Real Talk With Susan & Kristina

Welcome to this week's episode of Real Talk! In this installment, hosts Susan and Kristina delve into the high-stakes world of college admissions alongside guest Davida Amkraut. As the trio navigates the aftermath of a particularly competitive admissions season, they offer invaluable insights, tips, and tricks to help listeners make informed decisions. With the college acceptance landscape resembling a bloodbath this year, many students have found themselves admitted to schools that weren't necessarily their first choice. Parents, this episode is essential listening as the team breaks down what you need to know before sending your child off to college. And for upcoming seniors, they provide crucial advice on staying ahead of the curve and crafting a strategic plan for the college application process. Tune in for a candid discussion packed with insider knowledge and practical guidance!   About Davida Amkraut: Davida is an Independent College Consultant who serves as the saving grace for students and families in crisis who are navigating the complex college application process. Whether a student finds themselves in trouble and is applying to college for the first time, or is transitioning from one university to another due to a Title IX or other university-related misconduct claim, Davida helps young adults shape their stories so that they gain acceptance into college.   TRANSCRIPT: Susan Stone: Welcome back to Real Talk with Susan Stone and Kristina Supler. We are full time moms and attorneys bringing our student defense legal practice to life with real candid conversations.   Susan Stone: Last week was accepted students weekend for Tori. Can you believe it?    Kristina Supler: what a big, big like- How do you feel now that you know where she's going?   Susan Stone: Oh my gosh. First of all, for the listeners out there. My youngest just accepted college. She will be going to Ringling College in Sarasota, Florida, which is an art school.   Kristina Supler: Fabulous.    Susan Stone: To have it done for the final time was crazy. And our guest today, I also know has three kids, but I think all of them are out of college. Welcome back to Davida Amkraut .    Davida Amkraut: Thank you. Thank you. I actually have one still in college. He's just finishing his sophomore year, so.    Kristina Supler: Well, we're glad you're able to join us again.Our listeners probably remember you from some of your prior recordings with us and welcome back.    Davida Amkraut: It's good to see you guys. Yeah.    Susan Stone: Where is your youngest? Northeastern    Davida Amkraut: am I that's my middle. He's graduating in May from Northeastern. He's graduating in two weeks, and my youngest is at George Washington University.    Susan Stone: And how was his experience there?    Davida Amkraut: Loves loves loves loves it.He's in the pre physical therapy program there. So he's having  wow that's back. That's back to your that's your basic simpler. Yeah. Therapy. Yeah.   Susan Stone: may be great for everyone out here. Christina's family's in    Kristina Supler: PT Bizz    Susan Stone: So, DeVita, you've got a lot of career changes lately. Why don't you catch our listeners up with what you're doing?    Davida Amkraut: Yeah, so I'm still doing.I still am running my own private practice where I assist. This past year, I had about 55 kids from all across the country, actually, who I worked with, on college admissions. But I also joined a high school team, in the Bronx, where I'm working at a Jewish high school in the Bronx, and I am on their college counseling team.   So it's really fascinating for me to see both sides of the table. Right. So I'm working with kids from my computer, but then I'm also working with kids in person, and I've had a lot of access to admission officers, which has been amazing. I've been on advocacy calls for my students. For the listeners who don't know what that means is, prior to decisions being released, if schools allow it, we we have a call with the admission officer for our our rep for our region, and we're sort of able to pitch our case, you know, and, you know, tell them a little bit,    Kristina Supler: So  you can literally lobby for a particular student to have a spot at assembly Davida Amkraut: Only at certain schools. A lot of schools have done away with these advocacy calls, calls because it prevents and prevents inequity, because not every counselor has the time to make 400 phone calls for their students. But because we're at a smaller school, our caseload is a little bit smaller. So we do have the ears and eyes of some counselors who are still very happy to talk to us.   So, for example, Cooper Union, which is an engineering and architecture school in Manhattan. I don't know if you    Susan Stone: I looked at Cooper Union with Tory.    Davida Amkraut: Yeah. So I actually was able to talk to Cooper about my student, who they were considering for a regular decision, and give them an update about everything that he's been doing since he last applied in person. And then they were able to ask me questions, and it was like a 15 minute phone call. but it's a fascinating thing, right? To be able to have that access. Some schools will just call and give you the numbers of who is going to get in and who's not going to get in by names, actually. But you can't really advocate at that point because it's already done deal    Susan Stone: done deal.    Davida Amkraut: But they do give the courtesy to the admission, you know, the college counselors to let them know what our decisions are going to be so that we can be there for the students on the receiving end.    Susan Stone: Could you have done that for your private clients?   Davida Amkraut: No no no no no. They will never speak to independent office counselors at all. No.    Susan Stone: So what can the independent college counselor do that's different from the in-house school college counselor?    Davida Amkraut: So I always say the in-house school college counselor is not only well, it depends on if it's a college counselor or if it's a high school counselor. So you'll see that that verbiage has changed, because if it's a high school counselor, that counselor and I know in Beachwood in Shaker, they are high school counselors as well as college counselors.So not only are they dealing with a college process, they're also dealing with a social, emotional piece for every single student in that high school. So they have a very, very big, big caseload. You know, if they're dealing with social, emotional and college, college sort of doesn't always take, you know, the front seat to that. So an independent counselor can help identify schools.   They can help keep the kids on deadlines. They can do read throughs of essays. They could help position them a little bit better and look at their activities and say, you know, you're applying to an engineering program. You have nothing engineering on your application. We need to get you involved with something. A counselor at a large public school probably doesn't have the bandwidth to do that, right.   They're just looking at doing a cursory review. They're going on scatter grams, which is the, you know, the Naviance score to see where they have sent other kids in their school and making a guess about where the kids should apply without really having that in-depth consultation. If that makes sense    Susan Stone: When you have a kid, let's say you have five kids at your high school all looking at George Washington. Can you advocate for all five or do you have to?    Davida Amkraut: You probably wouldn't. We probably wouldn't advocate for all five. We would choose the one that we think would probably be the most successful, or the one that they would really want. looking at the profile and looking at and also knowing that that might not be that student's first choice.Right. We have that Intel. So we would never advocate for a school if it's an early action or if it's a regular decision for a school that we know that the kid would never go to. Does that make sense? We know what    Susan Stone: they're right, kid. But let's say you have three kids. I'm going to say a popular school this year.They want Michigan and they're dying to get into Michigan. Do you pick the best horse?    Davida Amkraut: Well, Michigan doesn't let advocacy calls. Are you surprised by that? They, they have a    Kristina Supler: no, because they don't need to. I mean, that they get the best of best.    Davida Amkraut: They had 75,000 applications this year for a class that's housed. That was their numbers for this year.That was 70,000 early action. Right. So who knows how many additional people who had in their regular season. Right. So a lot of kids will not apply during that early action because they want to use that time to get their grades up, for instance. Right? So then they'll hold back their application until the January 1st to really show their, you know, the upward trajectory. So that's only 70,000 early action applications for our class of 7,000. Right.  Kristina Supler: So what are your takeaways from this past, you know, season? I mean what did you see, what trends and what lessons, you know, were learned for students who are, you know, on the brink for next year?    Davida Amkraut: Yeah. Well, I would say actually, funny you should ask that.But just yesterday we had two bombshells just dropped on our laps on April 11th that two of the big schools are now going to require testing. Harvard and Cal Tech announced April 11th that they're gonna require testing, which is very, very it's it's so hurtful to so many counselors who are listening that to    Kristina Supler: Other schools announced that to  in the Ivys   Davida Amkraut: They did it before the march SATs    Kristina Supler: earlier. So that's the issue was the timing.    Davida Amkraut: The timing is terrible because after reading why   Susan Stone: that's a bomb debate is are they punishin

Students sometimes enjoy cuddling, but innocent acts can sometimes lead to serious Title IX cases. These situations are more common than you might expect. Join Susan and Kristina in this episode of Real Talk as they discuss common pitfalls, focusing on important aspects like communication, conversation, and consent. Tune in for essential insights, and be sure to share this information with your students.   LINKS MENTIONED IN THE SHOW: https://studentdefense.kjk.com/   TRANSCRIPT: Susan Stone: Welcome back to Real Talk with Susan Stone and Kristina Supler. We are full time moms and attorneys bringing our student defense legal practice to life with real candid conversations.   Susan Stone: Nice to see you on this dreary, rainy day.    Kristina Supler: Indeed, it is.    Susan Stone: It is. Well, we're going to talk about something that's actually good to do on a rainy day.    Kristina Supler: Ooh, tell me more. What could that be?    Susan Stone: Cuddling.    Kristina Supler: Who doesn't love cuddling?    Susan Stone: My gosh. You know what? I'm mourning the fact that my youngest is about to go to college. And we talked about this on prior podcasts, but do you remember we used to have younger kids. But back in the day.    Kristina Supler: My kids love to CUDDLE Yeah,    Susan Stone: There's nothing like that. Cuddling up a little kid, especially on a rainy morning.   Susan Stone: Couldn't agree more.   Susan Stone: I love it.    Kristina Supler: Well, why are you talking about cuddling today, Susan? Do I go with this?   Susan Stone: Well, we're going to get there because, as you know, nobody sees us and things until something goes wrong. And what is that saying? Everything's fine till somebody gets poked in the eye. Do you remember that thing?    Kristina Supler: Yes.    Susan Stone: Well, we're going to talk about cuddling going wrong. But first, let's just talk about why do we cuddle? I mean, I was doing a little research on cuddling and did you know that cuddling produces oxytocin and basically makes you feel good and safe?   Kristina Supler: Well, that's interesting because I suppose and you know, you're the special ed wiz, if you will, is it could one argue that cuddling is kind of like a form of O.T. in a way, occupational therapy or stimulating you in some way?    Susan Stone: Well, we know it improves sleep. There are some studies out there that says it actually boosts the immune system and it, believe it or not, lowers blood pressure. That's crazy, isn't it?    Kristina Supler: Now that I didn't see that one coming, I'm just thinking about like some of our little kids and people with sensitivities to touch and touch can be a good thing. And also maybe something that can be triggering.    Susan Stone: Yeah, exactly. Well, I would say that in early childhood, cuddling definitely leads to attachment parenting. You really form bonds.   Kristina Supler: Well, that like when you first have your baby and they want to put the baby on your chest for the. What does that kangaroo care? What was it called?   Susan Stone:  I think it's kangaroo care. It's been a minute   Kristina Supler: and they have had a baby.    Susan Stone: Yeah, but I think your point is well taken that some children actually are averse to touch, you know, like that feeling. But most people do. And a little simple hug or cuddle is wonderful for parents. And I'm a big fan of parents being physically affectionate with children. But.   Kristina Supler: but there's always a but    Susan Stone: but we're not here to talk about parents snuggling their babies,    Kristina Supler: I think as part of our podcast. It's funny, every episode there's sort of a theme of, in reality, things that are nice. Most of the time innocent sure and then put them on a college campus and the title nine world. And of course, there's always room for things to go wrong. So are we talking about cuddling in the context of Title Nine today?    Susan Stone: We are. Because one person's innocent, platonic, asexual cuddling can be another person's prelude to a hookup.   Kristina Supler: Indeed, indeed. And that actually makes me think we've had over the years we've had quite a few cases that are sort of rooted in, I don't know, cuddling going wrong, if you will, though I think it probably depends on who you ask. Right?   Susan Stone: Well, I just learned that there is a definitional difference between cuddling and snuggling.    Kristina Supler: Now this is totally new to me.Tell me more. I'm very interested.    Susan Stone: Okay. I read by Rabbi Google. You know, the go to source of all things.    Kristina Supler: When you're done, I'm going to tell you something that I just came across on Rabbi Google.    Susan Stone: Okay, good. So cuddling his arms around someone and snuggling is rubbing up and wiggling against a person.    Kristina Supler: Okay, that makes sense.   Susan Stone: It does?   Kristina Supler: Yeah.    Susan Stone: How do you think it makes sense? Supler    Kristina Supler: Because snuggling. It makes me think about, like, getting cozy and, like, under a blanket. And you're sort of, I don't know, inching up and just, like, being warm. And as I'm saying this, I'm realizing I don't even I don't know, it just makes sense to me that one's different.   Susan Stone: Well, so maybe we're not here really to talk about cuddling. Maybe we're here to talk about snuggling when that goes wrong,    Kristina Supler: Perhaps. But you reminded me, actually, not too long ago, I saw this headline about how in Manhattan, because of course, you can find anything in Manhattan, there are actually    Susan Stone: I love the Big Apple    Kristina Supler: professional cuddling services where people charge $150 an hour to cuddle in a platonic way because people are seeking out like that touch therapy thing.   Which made me think of the OT question I asked you earlier. How about that though? Truly, anything you want can be found in New York.    Susan Stone: It can be. But let's go back. And that's interesting. It may be kind of creepy. I don't know how I feel about it, but let's go back to college, because in college there are people who like to have what they call cuddle buddies.   Kristina Supler: Sure. And I think that from the perspective of Title nine, how can things go wrong? I mean, it's really in essence, any sort of touching or physical contact, if it's unwelcome, could perhaps give rise to a claim for sexual harassment.   Susan Stone: So let's set the stage for our listeners. It's late. You've already gone out. The bars have closed.So it's what, 2 a.m.    Kristina Supler: sure. I guess it depends what state you're in, but I think two AMs a reasonable time.    Susan Stone: Okay. And you know, nothing good happens at 2 a.m..    Kristina Supler: Nothing.    Susan Stone: Nothing. So it's 2 a.m. and you decide to watch a little Netflix and chill for your evening out. Maybe you've had a beer or two or ten and you decide to cuddle and accidentally you might even fall asleep and or not. And the cuddling to one person, they're tired. They want to go to sleep, but to the other person they get aroused, duu duu dun   Kristina Supler: Sure. I mean, I think one could argue that that is a natural consequence of cuddling    Susan Stone: and a hand might wander.    Kristina Supler: It's possible,    Susan Stone: and a hand might wander without consent.    Kristina Supler: Indeed.    Susan Stone: And there's your title nine.    Kristina Supler: Yeah. I mean, the whole at the heart of the Title nine analysis was the issue of unwelcomeness. And then also, you know, a conversation. It makes me think Conversations we often have with our students of any age is sort of impact versus intent, you know? But I didn't mean for anything, you know, to be upsetting or offensive, but it was received that way by someone else. And so what do you do with that? And that's really, in essence, what all of our Title nine cases are about, cause I don't think anyone ever says, I intentionally did X, Y, Z to hurt someone. It's always I didn't mean to or something was misunderstood or misconstrued. And then you have the, you know, the consequences of whatever the circumstance was. And that's often what we're navigating through is sort of the the gray.    Susan Stone: Well, because the definition of content send can be words or actions. And so what is an action? I thought we were cuddling. I thought we were getting closer. I thought you also were romantically interested in me. And so I thought it was a natural move on my part to move my hand. And the other person's thinking, wait, you didn't even talk to me? But that's not the definition of consent. It's words or actions. And I think that's where the confusion comes from.    Kristina Supler: Well, and I'm going to say this, that, you know, sort of a prevailing viewpoint might be that, well, come on, please. Everyone knows that cuddling is just sort of a gateway to a hookup. How would you respond to that?    Susan Stone: I don't even think that's true because as we started our whole podcast, parents cuddle children, but as we have worked our way through this issue, I think the confusion comes from the difference between cuddling and snuggling. And I think that college students don't spend enough time as they're creating these cuddle buddies to determine, is it truly platonic?   How do you know that you might feel platonic, and the other person might actually have feelings, and the cuddling or snuggling enhances those feelings.    Kristina Supler: So, I hear you. But then I guess let me ask you this. It sorts of circles back to what I very in artfully tried to define before the difference between cuddling and snuggling. If you're snuggling.How would you define the two? Because if you're saying one is more, it sounds like you're saying one is okay and one can be problematic. I mean, you try to define the difference.    Susan Stone: Well, I like the definition I gave you. And f

