Impact Pricing

Ryan Doran is a Partner in Lead Creative and Head of UI/UX for Turkois, with over 17 years of experience in monetization strategy, payments, and scaling technology businesses.  Danny Smith is a Solution Architect at Stripe, working on AI-driven commerce innovations and partnering with AWS. In this episode, Ryan and Danny explore the critical intersection of pricing strategy and payment infrastructure, discussing how AI is transforming both the mechanics of pricing implementation and the challenge of pricing AI products themselves.   Why you have to check out today's podcast: Understand the difference between billing systems and payment systems and how they work together. Learn why flexible technical infrastructure is essential for modern pricing strategies. Discover how AI is enabling hyper-personalized shopping experiences with built-in guardrails.   "Your pricing strategy is only as good as the background tech that you have to operationalize it. If you have a legacy monolithic stack and you can come up with these great strategies, but it takes you six months to implement that strategy, then you've probably been left behind already." – Danny Smith   Topics Covered: 02:15 - How Ryan got into pricing through product development and payment flows. 04:30 - Danny's journey from cloud architecture to payments infrastructure. 06:45 - The difference between billing systems and payment systems. 10:20 - Why new billing companies continue to emerge despite established players. 14:15 - How AI is accelerating data utilization in pricing decisions. 17:30 - The dual challenge: using AI for pricing vs. pricing AI products. 19:45 - Hyper-personalized shopping with AI agents and built-in guardrails. 23:10 - The ethical concerns of "sleazy price segmentation" and AI pricing. 28:40 - Agent-to-agent negotiations and policy engines. 31:20 - How AI products are changing pricing models: tokens, credits, and hybrid approaches. 35:15 - Creating "action units" to translate technical complexity into business value.   Key Takeaways: "Data is basically the new margin. What you can do with it is only gaining in value." - Ryan Doran "We've implemented API level technology that will create a budget... and it will create a virtual debit card on the backend for that exact amount, tied to today as an expiration date, tied to that particular transaction." - Danny Smith   People / Resources Mentioned: Turkois: https://turkois.io/ Vanilla POS: https://vanillapos.io/ Stripe: https://stripe.com Perplexity: https://www.perplexity.ai/ OpenAI: https://openai.com/ Chargebee, Chargeify, Zora: Alternative billing platforms MCP Server: Technology enabling AI agents to interact with Stripe for dynamic pricing   Connect with Ryan Doran: Website: https://turkois.io/ Email: ryan@turkois.io   Connect with Danny Smith: Contact through Ryan Doran   Connect with Mark Stiving: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/ Email: mark@impactpricing.com  

Ian Clark runs Crescendo Consulting, helping companies monetize AI features. He's advised leadership teams on packaging, pricing metrics, and outcome-based models. And of course, he performed his obligatory stint at Simon Kutcher Partners. In this episode, Ian challenges common misconceptions about AI pricing, explaining why cost-plus pricing is still wrong even with variable AI costs, how to choose the right pricing metrics beyond tokens, and why outcome-based pricing isn't the silver bullet many believe it to be.   Why you have to check out today's podcast:  Understand why AI costs shouldn't drive your pricing strategy, even when margins drop below traditional SaaS levels.  Learn how to identify pricing metrics that correlate with willingness to pay rather than falling into the token-based pricing trap. Discover why outcome-based pricing for AI faces fundamental attribution problems that make it less viable than expected.   "The best way to get willingness-to-pay data and to understand where the value of your product comes from is by doing customer interviews, not the testing, not the data, customer interviews."  – Ian Clark   Topics Covered: 02:59 - Monetizing AI vs. SaaS. The surprising similarities between AI and SaaS pricing, and why cost-plus pricing remains a bad idea even with AI's variable costs. 05:17 - Pricing Strategy in AI.The gross margin threshold where revenue-optimizing and margin-optimizing prices diverge (50-60%), plus the potato chip pricing thought experiment. 09:35 - AI Pricing Strategies.Why token-based pricing is problematic and how to find the right pricing metric that correlates with willingness to pay. 12:24 - Pricing Strategies for AI Tools.Real-world case study of sales enablement AI: choosing between user-based vs. usage-based pricing based on wallet size indicators. 16:27 - Outcomes-based Pricing Skepticism.The attribution problem with outcomes-based pricing and why it's harder to implement than it appears, using grocery shrinkage AI as an example. 20:11 - Outcome-based Pricing for AI. Sierra's "resolved conversations" model critique and the ethics of incentivizing AI agents vs. human labor. 24:03 - Pricing and Value Creation.The three-layer value framework: actual economic value → perceived value → willingness to pay, accounting for risk, timing, and budget constraints. 26:39 - 10% Rule in Pricing Strategy.Debunking the "charge 10% of value created" rule with Y Combinator math showing how small variations (9X vs 11X) can dramatically impact company survival. 30:31 - Customer Interviews for Pricing Insights.Why customer interviews beat data analysis and A/B testing for understanding willingness to pay and pain points.   Key Takeaways: "We have known for a very long time that cost-plus pricing is a really bad idea. And it's not the case that now suddenly that we have AI, now suddenly it's a good idea." - Ian Clark "So the 10x rule, it's great, but it's just woefully insufficient. Why not 11x? Why not 9x? You actually don't know." - Ian Clark "One thing that we like to say about pricing and monetization is that people think it's like architecture, but it really should be like gardening." - Ian Clark   People / Resources Mentioned: Simon Kutcher Partners: https://www.simon-kucher.com/en Alpine Investors: https://alpineinvestors.com/ James Wilton: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamesdwilton/ Sierra: https://sierra.ai/ Fin AI: https://fin.ai/ Y Combinator: https://www.ycombinator.com/ McKinsey: https://www.mckinsey.com/   Connect with Ian Clark: Website: https://crescendo.consulting LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ian-harrison-clark/ Email: ian@crescendo.consulting   Connect with Mark Stiving: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/ Email: mark@impactpricing.com  

