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The Mockingcast

The Mockingcast
Author: Mockingbird
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© 2025 Mockingbird Ministries
Description
The Mockingcast is a bi-weekly podcast hosted by RJ Heijmen, Sarah Condon and David Zahl, and brought to you by Mockingbird Ministries, an organization which seeks to connect the Christian faith with the realities of everyday life in fresh and down-to-earth ways. You can find out more about Mockingbird at www.mbird.com.
Audio production provided by TJ Hester.
Audio production provided by TJ Hester.
282 Episodes
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In which RJ, Sarah, and Dave talk predatory advice-giving, suspicious mission statements, unloving algorithms, and atoning physicians. Also, Dave's son wins a big award.
Click here (https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2025/09/parents-dislike-kids-friends/684061/) to read Russell Shaw's article in the Atlantic, "When Your Kid’s Best Friend Is a Great Big Problem."
Click here (https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/06/magazine/brene-brown-interview.html) to read the NY Times interview with Brene Brown.
Click here (https://thecorners.substack.com/p/sufficiently-suspicious) to read NBW's "Sufficiently Suspicious" newsletter.
Click here (https://mbird.com/everyday/excuses-excuses/) to read "Excuses, Excuses" by Sam Bush on Mbird.
Click here (https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2025/07/21/greg-gulbransen-profile-doctor-pediatrician) to read "A Family Doctor's Search for Salvation" in the New Yorker.
In the season premiere, RJ, Sarah and Dave talk nightmare summers, tween retailers, ethical checklists, and the deadliest addiction of all. We also learn the whole point of Sarah.
Click here (https://mbird.com/religion/testimony/lessons-learned-from-a-summer-on-crutches/) to read Dave's post on "Lessons from a (Miserable) Summer on Crutches".
Click here (https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2025/08/claires-bankruptcy-sale-tween-girl-store/683938/) to read Ellen Cushing's "What Claire's Once Gave Tween Girls" on The Atlantic.
Click here (https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2025/08/11/the-pain-of-perfectionism) to read "The Pain of Perfectionsism" by Leslie Jamison on The New Yorker.
Click here (https://slate.com/life/2025/07/drug-brain-addiction-revenge-public-health-death.html) to read "Bad Brains" by James Kimmel Jr on Slate.
Click here (https://mbird.com/bible/jesus-doesnt-care-when-you-wake-up/) to read "Jesus Doesn't Care When You Wake Up" by Todd Brewer on Mbird.
Click here (https://mbird.com/events/mockingbird-charlottesville-fall-conference/) for more details -- or to pre-register -- for the Fall Mockingbird Conference in Charlottesville, VA (Nov 14&15).
Mockingcasters looking for something to listen to while the crew is on summner hiatus, look no further! We're cross-posting the first episode of the new season of our Terrible Parables podcast, "The Hawaiian Shirt Guy at a Wedding" in which long time Mockingbird contributors Cali Yee, Todd Brewer and Bryan Jarrell parse the parable of the Wedding Banquet that Jesus tells in Matthew 22:1-14.
Listen to more episodes (https://open.spotify.com/show/36bVQu28neWIoSGwsE0aXg?si=721c5a6a132b468f) of Terrible Parables on Spotify
Listen to more episodes (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/terrible-parables/id1630787144) of Terrible Parables on Apple
Click here (https://mbird.com/shop/magazine/issue-27-law-and-gospel/) to order a copy of the Law & Gospel issue of The Mockingbird Magazine
In their last episode before the summer hiatus, RJ, Sarah, and Dave talk afternoon pop-ins, cigarette nostalgia, do-gooder derogation, and rejected generations. Also, RJ watches Cobra Kai while Sarah's son (thankfully) opts not to take over the world.
To respond to the opening appeal, visit www.mbird.com/support (https://interland3.donorperfect.net/weblink/WebLink.aspx?name=E353807&id=2).
