Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy

Defeat Perfectionism  and Discover the Art of Self-Acceptance Part 1 of 2 This Is for Everyone--Shrinks AND the General Public! On Wednesday, July 9, 2025, Dr. Jill Levitt and I did a FREE, two-hour webinar on one of the most common causes of stress and feelings of inadequacy--perfectionism. More than 2200 individuals registered, reflecting the widespread interest in this topic. Although perfectionism causes lots of suffering, it’s not easy to get rid of this mindset because it can promise and sometimes deliver tremendous benefits, too! Rhonda and I will be presenting this webinar on the podcast in two parts. This week, in Part 1 you’ll learn About the many emotional consequences of perfectionism How to identify the perfectionistic beliefs that fuel anxiety, procrastination, and shame How and why these beliefs can trigger immense emotional pain How to use Positive Reframing and the Cost-Benefit Analysis to melt away your resistance to change. You can take a look at the workshop handout if you CLICK HERE! Next week, in Part 2, you’ll learn many powerful methods to crush the distorted thoughts that trigger perfectionism, including Identify the Distortions Explain the Distortions The Externalization of Voices The Acceptance Paradox The Counter-Attack Technique The Feared Fantasy Technique Self-Disclosure Relapse Prevention Training And more! This live, practical training will equip you with powerful, research-backed techniques to help yourself and your clients transform perfectionism into peace, power, self-acceptance, and emotional freedom, all illustrated with dramatic video clips from an actual TEAM CBT session with a woman struggling mightily from brutal self-criticisms, self-doubt, and sleepless nights, due to the very perfectionism that has catapulted her into an incredible career. Thanks for listening today! Jill, David and Rhonda

TEAM for Troubled Couples A New Twist! Today we are joined by a favorite guest, the brilliant Thai-An Truong. Thai-An is a Licensed Professional Counselor (LPC) and Alcohol and Drug Counselor (LADC). She is the first Certified TEAM-CBT Therapist and Trainer in Oklahoma. She has found TEAM-CBT to be life-changing professionally and personally and is passionate about training other therapists in this “awesome approach.” In her private practice, Thai-An specializes in the treatment of trauma and OCD. To learn more about her TEAM-CBT Trainings, visit www.teamcbttraining.com Thai-An has been featured on many Feeling Good Podcasts focusing on Depression and social anxiety (Live demonstration, 187) Postpartum Depression and Anxiety ( 218) How to Get Laid (Ep. 264) OCD ( 283) Grief (Ep 344) Now Thai-An adds an important dimension to the TEAM Interpersonal Model—working with trouble couples, as opposed to working with individuals with troubled relationships. She also describes a new way to use Positive Reframing to reduce patient resistance to giving up David’s famous list of “Common Communication Errors,” and she adds five new errors to the list. At the start of the podcast, Thai-An described a woman who complained that her husband often “shuts down” when they are communicating about a sensitive topic, and she wondered why. Thai-An decided to invite him to join the session so his wife could find out why. This really opened things up, and the wife discovered that her husband shut down because he was feeling inadequate when she pointed out all the things that were wrong with the house, and he was taking her comments as criticism. However, the more he shut down, the more she complained, and this pushed him away even further since her criticisms intensified his feelings of inadequacy. Thai-An then used Positive Reframing to help her see why he shut down. One of Thai-An’s new ideas was to use Positive Reframing to cast our list of “errors” on the “Bad Communication Checklist” in a positive light, just as we do with the negative thoughts and feelings of people who are using the Daily Mood Log. By siding with the patient’s resistance and listing all the good reasons NOT to change, nearly all patients paradoxically let down their guard and powerful urges to oppose change. Instead, they open up and become receptive to the many methods for challenging distorted thoughts. Thai-An has observed the same phenomena with troubled couples. When they see the GOOD reasons to why they or their partners use dysfunctional ways of communicating, they paradoxically let down their guard and become more willing to use the Five Secrets of Effective Communication. She says: Positive reframing started to open them up to each other, and helped them see each other in a more positive light. At the same time, they discovered that they shared the same values. Voicing the good reasons to maintain the communication errors as well as the cost of change (e.g., it’ll be hard work, I’ll have to focus on changing myself, it’ll be vulnerable) allowed each partner to melt away their resistance to change. David comment: This is an excellent example of a “double paradox.” Once again, instead of trying to “help,” which often triggers intense resistance, the therapist sides with the resistance, and this paradoxically triggers strong motivation to change! Thai-An reminded us that it’s important to go through the TEAM structure before moving forward with tools to help the couple change. For testing, she asks both partners to complete the version of David’s Brief Mood Survey that includes the Relationship Satisfaction Scale, and asks both to complete the Evaluation of Therapy Session at the end. She makes sure both partners rate her empathy toward them at 20/20 (perfect scores) before proceeding to the next steps. During the Assessment of Resistance, she begins to work with David’s Relationship Journal to get a specific moment in time of conflict. Then when they do Steps 3 and 4, where they identify their own communication errors and their impact on their partners, she does positive reframing of the bad communication errors, which you can see here, along with five new errors that Thai-An has listed below.   The Bad Communication Checklist* Instructions. Review what you wrote down in Step 2 of the Relationship Journal. How many of the following communication errors can you spot? Communication Error (ü) Communication Error (ü) 1.      