Audio Branding

“I’m blown away by it. So, when I close my eyes and I listen to these things, and I hear those textures and I understand the footsteps coming from afar and getting closer and, you know, like, this stuff matters. Like, it paints the picture [so] that I don’t even have to have my eyes open. I can see the whole movie happen with sound.” – Michael DargieThis episode is the second half of my conversation with founder & executive creative director at Make More Creative, and Author of BrandJitsu™, Michael Dargie as we talk about his approach to uncovering and building up a sonic brand, how close we are to fully synthetic voiceover, and his insights as a marketer and director into what he’s looking for in a voiceover artist.As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.(00:00) - Finding Your Brand’s Unique SoundThe second half of our conversation begins as Michael talks about how the art of quickly building up a story in improv intersects with storytelling in branding. “What do you do? Why do you do it? Who do you do it for? Why do they care?” he asks. “It’s that circle of expectations. And it doesn’t have to be perfect and it doesn’t have to be sales-y.” He shares more about his process for establishing a brand’s sonic identity and the building blocks of a successful campaign. “I think from a brand standpoint,” he explains, “and a sound specific standpoint is, ‘What is true for the brand?’ Just to oversimplify, ‘are you comedy, are you rock and roll, or are you country? Are you Donnie or Marie?’”(12:30) - The Balance of Sound and StorytellingMichael walks us through his process for casting and directing an ad campaign for a company that wanted to build a more versatile brand image. “We were trying to show that it’s manufacturing,” he tells us, “going from idea to thing to in the hands of somebody who needs a thing. That was the narrative arc. So part of it was I really wanted a feminine voice to tell that story.” He describes the casting process and what sets the right voiceover artist apart from the competition. “I think the other thing too,” he says, “that you’ll know as well is like, are you direct-able? Can you take a note and then do something with it and surprise us with your new approach to it? …Especially when you’re doing a read that’s maybe not even half a page, but you have to go through eight emotions.”(24:37) - The Future of Sound in BrandingOur conversation wraps up as Michael shares his thoughts about the power of sound, and how critical it is to a successful ad campaign. “It’s not something to be thrown away or to be tucked in at the end,” he tells us. “It’s your palette, and I think it… serves the visual that you’re going for. It’s the subtext for it all.” He tells listeners how they can get in touch and offers his thoughts on AI and where humans fit into the mix. “My agency name is Make More Creative,” he explains, “because that’s what we do… We are using AI for a lot of stuff right now, but we always have people in

“I don’t know if you can see it, [but] that’s an octopus. Yeah, on my upper arm. If you’re not watching this, the audio version is, there’s sunlight coming through and it’s dappling across this octopus. I’m a scuba diver. I really did believe, when I was young, that I was going to be a marine mammal biologist. That was my destiny. I watched Jacques Cousteau and I was all about it, and then life happened and I wasn’t all about it. It was until later in life that I got into scuba diving.” – Michael DargieThis week’s guest is a storyteller, creative instigator, occasional octopus whisperer, and founder of Make More Creative. He mentors with Calgary Economic Development and Canada’s Trade Accelerator Program, and speaks regularly at incubators, colleges, and universities. He’s the author of BrandJitsu™: Move Your Brand From ‘Meh’ To Memorable, a methodology that helps companies find, shape, and share their stories, and he’s a creative chaos agent with Loose Moose Theatre and Dropbear & Panda Productions, and the host of the multi-nominated RebelRebel podcast.His name is Michael Dargie, and in this episode, we’ll be diving into the power of sound in storytelling, branding, and bold creative expression. From podcasting to performance, he shares how voice and sound shape everything he creates—emotionally, strategically, and playfully. You’ll hear how his experiences as a comedian, filmmaker, and entrepreneur all connect through the thread of sound. And whether you’re a fellow storyteller or just love great audio, you’ll leave this conversation inspired to find your own voice, and maybe stir up a little creative trouble while you’re at it.As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.(00:00) - Becoming an Octopus WhispererWe start the conversation off with Michael’s early memories of sound, which in his case includes gunslinger ballads on the family stereo. “I would just listen to these songs,” he says, “these stories, and just get lost in the moment. I would let my brain drift away and see it all happening.” He also tells us more about what it means to be an octopus whisperer. “I have been diving with them,” he explains, “I’ve interacted with them, I’ve hung out with them. I love them. They’re. They’re smart. They’ve got, like, nine brains. You know, each arm has its own brain. It’s like distributive intelligence.”(13:01) - Creative Rebel in SoundMichael talks more about being a creative rebel, and how his podcast, The RebelRebel Podcast, aims for people who don’t necessarily fit just one creative box. “It’s for creative rebels and entrepreneurs,” he says, “people that go left when people go right, you zig when others zag, and I’m curious about that story. So if you fit that model, then you’d be a great fit to the show.” We discuss his improv comedy experience and the lessons it taught him about marketing. “[Improv] is a huge part of it,” he tells us. “Like, you agree to what’s happening and then see where it goes instead of blocking the...