Click here (https://www.southernliving.com/the-lost-art-of-afternoon-visit-8648289) to read Patricia Shannon's column, "Let's Bring Back the Lost Art of the Afternoon Visit" in Southern Living
Click here (https://link.vox.com/view/608adc8291954c3cef050976nmq52.1ab1/c990f126) to read Vox's Future Perfect newsletter about do-gooder derogation by Sigal Samuel
Click here (https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/15/opinion/rejection-college-youth.html?unlocked_article_code=1.Hk8.oUan.LvZ0PZA51akR&smid=url-share) to read David Brooks' article "We Are the Most Rejected Generation" in the NY Times
Click here (https://mbird.com/tv/nepo-babies-and-the-economy-of-fairness/) to read "Nepo Babies and the Economy of Grace" by Chris Wachter on Mbird
The closing song, used with permission, is "Miracle Service" by Andy Squyres, which you can find on Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/track/4bIaI7EufViY2JfMJ9D9po?si=ac2f4044a25b48fa), YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dElBfT6akiQ), and Apple (https://music.apple.com/us/album/miracle-service/1808907045?i=1808907170)
In which RJ, Sarah, and Dave talk marketing trauma, cultural decline, and the pluses and minuses of the silent treatment. Also, Sarah goes on a date to WalMart, while RJ tries real hard to be the shepherd.
Click here (https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2025/05/mothers-day-email-opt-out/682715/) to read Ellen Cushing's article "The Brands Are Very Sorry About Your Trauma."
Click here (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2025/06/american-pop-culture-decline/682578/) to read Is This the Worst-Ever Era of American Pop Culture? by Spencer Kornhaber.
Click here (https://mbird.com/everyday/law/deafening-silence/) to read "Deafening Silence" by Sam Bush on Mbird.
Click here (https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/03/magazine/ocean-vuong-interview.html) to read David Marchese's interview with Ocean Vuong in the NY Times.
In which RJ, Sarah, and Dave talk Pope Francis, dirty dishes, eternal life, and Dave's new book, The Big Relief. Also, RJ bleeds in the pulpit while Sarah takes us to the alley.
Click here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qj5z4SbrH20) to listen to (and watch) Gregory Porter sing "Take Me to the Alley".
Click here (https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2025/04/how-to-load-dishwasher/682425/) to read Ellen Cushing's "There Are Two Types of Dishwasher People" in the Atlantic.
Click here (https://oliverbatemandoesthework.substack.com/p/the-work-of-small-talk) to read "The Work of Small Talk" from the Oliver Bateman Does the Work substack.
Click here (https://amzn.to/44doDBg) to order Dave's book, The Big Relief: The Urgency of Grace for a Worn-Out World.
Click here (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/give-and-take/id1054531804?i=1000703777631) to listen to the interview that RJ mentions (Dave on Give + Take with Scott Jones). Or here to watch (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FajbkMAVWiU) it.
Click here (https://mbird.com/holidays/easter/eternal-life-is-not-embarrassing/) to read Bryan Jarrell's piece, "Eternal Life Is Not Embarrassing" on Mbird.
In which RJ, Sarah, and Dave talk comic marriages, unruly kids, brainwashed Christians and Lenten props. Also, RJ recounts his favorite ever baptism while Sarah revises her opinion of frozen margaritas.
Click here (https://mbird.com/events-list/) to register for the NYC Conference.
Click here (https://amzn.to/3GlmWrd) to pre-register Dave's new book, The Big Relief.
Click here (https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2025/03/jim-gaffigan-tom-papa-marriage/682170/) to read Olga Khazan's article about "What Comedians Know About Staying Married".
Click here (https://www.instagram.com/reel/DHpIjEhSwEp/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA%3D%3D) to watch Conan O'Brien's acceptance speech for the Mark Twain Award.
Click here (https://www.christiancentury.org/voices/praise-unruly-children-church) to read "In Praise of Unruly Children in Church" by Phil Christman in The Christian Century.
Click here (https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2025/04/07/its-always-the-other-side-thats-been-brainwashed) to read "It's Always the Other Side That's Brainwashed" by Nikhil Krishnan in The New Yorker.
