Excess Returns

In this episode, we sit down with Jim Paulsen to analyze the latest economic and market data through his lens of decades of market experience. Jim shares insights from his Paulsen Perspectives research, covering the job market, the Fed, inflation, valuations, investor confidence, and what they all mean for the future of the economy and markets. We explore why confidence is so low despite a bull market, how Fed policy is shaping market dynamics, and where investors might want to focus as the cycle evolves.Topics covered in the episode:The job market’s pivotal role in driving the economy and Fed decisionsWhy recent Fed rate cuts may mark a turning point in market support systemsThe narrowness of the bull market and how innovation-driven firms diverge from traditional cyclesInvestor confidence, the “misery index,” and recession probability modelsHow easing may broaden market participation beyond large-cap growthWhat “animal spirits” mean for small caps, high beta, and IPOsThe disconnect between inflation, bond yields, and growth measuresGold, cash, crypto, and tech as “fear assets” in today’s environmentThe impact of tariffs on profits, wages, and inflation expectationsValuations in context: historical perspective and the upward bias of multiplesTimestamps:00:00 Introduction and market overview02:00 Fed easing, inflation, and recession risks09:00 Bull market without normal supports17:00 Narrow leadership and innovative companies23:55 Confidence and the misery index29:35 Yield curve, recession probabilities, and Fed policy34:00 Broadening of market participation37:00 Animal spirit stocks and small caps38:00 Inflation, bond yields, and resource unemployment43:20 Copper-gold ratio and yields45:10 The role of gold in portfolios50:00 Cash, crypto, and tech as defensive assets54:00 Tariffs, inflation, and profit margins59:00 Inflation persistence vs. wage growth01:01:10 Valuations and the upward bias in multiples01:07:00 Closing thoughts and takeaways

In this episode of Excess Returns, we sit down with John Tinsman, portfolio manager of the AOT Growth and Innovation ETF (AOTG). John shares how his investing journey began, the lessons he learned from both successes and failures, and how those experiences shaped his current investment philosophy. We dive deep into the concepts of low marginal cost, profitable growth, digital toll booths, and the transformative impact of AI. John also discusses his approach to valuation, position sizing, and why he believes large-cap growth and technology will continue to lead in the years ahead.Main topics covered:John’s path from personal investing to launching an ETFLessons learned from early stock picks and market-making experienceThe power of low marginal cost businesses and long-term compoundingHow AI is reshaping software development, innovation, and profitabilityThe importance of revenue and earnings growth in stock selectionDigital toll booths as the future of software business modelsDifferences between profitable vs. unprofitable growth companiesWhy technology leadership today differs from the dot-com eraThe role of sectors, valuation, and position sizing in portfolio constructionJohn’s views on growth vs. value, large-cap vs. small-cap, and future innovation trendsTimestamps:00:00 The riskiest thing in investing02:00 John’s background and early investing journey05:00 Lessons from Apple, Boeing, Visa, and Potash10:00 Insights from agriculture and value investing12:00 AI’s impact on software development and innovation16:00 Sectors, classifications, and thematic approaches18:00 Comparing AI disruption to past bubbles21:00 Profitability in today’s tech companies22:00 Will the top companies stay dominant?26:00 Large-cap vs. small-cap technology investing28:00 Growth vs. value in today’s market30:00 Demographics, Buffett’s lessons, and sector shifts34:00 Value vs. software companies35:00 Digital toll booths explained37:00 Growth sustainability and digital infrastructure40:00 Semiconductor cycles and long-term demand44:00 Screening for growth and low marginal cost47:00 Sell discipline and valuation checks49:00 Position sizing and portfolio management51:00 ETF tax benefits and structure53:00 Where AOTG fits in portfolios54:00 One belief peers disagree with56:00 One lesson for the average investor57:00 Closing thoughts and outro