This is an Impact Pricing Blog published on July 21, 2025, turned into an audio podcast so you can listen on the go. Read Full Article Here: https://impactpricing.com/blog/why-empathy-is-your-most-underrated-pricing-tool/ If you have any feedback, definitely send it. You can reach us at mark@impactpricing.com.  Now, go make an impact.   Connect with Mark Stiving: Email: mark@impactpricing.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/  

Ton Dobbe is the founder of Value Inspiration, helping SaaS companies transform from commoditized to remarkable. He's the author of The Remarkable Effect, where he explores what makes products stand out and command premium prices. And he's a keynote speaker and podcast host himself. In this episode, Ton shares his insights on how SaaS companies can escape the commodity trap and command premium pricing by focusing on their unique approach to solving customer problems, rather than just features and functions.   Why you have to check out today's podcast: Learn how to identify and articulate the real problems your customers face that keep them awake at night. Discover why competing on your approach rather than features is the key to premium pricing. Understand how guarantees and risk reduction can justify higher prices and improve your entire business operation.   "Start thinking about what you do and why customers would pay a premium for that. And if you cannot answer that, there's work to do. It's a very simple question. What would it take for people to start paying a premium for it?" – Ton Dobbe   Topics Covered: 02:37 – Startup failure and value proposition: Why 75% of software scalers fail despite achieving product-market fit and how the inability to market at appropriate value becomes their downfall  04:07 – Value is a story: Ton's definition of value as "a story in the head of a customer" versus Mark's "result of solving problems" and how perception drives pricing acceptance  09:28 – Value pricing and guarantees: How adding guarantees reduces customer fear of making mistakes and enables premium pricing, plus the psychology behind buyer decision-making 12:33 – Guaranteeing results for customers: The insurance model approach to guarantees and how implementation success creates win-win scenarios for both vendor and customer 15:28 – Competing on approach, not features: Why software companies must differentiate based on their unique approach to solving problems rather than feature comparisons with competitors  19:09 – Secret sauce for ideal customers: Ton's 12-step "pressure cooker" process for identifying your value foundation and connecting company knowledge to customer segments  22:11 – Ideal customer segmentation benefits: How focusing on perfect-fit customers accelerates sales cycles, increases win rates, stops discounting, and improves every business function  27:59 – The value of AI solutions: Why companies fail when they position themselves as "AI-powered" instead of focusing on the specific problems their AI capabilities solve 30:39 – Premium pricing strategies: The fundamental question every company must answer - why would customers pay a premium for what you do, and what would it take to achieve that?   Key Takeaways: "Value is a story in the head of a customer. When I say to you, for example, this is 30,000 US dollars. Some people will say, that's expensive. And other people will say, that's a bargain. And the difference is how well you communicate the value in a way that clicks with them." – Ton Dobbe "The moment you can add something like a guarantee or like a reliable promise to that, you can even charge more on pricing because it takes a lot of objections away around the fear of messing up." – Ton Dobbe "If you compete on a feature function level, everybody will lose. So you have to make a choice, are we going to compete on the feature function level or are we going to compete on something else?" – Ton Dobbe "The moment you get that idea in their head, this is the choice and they're gonna solve my problem better than anyone else. They're gonna give me more value than anyone else. Well, why should I even start talking about discounts?" – Ton Dobbe   People / Resources Mentioned: The Jolt Effect (book on buyer indecision) Christian Owens, CEO of Paddle   Connect with Ton Dobbe: Website: https://valueinspiration.com Book: https://theremarkableeffect.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tondobbe/    Connect with Mark Stiving: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/ Email: mark@impactpricing.com  

