FRIED. The Burnout Podcast

A whole team kept Slack on their phones 24/7. The real emergencies? Four in three months. A time autonomy mismatch, and the simple fix.How many times did you check Slack last night? During bath time, at dinner, in bed?One event planner at TeamOut did exactly that, until she asked the co-founder and CTO if she could delete Slack from her phone. In a job where clients have emergencies at 11pm, he almost said no on the spot. He didn't. Instead, TeamOut turned Slack off phones by default and created one paid, rotating on-call planner per night. In three months, that person got four actual calls. Four.In this episode, I break down his LinkedIn post because it's the cleanest example I've seen of a time autonomy mismatch, and of a company fixing one. Being half on all the time costs you mentally, emotionally and physically. It isn't a personal failure or a resilience problem. It's a signal that the way the work is designed doesn't match what the work actually needs.In this episode, I cover:Why event planning keeps landing on the list of the most stressful jobs, and why event pros are the unsung heroes of every eventThe planner who checked Slack during her kid's bath, at dinner and in bed, and found 95% of it could have waited until morningWhat time autonomy is, and how a company can mess it up without even tryingWhy asking to stop being "one foot in" all day is not the same as asking to be unreachableThe fix: Slack off phones by default, plus one paid, rotating on-call planner per nightThe kicker: four real emergency calls in three monthsThe hidden cost of a whole team staying half on to cover a few rare emergenciesWhy so many teams keep doing things that no longer serve them, and what the data has to do with itThe first question in my resentment journal: does this thing even have to be done?How one employee speaking up about her needs changed the way a whole company worksHow to send me your own mismatch stories, and your fixesQuotes:"Event professionals are the unsung heroes every single time. They do not get the glory or recognition that they deserve." (01:56 | Cait Donovan)"Think about how much that costs mentally, emotionally, and physically to be half on all the time, all because four emergency calls happen every three months." (04:56 | Cait Donovan)"Oftentimes, we are doing things a certain way because we've been doing it that way for a long time, because we haven't actually looked at the data to see if the data supports the thing that we're still doing." (05:35 | Cait Donovan)"Over time, we've seen that 10 to 20% of the things that people are resentful about don't actually ever need to be done." (06:12 | Cait Donovan)In this episode, we mentioned...The Resentment Journal: https://caitdonovan.com/resentment-journalWhy Giving Your Best Employees More Autonomy Sometimes Backfires (And What to Do Instead) A #straightfromcait Episode (FRIED #345): https://fried.caitdonovan.com/345Your Quiet Quitter Isn't Lazy: Three Mismatches Behind the Same Disengagement, a #straightfromcait episode (FRIED #369): https://fried.caitdonovan.com/369Burnout Is Not Your Fault, It's a Mismatch: An Early Look at My New Book, a #straightfromcait episode (FRIED #365): https://fried.caitdonovan.com/365#straightfromcait: Quiet Quitting, Loud Quitting, and Resentment (FRIED #170): https://fried.caitdonovan.com/170Got a mismatch at work, or a fix that worked? Email me at [email protected]. If your company got this right and wants a shout-out, I'll shout you out from the rooftops.Connect with Cait:If you work in HR, People and Culture, or you book speakers on burnout, this is for you.Book Cait to speak: https://bit.ly/bookcaitWatch the 3-min sizzle reel: https://bit.ly/caitdreel2025Order Mismatch: Why Good People Burn Out in Good Organizations for your team (bulk copies: [email protected])LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/caitdonovanspeaksInstagram: https://instagram.com/caitdonovanspeaksAbout the Host:Cait Donovan is a burnout expert, keynote speaker, and the host of FRIED. The Burnout Podcast, a top 1% global podcast with over 1 million downloads, ending burnout culture since 2019. With a background in biobehavioral sciences and Traditional Chinese Medicine, she helps leaders and organizations find the mismatches that burn good people out. She is the author of The Bouncebackability Factor and Mismatch: Why Good People Burn Out in Good Organizations.XOXO, C#straightfromcait #friedfam #endburnoutculture