Truth – You insist you're "right" and the other person is "wrong."   10.   Diversion – You change the subject or list past grievances.   2.      Blame – You imply the problem is the other person's fault.   11.   Self-Blame – You act as if you're awful and terrible.   3.      Defensiveness – You argue and refuse to admit any imperfection.   12.   Hopelessness – You claim you've tried everything and nothing works.   4.      Martyrdom – You imply that you're an innocent victim.   13.   Demandingness – You complain when people aren’t as you expect.   5.      Put-Down – You imply that the other person is a loser.   14.   Denial – You imply that you don't feel angry, sad or upset when you do.   6.      Labeling – You call the other person "a jerk," "a loser," or worse.   15.   Helping – Instead of listening, you give advice or "help."   7.      Sarcasm – Your tone of voice is belittling or patronizing.   16.   Problem Solving – You try to solve the problem and ignore feelings.   8.      Counterattack – You respond to criticism with criticism.   17.   Mind-Reading – You expect others to know how you feel without telling them.   9.      Scapegoating – You imply the other person is defective or has a problem.   18.   Passive-Aggression – You say nothing, pout or slam doors.     * Copyright ã 1991 by David D. Burns, MD. Revised 2001.   Thai-An Truong’s 5 Additional Communication Errors: Shut down—You shut down and ignore the other person or give them the silent treatment. Avoidance—You hide your feelings and avoid talking about hard topics, or disconnect through some form of escape. Rejection—You make threats to leave – “I’m done with you,” or “I can’t deal with this anymore,” or “I want a divorce.” Control—You insist that the other person “needs” to behave or communicate differently, or “should” or “shouldn’t” behave the way they do. Invalidation—You tell the other person they shouldn’t feel the way they feel. Here’s how Thai-An did the Positive Reframing with this couple. First she asked the wife, “Why might your partner suddenly want to “shut down” and stop communicating during a conflicted exchange?” She also asked, “What does this do for the person who is shutting down?” This is the list of positives they came up with. Shutting down . . . Keeps me safe and protects me from more criticism Protects my partner from hurtful comments I might make. Shows that I value our marriage and my partner’s feelings. Shows my love for my partner, and for myself. It shows that I’m feeling hurt and want to be appreciated. Guarantees that I won’t make things worse. Shows that I want to protect myself from becoming overly vulnerable and getting invalidated again. Shutting down feels less risky than sharing my feelings. Once she saw why he shut down, she realized the negative impact of her complaints, and began to provide more genuine words of appreciation to him. He said that this meant so much to him and made all the hard work worth it. Her common communication errors included “truth” and “making complaints.” He realized, again through positive reframing, that she also wanted validation, that raising children can be hard, and that she ALSO wanted appreciation for how well she was keeping up with the home and the care of their children. So, when she wasn’t getting validation and appreciation from him, she was even more likely to complain to try to voice her perspective. Once he was able to stop shutting down, and instead began to make more disarming statements, use feeling empathy, and stroking, she was much less likely to complain. They also realized they had the same values of wanting healthier communication and to provide a safe and happy home for their children. Was this effective? Both went from 10/30 and 11/30 on the relationship satisfaction scale (shockingly poor scores) to 26/30 by the end of the relationship work together (extremely high scores indicating outstanding scores on my Relationship Satisfaction Scale.) Thai-An provided us with a cool Positive Reframing document for all of the communication errors. You can check it out if you CLICK HERE. I (David) pointed out that Positive Reframing can also be used in conjunction with the Relationship Journal in another way. In step one of the RJ, you write down one thing the other person said, and you circle all the many feelings they were probably having, like hurt, alone, anxious, angry, sad, unloved, and many more. In step two you write down exactly what you said next, and circle all the feelings you were having. This would be an ideal time to do Positive Reframing of your partner’s negative feelings, so as to shift you perception that the other person is “bad” or “to blame” or some negative interpretations that you may be making. This reframing might be helpful in the same sense that my technique, Forced Empathy, can sometimes cause a radical shift in how you see the person you’re at odds with. Announcements On January 4, 2024, Thai-An Truong will be offering a 14-week training program in TEAM couples therapy for mental health professionals. The class will meet weekly from 11:30 to 1:30 East Coast time. To learn more, please go to Courses.teamcbttraining.com/relationships There will be a 4-day TEAM-CBT Intensive November 6-9, 2023, in Mexico City, at the Hotel Camino Real.  To learn more, please go to:  https://teamcbt.mx/welcome Thanks for listening today! Let us know what you thought about our show! Thai-An, Rhonda, and David