“I think there’s nothing that truly resonates across all of your senses like sound does. If I’m watching something gorgeous, it’s a feast for my eyes, and it starts and ends there. But if I’m listening to something, it’s the one thing that can truly always be in your brain presence — always bringing things up or bringing things down. I mean, if you’re in a bad mood, one of the five ways to get out of it is going to be put on music, guaranteed.” – Jeremy ToemanThis episode is the second half of my conversation with founder of Augie, media and technology leader, and entrepreneur Jeremy Toeman as we discuss the sometimes-random twists and turns that created social media as we know it, the lessons he’s drawn from video-game design to help improve audio-first UX, and his perspective on balancing AI efficiency and human authenticity.As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.(00:00) - The Role of Sound in BrandingThe second half of our discussion begins with a look at podcasting, and why Fortune-500 interviews aren’t always the best approach for a business podcast. “They’re not really leverage-able,” he explains. “There’s not a lot of practical value in, like, ‘he gets up at 5 AM every day and does a 20-minute cold plunge, and he doesn’t look at any device and only eats oysters.’ Okay, but I’m never going to do that.” We talk about what AI has to offer podcasters and about how its ability to sift through user data and predict trends can impact even the most seemingly human elements. “I had someone blow my mind the other day,” he says, “He got on my podcast, and he had used an AI tool to listen to my other episodes and then predict for him what questions I would ask him… And it was pretty on spot.”(12:15) - Practical Tips for CreatorsWe talk about UX design for everything from software apps to smart devices, and how he’s taking his cues from the video game industry. “Think about tech products,” he says, “video games have music. They have sound effects, music... There should be so much more in our tech world where audio can make it a more satisfying experience..” He tells us about his daughter, who’s just published her first indie video game, and the hands-on approach to Foley sound effects that her experience taught him. “We were in my car and it was making this weird noise when you open the door,” he recalls, “and she’s like, hang on, can everybody be quiet? And she grabbed her phone and went to record it.”(20:00) - Enhancing Your Brand IdentityAs our conversation comes to a close, Jeremy talks more about the power of sound as a branding tool. “I think there’s nothing that truly resonates across all of your senses like sound does, right?” he says. “Like, if I’m watching something gorgeous, it’s a feast of my eyes, and it starts and ends there.” He tells us about his upcoming projects and AI developments, and how he’s working to balance the human and AI elements of new media. “We don’t want to take away from video editing or voiceover actors...

“I love the use of AI voices or synthetic voices for people who might, you know, they’re embarrassed. I’ve worked with engineers my whole career, and sometimes, like, it’s not that they don’t want to tell their story or break something out there, but maybe they just don’t have the self-confidence or they were made fun of as a kid. I mean, I’ve always thought I had a super nasally voice and never liked the sound of my voice. And years into public speaking, I’m like, fine, I can, handle it now. So I love it from that perspective of, if, for some reason you couldn’t, now you can. I hate it from the perspective of, well, you can’t have the human do all this stuff, but instead you just sort of one-clicked it and now it’s sort of an average, generic, mediocre, you know, as they say, AI slop.” – Jeremy ToemanThis episode’s guest is the founder and CEO of Augie, an AI-assisted video creation and editing studio for marketers and social media managers. He’s also the creator and host of Founder at 50, a podcast and newsletter exploring the challenges and reinventions faced by entrepreneurs later in life. He’s held leadership roles at WarnerMedia, Etsy, CBS Interactive, and Sling Media, and founded several successful startups in the media tech space. His name is Jeremy Toeman, and we’ll be digging into how sound shapes trust, helps tech feel more human, and why even a simple “ding” can change a user’s experience. If you love the magic where tech and storytelling meet, this one’s for you.As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.(00:00) - The Emotional Power of SoundOur discussion starts with Jeremy’s early memories of sound, including a childhood movie that’s made a lifelong impression on him. “They incorporate, like, opera,” he describes 1979’s Breaking Away, “into the scenes. When he’s bike racing, you’re hearing like The Marriage of Figaro in the background. And the last time I watched it through, there’s something, like, every time the music would hit these moments, I’m just like weeping on my couch.” He shares his perspective as both a child and a parent when it comes to watching scary movies, and we talk about the hidden role cinematic sound plays in setting the mood. “If you not only turn on the lights,” he explains, “but simply mute it... They might still get tense, but, like, the thing that rocks them to their core goes completely away.”(11:46) - The Evolution of Audio TechnologyJeremy tells us more about his career journey, including the pioneering MP3 and streaming technologies he helped develop around the turn of the millennium, and how the limitations of the early internet led to a stronger focus on sound quality. “If the video buffered,” he explains, “you would be expecting it. It was normal. It was 2005, all video buffered, there was no such thing as non-buffering video. Whereas if the audio skipped even a little bit, it would just be really jarring.” He discusses some of the major brands he’s worked for, such as CBS and WarnerMedia,...

“That’s a big thing that I always like to try to put together in the shows — creating the sense of space, where we are taking that audience somewhere. And sonically, what does that sound like? I like having a lot of detail on, okay, this space, i.e. this portion of the episode. It’s like, if I go back to the American Kennel Club example, okay, this is Missouri in the 1850s in the summer. Okay, cool. I can work within that. There’s a lot of information and detail there that I could pull out.” – Joshua SuhyThis episode is the second half of my conversation with JSS Audio Sound Designer, Audio Engineer, and Producer Joshua Suhy as we discuss how he helps synergize the aural and visual components of a branded podcast, his advice to people who are still building a reputation in the sound industry, and the best strategy to new podcasters looking to avoid the dreaded “podcast graveyard.”As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.(00:00) - The Importance of Sonic BrandingAs the second half of our discussion begins, Joshua talks about his work with marketing teams and what it takes to align a new audio brand with an established visual identity. “A missed opportunity that lots of brands aren't paying attention to is trying to figure out what do we sound like,” he says. “How are we coming across to an audience on an audio, an aural component versus just visual?” We discuss how music and sonic logos fit into branded podcasts, and about the versatility of original music content. “You can begin to see the possibilities,” he explains, “if you own the IP, [of] how much more capability you have creatively if you actually own the content that you're working with.”(14:20) - Branded Podcasts and Flagship ShowsWe talk about sound design and his advice for sound engineers who are just starting out in the industry. “The biggest thing, I think,” he says, “is to establish rapport with the agency or the people that you're working with, being able to trust them, but with the understanding that it's a symbiotic relationship between the two of you.” He tells us about how branded podcasts differ from regular content, and how the branding goes beyond just commercials and interstitials. “A big thing is really being able to figure out what is your voice,” he says. “What is the brand voice? What are you looking for in your show? What audience do you want to reach? And, essentially, creating an audience avatar of this.”(20:30) - Advice for New Audio ProfessionalsOur conversation wraps up as Joshua explains why it’s better to start slow as a podcaster, and why monetization shouldn’t necessarily be the primary goal. “If it leads to that, that's great,” he tells us. “But if your sole and only motivation behind your podcast is to make money, chances are you're going to be disappointed, and chances are your show is going to end up in the podcast graveyard with a lot of other people.” He shares how listeners can get in touch, and why sound designers shouldn’t write off their...