"Skepticism is now the default posture." Henna PryorYou're communicating more than ever. So why aren't people believing you? Deepfakes, scams, AI-polished everything, and a meeting transcript that gets screenshotted into a Slack thread before you've even logged off. Everyone you talk to is quietly verifying you, and that constant hypervigilance is exhausting for their nervous system and yours.In this episode, I sit down with my friend Henna Pryor, CSP, workplace performance expert and author of Good Awkward, to dig into her new book, The Signal Gap: the distance between the signals you mean to send and what a verifying audience actually receives. Plus: why polish got cheap and then got suspicious, why your five-star survey scores are lying to you, the two walls every person walks into the room with, and why the speaking and presentation techniques we all learned might be quietly backfiring.And here's the part I loved most. We are not trying to close the gap with more information anymore. We're closing it on a biological basis, with congruence, so people's nervous systems can finally relax around us. Spoiler: it's a mismatch.Key Topics CoveredWhat the signal gap is, and why believability is breaking in subtle but costly waysWhy skepticism is now the default posture for almost everyone you talk toHow AI meeting summaries, screen grabs and side chats mean your message never stays putWhy polish got cheap, and the moment polish got cheap it got suspiciousHow younger generations rebuilt the believability test: less trust in institutions, more in individualsCongruence and the nervous system: why constant verification is a form of hypervigilanceThe observant middle: the quiet majority between your superfans and your hatersWhy we both rate every Uber five stars, and what that says about your survey dataThe honest truth about "Amazon bestseller" and letting a title live without its contextIntent smuggling: how good, high-intent people open signal gaps without meaning toAI disclosure, showing your work, and why "Tell me more about that LinkedIn post" is where believability diesThe two walls, cognitive ("yeah, but") and emotional, and how one sentence can lower bothUbiquity: why techniques like mirroring stop working once everyone knows themGlass walls: why the online version of you has to be safe for grandma, coworkers and college friends at onceQuotes"A signal gap, by definition, is the distance between the signals you mean to send and what a verifying audience actually receives." (05:09 | Henna Pryor)"Skepticism is now the default posture." (05:53 | Henna Pryor)"Polish got cheap. Therefore, polish got suspicious." (10:40 | Henna Pryor)"We are not trying to close the gap on an information basis anymore. Now we are trying to close the gap on a biological basis." (16:00 | Cait Donovan)"We stay skeptical. We stay armed. We stay vigilant, which is horrible for your nervous system." (17:56 | Henna Pryor)"I rate every single one of my Ubers five stars. Are they all five-star rides? Heck to the no." (23:48 | Henna Pryor)"We don't like being corrected, but we love correcting." (41:28 | Henna Pryor)"Any technique, tactic, practice, once it becomes ubiquitous, can stop being as effective as it once was." (48:25 | Henna Pryor)In this episode, we mentioned...The Signal Gap: How to Boost Believability and Influence in the Age of Doubt, by Henna PryorGood Awkward, by Henna PryorHenna's first time on FRIED: Henna Pryor: Embracing Awkward and Using AI to Reduce Burnout (FRIED #217): https://fried.caitdonovan.com/217What Employee Engagement Surveys Really Tell You, a #straightfromcait episode (FRIED #361): https://fried.caitdonovan.com/361Ewa Błaszczak: Heal Your Burnout by Detoxing Your Communication (FRIED #188): https://fried.caitdonovan.com/188Tamsen Webster, whose thinking model is the backbone of Henna's "let people watch you think" chapterChris Voss and Never Split the Difference (mirroring)Les BrownNancy Duarte, Seth Godin, Adam Grant and Robert Cialdini, all interviewed for The Signal GapMismatch: Why Good People Burn Out in Good Organizations, by meConnect with HennaHenna Pryor, CSP, is a workplace performance expert, global keynote speaker, and author of the 18-time award-winning Good Awkward and the new The Signal Gap. An Inc. Magazine expert columnist, LinkedIn Learning instructor and two-time TEDx and SXSW speaker, she has spoken for organizations including Google, Workday, Johnson & Johnson and JPMorganChase. Henna blends behavioral science, humor and two decades of experience to help leaders strengthen their mental and social muscles, take smarter risks, increase influence and perform at their best.Free first chapter of The Signal Gap, just for FRIED listeners: https://thesignalgap.com/friedPreorder The Signal Gap (out November 10, 2026): https://thesignalgap.comWebsite: https://pryoritygroup.