Click here (https://mbird.com/bible/the-dangers-of-prop-comedy/) to read Ben Maddison's article on "The Dangers of Prop Comedy" on Mbird.
Episode title courtesy of Jon Guerra's song "Citizens" (https://open.spotify.com/track/216VrH1pVtArk8lilJJQih?si=f14e478abf3d4fc7), used with permission.
In which RJ, Sarah, and Dave talk trend fatigue, athletic nepotism, and toxic preconditions. Also, RJ ponders South Korean babies while Sarah balks at a decision-making expert's decision.
Click here (https://mbird.com/events/relief/) to register for the upcoming Mbird Conference in New York City (5/1-3)
Click here (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/03/07/style/gen-z-trend-cycle.html) to read Callie Holtermann's "Too Many Trends!" in The New York Times
Click here (https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2025/03/lebron-james-bronny-smith-journalists/682059/) to read about LeBron James and the Limits of Nepotism in The Atlantic
Click here (https://ckarchive.com/b/wvu2hghkkz6xgb9r552rqtn0grxxxh8) to read Oliver Burkeman's newsletter about "Toxic Preconditions"
Click here (https://www.wsj.com/arts-culture/books/daniel-kahneman-assisted-suicide-9fb16124) to read "The Last Decision by the World’s Leading Thinker on Decisions" by Jason Zweig in the Wall Street Journal
Click here (https://mbird.com/theology/a-mercy-hidden-in-judgment/) to read David Clay's "A Mercy Hidden in Judgment"
In which RJ, Sarah, and Dave talk gracious dermatology, religious resurgence, endemic narcissism, and alto harmonies. Also, Sarah sings some spirituals while RJ watches some cows.
Click here (https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/04/well/dr-pimple-popper-profile-sandra-lee.html) to read "Dr Pimple Popper Knows You Can't Look Away" by Eve Peyser
Click here (https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/26/us/christianity-us-religious-study-pew.html) to read Ruth Graham's report on how Christianity’s Decline in U.S. Appears to Have Halted in the NY Times
Click here (https://mbird.com/everyday/getting-over-ourselves/) to read Tony Robinson's post "Getting Over Ourselves" on Mbird
Click here (https://thecorners.substack.com/p/how-dare-you) to read NBW's substack "Nobody Is Doing This Right (Except Me)"
Click here to read "Singing Myself Back to Life" by Susan Swetnam in Commonweal
The closing song is "I See the Birds" by Jon Guerra. Used with permission. Click here (https://music.apple.com/us/album/i-see-the-birds-single/1798058794) to purchase on Apple or here to purchase on Bandcamp (https://jonguerra.bandcamp.com/track/i-see-the-birds), or here to listen on Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/track/6iIZLd29ZRRnan0gqYrpsv?si=c365cd7b4d0840fb).
In which RJ, Sarah, and Dave talk relationship recessions, trustafarian guilt, providential nuns, and revitalized churches. Also, Sarah throws a Galentine's party for the ages.
Click here (https://mbird.com/shop/magazine/issue-26-the-holy-spirit/) to order a copy of the Holy Spirit issue of The Mockingbird, or here to subscribe (https://mbird.com/shop/magazine/4-issue-subscription/) to the magazine
Click here (https://mbird.com/events/relief/) to register for our upcoming NYC Conference (5/1-3)
Click here (https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2025/02/america-marriage-decline/681518/) to read about America's 'Marriage Material' Shortage in The Atlantic
Click here (https://mbird.com/social-science/relationships/dying-alone-rising-with-christ/) to read Elizabeth Callen's piece "Dying Alone?" on Mbird
Click here (https://archive.is/7d5lK) to read New York Magazine's profile of "People With Parents With Money"
Click here (https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2025/02/17/the-nuns-trying-to-save-the-women-on-texas-death-row) to read Lawrence Wright's essay about "The Nuns Trying to Save the Women on Texas's Death Row" in The New Yorker
Click here (https://mbird.com/religion/church/stirring-up-hope/) to read "Stirring Up Hope" by Paul Zahl on Mbird
In which RJ, Sarah, and Dave talk attention wars, inner critics, and middle school drama teachers. Also, RJ learns what HALT stands for, while Sarah gets her playdates mixed up.