Menopause-- The End? . . . or the Beginning? Rhonda starts today’s podcast, as usual, with a warm endorsement from Sally, a podcast fan who really liked Podcast 355 on the topic of “Relationship Problems: Be Gone!” She said the role-play demonstrations were “incredible” and especially helpful. We’ll keep that in mind and see if we can do some more role-playing demonstrations in future podcasts, along with instructions so you can practice at home, as well. This can be extremely helpful if you want to master the techniques we describe. They may sound simple, but they’re not! In our recent podcast on free practice groups (put LINK), you can find many virtual practice groups you can join from home to practice many of the techniques in TEAM-CBT with like-minded colleagues and become part of the growing TEAM-CBT community. We now have many excellent and free practice groups for the general public as well as and training groups for shrinks. Today, Mina returns to the show with a new problem—pre-menopausal symptoms that are scaring her and casting a shadow on her future as well as her marriage with her husband, Maurice. Menopause is a topic that freaks many people out, due to feelings of anxiety and shame which can sometimes be intense. Today, menopause will be out in the open and front and center. However, Meina is confused because so many problems and feelings are swirling around in her head, and she doesn’t quite know where to start. At the start of the session, Mina's Brief Mood Survey indicated mild depression, severe anxiety, moderate to severe anger, and greatly diminished feelings of happiness and relationship satisfaction, thinking of her husband, Maurice.f If you review Mina’s Daily Mood Log. you can see that the Upsetting Event is irregular periods due to menopause. You can also see that Mina is struggling with fairly feelings of depression, anxiety, shame, inadequacy, loneliness, embarrassment, hopelessness, frustration and anger, and she’s giving herself some intensely negative messages, like “My body is falling apart,” and “My husband will leave me,” and “I’ll get osteoporosis and die in pain like my grandmother,” and more. During the initial Empathy phase of the session, Mina described quite a lot of personal and professional concerns, as well as somatic complaints of various kinds. Sometimes, in the past, Mina has developed numerous somatic complaints that terrify her, because she has interpreted them as possible serious diseases, like multiple sclerosis. However, excellent physical evaluations rarely or never provide any medical evidence or explanation for her symptoms. This pattern of obsessing about somatic symptoms is actually quite common. Many general practice doctors report that as many as a third of their patients complaining of pain, dizziness, and so forth do not have any medical disease that could possibly explain the symptoms. In fact, in his classic book, Caring for Patients, the late Dr. Allen Barbour from Stanford reported that about half of these types of patients experience a disappearance of their somatic symptoms when they identify some conflict or problem that they've been avoiding, and then take steps to express their feelings or solve the repressed problem. Pretty much every time, this has been true of Mina, too. It often turns out that she is upset about something she is sweeping under the rug, and the Hidden Emotion Technique has proved extremely helpful in pinpointing the hidden feeling or conflict. Then, as soon as she acts on this information, and expresses her feelings, the somatic problems immediately disappear. So, our first task in today's session was to see if the same thing was happening. It turned out that she was quite upset with her husband, Maurice, so we did a Relationship Journal to see if we could get a better understanding of what was going on. Her complaint was that Maurice did not want to talk about “difficult feelings.” Instead, he suggests they go for a nature walk or watch a movie. So, she felt sad, anxious, rejected, hurt, frustrated, and alone. But, as is the case nearly 100% of the time, when we examined a brief interaction between them—what did he say and what did she say next—it became clear that she was actually pushing him away and putting him down. This was understandably painful for Mina to see, and a bit embarrassing, but she was super brave, and saw how she could use the Five Secrets to respond to Maurice in a radically different and more inviting manner. As an aside, the person who seeks treatment for a relationship problem will nearly always discover that they have actually be causing the very problem they’re complaining about. If Mina’s husband had come to us for help, he would have made the exact same shocking discovery—that HE was causing the problem he was complaining about. I call this strange but fascinating phenomenon the “theory of interpersonal relativity.” Mina feared abandonment, but discovered that her real problem was that she was rejecting her husband, and forcing him to reject her! Although this type of sudden insight can be tremendously painful, it is also liberating at the same time. That's because people discover that they have far more power than they thought. Mina felt helpless, but was actually pulling the strings. Once you “see” this, you have the option of moving in a radically new and more rewarding direction. Mina promised to send a follow up once she’s had the chance to try a new approach during her interactions with Maurice. We have our fingers crossed! In addition, we worked with Mina's negative thoughts and feelings on her Daily Mood Log, starting with Positive Reframing, which she found helpful. What did her negative thoughts and feelings show about her that was positive and awesome, and how were they helping her? Then we did several rounds of Externalization of Voices and she was quickly able to knock her negative thoughts out of the park, with incredible results that you can see if you examine the emotions goal and outcome columns on her emotions table HERE. As you can see, there was an immediate and dramatic reduction in all of her negative feelings. We publish these TEAM-CBT sessions because we believe that the vast majority of mental health professionals do not know how to trigger rapid and extreme changes in how people think, feel, and interact with others. It is our hope that these podcast live therapy sessions, in conjunction with our weekly training groups, will make mental health professionals aware of what’s now possible, and how TEAM-CBT actually works. We try to make it look simple, but it requires tremendous training, practice, and commitment. Rhonda and I have strong, tender feelings toward our dear colleague, Mina, and we are deeply indebted to her for making herself vulnerable in a public forum so that we can all learn and feel much closer to one another. Personal work is one of our finest teaching tools. In addition, feelings of respect, love, and connection are so often missing in our embattled and hostile political and world environment these days. We cannot change the world, but we can definitely make our own small ripples in the pond, and work on changing ourselves. If you'd like, you can take a look at Mina's Brief Mood Survey and Evaluation of Therapy Session at the end of the session.  Thanks so much for listening today! Rhonda, Mina, and David

