Hardly Working with Brent Orrell

Ben Wildavsky is a veteran higher education strategist and writer, and host of the Higher Ed Spotlight podcast. He brings decades of experience in journalism and education policy, including leadership roles at Strada Education Network, the College Board, and US News & World Report. He is the author of The Career Arts: Making the Most of College, Credentials, and Connections and an award-winning expert on education-to-workforce initiatives. In this episode of Hardly Working we explore the German model of dual studies, a unique blend of vocational training and academic education, and examine its implications for the US as industries continue to evolve in the face of technological change. Ben's insights, drawn from years of leadership in education, offer valuable lessons on the future of workforce development.Mentioned in the Episode:Germany Jumps on Degree ApprenticeshipsNational Center for the Apprenticeship DegreeTaiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing CompanyThe Career Arts: Making the Most of College, Credentials & Connections

Robert Lerman is a research fellow at the Urban Institute and the co-founder of Apprenticeships for America, where he is dedicated to expanding opportunities for lifelong learning and ensuring that apprenticeships are a cornerstone of America’s educational landscape. Through his prolific research and advocacy, we examine the role of apprenticeships in our economy, successful policy examples in Europe, and the impact of AI and technological changes. Mentioned in the episode:Apprenticeships for AmericaSkills-Based HiringNational Apprenticeship Resource HubThe Harold W. McGraw, Jr. 2024 Prize in Education

Stuart Andreason is the Executive Director of Programs at the Burning Glass Institute where he leads efforts in research and engagement on workforce innovation, higher education, and economic mobility. Through his personal experience and his work in skills-based hiring, we look at vocation in career, skills signals, and role of technology in the hiring process.Mentioned in the episode: Burning Glass InstituteSkills-Based Hiring: The Long Road from Pronouncements to PracticeHow Advanced Data Systems Can Do More to Drive Economic Mobility

Kerry McKittrick, in her work as co-director of The Project on Workforce at Harvard, looks into different aspects of the relationship between workforce development and careers. In this episode of Hardly Working, we dive into three different reports that McKittrick has authored recently. Mentioned in the episode:The College-to-Jobs Initiative: Exploring the intersection of higher education and the workforceCollege-to-Jobs MapUnlocking Economic Prosperity: Career Navigation in a Time of Rapid ChangeWorkforce Strategies for New Industrial Policies: Governors’ Emerging Solutions

Description:This week on Hardly Working, Brent Orrell talks with David Hernandez, Vice President of Education at IPC, the Global Association for Electronics Manufacturing.Brent and David discuss domestic electronics manufacturing, workforce education and training, and the global supply chain. Mentioned During the Show:IPC International, Inc.The CHIPS and Science Act

On July 22, Brent Orrell from AEI and Tony Pipa from Brookings hosted a discussion about Casa Grande Valley Farms, an agricultural cooperative from the New Deal era that faced challenges and eventually failed. AEI's Kevin R. Kosar, who has republished a book on the project, joined the conversation to discuss the lessons this historical case offers for modern federal rural economic development, especially in the context of recent legislative investments like the CHIPS and Science Act. Mentioned in the episode:Tony Pipa (Brookings)Kevin R. Kosar (AEI)Casa Grande Valley FarmsThe Government Project by Edward C. BanfieldCooperative modelThe Great DepressionCHIPS and Science Act No Child Left BehindUSAID

Russ Roberts, President of Shalem College in Jerusalem and host of the Econtalk podcast, discusses his book, “Wild Problems: A Guide to the Decisions That Define Us. The book discusses Robert’s approach to problems that can’t be solved with normal economics analysis. In this episode, Brent and Russ also discuss the influences Russ had growing up and the advice he has for young people today.Mentioned in the EpisodeWild Problems by Russ RobertsShalem College in JerusalemIt’s a Wonderful Loaf PoemKeynes vs. Hayek Rap BattleThe Price of Everything by Russ RobertsMaslow’s Hierarchy of NeedsKentucky Community College Using AI to Train Peer Support SpecialistsF.A. HayekMilton FriedmanDeirdre McCloskeyGary Becker

On July 8, AEI’s Brent Orrell hosted the fifth event in the “On the Front Porch” series with the Brookings Institution’s Tony Pipa featuring Stanford University Professor Keith Humphreys and AEI’s Sally Satel, two experts in opioid treatment and the societal effects of drug abuse in rural areas. They discuss the factors that led to the opioid crisis and the challenges in resolving it. Mentioned in the EpisodeTony Pipa (Brookings)Keith Humphreys (Stanford)Sally Satel (AEI)Pavlovian conditioningOrigins of the Opioid Crisis and its Enduring Impacts by Abby Alpert et. alDeath in Mud Lick Book by Eric EyreDr. Art Van ZeeDeaths of Despair and the Future of Capitalism by Anne Case and Angus DeatonGolden Leaf Foundation