This is an Impact Pricing Blog published on July 14, 2025, turned into an audio podcast so you can listen on the go. Read Full Article Here: https://impactpricing.com/blog/two-buyers-talked-and-nothing-bad-happened/ If you have any feedback, definitely send it. You can reach us at mark@impactpricing.com.  Now, go make an impact.   Connect with Mark Stiving: Email: mark@impactpricing.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/  

Scott Kelly is the founder and CEO of Blackdog Venture Partners, and he has been for 25 years. He's the host of VC Fast Pitch and he has about a dozen companies with the name Blackdog in them. Scott has taken 3 companies public and raised $5 billion throughout his career. In this episode, Scott explains how important it is for entrepreneurs to listen to their customers when setting prices, as he shares his knowledge on maximizing profits through effective pricing strategies that investors love.   Why you have to check out today's podcast: Learn how crucial recurring revenue models are to attracting investors and why subscription-based pricing provides the consistency they seek.  Find out why selling on price alone is bad for both sides of the transaction and how to focus on value instead.  Understand the power of letting your customers help you determine pricing through relationship-building rather than transactions.   "Let your customers help you price." – Scott Kelly   Topics Covered: 02:00 – How Scott accidentally discovered pricing through helping hundreds of entrepreneurs raise capital and maximize profits  03:00 – Why competing on lowest price destroys value for both buyer and seller - and what to do instead  05:00 – AI's double impact on pricing: Using it for better decisions vs. pricing AI-enabled products  06:00 – The carpenter analogy: Why AI is just a tool and the real value comes from expertise in wielding it  07:00 – How AI will democratize business like the internet did - and what that means for pricing 09:00 – The art of determining "what the market will bear" through customer relationships and feedback  12:00 – Why Scott brings up pricing "almost immediately" with entrepreneurs (and why you should too)  14:00 – Finding the pricing "strike zone" - where customers won't jump for joy but won't run out the door  15:00 – The relationship vs. transaction mindset: How to get customers to help set your prices  17:00 – Scott's final wisdom: Let your customers help you price - the ultimate customer-centric approach   Key Takeaways: "At the end of the day, you want to provide enough value so they stick around at a price that can keep you sticking around." – Scott Kelly "AI is a tool. You need to make sure you have the right carpenter or the right instrument and the right professional playing that instrument. So I think how you price that is the value add that you bring to this tool that's AI." – Scott Kelly "You have to spend time getting to know them. I think it's a process of establishing a relationship versus a transaction." – Scott Kelly   People / Resources Mentioned: VC Fast Pitch: https://vcfastpitch.com/    Connect with Scott Kelly: Website: https://blackdogventurepartners.com/   LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/blackdogceo/    Connect with Mark Stiving:  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/  Email: mailto:mark@impactpricing.com  

This is an Impact Pricing Blog published on June 30, 2025, turned into an audio podcast so you can listen on the go. Read Full Article Here: https://impactpricing.com/blog/everyones-talking-about-ai-almost-nobodys-using-it/ If you have any feedback, definitely send it. You can reach us at mark@impactpricing.com.  Now, go make an impact.   Connect with Mark Stiving: Email: mark@impactpricing.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/

