Nine Lives With Jeff King: Live Your Best One

Kathy Escobar returns to Nine LIves to explore the joys and struggles of living in community—especially through the lens of an Enneagram Two. She opens up about learning to set boundaries, navigating faith shifts, and the deeply personal journey of learning to receive help. In this powerful episode, Kathy shares how the loss of her son to suicide continues to shape her story and her ongoing evolution. She speaks candidly about grief, healing, and the loss of a faith community—and how those experiences have deepened her understanding of compassion and connection. Kathy highlights the crucial stretch for Enneagram Twos: receiving help from others. Kathy draws from the nurturing nature of Type 2 to create safe, authentic spaces through The Refuge in Denver and CommunityHeals, which she co-leads with her husband, Jose. She's also the author of several books, including her latest: Turning Over Tables: A Lenten Call for Disrupting Power. Learn more at kathyescobar.com and communityheals.com.

Leslie Quilico offers an honest and insightful look at life through the lens of an Enneagram Type Three. While Threes are known for their drive and success, Leslie shares how she's learning that there is more to life. That said, she's also learning to embrace her drive for meaningful accomplishment. A natural achiever, she admits: "If we can make it a competition, it will be more fun!" — yet she challenges herself (and us) to stay grounded in what really matters. As a leadership coach and Certified TrustCentric Guide, Leslie blends Enneagram wisdom with her passion for trust-building, especially among women leaders and small businesses. She drops gems like: ✨ "Everyone can have a PhD in doing what you say you're going to do." ✨ "If you're willing to do the work at work, it affects your whole life." ✨ "Trust is simple—follow through with your promises." Connect with Leslie on LinkedIn, Instagram, or Facebook, or reach her at lesliequilico@gmail.com or leslie@trustcentricconsulting.com.

Brian Mueller on the Enneagram One Journey Brian Mueller shares his experience as an Enneagram One, exploring the inner critic's powerful call to "do the right thing." Brian discusses how recognizing his Type One structure helps him regulate it, using awareness and practice to avoid being confined by his Type.  Brian also highlights the ongoing work of returning to presence—not just getting grounded, but continually regrounding. He helps men discover identity and purpose through powerfully unique processes through  Illuman. Find his poetry at brianmueller.com. Find his work with spiritual formation at Choosing Presence.

In this episode, I sit down with Brandon Graves and unpack the patterns and structure of the Enneagram Four. Like many, Brandon initially mistyped himself, thinking he was a Three. Over time, he discovered his true home in Four. Brandon shares key insights into the core traits of Fours—deep emotions, comparison, envy, and the ongoing pursuit of feeling "enough." Beyond the Enneagram, Brandon is an accomplished drummer, instructor, and studio musician. He plays with various bands, including his wife's band, Christena Graves, and regularly performs at Vintage Church in Lawrence, KS. 🔗 Connect with Brandon on his social media handle, @beatcaster, and: 🌐 brandongravesmusic.com 🌐 christenagravesmusic.com

Shelby Hay shares her journey as an entrepreneur through the lens of an Enneagram Four. She opens up about the highs and lows of business, the struggle with comparison, and the challenge of feeling "not enough." With honesty and creativity, Shelby reveals how she overcame self-doubt and found joy in the process. She offers practical tools to break free from self-defeating emotions and Enneagram Fours' pattern of envy. Her insights serve as a great resource to all Enneagram Fours! Discover more about her work at Sunny Day Party Art and follow her on social media under the same name.

Musician, pastor, leader and all-around-great-human John Flynn reflects on the stuff of life that really matters. John emphasizes the role of community in creating a balanced, healthy life as well as shaping our approach to leadership. As an Enneagram Type One, John has firsthand experience navigating the drive for perfection. Through his music, leadership, and relationships, he continues to soften the inner critic, exemplifying the arc of growth within the Type One structure. An accomplished guitarist, John plays with several bands and can be heard most Sundays at Vintage Church in Lawrence, KS, where he also serves as the Community Life Pastor. For more about Vintage, go to https://vintagelawrence.com  Find out more about the Enneagram and the work of Transmuto at https://www.transmuto.org 

David Tensen returns to the show to explore the importance of "eldering"—living with sacrificial love in later life. He introduces key concepts like "decentric eldering," "transcend and include," and "stages of faith." Based in Australia, David exemplifies how healthy Enneagram Nines show up and make a meaningful impact in the world. He's also a poet, author, and advocate for emotionally healthy spirituality. Learn more about David and his work, including his latest project with the Collective Wisdom Academy, at www.davidtensen.com.  