In this episode of Excess Returns, we sit down with Joseph Shaposhnik, founder of Rainwater Equity and former star portfolio manager at TCW. Joseph shares the investment philosophy that drove his track record of outperformance, why he focuses on recurring revenue businesses, and how he evaluates management quality and capital allocation. We also explore lessons from great investors like Warren Buffett, Bill Miller, and Peter Lynch, along with insights on valuation, portfolio concentration, and the role of passive investing in today’s markets.Main topics covered:How Joseph achieved long-term outperformance at TCW and what drove his resultsWhy recurring revenue and predictable cash flows are central to his approachThe importance of management quality and identifying “fanatics” vs. mercenariesLessons investors should and should not take from Warren BuffettBill Miller’s influence and backing of Rainwater EquityCharacteristics Joseph looks for in great businesses and red flags in management teamsPortfolio concentration, position sizing, and risk managementWhy you don’t need to have an opinion on every sectorSelling discipline and knowing when it’s time to move onHow valuation fits into his framework and how he thinks about paying up for qualityThe impact of passive investing and why active managers must take a long-term viewStories and lessons from Peter Lynch, including his enduring influenceTimestamps:0:00 If a stock has doubled, you haven’t missed it1:00 Introduction and Joseph’s track record at TCW2:00 Keys to long-term outperformance8:00 Lessons from Warren Buffett’s wins and mistakes11:30 Bill Miller’s influence and support for Rainwater Equity14:00 What defines a high-quality business20:00 Free cash flow compounding and moats24:00 Red flags in management teams31:00 Why active management is broken and Joseph’s solution35:00 Portfolio concentration and risk management42:00 Sectors to avoid and why47:00 Joseph’s selling discipline53:00 Exceptional leaders and the role of management quality58:00 Valuation, future value, and the changing economy1:04:00 Passive investing and market distortions1:09:00 Lessons and stories from Peter Lynch1:14:00 Closing questions and key investing lessons1:20:00 Where to learn more about Joseph and Rainwater Equity

In this episode of Excess Returns, we sit down with Sam Ro to revisit his widely read post “10 Stock Market Truths” and explore how each principle holds up in today’s market. From the long game of investing to short-term risks, valuations, AI, and earnings, Sam shares a timeless framework for navigating markets and separating noise from signal.Topics covered:• Why the long game is undefeated• Short-term volatility and how to prepare for it• The myth of average returns• Asymmetric upside in markets and stocks• AI as both opportunity and risk• Earnings as the ultimate driver of stock prices• Why valuations don’t predict the next year• The role of uncertainty and hidden risks• Turnover and evolution within the stock market• Why the stock market isn’t the economyTimestamps:00:00 Average returns are misleading02:00 Introducing Sam Ro02:15 Truth #1: The long game is undefeated08:40 Truth #2: You can get smoked in the short term14:20 Do markets have a government backstop?18:00 Truth #3: The myth of average returns23:00 Truth #4: Asymmetric upside28:00 AI as macro and micro driver33:00 Truth #5: Earnings drive stock prices36:30 Truth #6: Valuations won’t tell you much about next year51:40 Truth #7: There will always be something to worry about55:20 Truth #8: The destabilizing risks are the ones people aren’t talking about01:05:00 Truth #9: There’s a lot of turnover in markets01:11:00 Truth #10: The stock market isn’t the economy01:20:00 Closing thoughts

In this episode, William Blair Global Strategist Olga Bitel joins us to unpack her “Perpetual Growth Machine” framework and what it means for investors navigating AI, tariffs, inflation volatility, market concentration, and a shifting global order. We dig into why growth often emerges from solving problems, how monopolies can stunt future innovation, where AI’s productivity dividends could accrue, and why she sees the next decade’s best opportunities outside the United States. Olga also walks through the risks she’s watching, why facts change faster than narratives, and practical ways to connect top-down insights with bottom-up research.Topics coveredThe Perpetual Growth Machine: why needs spark innovation and growth, and how investors can spot it earlyWhy monopolies look great to investors but hurt long-term growth and innovationAI as a general purpose technology and the scale of potential productivity savingsHousing affordability, incomes, and policy bottlenecks through the PGM lensHow firms are actually adopting AI and how faster data changes research cadenceEurope’s defense build-out and the rise of national champions and small-cap innovatorsInterpreting market concentration and what it signals about competitionInflation oscillation, policy mix, and why the Fed’s tools have limitsTariffs as a regressive tax and how costs pass through to consumers over timeUS exceptionalism narrowing and why ex-US markets may lead in the coming cycleThe Draghi report and tearing down barriers inside the EU single marketComparing late-1990s tech to today’s AI build-out and who the next leaders may beGrowth vs. value: focusing on sustained profit inflections, not cheapness aloneUsing stakeholder analysis to link macro themes to bottom-up stock workBiggest opportunities: Japan, Korea, Europe, select emerging markets, and parts of the Middle EastBiggest risk: a breakdown in the global order amid US-China tensionsClosing lessons: stay curious, stay nimble, question narratives, track the factsTimestamps00:00 Introduction and Olga’s role at William Blair02:49 The Perpetual Growth Machine explained06:24 Policy bottlenecks, incentives, and growth09:32 AI as a general purpose technology and productivity math11:53 Practical AI adoption inside investment firms15:06 Where PGM points to opportunity right now16:26 Europe’s defense spending and emerging winners19:02 Macro setup and consumer health20:42 Inflation today and what’s changed under the hood22:46 The Fed’s dilemma and limits of monetary policy25:00 Tariffs 101: who pays and how it shows up28:55 Early evidence in goods prices29:41 US exceptionalism vs. the rest of the world31:00 The Draghi report and a real EU single market33:11 Can Europe and others catch up in tech?36:15 EU financial services barriers and capital deployment37:07 Portfolio implications: why look ex-US39:10 Late-1990s tech vs. today’s AI cycle41:20 Concentration risk and competition policy42:26 Value vs. growth through the PGM lens44:48 Base rates, sustaining growth, and churn at the top49:33 Marrying macro themes with bottom-up research51:08 Firsthand observation vs. headline narratives52:20 Biggest opportunities across regions53:00 Middle East changes and new listings54:48 Biggest risk: global order and US-China tensions55:36 Parting advice for investors