“But from that point, it was just a matter of, okay, I’ve got to put all this kind of stuff together now. And now that there isn’t a moving image that I’m necessarily locked into, I wield more power in regards to molding the action, so I could decide how a scene breaks down. And I think the example that I had given to you was, if we have a scene where two characters are in a room or one character walks up to another one, I can decide, am I the character already in the room? Or am I the person outside of the room coming up to the other character? Because obviously those are two vastly different sound design approaches.” – Joshua SuhyThis week’s guest is the founder of JSS Audio and a veteran of over fifteen years in the audio industry as a Sound Designer, Audio Engineer and Producer. His goal is to capture the essence of creative people’s ideas and bring tangible experiences to their audiences. Helping people tell stories through sound is his passion. His name is Joshua Suhy, and we’ll be talking about the subtle power of audio, the unexpected moments that define a mix, and why even the smallest sound can shape how we experience a story. If you want to learn how sound can influence feeling, this episode’s for you.As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.(00:00) - Using AI in Sound DesignOur conversation starts off with how Joshua has been putting AI to work for him in the studio, from finding gigs to helping manage his schedule. “One thing that I use it a lot for is to send me, like, a digest every morning of verified, paid, open audio gigs,” he explains. “I'm trying to use AI for the sake of what AI is supposed to do, [to] try to make my life easier.” He shares his early memories of sounds and the path that led him to become a sound engineer and producer, including a memorable sound editing project in his film class “Specifically it was the Bugs Bunny vs Elmer Fudd boxing match,” he says, “being able to blend real life sound effects, and we had the Hanna-Barbera sound library available at the school. So I'm like, I have [all] the stuff that I had always heard as a kid.”(18:30) - Transition to Audio ProductionThe discussion turns to how the pandemic created a podcast boom that helped revolutionize audio and deepened Joshua’s approach to sound engineering. “Over time, we've changed it to where we wanna have full control over what's going on,” he tells us, “in regards to sending microphones out to people, sound checking people, making sure that they sound as good as possible, because I want the best quality coming in.” We talk about how audio standards loosened at the height of the pandemic as more people than ever before joined the podcasting sphere, and how technology has been working since to close the gap between home and work studios. “What I liked about it, though,” he explains, “was [how] it humanized podcasting and humanized the personalities... So being able to see, in an interview, somebody's child [walking] in the room, like these are people with real life...

“Step sounds in a game is a sample being repeated, and then people start to make little variations in pitch of this sample. And then they became increasingly sophisticated with middleware, and so a whole set of software emerged, a type of software game, audio middleware, that serves only the purpose of making sound, usually sample-based sounds, pleasurable to use in an interactive context. And there are many different strategies, layering, adaptive mixing, even spectral shaping and stuff like that. And, of course, generative approaches as well are coming in, and that’s so interesting.” – Daniel Hug This episode is the second half of my conversation with sound and interaction designer, researcher, and head of the Sound Design MA at Zurich University of the Arts, Daniel Hug, as we talk about what the Avengers and Matrix movies can teach us about sound design, how video games helped pave the way for audio-first UX, and the importance of learning not just music but the language of sound. As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that. (0:00:00) - The Evolution of Sound DesignAs we start the second half of our discussion, Daniel and I talk about how Hollywood blockbusters have shown that a strong first impression can have diminishing returns, and how video-game design demonstrates the value of planning for repetition when it comes to sound. “Game sound, I always say, it has taught me probably the most about interactive or use-oriented sound design,” he explains. “Although you would not expect it from there, it’s not product sound design, it has nothing to do with cars or appliances or whatever, but it’s the [same] basic mechanisms. It’s about interaction.” We talk about his work on electric vehicle soundscapes and the sound designs in sci-fi movies that helped shape his design philosophy. “The sound of the car changes based on the way I press the gas pedal,” he says. “So if I’m being too aggressive, the sound can actually tell me, make me feel that, oh, now you’re overdoing it. And that’s what a film sound designer would do in a science-fiction film.”(0:14:37) - Empowering Sound Design for Everyday LifeDaniel tells us more about the considerations that go into automobile sound design, including legal concerns that go well beyond the car’s interior. “In Europe,” he tells us, “they have this regulation that from zero to thirty you have to have some noise generator. So even Teslas have, since, I don’t know how many years, but eventually they started to make noise as well.” We talk about how COVID and the shift to virtual spaces and online content brought more attention to sound design, and how the language to describe sounds is still evolving. “We have all kinds of visual languages that are established and normative, so to say,” he explains. “They tell us how to think, or to think of a certain image. In sound, especially if it’s non-musical, this is often missing. We have to come up with something.” Episode...