This episode wraps up Season Seven of Nine Lives, where we've been exploring the Enneagram through panel work.  Our finale focuses on Enneagram Six. Dan Gregg, Christine Flower and Craig Hinca join me in an engaging and insightful examination of the Enneagram Six structure. A key feature of Type 6 is the ongoing thought process Sixes experience. Their thoughts consist of worries, doubts and planning for safety and security. As the panelists describe, one thought leads to another and to another and to another--like tree branches or spider webs; unending and connected. Dan, Christine and Craig detail their processes of overcoming worry and fear, learning to trust their own agency. They provide insights to silencing their inner committees and gaining permission to stop planning and strategizing. Dan is a retired paramedic and firefighter. He is currently studying to be chef and is a transformational speaker. You can follow Dan on Instagram @jdangregg66. Christine is an educator and blogger. Her website is https://thecenterededucator.com and you can follow her on Instagram @thecenterededucator. Craig is an administrative analyst and consultant, spiritual director, licensed minister and artist. Follow him on Instagram @craighinca, contact him at hincacraig@gmail.com, and find more of his work at https://churchwell.co Find more about Jeff's work at https://www.transmuto.org/ 

Billie McGraw, Cindy Payne and Lynda Rands join together in this robust panel of Enneagram Threes. As is clear from these panelists, the Enneagram Three structure is one of energy, drive, productivity, and performing. At the top of the list comes efficiency, which can be both a superpower for the Three, but also can be their blind spot. Billie, Cindy and Lynda venture into vulnerable territory as they discuss the deceitful side of the Three structure. They explore other features of Type 3, such as Threes' reputation of being chameleons and their struggle with feelings.  They raise the question, "Is there anything productive in knowing how I feel? Why does it matter how I feel when the job needs to get done?" Billie is a real estate agent in Flagstaff. You can follow her on Instagram @Flagstaffrealtorbilliemcgraw. Her website is https://billiemcgraw.com/ Cindy is an executive director of a nonprofit and is a self-proclaimed failure at retirement. Upon retiring, she promptly earned her PhD. She also resides in Flagstaff. Lynda has been a coach and resides in the greater St. Louis area. For more on Jeff's work, go to https://www.transmuto.org/ 

Roger Hornbeck, Cody Harris and Josiah Goff comprise this panel of those leading with Enneagram Type 5. The Enneagram 5 structure is built around analyzing, assessing and calculating as the go-to strategy for self-protection. Enneagram Fives employ an internal energy calculus to filter their feelings and assess their participation in life.   Leading with Type 5, Roger, Cody and Josiah possess natural cognitive intelligence that resides in the head center of the Enneagram. They trace their respective journeys of deepening their human experience by developing emotional intelligence, based in the heart center of the Enneagram. This, in turn, has led them to deeper, more effective relationships. Roger is a spiritual director and speaker. He and is wife, Sharon, lead the organization Transformation of the Heart (www.transformationoftheheart.com).  Cody and Josiah host EnneagramFive (www.enneagramfive.com), a podcast devoted to, you guessed it, exploring Enneagram Type 5.  Find out more about Jeff's work at www.transmuto.org.