Ned Davis Research’s Chief Global Investment Strategist Tim Hayes joins us to break down NDR’s “360°” weight-of-the-evidence framework—how price, breadth, sentiment, macro and valuation fit together—and what those signals are saying right now. We dig into why he still classifies this as a secular bull market with rising secular-bear risks, how to separate real breadth thrusts from dead-cat bounces, the evolving bond/equity correlation, mega-cap concentration risk, the case for value/EM in a defensively rotating tape, and why gold’s secular and cyclical trends remain compelling. You’ll also hear how NDR allocates across stocks, bonds, cash (and gold), and Tim’s timeless lesson for investors: stay objective, disciplined, and flexible.Topics CoveredNDR’s 360° process: price + sentiment + macro + valuation, combined via equal-weighted composites (“weight of the evidence”)How to use breadth, put/call, and thrust signals without getting faked outSecular bull vs. secular bear: what would actually trigger the secular turnReading the bond market: why the stock/bond correlation flipped in 2022 and what a 10-year above approximately 5.0–5.25% could meanConcentration risk in mega-cap tech; implications for the U.S. vs. the rest of the worldWhere value, small caps, and EM can shine in defensive rotationsGold: drivers of the move, secular/cyclical setup, and role in a balanced allocationPractical allocation: when cash was king (2022), current market-weight posture, and sizing for gold“No Pets Allowed”: why aggregates beat single “pet” indicatorsUsing historical analogs carefully—and what to learn (and not learn) from themTim’s core lesson: you can’t forecast reliably—stay flexible and evidence-drivenTimestamps (YouTube Chapters)00:00 Don’t fight the tape—or the Fed (opening context)01:06 Intro and why NDR’s process beats single charts02:58 NDR’s 360° framework and composite models05:31 Indicators that matter: breadth, sentiment, macro/valuation08:11 Asset-allocation model (stocks/bonds/cash) and real-time record09:27 “Secular bull intact; secular-bear risk rising” explained13:04 What counts as a secular bear (’66–’82, 2000–’09)15:05 Tightening vs. easing cycles and thrust reliability16:22 What a breadth thrust actually looks like19:55 From sentiment extremes to 50/200-day confirmation20:06 Bonds and stocks: the correlation flip since 202222:47 Duration, rate-cut hopes, and why cash led in 202224:02 Mega-cap concentration risk—paths from here27:23 Valuation: tech earnings yield at extremes; U.S. most expensive29:14 Where value/small caps/EM can win; China’s role in EM33:25 Gold’s standout year—drivers and positioning36:16 Gold’s secular and cyclical bull case37:13 How much gold belongs in a balanced portfolio40:32 “No Pets Allowed”: trust aggregates, not single signals47:16 Bear-watch vs. rally-watch signals in 202549:02 Using historical analogs without overfitting51:00 NDR culture: objectivity over narratives53:41 Why independence matters53:59 Two closing questions: contrarian belief and one lesson59:03 Where to find Tim and NDR; disclaimer

In this episode of Excess Returns, we sit down with Brent Donnelly, veteran trader, author, and president of Spectra Markets, to dive deep into macro markets, trading philosophy, the role of the Fed, and how AI is changing the way traders operate. Brent shares insights from his decades in FX and macro trading, his flexible approach to positioning, and the lessons he’s learned about risk management, narratives, and humility in markets.Topics Covered:Why the Fed is becoming more political and what that means for marketsThe “re-acceleration that wasn’t” and lessons from quickly abandoning tradesHow to structure trades like gold calls and TLT puts for asymmetric payoffFX as the “exhaust valve” for tariffs and global capital flowsCanada’s housing bubble and CAD vulnerabilitiesInflation targeting, bond vigilantes, and the Fed’s credibilityAvoiding the trap of perma-bearishness and using stop-losses as forced humilityThe importance of imagination in regime changes and Fed forecast errorsHow Brent is using LLMs and AI to trade headlines, structure trades, and analyze patternsTrading bubble names with options and risk-aware structuresLessons on flexibility, humility, and embracing uncertainty in marketsTimestamps:00:00 – Fed independence and political pressure02:00 – The failed “re-acceleration” thesis06:00 – Structuring gold calls and TLT puts14:00 – FX as the exhaust valve for tariffs20:50 – Canada’s housing market and CAD risks26:30 – The Fed as a political institution32:40 – Inflation targeting and 3% as the new 2%35:20 – Avoiding perma-bear bias and using stop-losses42:00 – The Fed dinner story and the humility of wrong forecasts46:30 – Using LLMs and AI in trading53:00 – Shorting bubble names with call spreads56:00 – Cheat sheets and pattern recognition with AI59:30 – Lessons on flexibility and humility in trading1:02:15 – Closing thoughts and where to follow Brent