“And I read this book, it was about acoustic communication. It was about how sound in everyday life mediates our relationship to the environment, and how we use it to communicate with each other, and so on, and that opens really a totally new field for me. So this was kind of the ignition, probably, for me to enter the non-musical sound world, which I’m still in. So there’s the world of noises, of everyday sounds and so on, and that’s how it started, basically. And from there I then came into interaction game design more or less by accident, and they had no one that knew anything about sound. And I kind of built up in this relatively new field of interaction game design at the time. This was in the early noughties.” – Daniel HugThis episode’s guest is a sound and interaction designer who co-directs the Master’s in Sound Design at Zurich University of the Arts. His work explores how sound shapes our experiences, from health technology to movement and education. He’s a leader in Sonic Interaction Design who serves on the steering committees for key sound design conferences and awards, and through research, teaching, and hands-on design, he bridges science, creativity, and business. He’s also a fellow jury member of the International Sound Awards, which is how we met. His name is Dr. Daniel Hug, and we’ll be exploring how sound can influence how we feel, move, and interact with the world around us.As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.(0:00:01) - Exploring Early Sound Memories and DesignOur conversation starts with Daniel’s earliest memory of sound, a lightning bolt striking a river one night when he was child. “It was like somebody just jumping on top of a huge church organ,” he says, “with the whole body, like really all the keys playing at once… it was really amazing, [and] I have never heard this again.” We talk about how he got into sound, from jazz school and piano lessons to his early work on video-game sound design, and he recalls how a book by composer Barry Truax changed his perspective on sound and music. “It was about acoustic communication,” Daniel recalls. “It was about how sound in everyday life mediates our relationship to the environment and how we use it to communicate with each other and so on, and that opened a totally new field for me.”(0:13:19) - Creating Environmental Sound InnovationsOur discussion turns to his work with Caru, a medical company whose devices use an audio-first UX, and the importance of considering how such work contributes to and fits into the user’s soundscape. “That’s our sonic environment and that’s our relationship to this environment,” he explains, “and by designing it, we design experiences or we contribute to experiences which are multi-sensory all the time. So even if there is no sound, there is a sound, but it’s one that you didn’t design.” We talk about how he draws inspiration from such wide-ranging sources as nature sounds to sci-fi movies, and how quickly those sounds can become integrated into our everyday...

“I said, ‘this is a tsunami that is coming, and I'm either going to be crushed by it and drowned under it and it's going to destroy everything I've built, or I'm going to learn to surf the big waves, and I'm going to do whatever I have to do to surf this wave,’ which is what I did sort of at the dawn of online video. I was sort of one of the first probably one hundred agencies in the country that were consistently making online video back in 2008 or 2009. So was a brand new thing, right? And so, I just decided, okay, I'm going to do that again. And once I made that decision, I actually got excited again, and my entrepreneurial instincts kicked in, and it was not fun. I sort of had to set off a grenade in the middle of my own business and say, okay, I'm going to start over.” – Wil Seabrook This episode is the second half of my conversation with singer, songwriter, and Light Touch Media Group’s founder and chief creative Wil Seabrook as we talk about where the AI revolution is leading the music industry, the one mistake small-business owners and freelancers make when it comes to finding clients, and how a retro-themed ad campaign made a splash in the TikTok era. As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that. (0:00:01) - Navigating AI in Changing Business LandscapeThe second half of our conversation picks up with a look at AI’s growing impact on the music industry, and where Wil sees it all heading. “I am an eternal optimist as a person,” he explains, “and so I think we are in so many ways we're actually headed for a golden age. I think we're going to solve a lot of logistical problems, a lot of medical and health problems.” He tells us more about how we might eventually get to that point, and some of the hurdles we’ll need to overcome, and the role human artists have to play. “It needs artists, it needs creative people guiding it, shaping it,” he says. “If you're going to change the system, essentially change it from the inside. I think that's very important.”(0:10:29) - Evolution of Technology in BusinessWil shares the biggest mistake he sees when working with voice talent: “The number one mistake that I see small business owners of all kinds make, but this absolutely goes for voiceover artists [and] other types of creative people, they just don't promote remotely enough.” He offers his tips on getting your name and brand out there as an artist, and the value of human creativity, even if it seems like AI can do it all. “If you have an innate talent that moves people,” Wil says, “that people gravitate toward, it's special and it's worth cultivating. It's worth persisting, it's worth learning and stumbling and scraping your knees and getting back up again, because that's not a gift that everybody's given.” Episode SummaryAI's impact on the music industry, and how business models have begun to adapt.How COVID-19 democratized audio production and where things might be...

“I will say, as someone who has auditioned hundreds and hundreds, if not over a thousand, voiceover artists and listened to very talented people doing the same take over and over again, the recording quality, the sound quality, absolutely matters. And it's an immediate… There are so many people for me where it's an immediate ‘no,’ because the moment I hear the sound quality and it's not totally up to a pro level, I assume tons of things about that.” – Wil Seabrook This episode’s guest is a former Warner Bros recording artist and the founder of two award-winning creative agencies, and he’s produced over 8,000 videos and commercials for some of the world's biggest and most successful companies. His name is Wil Seabrook, and this week we’ll be talking about how sound design affects his creative process, what people should keep in mind about sound when it comes to their own projects, and what role he sees AI playing in the short and long term when it comes to sounds of all sorts. If you work in sound and you’re struggling to find your place in the modern marketplace? You’ll definitely want to listen in on this conversation. As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that. (0:00:01) - Musicians' Early Sound Influences and JourneysAs our conversation starts, Wil recall his earliest memories of sound, and the impression that hearing a Simon & Garfunkel song made on both him and his parents. “I came home from preschool,” he recalls, “and I was talking to my mother, and I kept saying Funkle, Funkle. She's like, ‘what the heck are you talking about? You want a pencil?’ And she finally figured out that I wanted to listen to Simon & Garfunkel.” He talks about his early career as a musician, some of his missteps along the way and how he’s helped his son avoid them, and how social media has transformed the music scene. “I think the rise of social media,” he says, “the way things have changed in the last ten, fifteen years, you just realize what an incredible amount of talent there is in the world… now you can just sit down with your phone and a guitar and make a beautiful noise and inspire people, and I do think that part's neat.”(0:08:57) - The Power of Music in CommunicationThe discussion continues as Wil talks about his shift from working with Fortune 500 companies to helping small businesses establish their brand, and the different approach it requires. “It's a much more emotional journey,” he explains. “But I get to be more helpful with more things. I'm not just creating content, I'm helping them put it out into the world, improve their business, and I find that fun and engaging.” He also offers some firsthand advice to voice actors who might find themselves frustrated with the auditioning process. “Don't automatically assume that you did something wrong,” he tells us, “or that you've made a mistake, or that you're not talented, or that you're not doing everything right. You could do everything right and still not be the person who gets...