Click here (https://mbird.com/announcements/issue-26-of-the-mockingbird-is-available-to-pre-order/) to learn more about (or order!) the Holy Spirit Issue of The Mockingbird
Click here (https://www.netflix.com/title/81945091) to watch_ The Turnaround_
Click here (https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2025/01/attention-valuable-resource/681221/) to read "You're Being Aliented From Your Attention" by Chris Hayes
Click here (https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2022/jul/31/got-the-ick-when-a-pang-of-disgust-ruins-your-romance) to read Rhik Samadder's article about The Ick in The Guardian
Click here (https://www.ask-polly.com/p/people-lash-out-when-theyre-sad) for "People Lash Out When They're Sad" by Heather Havrilesky, via Ask Polly
Click here (https://www.christianitytoday.com/2025/01/the-false-gospel-of-our-inner-critic/) to read The False Gospel of Our Inner Critic" by Steve Cuss in Christianity Today
Click here (https://mbird.com/social-science/identity/you-cant-choose-your-grace/) to read "You Can't Choose Your Grace" by Ben Fort on Mbird
In which RJ, Sarah, and Dave talk diminished partying, fearful motivations, radical saints, and the difference between spells and prayers. Also, Sarah shares what will happen when all the yards are finally mowed.
Click here (https://mbird.com/events/relief/) for more details about our Spring Conference in NYC (5/1-3)
Click here (https://amzn.to/4jjdPX7) to pre-order Dave's new book, The Big Relief
Click here (https://link.vox.com/view/608adc8291954c3cef050976mov8j.19km/1e7a998d) to read Oshan Jarow's newsletter about mediation for Vox.
Click here (https://link.vox.com/view/608adc8291954c3cef050976mov8j.19km/1e7a998d) to read about Americans Need to Party More by Ellen Cushing in The Atlantic.
Click here (https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2025/01/20/outraged-kurt-gray-book-review) to read Elizabeth Kolbert's essay in The New Yorker, "Does One Emotion Rule All Our Ethical Judgments?"
Click here (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2025/02/saint-francis-counterculture-charity-kindness/681095/) to read James Parker's piece on "The Saint America Needs Right Now."
Click here (https://mbird.com/religion/prayer/spells-and-prayers/) to read "Spells and Prayers" by Alan Jacobs on Mbird.
In which RJ, Sarah, and Dave talk peak reviewing, Martha Stewart's redemption, and Vietnamese recovery. Also, Spotify brings Dave full circle while Sarah uncovers a lost monologue from an 80s classic.
Click here (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/05/style/reviews-ratings-online.html) to read "Whatever You Do, Don't Review This" by Eric Taub in the NY Times.
Click here (https://www.seenandunseen.com/what-spotify-wrapped-really-tells-us-about-ourselves) to read Belle Tindall's "What Spotify Wrapped Really Tells Us About Ourselves" on Seen & Unseen.
Click here (https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/relationships/christmas-holiday-gifts-family-tips-7b9f2e57?st=9UwuRJ) to read Elizabeth Bernstein's column on "The Micropolitics of Family Gift Giving" in the WSJ.
Click here (https://mbird.com/everyday/celebrity/martha-stewart-and-the-pursuit-of-perfection/) to read about "Martha Stewart and the Pursuit of Perfection" on Mbird, courtesy of Sam Bush.
Click here (https://www.christianitytoday.com/2024/11/vietnam-christian-drug-rehab-jesus-aquila/) to read "Finding Sobriety--and Jesus--in Vietnam's Christian Rehabs" by Angela Lu Fulton in CT.
Click here (https://mbird.com/film/our-favorite-christmas-movies/) to read Mbird's list of Favorite Christmas Movies.
Click here (https://themockingpulpit.fireside.fm/1648) to listen to Sarah C's recent sermon, "The Tragic Gap of Advent."