This week on Hardly Working, Brent Orrell talks with AEI Senior Fellow Brad Wilcox. Wilcox’s recent book Get Married: Why Americans Should Defy the Elites, Forge Strong Families and Save Civilization explores the importance of marriage in society. Brent and Wilcox discuss how marriage promotes healthy families and why declines in marriage rates are so alarming. They also touch on how marriage and family structure impact the workforce and explore the particular challenges facing young men, such as family instability and low workforce participation.Mentioned in this episodeRichard ReevesRaj ChettyGrowing Up With a Single ParentNicholas EberstadtFatherless AmericaRichard HananiaTemporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF)

Americans are grappling with the complexities of economic growth, technology, and their impacts on society. This week, Brent talks with Oxford University economist Daniel Susskind, who explores these themes in his latest book Growth: A Reckoning. Together, Brent and Susskind discuss the historical context of growth, the role of technological advancements, and Susskind’s views on the need for policies that better align economic incentives with social values. Mentioned in this EpisodeTax treatment of labor versus capitalJohn Maynard KeynesSimon KuznetsThe Stern Review

Americans’ views on the economy have soured in recent years, often seemingly disconnected with the realities of work and growth in incomes. One particularly pernicious meme, found on both the left and the right, is that economic growth has not translated into higher wages for American workers. This week on Hardly Working, Brent sits down with Scott Winship, who dispels this myth in his recent report, “Understanding Trends in Worker Pay over the Past 50 Years.” Brent and Scott discuss the changing dynamics of the economy, the shifting demand for skills, and how we can expand opportunity within the world’s largest and most dynamic economy. Mentioned in this EpisodeNixon ShockWagner ActOf Boys and MenKevin Corinth

In a world where the traditional boundaries of work are being redrawn, the interplay between work and personal satisfaction, a sense of purpose, and meaning is rapidly evolving. This week on Hardly Working, Brent sits down with John Tamny, editor of RealClearMarkets and president of the Parkview Institute. They discuss Tamny’s 2018 book The End of Work: Why Your Passion Can Become Your Job, which envisions a world where material abundance frees all of us up to pursue our passions at work.

Contemporary differences between rural and urban areas in America have their roots in long-term demographic, economic, technological, and social factors. Brent and the Brookings Institution’s Tony Pipa are hosting conversations “On the Front Porch” with authors of recent research on issues facing rural America. These discussions explore the unique challenges and opportunities facing rural America and consider policy options to promote development and opportunity. Today, we bring you a recent conversation with economist Carol Graham. Graham’s recent book The Power of Hope: How the Science of Well-Being Can Save Us from Despair discusses the role that hope plays in supporting the development of individuals and communities in America.

As technology marches on, what kind of world are we moving towards? According to AEI senior fellow Jim Pethokoukis, it’s an abundant and prosperous one, at least potentially. So long as we play our cards right–and embrace what he calls an “UpWing” technology and growth policies we will reap the benefits of what many find to be destabilizing, disorienting change. This week on Hardly Working, Brent speaks with Pethokoukis about his book The Conservative Futurist: How to Create the Sci-Fi World We Were Promised and how we can best manage the steps toward the UpWing future.Mentioned in this episodeThe Third Century: America's Resurgence in the Asian EraNouriel RoubiniFor All MankindFaster, Please!ExtrapolationsDerek ThompsonEzra KleinLost in SpaceThe MartianInterstellarProphet of Innovation

In a world of specialists, generalists sometimes seem like people without a country. That may be changing. In an age of specialized–and increasingly powerful– AI tools, going broad rather than narrow may increasingly be valuable. Today on Hardly Working, Vikram Mansharamani returns to the podcast to discuss his personal and professional journey as a self-described generalist. His recent memoir The Making of a Generalist narrates his journey from a kid curious about everything to one of the nation’s most sought-after thinkers and advisors on questions of calling and career.  We hope you enjoy this conversation.