“I think sound is important because I believe it's the first sense that we develop even before we're born. And it's a way of knowing things, knowing the world. Even if you have your eyes shut, you can feel the place. You can feel if it's a big space, if it's an open space, a closed space. So I think it's our most basic feeling instinct that we have, and I remember, before my daughter was born, I would sing for her and her mom’s belly, would move. She would react to sound even before she was born. Yeah, so that's why I think sound is really, really important in everything.” – Humberto Franco This episode’s a little different than most of our podcasts here at Audio Branding. Instead of a conversation in my studio, this one follows my journey through Portugal, exploring the soundscapes of the Douro vineyards and a boat ride in Aveiro to the hustle and bustle of the Porto airport. This episode also features a very special guest. Humberto Franco is the producer and editor of Audio Branding: The Hidden Gem of Marketing, and he’s a professional, multilingual voice actor, a proud dad, an audio, video, and podcast editor and producer, and self-professed computer geek.We had a chance to catch up during my trip to Europe, and I know firsthand that Humberto has a great deal of insight into the power of sound, from how he approaches video and audio editing to his thoughts on how sound shapes every aspect of our lives. Stay tuned for a fascinating conversation about Humberto’s perspective as an editor and a behind-the-scenes look at Audio Branding itself, framed against the lively audio backdrop of the sights and sounds of Portugal. As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that. (0:00:00) - Exploring the Power of SoundOur conversation begins along a bridge near the city of Régua, surrounded by green hills and lush grape vines, and Humberto shares his earliest memory of sounds, including his parents’ ABBA albums. “I started to wake up in the morning,” he tells us, “go downstairs to the living room, started to play ABBA music, which was a nightmare for my parents.” We move on to a restaurant in Porto and a conversation over dinner, one that begins with Humberto’s question about the process of becoming a guest on Audio Branding. He in turn shares his process for smoothing out the bumpy road podcast interviews can sometimes take. “I put all the files, the video files and the audio files, in sync and then I'll go through the conversation,” he explains. “If there's a mistake, I will take it. There are tricks that, if there's a cut that I need to make, that I'm able to hide it with some magic sauce, I'll do it.”(0:14:09) - Exploring the Importance of SoundOur next stop is a ride aboard a traditional moliceiro boat in the city of Aveiro, and Humberto talks about what inspired his career and his hopes for the future of sound. “For me,” he explains, “it's to see how far technology can take us, how deep can our knowledge and our...

“And if you have fun with it, that's going to come across and, I think that's the missing piece. That's where I would start. If I was going to really trust an agency or musicians to create something for me, it was, like, how do we have a conversation or multiple conversations to get us to the most fun way of executing this? Because if you're having fun, you're going to come up with something unique. If you're not having fun, you're just going to try and get it out the way as quick as possible, right? If it's just transactional, I don't think anybody really gets to that point of exploring an idea beyond what's written on the paper. Although it's hard to predict what makes a successful Sonic brand, I think it's more about the process that gets you to that place.” – George Holliday This episode is the second half of my conversation with producers, composers, and founders of creative music agency Hear Me Out, George Holliday and Luke Moseley as they share their thoughts on what defines a sonic brand, how AI is reshaping the music and advertising industries, and their message to the next generation of musicians as they grow up in the age of generated content. As always, if you have questions for my guests, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that. (0:00:00) - Creating a Sonic Branding StrategyThe second half of our conversation picks up as Luke shares his thoughts on what makes or breaks an audio brand. “I think, for me, a successful sonic branding strategy is something that has the lowest friction to actually getting to market,” he says, “to showing people the effectiveness of it, and then it can just be developing from there.” “I also think we kind of rely on statistics far too much in the creative phase of doing all of this,” George adds, recalling his marketing experience prior to founding Hear Me Out. “I think when we really understand the brand and you get to have fun with what it is they're about, that's what's going to make the most successful sonic logo for them.”(0:07:31) - Exploring AI's Impact on Music“That's not really what brands are employing us for and having us as partners,” Luke notes as he and George discuss their Hear Me Out clients. “It's for the understanding, it's for the ability to translate their larger goals and their marketing strategy and how music can help elevate that and support it.” Our talk turns to AI and how much it’s impacted the audio industry over the past year or so, and whether machine-generated music might someday replace human artists. “I was thinking about when CGI came into the film industry,” George observes, “and everyone was like, ‘Oh, nobody's gonna go out and make films anymore. We're just gonna hire a studio and make everything in one room.’”(0:12:43) - The Impact of CGI and AIGeorge notes that CGI hasn’t replaced cinematography as much as people expected, partially because movie franchises like Mission: Impossible take pride in their authenticity. “It wasn't CGI,” he says, “because Tom Cruise...