Ask David: Featuring Matt May, MD 1. Nick asks: “What if you want a positive relationship with someone who does not want the same thing?” 2. Debbie asks: Hi David, I can't stop ruminating and obsessing about weird states of minds or when I was afraid of harming someone or remembering. Everyone says to let go but why do I hang on. Where in your book can you help me? 3. Dean asks: I’m having trouble sleeping. What should I do? 4. Kathy asks a question about social anxiety / panic and the hidden emotion technique. Note: The answers below were generated prior to the podcast, and the information provided on the live podcast may be richer and different in a number of ways. 1. Nick asks many general relationship problems that all need specific examples. Dear David, Thank you for all the amazing work you do. Your books and podcasts have helped me to understand and start to transform a lot of negative and unwanted frames that I carry around. I'm also working with a Level 3 therapist who I found through the Feeling Good Institute. One area I'm working on is building my empathy skills using the Five Secrets model. I see how powerful it is in situations where both people are open to a positive relationship. But I struggle with the idea that each of us creates our own interpersonal reality, and can always create a positive outcome regardless of the other person. Can you help me understand how to apply the technique to some challenging situations? - What happens if you want a positive relationship with the other person, but they fundamentally do not? I find that this situation leads the other person to react to the Five Secrets with anger or indifference. Or they view you as weak for exposing your emotions and vulnerability, and try to exploit them for advantage over you. Is it even worth trying to have a positive relationship with such a person? David’s reply I try not to impose on people who do not want a positive relationship with me. You could also provide a specific example, as I always insist on having! These vague questions to my ear are kind of useless. Matt’s reply David, you’ve said that the cause of all relationship problems is Blame.  I agree with this and sense that Nick’s question is driving at that point, as well.  If someone doesn’t want to participate in our definition of a ‘positive’ relationship, the approach that is most in line with the 5-Secrets and Empathy is to let go and stop demanding the other person change.  That’s the cause of the problem:  trying to force people to do things, our way, regardless of what they want.  This will cause them to resist and will damage the relationship. David, you have also talked about the opposite mindset of blame, where we can wield 5-Secrets honestly and effectively, the concept of ‘Open Hands’.  When we have the attitude of ‘Open Hands’, we can welcome other people and receive them or gracefully let go. This mental state avoids conflict and the ‘blame game’ in a healthy, non-avoidant way. For example, if someone says, “I don’t want to have a relationship with you”.  We might reply, using the 5-Secrets, ‘You’re right, I’ve been disrespectful and inappropriately pushing you too hard in the direction of having a relationship with me.  I appreciate your letting me know, clearly, that this isn’t something you want.  While I can imagine you might be angry with me, I’m sure you don’t want to talk about that, but prefer, instead, to end the relationship as quickly as possible.  I’m feeling awkward and would like to get out of your hair as soon as possible, too.  What can I do to facilitate ending this relationship in a way you would be satisfied with?” To put it another way, while you can maximize your chances of having a positive interpersonal experience with someone, using these communication skills, the 5-Secrets, they are not ‘mind control’ and trying to use them that way will only make matters worse, hence the importance of the internal mindset of ‘open hands’, accepting others’ preferences and being willing to let go, perhaps grieve, refocus our attention elsewhere, if that’s not what they want.  Otherwise, we are in the ‘chasing’ and ‘blaming’ role, which is doomed to fail, as has been discussed on previous podcasts. It may also be useful to consider whether it’s actually possible to ‘not have a relationship’ with someone.  My sense is that there is, in fact, a relationship, even between total strangers and between people who have decided, mutually, to end their relationship.  We could point out how those two types of relationships might differ, say, if you were to bump into each other in a grocery store.  In the latter example, you might be expected to try a bit harder to avoid contact, with an agreed-upon, ‘ex’ than you would, with a stranger.  There are rules and expectations and ways in which both people think about the other person and define their ‘relationship’, even if you are saying that it has ‘ended’.  The conflict comes when we don’t have the same agenda and don’t agree on the terms and rules of the relationship. There are many other related topics, including the ‘gentle ultimatum’, ‘interpersonal decision making’ and ‘blame CBA’ which could be useful for Nick. Nick continues - What if you believe the other person does have a fundamental desire for a good relationship, but they are so attached to their anger, fear or depression that their only reaction is hostility and defense? Perhaps such a person can't or won't admit to their emotions, and rejects the empathy. Should you keep trying, and at what point if any should you give up? David’s reply Need a specific example! I may have mentioned that! Matt’s reply:  A specific example sure would help!  The problem seems related to the ‘blame game’ which we just talked about.  We are demanding the other person change, and stop being so hostile and defensive.  