In this week's episode of 'Real Talk,' Susan and Kristina uncover the secret to their successful partnership. Join them for a hilarious exploration of their working relationship, their practice,and the valuable lessons learned during their nearly decade-long collaboration. So grab a cup of coffee and join them for a candid conversation about what makes their professional bond so special.   LINKS MENTIONED IN THE SHOW: https://studentdefense.kjk.com/  https://www.amazon.com/Yes-Your-Kid-Parents-Todays/dp/1637743807  https://www.instagram.com/stonesupler/   TRANSCRIPT: Susan Stone: Welcome back to Real Talk with Susan Stone and Kristina Supler. We are full time moms and attorneys bringing our student defense legal practice to life with real candid conversations.   Kristina Supler: Susan ever since the Super Bowl.   Susan Stone: Oh no, oh no. Don't say it.   Kristina Supler: I have a secret guilty pleasure. I confess to you and our listeners out there like,   Susan Stone: Oh my God here, it's coming.   Kristina Supler: But I am totally, completely obsessed with the dunking Dunkin Donuts commercials, the Ben Affleck Matt Damon commercials. Did you see those during the Super Bowl?   Susan Stone: Okay. Not only did I see them, but I saw us in Ben and Matt.   Kristina Supler: That's what I thought.   Susan Stone: I know.   Kristina Supler: What is about those two. I was so drawn to it. I can't stop watching when they're there walking in. We got touchdown, Tommy. On the key.   Susan Stone: You love that one.   Kristina Supler: I love that one.   Susan Stone: Touchdown Tommy on the keys. Okay, Because here's what it is. They've been together a long time working and kind of separating.Yeah. We're not childhood friends, but.    Kristina Supler: No, we're not.   Susan Stone:  But it's been.   Kristina Supler:  It's been a minute.   Susan Stone: It's been a second. Collaborating,   Kristina Supler: Creativity   Susan Stone: Creativity. And, you know, they drive each other crazy, which we do sometimes.   Kristina Supler: We do. We do. But there's humor there. I can't even tell you how much it made me laugh when Matt Damon looks at Ben Affleck and he's like, how do you like them donuts?   Susan Stone: Oh my God.   Kristina Supler: I’m so sorry.   Susan Stone: Okay. The line I loved is sometimes it's really hard to be your friend or remember, I would do anything for you. This is anything. And I know those moments because in our working relationship, in our friendship, we ask an absolute a lot from each other.   Kristina Supler: Oh yeah. It's it's really it's been it's been quite a journey we've been on for the past. I don't even know how long it's been.   Susan Stone: for the listeners out there. And those of you who are in Greek organizations, I hard rushed Sue Blur to be my law partner. I remember saying, Join me in this practice. And you're like, Well, I still want my criminal defense and you still do.   Kristina Supler: I still do. You do. I do.   Susan Stone: But mostly we represent students out there and we do handle a lot of criminal defense and we deal do with that. We still deal with sex issues   Kristina Supler: all day, every day.   Susan Stone:  It was a hard sell getting you in, but we made it and it's been actually almost ten years.   Kristina Supler: So why are we talking about this today? Why what is the point of this episode of this topic? Are our listeners are like what we're gone from done kings and Matt Damon and Ben Affleck to to the two of you are   Susan Stone: Dunking’s or dukin?   Kristina Supler:  it's done Kings Kings because they're kings I swear folks she’s  really smart   Susan Stone: I just feel like what Dunkin Donuts like   Kristina Supler:  Yeah it is but in the commercial they were getting creative. Okay okay,.   Susan Stone: Guys that's what life is like in the office and why I do   Kristina Supler: And that by the way I knew when I met her I said, she's the one for me.   Susan Stone: Absolutely. Guys, please stop. I'm menopausal I’ll pee in my pants. Okay, so how. Here's the thing, guys.   Kristina Supler: For real.   Susan Stone: For real.   Kristina Supler: In all seriousness,   Susan Stone: In all seriousness, we do handle your serious legal issues, but it's hard work and you really have to grind a lot of hours and there's got to be a lot of trust in the person you work with. And there's got a lot there's got to be a lot of synergy. And I think that we're doing this episode to show that we really are more than law partners, that we will be like being together.   Kristina Supler: Absolutely. This is sort of a behind the scenes episode, if you will. And I mean, I think that aside from, you know, our spouses and significant others and friends and family member, people who know us really closely, some people are surprised to hear and learn of how much time we spend together. And we always say, well, it's good thing we really like each other because our work is grueling. There's so many hours and traveling and dealing with tough topics. It's important that we have a really good relationship with each other to get through it all.   Susan Stone: Yeah, we don't get enough time being buds. We try, I agree with, but we really don't because at the end of the day we want to go home and be with our friends and our family and get a little break from each other.But it has almost been ten years.   Kristina Supler:  I know that's crazy to think about. So let's go back in the time machine and you tell our listeners, take it back a little. Austin Powers Yeah, How? Let's talk about how we met. Like what was our first encounter?   Susan Stone: We met, Yeah, Yeah. So it's funny, I was a working at my old law firm and Cristina's boss at her firm actually merged into us for a hot sec.   Kristina Supler: That's right.   Susan Stone: Hot, sec    Kristina Supler: hot sec. I just had my second child.   Susan Stone:  I can't believe that   Kristina Supler: lot of professional transition going on, but, you know,   Susan Stone: and we're talking high school for your oldest, and that little one is about to become his own young king in the theater.   Kristina Supler: Yes. He is a man of the art. Yeah, But yeah, I mean, I remember it was like 2013 ish, maybe even further back than that, b   Susan Stone: But a little bit closer to when the Obama regulations came out in 2011.That’s scary guys.   Kristina Supler: I know. And I remember I'm plugging away doing my thing. Susan's in her world of what At that point, general litigation in special education.   Susan Stone: Well, and I was in the beginning of starting my own practice, and I knew I didn't want to do it alone. I knew I needed a buddy with me because it's just let's face it, it's more fun. Life is more fun with a friend. And we had a project, a case came in that required both skill sets.   Kristina Supler: I remember I got a call for a student at a very reputable university in the area, very infamous school in terms of Title nine. And I got the call saying, Hey, do you do title 9 work? My son's got this issue.He's been accused of sexual assault. And at the time I vaguely knew what Title nine was, but I knew that I knew sex, sexual assault. Right. And so, like,   Susan Stone: just came out so awful. It's like you just keep it all, you   Kristina Supler: I  know, the how you try to avoid the the puns. They're just right there and you fall into   Susan Stone: Keep it clean. Keep it clean This is a family show.   Kristina Supler: But I remember talking to you and saying, Susan, I have this case. I feel like you would be, you know, good person to partner with on it. And you're like, Yeah, I've done some of those as well and the rest is history.   Susan Stone: And you know what's interesting to talk about, when we get tense at those moments of tension, it's usually fear.   Kristina Supler: I agree.   Susan Stone: When we have fear   Kristina Supler:  uncertainty, fear   Susan Stone: or exhaustion.   Kristina Supler: That too,   Susan Stone: I do have to share a story with what a good law partner Kristina supler is. And what a good friend. Supler is. my gosh. Two weeks ago I got hit with the virus. It was one of the nastiest viruses in my life. I will say for me, it was worse than COVID. I was.   Kristina Supler: You were so sick. I don't. I don't know the last time I've seen you that ill. I mean you were writhing in pain. You were literally lying on the floor of your office. Susan Stone: yeah. Guys, I was in a dress with heels,   Kristina Supler: a Prada dress, I might add.   Susan Stone: It was a beautiful vintage Prada, and I had a very nice bike.Black heel, little Lu bu little red showing on the bottom. Loved it. And I was in so much pain and I was sweating. And we actually had a very important 3:00 meeting and I had to be there. I laid on my floor because I was not going to miss that meeting. No holding my stomach got up, turn my camera on and would turn my camera off to puke.It was so ugly. And then you drove me home and I wore to Mass. And then you got sick. So that's just like crazy,   Kristina Supler: I’m still on antibiotic .    Susan Stone: Just the gift that keeps on giving.   Kristina Supler: That's right.   Susan Stone: So, what we get out of it is really important. I think the feeling of you always have my back and I always have your back. And   Kristina Supler:  Absolutely. Because, I mean, so much of our work is rooted in absolute uncertainty and there's very little like black and white, you know, clear answers for our cases. And so you're sort of working in a lot of gray and working off of instinct, and sometimes you're not sure what to do. And clients are upset. Everyone's upset. It's tough emotionally. And it's just it's so rewarding to have someone there by your side go through it with you.   Susan Stone: You do take it for granted. You forget, my gosh, that's your reality

In this week's episode of 'Real Talk,' Susan and Kristina dive deep into the topic of bullying. Discovering that your child is either being bullied or is the one doing the bullying can be incredibly challenging for parents. However, it's crucial to be informed. Join us in this episode to learn about the necessary steps you should take, the responsibilities schools have, and how you, as a parent, can ensure your child is protected. Tune in for valuable insights and practical advice. LINKS MENTIONED IN THE SHOW: https://studentdefense.kjk.com/ https://www.instagram.com/stonesupler/  TRANSCRIPT: Susan Stone:  Welcome back to Real Talk with Susan Stone and Kristina Supler. We are full time moms and attorneys bringing our student defense legal practice to life with real candid conversations.   Susan Stone: Well, good morning.    Kristina Supler: Good morning, my friend.    Susan Stone: Gosh, I don't know about you, but I'm exhausted. I’m just so tired. Every bone in my body feels tired.    Kristina Supler: It's funny you say that, because this morning, for the first time in an unknown eternity, my alarm went off to go to the gym, and I chose not to get up. I went back to bed and then another hour and a half to sleep.   Susan Stone: I've had a lot of those mornings and I'm wondering what's contributing to the exhaustion. Any ideas on your part? I just think it's we're really busy.    Kristina Supler: We've had a busy January. We've had a lot of hearings. We have a lot of tough cases that I think we both really care about. And, you know, our work is it's not work that you can do if you don't care. You know, I mean, what do you think?    Susan Stone: Yeah, You know, I try very hard and I know you do to to separate work from home because our family does. Yeah, but I take it home. I carry it in my heart. I carry every client in my heart. And it's hard.    Kristina Supler: It's hard to turn off your brain at night and stop thinking about these really significant issues that, you know, we've spent hours all day sorting through. But then you go home and, you know, my children are younger, obviously, as you know, I'm in mom mode cooking dinner and helping with homework. And last night we were making cookies for a school presentation on Friday, and it was kind of like, my gosh, the last thing I want to do, but you have to do it.   Susan Stone: You've got to do it. And I know that I worked last night after I made dinner and I just was losing patience for the client and it was more just fatigue on my part.   Kristina Supler: Yeah.    Susan Stone: So I need to recharge and so do you. What do you do to recharge?    Kristina Supler: that's a good question, because it can be a couple of different things. For me, sometimes it's just having a weekend that's unscheduled, you know, not having a million activities, but then also sleep and exercise and just sort of having some time for myself and not feeling like I'm running around all weekend, you know, taking care of other people. But I mean, what about you?    Susan Stone: Yeah, I don't know. I, I don't know. I keep thinking about it. It's a moving needle. But one of the things I do know is that we do let work move into our home space, and it keeps me up in the middle of the night. So I got to get better at that. And if any of you listeners are out there and have some ideas and yes, I already do practice yoga and healthy.   Kristina Supler:  mindfulness,    Susan Stone: I've got that mindfulness.But you know what's been coming in a lot and I just thought we talk about it. We're getting a lot of calls about bullying again.   Kristina Supler:  We are. And we get those cases and those calls, I should say, all the time. I mean, every year. But I do feel like in January there's always a bit of an uptick in bullying, say, issues. And it's really for students of all ages, wouldn't you agree?    Susan Stone: Yeah. I wonder if you think it has anything to do with the crappy weather.   Kristina Supler: I hadn't thought of that. maybe we're in Cleveland and it was like literally zero a couple of weeks ago, and no one's outside moving around. Everyone's cooped up in homes. That could be a thought. Susan Stone: Yeah, it could be. But so the questions that come in is, if your child's accused of being the bully, how can you help defend my child? If your kid is bullied, what can I do? How do I stop it? Do have a lawsuit? There's a lot of issues related that you would call an attorney for if your child's involved in bullying.   Kristina Supler: Yeah, I mean, and I think that so often in these initial meetings when we're meeting with parents and children alike, you know, one of the first questions we get is, should I sent my kid to school tomorrow? Should I put my kid out of the school? And it's like, okay, we got to deal with this one step at a time. We got a lot to unpack here, but you know, there's not a one size fits all answer. I would say in any of the cases.   Susan Stone:  I have a personal question. Were you ever bullied?   Kristina Supler:  Wow.    Susan Stone: did I touch a personal nerve    Kristina Supler: or was I a bully    Susan Stone: or were you the bully? Yeah,    Kristina Supler: I sincere bully believe I was not a bully.   Susan Stone: Everybody thinks there not the bully    Kristina Supler: will be someone out there who feels who feels otherwise. Who, you know, I ran with in fifth grade, but I. I don't think I was. But, you know,    Susan Stone: We’ll find out    Kristina Supler: The universe  has a way of telling us these things, right?    Susan Stone: wow. We're going to get an email from someone to you sure hear about you bullied me in the fifth grade.   Kristina Supler: I this does remind me. I had it's funny, I was saying fifth grade. I had a personal variance that that that deeply scarred me and is still with me to this day. I still carry it with me    Susan Stone: is it juicy.    Kristina Supler: Well, I mean, at the time it was. Yes, yes, yes, yes.    Susan Stone: Do share come on I want to know   Kristina Supler: .I had a group of friends.   Susan Stone: Were they friends or quote friends?    Kristina Supler: Well, I mean, friends in the way that anyone's friends during adolescence that, you know, one day, one day you're the coolest kid in school and then the next day no one will talk to you for no reason, and you're not really sure why. But then 48 hours later, you're back on top. So I had a group of girlfriends who I did view as my friends. I thought we were true friends. Now, in hindsight, you know, what was the quality of the relationship? That's something I would like to have    Susan Stone: Are you still friends with them now.   Kristina Supler: No,   Susan Stone:  okay, then they weren't friends.  Kristina Supler: Yeah, no, no contact. Having contact since, I don't know, 30 years ago. But there there was a boy I had a crush on and my friends convinced the boy to ask me out.   Susan Stone: Now, what The first of all was the boy's name. Come on, Dish.    Kristina Supler: The boy's name was Brad.   Susan Stone: Okay, So did Brad actually in fifth grade ask you out to pizza or what did that even mean? At that age    Kristina Supler: That ended well, that's it. Yeah. What? What did it mean? I'm still asking myself that, but I assure you, it was very significant at the time. We were. We were boyfriend girlfriend. I don't know. Like, we didn't we didn't go anywhere. We didn't meet in public. We this was obviously pre cell phones and social media.    So I supposed dating someone was like an eight minute phone call at 7 p.m. before your parents needed the phone because this was also before you know, people have like multiple lines in their house. And I was like, listen, my house. We were all sharing one phone.    Susan Stone: And so multiple lines in the stone house, I assure you no    Kristina Supler: it it's hot, hot competition in my house to get on the phone in the evening. So at any rate, I liked this boy Brad. And one day out of nowhere, he realized that he, too, like me, wanted me to be his girlfriend.   Susan Stone: So this is not a sad story. This is awesome.    Kristina Supler: but wait, there's more. So I am just over the moon thinking, you know, I'm like, Wow, this is.    Susan Stone: It's Brad. Brad.    Kristina Supler: Well, you'll always have or not. Fast forward, I don't know if it was two days later, three days later, I don't know a certain period of time passed and I'm in gym class and I find out that Brad Shortbread asked me out, but it was really like on a dare or like it was in concerted effort with these like, plans with my friends.   And really it was just to humiliate me. And of course, I found all of this out. And I mean, girl, I was crying hysterically. I ran out of gym class. I was crushed because the humiliation and the worst part about it wasn't just okay, it was joke. Brad doesn't like me. Like, okay, you know, the betrayal. The betrayal that I everyone else had this joke.   I was on the outside. Everyone else knew what was going on. They were talking about me and I wasn't, you know, it was just. Yeah, the betrayal, the devastation, the pain.   Susan Stone: Did you go to school the next day?    Kristina Supler: Girl? Are you kidding me? My parents were like, you know, get over it go back to school. You’re fine   Susan Stone: That was my parents. For sure    Kristina Supler: There is no cadwelding you know, let's talk about this. How does that make you feel that? No, no, none of that.    Susan Stone: Yeah, I didn't have that either.   Kristina Supler:  Catholic grade school. So, you know, back in the day, Catholic grade school. I mean, I will say that the teachers were I don't know, they seemed to handle it like recognize how cruel it was. But, you know, the next day, like no one was checking in with me. There were no school psychologists making sure things were fine. I mean, they just they didn't do that.    Susan Stone: This might explain a

In this week's episode of 'Real Talk,' Susan and Kristina take on the daunting task of deciphering the ever-changing slang of today's kids. From navigating linguistic rollercoasters to tackling new words and phrases that pop up daily, they show that staying in the know is not just essential but also a fun challenge. Join them for some laughs and linguistic acrobatics as they take on today’s latest trends. TRANSCRIPT: Susan Stone: Welcome back to Real Talk with Susan Stone and Kristina Supler. We are full-time moms and attorneys bringing our student defense legal practice to life with real candid conversations. Have a fun podcast today, Supler.   Kristina Supler: What are we talking about?   Susan Stone: We are going to talk about decoding teen slang and trends.   Kristina Supler: Oooo, fun, I like it.   Susan Stone: Yeah. Before we launch into our podcast today, can I just say it is so flipping cold out.   Kristina Supler: Oh my gosh. It is freezing out. To our listeners out there, We are in Cleveland where it's a balmy four degrees or one degree, depending upon the device you look at, and it is just frigid.   Susan Stone: Okay, So hubby last night noted that there are no terms for cold and it's been called an ‘arctic blast’. You ever thought that we were experiencing…    Kristina Supler: I feel like I've heard like local weather people use different iterations of Arctic blast. Arctic freeze. I don't know.   Susan Stone: All I know is I was trying to walk the dogs yesterday and it was truly a miserable experience for me and the dogs. They didn't even want to go out and go to the bathroom. It was awful.   Kristina Supler: Funny, I had the same experience this morning when I took my two dogs out. It was like quick rush, take your business and get back inside. But even inside, Freezing. Freezing, freezing, freezing.   Susan Stone: Yeah, and didn’t you have… What happened with your uh… was it your, was it your water heater? Your power? What happened this weekend?   Kristina Supler:  So, Cleveland got a big storm over the weekend and yeah, I didn't have power for 24 hours so I was, we were away. It's fortunate that we were away but it was a little nerve racking in terms of, I don't know, bad things happening in the house. Fortunately, my husband informed me that power has no impact on our heating system because we have steam. I didn't really know. Yes, but yeah, food in the fridge, all those fun issues that Midwesterners deal with, so on and so forth. But here we are today and hopefully we've got something light and funny that can warm things up.   Susan Stone: Yeah. You know what we did yesterday? I took my youngest and we went and saw Mean Girls.   Kristina Supler: Oh I read about the like re- uh, relaunch of that movie. I’ve never seen it. Tell me about it.   Susan Stone: Well, I love the original. And the original was amazing. Rachel McAdams, Lindsay Lohan,   Kristina Supler: I was gonna say isn’t Lindsay Lohan in it. That's. Yeah, the two comes to mind.   Susan Stone: Yeah. And that was one of her. And she's in the remake.   Kristina Supler: How’s she looking these days?   Susan Stone: She's looking gorgeous.   Kristina Supler: Really, good! Good.   Susan Stone: Shout out to you, Lindsay. You are aging fine. But I will say, Tori, my 18 year old, did not like the movie at all.   Kristina Supler: Really? Why? Now, did she had she seen the original or. No?   Susan Stone:  No, she had. She just thought.   Kristina Supler: the remake was not hitting her right?   Susan Stone: No. She thought it was insulting to her intelligence.   Kristina Supler: Why is that?   Susan Stone: Well, she felt like it didn't capture the original flavor of bullying. And she thought bullying is such an important topic that they sort of made fun of it and made light of it and made it seem ridiculous.   Kristina Supler:  So let me ask you, was there any, like redeeming message or takeaway for viewers of the movie? Any lessons to be learned?   Susan Stone: I mean It was the same lesson be kind, be nice, blah, blah, blah. I'm not trying to put down.   Kristina Supler: Sure that's and that's a good one, but it's a little basic.   Susan Stone: But the way it was delivered, that's the word   Kristina Supler: Basic.   Susan Stone:  It was basic. Yeah. So, you know, I wanted to love it. I want it to because I love the original and I know there's now the musical and, you know I love me a Musical.   Kristina Supler: You love a Musical.   Susan Stone: Oh my gosh. I mean, there isn't a musical that I don’t rush and see.   Kristina Supler: I think it's so funny that we're talking about this because I have to imagine while and I've experienced that, sometimes people think that as lawyers we’re, you know, reading the news and thinking about Supreme Court opinions and all these, you know, intellectual things, and here we are, “Hey, Supler I saw Mean Girls yesterday”.    Susan Stone: But on to our topic about the way kids talk and how language changes. So I was, I did a little research. Truthfully, I forgot the fun terms I used when I was in high school or were popular in the eighties.   Kristina Supler: Okay, lay it on me.    Susan Stone: Okay. Ready?   Kristina Supler: Ready.   Susan Stone: Gag me with the spoon. Did you say that?   Kristina Supler:  Never. No. I can honestly say no. I never said Gag me with a spoon.   Susan Stone: Ready?   Kristina Supler: Ready.   Susan Stone:  Eat my shorts.   Kristina Supler: Uh that, that I'm familiar with through one, Bart Simpson. You really said that? You said eat my shorts.    Susan Stone: I didn't, but others did.   Kristina Supler: I just. What does is it really mean? Like, like.   Susan Stone: Do you think it means Bug off? Maybe. I think that's what it means. Eat my shorts.    Kristina Supler: Okay.   Susan Stone: And gnarly.   Kristina Supler: Now, Now. Okay. Who doesn't know? Gnarly. Sure. I think gnarly still kind of with us. The West Coast vibe a bit. I don't know.   Susan Stone: So, Let's talk about some of the terms. I didn't know that well. Proposed by our fine marketing department.   Kristina Supler: Let me ask you, though, what's what generation were you? Are you?   Susan Stone: I am the beginning of Gen X.   Kristina Supler: Ohhhh.   Susan Stone: Babies baby   Kristina Supler:  Sure, sure, sure, sure.   Susan Stone: Madonna spoke. You can't see me Voguing. Voguing, guys.   Kristina Supler: Best music video ever. Ever! What's interesting about that is I think of myself as a Gen Xer, but actually, I shudder to admit this. I don't want to admit this, but I must. I am technically the beginning of millennials.   Susan Stone: There is nothing about you that’s a Millennials   Kristina Supler: I don't identify that way. I really see myself as a Gen Xer like the nineties vibe, but I guess according to the internet, according to Wikipedia or what have you, I'm technically a first year millennial.   Susan Stone: That's interesting that I’m a Gen Xer. I was a latchkey kid, and for those of you who don't know what that is, my mom went to work and I had a, what was it, a shoestring with a key.   Kristina Supler: You literally had a key on a shoestring.   Susan Stone: I literally had a key on a shoestring.   Kristina Supler: I didn't know that was a real thing.   Susan Stone: That's why they called it ‘latchkey kids’ Supler. It's a real thing.   Kristina Supler: Well, I have to confess, I grew up in a house that we never locked. I never had a key.   Susan Stone: That's a beautiful thing.   Kristina Supler: It actually is.   Susan Stone: That’s a beautiful thing .And I was the MTV generation who didn't remember Tabatha Sorenson. So cute. And I was on MTV once.    Kristina Supler: No.   Susan Stone: Yeah, I danced.   Kristina Supler: Tell me more.   Susan Stone: There's not that much to tell.   Kristina Supler: On the Grind? Were you on MTV on the Grind?   Susan Stone: It was one of those shows, you literally waited in line and when they told you to dance, you danced. It's hilarious.   Kristina Supler: But was it the Grind? Yes or no?   Susan Stone: I don't think so.   Kristina Supler:  Because I really hope that it was.   Susan Stone: And my roommate in college had a picture of Ronald Reagan above her bed.   Kristina Supler: (Laughing) What did she love him?   Susan Stone: She loved him.   Kristina Supler: Was she attracted to him?   Susan Stone:  I don’t know Ronny was hot. Ronny was hot.   Kristina Supler: Sensible citizen. Oh my God. Now that is the funniest thing.   Susan Stone: Okay, guys Let’s talk about some words and then we can respond to what this generation is "saying. And I am going to mispronounce it, but ’gyat’.   Kristina Supler: I, I just can't with this one. With this one, I just can't. I am told, so for all of our listeners out there, I've only recently come to learn this, this word, this phrase, and apparently it is a high compliment. It is a major, major compliment to give someone indicating that their derriere is large.    Susan Stone: Yeah. I asked my daughter, do you know what ‘gyat’ is? She’s just like ass. I'm like, okay.   Kristina Supler: Yeah. So I guess it rhymes with squat or bought    Susan Stone: or fiat.   Kristina Supler: And then it can also be, I guess I'm told, an acronym for something about the backside being thick. I don't know.   Susan Stone:  But I have to be honest, I've never heard it used in my house.   Kristina Supler: I've never heard it used. I've never seen it. I mean, in our work representing students, we read a lot of text messages and social media posts. I've never even read it in a text, so I personally am very circumspect about this word and its use and popularity. I feel like a journalist or someone Internet writer out there just like made it up or heard one person use it and then said, oh parents, hey, you need to know this word. And it's really not a thing.   Susan Stone:

Welcome to Real Talk with Susan and Kristina! In this episode, we’ll dive into the importance of addressing uncomfortable topics with your children. Join us as we explore why these difficult conversations are crucial for your child's well-being and navigating life's challenges. Gain practical tips on addressing sensitive subjects, fostering open communication, and dive into real-life situations drawn from our cases and personal experiences with our own children. LINKS MENTIONED IN THE SHOW:  https://studentdefense.kjk.com/  https://www.instagram.com/stonesupler/ https://www.amazon.com/Yes-Your-Kid-Parents-Todays/dp/1637743807 TRANSCRIPT: Susan Stone: Welcome back to Real Talk with Susan Stone and Kristina super. We are full time moms and attorneys bringing our student defense legal practice to life with real candid conversations.   Susan Stone: Okay. This is Martin Luther King Day, and we're in our new studio. What do you think about our new digs? Miss Supluar.    Kristina Supler: I like it. Fix some adjustment. But I. I actually. I think it's nice. It's cozy. It's more intimate.   Susan Stone: that is interesting. Well, hopefully not as interesting as our topic today, which is parenting through tough conversation. Anything recent you want to share from the old simpler house?    Kristina Supler: Funny you should ask. So recently we had a little tough conversation parenting moment in my household with my daughter and some Netflix content. Let me tell you, these these parent settings and these accounts, number one parent listeners out there, if you don't know how to do that and check for content and age-appropriate restrictions, please do so. Very important because if you don't, your child has unfettered access to everything, and I learned that on Netflix. If you don't put on like parental controls and kids are watching like they can access NC 17 material, there's some steamy stuff on there.    Susan Stone: You know what? I had no idea, but I want to know where to find that steamy material. (Laughing) Kidding    Kristina Supler: After a long day of work, Susan's going home and firing up the Netflix.   Susan Stone:  But my kids are older, so I don’t have to worry about it.   Kristina Supler: So, you can do that. That's right. That's right. But yes, there are these settings. Make sure you have you know, how they work, and they're turned on and fired up and good to go. But so, it was brought to my attention by, I'll just say, a family member    Susan Stone: a family member   Kristina Supler: that said, hey, you might want to give an eye towards, you know, what your daughter's looking at. And I said, my gosh, thank you for telling me. Because I think it's important to not always say, my child would never do that. You have to sort of be open to the possibility of your kid doing anything.    Susan Stone: Well, Supler considering you are a coauthor on a book saying, yes, your kid, it would be slightly hypocritical if you didn't think your own kid could do something.   Kristina Supler: Indeed, indeed. And to our listeners out there, check out. Yes, your kid available at all. Booksellers    Susan Stone: I did not mean for that to be a plug.   Kristina Supler: no no.   Susan Stone: But I was topical.   Kristina Supler: I had to seize the moment. So at any rate, I said, Well, let me do some digging and you know, you like to call me investigators Suplar   Susan Stone: Oh my gosh.For the listeners out there, nobody and I mean nobody can get to the bottom of different facts. Like my law partner Kristina Suplesr. So, what did you do?    Kristina Supler: Well, so I start doing a little a little digging just late light investigation. Let's say I call my husband and loop him in to what's before us. I get his thoughts. And I was like, you know, before before having that parent child moment, I want to get my own facts right so that I know. So I sort of like a little, I want to say test, but I suppose it is test like is my is my when I confront my daughter, will she be truthful with me or not? So that you know, I know where to go with the conversation. So we did some investigating and digging that my husband got all in on it and like for hours were testing iteration of what you can and can't do with these shows and what record shows up in this and that. Just to know, you know, what what actually happened, it is best we could. Of course. And it was interesting because my daughter eventually had a conversation. She said, Mom, I wasn't watching those shows.   Susan Stone: And is it true?   Kristina Supler:  I went through that viewing history up, down, left and right. You can download spreadsheets. We did all these simulated tests and delete history.    Susan Stone: Tacky for me, way too tacky.    Kristina Supler: The shows weren't there, so I don't know if look, we don't know what happened and who did what, but what I do know is that I saw no evidence that my daughter did what she was accused of doing.   Susan Stone: So, Not your kid,   Kristina Supler:  not my kid, fortunately. But that is not to say that it could never be my child. And I actually think you and I are both like very real about that possibility. That notwithstanding what we do for a living in conversations we have at home, things still happen.    Susan Stone: Yeah, we have difficult conversations with our clients every day.   Kristina Supler: Every day.   Susan Stone: And it is a skill.   Kristina Supler:  absolutely. And I would say it's a skill that requires cultivation and over time it's a skill you improve with experience, which is true of most things, but tough conversations, it's you get better at having them, but they don't ever really get easier.   Susan Stone:  It's not fun. But here's the deal. In today's day and age, what we're finding is that having tough conversations with your kids is more important. And at the same time, we're seeing a lot of conflict avoidance and it's creating bigger issues. Kristina Supler: I totally agree. I totally agree. And I will tell you, from our perspective as lawyers, of course, we want to help all of our clients and get the best outcome possible. But, you know, success. We arrest a lot. What's your success rate? And we sort of often say, well, you know, it's relative because every case is different. And the reality is, is that you can't always have a perfect outcome in every case. But the cases that hurt the most are the ones where we look at each other and we're like, this didn't have to happen this way.    Susan Stone: I agree. And when we talk to parents about why, why have the tough conversation? Because let's face it, nobody likes to confront their kid. Nobody wants to cause an argument.    Kristina Supler: No.   Susan Stone:  it's a fight.    Kristina Supler: No, you want to have nice, fun conversations about what are you getting for dinner and what's going on at school. But the reality is these tough conversations are so important because really, at any age, they're essential for helping, I think, keep your child safe, even when your child's a young adult.   Susan Stone: What I find is even when you're getting pushback from a particular child, they still hear you.    Kristina Supler: Oh absolutely. I totally agree. I totally agree. They hear you. And I think there's also just a component of sort of communicating to your child that you care and, you know, whether it's just that you want to see the best for them in all ways and it's okay to make mistakes. It's okay to be curious, but you just have to be smart about the choices you're making here.   Susan Stone:  You know what? Kids need to know where their parents stand on issues.    Kristina Supler: I totally agree. I totally agree. And, you know, that's a tough one in this day and age, because I think that, you know, we're in a country that's so divided and there's all these political issues, cultural issues, religious issues.I mean, you name it every day. There's some like very hot ticket controversial thing on the news. But I think it's so important as our children are being, you know, bombarded with content from tick tock and who knows where else that they know what their parents think that they know. You're like my mom and dad say that's important or my mom and dad or say that that's really dangerous, that it's just giving some structure to your kids.   Susan Stone: Talk about how to have a conversation, because you know what we know how students behave when confronted and we're not going to sell you the bull, that it's going to go swimming. This isn't a sitcom. Life is not a sitcom. So you might have pushback. You may have a temper tantrum. I've heard even of situations where things have gotten physical between parent and child. Things can go really wrong.   Kristina Supler: Oh I believe it.   Susan Stone:  Yeah,    Kristina Supler: I believe it. Especially with teens. And when there's hormones and angst and rage about life being unfair, I absolutely.    Susan Stone: So, when you're going to have a conversation. I think first time in place.    Kristina Supler: Yes. So what what do you think? What are your preferred times and places?    Susan Stone: It's hard. I at first thing, I'm a working mom,    Kristina Supler: Mhmmm   Susan Stone: so I can't do after school. That's not realistic for me.   Kristina Supler:  Right.   Susan Stone:  Ideally, that really is the best time, right when they get home from school.    Kristina Supler: Well, depending on age though, I don't know if your kids are younger. If they're older, they probably have sports or job or other stuff after school. But I hear you.    Susan Stone: I like where they're a captive audience. So ideally, again, the car is a great place because where are they going to go?   Kristina Supler: I agree with that. The car is a great place. We I drive my kids to school in the morning and sometimes it's a good opportunity for a quick check in the short drive, but a quick check in    Susan Stone: and nothing wrong

On this episode of Real Talk, Susan and Kristina are joined by Dr. Christopher Thurber for an insider’s guide to summer camp success.     Dr. Thurber has dedicated his professional life to improving how trusted adults nurture others and to enhancing the lives of adventurous youth. A graduate of Harvard and UCLA, Dr. Thurber has served as a psychologist and instructor at Phillips Exeter Academy since 1999. Over the past 25 years, he has been invited to lead workshops on five continents.   His best-selling family resource, The Summer Camp Handbook, was recently translated into Mandarin to help launch the youth camping movement in China. And his most recent book, The Unlikely Art of Parental Pressure, was described by The Atlantic as “a tour de force” and “the rare parenting book that respects both parents and children.”   Dr. Thurber’s research and writing have focused on homesickness prevention and healthy parenting, especially in the domains of pressure and learning from mistakes.     LINKS MENTIONED IN THE SHOW: https://drchristhurber.com/  https://www.exeter.edu/faculty/christopher-austin-thurber  https://www.amazon.com/Yes-Your-Kid-Parents-Todays/dp/1637743807   SHOW NOTES:   Introduction and the importance of planning for children’s summer camp (00:21) Introduction of Dr. Christopher Thurber (00:57) Ideal age for children to start attending overnight summer camps (1:53) Benefits of longer stays at camps and how they affect homesickness and personal growth (3:07) Insights into the positive impacts of summer camps on children's social skills and self-confidence (5:54) Choosing the right summer camp and what to look for (7:34) The role of camp advisors and the best time to start looking for summer camps (9:19) Indicators of a camp’s quality (10:14) Tips on how to vet summer camps (11:46) Addressing homesickness and how to prepare your child for camp experiences (14:32) Impact of technology and social media on children's camp experiences (17:00) Guidance on managing communication with children at camp (19:19) Advice for parents on conversations to have with their children before sending them to camp for the first time (22:55) Importance of not making 'pickup deals' with children and fostering independence (24:24) Tips for selecting the right camp (26:00) Conclusion with final advice for parents on preparing for the camp season and fostering a positive experience for their children (28:00)   TRANSCRIPT: Susan Stone: Welcome back to Real Talk with Susan Stone and Kristina Suler. We are full-time moms and attorneys bringing our student defense legal practice to life with real candid conversation. Susan Stone: Kristina, believe it or not, even though we're looking outside and there's a lot of snow out there, yuck. Did you know what time it is? Kristina Supler: Well, umm, if I'm thinking about what we're going to talk about today, I'm gonna guess that we're in the time of year that despite the snow outside, we have to start planning for our children's summers. Susan Stone: And especially summer camp. Believe it or not, if you want your child to go to one of the more, uh, popular summer camps, now is the time that you would register. And it's hard to think about it because like Santa Claus hasn't even come down that shoe. Kristina Supler: I know, and I'm particularly excited to speak with today's guest because I'm in, in my own family, wrestling with the idea of sending my son off to camp. And so this is, I'm really looking forward to today's talk. Susan Stone: We might learn a little something on real talk. Why don't you introduce our guests? Kristina Supler: Sure. Today we are joined by Dr. Chris Thurber, who has dedicated his professional life to improving how adults nurture others and enhance the lives of youth. A graduate of Harvard and UCLA, Dr. Thurber has served as a psychologist and instructor at Phillips Exeter Academy since 1999. Susan Stone: I've heard of it. Kristina Supler: Sure, he's written some books. His best-selling family resource is the Summer Camp Handbook, which has been translated into Mandarin. Believe it or not, and more recently, he has authored The Unlikely Art of Parental Pressure, which was described by the Atlantic as, “the rare parenting book that respects both parents and children”. Dr. Thurber's research and writing have focused on homesickness prevention, healthy parenting and helping children learn from mistakes. So Doctor Thurber, thanks for joining us today. Dr. Chris Thurber: Thanks for having me as a guest. Yeah, I'm excited to be here. Susan Stone: So it's so funny. I was thinking about summer camp and I still remember that when my oldest, whose birthday it is today, happy birthday, Alex. But when she was in 3rd grade, I went on a field trip to Maine with her and we looked at camps together. Kristina Supler: I can only imagine. Ohh camp touring. What a life. Susan Stone: Yeah, it was great. We had the best bonding time, but the question is for you. I chose for to be a rising 4th grader as a time to go to camp. We looked at camps when she was a rising 3rd grader. In your professional opinion, what is the best time to send students away for a summer camp and experience? And I just have a second part to that question. I chose a camp where I just threw my kid in for seven weeks because I was told on from a well-known Cleveland area psychologist that they do better with a longer stint because when you do a shorter stint, just as you're getting over homesickness, you're yanking them away. Thoughts? Dr. Chris Thurber: Well, in terms of what age a child should be at overnight summer camp and I, I do think that like any experience overnight timer camp is not for everyone. But I would say that in my experience as a parent, as a researcher, as a psychologist, there's probably a camp for everyone. And I think it's a perfect complement to the traditional classroom setting. So a way of boosting kids social and emotional learning, a way of increasing their social skills, their confidence, their sense of adventure. And there's wonderful research to support all of my life experience and anecdotal evidence. The age at which a young person might go to overnight camp for the first time depends a lot on their previous life experiences and a little bit on their personality, and I think the way I would answer that question is not by giving you a number like 7 years old or 8 years old or 9 years old. But I could say that most overnight camps uh would take children as young as seven or eight. So that tells you something about 150 years of trial and error has landed us at that age, but for particular child, it really is gonna depend on that parent or primary caregiver looking carefully at that child's readiness, which depends a lot on what previous experience that child has had away from home. I don't know for Alex, but I would imagine that she had spent overnight at a friend's house, or she'd been at her grandparents house without you there for a couple of days. And that's the perfect sort of preparation for multiple weeks at an overnight camp. Susan Stone: And do you have a thought about the second part of my question, 4 weeks versus 7 weeks or maybe even shorter depending on the camp? Dr. Chris Thurber: Well, I haven't in my experience noticed a difference in the factor that your friend cited, which is intensity of homesickness. In fact, this was what I wrote my dissertation on was homesickness and have followed the research that's been done since then, quite closely enough to know that there isn't a difference in, say, homesickness intensity between someone who's staying at camp for two weeks versus 4 weeks versus 7 weeks. That again, I would say your friend was right in that longer stays and I would say four weeks or more result in a more immersive experience for young people and that shorter stays just a few days are a good taste of what? Overnight camp is like, but aren't gonna create the kind of social bonds and result in the sort of self-reliance and you know, willingness to try new things that will happen with a longer stay. Susan Stone: That's exactly what I learned at that time. That you'd really takes a good chunk of time like 4 weeks as the minimum before you can really develop the friendships, develop leader styles, or even reinvent yourself. You could be that nerd at school and that fabulous person at camp. It's a chance of really defining yourself. Kristina Supler: Sounds like a good movie. Dr. Chris Thurber: It is very cool in that way. Well, it's a good movie and an even better experience. It's one we, you know, we underestimate sometimes. I think the social pressures that young people feel in elementary school even and you mentioned the unlikely art of parental pressure that I wrote with Hank Weissinger. We took a look at a lot of the research that's been done and were surprised ourselves to see how pernicious the effects of unhealthy pressure are for even elementary school age children and a lot of it is about pressure to conform, conform to dress, conform to preferences for favorite TV shows and how you present yourself online. So there are a lot of different domains of conformity, all of which happily evaporate at the best camps, and I think that that sort of reinventing yourself and boost in self-confidence can happen in as little as two weeks. I would also agree with you that a longer stay like 4 or 7 is going to strengthen that young person's confidence. Kristina Supler: Dr. Thurber, I'm curious to hear your thoughts for our listeners out there, parents with the child, let's just say in grade school age is irrelevant, but a child who's maybe only slept at grandparent's house or has had maybe one or two sleepovers with a friend family member, whomever, what advice would you give those parents for sort of the building blocks to help ease your child into this experience to go away from home? Dr. Chris Thurber: To have more of those, I mean, and we we