Panelists Kat Lipka, Kimberly Holt and Kezia Shine form this panel of Enneagram Twos and brilliantly describe the Type 2 structure. The constant, underlying energy of Enneagram Two consists of giving attention to others' needs and longing to be helpful. While this is one of Type 2's superpowers, it also can be a blind spot for 2's.  Kat, Kimberly and Kezia unpack this tension with clarity and vulnerability. Our conversation reveals their hearts of compassion and natural gifts of bringing healing to others. Together, they demonstrate the incredible gifts that Enneagram Twos bring to our world. Kat works with The Educator Academy, Kansas City, whose mission is to prepare teachers to create transformative and equitable classroom experiences for all students in the communities they serve. Find more at https://educator-academy.org. Kezia is a chiropractor in the Kansas City metro area. Find more at https://www.drshinekc.com. You can also follow her on Facebook and on Instagram @drkeziashine. Kimberly is a couples and family therapist in the Philadelphia area. You can find more at https://councilforrelationships.org/therapist/kimberly-holt-ms-mft. Find more about Jeff's work at https://www.transmuto.org. 

Cherri Rodriguez, Andy Houltberg and Richard Haynes join me to form an Enneagram Nine panel. Our conversation proves quite engaging for four Nines!!! Our panelists discuss the harmonizing energy of the Nine structure that continuously operates at the gut level. While Enneagram Nines appear calm and peaceful on the outside, there is a lot of churning and angst going on beneath the surface. Enneagram 9s are unpretentious and empathetic. Known as peacemakers and mediators, Nines sit at the top of the Enneagram circle and "see" all other eight perspectives. They find themselves unconsciously merging into others' agenda. As Cherri brilliantly states, the task of the Enneagram 9 is to take a front seat in their own life. The panelists share several practical strategies for Nines to be more present and accounted for. Cherri is a nonprofit fundraising coach. Her website is www.fruitfulfundraising.co. Find her on Facebook at Fruitful Fundraising Co and on Instagram @fruitfulfundraisingco.  Richard is a coach and owns Empower Potential Coaching. Find him at www.empowerpotentialcoaching.com, and on LinkedIn. He hosts the Fill Up Podcast.  Andy is an Episcopal Priest and is the CEO of Breakthrough Wichita, an organization dedicated to helping people breakthrough the cycle of poverty and mental illness. Find Andy on LinkedIn. Jeff's website is www.transmuto.org. 

Anna Peterson, Susan Johnson, and Steve Garlow combine forces to form our panel of those leading with Enneagram Type 1. They masterfully excavate the Enneagram One structure to provide a clear picture of how the Type 1 personality operates. Enneagram Type 1 is known for its strong, unrelenting inner critic. As our panelists relate, the inner critic is an ever-present reality. Anna, Susan, and Steve agree, the One structure often causes them to be their own worst critic. That said, our panelists offer real hope that the inner critic doesn't have to dominate. Through centering practices, forming trusting relationships, regulating self-dialogue and pursuing spiritual formation, they have learned to have an inner critic rather than the inner critic having them.  Anna, Susan, and Steve show us the strengths and gifts that the Enneagram One structure offers as well. Ones are conscientious, skilled, compassionate and live with integrity. Their pursuit of excellence is a superpower they offer the world. Jeff's website is www.transmuto.org.

This Enneagram panel guides us into a clearer look of the often misunderstood personality structure of Type 8. The panel, consisting of Sharon Hornbeck, Jorja White and Rachel Leduc, exemplifies all the qualities Eights are known for: energy, passion, power, take-charge attitude, laughter and, the underside, being misunderstood. Believing they can do anything and everything, Enneagram Eights often don't know when to let go, even when life's challenges overwhelm and exhaust them. It's as if they become addicted to the struggle.  These amazing women also provide insight into a specific challenge of the Eight structure--leading with Enneagram 8 AND being women. Adding to the intrigue, they discuss possessing the Eight energy as women in religious communities. Find Jorja on Instagram @jorjawhitecoaching. On LinkedIn, it's Jorja White. Her website is www.findingrokovoko.com. Find Sharon at www.transformationoftheheart.com.  Jeff's website is www.transmuto.org. 

Enneagram Fours are known for their deep introspection and creative genius. Combine these elements, and we get some of the brigthest and best expressions of the human experience and some of the darkest. In this episode Susan Kingston, Drayton Riley and George Patton create a distinguished panel of those leading with Enneagram Four. They combine wisdom, life experience and storytelling to give us a unobstructed view into the Four structure. We discover that the most creative work of Type 4 often happens internally in the stories that Enneagram Fours spin in their heads. Unchecked, an ongoing drama of melancholy unfolds to reinforce the Four's internal shame and fear of not belonging.  Susan, Drayton and George also exhibit all the amazing gifts we come to expect from those leading with Type 4: emotional intelligence, authenticity, vulnerability, compassion and empathy.