“You know it's the way that news passed between villages before there were any written word, you know, for anything to get around. I think we all know that it's incredibly integral to, initially, to survival, let alone to emotion. You know, if you could wrap important news in memorable melodies, then people were going to be less likely to die back in the day. So, I think there's a part of that within all of us. So yeah, I think you can speak very little of the same language but still be connected instantaneously through music. I guess that’s what my travels have taught me.” – Luke MoseleyThis episode’s guests are a pair of composers and producers who launched creative music agency Hear Me Out because of their frustration with how the traditional agency model removed the musicians from the decision makers. Hear Me Out is now unlocking value for brands with a tool that’s been used for decades but is hugely underutilised today – and that tool is sound.Their names are George Holliday and Luke Moseley, and we’ll be diving into how sound shapes emotion, memory, and connection from music to business. We’ll also hear from them how taking risks, following curiosity, and listening deeply have guided their creative journey. Get ready for a fascinating conversation about the power of sound!As always, if you have questions for my guests, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.(0:00:01) - Musicians' Early Sound Influences and JourneysOur conversation begins with George and Luke’s early memories of sound, and the influences that led them to a career in audio branding. “There was always a piano in the house in all of my family,” George recounts, “with all my family, and we always used to gather around and just sing badly, whether it be at Christmastime or just the weekend.” They share their musical journey, literally in Geroge’s case as he toured Europe by bus, and Luke likewise recalls his early days as an indie musician on the road. “Mine was just going to places to play shows,” Luke explains. “I always just traveled with my longboard skateboard duct-taped to the outside of my guitar case.”(0:08:57) - The Power of Music in CommunicationLuke and George share what their early experiences taught them about music’s power to transcend borders and even language. “You can speak very little of the same language,” Luke says, “but still be connected pretty instantaneously through music. I guess this is what my travels have taught me.” George adds his thoughts about the different cultural directions music has evolved in, and what they have in common. “I think that's why we always, as a species,” he notes, “come back to percussive elements, more so than we come back to melodic elements. I think there's some kind of group feeling about that as well. There's a togetherness with percussion that really makes it work.”(0:14:20) - Creating Music for Brands With PurposeAs the first half of our discussion concludes, George and Luke explain what inspired them as musicians to found their sonic branding agency...

“I have a friend who’s a library film composer and produces podcasts, and I was talking to him, I was giving him the kind of same thesis I talked about today. And he’s like, ‘yeah, I get it. But like, I’m the one who’s going to lose the job.’ Cause what he, this very specific, specified job he has [is] of composing kind of anonymous music for podcasts. And he’s successful, he wrote the theme of Serial, and he’s done a lot of big podcasts in New York Times and NPR and, uh, and he’s like, that’s probably the functional music which employed a lot of composers is probably not going to be needed as much.” – Drew Thurlow This episode is the second half of my conversation with founder of Opening Ceremony Media and author of Machine Music: How AI is Transforming Music’s Next Act Drew Thurlow as we discuss the surprising musical trend Drew foresees as AI becomes more commonplace, the one lesson he always shares with music students when it comes to the future of AI, and the ripple effects that generated audio content and voice clones have already started to have across the music industry. As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that. (0:00:00) - Future of AI in Creative AestheticsWe pick up the conversation as Drew offers his prediction of how AI music, over time, might become as retro and nostalgic as lofi music today. “I have this theory that with all these AI hallucinations that are happening,” he explains, “that’s going to become its own creative aesthetic, and you’re going to start to see the AI vocal models, you know, the early AI vocal models [return].” He shares his observations as a guest lecturer and why he’s optimistic about the next generation’s relationship with AI, and the lesson he always shares with students. “I’d encourage students to have curiosity be your superpower,” he says. “And community is also really, really important. It was really important for me when I was starting out twenty, twenty-five years ago. It’s even more important now, with so much more noise out there and so many more distractions and so much more music and people doing it.”(0:04:43) - Trends in Music Tech StartupsDrew talks about how the industry is evolving as digital media becomes the norm, and the opportunities for AI to increase revenue. “Streaming growth is slowing down,” he tells us. “You know, we’re running out of subscribers in the West and North America, western Europe and North America, and so labels and rights holders and artists are kind of in the mood to count their pennies.” He notes some of the less obvious ways that AI is increasing revenue, such as black box royalty collections and anti-piracy safeguards, and the versatile uses of generated audio content. “Adaptive audio companies [are] using machine learning and generative AI for health,” he says, “also in the gaming environments, which is a big business, where personalized music can adapt to you and your environment. It kind of reads your environment. So those are...

“And we got a new Beatles song. I can’t believe we’re talking about the Beatles…. But John Lennon recorded a really corrupted vocal before he tragically died, and it was just kind of there because of some stem separation tech that is only possible because of machine learning. They were able to clean up the vocals, fully on board with the John Lennon estate and the remaining Beatles members, and there’s a few others, but this is interesting. It’s just, it’s a new way of engaging with audio that people, fans are showing that they really like.” – Drew ThurlowThis episode’s guest is a former professional musician turned music executive and strategist. He served as Senior Vice President of A&R at Sony Music and has held leadership roles at both Pandora and Warner Music. As a graduate of Brown University with a master’s in Technology and Leadership, he blends creative insight with business acumen. His writing has appeared in Billboard, and he remains a sought-after voice on the intersection of music, tech, and innovation. His first book, “Machine Music: How AI is Transforming Music’s Next Act,” will be published in 2026.His name is Drew Thurlow, and he’s also a fellow jury member for the International Sound Awards, which is how we met. As someone on the forefront of music and technology, he has a lot of great advice for sound creatives wanting to make their mark – both now and into the future.As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.(0:00:00) - Evolution of Music Industry and TasteOur conversation starts off with Drew’s early memories of sound and his start as a musician. “I was one of those kids,” he recalls, “who just didn’t have idle time without a guitar in my hands, and I didn’t think too much about it. I wasn’t super self-reflective about it, I just kind of like followed my instincts and continued to do that.” He tells us more about his career journey as a music executive and explains how much the business has changed since he first started out. “There’s the whole influencer thing wrapped up in it,” he says, “and the way people, especially Gen Z and younger millennials, fall in love with personalities and artists is different. It’s not necessarily bad, it’s just different.”(0:12:36) - AI Impact on Music IndustryAs the first half of our discussion wraps up, we turn to the question of whether AI might replace human artists, and Drew offers some surprising statistics. “From our best, really good estimates by places like Deezer and Spotify,” he says, “AI-generated music, even though it’s a measurable percentage of all the songs on [digital service providers], is a third of a percent of the royalty pool, and I just want to reiterate that it is a rounding error. Nobody wants this music.” He shares his thoughts on where AI is heading and some of the ways it might help transform the music industry. “On the business side,” he tells us, “there’s a lot of evidence that these fans want to engage with music in cool and interesting ways, and these AI tech tools allow them