In this episode of Excess Returns, we welcome back Cullen Roche of Discipline Funds for an in-depth conversation on the economy, markets, demographics, AI, and investing frameworks. Cullen cuts through the noise to explain the real forces shaping inflation, interest rates, the role of the Federal Reserve, and why he believes the U.S. faces more disinflationary pressures than inflationary risks. We also dive into his “defined duration” investing framework and preview his upcoming work on portfolio strategies.Topics CoveredWhy fears of a looming debt crisis may be misplacedInflation outlook, tariffs, and the Fed’s “soft landing” challengeThe importance of Fed independence and risks of politicizationImmigration, demographics, and long-term disinflationary trendsHow AI is reshaping productivity, inequality, and the job marketDefined Duration Investing and asset-liability matchingLessons from all-weather strategies and the Permanent PortfolioCullen’s “Forward Cap Portfolio” and future of global marketsTimestamps00:00 – Cullen on debt crisis fears02:32 – State of the U.S. economy post-COVID05:18 – Inflation, tariffs, and shelter costs10:25 – Soft landing vs. rolling recessions14:07 – The Fed’s role and impossible job19:25 – National debt and Ray Dalio’s crisis warning27:52 – AI boom and disinflationary forces31:01 – Immigration, demographics, and inflation37:23 – Aging population and wealth inequality43:00 – How AI impacts productivity and jobs52:00 – Defined Duration Investing explained1:01:34 – Portfolio strategies: Permanent Portfolio & risk parity1:03:54 – Cullen’s “Forward Cap Portfolio”1:06:31 – Closing thoughts and future projects

In this episode of Excess Returns, we sit down with EricPachman of Bancreek Capital to explore the intersection of data, economics, andinvesting. Eric shares his unique journey from the corporate world tohealthcare transparency and ultimately to building a data-driven investmentfirm rooted in information theory. We dive deep into employment trends,healthcare’s role in the economy, immigration, inflation, and how hissystematic process identifies companies with the endurance to thrive. ### Topics Covered * Eric’s unconventional career path: from Morgan Stanley andExxonMobil to founding 46Brooklyn and joining Band Creek * How personal experiences led him to tackle healthcaretransparency and drug pricing reform * The role of **information theory** in investing and thefoundation of Band Creek’s systematic process * Building powerful data visualizations to understand labormarkets, inflation, and structural economic changes * Why healthcare dominates recent U.S. job growth and therisks of overreliance on one sector * The impact of immigration on labor force growth andstructural inflation * Key drivers of inflation and how to interpret CPI and PCEdata * How Band Creek applies systematic endurance and the KellyCriterion to equity selection * Sector exposures and lessons learned from applyingdata-driven models internationally * Eric’s views on cognitive biases, why most investors can’treliably beat the market, and the power of data analysis

In this episode of Excess Returns, we welcome back Cole Smead of Smead Capital for a wide-ranging conversation on markets, history, and the principles of value investing. Cole shares his perspectives on fiscal largesse, inflation, passive flows, energy markets, U.S. exceptionalism, and the timeless lessons of Buffett and Munger. His insights bridge economic history with today’s market realities, giving investors a framework to think about risk, capital allocation, and opportunity costs.Deficits, monetary policy, and why recessions are hard to find todayInflation dynamics and lessons from the 1960s and 1970sThe U.S. government’s role in markets (Intel stake, big government policies)American exceptionalism vs. global capital allocation improvementsEarnings quality and the divergence between accounting and economic profitsPassive investing flows, weak competition, and investor behaviorEnergy investing: from fracking bust to efficiency and capital disciplineComparing the AI boom with past manias and capital cyclesSmead Capital’s investment process and evaluating “wonderful companies”Buffett, Munger, and the lessons of asset-light vs. capital-intensive businessesClosing insights: why returns on capital matter more than EPS or revenue00:00 – Opening quote and fiscal deficits02:00 – Debt, inflation, and recession risks08:50 – Government stake in Intel & big government era12:15 – U.S. exceptionalism and arrogance17:30 – Earnings quality erosion in U.S. businesses24:00 – Passive flows and human behavior27:30 – Opportunities in energy investing34:00 – Energy buildout vs. AI boom38:00 – Smead Capital’s investment process44:00 – Lessons from Buffett and Munger51:00 – Standard closing question