Are you familiar with the term "Turkey Drop"? This phenomenon occurs when college freshmen return home for Thanksgiving and often part ways with their hometown sweethearts. In a special Thanksgiving episode of Real Talk, hosts Susan and Kristina are joined by three students from a prominent midwestern university. Each student candidly shares their personal experiences of going through breakups during this period, offering valuable insights into the complexities and emotions leading up to these moments of transition.     LINKS MENTIONED IN THE SHOW: https://www.amazon.com/Yes-Your-Kid-Parents-Todays/dp/1637743807     SHOW NOTES: ·       Introduction to the show and hosts, Susan Stone and Kristina Supler (00:01) ·       Discussion on the excitement of the first Thanksgiving when students come home from college (00:14) ·       Introduction of the "Turkey drop" concept and personal experiences (00:38) ·       Introduction of three student guests: Laney, Jenna, and Morgan (01:41) ·       Discussion on the reasons behind the "Turkey drop" (06:02) ·       Sharing locations with friends and partners for safety and convenience (08:59) ·       Experiences post "Turkey drop" and current relationships with ex-partners (16:04) ·       Advice for freshmen with high school relationships (17:49) ·       Suggestion for a holiday gift: the book "Yes, your Kid" (19:35) ·       Conclusion and thanks to the guests (20:10) ·       Outro and promotion for the show (20:46)   TRANSCRIPT: Susan Stone: Welcome back to Real Talk with Susan Stone and Kristina Suler. We are full-time moms and attorneys bringing our student defense legal practice to life with real candid conversation. Susan Stone: So in anticipation of Thanksgiving, Kristina, I wanted to do a really fun podcast, but I have to tell you that I know parents who have the freshmen who went off to college. The parents are so excited because there's nothing like that. First Thanksgiving when your kid comes home from college one day. You'll say that to me. I remember when you told me that. Kristina Supler: I'm sure I don't doubt it. Susan Stone: But not all is Turkey and pumpkins because some kids come home from college and they do the Turkey drop, which is when college kids come home and break up with their hometown, honey. But Kristina, you have an interesting view of this and actually so do I, but I want to hear what you say. Kristina Supler: I did not do the Turkey drop, so I married my high school sweetheart. I didn't come home from Thanksgiving and do the breakup that you see everywhere. And now I'm married and have two kids, Susan Stone: And I also want to share, and I hope I don't embarrass her, that my own daughter did not do the Turkey drop and she just married her high school sweetheart this summer. So it doesn't always happen. But with that said, I'm hoping we're going to get into some juicy conversation about it. Why don't you introduce our guests? Kristina Supler: Yes. We are really excited today to be joined by three students from a wonderful Midwestern university that we're very familiar with. We're joined today by Laney, Jenna, and Morgan, who are going to share with us their perspectives on the Turkey drop. So ladies, without giving away anything that would reveal your identities, tell us a little bit about yourselves and what you're doing at school and really what you know about the Turkey drop Susan Stone: And identify yourselves because of course our listeners can only hear you and not see you. So say it's Jenna, it's Laney. Jenna: I'm Jenna. I am currently applying to law school right now, which is exciting and going through the process. Yes, and I did participate in the Turkey drop my freshman year of college. Susan Stone: What happened? Jenna: Pretty much verbatim what the Turkey drop would be. Two days after Thanksgiving, he came over to my family Thanksgiving party and then I was like, this is just not it anymore. And then two days later we broke up and now he's dating my best friend from high school. Susan Stone: No, well, there you go. Jenna, what question? Were you both freshmen at different colleges or was he your hometown and still in high school? Jenna: He was from my hometown, but we were both at separate colleges. We went separate colleges, so did long distance for the first three months and then called it quits. Susan Stone: Was it hard for you? I was just going to ask. Jenna: I was upset a little bit, but I was very much ready for the relationship to be over. But I feel like when you're date for a while, it's always a little bit upsetting, but definitely. Well, it's Susan Stone: We’ll it’s always over until you meet the one, right? Right. Yeah. Laney, what about you? Lany: Okay, so my story's a little bit different. Well, I'm Laney and I am a marketing major, and I did the Turkey drop second or my second year of college, so my sophomore year. So we actually made it through the freshman year, but then sophomore year we did it for a while. I just kind of was like, I don't even know. I was kind of just bored. I needed something new and then I was seeing all these new faces at school, so I just decided to participate in the Turkey drop and it happened. Well, he knew it was coming that I was going to break up with him. So when we were from the same hometown, but we went to two separate colleges, but he knew I was going to break up with him, so he just made me do it over the phone because he didn't want to have to see me in person to do it. I think he was embarrassed. Susan Stone: I think that's reasonable, don't you? Yeah, I mean, Lany: Yeah, it's reasonable. We ended up talking after that, but we dated for about four years, so I feel like it would've been a little more mature if he let me do it in person. Kristina Supler: Oh, that's a long relationship to just have a breakup over the phone actually. I agree with you. Lany: Yeah, I agree. Yeah, but then we ended up talking later over Thanksgiving, I think at Christmas break is when we actually ended up talking in person. But nope, just over Thanksgiving break I went for a drive and just broke up with him over the phone. Kristina Supler: Morgan, what about you Morgan? Morgan: I know. So I participated in the Turkey job my freshman year of college and we went to two different colleges. We dated all through high school and I don't know, I kind of just got to college and realized there's more to do in the world than be with my high school boyfriend, and I just decided that it was becoming a lot, having to keep up with him all the time, and I thought it was time to go our separate ways. Susan Stone: And I mean, was the grass greener on the other side of the fence? Morgan: Yes, I will say I think that's so bad, but I think it was a long time coming Halloween and he surprised me on Halloween right before we went home for Thanksgiving and it was fine, except I think I realized that was when I wasn't the most excited to be seeing him. I was excited for a fun Halloween with my new friends that I had met at college. So it was definitely that for me that I realized I think I was better off just doing my own thing and being more independent than having to rely on my high school boyfriend. Susan Stone: Well, that leads me to the question for all three of you, and maybe we just kind of go in reverse order. What do you think the main reasons are for the Turkey drop? Morgan: I think for me, it wasn't even like I met someone new at school that I was interested in. I think it was more just realizing I didn't want to have to be, I don't know. I wanted to be able to go out and not have to worry about texting my boyfriend where I was, who I was with, what I was doing. And that's kind of what it was for me freshman year because I know for me, I really loved my school, but for him it was a bit of a different story. So it was just two different dynamics and I think it was just time for us to part ways and meet new people.  Lany: I would say almost the same thing. Yeah, we went to two very different schools. He was playing a sport in college, the division one sport, so he was super busy and we were just living two completely different lives and I was just meeting a bunch of people and we're in a sorority, so taking people to date parties, it kind of just got to the point where I just wanted to be able to go to more date parties with boys and bring them to mine. And I don't know, just our schools were very different, so I feel like I would be doing things completely different than he would on the weekends. He would be going to games and I would be going out and stuff. Just meeting a lot of people.  Jenna: And then I think for me was our relationship was fine, except I think that once we both went our separate ways to college, we were a little too okay without each other and we never went to visit each other, never really cared to. So I think it was more of a just fizzling out of a relationship because we just really kind of realized that we were very okay without each other and didn't really need that anymore. Susan Stone: So I have a question, Jenna, you mentioned not wanting to have to go out and then check in with your boyfriend when you got home. I am curious, how common is it that you share your locations and you check in with each other after a night out? Are all college students doing that now or is that something that only parents do to keep an eye on their students? Jenna: It's actually funny. I still have his location. He still has mine really, because we just never unshared them. But I think, all my friends have my locations and stuff, so I think it's really common now just for a lot of people to have your location, not necessarily making sure you're in a certain place or whatever, more for safety purposes and stuff and just because fun to see where everyone is. I do think it's kind of normal now if you guys would say the same. Ye

On this episode of Real Talk, Susan and Kristina are joined by Dr. Debby Herbenick to discuss their new book, Yes, Your Kid: What Parents Need to Know About Today's Teens and Sex. Covering various aspects of sexuality and sexual education including the challenges of working with students in crisis situations, the evolving definitions of what constitutes "sex," and the prevalence of rough sex practices, specifically choking, in contemporary sexual experiences. In this episode, they touch on the confusion and lack of comprehensive sexual education, and how the digital age and online media have further complicated these issues. The conversation highlights how different individuals may have varying definitions and perspectives on what constitutes sexual activity.   Pre-Order Our Book "Yes, Your Kid" Today!   Links Mentioned in the Show ·       https://www.amazon.com/Yes-Your-Kid-Parents-Todays/dp/1637743807 ·       https://sexualhealth.indiana.edu/   Show Notes: Book announcement (00:25) Introduction of Dr. Debby Herbenick (1:50) Book summary (3:10) Why should parents buy this book? (4:10) The different perspectives during the writing process (6:10) How the research is different from the legal perspective (9:57) How the types of cases change over time (13:30) How sex changes (15:00) How choking has grown in prevalence (18:10) How well are students educated about sex (19:40) How the internet changes student education (21:40) How the definition of sex changes over time (22:20) How different groups of people define sex (25:45) The goal of being an “askable” parent “(27:50) The importance of providing information to kids and students (30:00) What was your favorite part of writing this book (32:05) How sex on the spectrum is discussed (34:50) Current trends of mental health in students (36:30)

In this episode of Real Talk, KJK Student Defense Attorneys Susan Stone and Kristina Supler discuss the digital landscape, what parents should be aware of and how to promote healthy offline connections. Pre-Order Our Book "Yes, Your Kid" Today! Show Notes: ·         Discussing the digital landscape, what’s new and what parents should be aware of (00:45) ·         What platforms are commonly used? (1:20) ·         Description and explanation of Snapchat (2:15) ·         What can parents do at home (3:20) ·         Cell phones and driving (4:35) ·         How phones effect sleep (5:20) ·         How to help promote healthy offline connections (6:10) ·         How the pandemic effected digital habits (7:15) ·         Offline activities (8:30) ·         Being aware of online bullying (9:20) ·         Social media and FOMO (9:50) Transcript Susan Stone: Welcome back to Real Talk with Susan Stone and Christina Soupler. We are full-time moms and attorneys, bringing our student defense legal practice to life with real, candid conversation. After school time is happening, and I think you and I need to explore what we saw last year to helpfully give our listeners some food for thoughts this school year for younger kids, the middle school and high school crowd.   Kristina Supler: Today we're going to talk about the digital landscape and what parents need to know and what's going on out here.   Susan Stone: Now what's new? And what's new today will not be new, it changes every day. So I think our first piece of advice to parents is stay on it.   Kristina Supler: And don't give up hope. I mean so often we hear, I don't know, I'm not good with tech these kids in their phones, who knows. But I mean at the end of the day, you don't have to know the intricacies of how to post the most perfect video. You just have to understand the platforms that kids are using and generally what's going on and what are the dangers of those platforms really.   Susan Stone: So to prepare, I called my rising senior and said, "What is everyone on your grade on?" I thought I'd start there and I wasn't surprised. We knew the answers.   Kristina Supler: TikTok and Snapchat.   Susan Stone: TikTok and Snapchat. Everybody is both viewing and making videos on TikTok, TikTok, is trending really well. And that B-roll, B-real, right, Kristina?   Kristina Supler: B-real.   Susan Stone: B-real. Real film. Got it. Where they would send a notification and then you have to take a quick picture. What was the purpose of that? That was a new one.   Kristina Supler: I guess to be spontaneous and be your authentic self versus having these perfectly choreographed videos. And anyway, it's always changing. But there's ways for parents to find out what's going on out there.   Susan Stone: Word of advice on snapchat. So the whole idea of parents for those of you who don't know is that you send a snap, I guess that's what it's called, and then it disappears. Does it?   Kristina Supler: I would say yes and no or sometimes. I mean, it seems like every case that we have there's an issue with snapchat and sometimes messages are recoverable, believe it or not, through backup files and other means and forensic analysis. But often they're not. And, you know, again, sometimes it's a blessing that messages can't be recovered. And then you know, sometimes you're like, oh, I would do anything if we could track down these messages. So, you know, I think snapchat it's just one of those things where the bottom line should be, you don't know what's going to happen. Just be thoughtful about what you put out into the universe.   Susan Stone: And don't assume just because you send a snap to somebody that it is going to disappear before someone has had a time, a chance to take a screenshot. Show and reproduce and send off that snap. Careful what you snap in a snap.   Kristina Supler: Amen, there you go. What about, I mean, what can parents do at home to educate their children about online safety and then model healthy behaviors?   Susan Stone: Well, I don't like lecturing. It never works. I think modeling healthy behaviors,   Kristina Supler: I totally agree.   Susan Stone: And I just share one pet peeve that I see all the time. I hate phones at the dinner table.   Kristina Supler: I agree. And in my house, we're actually very strict about that because if we weren't, there absolutely be a cell phone and then iPad at the dinner table. There'd be a YouTube video playing in the background and my husband and I was like, turn it off, turn it off. And it's just sort of like, eyeroll, okay, mom, fine. But if we didn't make them do it, they wouldn't do it.   Susan Stone: Well, let's be clear. Adults are just as bad about looking at their phone.   Kristina Supler:  Absolutely. Oh my gosh. Absolutely. It's how often do I know I catch myself all the time. I'm in a conversation, I'm listening and then I pull out my phone and I'm still kind of listening, but I'm also like totally engrossed in my Instagram feed and it's just you don't even realize how splintered your attention is.   Susan Stone: Do not look at your phone while you're driving that is in no bueno distracted driving is a huge problem. Kristina Supler:  And I don't have data. I wish I had some study to say I'm sure there's good research out there, but you know, I would say the reality is regardless of your age, texting and driving, bad, dangerous because if you're looking at your phone, by definition, you're not looking at the road.   Susan Stone: I'm very mindful that my children have always seen a pile of books. Very messily next to on my bed, stand next to my bed.   Kristina Supler: Same with me.   Susan Stone: I mean, I always have five books going, but the other night I caught myself looking at my phone and you know, it's not good for healthy sleep.   Kristina Supler:  No, and actually that that was something. I guess you could say I had the good fortune of learning back in college. I had tremendous trouble with sleeping. Insomnia, I would dread going to bed because I was just later for hours and hours and hours. Yeah, and you know, through that though, I learned the importance of having really good boundaries with electronics and the bedroom. And so not laying in bed on your phone or not looking at your laptop, shooting off some emails before you try to go to bed because you can't wind down.   Susan Stone: Well, and again, it's that modeling. If you want your kids not to be addicted to their devices, we have to establish healthy boundary with our own devices.   Kristina Supler: Absolutely. So what do your thoughts, Susan, on how to help promote really healthy offline connections?   Susan Stone: By doing.   Kristina Supler: Yeah.   Susan Stone: Again, it's that modeling. And so, I think it's important to, when I know when I go out and walk the dog to just say, "Hey, you want to come with me to walk the dog?"   Kristina Supler: Yeah, and I think this is one of those things that it's ironic that we're talking about this in the context of healthy tech habits because I think the practical advice is rooted in just old fashioned behaviors. And by that, I mean, just do stuff, try sports, try other clubs, maybe it's theater, just find stuff that's interesting. And it's through trial and error, you know, some kids are going to find stuff easier than others that they like. Some kids like everything they do. Others don't. Others, it's a more difficult journey to find stuff that's interesting and exciting. But you just have to keep encouraging them. And I think as parents, it's so easy, we come home from work, we're exhausted. Our children just want to be left alone in their bedrooms, but we still have to encourage them to do stuff. We still have to make the effort to have conversations, right?   Susan Stone: It was really challenging during the pandemic. Everybody lived virtually. For me, the conversation is how lucky we are that we're not living that pandemic life, even though, of course, people still get COVID. And it's here to stay. We're not locked in our homes. We can interact. There are people out and about into really show gratitude for things that were taken away from us.   Kristina Supler: That's such a great point about, you know, essentially perspective, because if you think about it in 2021, 2020, when we were locked in our houses and couldn't go anywhere, it was just like, "Oh, you do anything. You'd be exciting to go to Target, right?" And now it's interesting to see how sometimes we lose perspective on having the ability to go out and do things and socialize and interact with people. Susan Stone: I love going to the movies again. I don't care what anybody says. To me, there is nothing better than getting a big box of junior mints and sitting and watching a flick in a theater.cI love it.   Kristina Supler: I still want to be with you on this one. But I know like movie theaters. I actually, I am one of those people. I'd rather watch a movie in the comfort of my own home. But I hear you, though. I agree with your point generally speaking. Let's just getting out and doing things.   Susan Stone: And live theater in summer concerts.   Kristina Supler: Yeah. Yeah.   Susan Stone: Musical theater. I have my tickets for Six.   Kristina Supler: Oh, yes. I was looking at that over the weekend.   Susan Stone: The best. It'll be the second time I saw it. So I'm a repeat offender for sometimes seeing the same musicals. But everybody out there needs to stay informed on what's happening online. And be cautious about online bullying too.   Kristina Supler: Oh, that's that's such an important topic. And I actually think particularly with younger children now, little school, it's something that they're very aware of because they're taught so much about it in school. Which is a good thing that they know about it because let's face it, it does happen. And I mean, they don't want to be a total Debbie Downer, but let's face it, the internet is f