“If you’re watching any video on how to get started on content for your business, for public speaking, anything like that, the microphone is always the number one thing, they say. And that should be a cue. It’s not the phone and it’s not a video camera. They say use your phone to get started, but buy a better mic and there’s a reason that this matters so much to people.” – Nikolaj Kloch This episode is the second half of my conversation with founder of Thrivr Productions Nikolaj Kloch as we discuss what he’s learned firsthand about sound since becoming a videographer, how AI is reshaping the way we use studio sound effects, and his number one on-site audio rule. As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that. (0:00:00) - The Power of Audio BrandingThe second half of our conversation picks up as Nikolaj tells us about some of the lessons he’s had to learn by experience while working with sound, such as the hidden biases that have shaped recording equipment for decades. “Audio hardware and software have been set up for a man’s voice, and I didn’t realize this over the years,” he notes. “I had no idea about that, and there’s a lot of intricacies like that which are just out in the industry that have been left over for a hundred years now, and you don’t think how that ties back to history until you dive into it.” He tells us how he incorporates AI into his workflow and where he sees it taking the future of audio/video editing. “I think that’s going to make incredible videography work,” he explains. “I think it’s going to add another layer that you still need people behind it, I think we always will, but… it’s going to be a great tool for us to have.”(0:14:05) - The Impact of Quality AudioAs our conversation comes to a close, Nikolaj shares his strategy for demonstrating the value of sound to skeptical clients. “Just showing them the difference between well-planned audio and something that is just basic, sounds bad, filmed with an iPhone that they’re holding to their mouth and things like that,” he says. “If you show them the side-by-side, I think that’s the easiest way to show them that the transformation is there.” He talks about his latest projects and how listeners can get in touch, and tells us what opened his eyes to the power of sound. “If you could sit down and watch a single video that shows the before and after,” he says, “it changed my view on audio entirely, and it’s something that I always have... when I show these budgets to public speakers, conferences or businesses.” Episode SummaryThe importance of choosing – and properly setting up – the right audio equipment,How sound empowers everything from shaping a narrative to capturing brand synergy. Connect with the Audio Branding Podcast:Book your project with Voice Overs and Vocals by visiting...

“If you don’t make the video with audio in mind first, that’s the difference between, you know, a 14% click-through rate versus, you know, a 2% click-through rate. And a lot of people don’t tie those two together, that it matters. It’s something that people should be focusing on with a lot of time and energy.” – Nikolaj KlochThis week’s guest is a videographer, content creator, and former aerospace engineer who helps speakers, entrepreneurs, and brands elevate their presence using impactful video that actually delivers. With a background in both engineering and creative production, he brings a rare mix of precision and artistry to his work, and he’s worked with speakers from TEDx stages to Fortune 500 boardrooms, helping them stand out, connect with audiences, and grow their influence.His name is Nikolaj Kloch, and he’s passionate about the power of sound and its impact on visuals. Stay tuned as he shares his insights on why audio isn’t just important – it’s essential. As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that. (0:00:00) - The Power of Audio in MarketingAs we start off our discussion, Nikolaj recalls one of his first memories of sound, a Lego commercial his brother starred in when they were children. “They actually had to bring in a mic and he just hit the blocks over and over to get the sound crumbling,” he recalls. “And you know, you don’t put those together as a kid until you get older, but I can always hear those blocks crumbling.” He shares how his background as an aerospace engineer took a surprising turn towards audio production, and the common threads between the two. “A lot of people think they don’t translate as much,” he explains, “but it’s one of those things where, you know, audio is a great example of the nitty gritty. There are specific engineers that dive into this every single day, and spend nothing else for their time.”(0:09:12) - Mastering Precision Audio RecordingWe talk about precision audio, just what that phrase really means, and the extensive background that getting the most out of audio can require. “It’s kind of like Picasso saying he won’t sell his little picture on his napkin because he’s taken so much time learning this,” Nikolaj says. “And I feel like that directly ties into this, because it’s really precision. You know they have to line up perfectly.” As the first half of our talk wraps up, Nikolaj shares how he aims to create the ideal environment for an on-site recording and how he helps clients work around some less-than-ideal ones. “I’m going to be reusing this over and over,” he says. “So I’m always like, please, let me at least talk to them and see what their setup is, let’s dive into it a bit. They usually get a little annoyed, but it makes a big difference.” Episode SummaryHow videographer Nikolaj Kloch transitioned from aerospace engineering to sound design.Nikolaj’s work with precision audio, from live recordings to film...

“[What] a lot of sonic branding agencies aren’t aware of is that sonic branding can also be used as a tool to address a concern that the client might have. So, for example, a new competitor has come in and now they feel dated. Okay, let’s write a sonic branding that’s based around being modern. Okay, they’ve had a big knock on trust, like I mentioned before, with a data breach. This is a great opportunity to write a sonic branding that builds customer trust. So, it can be used as another mode along with your visuals, along with your tone of voice. Your branding tone of voice is in, like, the words that are spoken, not the like the language, right? It’s a tool to convey your brand.” – Dr. Thomas Dickson This episode is the second half of my conversation with musicologist and sonic branding strategist Dr. Thomas Dickson as he shares his thoughts on maintaining a long-term branding, the growing use of AI for everything from monitoring to mock-ups, and the versatility of an effective sonic logo. As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that. (0:00:01) - Impact of Sonic Branding VariationsMy conversation with Dr. Dickson picks up as we talk about the challenge of maintaining a consistent audio brand through changing management and brand strategies. “They might not even have been strategically sonic branding,” he notes. “It could have just been some brand music that they turned into a mnemonic or brand music they’ve just been using for years, and then a brand manager will come in and just throw out everything.” He points out McDonald’s as a prime example of an audio brand that’s only gotten stronger over the past twenty-five years, and how consistency has been its key to success. “It’s a really good case study for sonic branding agencies to look at,” he says, “how you can take a mnemonic [and] use it in, there’s videos on YouTube where it’s, like, using like thirty different contexts, and it’s just changed instrumentation slightly, changed the speed, [and] added swing .”(0:07:38) - Sonic Branding Evolution and ImpactDr. Dickson tells us about his worth with agencies that are increasingly turning to AI for solutions, especially when it comes to catching online plagiarism. “They are using AI to identify melodies that are shared and then taking them to court once the melody’s been used sufficiently,” he cautions. “Day one, a song comes out, they don’t take them to court. They wait till the song is a massive hit and it’s got enough revenue, and then they take them to court.” We discuss AI’s growing presence in everything from audio mastering and editing to generating new music, and he points out some of the roles he sees it filling over time. “I’m imagining in the future there will be the option to take a track,” he explains, “and then just [have AI] re-tailor it to that context and stretch it out so that, for the conference that goes for two hours, there’s appropriate backing music based on your sonic branding.”(0:16:24) - Future of...