Instead, consider using Interpersonal Decision Making and look at the three options that are available, in any relationship.  If you decide to take responsibility for the relationship, try the Relationship Journal, so you can see through the blame that is causing the problem.  You could also use positive reframing to admire their hostility, defensiveness, anger, fear and depression. Nick continues: Perhaps there are mistaken or lying about the facts, and unwilling to admit it. Or you disbelieve what they say because it doesn't match their actions or is calculated to deflect blame. For example, you may have a conflict over who cleans the house. The objective fact is that you do this 80% of the time and have done it the last 5 times in a row, while the other person has consistently left garbage lying around. Yet the other person says "I feel like you never do housework and I am always the one cleaning, and I'm sick of it". How can you find truth in such a statement? David’s reply Work this out on a Relationship Journals. Write down what you said next, and follow th steps clearly spelled out in Feeling Good Together. Or, I could send you one. Matt’s Reply Disarming is really challenging because it requires us to let go of our version of the ‘truth’, at least temporarily, in order to see the other person’s truth.  People often don’t want to do that, even for a moment!  Furthermore, if the other person is angry, they are likely to distort the truth in their statements, for effect, to be more persuasive.  The problem with this, is that it will call our attention to the lies they are telling, tempting us away from seeing their truth.  Without knowing more about the situation, I could only guess at what their ‘truth’ is.  Here are some possibilities, though:  Is it possible that they have some reasonable expectation for us to do more of the cleanup than them?  Are they offering something else in the relationship that offsets their lack of cleaning?  Do they do the majority of the cooking?  Do they do the shopping?  Do they pay more of the bills?  Also, were they the last one to do the cleaning?  When they clean, do they spend more time on it or do a more thorough job?  When they clean, do they clean up their things as well as yours?  Do you do that?  You stated that they leave their ’garbage lying around’.  Is that how they see it?  Is it possible that they put their things precisely where they wanted them to be and didn’t want you ‘tidying up’? The point is that disarming requires seeing the bigger picture, not just the one data point that best supports your blaming them.  Try to see past this and, if you can’t, considering Interpersonal Decision making and the Blame CBA, where you would write down the good reasons to blame the other person and insist that your version of the truth is complete and correct and that theirs is wrong and bad. Nick carries on - What should you do in situations where you both have attachments to other incompatible goals? In Lee's case on episodes 96-98 of your podcast and Chapter 27 of Feeling Great, both Less and his wife had the same fundamental values with regard to raising their daughter. So once he applied the Five Secrets, they were able to move past their ego defenses and share the same perspective. But what if there is a zero-sum situation where both of you have different core values? For example, choosing a grade school for your child. One parent sincerely believes in their core values that their child will benefit from attending a rigorous school where they will be challenged and grow. The other parent sincerely believes in their core values that children should be in a relaxed environment where they can play as much as possible. Can the Five Secrets help with this type of conflict? David’s reply Read the chapter in Feeling Good Together on the idea that the attempt to solve the problem IS the problem, and the refusal to solve it is the solution. I think you’ve got some work to do! Now we’ll see if you do it! Matt’s Response In this case, you could agree to disagree and let a professional decide what would be best for your

 The 2025 Feeling Good Podcast Survey Featuring Sevde Kalidiroglu, Director of Marketing, Feeling Great app This is the third survey of our podcast fans since the first podcast was broadcast on October 27, 2016, and the most recent was roughly five years ago. Our awesome Director Marketing at the Feeling Great app conducted the survey and prepared the report which you can review if you CLICK HERE Essentially, we wanted to know a little bit about who you are and why you listen, and what you like the most, and least, and what kinds of changes you'd like to see. 183 of you graciously completed the survey. Thanks! We discussed many of the findings on the podcast, and you can click the link above for the full report, but here are just a few highlights: Roughly 1/4 of you are mental health professionals, and 3/4 are general public. Men and women were represented equally. 60% of you are from the US, and 40% of you are international listeners. The age range is heavily tilted toward the older generation, with 66% of you above 50 years of age, and not a single podcast fan less than 20 years old! And why do you listen? Nearly 90% of you are listening to improve your emotional well-being. This was great to hear, and consistent with the many emails I receive describing the help so many of you have gotten from the podcast. In fact, one recent podcast fan fired their therapist due to lack of progress, having made much more progress from listening to the podcast. Many of you listen in order to learn TEAM CBT techniques, including therapists who want to improve their clinical skills as well as individuals who want to learn techniques they can use in their daily lives. Other reasons for listening include: Improve my own emotional well-being 87.1% Learn therapy techniques 57.9% Learn about mental health topics 53.4% Support friends/family 49.4% Entertainment 20.2%“ One respondent wrote: "The podcast helps me apply tools to real-life problems that day—whether loneliness, meaning, or mood swings.” If you click on the survey, you'll find a plethora of interesting findings, clearly presented. Rhonda and I are grateful to you, Sevde, for compiling this information, and we are all very grateful to you, our loyal fans, for sticking with us all these years! We will try hard to be mindful of the take-home messages at the end, which included: Key Recommendations 1. Keep Live Therapy and How-To episodes front and center 2. Reduce episode length & polish editing 3. Bridge podcast and app more clearly (especially in the U.S.) 4. Refresh branding and improve accessibility 5. Add diversity in guest speakers and clinical styles 6. Prioritize topics like perfectionism, trauma, resistance, and self-defeating beliefs 7. Keep posting webinar recordings as podcast episodes Thanks for listening today! Sevde, Rhonda, and David