In this episode of Excess Returns, we sit down with Brent Schutte, CIO of Northwestern Mutual, to discuss the current macro landscape and what it means for investors. Brent shares his balanced perspective on the Fed, inflation, tariffs, concentration risk in markets, and why diversification may be more important now than ever. With over 30 years of investing experience, Brent provides valuable lessons from past cycles that help put today’s environment in context.The Fed’s dual mandate and why both inflation and unemployment risks matterHow tariffs could reshape growth and inflation dynamicsMarket concentration and the dominance of the Magnificent SevenLessons from past cycles (1999 tech bubble, 2007 commodities, Japan in the 1980s)The role of diversification, including small/mid caps, international equities, and commoditiesActive vs. passive investing and how to evaluate managersRecession signals, rolling recessions, and hidden economic weaknessWhy humility and balance are essential in portfolio construction00:00 – Introduction & importance of diversification02:00 – The Fed’s mandate and tariffs’ impact on growth & inflation07:30 – Reaction to Powell’s Jackson Hole speech & Fed independence15:20 – Hidden recession, labor market signals & AI’s economic role20:30 – Reliability of recession indicators post-COVID26:00 – Tariffs, uncertainty & risks for investors28:40 – Market concentration and the Magnificent Seven34:00 – Rethinking diversification: 60/40, commodities, and international exposure41:20 – Lessons from past market cycles (Japan, dot-com, China, commodities)45:15 – Passive flows, active management, and evaluating skill vs. luck50:00 – Government stakes in companies (Intel discussion)52:00 – Standard closing questions & final lessons

In this episode of Excess Returns, we sit down with Shawn Gibson and Eric McArdle of Liquid Strategies to explore the rapidly growing world of option-based ETF strategies. With the rise of covered calls, buffered products, and hedged equity funds, it’s more important than ever for investors to separate smart solutions from risky marketing gimmicks. Shawn and Eric break down how their firm approaches overlays, income generation, and downside protection in a way that helps advisors and investors achieve better long-term outcomes.The evolution of options in ETFs and why adoption has acceleratedCommon flaws in covered call strategies and the risks investors missHow Liquid Strategies uses option overlays to add return, income, and downside protectionThe “Swiss Army knife” approach to using put spreads for multiple portfolio goalsThe importance of timeframe in option strategies and the debate around 0DTEWhy “high yield” products often just return investor capitalUsing options for true risk management and hedging vs. cosmetic protectionHow Liquid Strategies structures its ETF suite and interval fundsWhere hedged equity and bond overlays can serve as ballast in portfoliosStandard closing lessons for investors on staying invested and balancing risk00:01 – Introduction to Liquid Strategies and option-based ETFs02:34 – The rise of options in portfolios and industry evolution05:29 – Flaws in common options strategies08:19 – Covered calls: why they often disappoint12:00 – Balancing upside, downside, and income in overlays15:31 – What overlay strategies really mean20:19 – The “Swiss Army knife” of selling put spreads24:09 – Why timeframe matters and 0DTE options debate28:56 – How rates and volatility impact option overlays32:59 – The importance of systematic but flexible processes36:46 – High yield traps and returning investor capital43:04 – Using options for hedging and risk management46:47 – How advisors incorporate overlays into portfolios48:54 – ETFs vs. interval funds explained54:26 – Where overlays fit in today’s asset allocation57:55 – Closing lessons for investors

In this episode, Jim Paulsen of Paulsen Perspectives joins us to break down the state of the economy, the Fed’s policy stance, inflation risks, and what’s really happening beneath the surface of the stock market. Jim explains why the headline numbers often mask the struggles of many companies, why the S&P 500 looks stretched while much of the market remains undervalued, and what investors should watch as we head into the fall.Weak GDP growth, jobs slowdown, and why the U.S. may avoid recession despite sluggish dataHow fiscal policy, tariffs, the dollar, and monetary policy are shaping growthWhy corporate profits outside the S&P 500 remain below trend despite large-cap strengthThe Fed’s inflation obsession, the 2% target debate, and Jackson Hole policy shiftsJim’s case that inflation fears are overblown, with supporting data on CPI, PPI, wages, and expectationsHistorical supports for bull markets (liquidity, interest rates, dollar, confidence) and why they’ve been missingDivergence between S&P 500 valuations vs. the rest of the marketStructural disconnect between small/mid-caps and large-cap earningsThe opportunity for market broadening if the Fed eases policyWhat Jim will be watching heading into year-end00:00 – Economic growth slowdown and risks of recession02:00 – Policy backdrop: fiscal, monetary, dollar, and tariffs07:00 – Why recession may still be avoided15:00 – Powell, Jackson Hole, and the Fed’s inflation stance24:00 – Are inflation fears overblown?36:00 – Inflation surprise index and momentum37:00 – What supports bull markets (liquidity, rates, dollar, confidence)41:00 – Trendline analysis: S&P vs. broader market47:00 – Russell 2000 earnings vs. S&P 500 divergence52:00 – Corporate profits divergence and policy implications59:00 – What Jim is watching heading into year-end