Click here (https://assets.scriptslug.com/live/pdf/scripts/planes-trains-and-automobiles-1987.pdf) to read the original script for Trains, Planes, and Automobiles. The scene Sarah references is on pages 119-122.
Finally, click here (https://mbird.com/support/) to give a yearend gift to Mockingbird. We'll be back in mid-January!
In which RJ, Sarah, and Dave talk prepositional gratitude, backfiring fatalism, overgrown cemeteries, and lighthearted Advents. Also, RJ expounds on the benefits of bumblefat.
Click here (https://interland3.donorperfect.net/weblink/WebLink.aspx?name=E353807&id=2) to respond to the opening appeal and support Mockingbird this year-end!
Click here (https://www.newyorker.com/culture/open-questions/why-is-gratitude-so-difficult) to read Joshua Rothman's essay in The New Yorker, "Why Is Gratitude So Difficult?"
Click here (https://mbird.com/holidays/gold-metal-gratitude/) to read Bryan Jarrell's piece for Mbird on "Gold Medal Gratitude".
Click here (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/21/opinion/public-health-crisis-america.html) to read Jeneen Interlandi's NY Times op-ed, "We Tire Very Quickly of Being Told Everything's on Fire."
Click here (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/29/climate/us-cemeteries-wild-flowers.html) to read Cara Buckley's piece about the Rewilding of America's Cemeteries.
Click here (https://www.instagram.com/itstherosenthals/?hl=en) to watch the Instagram videos of Robin Rosenthal and her family that Sarah mentions.
Click here (https://garrisonkeillor.substack.com/p/walking-to-church-on-a-cold-day) to Garrison Keillor's substack about "Walking to Church On a Cold Day".
In which RJ, Sarah, and Dave talk post-election uncertainty, grieving non-grandparents, digital self-worth, and the bondage of the will. Also, Dave shares an important new use for q-tips.
Click here (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/12/opinion/donald-trump-election.html) to read Adam Grant's op-ed in the NY Times, "If You’re Sure How the Next Four Years Will Play Out, I Promise: You’re Wrong".
Click here (https://mbird.com/week-in-review/november-2-8/) to read Dave's post-election round-up on Mbird.
Click here (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/11/well/family/grandparent-grandchild-childfree.html) to read Catherine Pearson's article on "The Unspoken Grief of Never Becoming a Grandparent".
Click here (https://thewalrus.ca/collapse-of-self-worth-in-the-digital-age/) to read Thea Lim's essay in The Walrus, "The Collapse of Self-Worth in the Digital Age".
Click here (https://mbird.com/politics/election-day-hope/) to read Amy Mantravadi's Mbird column on "(Post-) Election Day Hope".
Click here (https://amzn.to/3AIZHoM) to order a copy of Amy's novel Broken Bonds.
In which RJ, Sarah, and Dave talk vibes, clutter, high school bullies, and fortunate falls. Also, Sarah contemplates Elvis, while RJ comes to terms with his uncoolness.
Click here (https://hedgehogreview.com/issues/the-varieties-of-travel-experience/articles/vibes) to read Kyle Edward Williams piece on Vibes in the Hedgehog Review.
Click here (https://aeon.co/essays/the-life-changing-magic-of-japanese-clutter) to read Matt Alt's essay on The Joy of Clutter for Aeon.
Click here (https://www.buzzfeed.com/simoneellin/middle-high-school-bully-depression) Simeon Ellin's piece for Buzzfeed about Tracking Down the Girls Who Bullied Her As a Kid.
Click here (https://mbird.com/bible/bridesmaids-revisited/) to read Will McDavid's post on Mbird, "Bridesmaids Revisited."
Click here (https://karenswallowprior.substack.com/p/george-herbert-easter-wings) to read Karen Swallow Prior's newsletter about George Herbert's shape-poem "Easter Wings."
Recorded in front of an audience in Tyler, TX, Sarah and Dave do their best to explain the What and Why of The Mockingcast. Think of it as a rare peek behind the curtain as well as a perfect jumping on point for new listeners. Also, Sarah spills some serious tea about a presidential funeral.