Bryan Phelps is the founder and CEO of Big Leap, a digital marketing agency he's been running for 17 years. He's been working in digital marketing and SEO since college and recently served as a juror in a murder trial (though we don't discuss that). Bryan specializes in helping B2B tech companies and professional services firms navigate the evolving landscape of AI-powered search and discovery. In this episode, Bryan reveals how AI is fundamentally changing SEO and digital marketing, why traditional performance marketing tactics are becoming less effective, and how companies can build "brand-led performance marketing" strategies that work across Google, AI platforms, and future technologies.   Why you have to check out today's podcast:  Learn the key differences between B2B and B2C buyer behavior in the age of AI search.  Discover the three pillars of AI SEO and how they relate to traditional search optimization. Understand why building relationships with the 95% of non-shopping audiences creates pricing power.   "A lot of value is created before you ever start a pricing conversation. So that's how we're trying to help our clients shift a bit is, not just focus on that 5% of people that are in market and then compete on price."  – Bryan Phelps   Topics Covered: 01:40 – B2B vs B2C SEO differences: How buyer journeys vary from research-heavy B2B to purchase-ready B2C audiences  04:08 – AI SEO and discoverability strategies: Understanding where audiences search and optimizing for multiple platforms beyond Google  07:44 – AI recommendations and SEO strategy overlap: How AI's "query fan out" method connects Google rankings to AI search results  12:18 – Brand element and popularity component: Why being recognized as an industry authority matters more than broad household recognition  15:05 – Brand-led performance marketing shift: Moving from link-based to mention-based strategies in the post-tracking world  18:45 – Brand ideology and differentiation process: How to define unique viewpoints and align with genuine audience connections  20:22 – AI's impact on content creation: Why long-tail content is losing value and expertise-based content is gaining importance  25:56 – Pricing advice for businesses: Building value with non-shopping audiences to reduce price sensitivity and competition  27:02 – Staying informed in marketing: Bryan's LinkedIn newsletter for non-marketers navigating industry changes   Key Takeaways: "The exciting thing for us is I think it's kind of going back to almost like pre Google. So it really is more of a brand marketing function in a lot of ways." – Bryan Phelps "Being known to your audience is ultimately what matters. You don't have to be the household name, necessarily, but if your audience is just a little bit more niche and specific, you can be the brand in their world." – Bryan Phelps "Our goal isn't to take any company and just try to cover the broadest of brands... we're trying to ultimately create a brand that aligns with our ideal client." – Bryan Phelps "Our goal is to help brands be remembered, not just discovered." – Bryan Phelps   Resources and People Mentioned: Big Leap Digital Marketing Agency: https://bigleap.com  Kobe Bush: Team member who coined "people notice different" concept  Query Fan Out: AI method of breaking prompts into multiple searches  Brand Ideology Process: Big Leap's framework for unique positioning  Zero Click Marketing: New measurement paradigm for AI-driven discovery   Connect with Bryan Phelps: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bryanphelps/ Website: https://bigleap.com   Connect with Mark Stiving: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/  Email: mark@impactpricing.com  

This is an Impact Pricing Blog published on June 30, 2025, turned into an audio podcast so you can listen on the go. Read Full Article Here: https://impactpricing.com/blog/product-market-fit-is-overrated-for-pricing/ If you have any feedback, definitely send it. You can reach us at mark@impactpricing.com.  Now, go make an impact.   Connect with Mark Stiving: Email: mark@impactpricing.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/  

John Norkus is the founder of chiefpricingofficer.com and has led pricing transformation teams at several large consulting companies including Deloitte and KPMG. He started his career as an aircraft engineer before transitioning into business, bringing his analytical mindset to understanding the behavioral economics of pricing decisions. In this episode, John makes a compelling case for why pricing professionals deserve a seat at the executive table, exploring the disconnect between pricing's impact on enterprise value and its typical organizational placement. He discusses his new platform designed to unite senior pricing professionals and elevate the discipline to C-suite recognition.   Why you have to check out today's podcast:  Discover why pricing professionals are typically buried 2-3 levels below the CEO despite controlling one of four key profit drivers. Learn the difference between traditional pricing roles and true chief pricing officer responsibilities. Understand how to position pricing as enterprise value creation rather than just cost management.   "Pricing may be part marketing, part analytics, part behavioral, part external, part internal, but it is the piece that aligns us on how we're actually squaring off against the market."  – John Norkus   Topics Covered:  01:43 – John's journey to pricing transformation: From aircraft engineer to behavioral economics and CRM to pricing strategy  05:18 – Positioning pricing as organizational connective tissue: Why pricing deserves equal footing with volume, cost, and mix initiatives 08:01 – The pricing control dilemma among departments: How sales, marketing, finance, and operations all claim ownership of pricing decisions  12:24 – Defining the Chief Pricing Officer's role: Executive alignment versus operational pricing work and transformation implementation  15:45 – Pricing strategies in business: Inside-out versus outside-in approaches and competitive intelligence versus customer willingness to pay  16:32 – Critical senior alignment in pricing projects: Why CEO buy-in as a top-3 initiative determines transformation success or failure  19:39 – Pricing and enterprise value analysis: Demonstrating 2-7% bottom-line impact within 12-18 months to justify executive investment  23:35 – The activist CFO and enterprise value: Finding CFOs who understand value creation beyond cost reduction and margin improvement  29:29 – Pricing as organizational alignment: How pricing serves as the ultimate test of market positioning and competitive strategy   Key Takeaways: "If the pricing transformation of the pricing program isn't number one on the CEO's list of one, two, or three most important thing they can do this year... then quite frankly, it's not as important and it doesn't have the kind of alignment that you thought it did." – John Norkus "Organizations who get it are the ones that we should be engaging with... change comes from within. And if somebody believes that this is the right thing to do and they just need somebody to help them do it and somebody who has done it before, that's where people like you and I actually succeed." – John Norkus "I consider 20% of everything we do in pricing to be analytics or data and objective based, and the other 80% to be about behaviors, either internal behaviors or external behaviors that need to be captured and understood." – John Norkus   People / Resources Mentioned:  Professional Pricing Society (PPS): Established organization for pricing professionals and education  Simon Sinek Four Drivers of Enterprise Profit: Volume, Cost, Mix, and Price - and their typical organizational reporting structures   Connect with John Norkus:  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnmnorkus/ Email: john@chiefpricingofficer.com  Website: https://www.chiefpricingofficer.com/    Connect with Mark Stiving: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/  Email: mark@impactpricing.com  

