Practice? Podcast
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© Copyright 2025 David Fearon and Peter Vaill
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“Theory and practice” is a common phrase. We've seen a lot of writing on theory, but what about that other word? Peter calls it "the dark matter of the social sciences" - Practice. It applies to pencil-pushing, educating, heart surgery, sailing, golfing, and anything you can do with purpose. Peter and Dave take you into a world of thought that couples work and play, purpose and routine, life and legacy. In a world of white-water, On Practice is the raft.
312 Episodes
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Dave & Dad continue their discussion series on enacted social action as it applies to emotions. We extend American Pragmatism philosopher George H. Mead's approach to self as I and Me, social acts and symbolic interaction to sociologist Thomas Scheff's social bond theory. From the communicative functions of primary emotions evolve composite emotions of shame, guilt, and pride. These social emotions are fundamental to maintaining social relationships and constitute language, as demonstrated in a close analysis of conversation. Part 2 of the discussion will explore therapeutic applications and consciousness.
Dave shows us the reason he has joined a church choir, 70 years after his last time. It is Connecticut Music Educator and Burlington Congregational Church Music Director Emily Lombardo Castellon. Her enthusiasm for all manner of performing music is transmitted not only to her adult choir but also to the fifth- and sixth-grade members of her school's band. Emily represents the devoted practices of thousands of Music Teacher Educators across the Country. She and they transform lives—even Dave's.
Toward the end of this episode, you will hear revered Organization Development practitioner Fred Miller speak enthusiastically about an unprecedented wave of change, presenting fundamentally new prospects for organizational development. No rocking chair on the porch for Fred; he will be out there in the future helping business leaders transform their companies. He and host Dave Fearon speak of their mutual admiration of Peter B. Vaill, co-founder of this Practice? Podcast and co-author of Practice as a Way of Being.
Periodically, Dave checks in with leadership trend researcher and advisor Tom Casey to learn what practicing business leaders have on their minds. He and his Discussion Partners Collaborative colleagues ask the question, "What if all you believe to be accurate and possible is incorrect?" In these turbulent times, Tom discusses how leaders are holding their beliefs in suspension. They are advised to 'snap out of it'.
My friend and co-author Peter B. Vaill told us in his 1989 book, Managing as a Performing Art, to be ready to practice in permanent white water. David Silk kayaks daily in white waters raging in rivers around the globe. His practice has him racing among the top kayakers, exploring rivers around the world that have never been kayaked before, and teaching practitioners who are firmly committed to this challenging sport. In all ways, David is a whitewater professional.
Richmond, Maine sisters Olivia and Elsie Winokurzew drew upon lessons from their leadership experiences at Starbucks to create their own coffee and donut business, which was needed in their hometown. They named it Morning Moose Coffee. As committed entrepreneurs, they continue learning every day, even after successfully growing their business for over three years.
Dave leads me through a process to understand understanding itself. What happens in real-time moments of cognition. is comprised of 6 E's, enacted, embodied, embedded, extended, emotional and exacting processes that are also visible in conversation. This is the latest in a series of episodes probing the nature of Practice. The YouTube version includes presentation slides.
"High Tech. Human Touch" is a logo of Walker Group led by co-CEO Jessica Rich. Dave knows human intelligence thrives there, even as they know and apply AI, because Walker Group is a registered Benefit Corporation and the first Perpetual Purpose Trust-Owned Company in Connecticut. They promise their practitioners a stable foundation for a long career. Jessica has been with Walker for over 22 years and has no plan or reason to lead elsewhere.
Dave, Jr., and I had another conversation to discuss more dimensions of how information and practice in social behavior is not abstract but rooted in the real dynamics of physics, even at the quantum level. Explored this time are how enacted living systems are expressed by Constructor Theory, Assembly Theory, and Indivisible Stochastic Processes
Dave meets a contemporary who thinks alike about the nature of leading as practice. John Varney founded the Centre for Management Creativity and High Trenhouse and the author of Leadership as Meaning. Enjoy his wisdom and lovely English accent.
Dave becomes acquainted with Dr. Kim Byas, who, among his several current endeavors, including Vice President of Community Engagement and Impact at The Center for Health Affairs, is a member of the Conscious Leadership Guild. In the course of this conversation, Kim introduces the concept of the origin story. Each of us has one, yet to inform and grow our practices, we can become more aware of this unique personal resource. Journaling is one way of doing so.
Dave introduces Kyndra Frazier, a doctoral student studying Organization Development and Change at Bowling Green University. She is well into her career as a pastor, social worker, and consultant and aims to become a chief spiritual officer in a progressive company.
Dave discovered that his versatile friend from 'way back' practices genealogy as an avocation. Barbara MacDonald Saabye, a fellow graduate of the Portland, Maine Deering High School Class of 1961, tells how searching for her grandfather's records captivated her interest in researching other family lineages. Forty years later, she uses Family Search.com to find the ancestry of friends and fellow genealogists.
Dave reconnects with his former student, Pam Potanka, to learn she is joining her former colleague, John Kelly, to blend their advanced managerial leadership practices to create a custom recruitment and development firm Arise Results Business Services.
Dave reconnects with Discussion Partner Collaborative Managing Principal Tom Casey to learn what his research tells senior leaders they are facing ahead in our time's raging Practice white waters. Vicarious trauma and Predicate are the two factors they have under discussion for leader development.
Dave adds to our deep dive for the closest look so far at the socially-enacted nature of Practice, the ideas of philosopher and cognitive scientist John Vernaecke.; Relevance Realization in particular.
Dave Jr. and his dad resume their exploration of social enaction and Practice by delving into Ralph Stacey's theories on complex responsive processes. Reading Stacey's books caused Dave to make a major revision to his doctoral dissertation, Social Enactoin: How TalkinInteraction Constitutes Social Organization.
I am at an entirely different point in my life as a recent widower. Talk about change! Accordingly, I am shifting my attention to practitioners who make our daily lives livable, many of whom are paid by the hour. Yet, they shine and see their role and work as a personal practice. I will both podcast conversations with them and create short videos telling their stories. Yes, change is afoot. I'll still post conversations with organization and leadership developers, but I will feature the people whose work I also admire.
I move past 12 and 13 to reprise this Episode 14 as the last one before I resume new podcasting. Peter gives us the "why" of our and your attention to Practice. It organizes what we think about our Practice, and Practice organizes us! Asked, "Who are you?', we tend to answer with what we do (Practice). Asked, "What do you love doing?" we may respond differently than what we are paid to do. That's Practice rising from our souls.
Change makes the leader, and leading makes the change. Peter and Dave, co-authors of On Practice as a Way of Being, talk about leading as a dynamic practice available to anyone, at any moment, to make change happen
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