Season Seven features panels of each Enneagram Type, and kicking us off in grand style is our panel of Enneagram Type Seven, Sr. Anna-Camille, Jeannie Armbruster and Margarita Pelaez-King. Together this panel unpacks the motivations, beliefs and fears that alchemize to fuel and shape the Seven structure. Sevens are known for their energy, optimism and pursuit for the next best thing, but this drive often masks a boding sense of a dark cloud chasing them. The panelists do a masterful job of exploring the Seven persona and their growth to stay present in their reality. Sr. Anna-Camille is a Benedictine sister in Washington state. Jeannie is an Enneagram practitioner in the Philadelphia area (www.yourtruestyou.com), and Margarita resides in Virginia with her family and is an HR specialist.

My dear friend, Jorja White, concludes this season with a transparent conversation about her journey of healing and her desire to bring healing to the world. Jorja leads with Enneagram Type Eight. Eights often have the rap of being angry and insensitive. But Eights that do their work prove to be incredible change agents. They are able to combine their tenderness with their energy to bring justice to the world. Jorja masterfully describes the difference between necessary, or real, suffering and unnecessary suffering.  Find Jorja on Instagram @jorjawhitecoaching. On LinkedIn, it's Jorja White. Her website is www.findingrokovoko.com.  A gentle heads up. Jorja discusses her experience with psychedilics in this episode. I recognize that not everyone will share her opinions about this topic. But I want to provide a safe platform for my guests to freely share their story.

Author, coach and spiritual director Ben DeLong explores the ongoing journey of spiritual formation and personal development. He courageously tackles the tasks of resolving trauma, pursuing emotional health and coming home to himself. Ben leads with Enneagram Type 4. He is the author of There's a God in My Closet, Becoming Home, and The Path to Self-Acceptance (offered as a free ebook). He's a man of many talents, but his greatest passion is forging meaningful relationships with his family--a pursuit that inolves its share of disappointment and pain. Ben models the pursuit of authenticity and depth of meaning that earmarks the Enneagram Four structure. He serves as a trusted guide in this ongoing journey. Find more about Ben at www.bdelong.com.  

My dear friend from across the pond, Alan Hogetts, and I sit down for a vulnerable and emotionally impactful conversation about moving into our elder years, facing death and bringing healing to our world. Alan, who leads as an Enneagram 4, is a retired Anglican priest. Much of his vocational  ministry focused on being a prison chaplain. Currently Alan offers "Enneagram informed" spiritual direction. He leads a parish program called "Nine Ways to See the World."  Alan slips several gems of wisdom in the course of our conversation. He emphasizes that while we cannot change how we are wired, we can learn to relax our wiring. He believes that love is our chemotherapy we offer the world. And he identifies the impact of those who tend to the work of self-awareness. "When we are with someone who has done their work and are continuing to do their work, we want to get quiet, listen and absorb." May we follow Alan's footsteps. Cheers, my brother.

Author, speaker, coach and professional cyclist Abi Robins reveals their unexpected discovery how bicycling creates an opportunity for deep spiritual work. Abi leads as an Enneagram 8, and discloses how they're learning to embrace the vulnerability that cycling elicits. Abi is the author of The Conscious Enneagram, an incredibly useful and practical handbook for leveraging the wisdom of the Enneagram to create personal and collective transformation. They are discovering that the transformative work of the Enneagram shows up in unexpected places like bike riding. Abi reminds us that Enneagram Eights are not the only Type that avoids vulnerability. Each Type seeks to avoid vulnerability in their own way. Abi clarifies the Eight's motivation as avoiding weakness.   Find Abi at www.consciousenneagram.com. Follow them on social media by hashtagging the domain name. Subscribe to their podcast Conscious Construction. Look for announcements of Abi's upcoming book on the spiritual practice of riding a bike.