This is an Impact Pricing Blog published on June 23, 2025, turned into an audio podcast so you can listen on the go. Read Full Article Here: https://impactpricing.com/blog/when-pricing-becomes-sleazy-manipulation/ If you have any feedback, definitely send it. You can reach us at mark@impactpricing.com.  Now, go make an impact.   Connect with Mark Stiving: Email: mark@impactpricing.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/

Steven Forth is the founder and CEO of Ibbaka and by far Impact Pricing's most frequent guest. He's currently developing ValueIQ, a set of agents for pricing and value advisory work that will soon be available for broader use. In this episode, Steven discusses his recent research comparing agent strategies across four major pricing software companies, explores the fundamental question of how many agents is optimal, and reveals how AI is transforming both the buying and selling process in ways most companies aren't prepared for.   Why you have to check out today's podcast: Learn how the four major pricing software companies (Pros, Vendavo, Zilliant, PriceFX) approach agent development differently. Discover the key difference between role-based and task-based agent design strategies. Understand how AI will fundamentally change B2B buying processes and what that means for pricing.   "Start using AI to get a deeper understanding of how your customers are buying. Because if you don't understand how your customers are buying and buying using AI, you're not going to be able to price properly." – Steven Forth   Topics Covered:  02:07 – ValueIQ introduction: Steven's new agent platform for pricing and value advisory work  06:34 – Defining agents: The difference between true agentic AI and wrapped LLM functionality  10:49 – Sales agent complexity: Breaking down the many tasks salespeople perform and agent granularity 12:35 – Pricing agents vs. features: How to decide between individual pricing and bundling strategies  15:55 – The future of pricing models: Why "good, better, best" packaging may disappear in 2-3 years  21:05 – AI's role in B2B buying: How AI intermediaries will transform RFP processes and vendor selection  25:06 – Understanding AI-powered customers: Why companies must learn how their buyers use AI in purchasing decisions   Key Takeaways: "When I saw that PriceFX announced that it had more than 125 agents... I thought, huh, that's kind of a jaw-dropping number. I don't think I could generate 125 agents for pricing software." – Steven Forth "The role of AI in the buying process is more important than the role of AI in the sales process." – Steven Forth "You're going to be creating more content, not less. But that content is primarily going to be consumed by AIs." – Steven Forth "I think that many of the common packaging assumptions such as good, better, best are going to dissolve away over the next two or three years." – Steven Forth   Resources Mentioned: Michael Mansard's 14-factor model: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelmansard/    Connect with Steven Forth: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevenforth/  Email: steven@ibbaka.com   Connect with Mark Stiving: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/ Email: mark@impactpricing.com  

This is an Impact Pricing Blog published on June 16, 2025, turned into an audio podcast so you can listen on the go. Read Full Article Here: https://impactpricing.com/blog/the-secret-link-between-market-segments-and-the-will-i-decision/ If you have any feedback, definitely send it. You can reach us at mark@impactpricing.com.  Now, go make an impact. Connect with Mark Stiving: Email: mark@impactpricing.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/