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hennapryorInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/hennapryorConnect with CaitBring Cait to your organization: CaitDonovan.comBook Cait to speak: https://bit.ly/bookcait3-minute sizzle reel: https://bit.ly/caitdreel2025Get Mismatch: Why Good People Burn Out in Good Organizations: https://caitdonovan.com/mismatchOrder Mismatch for your team (bulk copies): [email protected]: linkedin.com/in/caitdonovanspeaksInstagram: instagram.com/caitdonovanspeaksAbout the HostCait Donovan is a globally recognized keynote speaker, one of the world's leading burnout experts, and host of FRIED. The Burnout Podcast, a top 1% podcast with more than 1 million downloads. With a background in biobehavioral health and Chinese medicine, Cait takes a systems-based approach to burnout, helping organizations, leaders, and individuals understand burnout not as a personal failure, but as a mismatch between people and the environments in which they work. Cait is the author of The Bouncebackability Factor and Mismatch: Why Good People Burn Out in Good Organizations. Her work has been featured in Forbes, NPR, The New York Post, and other major media outlets. Learn more about Cait's keynotes and workplace burnout programs at CaitDonovan.com.Podcast production and show notes by Starlin Media: https://starlinmedia.com

A perfectly good solution aimed at the wrong problem is still the wrong solution.Picture an employee who has been fantastic for years. Smart, dependable, great work. Lately they are quieter in meetings, they stopped volunteering for projects, and they are doing what is required and not one thing more. What would you do? Time off? Coaching? Better boundaries?In this episode, I walk you through three different Sams. All three show the exact same disengagement. All three have completely different problems underneath it. One is a micromanaging new boss. One is a dementia diagnosis at home and no sleep. One is the person everybody relies on, who gets more work instead of more money, more authority or more say. And that is the point: when we treat the behavior as the diagnosis instead of the symptom, we spend time, energy and money fixing the wrong thing. Burnout is not a personal failure. It is a signal that something is out of alignment, and new polling says it is not getting any better.In this episode, I cover:Why the same disengagement can come from three completely different mismatchesThe autonomy mismatch: when a new manager takes away the trust someone used to haveThe capacity mismatch: when life changes and the workload no longer fits the time and energy you haveThe effort-reward mismatch: when everything you put in stops being reflected in what you get backWhy a vacation, a coach or another resilience workshop will not fix a mismatch it was never aimed atWhy burnt out people almost never say more money would fix it, and what burnout does to how effort and reward feelCompounding mismatches and the web of causation I wrote for burnoutWhy removing blame does not remove responsibility, for managers, employees or organizationsThe three questions to ask before you try to fix anyone: What am I seeing and what am I assuming? What has changed? Is there something I can do to bring this person closer to a match?Why we keep solving symptoms instead of diagnoses, and what it costs usQuotes"A perfectly good solution aimed at the wrong problem is still the wrong solution." (00:51 | Cait Donovan)"Oftentimes we are using the behavior as the diagnosis instead of the symptom." (01:08 | Cait Donovan)"None of them have ever said that if they got paid more money, they would feel better." (04:26 | Cait Donovan)"Burnout rarely comes from one isolated mismatch. I've actually never seen that happen, not once in thousands of people." (04:51 | Cait Donovan)"Removing blame doesn't remove responsibility." (06:57 | Cait Donovan)"We get much further along the path when we figure out what needs to change instead of starting with who needs to be fixed." (07:11 | Cait Donovan)"Stop trying harder at solving the wrong thing. Start figuring out what actually needs to change." (12:37 | Cait Donovan)In this episode, we mentioned...Mismatch: Why Good People Burn Out in Good Organizations by Cait Donovan: https://caitdonovan.com/mismatchWhy Giving Your Best Employees More Autonomy Sometimes Backfires (And What to Do Instead), a #straightfromcait episode (FRIED, May 2026): https://redcircle.com/shows/e4c0db0a-98a4-47e6-a2b0-6a291469e1d6/episodes/8e59a176-4ef4-43df-8463-9ba628e09da4What Employee Engagement Surveys Really Tell You, a #straightfromcait episode (FRIED #361): https://redcircle.com/shows/e4c0db0a-98a4-47e6-a2b0-6a291469e1d6/episodes/fc11fac2-c8b1-4286-bc21-4699dcd3fdc1Can You Burn Out in a Good Workplace? a #straightfromcait episode (FRIED #363): https://redcircle.com/shows/e4c0db0a-98a4-47e6-a2b0-6a291469e1d6/episodes/f389bde0-aa95-4454-96c2-0e12362b046aBurnout Is Not Your Fault, It's a Mismatch: An Early Look at My New Book (FRIED #365): https://redcircle.com/shows/e4c0db0a-98a4-47e6-a2b0-6a291469e1d6/episodes/ff4aaa82-f693-430a-95fc-6dddd162a6e4Why Good People Burn Out in Good Organizations: Jess Pettitt Interviews Me About Mismatch (FRIED, Oct 2026): https://redcircle.com/shows/e4c0db0a-98a4-47e6-a2b0-6a291469e1d6/episodes/8f53e92c-a8ef-4045-af5d-6d3066a0d903If you work in HR, People and Culture, or you lead a team that has gone quiet, this is the conversation to bring to your organization.Connect with CaitGet your copy of Mismatch: https://caitdonovan.com/mismatchOrder Mismatch for your team (bulk copies): [email protected] Cait to speak: https://bit.ly/bookcaitWatch the 3-minute sizzle reel: https://bit.ly/caitdreel2025Instagram: https://instagram.com/caitdonovanspeaksLinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/caitdonovanspeaksXOXO, CAbout the HostCait Donovan is a burnout expert, keynote speaker, and host of FRIED. The Burnout Podcast, a top 1% global show with over 1 million downloads and 360+ episodes, ending burnout culture since 2019. With a background in biobehavioral sciences and Traditional Chinese Medicine, she helps organizations find the mismatch behind burnout instead of blaming the people inside it. She is the author of The Bouncebackability Factor and Mismatch: Why Good People Burn Out in Good Organizations.#straightfromcait #friedfam #endburnoutculture

"The same year that I filed bankruptcy, I was inducted into the Hall of Fame." Jess PettittOn Inauguration Day, my friend Jess Pettitt lost her largest contract. Not because of anything she did. The entire office she worked with was closed 21 minutes after the inauguration, and the people she'd been working with called her from the sidewalk, holding boxes of everything that had been on their desks. Then the state contracts went. Then the retainers. Twenty years of building a business, flipped in a minute. Bankruptcy. Depression. And in the middle of all of it, a call from the National Speakers Association: you're being inducted into the Hall of Fame.This is not a highlight reel, and neither is her new book, Doing Good Better: Using Dysfunction as a Catalyst for Change.In this episode, I sit down with Jess to talk about what really happens when everything falls apart at once, and why so many leaders end up burnt out and alone in it, convinced nobody can help them. We get into her five-stage climb for organizations in crisis, why most companies run on a story that's "reported up instead of verified across," the difference between planting a flag and hanging up decoration, and why the mess you're afraid of is already there. If you lead people, this is burnout prevention at the system level, not a pedicure.Key Topics Covered:What it's like to lose your largest contract 21 minutes into a new administration, and the wave of losses that followedFiling bankruptcy and being inducted into the Speaker Hall of Fame in the same year, and holding joy and tragedy at onceWhy your identity being tied to your work makes a professional crisis a personal oneThe leaders who believe "no one can help me," why they feel so alone, and why that loneliness is disempoweringInternal pressure vs. external pressure, and learning to function inside the pressure without doing it aloneWhy so many leadership books ignore the fact that leaders are humanThe climb: know your numbers, hold the line, earn the room, plant the flag, outlast the cycleHow organizations evolve into "a story that is reported up instead of verified across," and why no one is reading the quarterly reportThe CEO of 80,000 employees still running his company like it had four peopleCooperatition: why cooperating with your competition is how you actually earn the roomPlanting a flag vs. decoration: what Anthropic and Costco got right, and why a statement for your website isn't a valueWhy the mess is already there, and why recognizing it is the hardest (and most important) stepQuotes:"The same year that I filed bankruptcy, I was inducted into the Hall of Fame as a lifetime achievement for the 20 years of work." (13:42 | Jess Pettitt)"Loneliness is disempowering." (20:19 | Jess Pettitt)"Not to relieve the pressure, but to function inside the pressure, not alone. Now we can get somewhere." (22:28 | Jess Pettitt)"So many leadership books are written in a way that ignores the fact that leaders are human." (22:50 | Cait Donovan)"No one is reading that report. But above that, no one read it. No one knows anything because no one read it." (35:50 | Jess Pettitt)"That's not planting a