#467 Ask David-- How can I help my elderly, demanding grandma? How can I empathize with hostile political figures? The answers to today’s questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Today’s questions. Brittany says that her elderly grandmother has become very needy and demanding, and that her mom finds grandmother’s behavior irritating. She wants to know how she can help her mom / grandmom. Jenny asks: How do we empathize with people we are extremely angry with, including prominent political figures?   Brittany says that her elderly grandmother has become very needy and demanding, and that her mom finds grandmother’s behavior irritating. Brittany wants to know how she can help her mom / grandmom. Hi Dr. Burns, A few months ago my grandma fell down her stairs and broke some ribs. She was in a nursing home for a short while since she needed physical therapy and assistance doing daily tasks. Before the accident, she lived alone and was completely independent. During her recovery, she pretty much had round the clock visitors. More than any other person in the nursing home. My grandma complained constantly and anytime someone would say “you look good” or “you seem to be doing better” she would very quickly respond with how terrible she feels etc. Having listened to your podcast on how to deal with complainers, I could see it was because nobody was acknowledging her feelings. They just wanted to say things to cheer her up. She is now recovered and back home, but she refuses to do things on her own again that she is capable of and the doctor cleared her to do. She has a terrible attitude and is constantly calling up family members and her friends to run errands for her. Example: my mom picked up some lettuce she asked for her. Then my grandma called her friend to go get her one afterwards, saying the one my mom bought was too small. She acts completely ungrateful. She texted me that she has been so lonely with no visitors but then my mom tells me that is not true. That she has had people coming over every day and taking her places. My mom is at her wits end dealing with her demanding attitude and ungratefulness. I know Jill had an example before where her mom was saying how hard things are and nobody is there for her and Jill used the five secrets. This situation feels a little different. How can my mom get her life back and get my grandma to do things on her own again? -Brittany David’s reply Hi Brittany, How about including this as another Ask David? One problem, as I see it, is that your mom is not asking David for help. So I could only help you with your response to your mom, acknowledging how difficult things are for her. In other words, use the Five Secrets of Effective Communication. Of course, this assumes you want help with your interaction with your mom. It can be hard not to "HELP" when a loved one, like grandma, AND your mom, are suffering and struggling. Sadly, I have learned that trying to help third parties is not satisfying or effective most of the time. But modifying the way I interact with people is almost always helpful. Don't know if this make sense. Certainly we can see what Matt and Rhonda have to add / suggest. Warmly, david Brittany’s response to David: Sure, I think it would be a great ask David. I would be interested in your approach if it were my mom asking you for help. What would you tell her and what your five secrets approach might be. -Brittany David’s response: I always prefer have a specific example to a hypothetical question. I can only help you with YOUR responses to your mom, or to anyone. Can you give an example of something she has said to you that you want help responding to effectively? Warmly, david Jenny asks: How do we empathize with people we are extremely angry with, including prominent political figures? Dear David and Rhonda, Your session on dealing with cancer was incredibly heart-warming and so compassionate. I will be sharing that with my sister who is in a similar situation and now completely healed from her cancer! My question deals with anger. Many of us are dealing with anger and frustration at our country, president, and White House, who are taking rights away from us that we have earned over the past 80+ years. I find applying your positive ideas about anger to be very helpful: to view anger as having a high moral sense of justice and fairness, and to view frustration as keeping vigilant and to not get discouraged. But I want to investigate further how these anger/frustration ideas can be applied to White Supremacists and Steven Miller. Because when you hear these people talk they are so incredibly angry, and are directing their anger at other people in destructive ways. How could we, if given the opportunity, talk to them and feel empathy with them? Thanks so much, Jenny David’s response: If you like, we can include your excellent and highly relevant question in an upcoming Ask David podcast. Thanks for listening today! Matt, Rhonda, and David