Ashish Gupta, founder and CEO of ScaleUp Exec, brings a unique perspective to pricing from his experience building and selling multiple companies across technology, e-commerce, and subscription businesses. Starting his career at Anheuser-Busch (as the company's only non-drinker), Ashish has led businesses from startup to eight-figure valuations, giving him deep insights into pricing across different business models and growth stages. In this episode, Ashish shares unconventional pricing strategies that transformed his businesses, including how he convinced vendors to provide products for free by repositioning his company as a marketing partner rather than a traditional retailer.   Why you have to check out today's podcast:  Discover how to identify and target the specific customer segments willing to pay premium prices for your unique value proposition.  Learn the "influencer plus" strategy that transforms vendor relationships from cost centers into revenue-generating partnerships.  Understand how subscription businesses create deeper customer relationships and the pricing implications of holding customer credit cards.   "Instead of trying to go to a general audience, which may or may not be interested in paying you more for something unique about your product, really try and understand who is that core set of people that will find real value and be willing to pay for that value."  – Ashish Gupta   Topics Covered:  01:48 — Ashish's entrepreneurial journey: From Anheuser-Busch to multiple successful exits. 03:42 — The psychology of subscription pricing: Why holding credit cards creates deeper customer relationships. 07:54 — Win, Keep, Grow framework: The often-overlooked "grow" component in subscription businesses.  11:03 — ScaleUp Exec's fractional COO model: Bringing enterprise talent to small and medium businesses.  13:45 — Revenue growth strategies: How COOs approach customer acquisition and diversification differently. 17:34 — The pricing audit revelation: Why PE firms consistently find underpriced acquisitions. 22:01 — The "off balance sheet CFO" positioning strategy for premium pricing.  22:58 — The vendor flip strategy: From paying wholesale to getting products for free. 24:04 — Building the "influencer plus" model: Combining audience and distribution for vendor value.   Key Takeaways: "I think relationship and subscription are, they kind of go hand in hand. That means I have to always be getting value. I have to have this confidence that, if somebody has my credit card and I've given them authorization to charge it versus like, let's say an Amazon, I'm proactively going in and saying, yes, I want this item." – Ashish Gupta "If we can build out our own audience, and grow that audience to be something meaningful and have a deep connection with that audience so that they really trust us, our brand as a retailer, then we can actually talk with our vendors and say, hey, we're no longer a retailer, we're really a marketing company." – Ashish Gupta   Resources and People Mentioned:  Anheuser-Busch: https://www.anheuser-busch.com  Shopify Shop Pay: https://www.shopify.com/shop-pay  PayPal: https://www.paypal.com/  Mark Stiving's book: "Win, Keep, Grow" about subscription businesses   Connect with Ashish Gupta:  Website: https://scaleupexec.com/  Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashish-gup/    Connect with Mark Stiving: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/  Email: mark@impactpricing.com  

This is an Impact Pricing Blog published on June 9, 2025, turned into an audio podcast so you can listen on the go. Read Full Article Here: https://impactpricing.com/blog/why-pricing-ai-is-so-hard/ If you have any feedback, definitely send it. You can reach us at mark@impactpricing.com.  Now, go make an impact.   Connect with Mark Stiving: Email: mark@impactpricing.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/  