In this episode of Real Talk, KJK Student Defense Attorneys Susan Stone and Kristina Supler are joined by Carrie Hull, who founded the You Have Options Program, nationally recognized for providing reporting options for survivors of sexual violence. Carrie also created the Certified FETI® Program, standardizing trauma interviews. They discuss the importance of utilizing effective interviewing techniques in investigations, specifically within the realms of law enforcement and Title IX cases. They also explore the necessity of gathering accurate information and avoiding biased assumptions through neutral questioning. The role of body language and filtering out implicit bias is also discussed.   Show Notes: ·         Carrie’s Background (1:30) ·         The FETI framework (2:30) ·         The science and study behind FETI (4:15) ·         The applications of a FETI interview (5:30) ·         How to ask questions using the FETI methodology (7:00) ·         Collecting the dots vs connecting the dots (08:30) ·         Receiving answers without judgement (10:00) ·         Use in different disciplines (11:45) ·         How FETI can be used in Title IX cases (13:50) ·         The importance of framing an investigation (16:30) ·         The role of body language in an interview (18:00) ·         How to prevent leading questions (19:45) ·         How to filter implicit bias (21:00) ·         How a FETI investigation differs (23:00) ·         Conclusion (25:20)     Transcript: Susan Stone: Welcome back to Real Talk with Susan Stone and Christina Subler. We are full-time moms and attorneys bringing our student defense legal practice to life with real candid conversation. Today's episode is gonna focus on a topic that Christina and I really take for granted, and that's the actual interviewing process of somebody who is either reporting a Title IX complaint or a crime. Kristina Supler:  I am excited for today's guest because I think that sometimes when lawyers are brought in for student advisors, in particularly campus Title IX cases, there's so much focus on the hearing. But I know Susan, you and I always talk about how important the interview is, and we spend so much time preparing our students for their interview. Susan Stone:  I agree. And we have seen so many different styles of investigators. It's like snowflakes no two are the same. And I, I really do mean that we've seen people who make our students feel interrogated. Kristina Supler: Sure. And, and then we've also had, you know, investigators who I felt were very impartial and truly there to just have a conversation to collect evidence. Susan Stone: On the flip side, you want your investigator to be impartial, but you also want the details to come out and you wanna make sure they circle back and do a thorough investigation and really try to dig out the truth. Kristina Supler That's right. That's right. Well, I'm excited to speak with today's guest, Carrie Hall. Yeah. Carrie is an Oregon native, a former de detective with the Ashland Police Department and a leading figure in improving law enforcement responses to sexual violence. She created the Certified FETI® Program, which is an interviewing methodology intended to sort of standardize investigative interviews. And through her consultancy, Carrie Hall Consulting, she also offers specialized training to law enforcements across the globe. We're really pleased to have you join us today. Carrie. Welcome. Welcome, Carrie. Carrie Hull: Well, thanks so much.   Susan Stone: We're gonna start with the first question. We like to go broad and then whittle down called the, is that the funnel approach? Carrie?   Carrie Hull: Funnel Technique. Funnel Susan Stone: So describe the FETI framework. How's that? Carrie Hull: Yeah, so FETI stands for the Forensic Experiential Trauma Interview, and it really is made up of a series of principles and foundational, you know, metrics that are on the practitioner. So when we say practitioner, we mean the person who is conducting the interview. We don't have any requirements or any restrictions that are placed on what we consider the participant. We don't view our participants as victims, witnesses, suspects, anything like that, because we really want them to remain and us to remain in the neutral. We are fully just a methodology that is about information collection. So it's been very interesting when I, when I was listening to that introduction and you talking about interacting with some of these different investigators, what I think is such a defining piece for me as an investigator of FETI is that it forces me to stay in the interviewer role and not conflate being an investigator at the same time, which lets me gather information in such a, well, more robust way, but also a more accurate way, because I'm not driving towards a conclusion, which is really more of that investigative side. So what FETI does is it asks the practitioners to really just be an interviewer, even if their other roles are also to investigate and to put things together. What the forensic experiential trauma interview methodology allows us to do is stay very, very specifically in information collection. So within that, we have some, you know, pieces of our framework. It's science-based. That's very, very important for us because that as that changes, as the neuroscience and, you know, the information about the brain comes out about memory and encoding and retrieval, we wanna make sure that we are actually are applying that and it's not taking years and years to be able to bring that into our methodologies. And then we have something called opportunities for information, and that's the bulk of the methodology. It's talking about using brain-based cues, very specific, we call them systems of security, to provide a lot of options for the people who are stepping forward and giving information to be able to actually have that information collected, but also have it documented accurately. So for us, it's very, very specifically not an investigations practice. It's all about information collection. Kristina Supler: And what are the, the realms in which the applications for use of FETI methodology, criminal cases, school cases, a mix? Carrie Hull: Yeah, it's definitely a mix. It started out very much focused within sexual violence cases. So this was born out of law enforcement, specifically out of the Department of Defense in the Army. One of our instructors who was very active still with us, Lori Hyman, was the first one to actually use the FETI methodology within an investigation. And that was within the Army criminal command. And, and that was focused around sexual violence cases predominantly. So it started out being used with people who were stepping forward and either identified themselves or identified by someone else as a victim. What it has grown into in mainly because we wanna enhance that neutrality. Our learning was that this needed to not focus so much on what somebody was saying they were, or putting them into a box, but just trying to really gather the experience of what they are saying happened in a really three-dimensional way. Then we take that information and we move it into another system. That could be an investigation, that also could be a hiring process. I do a lot of work, surprisingly. I I did never intend for this to be the case in human resources. We use this a lot within human resources. So the applications are endless. It really is focused on if somebody has had an experience, being able to gather that and document it accurately. Susan Stone: Carrie, I have a question that drives me crazy when I listen to interviews and it's how should fact gatherers? 'cause I'm not gonna call you investigators. I'm learning, try to elicit information as to the ultimate issue without being too obvious. So for example, if you ask somebody, did you steal the cookie? What do you expect? No, no. With crumbs all over. And the reason I say that is we were just involved in an investigation where there were just blanket denials. And I can't help but think that the reason everyone was just denying was because the questions were just too conclusive. Kristina Supler: Did you do this really bad thing? It's true. Yeah. Yeah. Carrie Hull: Well, and, and for me, it's so funny when I hear stuff like this because it just takes me back to the beginning of my career as a detective. Well, even prior to that as an officer. And I wish that I had this understanding then, because I used to, you know, find myself in very similar situations. And it was frustrating for everybody. 'cause you just didn't seem like you were able to do anything with it. Right? You just had people on one end denying people on one end, assuming, and then not a lot of information being shared in between, which is not helpful. So if I just use the cookie analogy, I'll just use that as an example. Let's say you have somebody that has res all over their face, right? And you have somebody who's accusing them of taking a cookie that they weren't supposed to have.  And so what we would say with FETI is move back from looking and making the accusation, because you might be wrong, right? The experience of the crumbs could have come from numerous other things other than a stolen cookie. Some of them might be unlikely, but it doesn't mean that they're impossible. And so we really just focus on gathering what that experience was for the person. So if I was walking up and interviewing the person who had crumbs all over their face, I might start out by saying, you know, help me understand how you feel right now instead of accusing them of doing something. Because just like what you mentioned, that's not one gonna be probably the most fruitful way to do it. But more importantly, you might be wrong. And what you're doing by, by going into that sort of investigative focus, driving towards an answer is you're losing all the information that helps you u

Real Talk podcast is joined by Hank Nuwer, a renowned anti-hazing journalist, author, and scholar with over four decades of experience. He is known for his unwavering dedication to eradicating hazing culture and has authored many influential books on the subject. Hank maintains a comprehensive database of hazing deaths and continues to be a leading voice in raising awareness and advocating for prevention efforts in colleges and beyond. He is a respected authority on hazing and has conducted extensive research and interviews to shed light on this issue.   Show Notes: ●     Sharing personal experiences with hazing (01:20) ●     Analyzing the role of institutions in hazing prevention (05:10) ●     Highlighting the importance of education and awareness (08:15) ●     Should schools abolish Greek life or fraternity sororities? (10:25) ●     Discussion about different types of hazing (13:00) ●     How to define hazing (13.40) ●     How hazing manifests in different organizations (15:00) ●     Hank discusses his books and plays (19:00) ●     Hank discusses future projects (20:30) ●     Positive turn around stories from institutions (21:52) ●     Experiences at other universities (23:50) ●     How can we get coaches involved (25:00) ●     How lonliness factors into hazing (26:30) ●     Conclusion (28:00) Transcript:   Kristina Supler: Welcome back to Real Talk with Susan Stone and Christina Supler. We are full-time moms and attorneys bringing our student defense legal practice to life with real, candid conversations. Susan Stone: Today's podcast is going to tackle the issue of hazing and what a lot of you out there may not know is that Christina and I have looked at hazing from many different perspectives in our career. We have defended accused of hazing. We've actually been asked to help a Greek organization against accusations of hazing. And we have represented victims of hazing. So we have a real 360, don't Christina? Kristina Supler: We do and we're, as our listeners may know, we're located in Ohio, but we handle cases across the country. And what's interesting is that Ohio has been a real hotbed of this activity, though, of course, it happens in students across the country are dealing with these sorts of issues. So we're excited to jump into this topic today. Susan Stone: I really am too. And I am super excited about the guest we have. I feel very fortunate. I want all our listeners know before we give our name out that we reach out to him or her. And we just kept at it because I really wanted this guest on the podcast. So with that, why don't you do the intro? Kristina Supler: Sure. We are joined today by Hank Newer, who is a renowned anti-hazing journalist, author and scholar, known for his unwavering dedication to eradicating hazing culture. With over four decades of experience, he's authored many influential books. He maintains a comprehensive database of hazing deaths. And he continues to be a leading voice in raising awareness and advocating for prevention efforts in colleges and beyond. Welcome, Hank. We're so happy to have you with us today. Hank Newer: Thank you. I'm very pleased to be here. Susan Stone: And I got to add. We just learned Hank lives in Alaska. So we got a little northern exposure going on here. So I love it. But with Hank, let's kick it off. How did hazing become your career focus? Hank Newer: Not because I was hazed, but because I was at the University of Nevada, Reno. And we had a hazing death that was just off campus. But I had seen the initiation. At that time, hazing was rampant, not against the law in a lot of places. I had seen the initiation on campus. And then at a campus bar, I saw someone passed out at a pool table. He was foaming at the mouth. The organization was called the Sun Downers. And their alumni are some of the leading citizens in Nevada. The initiation consisted of making people drink ever clear. And they would throw a match at their lips. So a lot of people were-- Susan Stone: Oh my gosh. Hank Newer: Yeah, that was supposed to be funny. Kristina Supler: That's shocking. Hank Newer: It was. So the person that was foaming I got them to take him and walk him. But I think if I had called the police or so, they wouldn't have done it another time. And John Davies might still be alive. So they did it one more time. And they did this one, not in public. They went to an Indian reservation. And John Davies died, and another pledge was without oxygen for a while. And so I've done database reporting since the 70s. So I made a database of all the hazing deaths that were out there. And editor friend of mine put me in touch with Human Behavior Magazine. And so in the mid 70s, that first article came out. And I kept the database going ever since. Susan Stone: Wow. I can't even respond. Kristina Supler: I think your database is really an important resource. And tell us more about how you receive information and reports that you put into your database. And how do you verify the accuracy of this information? Hank Newer: It's actually time consuming. I also on the page have a long list of deaths that are not considered hazing deaths, but appeared in the press as deaths. Some of these, in particularly around 1900, were with sensational reporting. And I had to track them to find out if these really did occur. So mostly it's from media reports. But people get in touch all the time. If there's a death, the chances of me talking to the parents within two or three days are very good. They're going to be calling for information. And now I would say it's the most difficult part of doing this job. But it was a lot of time. And it was very expensive in the 70s. I had a pay for Lexus Nexus myself. I paid the New York Times for their database. And I started a list serve in the 80s. And people were sending in information on that list serve, which you still could find some places online. So I just kept that over and over. And the good thing about being so public, if people disagree or want to talk about it, it's all out there with full disclosure, where the information comes from. Kristina Supler: That's the purpose of the database. Hank Newer: Because in the set, as I said before, there were a lot of deaths that did not occur that were listed. People were taking any alcohol related death at all and calling it hazing. And so I was trying to break down the details as much as anything else. The next database I'll do will be all these sexual haze and cases involving athletes. And I hope to have that done next year. Susan Stone I'm sure you're thinking about that because of the Yates versus Northwestern case, am I correct? Hank Newer: You have a lot of phone calls about that. Kristina Supler: And we're seeing a real rise in those sorts of cases in our practice that we handle the issue from all different angles. So I think that's really important work you're doing. Susan Stone: I applaud you. What I want to know in your work because we address this, so I'm going to ask you a very selfish question, because I want to know the answer. But I'm sure Christina does too. So much of hazing is shrouded in secrecy and the members of hazing protect each other. What's the best way for a person who's a victim of hazing to gather the evidence to expose what's going on, especially in a culture of silence? Hank Newer: The way I try to do things is I go to the alums, people who've graduated a year or two earlier. And that's very, very quickly after a death when I'm doing a story. Talking to the alums, yes, some of them will close, you know, shut the phone on you, but others will talk about it. And it's a good way of getting into the middle. I try to talk to the advisors and get information from them. And if you just talk to people on campus, hazing isn't as shrouded in secrecy as you think. People are going to be talking to their significant others. So it's not the secret that fraternity members would like to think that it is. Susan Stone: For sports organizations, correct? Hank Newer: Yeah, for sport, well, one of the big problems is they don't consider it as hazing Kristina Supler: No, we know. We got it. We got it. I just wanted to comment that I think it's also important to point out, and I'd like to hear more of your thoughts. I think often hazing is sort of conceptually conceived of as just happening among young men in fraternities. And in fact, it spans across all student organizations, entities, athletic teams, military groups. And it's also not exclusively a male issue. I mean, Susan and I have plenty of case experiences involving female athletes in hazing. Can you talk a little bit more about what you're seeing in the breakdown? And is there any rise in female hazing in your research? Susan Stone: Generally, what are the trends? Hank Newer: Yeah, I don't really see a rise. I think it's consistent. We've not had a death this year or last year, but we've had so many close calls. So people would like to think that we have a trend of deaths ending. We don't. The people were lucky. Maybe what's happening is they're quicker to call 911 and not to just drop somebody off at the hospital where a few deaths have happened. Susan Stone: Or leave them at the foot of the stairs like at Penn State? Hank Newer: Yeah. Well, that-- he was just left alone there. But several times, members have gotten frightened and taken somebody to the hospital and just dropped them off at the emergency. And it's too late at that particular point. From what I saw in the one case, people went from standing up to being dead drunk and just short amount of time. So they're talking, talking, talking, and then suddenly, it hits them. That case of foaming at the mouth was the most dramatic that I've ever seen. Kristina Supler: I can't imagine. I just can't imagine what that must have been like and how that experience has obviously stayed with you. Hank, I'm curious. I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether you think schools should abolis

In this episode of Real Talk, KJK Student Defense Attorneys Susan Stone and Kristina Supler are joined by Carly Boyd, a domestic relations attorney.  In this episode, they talk about the effects of a recent Department of Justice Investigation at Case Western Reserve University will have on student life.  They discuss the biggest misperceptions students have around Title IX issues, why students don't report harassment cases in both Greek organizations and Sports Teams, and what triggers most harassment cases. Show Notes: (04:31)  Biggest Misperceptions Students Have with TitleIX and Other Issues (05:28)  The Reaction to the DOJ Sexual Conduct Investigation at Case University (08:41)  Why More Students Don’t Come Forward (11:32)  Why Athletes Don’t Report Harassment (14:08)  What Lies at the Heart of Most Harassment Claims (15:32)  Is Bystander Intervention Training Effective? (16:46)  Carly’s Advice for Students this New Academic Year Transcript: Susan Stone: So Kristina, last week we just received a copy of the resolution agreement between the federal government and Case Western Reserve University. And for our listeners out there, Case is right in our backyard. It's where I went to law school. And apparently the Department of Justice conducted an investigation of the university's response to reports of claims by student on student and employee on student sexual harassment between the years of 2017 and 18, 20 and 21. So right smack in the pandemic. There were a lot of interviews were conducted with a whole host of administrators. And in particular, I couldn't help but notice there was a lot of interviews and roundtables that were facilitated with Interfraternity Council and the Women's Health Center and a lot of Greek organizations. Kristina Supler: Yeah, it was really interesting report to read, Susan. And I was surprised to see the report come out. I think a real upside to this is that Case is committed to strengthening its strength. It's training in response to programs associated with reports of sexual assault or harassment.  Susan Stone: Exactly, because the Case is actually rolling out it's a whole entire program called It's on CWRU, which is a violence prevention campaign. And it'll be interesting to see how that impacts Greek culture and hazing in general.  Kristina Supler: There's a lot of new obligations in that resolution agreement that the university is committed to. But also that fall on members of Greek life and,for example, sororities and fraternities have to disclose to the chapter when there's internal investigations of sexual misconduct. There's new operating protocols. And I'm really curious to hear more about how this is going to play out on campus, day to day realities. Susan Stone: We are so lucky because our very own Carly Boyd, our partner, might have some inside scoop.  Kristina Supler: Welcome Carly. We're pleased to be joined by Carly Boyd. She's a skilled domestic relations attorney who has been working in that field for over a decade and she's in the firms here at KJK family law practice group. And Carly, you might be thinking, why are you having a domestic relations attorney on this podcast. But Carly is actually a former advisor to the Alpha Gamma Delta sorority at Case Western Reserve.  And so she's here today to just talk with us about this resolution agreement and looking to the future, what it means for Greek life. So welcome, Carly.  Carly Boyd: Welcome, Ladies. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here and talk about this.  Susan Stone: Yeah. Carly, just tell us to start, what do you do or what did you do? Because I know you just stepped down in July for, and can I call the Alpha Gamma Delta the Alpha Gams? Is that correct?  Carly Boyd: Yeah, that's Okay. I was their chapter wellness advisor from 2018 to just this past summer. Case Western just added Alpha Gam in 2018. It was a new chapter for them, which was really exciting. Just, like Susan and I went to Case Western for law school and I was really excited to combine my passion for Alpha Gam at Case.  And so in a sorority and a fraternity, they have a main chapter advisor. And then there was a bunch of different ones to help with the different directors. So I was there to assist with the director as they needed me. The chapter wellness kind of focuses on membership on activities and really just being there for retention of members was where I was at. They didn't need me all the time, but there was issues I could be there as a guidance and as a true advisor for them. Kristina Supler: So you were really, in the trenches having contact with the students. I'm curious to hear, Carly, based on your experience working with the students, what do you see as the biggest, misperception or misunderstanding among students about issues like Title IX or maybe hazing and other student conduct issues? Carly Boyd: Yeah, I think, when it comes to the Greek life and the misperceptions and what people think of, it's all bad. It's all hazing, and it's all drinking. It's all, Just horrible stories that come out of the Greek life. And I think there's a balance between there's a really good of Greek life, benefits. When it comes to Title IX, I think people mainly look to like men and women's sports or inequality in that way. I don't know if people outside of your practice, understand the larger implications of what Title IX means on a campus and that it goes down into sexual harassment and misconduct and on those deeper levels. when I was thinking about this, I do believe just the idea of a Title IX investigation, do people understand how. What that really means in a detail of what they were looking into.  Susan Stone: When you read the resolution agreement, what are your impressions? Carly Boyd: I'm surprised that these things weren't happening already. It was my first thought. Really? I just, I think of this day and age of just trainings and so many things that we have to do as professionals. That I'm surprised that just certain annual trainings and reports weren't happening already. And I do believe that my experience with my chapters, they were doing those things that were very on top of providing resources, mandatory trainings. And so maybe I was just surprised that wasn't on a higher level happening at the university. I'm glad  Susan Stone: to see that. We don't know. I happen to believe that it probably was happening. But we don't know all the backstory. We're only looking at the resolution agreement.  Kristina Supler: Yeah, Carly, I'm interested to hear, since you seem to have some surprise when you read this, in some ways this is a whole bunch of nothing. Shouldn't, wasn't this already going on? What do you see realistically to be in terms of likely impact on Greek life, starting this academic year?  Carly Boyd: I hope there's a big impact and implication and how people feel in the Greek community. I hope they feel protected and heard through all these things. I don't know if there'll be a change in the actual work that needs to be done. If they were already doing their local chapters, we're already requiring annual trainings. The Navy doesn't change their day today. For, my chapter, you had to do certain trainings for the whole chapter to be in good standing and you had a report in it. And that's been like that for years internationally. Isn't that? Wasn't just a case Western thing. So I would hope that on a day today. The chapters are used to when you get new members, you educate them, you're doing these regular trainings. If they weren't, I'm looking forward to seeing how that could be implemented and that it's a positive effect in the community. Just because you do these trainings, though, are the members actually feeling like they're doing something good? Just because we all do these trainings and everyone has to go through it to check a box. Are people actually going and hearing it and feeling protected and safe because of those trainings. And so that's what I look forward to seeing is what is the impact of these trainings.  Susan Stone: From our perspective, and Kristina, correct me if you're wrong, we want there to be a culture of reporting. We want, yeah, We want students to come forward. I don't know, Carly, if you've had a chance to look at the complaint against Northwestern and what was going on with the team there, the football team, I believe. Kristina Supler: And swimming. And it's. As they're digging deeper, far wider spread than initially suspected, and according to the news, right?  Susan Stone: And it's not just sexual assault. It's bullying. It's harassment of every kind. And as attorneys who represent students, we want to hear from those parents. We want to hear from those students. We want to be proactive. So we're hoping that more resolution agreements that lead to more training will lead to a culture of people feeling more comfortable to come forward. What are your thoughts on that? I Carly Boyd: think that's great. If people can come forward, But I think it's if I come forward, what's, what do people do with that information? If I don't believe a university or a team or Greek life will actually do anything with my complaint, why am I going to come forward?  And I think that's the biggest part is, I think the negative view of Greek life is this hazing aspect. You have to be tough, you're hazed, that's just normal. Maybe your parents were in Greek life, your dad went through it, so you just deal with it because that's the culture. And I think that's the dangerous part of Greek life, is if I say something am I going to be looked at as weak or am I going to be kicked out? Am I going to be isolated? And maybe I'm at a different college, I'm out of state. I don't know anybody. And this was going to be my community. If I speak up what happens, especially if no one listens. So I'd love, the resolutions, I like the transparency. I like that people can report. But then looking to the institutions to actually act on what