Ask David: Is friendship a basic human need? Lost and alone--What should I do? #466 Ask David: Is friendship a basic human need? Lost and alone—what should I do? The answers to today’s questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Today’s questions. Zainab asks: Is friendship a basic human need? Slash says: I’m lost and alone. I really don’t know what direction to take in my life. What should I do?   Zainab asks: Is friendship a basic human need? Hello Dr. Burns, I have a question that has been pestering me for years. I know you said you don't need romantic love to be happy, but I find it hard to believe that you can be happy alone without any friends. Humans are social creatures and there have been studies that said being alone is equivalent to smoking cigarettes - that's how detrimental it is to your health. Being alone can be very dangerous - that is why solitary confinement is one of the worst punishments given in prisons. Best regards, Zainab David’s reply However, the question, as I see it, would be whether adult, or romantic love as you call it, is a want or a need? Do we “need” it to feel happy? What were your happiest moments, between 0 and 100? I have had several incredibly happy moments that did not have anything to do with being loved or not being loved. What, in your opinion, is the maximum happiness possible if you are alone or unloved? What, exactly, is the claim that you are making? Have you ever intentionally spent time alone to check it out? And if, just if, you did not “need” romantic love to feel happy, would you want to know that? Or would you prefer to insist that we “need” love for happiness, even if it isn’t true? In my experience working with many patients, the “need” for romantic love can actually be one of the greatest causes of unhappiness, and one of the greatest barriers to love as well! Best, david PS Here’s another way to answer the question. What’s your definition of “need?” Or, to put it slightly differently, what is it that you think you “need” friendship for? It wouldn’t be a cup of coffee at Starbucks, for example, because anyone can walk in and purchase coffee. And you don’t need friendship to breathe. Air is free. And also, what, in your opinion, would be the difference between “wanting” friendship and “needing friendship?” Also, what is your definition of “love.” Love has many meanings, and is not some precise “thing.” It’s just a word we use in a great variety of ways. I love blueberry pie, but these days I avoid it because it is quite sweet, and I’m trying to avoid calories. I don’t “need” blueberry pie. It’s just a “nice to have” every now and then. I promised to include the Pleasure Predicting Sheet in the show notes so you can do the experiment suggested on the podcast. So here it is! Pleasure Predicting Sheet Slash says: I’m lost and alone. I really don’t know what direction to take in my life! What should I do?  Subject: Feeling Lost Hi Dr. Burns, I wanted to share some mixed feelings with you. Your podcasts and techniques have been very helpful, and I’m truly grateful for the comfort and hope they bring me. I’ve been a shy, lonely person for most of my life, and only recently have I started to feel a little bit of confidence. Still, I worry a lot—just like my father. It’s 4 a.m. as I write this, and I keep asking myself, What should I do with my life? Sometimes I dream about learning music, sometimes I think about getting a job, but whenever I try, my anxiety takes over and I step back. I often see myself as someone carrying many kinds of anxiety—social anxiety, constant worrying, nervousness about driving, blood phobia, and even anxiety that comes out of nowhere. I’ve also learned from you that hidden emotions can be powerful, and I’m beginning to notice that in myself. Sometimes I go out with my friends, enjoy the moment, and feel lighter. But when I come back and look at my father, my uncle, and my grandfather, I feel a wave of sadness again. My father struggles with anxiety, my uncle (who once lived bold and fearless) now has schizophrenia and cannot work, and my grandfather, at 88 years old, still travels in crowded buses to support the family. Their struggles weigh on my heart, and I often feel I’m not doing anything meaningful in comparison. Sometimes I even find myself seeing you as a grandfather figure, because your words carry so much wisdom and kindness. It feels strange to say, but I really don’t know what direction to take in my life. If you could share even a little guidance, I would be deeply grateful. Warmly, Slash David’s response We can include this in an Ask David podcast if you like! Please advise. Warmly, david We can use your first name or a fake name, whatever you prefer. Matt, Rhonda, and David

The Music of TEAM-- A Little Different from the Music of REBT! There are many paradoxes in TEAM! That's part of what makes TEAM challenging, but also exciting. Do you know what the plural of paradox is? Paradise! Sometimes, music allows us to "see" or "get" something that pure thinking struggles with. Years ago, followers of the renowned but controversial Dr. Albert Ellis loved singing the famous and outrageous songs written by Dr. Ellis and featuring key ideas in the Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy (REBT) he created. They were popular because they captured his core messages, involving low frustration tolerance, whining and complaining, and more. Dr. Ellis wrote the words, and the music came from popular songs familiar to anyone, like Battle Hymn of the Republic, and many others. If you like, you can hear a brief interview with Dr. Ellis, and listen as he discusses the dire “need” for love and sings one of his songs about the need (demand) for love AT THIS LINK Although none of the REBT songs made the top list on the top ten charts, they brought tons of glee to his many fans, especially when the participants at his psychotherapy conferences would sing them together. His humorous music made it a little easier for some of us to recognize the absurdity in the intense “shoulds” we direct against ourselves when we fall short and a world that isn’t the way it “should” be, according to our narcissistic rules! Today, we hear some of the music of TEAM CBT which seems to be increasing in popularity recently. However, the themes are quite different from the cutting and sarcastic music of the Albert Ellis era. Instead, they tend to focus on some of the more tender and inspiring messages of TEAM CBT. For example, I’ve often described a key idea that I learned from my beloved cat, teacher, and friend, Obie: “When you no longer need to be special, the world becomes special.” The message focuses on the perfectionism and self-criticism that so many patients and therapists alike indulge in, criticizing themselves mercilessly for every error, failure, and shortcoming, thinking that if they work hard enough, they will achieve something tremendous and attain a lofty