In this episode of Excess Returns, we sit down with Mike Philbrick of Resolve Asset Management to discuss why the traditional 60/40 portfolio may no longer be enough, the role of “psychological commodities” like gold and Bitcoin, and how return stacking can change the way investors think about diversification. Mike shares insights on macro regimes, investor psychology, and why these once-fringe assets may now be foundational in building resilient portfolios.Topics Covered:Why the 1982–2020 period was a “golden era” for stocks and bondsHow today’s macro regime challenges traditional diversificationThe case for gold and Bitcoin as portfolio diversifiersDebt, inflation, and the shifting role of scarce assetsWhy lack of cash flows is a feature, not a bug, for gold & BitcoinGenerational differences in crypto adoption and advisor psychologyHow return stacking works and why it matters for investorsThe evolving regulatory and institutional landscape for BitcoinRisks: existential threats, quantum computing, policy changesTokenization, blockchain innovation, and the future of financeMike’s one lesson for the average investorTimestamps:00:00 – Why the 1982–2020 period was a golden era03:00 – Stocks, bonds, and changing correlations07:00 – Debt, inflation, and the macro backdrop10:00 – Gold, Bitcoin, and the cash flow debate14:20 – Why investors resist gold & Bitcoin19:00 – Generational divides and adoption rates23:00 – The evolution of gold and parallels to Bitcoin26:30 – What is Bitcoin? Digital gold vs growth asset28:30 – Career risk flipping: from owning to not owning32:00 – Behavioral biases and implementation frictions35:00 – Sizing matters: avoiding “all or nothing” mistakes36:00 – Market-cap weights and neutral allocations38:00 – Long-term real returns of gold & Bitcoin40:00 – Will Bitcoin and gold compete or complement?43:00 – Portfolio construction: risk-weighting gold & Bitcoin44:00 – Return stacking explained49:00 – Trend following and dead money periods51:00 – Risks: quantum computing, regulation, behavior56:00 – Tokenization, blockchain rails, and innovation1:01:13 – Mike’s one lesson for the average investor

Defined outcome ETFs have exploded in popularity, offering investors a way to combine downside protection with upside participation. In this episode of Excess Returns, we sit down with Jeff Chang of Vest Financial to break down the mechanics of buffer ETFs, how they fit into portfolios, the critiques they face, and where this space is headed. Jeff shares the origin story of Vest, the innovations that made these strategies accessible and how Buffer ETFs work behind the scenes.The origin of Vest and the impact of the Lehman collapse on product designHow buffer ETFs work and why they focus on the “first 10–15%” of drawdownsThe behavioral finance angle: making hedging simple and accessibleWhy 2022 highlighted the weaknesses of traditional 60/40 portfoliosThe mechanics of buffer ETFs: options structures and resetsPopular buffer levels and how investors are using themAddressing critiques: costs, beta instability, and comparisons to cash or commoditiesThe scalability of these strategies and potential market impactBehavioral vs. quantitative advantages of defined outcome fundsFuture developments, including applications to crypto and higher-volatility assetsJeff’s lessons on investing, risk management, and staying invested00:00 – Introduction and the growth of defined outcome strategies02:00 – The genesis of Vest Financial after Lehman’s collapse09:00 – Explaining buffer ETFs in simple terms14:00 – Who uses these strategies and why 2022 was a turning point18:00 – Mechanics of resets and protection at market highs22:00 – Range of buffers, caps, and investor demand27:00 – The options structures behind buffer ETFs30:00 – Liquidity, scalability, and market impact considerations34:00 – How investors are using buffers in portfolios38:00 – Tax efficiency inside the ETF wrapper39:00 – Addressing critiques: cash, commodities, and costs47:00 – Are these strategies more behavioral or quantitative?48:30 – The future of buffer strategies and expansion into crypto53:00 – Jeff’s contrarian investing belief54:00 – The one lesson Jeff would teach every investor