Divides between rural and urban America have their roots in longstanding demographic, economic, technological, and social factors. In a new event series, AEI’s Brent Orrell and the Brookings Institution’s Tony Pipa are hosting a series of conversations “On the Front Porch” with authors of recent research on issues facing rural America.These discussions explore the unique challenges and opportunities facing rural America and consider policy options to promote development and opportunity. Today on Hardly Working, we bring you the first of these events, a conversation with Nicholas F. Jacobs, the author of the recent book The Rural Voter: The Politics of Place and the Disuniting of America, which examines the state of politics in rural America.Orrell, Pipa, and Jacobs consider the book’s central claim that rural Americans have in recent years combined a deep sense of connection to place with increasingly nationalized policy and political concerns to form a distinct voting bloc. They also discuss the history of rural America; the social, cultural, and economic forces that have affected it in recent years; and the popular notion of a stark rural-urban divide. Overall, they emphasize the importance of dispelling myths about rural America to overcome distrust and disunity.Mentioned in this EpisodeReimagining Rural Policy InitiativeGeneral Social SurveyOmaha Platform of 1892North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA)Hillbilly Elegy by J.D. VanceFederalismAmerican Exchange Project

In recent years, confidence in higher education has plummeted. This decline has prompted a vigorous debate on the role of all types of post-secondary education. In their recent book America’s Hidden Economic Engines: How Community Colleges Can Drive Shared Prosperity, Robert B. Schwartz and Rachel Lipson make the case for the value of community colleges. Surveying five case studies across the US–in Ohio, Virginia, Arizona, Texas, and Mississippi–they argue that community colleges serve as “engines” of social mobility for individuals and communities. Their research shows that community colleges have proven remarkably effective at mitigating economic inequality and promoting social engagement and economic development.Today, Brent sits down with Lipson and Schwartz to discuss what their research means for students and policymakers.Mentioned in this episodeYear UpWorkforce Innovation and Opportunity ActPathways to Prosperity NetworkLorain County Community CollegePima Community CollegeLightcastThe Coleman ReportRaj ChettyOpportunity Insights

As artificial intelligence (AI) bounds ahead, many are rightfully concerned about the risks and ethical issues it raises. Perhaps some of the most practical of these is the potential that AI will be biased against minority populations because of deficiencies in the data used to build it. If true, this would have serious implications for human resources and hiring. Today, Brent sits down with Keith Sonderling, a commissioner on the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, or EEOC. Sonderling delves into the challenges and opportunities presented by the integration of AI into the workplace, particularly in hiring and employment decisions. And he emphasizes the complexity of AI and the difficulty – yet necessity – of regulating it so that it can benefit everyone.We hope you enjoy this conversation.Mentioned in this EpisodeEqual Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC)Fair Labor Standards ActFamily Medical Leave ActGoldman Sachs on AI’s Impact on the Labor MarketWorld Economic Forum on AI’s Impact on the Labor MarketNew York Local Law 144European Union AI ActOffice of Federal Contract Compliance Programs

Many urban Americans have come to believe that there’s a growing chasm separating urban and rural America. While urban America bounds ahead, rural America, many assume, is being left behind, struggling with material and spiritual impoverishment, and cultural confusion. This week on Hardly Working, Brent talks with University of Southern California professor Elizabeth Currid-Halkett, who dispels some of the myths about the so-called urban-rural divide. Currid-Halkett and Brent discuss her fantastic book The Overlooked Americans: The Resilience of Our Rural Towns and What it Means For Our Country, which Brent reviewed for the Dispatch in September. As you’ll hear, rural America is doing a lot better than you might think. Mentioned in this episodeJane JacobsUniversity of Chicago General Social SurveyRaj ChettyPosse FoundationAmerican Exchange ProjectTimes/Siena Poll on Trump's advantage in battleground states

Regrettably, the debate about post-secondary education has devolved into just another culture war issue with one camp saying “everyone go to college” and another saying “skip college learn a trade.” Today, Brent sits down with Ben Wildavsky, a visiting scholar at the University of Virginia’s School of Education and Human Development, who challenges this false dichotomy. In his recent book “The Career Arts,” Wildavsky argues that education, job, and career success require integrating broad-based skills (such as those acquired through a liberal arts and social science education) with more narrow, technical skills (such as those acquired through credential programs). Such integration, Wildavsky contends, supports well-rounded and resilient workers who can more easily adapt to an unpredictable and rapidly changing economy. Mentioned in this EpisodeStrada Education FoundationCollege wage premiumLarry KatzTony CarnevaleGeorgetown Center on Education and the WorkforceProject BastaClimb HigherWestern Governors UniversityPoint Loma Nazarene UniversitySeth Bodnar, president, University of MontanaSociety for Human Research ManagementSkills-based hiring