In this episode of Real Talk, KJK Student Defense Attorneys Susan Stone and Kristina Supler talk about when and how parents should talk to their college bound kids about drugs and alcohol, practical advice about drugs on campus, and tips on how parents can better monitor their child’s academics while on campus. Show Notes: (01:15)  When should parents talk to their kids about drugs and alcohol (03:57)  Tips to help parents have conversations with their kids about drugs and alcohol (04:31)  Borrowing another students medication and Fentanyl (05:11)  Dangers of mixing alcohol with medication (07:05)  Do you know the campus culture your student is going to be in? (08:34)  How to tell if your child is doing well in their classes (09:06)  Why parents need to get a FERPA (10:27)  Is your child a good fit for college?  Are they ready for college? (12:02)  The Red Zone:  Is your child at risk? Transcript: Susan Stone: I love having guests and actually I do too. I know I love talking to our guests. But sometimes I feel like our listeners miss out on what makes us. And that's just the two of us talking to other.  Kristina Supler: I have fun talking to you. And I think that we often,We have such different and unique life experiences and together I think we just have, interesting insights. Susan Stone: So you ready to talk? Let's talk. Okay. What are we talking about? I wanna talk about school starting. Kids are going off to college. Let's have a real conversation. What parents should say to their students about drugs and alcohol.  Kristina Supler: Let's. I think it's a good time of year for us to have this conversation because families are busy planning for the future. And sometimes that's when you just overlook these sort of foundational building block conversations with your kids. Susan Stone: I think the best place to start is really being honest with yourself where your student is with regard to their relationship with drugs and alcohol in high school. So for example, some kids, and I don't wanna label them, but some kids are not using drugs or drinking alcohol. They're just not.  Kristina Supler: Oh, absolutely. I think sometimes when there's discussion about these issues, it's easy to paint with a broad brush and say all high schoolers are partying and drinking and using drugs and having sex and engaging in everything over the top. But that's not always true.  Susan Stone: That's not true. So for those students, there's gotta be one conversation about, look, you're going to college, you're obviously gonna be exposed to this. You probably have already made choices that are good choices. Keep up the good work.  Kristina Supler: This makes me think also about being realistic. We say this a lot, but it's true. Be realistic about who your child is for better and for worse. In terms of how likely are they to succumb to peer pressure? Are they, is your child of the personality type of like more is always better? Or do you have a child who's more reserved and maybe shy and unlikely to jump into social situations.  Susan Stone: And anybody can be in a social situation and decide to make a choice to have a drink or experiment with something. I, and again, I hate the idea of labeling students, but anybody at any time can make a choice that doesn't turn out to end well.  Kristina Supler: I'm imagining some of our listeners saying, okay ladies, sure. You are assuming that parents have accurate insight into, how their children behave socially and maybe not all parents do, right? I agree. Agree. I mean, I, I,I think it would be, it would actually be foolish for us to assume that we know everything our own kids are doing. But I think you still know fundamentally who your child is in terms of tolerance  Susan Stone: and things like that. I agree. And I've also heard stories of students who were big partier in high school, got to college and really grew up and buckled down. So the reverse can be true. Just because you have a big partier in high school does not mean you're gonna have a partier in college. And just because you have a kid who doesn't party in high school doesn't mean that they're gonna stay that way in college. So I think the conversations must be had. So let's just highlight some of our favorite tips for parents.  Kristina Supler: I think. first of all, when talking to your kids about drugs and alcohol in college, it's just important to have a conversation about how there's more danger out there. And not to be fatalistic about what's out there in the world. But in this day and age, things are being recorded. The danger of drugs, it's so much more intense than it ever used to be.  Susan Stone: I'll give you an example. Fentanyl. Yeah, that was not a problem when I went to college. Did that in, was that on your campus?  Kristina Supler: No. Oh gosh, no. No.  Susan Stone: So we do know that there, every year there are students who borrow a Friend's a. A D H D medicine, for example, and the Adderall. The Adderall. And it's laced with fentanyl. It's really important to talk to your students that you are never, ever to use anybody's prescription drugs. If they need a prescription drug, they have to see a doctor and get their own prescription drug. That to me, is a rule that you just have to pound in your student's head. Please don't ever borrow anybody's drugs.  Kristina Supler: I'm also thinking about, we've had so many cases where, the students involved were experiencing some form of depression or anxiety and just navigating mental health issues. And in this day and age, it's fairly well known, but you can't assume everyone knows, mixing those prescription medications with alcohol can have really dangerous consequences.  Susan Stone: including feeling more depressed. Because alcohol is a depressant. So I think it's very important if you know your student is on various medications, to maybe even have a conversation with your student's doctor and get the facts straight. What will happen? Does it reduce the effectiveness of the medication? Does it increase depression? Education is the key there and a conversation about it is the key. Can we just talk about binge drinking now? That was around when I went to college.  Kristina Supler: Yes, indeed. Changed there and it sure is still here to stay, unfortunately. But I think that,with binge drinking, again, this idea of the hookup and everything that happens when students quote unquote party. We're just in a different day and age now. And some of that, I think there's many students out there who recognize that, but there's also many who don't.  Susan Stone: I'll tell you the difference that is new. I don't remember people planning on drinking so much that they became blackout or brownout drunk. That language of being blackout, brownout, gray out, that was not part of my college language.  Kristina Supler: When I was in school. I mean, I definitely had friends who talked about oh, I was so blacked out last night. But I don't remember anyone. going out with the goal of becoming blacked out. I, that's definitely, I don't know, I guess something that's quote unquote newer. I don't know. It's certainly not anything I experienced in college. The other thing that I'm thinking about though, as we're having this discussion is just the importance of being aware of the campus culture for the school where your child picked up. I agree. not all schools are alike.  Susan Stone: Some schools are big drug schools. Some schools are big drinking schools. Some schools don't have the same level of party atmosphere. And by the way, you can send your kid to the biggest party school. But that doesn't mean that they're gonna have that kind of friend group too.  Kristina Supler: Absolutely. Because if you think about it, also, many of the schools where, perhaps they're in cities, but not even necessarily if there's just more access to interesting things in the community. There's more for students to do other than party. I Susan Stone: agree. They're busier. There's more cultural outlets, more athletic outlets, more restaurants. I know as I'm looking at schools for my rising senior. It's very important for her to be in a city where there's great food. She's quite the foodie.  Kristina Supler: Amen.  Susan Stone: So let's talk about school.  Kristina Supler: academic consequences, right? Yeah.  Susan Stone: And the red flags for parents. You send Johnny, or Janie, or Barry, whatever name you have for your kid off to school. How do you know if they're drinking too much? You're not there.  Kristina Supler: Yeah. That's such a. You're right, you're not there, so you don't know. But I still think that as parents, I mean it with mothers or fathers in your gut, you know your kid. And we often have that sense, could something be off? So if you're calling your kid, texting your child and you're just not hearing back until you 2, 2, 3, you're asking them how's your economics class? And they don't really have anything terribly substantive to say. You think, gee, are you really going to class? What's going on here?  Susan Stone: Look at the grades.  Kristina Supler: Oh, that. I think one of the most important things that we should encourage our listeners out there to be on top of parents of college students, make sure you get assigned FERPA release. Otherwise you can wear your little heart out, call the school a gazillion times. You're not gonna get any information.  Susan Stone: And you still won't get information. Remember, this is college. So we do every year have parents who call us and say, why didn't the RA tell me that my student is drinking too much? That call is not gonna happen. Kristina Supler: Those are some of the, I think most difficult calls we get is they cry for help from parents after sometimes it's too late. And the anxiety and the anger, like, how could no one tell me? And we have to be the cold callous lawyers and say, legally, the school wasn't required to tell you anything. And every year we g

In this episode of Real Talk, KJK Student Defense Attorneys Susan Stone and Kristina Supler are joined by Samantha Pierce, CEO of Renegade Soul.  In this episode, they talk about topics relating to health and fitness.  They discuss why physical fitness is mroe than just lifting weights, how grief recovery impacts our health and physical fitness, ways we can plant seeds to effect someone's trajectory change. Show Notes: (02:57) How Samantha is Much More than a Personal Trainer (04:11)  Sam’s Plan to Build Confidence (06:33)  Shut Negative Self-Talk Down (08:10)  What Age Should Kids Start Exercising (10:08)  What Parents can do to Get Their Kids Exercising (13:44)  Body Dysmorphia: What We Can Do (17:06)  When to Tell If You Should Cut Back on Indulgences (19:13)  Why We Numb Ourselves with Food, Alcohol, Sex, etc (20:56)  Why Numbing Doesn’t Work (21:58)  Grief Training:  Why We Numb Ourselves (25:20)  How Tragic Loss Changed Samantha’s Trajectory (28:11)  How Grief Recovery Impacts Our Health Physical Fitness (31:14)  Alarming Stats with Grief Recovery and Prison Populations (34:22)  How Anything Can Plant the Seeds of Trajectory Change (36:34)  Reframing How You View a Bad Situation Into Something Positive Transcript: Susan Stone: We are going to talk a little bit about exercise and wellness and the benefits that you might not think you're getting when you get up and go to the gym in the morning. And I know that. A lot of our podcast, Kristina, is dedicated to mental health as it pertains to our clients. And just that when you find yourself in crisis, you get stuck. You think it's gonna last forever, whatever you're going on.  Kristina Supler: And some, sometimes it lasts longer than others, but I think today we are here to talk about how to get unstuck or to use the phrase of our esteemed guest effectuate a trajectory change.  Susan Stone: You know, when we learned about that phrase, I sound like my 17 year old mic drop trajectory change. Yeah, we love that phrase. Oh my gosh, I wish I had coined it. Because no matter what's happening in your life, no matter how dark things seem, Until it's over, you can do a trajectory change. And I'm really excited about this guest because she's gonna teach everyone out there who's listening to this podcast how they can have a trajectory change no matter what the circumstances. So with that, Given Invi an intro.  Kristina Supler: Sure. So today we are pleased to be joined by Samantha Pierce, who is the C E O and founder of Renegade Soul. Sam is a master's level social worker, a certified personal trainer, and a grief recovery specialist. With her background in social work, she really brings a holistic approach to her personal training. Sam designed Renegade to take care of black women of childbearing age in particular, and today she works with child, clients from all different backgrounds, ages, shapes, and sizes. And I have to add, I'm pleased to note that I am one of Sam's Renegades.  Susan Stone: You are. You have joined the Renegade Supler.  Kristina Supler: So happy to have done so. So Sam, welcome to.  Samantha Pierce: Thank you. Thank you. It's such a pleasure to be here with you ladies.  Susan Stone: So Sam, you are so much more than about just squatting and pushups. You, isn't that the truth? You are about trajectory change. So could you tell everybody about how you are so much more than just a personal trainer in what you do and what you bring to those clients? It's really incredible. It is.  Samantha Pierce: It's a loaded question, really. When people ask me what do I do, I just look at them like, well, where do you want me to start? Okay. So personal training is what I wake up in the morning and head out the door to do. But when you said trajectory change, the reason that I say that is because your life trajectory is something that we often study in social work. Especially when you get a person in front of you and then you just can't look at the person in front of you. You gotta look at their past and their parents' past and all those different pasts that sets them on this trajectory. But we are actually really in control. So when I'm at the gym with personal client, with personal training clients, a lot of times they come to me because they wanna lose weight. Sure. Literally, they have no idea that I have a whole different plan for them, right? Yeah. You gonna drop this weight, but we gonna work on, we gonna work on that gut that you're trying to lose. We're gonna, build arms and muscles and legs and all of that. We are also gonna build confidence. are going to work on where you are in your soul spiritually. Like you, you just never know what you're gonna walk into in the gym. On at any given time, on any given day.  Susan Stone: How do you do that?  how do you I think that  Samantha Pierce: I'm very open as a person and the conversation. I'm never, I am never afraid of a conversation. So I don't veer away from any conversation. Someone says, Tim, I really need to ask you this. Go right ahead. Because I'm an open book. But I think that is just where my life trajectory has me. That I've gone through a lot of hard things in my life. And instead of being quiet about it, I'm very verbal about it. I'm very open about it. And I understand, it might be too soon to even say this, but I'm just gonna say it. I understand God's plan.  That a lot of times things happen, but it is not, to put you in a bad place, but it's to put the next person in a better place because, oh, you're ready to come and master this thing. You're getting ready to move this mountain. So that you can teach the next person how to move that mountain. And there are people that are just watching you and they don't even need you to teach them to move, how to move the mountain. They're watching you do it, and they're already motivated. So things happen for a reason and sometimes it has nothing to do with you. So when we talk about getting into the gym and being able to talk to different people about different things and putting them on. Programs that will not only change their body, but also change their mind. That comes very natural to me, especially as a, I'm a I, I call myself a recovering community organizer and a social worker, so that's what I am, and then I use all of that energy and personal training.  Susan Stone: Sometimes I go to the gym and I have all this internal negative talk. My thighs look like this. My stomach looks like that. I'm getting old. Do you ever have that internal negative self-talk?  Kristina Supler: Oh my gosh. Every day I.  Samantha Pierce: Every day. I think I, yeah,  Kristina Supler: it's and it's one of those things where you feel frustrated at times when you put in all this work or at least what you believe to be hard works 'cause it isn't always right. and don't see results. And then that affects your mind, your spirit and it can continue on through your day. So it's something I've been working on personally is how to, Hold onto those endorphins and feeling good when I leave the gym and carry that through my day and not get bogged down in negative self-talk. Samantha Pierce: in Renegade land you aren't even allowed to come in with negative self-talk. Nope.  Susan Stone: But how do you know Sam, if it's going on the inside?  Samantha Pierce: How do you check that?  Well, you know what, it comes, it always comes out. If you're thinking it, it comes out. if a client says, I can't do that, that's automatically self negative, self-taught. And so before a client even comes into the gym, when they sign up, I send a welcome email and I send this link to a video that I did about I am statements and how careful you have to be with your I Am statements. And Kristina, I don't know if you watched that video or not, but it talked about, how God referred to himself as I am. And so anything that you say after I am is invoking the power of God himself. And in fact, if you say something negative, you might be just using his name in va. So you gotta be careful what you say behind I am. Because when people say I can't do a thing, or I'm fat, or I feel fat, or my stomach is that, and it's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. We gonna re we gonna rephrase that altogether. So I am fat, meaning I am at the gym changing how I look because I want it to.  Kristina Supler: Love that I do too. Sam, let's roll it back to basics. As many of our audience listeners are parents who are raising children of all different ages. So at, for our parents out there who are listening who maybe have a child who seems to be a little stuck, particularly as we've gone through Covid these past couple years, what should parents know about the age at which children should begin exercising? Samantha Pierce: oh, that's easy. So exercising should begin. act actually exercising does begin at crawling. they're scooting, right? They're trying to move their bodies, trying to move their legs, move their hands a little bit. That's exercise. And as soon as they start walking, they take that first step and boom, they take off. You gotta chase them all around the house. 'cause now they know how to walk. I would say to cultivate that energy from that moment on, get them out into the park. They love that stuff. Anyway. They're gonna do whatever you wanna do anyway. And so I remember when my kids were younger that we would go into the mall when it's cold outside. So we are in Oh, wonderful. Weathered Cleveland. And so we get mostly cold weather and then three months of hot weather, right? So during the cold weather, we used to take our kids to the mall and we would just let them walk and just, that's just a way of moving your body a little bit. But there, it's never too soon to start your children on exercise. And exercise looks different for everybody and it doesn't have to be regimented like that. So when we think, oh, I gotta do my cardio, some people think, oh, I have to be on the treadmill, sweating my, my, my hair out in order to

