have danced and instructed on all 7 continents. When we were scheduling this interview, you were on your way to Tahiti. The photos you and your partner posted were stunning. And the photos of how your body was painted on Bora Bora by world champion body painters. Whoa. I had to show Jill Parker those photos because I was overwhelmed with how goddamn cool you are. Many of us would not have the confidence to be painted topless even by skilled artists, especially after our 20s. You went for it. You already are a work of art, and you became another stunning work of art brushed with paint. Can you tell us about that experience?  What it was Like to Get Painted by Award Winning Body Paint Artists? I follow Scott Fray and Madelyn Greco. They’re five time world champion body painters, some of the best in the world. I have followed them for many years and they were in Bora Bora, and I had asked to have my body painted. And they said, what do you want Val? And I’m like, oh, just do whatever. Well they kept painting and before you know it, they did my whole upper body. And it was absolutely amazing. And by the time they were done they did the Kundalini rising, which is a tantra. And my stomach and they also did the Pharos on my chest and paint. And they had no idea my connection to Egypt. So it was a really, fascinating experience with them because they don’t know me and they painted my life on my body. And I thought it was quite beautiful and it lasted for three days, they seal it on your body. I was their muse. Nefertiti on Instagram https://www.livingbrush.com/information/181-2/ You founded Jewels of the Orient Bellydance & Wellness Festival, Sambabelly ™ Fitness, Belly dancers of Color Magic Group & MENAHT dancers of color wellness & dance retreat. You have created so much Nefertiti! Can you tell us some of the impacts of these projects, and some highlights that make you proud?   I started Jewels of the Orient when I moved back from the Middle East. I really admire Aida Nour of the Nile Group. I wanted to bring this energy back to the US. I wanted to bring 1-2 international stars, local stars, and rising stars. We had opportunities for dancers to get feedback from judge