flag. That's decoration. I don't do decorations." (52:58 | Jess Pettitt)"You are in a mess that you either do or don't acknowledge. You're not searching for a mess. It's already there." (55:56 | Jess Pettitt)In this episode, we mentioned...Doing Good Better: Using Dysfunction as a Catalyst for Change, by Jessica PettittGood Enough Now, by Jessica PettittMismatch: Why Good People Burn Out in Good Organizations, by Cait Donovan (out October 27, 2026)The National Speakers Association and the Speaker Hall of FameMaslow's hierarchy of needsHow a Leader's Ego Can Burn Out Their Team with Ewa Błaszczak (FRIED #362): https://redcircle.com/shows/e4c0db0a-98a4-47e6-a2b0-6a291469e1d6/episodes/b700a7df-0551-43c9-a090-8dbf1c7d235fYour Team Already Knows You're Burnt Out: Leadership, Capacity and the Busy Badge, with Anton Gunn (FRIED #366): https://redcircle.com/shows/e4c0db0a-98a4-47e6-a2b0-6a291469e1d6/episodes/bf0988c2-d195-4618-8bd0-3b0f86c956fbDaisy Auger-Dominguez: Burnt Out Leaders Lead Burnt Out Teams (FRIED, Sep 2024): https://redcircle.com/shows/e4c0db0a-98a4-47e6-a2b0-6a291469e1d6/episodes/ffa7b9d6-0632-4b0f-bb12-0960a7c04459#straightfromcait: How to Ask for Help (FRIED #10): https://redcircle.com/shows/e4c0db0a-98a4-47e6-a2b0-6a291469e1d6/episodes/6a6bd8f1-6666-4018-97d5-a73c4545a75dConnect with Jess PettittJess Pettitt, CSP, CPAE, is a leadership and crisis communications keynote speaker and advisor. She started out as a university administrator by day and a stand-up comic by night in New York City's comedy clubs, and spent 20+ years doing diversity, equity and inclusion work with more than 1,400 organizations and half a million audience members. In 2026 she was inducted into the National Speakers Association's Speaker Hall of Fame. Her newest book, Doing Good Better, is a no-fluff guide for leaders who sense a crisis, are in one, or might be the crisis.Take the 6-question advisory survey: https://jesspettitt.com/advisory-surveyWebsite: https://jesspettitt.comBook: Doing Good Better: Using Dysfunction as a Catalyst for ChangeConnect with CaitBook Cait to speak: https://bit.ly/bookcaitWatch the 3-min sizzle reel: https://bit.ly/caitdreel2025Order Mismatch for your team (bulk copies): [email protected]: https://linkedin.com/in/caitdonovanspeaksInstagram: https://instagram.com/caitdonovanspeaksIf you work in HR, People and Culture, or you book speakers for leaders who are carrying more than anyone can see, this is for you.About the HostCait Donovan is a burnout expert, keynote speaker, and host of FRIED. The Burnout Podcast, a top 1% global show with over 1 million downloads and 360+ episodes, ending burnout culture since 2019. With a background in biobehavioral sciences and Traditional Chinese Medicine, she helps organizations find the mismatch behind burnout instead of blaming the people inside it. She is the author of The Bouncebackability Factor and Mismatch: Why Good People Burn Out in Good Organizations.

Preorder Mismatch (out October 27, 2026): https://caitdonovan.com/mismatch"I just, for the first time, realized that I'm not actually in a toxic workplace. I'm just in a bad match." From an email a coaching client sent me.For almost three years, a woman in one of our UNFRIED coaching cohorts kept calling her workplace toxic. Then she listened to my episode on what "toxic" actually means according to the research, and she sent me that email. Nothing about her job changed that weekend. What changed was the story. The blame and the finger pointing dropped, and a much more useful question showed up: where's the mismatch?That question is the whole book. Burnout isn't a personal failure, and it isn't always a bad company. It's a symptom of a mismatch between a person and the place they work, and it's not the only symptom. My new book, Mismatch: Why Good People Burn Out in Good Organizations, comes out October 27, 2026, and this week my friend Jess Pettitt, Hall of Fame speaker and author of Doing Good Better, turns the mic around and interviews me about it.We talk about how a book about burnout stopped being about burnout, the cold email that turned into a book deal, why somebody could have built me a utopian workplace and I still would have burnt out, and the Mismatch Index I built so organizations can find the gap without ever weaponizing the results. We also get into why there are zero books on how to be a better employee, why leaders are being told to act like therapists, what it would look like to stop top-downing and start middling out, and why the one page I'd keep from the whole book is about interoception. (Yes, pee when you need to pee.)Key Topics Covered:How a book about burnout became a book about mismatch, and why mismatch underlies all of our