In this episode of Real Talk, KJK Student Defense Attorneys Susan Stone and Kristina Supler are joined by Becca Gruenspan of RG Adoption Consulting.  In this episode, topics include the myths around adoption, how adoptive parents can improve their chances of a successful adoption, and the competing emotions between birth parents, adoptive parents, and the adopted child. Links: RG Adoption Consulting: https://rgadoptionconsulting.com/ Show Notes: (02:40)  How One Adoption Lead to a Purpose-Filled Mission (06:39)  Why Becca focuses on domestic adoptions (08:47)  Greatest Fear: Will the Birth Mother Show Up Again? (11:03)  Adoption Roadmap: the Proprietary Process to Help Adopting Parents (13:54)  Details Matter:  What is Important to the Birth Mother (15:16)  How RG Adoptive Consulting Helps Improve the Chances of Success (17:36)  What Some of the Difficult Obstacles are for Adoptive Parents (19:31)  Addiction:  How Babies Fare When Born Addicted to Drugs (21:26)  Competing Emotions:  What Birth Parents and Adoptive Parents Feel (24:43)  What Adoptive Children Struggle with Emotionally Transcript: Susan Stone: We're gonna talk about adoption today. And the reason we're gonna talk about adoption is that in our special education practice, we've represented a number of families of adopted kids, and the unique issues that children or students who are adopted had such as, attachment issues.  Kristina Supler: I'm really excited about today's episode. Because Susan Adoption's something that, you and I have no direct personal experience with. But it's an issue that comes up so often in our cases. And we regularly see the issues that adopted children's often experience in schools. And then the issues that the PA parents and families navigate through as well. Susan Stone: I agree. And at this point I think I've worked on close to 50 to a hundred cases where there has been a student with an issue that is direct, directly related to the fact of the adoption status. But again, by the time you come to our office, it's because there is a need or a crisis or an issue that needs to be worked out. I hate the fact that I never get to hear the success stories.  Kristina Supler: I know. I'm excited for today's guests to, to learn more about the adoption process, some of the challenges, but then also the good things and the success. Because you're right, Susan, we don't often hear about that so  Susan Stone: We never, I just wanna remind you, remember I always say we only get to see the dark side of life sometimes. It's great to see when things go swimmingly well.  Kristina Supler: With that, let's welcome our guest today. We are joined by Rebecca Gruenspan. And Becky is a single mom who herself has gone through open adoption. She founded RG Adoption Consulting shortly after adopting her son in 2011. And we're so happy to have you with us today. Susan Stone: And do you go by Becky, Rebecca.  Becca Gruenspan: Becca.  Susan Stone: Thank you. Okay,  Kristina Supler: Becca, tell us a little bit about your role as the Founder and CEO of RG Adoption Consulting. Becca Gruenspan: Thanks for having me today. I started my business, we're about to be celebrating our 10 year anniversary. Um, wow.  Susan Stone: A decade.  Becca Gruenspan: Yes, we're very excited. I started it two years after I adopted my son as a single woman, at the time who had gone through years of infertility and just really knew I was meant to be a mom. And I really wanted to be a mom. So I sought out first on the fertility path. And after that I failed, for lack of a better word. I thought about adoption. But it really scared me probably for all the reasons you said you don't hear the good side. I was scared 'cause that was all I knew to, as well as all the stories I put into my head about what it meant to have to, to adopt. And then I was put in touch with, and it was also very overwhelming having gone through so much loss already. And long story short, I was put in touch with an adoption consultant. And I was told that this consultant was gonna hold my hand, tell me what to do, and how to do it and where to go and what to read and what not to read. And I was like, okay, I could use an easy button I'm around about now. And nine months to the day that I first called my consultant, I had my son in my arms.  Susan Stone: So it was a great experience using a consultant. Correct?  Becca Gruenspan: It was. Interestingly, I was told because I was in my forties and single and Jewish, that it was gonna be really hard for me. But voila, nine months later, I adopted. So it was a very, great experience. Also scary. And I knew that, after I adopted my son, I wanted to help other people and I became this magnet to people who wanted to adopt. And I was very, passionate about the fact that they really needed help going through this. Because you don't know what you don't know. Sure. Long short, two years later, I became an a consultant myself. And I thought, gosh, I'm putting all this money into my consultant that I use Pocket. I think I can do this now. I. and so that's when I started my business.  Susan Stone: Kristina. I had the privilege of actually going to yoga and having dinner with Becca. And I learned that Becca's not alone in this venture. How many people work for your business?  Becca Gruenspan: Yeah, I think there, my team is seven or eight people right now. And we are all across the country. And we only work with the hopeful adoptive parent. We do not work with the birth mom or expectant mom. So that's really a distinct, a distinction between an adoption consultant and other entities such as a facilitator or an adoption agency. We are not.  Susan Stone: So you are hired by the potential parents. And I just for clarification purposes, you only work on domestic, not international adoptions. Am I Correct?  Becca Gruenspan: You are correct.  Kristina Supler: Tell us why. But what's the difference between the two. Or why did you choose to just focus on domestic?  Becca Gruenspan: I can't even talk to you that much about the difference between the two because there is a big difference. And so it's like you go down one path or the other, as well as like foster to adopt. That's a whole nother path as well. Each path has its own nuances, its own clearances, its own licensing. And it's done. Each is done very differently and is its own separate path, even though the end result is being an adoptive parent. So I didn't know anything much about, international. I know just enough about all three routes that I just mentioned to talk about the pros and cons of each. But not enough to really guide someone through those, those paths.  Susan Stone: Certainly if you chose domestic and that's what your business is focused on. Can you tell us what the benefits are of a domestic adoption?  Becca Gruenspan: Sure. I think the biggest benefit is the fact that most domestic adoptions now are open on some level. Now that automatically scares people. And people have all sorts of questions about, is that a good thing? Aren't you scared that your child is gonna want to go back? Is, aren't you scared that someone's gonna show up at your doorstep? And the fact of the matter is 20 years ago, most adoptions were closed. And what that does is create a sense of fantasy in a child's mind about where they came from and who they are instead of a reality and an openness about. Everybody wants to know who they are and where they came from, right? Your identity is such a huge part. It's everything, of who you are. And so by able, by being able to have an open adoption, you can know health history, you can have a relationship with the first mom or the birth mom and the birth dad. You can see what kind of life they have.  So a child is no longer needing to live in this fantasy world of where they came from, who they are, what other people look like them. There's so much good about a healthy, open adoption relationship. And that doesn't mean it doesn't come with some complications. Sometimes it does. And healthy boundaries need to be put in place. It's Cousins, right? Having, you don't, you're not best friends with all of your cousins in your extended family. But you learn how to live together and navigate the relationship. And some are great and super, super close. And some are a little bit more difficult and you have to, manage that. Kristina Supler: Well, it's interesting to hear you talk about the benefits of open adoption, but also the importance of boundaries. Because I know that sometimes, there's a fear. if we do an adult, an open adoption, the birth mom's gonna come back and haunt us or try to take the child back. Is  Susan Stone: Well Becca just mentioned it. People think they're gonna show up at the door.  Kristina Supler: How realistic, of course there's always extremes. But in general, is that. Just a myth that's taken hold? Or is it something that rarely happens or can you talk a little more about that?  Becca Gruenspan: It is absolutely a myth. It really, I don't. I don't even think I know one situation where that's happened. The laws  Kristina Supler: that's really a powerful piece of information there. Yeah. That you just shared with us.  Becca Gruenspan: The laws are in place to protect everyone really. And every state, and this is the confusing part, every state has its own set of laws around when a mother can terminate her rights, like at what point after birth can a mom terminate her rights as a parent. And at what point It's irrevocable. So every state has different laws. So for instance, we tend to work in states where an expectant mom can sign her rights away can terminate her parental rights between 24 to 72 hours and then it's irrevocable. You cannot change your mind by law. Unless you can prove that it, they were made to sign under duress or fraud. Susan Stone: You mean 22 to 72 hours? I wanna clarify after birth.  Becca Gruenspan: I'm sorry, ask me that again.  Susan Stone: You said 22 4 to 72

In this episode of Real Talk, KJK Student Defense Attorneys Susan Stone and Kristina Supler are joined by Mark Coffin, the owner and President of Academy Custom Test Prep.  In this episode, they talk about the sweep changes coming to the SAT.  Topics include what big changes are coming to the SAT, how colleges are responding to those changes, and what strategies students should consider when preparing for either the SAT or ACT. Links: Academy Custom Test Prep:  https://academycustomtestprep.com/ Show Notes: (01:45)  What are the Big Changes to SAT in 2024 (04:49)  How will the SAT be different? (06:58)  Some Key Differences Between the SAT and ACT (07:34)  What the new SAT Focuses on with Reading and Grammar (09:52)  The Mysterious Logic Behind Taking the SAT Online (12:08)  The Biggest Change to Taking the SAT (12:54)  Cheating: Varsity Blues Scandal Explained (14:10)  All Scores are Not Created Equal (14:33)  Adaptive Tests:  Are They Equal? (17:08)  Will Colleges Know if You Got a Hard or Easy Test? (18:15)  Will the new SAT be of Any Value? (18:39)  The Response from ACT (19:55)  Do Colleges Prefer SAT over the ACT? (21:37)  Should Students Go with the ACT? (22:43)  A Simple Strategy Students Can Use to Prepare for the SAT (24:40)  How Colleges Are Responding to the SAT Changes (26:33)  Tutoring versus Self-Prep:  What works better? Susan Stone: Kristina, is this the first time we're recording a podcast and we're not together?  Kristina Supler: It is and it feels weird. I feel so alone.  Susan Stone: I was gonna say, I feel so disconnected from you. This is so weird everyone. You know that we're always attached at the hip, but I'm in New York and I.  Kristina Supler: I'm in our studio in Cleveland, Ohio, and, we're gonna do this with technology today, and I think we're gonna be talking about technology a lot today. Susan, what are we talking about today?  Susan Stone: Oh my gosh. We're gonna talk about the changes to the SAT because there's a lot happening and I'm gonna also wanna delve into, is the ACT gonna do the same thing, it's. The time of year where everybody's trying to get their last scores in before college applications go out. So good time for this talk. And, with that, why don't you introduce our guest?  Kristina Supler: Sure. We are joined today by Mark Coffin. Mark's the proud owner of Academy Custom Test Prep. ACT P helps students with the ACT , SAT, P-SAT and GRE tests, as well as common app essays and other college admissions essays. So Mark, thanks for joining us today.  Susan Stone: Happy to be here.  So Mark, big changes are coming to the SAT in 2024. Yeah. Complete. Describe the dun da. So can you describe the changes?  Mark Coffin: Sure. It's a complete revamp. The, college board who, runs both the P-SAT and SAT testing, they make up the tests and score 'em and all that. They made major changes to the SAT in 2016. So this isn't a long time for them to have had this new test. They made it then much closer to the ACT. Now effective with the P-SAT. This fall they're given traditionally in the high schools to juniors, sophomores, and juniors in October of each year. So this fall, both sophomores and juniors will take the new version of the P-SAT, which will be very much like the new version of the SAT. The first new SAT will be in March of 24. So current juniors who pretty much have already taken some of these tests, have taken the old s a, the current SAT. The new one will be for current sophomores and younger kids starting next March. Now a current sophomore could in fact take SAT tests this fall. There are, four testing dates. And take the current version on paper. But starting with March, it's going to be a very different format, for a number of reasons. Number one, the test is gonna be completely online. So there'll be no printed tests. Students will take it at testing centers, not at home, designated as they do now, but they can use their own computers or they, a computer will be provided when they go in and get ready for the test and start, their computer will basically be frozen. So they can't use it for research or texting or anything else they might want. And they download through a link, the new SAT test. And so they will have their own test on their machine or on a provided machine that's online and everything must be done online. The test will be shorter. It's currently a little over three hours. It's gonna be two hours. They're shortening it by combining some of the sections and reduce, just simply reducing the number of questions. The current SAT has a reading section. And a writing or grammar section. And those will now be, those are now separate sections. You finish one and then go on when the time's up to the next one. And then it current one has two math sections. One without a calculator. You can't use a calculator. And then one with a calculator. And again, you do the non calculator. You finish when the time's up. You go on to the next one.  Susan Stone: Mark. I just wanna interrupt, how did they know whether you have a calculator or a non calculator? Do the proctors manage that? Yeah, the proctors.  Mark Coffin: The proctors are walking around and they see you with a calculator. you're kicked out. so  Kristina Supler: it sounds like it's almost, it's a really different test.  Mark Coffin: It's different in a lot of other ways too. One hugely important way, which I'll get to after I've covered the more, the simpler questions. So the current two sections that are reading and grammar, they call it writing and language, are gonna be combined into one section so you don't finish big. That's a big, that's a big change. That's a big change. In the, reading part, in the current test, you generally have around 11 paragraphs to read, eight to 11, and then you answer 10 or 11 questions about each paragraph. So you have to be not only a perceptive reader, but a pretty quick reader because I'll give you a lot of time. The current, the new test will reduce this, I think, to four passages for the reading with one question and just be a paragraph with only one question per paragraph. The, reasoning is that students will have more time to absorb the material and answer one sort of more broader question about the point of the paragraph so they have more time to ponder it in effect.  Susan Stone: Mark,  Kristina Supler: is that easier?  Yeah, it sounds like they're in some ways watering the test down. Am I wrong?  Mark Coffin: The questions are not easy. I don't think it's easier. It's easier in the time sense. You're not hurried to read a paragraph and answer 10 or 11 questions. Because you have to have pretty good recall to read a paragraph and then immediately go to the questions and remember 11 different answers. Now it'll be one answer. And I've taken a practice test. Khan Academy, which many people are familiar with, is Sure. An online practicing entity for basically the SAT. They now have a couple of these, new format practice tests. And I've taken one, the question's not, I'm not a junior in high school, so I may be somewhat better at taking these tests than some kids, but,it's a fairly difficult question, I thought for a junior. Susan Stone: Okay. So sorry to, they're taking  Kristina Supler: the time management pressure out of it, but the substance of the questions is still weighty.  Mark Coffin: Yes, I think so. The. Yeah, they're trying to give kids more time. The SAT compared to the ACT has never been a time crunch. The way the ACT is. The ACT is much more direct, and so there are many more questions in the same three hour period. For example, the math section in the ACT is 60 questions in 60 minutes. you gotta move. SAT was never that time crunch. But they're dropping it from three hours to two dramatically reducing the number of questions. The whole idea is to make it, an easier test, frankly.  Susan Stone: So let's go back. What are the other changes, cuz I wanna make sure we cover 'em all.  Mark Coffin: I told you they combined the two reading and grammar. Grammar will have much more emphasis on vocabulary. The SAT before they changed it in 2016, was much more of a vocabulary test than the then new SAT. They reduced the, you really had to study vocabulary if you took an SAT in 2005. Kristina Supler: so are we back to that? Are we back to studying vocabulary?  Mark Coffin: I think so, somewhat. The but they'll, there'll be more emphasis on vocabulary, not so much, you don't have to define words, but they will have a blank in a sentence and ask you which word best fills in that blank. So you don't have to know the definition, but you have to know pretty much the context of words, how they're used. And in some words will be absurd. You just wouldn't use 'em. It might be farmer, where the right word is horse. I'm using simplistic examples, but you would never put farmer in the, in that blank. So some of them will be obvious, but some won't be. It'll be difficult. So anyway, those are two of the changes. The, making the math all, maybe I didn't get to that. The math is now gonna be all with a calculator, fewer questions than the two previous sections. But you can use a calculator anywhere. And you don't bring a calculator. The calculator is on the screen. One of the big changes with this test going online is that you have to be adept at taking the test online. With a paper test going forwards and back, skipping a problem, but coming back to it later because you circled it on your paper. Those things are second nature to kids now. I'm much older than a junior in high school. I think many of these kids are much more adept at online testing than I am.  Kristina Supler: There's all sorts of online testing now, for sure. Yeah, I Susan Stone: know, but I would struggle because I remember that taking the SAT and seeing something that was challenging, saying, okay, I'm gonna come back, and I would just jot where to go back. But now you've got a manage and negotiate everything on t

Title: In this episode of Real Talk, KJK Student Defense Attorneys Susan Stone and Kristina Supler are joined by Dr. Lauren Streicher, a Clinical Professor of Obstetrics and Gynecology at Northwestern University’s medical school, and the founder and medical director of the Northwestern Medicine Center for Menopause and the Northwestern Medicine Center for  Sexual Health.  In this episode, they talk about if current contraceptive methods really prevent STIs, current edge products to make "safe sex" a reality, and misconceptions around current contraceptives. Show Notes: (02:20)  Getting Real about Failure Rates with Contraception (04:20)  Why Failures Rates are So High (06:14)  Why Condoms Don’t Prevent STI’s (07:28)  HPV Vaccine: Should College Students Get It? (08:44)  Protection During Oral Sex (09:36)  Introducing a New, Superior Woman-Controlled Contraception (13:08)  What Makes the New LUWI Superior (14:42)  Does the LUWI have Lubrication? (15:45) FDA Testing of the New LUWI (17:32)  Misconceptions Around Emergency Contraception (19:11)  Why the “Morning After” Pill Works for 5 Days (20:26)  Reproductive Rights and IUDs (21:53)  Why “The Pill” Can Fail (25:17)  Why the LUWI Will Be on College Campuses First (27:40)  Myth or Fact: Do You Gain Weight on “The Pill” (28:32)  Contraception and the Impact on Dating Apps Pull Quotes: Susan Stone: It has been approximately one year since the Dobbs opinion, and I'm still in shock. Are you?  Kristina Supler: I, it was interesting over the weekend reading news stories and it's like, wow, a year has passed and it it's wild, wild.  Susan Stone: And it's changing the election. It's changing culture. We are really reverting back and, so the topic today is more important than ever. We're gonna talk about contraception post Dobbs. And we're gonna hopefully unpack myths and make sure students know what they need to do to be safe out there. You know, last week we had a guest and we were talking about the health issues of transgender. We actually learned a new word larc. Remember that?  Kristina Supler: I do. And I'm. Certain that our guest today has more to say.  Susan Stone: I think she knows a larc is not a bird. It's a long acting reversible contraception. But today we have a repeat guest that we love to see.  Kristina Supler: Yes, today we are really happy to be joined again by Dr. Lauren Streicher. Welcome, Dr. Streicher. Welcome back. I should say welcome back.  Dr. Lauren Streicher is a clinical professor of Obstetrics and Gynecology at Northwestern University's Medical School. And she's the founder of Northwestern Medicine Center for Menopause and the Northwestern Medicine Center for Sexual Medicine. Dr. Streicher's, a medical correspondent for top rated news programs in Chicago and has been a guest on other national shows like the Oprah Winfrey Show, C N N, C B S. 2020 just to name a few. Dr. Streicher's also a bestselling author. She's written several books and she hosts the popular podcast called Dr. Streicher's Inside Information Podcast, Menopause, Midlife, and More. Welcome, Dr. Streicher. Dr. Lauren Streicher: it's a pleasure to be back.  Susan Stone: Anything new? What's different, on the horizon coming up? Birth control. Give us the landscape.  Dr. Lauren Streicher: Yeah. first, let me tell you that there, there are always new things and I'm gonna tell you about some very exciting new things. But I'm glad you started off with talking about larcs, L A R C, as you said, not l a r k, which is the bird. And this is actually not a new term. For us, new term for you, but we've been talking about long acting reversible contraception for a long time. And the reason is, is that we are in an era right now, which it is more important than ever to have reliable contraception. Because when we talk about contraception, we not only look at user, preference, but we look at failure rates. And we know that something that is not going to be controlled on a case by case basis is what's going to have the best rates of success.  So when we look at a long acting reversible contraception, that is something that is not, as we say, user dependent. These are contraceptions that we set and forget, and as we go through the list of options for college students to use, that is certainly high on the list when it comes to the most reliable. But before we get to the specific contraceptions, I just wanna kinda set the stage for why this is such an important conversation. Because please, absolutely, Dobbs, no question, but even before the Dobbs decision, when it became potentially life-threatening, you know, now it's, it's not just inconvenient or scary, it's, Life threatened to become pregnant. But beyond that, we know that women in college are very high risk for not only getting pregnant, but for getting a sexually transmitted infection. We're talking one in four women will contract a sexually transmitted infection. We know that most college women, about at least 70% are sexually active. And when I'm talking sexually active, I am talking penile vaginal intercourse. Because sexually active of course you mean many things. A lot of different things. But if we're talking about just the ability to get pregnant, we're looking at about 70% most people.  Susan Stone: Is that just because you're more fertile in your twenties?  Dr. Lauren Streicher: It's a combination of increased fertility. And it's a combination of complacency of not using contraception on a consistent basis or using it correctly. And that's one of the things that is really the theme of today, is I think many college women are very much aware of what's available to them. But just because they're using a contraception does not mean that they use it correctly. And in fact, if you look at statistics for unplanned pregnancies, roughly 50% of pregnancies are unplanned. And according to the Guttmacher Institute, 50% of those use some form of contraception in the month before. Now think about that. That's really wild. You know, so many people think that if someone gets pregnant it's because they were just complacent or they were lazy, or they, the worst is when people actually think that some people use abortion for contraception, which is simply not true. 50% of unplanned pregnancies are people who did use some form of contraception, but it failed. And some methods are more likely to fail than others.  And at the top of the list, quite frankly, are male condoms. I'm currently doing a study with the Kinsey Institute that I will tell you about with male condoms. And so I've been reading a lot about it and looking at these studies. And I was floored at the number of couples that even if they say, yeah, we use a condom, they don't use them properly and they have incomplete use of condom, meaning they're not using a condom from the start to the finish of sex. And the  Susan Stone: Question though, in terms of preventing sexually transmitted infections, Am I correct that the condom,  Kristina Supler: the condom was the best way  Susan Stone: or the only way? How else can you prevent an infection?  Dr. Lauren Streicher: Okay, so let's switch gears for a little bit and we're gonna switch from contraception to protection of STIs. So when we talk about STIs, the most common STI out there is human papillomavirus, right? Where women get human papillomavirus on the vulva. Do condoms protect their vulva? They do not. So when we look at condoms as protecting against STIs, it is one of the best methods that we have out there. But it is not the only method and it is not as protective as it needs to be.  Because it is going to protect against cervical, sexually transmitted infections. Gonorrhea, chlamydia. Things such as that. But it will not protect against herpes. It will not protect against H P V, and that's even if the condom is used properly. These studies, which completely, you know, just I was like blown away by is the number of men who do not use a condom from start to finish because of condom associated erection problems. Something we don't think about in young men, but certainly exists. They talk about,  Susan Stone: We've been hearing about it in a lot of our cases. Yeah. But I just want you to back up a little bit. sure. I know with the H P V, we now have a vaccine. Yes. We don't have a vaccine that I'm aware of for herpes. Correct. So what's, what's a gal to do?  Dr. Lauren Streicher: Okay. Well, first of all, let's circle back to the vaccine for a minute. I wish I could say that 100% of college age men and women have been vaccinated against hpv, but they have not. Some of them are also folks that were vaccinated earlier on so that they got the quadrivalent vaccine, meaning that it only protects against four subtypes of H P V as opposed to the newer vaccine, which prevents against nine subtypes. So even people that were vaccinated, depending on when they were vaccinated, may not have complete protection. But there's an awful lot of people that aren't protected. And quite frankly, a lot of times it's the guys that aren't protected. But to your point, herpes.  There is no vaccine and herpes is has nothing to do with intercourse. In many cases it's about oral sex. There's this idea that type one herpes is on the mouth and type two herpes is on the genitals. And we know that's not the case. You can have both type one and type two on the mouth or the genitals because of transference during oral sex. So how do you protect yourself? Let's, I mean, I'm sure all the parents are sitting out there and people are saying, okay, we'll get to it already. Yikes. how could you protect yourself, understand it, give us answers, short of stepping in a hefty bag or locking yourself in your dorm room and becoming abstinent, which is not gonna happen. So number one. There is a new product called Laurels, r o l a l S. Are you familiar with this one? We are, yes. Yeah. Laurels is a disposable latex panty, which is worn by a woman, and the purpose of laurels is to pr