In which RJ, Sarah, and Dave talk Michelin stars, friends with money, autonomy traps, and Kristofferson's conversion. Also, Sarah and Dave gush about their favorite poet-priest-prophet-musician-TacoBellObsessive Andy Squyres.
Click here (https://thestorymakerspodcast.fireside.fm/) to listen to The StoryMakers Podcast.
Click here (https://www.economist.com/business/2024/09/24/the-curse-of-the-michelin-star) to read The Economist's report on The Curse of the Michelin Star.
Click here (https://globalwellnessinstitute.org/global-wellness-institute-blog/2024/09/24/workplace-wellness-is-unwell-companies-must-refocus-on-fair-pay-and-livable-hours/) to read about backfiring wellness iniatives.
Click here (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/28/business/friends-money-wealth-differences.html) to read Kristin Wong's article in the The NY Times about financial disparties within friendships.
Click here (https://www.plough.com/en/topics/community/commitment/the-autonomy-trap) to read James Wood's essay "The Autonomy Trap" in Plough.
Click here (https://mbird.com/bible/why-does-god-talk-so-loud/) to read Todd Brewer's "Why Does God Talk So Loud?" on Mbird.
Click here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tA7E7pbUws) to watch Kris Kristofferson relate the story behind "Why Me Lord?"
In which RJ, Sarah, and Dave talk school drop-off insanity, mindful underparenting, Silicon Valley rationalism, and anorexic recovery. Also, Sarah listens to a parking lot confession, while RJ fails to keep up. This episode is lovingly dedicated to the memory of Everett Lees.
Click here (https://givebutter.com/JZEkfM?fbclid=IwY2xjawFeSvVleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHbRrpRhrzKMd6q9c09qRr3IFrFDjEHVGONLoT9vlhTU8yt4oAmEvLGdUUQ_aem_RL-fYabJtdAZmmV0UMKkAA) to give to the Lees Family Trust.
Click here (https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2024/09/school-drop-off-cars-chaos/679869/) to read about How School Drop-Off Became a Nightmare by Kendra Hurley.
Click here (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/15/opinion/parenting-helicopter-ignoring.html) to read Darby Saxbe' column in The NY Times, "Parents Should Ignore Their Children More Often."
Click here (https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2024/09/omnipresent-ai-cameras-will-ensure-good-behavior-says-larry-ellison/) to read Larry Ellison's remarks about AI Cameras Ensuring Good Behavior.
Click here (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/17/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-zadie-smith.html) to read (or listen to) Ezra Klein's interview with Zadie Smith.
Click here (https://mbird.com/religion/testimony/when-all-else-fails/) to read Lindsay Holifield's piece on Mbird, "When All Else Fails."
In their first episode back, RJ, Sarah, and Dave talk peak loneliness, familial estrangement, and forgiven shoplifters. Also, our new logo/icon debuts, and a pair of Condons learn to surf.
Click here (https://mbird.com/events/the-language-of-grace/) for more information about our upcoming event in Tyler, TX (Sept 27&28)
Click here (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/27/magazine/loneliness-epidemic-cure.html) to read "Why Is the Loneliness Epidemic So Hard to Cure?" in the NY Times Magazine
Click here (https://mbird.com/shop/magazine/issue-25-home/) to order a copy of the Home Issue of The Mockingbird Magazine
Click here (https://www.newyorker.com/culture/annals-of-inquiry/why-so-many-people-are-going-no-contact-with-their-parents) to read "Why So Many People Are Going “No Contact” with Their Parents" by Anna Russell in The New Yorker
Click here (https://thepointmag.com/criticism/creation-myths/) to read "Creation Myths" by Linden Smith in The Point
Click here (https://mbird.com/theology/the-good-news-isnt-for-everyone/) to read "The Gospel Isn't For Everyone (But It Is For You)" by Sam Bush on Mockingbird
This was a fascinating listen! I will recommend it.
This is excellent listening for our current times. Informative, helpful and fun to listen to. It's a bit long, but worth the listen. I definitely recommend it, and may even get the book!
Excellent food for thought here.