“If you imagine a company has a ten million dollar marketing budget, right? And then you imagine they have a sonic logo on every single TikTok ad, Facebook ad, YouTube ad, all these new media where the majority of the traffic’s coming from now. If they can increase conversion rates marginally, they can have a huge difference to their bottom line. And it’s one of those things where, because sonic branding, once it’s done, once, and, well, yes, there might be a brand refresh where it’s changed in ten years, um, or it’s updated, or maybe it’s changed slightly to work with a different culture, right? There might be like a version which sounds slightly more Canadian, right? Or more Christmasy, or things like that. But the point being is this is an asset that they develop once, and then it can be used on these campaigns that can have huge advertising budgets, which makes it very cheap when you compare it to the actual campaign marketing spend.” – Dr. Thomas Dickson My guest on this episode is a musicologist who specializes in how we perceive sound and how it shapes brand communication. With a PhD in Music Psychology, he helps brands create emotionally resonant and research-backed sonic identities. His work reduces subjectivity, improves creative decisions, and even addresses legal risks like plagiarism in audio branding.His name is Dr. Thomas Dickson, and he’s advised national retailers, tech firms, and service brands throughout his career. And, as if the subject of musicology isn’t fascinating enough, we’ll also be discussing how businesses can make sure their sound stays original and protected. As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that. (0:00:00) - The Power of Sound in AdvertisingOur discussion begins with a look back at Dr. Dickson’s early memories of sound, and he came prepared with a more recent, but still memorable, experience that demonstrated the power of sound. “By the grand finale,” he recalls as he describes an outdoor concert featuring the Melbourne Symphonic Orchestra, “it’s a bucketing down, raining and everyone’s still there. So we’ve got this huge event, it’s bucketing down, raining, [and] no one’s leaving because they want to hear the finale.” He tells us more about musicology, what it means, and how it can help build a stronger brand. “Musicology is like the academic and rigorous study of music,” he explains. “It comes down to a broad range of different styles, so this could be like music history, it could be music psychology, which is what I looked at, the psychology of music or sound, [or] it could be ethnomusicology.”(0:09:05) - Musicology and Plagiarism in Sonic BrandingDr. Dickson tells us about the different dimensions of musicology and how sound influences us, such as musical expectancy and episodic memory, and how much our impression of sound comes from the media we consume. “We have cultural norms associated with electronic music,” he explains, “digital sounds, hard hitting bass, all that kind of stuff that we

“And they had people that had either the escalator going up on the right-hand side or you could take the stairs, and each stair played a different key on the piano. More people took the stairs than they did the escalators because it was more fun. So, they did something they hadn't done before that was better for them. So, it all wraps up beautifully, and was such a fun campaign. And again, it didn't have to cost a lot of money. They didn't do many of those piano stairs. And it's that old thing, or the new thing that we try and do now, [which] is ‘experienced by few, seen by many.’ And you see it all the time, you know, you do one small little activation that really doesn't have to cost a lot of money, but you film it beautifully, put a good track to it, you make sure it gets shared correctly. And all of a sudden, you've got a hit.” – Darren Borrino This episode is the second half of my conversation with executive creative director of Inkfish NYC Darren Borrino as we talk about building the foundation of an effective sonic brand, how digital tools and the internet age have redefined the strategies, development, and time frame of an ad campaign, and the growing value of authenticity in a world where AI content is becoming the norm. As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that. (0:00:00) - Global Advertising Culture Differences and CampaignsThe second half of our conversation begins as Darren and I talk about his work all around the world, from his home in South Africa to Prague, Australia, and eventually the U.S. “The biggest culture shock I got was actually coming to New York,” he says. “Although I'm South African, my parents are British, so I was brought up on British comedy like quite sarcastic, quite dry, quite undertone.” We discuss the one ad campaign he wishes he’d written, and an inventively musical approach Denmark took to encouraging drivers to slow down: a melody based on the driver’s speed. “If you went too fast, it became annoying,” he explains. “We've all had kids in the car before. Everybody wants to slow down and just enjoy it, and there's no reason to race. So you may as well just enjoy the track.(0:05:20) - Innovative Sound Marketing CampaignsWe talk about what’s changed in the advertising world in recent years, and how even a seemingly successful marketing strategy can have unintended consequences for a brand. “That's going to reposition the brand in the market,” he tells us. “But if you don't have a full perspective of where everything is, you could accidentally position that brand right next to a competitor that will easily outspend them.” Darren talks about the impact of such AI tools as Midjourney in his agency, its uses and limitations, and the unlikely sounds of inspiration all around us “I can guarantee you nine times out of ten,” he says, “it's when you're cycling home, or when you're washing your dog at home, or you're out with a friend having coffee. You'll see something happen, you'll go, ‘wait a minute....