people problemsThe cold email that turned into a book deal, after I'd self-published my first bookBurnout as a party of one: when you're the solopreneur and also the boss you should be blamingWhy a utopian workplace wouldn't have saved me, and how the coping mechanisms that made me successful (hello, hyper-independence) turned on meBurnout, attrition, disengagement and quiet quitting as symptoms of the same mismatchThe Mismatch Index: an assessment that shows which part of the gap is systemic, which part is leadership, and which part is you, and why companies only ever see aggregate resultsWhy we default to blame, and why every book on the shelf is about being a better leader and none are about being a better employeeWhat the fraud triangle and whistleblowers taught me about why good people go against the grainLeaders are being told to be therapists, and the case for middling out instead of top-downingThe four behaviors that make a workplace actually toxic (ostracism, bullying, harassment and incivility), and why you should get out if you're being harmedHow to hire without building mismatch into your team, starting with your own leadership training and a real fit tool instead of your gutThe paper plate exercise, interoception, and the story behind the matches on the coverQuotes:"I'm the boss that I should be blaming." (07:36 | Cait Donovan)"Somebody could have created a utopian workplace for me and I would have burnt out anyway." (08:51 | Cait Donovan)"I started this book about burnout and now it's not about burnout anymore. It's about mismatch, and mismatch underlies all of our people problems." (13:43 | Cait Donovan)"The company will never get the individual results. They only get aggregate results, because I will not allow this tool to be weaponized in any way, shape or form." (15:28 | Cait Donovan)"You're decorating it, not fixing it." (17:30 | Jess Pettitt)"Every single book I came across was how to make a better leader. There were zero books, not one book on how to be a better employee." (19:59 | Cait Donovan)"Why are we always top-downing? Why can't we middle out?" (27:16 | Cait Donovan)In this episode, we mentioned...Mismatch: Why Good People Burn Out in Good Organizations, by Cait Donovan (out October 27, 2026): https://caitdonovan.com/mismatchThe Bouncebackability Factor, by Cait DonovanDoing Good Better: Using Dysfunction as a Catalyst for Change, by Jessica PettittChristina Maslach, Wilmar Schaufeli and Michael Leiter's research on burnout and the six areas of mismatchJustin Patton, the trust guyThe Predictive IndexThe fraud triangleThe 4 Behaviors of A Toxic Workplace, a #straightfromcait episodeToxic or Just a Bad Fit? How to Tell the Difference at Work, with Leanne ElliottBurnout Is Not Your Fault, It's a Mismatch: An Early Look at My New Book (FRIED #365)Can You Burn Out in a Good Workplace? (FRIED #363)#straightfromcait: Coping Mechanisms and Burnout: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly (FRIED #2)Connect with Jess PettittJess Pettitt, CSP, CPAE, is a leadership and crisis communications keynote speaker and advisor. She started out as a university administrator by day and a stand-up comic by night in New York City's comedy clubs, and has spent 20+ years working with more than 1,400 organizations and half a million audience members. In 2026 she was inducted into the National Speakers Association's Speaker Hall of Fame. Her newest book is Doing Good Better: Using Dysfunction as a Catalyst for Change.Website: https://jesspettitt.comTake the 6-question advisory survey: https://jesspettitt.com/advisory-surveyBook: Doing Good Better: Using Dysfunction as a Catalyst for ChangeConnect with CaitPreorder Mismatch (out October 27, 2026): https://caitdonovan.com/mismatchOrder Mismatch for your team (bulk copies): [email protected] Cait to speak: https://bit.ly/bookcaitWatch the 3-min sizzle reel: https://bit.ly/caitdreel2025LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/caitdonovanspeaksInstagram: https://instagram.com/caitdonovanspeaksIf you work in HR, People and Culture, or you lead a team that looks great on paper and is still burning out, this is for you.About the HostCait Donovan is a burnout expert, keynote speaker, and host of FRIED. The Burnout Podcast, a top 1% global show with over 1 million downloads and 360+ episodes, ending burnout culture since 2019. With a background in biobehavioral sciences and Traditional Chinese Medicine, she helps organizations find the mismatch behind burnout instead of blaming the people inside it. She is the author of The Bouncebackability Factor and Mismatch: Why Good People Burn Out in Good Organizations.Podcast production and show notes by Starlin Media: https://starlinmedia.com