In this episode of Excess Returns, we welcome back Tobias Carlisle — author, host of Value After Hours, and manager of the Acquirers Funds. Toby shares his candid perspective on market valuations, value investing’s long struggle, and why he still believes mean reversion will eventually swing back in favor of small caps and value stocks. We also dive into AI, global markets, the Fed, housing, and where investors might find opportunity outside today’s expensive U.S. mega-caps.Market valuations: why today’s market may be more expensive than 1929, 2000, or 2020The pitfalls of relying on single-year P/E ratios and better long-term valuation measuresThe divergence between the “Magnificent 10” and the rest of the marketSmall caps, mid caps, and value: where Toby sees opportunity despite an earnings recessionAI as both a transformative force and a potential bubble-like capital cycleU.S. vs. international markets: structural advantages of American capitalism and where China is catching upThe Fed, interest rates, inflation, and how they really matter for value investorsHousing affordability and demographics as headwinds for the U.S. economyWhy Toby believes the “value vs. growth jaws” will eventually close00:00 – Are markets more expensive than 1929 and 2000?04:00 – Breaking down valuation charts: S&P, Russell, and mid/small caps10:00 – Why single-year P/Es mislead investors14:00 – Lessons from past bubbles: Nifty 50, dot-com era, and now19:00 – Large vs. small: the longest run for growth in history24:00 – AI’s impact: transformative technology or capital cycle trap?32:00 – Toby’s personal experience with AI (and why it disappoints him so far)33:00 – U.S. advantages vs. international markets and China’s rise41:00 – Are today’s U.S. valuations justified?45:00 – The Fed, interest rates, and speculation46:00 – Housing affordability and demographics as headwinds55:00 – Should value investors care about macro?59:00 – Closing question: Toby’s contrarian belief on value vs. growth

In this episode, we sit down with Leigh Drogen of StarKiller Capital, alongside guest co-host Kai Wu, for a deep dive into crypto investing strategies, momentum in digital assets, and market-neutral DeFi yield opportunities. Leigh shares his perspective on where we are in the crypto evolution, the parallels with past technology cycles, and how to survive and advance in one of the most volatile asset classes in the world. From time-series and cross-sectional momentum to the economics of yield farming, this is a comprehensive look at building systematic strategies in digital assets.Topics Covered:The parallels between Web1 → Web2 and today’s crypto transitionWhy the “fat protocol” thesis is giving way to the “fat app” eraThe role of Bitcoin vs. Ethereum in the next stage of crypto adoptionThe “survive and advance” investing philosophyTime-series momentum and cross-sectional momentum in cryptoHow VC behavior is changing momentum dynamicsSector-level momentum and narrowing lookback periodsStarKiller’s approach to asset selection and quality screensBuilding a market-neutral DeFi yield strategyBootstrapping network effects and early liquidity provisioningDiligence, counterparty risk, and managing protocol riskThe competitive landscape and where the biggest edges remain in cryptoTimestamps:00:00 – Crypto’s infrastructure milestones and evolution02:53 – The “fat protocol” vs. “fat app” thesis08:09 – Bitcoin’s role vs. Ethereum’s potential14:20 – “Survive and advance” and limiting drawdowns19:20 – Time-series vs. cross-sectional momentum23:00 – VC selling behavior and regime change in momentum31:47 – Sector-level momentum trends36:13 – Shorter lookback periods and market speed39:56 – StarKiller’s investable universe and filtering process48:00 – Designing a market-neutral DeFi yield strategy52:56 – Rewards farming and bootstrapping network effects58:00 – Market-making vaults and APR opportunities01:00:10 – Managing counterparty and protocol risk01:04:02 – Has crypto alpha become more competitive?01:07:41 – One lesson for the average investor

How Aswath Damodaran Manages His Own Portfolio | Show Us Your PortfolioIn this episode of our Show Us Your Portfolio series, we go inside the personal investing approach of Aswath Damodaran — the “Dean of Valuation.” Known for his expertise in corporate valuation, Aswath rarely discusses how he manages his own money. We cover his philosophy, asset allocation, position sizing rules, lifecycle diversification, and the lessons he’s learned from decades of investing his own wealth.What you’ll learn in this episode:The core mission that drives Aswath’s investing decisionsHow he thinks about risk, concentration, and position sizingWhy he avoids bonds and focuses on equity appreciationHis approach to strategic vs. tactical investingThe role of lifecycle diversification in portfolio constructionHow he decides when to buy and sell individual stocksWhy luck plays such a big role in investing resultsHis views on international exposure, dividends, gold, crypto, and alternative assetsPersonal spending habits and what he values most outside of investingTimestamps:00:00 – Investing’s end game: preserve and grow wealth03:25 – How life stage changes investment approach07:41 – Thoughts on the 60/40 portfolio08:47 – Why he holds no bonds10:12 – The power of compounding12:25 – Separating portfolio from income needs15:02 – Strategic vs. tactical investing18:00 – Managing concentration risk and trimming winners20:30 – Market concentration & the Mag 725:31 – How he buys and sells stocks32:46 – Hit rate and lessons from decades of investing37:26 – Lifecycle diversification41:00 – U.S. vs. international investing43:22 – Dividend investing45:35 – Gold, crypto, and alternative assets53:15 – What he drives and his ESG take54:39 – Spending for joy56:00 – Key investing advice for individuals57:37 – Life outside markets & creative thinking time