Craig Wilson, Director of Pricing and Packaging at Moody's Analytics, brings extensive experience from major financial services companies including S&P and Experian. Starting his career in financial analysis at a Scottish car retailer after his soccer dreams didn't materialize, Craig discovered his natural strengths in numbers and analytical tools, leading him to specialize in pricing across subscription products, deal desk operations, and information technology services. In this episode, Craig explores the dual challenge of AI in pricing: how to monetize AI-enhanced products and how to leverage AI tools for pricing decisions. Drawing from his experience at Moody's, he discusses why traditional pricing principles still apply to AI products while acknowledging the fundamental disruption AI creates for per-user models. Craig shares practical insights on using AI as a pricing coach and the critical importance of early involvement in product development.   Why you have to check out today's podcast: Learn why AI pricing follows traditional value-based principles but requires new approaches to pricing metrics and value capture. Discover practical ways to use AI tools like Microsoft Copilot for pricing strategy, stakeholder communication, and sales enablement. Understand the critical timing of pricing involvement in AI product development to influence monetization strategies from the ground up.   "Get involved in the product development process as early as possible, particularly in the era of Gen AI and agentic AI."  – Craig Wilson   Topics Covered: 01:30 — Craig's pricing journey: From Scottish car retailer to Moody's Analytics pricing leader 04:15 — Why AI pricing fundamentals haven't changed: Still about value creation and capture 06:30 — The consensus problem: No clear patterns yet in AI pricing 08:45 — Use case example: using AI to do pricing 11:15 — Using AI as a pricing coach: Daily conversations with Microsoft Copilot for strategy development  14:30 — Communication enhancement: Translating pricing concepts for different business personas 16:45 — Sales enablement evolution: AI-powered guidance for complex solution positioning 19:20 — Trust and validation concerns: The information vs. agentic AI distinction 21:45 — Economic value estimation: How AI can finally make this pricing holy grail practical 23:30 — The monetization investment gap: Companies building AI capabilities without pricing strategies   Key Takeaways: On Early Involvement in Product Development:  "Get involved in the product development process as early as possible, particularly in the era of Gen AI and agentic AI." – Craig Wilson On Per-User Pricing's Death:  "In the world of particularly agentic AI solutions, the per-user model is becoming obsolete. I can't see a place for it." – Craig Wilson   Resources and People Mentioned: Moody's Analytics: https://www.moodysanalytics.com/  Tom Nagle: "Strategy and Tactics of Pricing" book: https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/mono/10.4324/9781315266220/strategy-tactics-pricing-thomas-nagle-john-hogan-joseph-zale  Steven Forth: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevenforth/  Kyle Poyar: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyle-poyar/  Stuart Wintertere: LinkedIn thought leader on AI value  Microsoft Copilot: Daily AI coaching tool    Connect with Craig Wilson:  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/craig-wilson-5857ba4a/  Email: craig.wilson@moodys.com   Connect with Mark Stiving:   LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/   Email: mark@impactpricing.com  

This is an Impact Pricing Blog published on June 2, 2025, turned into an audio podcast so you can listen on the go. Read Full Article Here: https://impactpricing.com/blog/jobs-to-be-done-vs-problems-and-results-whats-more-useful-in-b2b/ If you have any feedback, definitely send it. You can reach us at mark@impactpricing.com.  Now, go make an impact.   Connect with Mark Stiving: Email: mark@impactpricing.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/

Steven Forth has been a frequent guest on Impact Pricing and is a co-creator of the COMPASS framework. Michael Mansard is the Principal Director of Subscription Strategy at Zora. He's an investor in and mentor to several startups, and he started his career in consulting at companies like Deloitte and SAP, so he knows a lot. In this episode, Steven and Michael dive deep into the COMPASS framework for evaluating pricing metrics in the age of AI and agentic systems, exploring how traditional SaaS economics are being turned upside down and why companies need to move away from user-based pricing models.   Why you have to check out today's podcast:  Learn why AI pricing fundamentally breaks the traditional SaaS model of "expensive to build, cheap to run". Understand the COMPASS framework's 14-question assessment for selecting optimal pricing metrics. Explore the accelerating cycles of pricing complexity and simplification across technology waves.   "I think that most people are clueless and do not want to admit that they're clueless. And I think admission is key because admission leads you to a scientific approach to pricing and enables you to accept, to try smaller samples, especially in the age of AI."  – Michael Mansard   Topics Covered:  02:08 – How Michael got into pricing  03:12 – Defining business models vs. pricing models vs. pricing metrics  06:22 – Introduction to the COMPASS framework and why it exists  07:25 – How AI flips traditional SaaS economics on its head 08:03 – The gym membership paradox in AI pricing 11:05 – Steven's perspective on whether pricing fundamentals have changed  24:20 – Pricing evolution cycles and their accelerating speed  27:39 – How COMPASS captures competitive differentiation  34:28 – Michael's pricing advice on embracing iteration and admitting uncertainty   Key Takeaways: "I've seen more change in my part of the technology world in the last six months than I've seen in my entire lifetime." – Steven Forth “If you price it per user, the more a user uses it, the worse margin it would yield. And that's a problem, right? So I call that the gym membership paradox." – Michael Mansard "We need to change the metric. Now the billion dollar question is what metric? And the raison d'être of that framework is exactly that. It's to help people navigate, hence the notion of COMPASS." – Michael Mansard   People / Resources Mentioned:  COMPASS Framework: 14-question assessment for pricing metrics: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/compass-agentic-ai-pricing-metric-framework-your-2-part-mansard-f9qqe  Roger Martin Strategic Choice Cascade: Framework for aligning pricing with business strategy: https://rogermartin.medium.com/decoding-the-strategy-choice-cascade-475d40555eb1 John Maeda's "The Laws of Simplicity": Design principles applicable to pricing models: https://lawsofsimplicity.com/  Karan Sood: https://www.linkedin.com/in/soodkaran/  PriceFX: Company introducing 125 agents: https://www.pricefx.com/ and https://lp.pricefx.com/agents_trial.html   Connect with Steven Forth:  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevenforth/  Email: steven@ibbaka.com   Connect with Michael Mansard:  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelmansard/    Connect with Mark Stiving:  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/  Email: mailto:mark@impactpricing.com  