In this episode, KJK Student Defense attorneys Susan Stone and Kristina Supler talk with Dr. Michelle Fourcier, a Professor of Pediatrics, Assistant Dean of Medicine at The Warren Alpert Medical School of Brown University.  Dr. Forcier specializes in gender, sexual and reproductive health.  In this episode, they talk about what all the terms of LGBTQ+ mean, how pediatricians work with both parents and children about gender identity, and resources for parents to learn more about this complicated issue. Links: PubMed Website Show Notes: (04:12) Understanding the Gender Terminology within LGBTQ+ (06:59)  How Does Type of Care Different from Heteronormative (09:27)  Assigned Gender versus Gender Identity: What is the Difference? (12:16)  Is the Child Just Playing With Identities?  Or Do We Need to Act? (15:02)  When Does a Physician Decide if Hormones are Required? (16:44)  Do We Want Puberty in Children to Happen Later? (18:11)  How Pediatricians Work With Children to Keep Them Safe (19:15)  What are the Side Effects of Hormones? (20:52)  Blockers: What Do They Do? (22:43)  Conversations with Parents Who Are Not on Board with Hormones or Blockers (24:45)  When Do Children Go Through Surgery? (25:32)  When Surgery for Minors may be Necessary (27:46)  What are LARCs?  How Do They Prevent STIs? (30:36)  Dual Method for Birth Control and STI prevention (31:46)  Consider This Thought If Your 14 Year Old Child is Sexually Active (34:19)  Resources for Parents to Learn More Transcript: Susan Stone: So everybody out there listening to this podcast know that my, this is Susan and my daughter got married this weekend, and I'm a little tired.  But  Kristina Supler: though you think everyone knows that. Everyone doesn't actually know that.  Susan Stone: I know, but I felt the need. This is Real Talk guys out there on listening land. I am exhausted. But I had to come into work today cuz they knew that we had, the books, the recording of this podcast. And we're gonna talk about pediatric health for the L G P. Lg, I told you I'm tired. BTQ Plus community and I, Kristina, I just wanna have a conversation about the health needs and not a political conversation.  Kristina Supler: Yeah. I'm really looking forward to today's episode because I think there's so muchto talk about and learn to have more real conversations about the issues versus some of the politicized language that has pushed people into corners and people have in many ways shut down and are not open to learning new information. Susan Stone: and I think we're just forgetting that we're still talking about kids. So why don't you kick off the guest so we can just launch in and talk about whatever the health needs are of the kids and guys, let's leave the politics out. Okay? For once.  Kristina Supler: Today we are really happy to be joined by Dr. Michelle Fourier, who is an associate professor of pediatrics and an assistant dean at the medical school at Brown University. And with extensive training and experience in adolescent health and sexual healthcare, she's dedicated her career to addressing the unique needs of the LGBTQ plus youth.  Susan Stone: That is the guest we needed for today's podcast, a Doctor.  Perfect.  Dr. Michelle Forcier: So let's jump in.  Susan Stone: Let's just jump in. Dr. Fourier, can you explain exactly what you do for that population? Dr. Michelle Forcier: I have been a pediatrician for about 25 plus years. And I've been providing gender, sex and reproductive justice care, basically across the lifespanfor this period of time. And it's been a pretty exciting, community, pretty wonderful and satisfying community to work for and to work with. And the way I look at providing care for the L G B T Q community is that it really is primary care. Basically gender and sexuality are part of human identity. And they're there before we leave the womb. There's a neat study about in utero masturbation, which is kind of cool. So we get started early and we are gendered and sexual persons, until we die. So if we look at gender and sexuality as being a ubiquitous part of the human experience, and we look at biology as absolutely diversity is a part of biology. It's one of the basic tenets of biology. Then we understand that both sex and gender are gonna be diverse experiences for a range of different people and folks. And my role has been to provide care for some of our most marginalized community members, which is the L B G T Q I A plus. Sometimes it's easier just to say rainbow population. I like that.  Kristina Supler: Before we dive in further, just to get some terminology nailed down for our listeners who maybe aren't as familiar. you've spoken about gender and sex and we're referencing the plus, but can you just define those terms for our listeners, particularly the plus as well? Dr. Michelle Forcier: Sure. For many gender has been considered in this very binary, traditional way of male, female. Or heterosexual and homosexual. Sexuality is about who we love and who we're attracted to and who we have different sexual behaviors with. Gender is who we are. It's a part of our identity in terms of being masculine, feminine, non-binary and all the other ways that we could express, a gendered self. And the world for many years has been pretty limited in terms of only discussing these binary identities. I think with time, with improved social discourse, with the advent of the internet and increasing knowledge spread in, in diverse ways and diverse communities, we understand that there are many, many ways to be sexual and many ways to be gendered. So the L stands for lesbian, which are persons, we might say women who are attracted to or have sex with women. Gay usually is referenced to either, males or females who are attracted to the same gender partner, bisexual, historically has been the term for people who identify as being attracted to both males and females. But now we have even more inclusive terms, which are things like pansexual, which means gender doesn't factor into who I'm attracted to. Transgender or gender diverse are persons whose gender identity doesn't exactly match the gender they were assigned by their parts, chromosomes or hormones and birth. I is another. Initial for intersex or persons who have differences, in sexual development in the parts and organs they were born with. And A can mean asexual or persons who really don't have a sexual affinity or an interest in, sexual activity.  allied, And the plus means there are probably a million different ways, and we know there are a million different ways people may identify in terms of how they see themselves as a gendered person and their gender expression and gender role and gender self in the world, as well as their sexual, um, attraction, their sexual behaviors and their sexual identity in the world. Susan Stone: That's a lot. That's a lot. But here's messy. Something that comes into my mind, because you are a pediatrician. How do those differences make a difference in terms of just treatment for well visits? What is, what type of care is specific and unique to that population as opposed to what I would call a heteronormative child. Dr. Michelle Forcier: Sure. to be honest, in any visit, and again whether it's children or whether it's adults, we should be talking about these aspects of selfhood and behavior and health needs across the lifespan. Of course, we should do it in a developmentally appropriate way. So if we're gonna talk to a six year old about their gender identity, we might ask them, they're like, what is it like to be a boy or a girl? How does that feel to you? How do you express boyness? How do you express girlness, For a 16 year old, that may have very different words in terms of, how do you view your gender identity? What parts of it are comfortable for you, what parts are not comfortable? Do you have any questions? Again, the same with sexuality. Who might you have a crush on versus, a full sexual history forlater teen or young adult who's sexually active with one or more partners. So it's all about, again, using the language of the patient and understanding where they are developmentally to continue to talk about these aspects of both selfhood and wellness during health visits. Susan Stone: Well, I guess I wanna press you on that because I'm a mother of three. And I would say for the first 14 years of, checkups. It's, you know, height, weight, weight, vaccinations,  Kristina Supler: poking and prodding,  Susan Stone: poking and prodding, talking about school and milestones. We really,  Kristina Supler: or at least that was your experience with your child's children's pediatrician. Susan Stone: Yeah, but I just don't rem I don't think conversations regarding sex came into play until when the making a decision about the H P V vaccine or maybe when does menstruation start for that being the end of growth? I guess that's what I'm confused. Or birth control when that comes in. But other than that, I think of, how big is the baby? Dr. Michelle Forcier: And I'm thrilled that you ask about this. Because what I'm proposing is a slightly more advanced model of care in the sense that, again, if we know that there is gender diversity in the world and some youth present as gender diverse, gender exploratory as early as four, five, and six. Shouldn't we be talking to parents about, say again, educating people? Your child who is assigned male or female at birth. But we don't know what their gender identity may be later down the line. And that's the one or two sentences that a pediatrician can have with a parent to, again, describe and educate the difference between an assigned gender at birth and the fact that potentially two or three of probably more percent of the population of young people are going to be, or exploring gender, or at least talking about it over time. Then when we know that many youth undergo puberty and it's considered normal. As early as seven or eight year old, you can s

In this episode, KJK Student Defense attorneys Susan Stone and Kristina Supler talk with Andrew Fishman, licensed clinical social worker in Chicago, Illinois who works with clients to understand the impact of video games on mental health.  In this episode, they talk about the subject of kids socializing in video games.  Topics include why kids are using online games to meet people, what works and what doesn’t work for balancing kids between the online and offline world, and simple strategies parents can use to ensure their kids are safe online. Links: Andrew Fishman on Psychology Today Show Notes: (05:16) Why kids are using video games to meet people (07:41)  Texting or Voice: How kids communicate in these virtual worlds (08:34)  Did Covid cause online meeting to explode? (09:18)  Stranger Danger: Can Anyone Talk to your Kids Online? (11:05)  At What Age Should You Trust Your Kids to Chat Online? (11:45)  Do Time Limitations Work? (12:46)  Why Some People Prefer Online Socialization (16:14)  Video Game Addiction: Is It Real? (16:59)  When Anything Could Be Classified as Addiction (17:47)  Dopamine Hits:  Overblown or Real? (19:13)  Simple Strategies Parents Can Implement to Get Kids Into the Real World (21:07)  Are Kids Even Interested in Reading Anymore? (23:12)  Roblox:  Friendly Game or Hateful Space (25:01)  How Parents Can Really Judge if a Game is Safe For Their Kids Transcript: Susan Stone: So I just got back folks out there in listening land from Portugal, and I haven't even told this story to Kristina yet. So one morning I'm at breakfast and I see a cute family, a mom, a dad, and a little boy. And I had noticed them the other day at breakfast and I actually had noticed them the evening before at dinner. We had landed at the same restaurant probably cuz the concierge always sends you to the same restaurant. Do you guys know that out there? Totally true. Totally true. And, The little boy is just being so well behaved. And I remember when my kids were little that it was really difficult in a restaurant to be kids. Kristina Supler: Oh, he has such anxiety going to a restaurant with these kids. Oh yeah.  Susan Stone: Yeah. Talking to the mother, she there, she's fascinating. She was really lovely. Fa. They're from the UK and I said, I cannot believe how well behaved your son is. I remember when my kids were little and you know how well they're doing on this trip to Portugal. While it was a lovely romantic vacation for my hus, hubby and I. I didn't really see it as a place for  Kristina Supler: kids families.  Susan Stone: Yeah. I mean it was, there were a lot of family, but when, I think when my kids were little mm-hmm. They just wanted to splish splash at the pool. Do kid stuff. I did a lot of kid stuff and she said,I really believe that to raise children, they need to be bored and come up with their own creativity. And in theory, I play by that rule too. Kids need to engage in imaginative play. But Kristina, the kid's face was glued  Kristina Supler: to a tablet, let me guess.  Susan Stone: To a tablet. I'm like, I saw where you were going with this. Ah, that is not imaginative play. In my days, I would give my kids blank paper, not even coloring books. And some crayons at a restaurant and say, Keep yourself busy, dude. And then they didn't, they misbehaved, but that stuck with me. Sure.  Kristina Supler: it's in this day and age when in any situation for kids, the minute there's like even a hint of misbehavior, you give them a device.  And even for adults, if you think about it in an awkward situation, you have time to kill. What do we do? We immediately turn to our devices versus looking around us talking to a stranger. Looking at something, on, on the street. It's just, we are so into our devices, whether it's kids or adults.  Susan Stone: Oh, how many times have you gone out to dinner with someone in their faces of, in their phone. And I've done it. And I'm not judging this parent because you know what? I didn't have that available when I raised my kids dad. Sure.  Kristina Supler: And I just also, as a working mom, I just have, I just think about you have a long day. You wanna enjoy an evening out with your family, with your kids. You wanna have family time. And then something starts to unravel or someone's a little cranky, or who knows what the situation is. It's, I get it. Like it's easy to just say, here, honey. Okay. Look at my phone.  Susan Stone: And so is the tablet, the older kid pacifier.  Kristina Supler: Sure. Look at that. I think so. yes. The tablet is the modern day Passy. There you go. There you go.  Susan Stone: There's your baby Bop. Or as Josh, I'm gonna embarrass you out there. He used to call him his baby ah. But why don't you introduce our guest.  Kristina Supler: Sure. So today we are really happy to be talking with Andrew Fishman. and we're gonna talk. Hi Andrew.  Andrew Fishman: Hello. I'm happy to hear here.  Kristina Supler: Welcome Andrew. Andrew's a licensed clinical social worker and therapist based in the Chicago area. He specializes in working with adolescents certified in treating video game addiction. Andrew is dedicated to addressing the challenges faced by young individuals in today's digital world. Passes everywhere. He actively contributes in the field that's good, in the field of video games and mental health by sharing his insights and knowledge through his articles on Psychology Today.  Andrew's expertise has garnered attention beyond the realm of therapy. He's been featured in publications like The Wall Street Journal and Al Jazeera. He's also given a host of Noteworthy speeches.  Today, what drew us to Andrew was an article that appeared in Psychology Today entitled, Why So Many Teens use Video Games to Meet others. And so this is a cool topic that we're gonna jump into. And again, Andrew, we're really happy to have you with us today. Welcome. Thank you again.  Susan Stone: So let's kick it off. Your article, which I have right here with me. Why so many teens use video games to meet others. Your premise is that the video games have become the new mall where kids meet. Can you, yeah. Talk about this and elaborate a little more.  Andrew Fishman: So kids really want to spend time with each other in person. But it's where can they go? They wanna hang out with each other in person. But they just there's nowhere to do it. When I was a kid, we had all sorts of places to go. That was 20 years ago. But all those places I looked at them, they're all closed, oh yeah.  Susan Stone: Or you don't feel safe sending them. My dad used to drop me off at the mall. Kristina Supler: I was gonna say, and my day, it was Camelot music. We all went and hung music store. So I, there's not a lot of places. For kids to go, I'm saying kids, but teens, young adults and people's houses. Susan Stone: Why not mm-hmm. The basement.  Andrew Fishman: Yeah. No, that's it. that's great. And that's one of the places that they have. I think part of the problem with, for my clients at least, is how do you get to those places? Mm-hmm. With both your parents now work. You're,and you don't have a car yet. You can't go to their, you can't go to somebody else's house. And a lot of the parents don't want their kids going anywhere during, on a school night, which makes a certain amount of sense, but that's now five sevenths of your week that you can't see other people. And so they're they come home on a Monday night and they're exhausted from school and they wanna see somebody else. They wanna talk to a peer. And their options are calling somebody on the phone, which nobody does, or they can,or they can text each other, which a lot of them do. Or they on, on Snapchat or something. Or they can have a long fun voice chat while sharing a game and that, so those, what they call third spaces, which is the place other than school or work or home, the malls, the bowling alleys, the churches, all sorts, the places we used to meet people. This has become their third place where you go home after school and you can go to a virtual third place and spend as much time with your friends as you want. And so it, it certainly makes sense that you would go there.  Susan Stone: How do you talk to each other? Or are you just playing? Explain how it works to this. Kristina Supler: Are people who are in these online communities only talking about the video games? Are these people talking about, I don't know, favorite food sports team's life?  Andrew Fishman: it depends on the game, but generally, yeah. People talk about all sorts of things when they're with friends. People talk about their day. They complain about teachers. They, do all the typical adolescent conversations and even if they're not, Talking about their lives outside of the games and they're just talking about it. I still think it's a positive experience.  Susan Stone: Wait, are they talking or is it texting?  Andrew Fishman: That's a, it's a good question. There's both. So some of the games, most games, if there's a multiplayer component, will have a text feature in the game. Some of them also have a voice chat, and there's also supplementary apps you can use. There's one that's really popular called Discord. It's a website and Yep. So it's for listeners, it's a website or app that you can use to communicate and build little virtual communities. I have, I, I met a few of them myself, and they're fun, but you, it also has a feature where you can just, make a group of friends and then set everybody up with a headset and then chat on this external app while playing a while, playing a game. Kristina Supler: Andrew, these online gaming communities,they're obviously extremely popular. Were they popular pre covid d or do you think Covid really caused the huge surge in, in the involvement of young people in these online communities?  Andrew Fishman: Actually, I think I, they've always been popular. I think that it's certainly, there, there was definitely a surge. And