In this episode of Excess Returns, Matt Zeigler sits down with Nick Maggiulli — author of Just Keep Buying and his new book The Wealth Ladder. Nick shares his six-level framework for building wealth, why mobility between wealth levels is rarer than most people think, and how your financial strategy should evolve as your net worth grows. From grocery freedom to travel freedom, and from the risks of ego to the realities of taxes and investing at different stages, this conversation offers a practical guide to managing and growing wealth at any level.Topics Covered:The six levels of wealth and how to move between them“Grocery freedom,” “restaurant freedom,” and “travel freedom”Why moving down wealth levels is rare — and why moving up is harder than you thinkStrategies for Level 2: the role of education and income growthStrategies for Level 3: shifting focus to investing and compoundingThe importance of diversification, taxes, and risk management at higher levelsHow ego can derail wealth preservationBehavioral shifts needed when your portfolio outpaces your incomeThe impact of interest rates, taxes, and spending habits on mobilityPlanning for unknown future liabilitiesTimestamps:00:00 – Introduction to The Wealth Ladder framework01:40 – Grocery freedom, restaurant freedom, and travel freedom05:26 – Why moving down wealth levels is rare09:20 – Strategies for moving from Level 2 to Level 315:35 – Shifting from income growth to investing focus24:24 – Diversification and risk management in Level 433:20 – Ego as the most expensive thing some people own39:15 – Interest rates, taxes, and spending across levels46:00 – Planning for unknown future liabilities50:45 – Wealth mobility across generations

In this episode of Excess Returns, we’re joined by Kai Wu of Sparkline Capital to explore one of the most important and overlooked aspects of Warren Buffett’s investing evolution: his shift from tangible to intangible value. Based on Kai’s research paper “Buffett’s Intangible Moats,” we examine how Buffett's portfolio has evolved alongside the economy — and why the intangible drivers of brand equity, intellectual property, human capital, and network effects are central to understanding his success. Kai also shares how quantitative methods can be used to replicate Buffett’s approach and what this means for investors today.Topics Covered:The three eras of Buffett’s portfolio evolution: industrial, consumer, and information ageWhy Buffett’s shift away from deep value investing began earlier than most realizeHow Charlie Munger helped change Buffett’s approach — and why that matteredBuffett’s preference for intangible assets like brand, IP, and network effectsHow to quantify intangible value and its four key componentsSurprising stats: Buffett rarely buys below book value and holds high price-to-book stocksKai’s framework for building an intangible value score across stocksFactor attribution: quality and intangible value explain most of Buffett’s alphaThe impact of portfolio size, sector biases, and evolution of circle of competenceHow to replicate Buffett’s approach using a systematic, factor-based strategyWhy intangible value may be the "quality of tomorrow" and a forward-looking moatTimestamps:00:00 – Buffett’s evolution from value to intangible investor01:55 – Why Kai researched Buffett’s investing style now04:00 – The three eras of Buffett: Geico, Coca-Cola, Apple08:15 – How Buffett’s thinking changed under Munger’s influence10:00 – The rise of intangible moats and Buffett’s definition of economic goodwill13:10 – Four components of intangible value15:10 – Mapping Buffett’s holdings to intangible assets over time17:30 – Does Buffett get enough credit for evolving?20:30 – Only 8% of his holdings were bought below book value24:00 – Average price-to-book of Buffett's portfolio is 826:00 – Defining Kai’s intangible value factor27:50 – Buffett becomes a value investor again — just using a different metric30:00 – Circle of competence vs. expanding opportunity set33:00 – Today’s portfolio is 75% intangible by Kai’s framework34:45 – Decomposing Buffett’s returns into factors38:00 – Quality and intangible value explain 90% of Buffett’s alpha43:15 – Sector exposure vs. true value tilt49:00 – Intangible value as a leading indicator of quality52:00 – Building a Buffett-style quant portfolio using two key factors54:00 – Why Buffett’s future returns may be more muted