This is an Impact Pricing Blog published on May 26, 2025, turned into an audio podcast so you can listen on the go. Read Full Article Here: https://impactpricing.com/blog/value-is-not-the-same-as-willingness-to-pay/ If you have any feedback, definitely send it. You can reach us at mark@impactpricing.com.  Now, go make an impact.   Connect with Mark Stiving: Email: mark@impactpricing.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/

Steven Forth is the Co-founder and Chief Value Officer at Ibbaka, a leading value and pricing consulting firm. With deep expertise in AI applications for pricing and value modeling, Steven is at the forefront of developing intelligent agents that help businesses understand and communicate value more effectively. His work focuses on the intersection of artificial intelligence, pricing strategy, and value creation, making him a pioneer in applying AI to solve complex pricing challenges. In this episode, Steven shares his insights on how benchmarking is revolutionizing both AI development and pricing strategy. Drawing parallels between how AI models are improved through benchmarking and how pricing models should be evaluated, he introduces a framework for measuring pricing effectiveness that could transform how we approach pricing decisions. Together with Mark, they explore the challenges of establishing "truth" in pricing, the role of synthetic data, and the future of AI-powered pricing tools.   Why you have to check out today's podcast: Discover how AI benchmarking principles can revolutionize pricing model evaluation. Understand how to evaluate pricing models from both buyer and seller perspectives. Explore the future of AI-powered pricing tools and what it means for pricing professionals.   "We don't start with the truth. We have to work our way towards truth through multiple iterations and applications." – Steven Forth   Topics Covered: 02:15 – How Intercom's FinAI agent uses daily benchmarking to improve ticket resolution performance 05:30 – Why AI's success is built on benchmarking and how it emerged from the ImageNet competition 08:45 – The critical problem: pricing lacks standardized benchmarking like AI models have 11:20 – Michael Mansard's 12-factor pricing model assessment and its potential as an industry standard 14:10 – Why pricing models must be evaluated from both buyer and seller perspectives 17:25 – How market segmentation and use cases complicate pricing model benchmarking 20:40 – The role of synthetic data in pricing research and model validation 24:15 – Why "vibe coding" could disrupt traditional pricing consulting within 3 years 27:30 – The search for truth in pricing: hedonic pricing models and market assumptions 31:45 – Introduction to ValueIQ: Ibbaka's new AI agent for value-based selling   Key Takeaways: "Anyone who says that they're data centric or data driven is actually before that they have to be model driven because they're using some form of model to organize the data." – Steven Forth "We should have done this 20 years ago. What were we thinking? Well, we weren't thinking. And we didn't have ways to do this for us anyway." – Steven Forth (on developing pricing benchmarks) "Benchmarking every day, I think, is going to be critical to the success of agents that do important business things." – Steven Forth "You can always improve your measurement, but at some point the return of improving the measurement is lower than the cost of increasing the validity of the measurement." – Steven Forth   Resources and People Mentioned: Douglas Hubbard's How to Measure Anything (book): https://www.amazon.com/How-Measure-Anything-Intangibles-Business/dp/1118539273  ImageNet: https://image-net.org/  Michael Mansard's 12-Factor Pricing Model: https://www.insead.edu/bio/michael-mansard-0  Intercom's FinAI: https://www.intercom.com/help/en/articles/8205718-fin-ai-agent-resolutions  Lovable, Replit, Bolt: https://linkblink.medium.com/bolt-vs-cursor-vs-replit-vs-lovable-ai-coders-comparison-guide-3b9d41e75810  ValueIQ: https://www.ibbaka.com/ibbaka-market-blog/get-ready-for-valueiq-sign-up-now-for-beta-access    Connect with Steven Forth: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevenforth/  Email: steven@ibbaka.com   Connect with Mark Stiving: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/ Email: mark@impactpricing.com