status of true “specialness.” You will hear the song, “Am I Special?” on today’s podcast. The lyrics of “Am I Special?” were written by Angela Poch, the music was written by Shalynn Burton. Angela Poch put together the virtual choir featuring Rachael, Shalynn, Brandon Vance, Eric Burns and Heather Clague. The Acceptance Paradox is at the core of that song and many TEAM CBT techniques—finding joy and enlightenment when you accept your shitty, below average self. And here’s the essence of the Acceptance Paradox: When you accept yourself exactly as you are, warts and all, everything suddenly changes. You perceive yourself and your world through new eyes, and you see that everything is actually quite different from the way you thought, and you experience a sense of freedom, liberation, and joy. David Burns, MD This is a paradox because total acceptance and total change appear to be exact opposites! But in fact, their the exact same thing! Along the same lines, the so-called "Great Death" of the "self" is actually the "Great Rebirth," or a great "waking up" from a trance. Much of today’s music revolves around those kinds of themes. And some of it focuses on the Five Secrets of Effective Communication and the Disarming Technique, which highlights another key paradox that I call the Law of Opposites: When someone criticizes you with an unfair and untrue criticism, you will the overwhelming urge to argue and defend yourself. If you give in to this urge—and nearly everybody does—you will actually PROVE that the criticism was actually 100% valid, and the critic will continue to attack and criticize you. That’s a Paradox! And here’s the other side of that paradox: If you immediately, humbly, and genuinely agree with a criticism that sounds unfair and untrue, you will instantly put the lie to it, and the criticism will suddenly realize that the criticism simply isn’t true. That’s also a Paradox. So much for the background, and some of the philosophy behind the music you’ll hear today. First, here are the performers you’ll hear in today’s podcast, with brief bio sketches: Mark Noble, PhD is a famed neuroscientist and recently certified TEAM CBT coach. Today, he sings three songs with guitar: Placebo, Mind Warp, and Song of My Self. You can contact him at mark_noble@urmc.rochester.edu Heather Clague, MD is a psychiatrist and Level 5 Advanced Master TEAM therapist practicing in Oakland, California. Heather and her colleague, Brandon Vance, MD, are the originators of the immensely popular Feeling Great and Feeling Great app book clubs. For more information, got to https://www.heatherclaguemd.com. Brandon Vance, MD is also a psychiatrist and Level 4 Master TEAM therapist and song writer practicing in Oakland. For more information, go to https://www.feelinggreattherapycenter.com/brandonvance. He works with Heather on a variety of immensely popular Feeling Great book and app clubs. Heather and Brandon sang the song Heather wrote, “TEAM Is Paradoxical.” In addition to singing, Heather plays the ukulele. Erik Burns is the son of David Burns, MD. He lives with his wife and son in Santa Cruz, California, and practices hypnosomatic therapy for individuals struggling with anxiety as well as those with gastrointestinal complaints. He was recently featured on the Feeling Good Podcast (#435, February 10th, 2025: https://feelinggood.com/2025/02/10/435-meet-erik-burns/). You can learn more about Erik’s life and practice at https://www.instagram.com/erikburns.bloom/. Shalynn Burton, ACSW is TEAM therapist who practices virtually throughout California at the Feeling Good Institute. She specializes in anxiety, dating/ relationship, race/ethnic challenges, social skills, self-esteem, and more. To learn more, you can check her out at https://feelinggoodinstitute.com/find-cbt-therapist/shalynn-burton. Rachel Dillman is a singer / songwriter who creates music to help people build greater resilience. To learn more, check her out at www.linkedin.com/in/rachmd www.resilwave.com. She asked me to emphasize that that her songs help her memorize and put into practice important concepts, like the Five Secrets of Effective Communication. In addition, she is a strong believer that songs can influence our thoughts and emotions. You can hear her songs such as Change How You Feel, Five Secrets, and more at the link above! Angel Poch is an immensely popular and talented TEAM CBT coach and teacher. She practices in Canada, and offers TEAM CBT training internationally through her many outstanding virtual classes and certification program for coaches. For more information, see https://angelapoch.com// Angela also wrote the songs: “Feeling Great,” and “Tell Me the Truth.” Thanks for listening today! Rhonda, Angela, Rachel, Shalynn, Erik, Heather, Brandon, Mark, and David

Hopelessness: A New Approach Featuring Mike Christensen Often, therapists are drawn to become specialists in the very area where they once suffered and felt most vulnerable. In Mike’s case, he describes his own feelings of failure, betrayal, bitterness and hopelessness in his early career, and how he found his way to become a star in the TEAM therapy firmament. Today, he describes a breakthrough approach in the treatment of hopelessness as well, based on the A = Assessment of Resistance portion of TEAM. Mike began by saying that treating hopelessness is always a challenge. . . in fact, I can vividly remember when I felt hopeless! And of course, part of the challenge is the fear that hopeless patients may try to take their own lives. This is the “dark side” of clinical practice, and it is not often talked about because of the terror it strikes in the hearts of mental health professionals. Mike started out with a bit of his traumatic personal history. He explained that he once owned and ran a bicycle shop in Canada when he was in his mid- to late-twenties. “There was a fellow businessman in my town who was a bit older than me and somebody I really looked up to. He was successful, had a beautiful family, was well respected in the community and had some wonderful friends. One day I got a phone call from my wife and she said to me:  ‘Did you hear what happened to John? She went on to tell me that it was shocking and terrible because he was somebody who enjoyed hunting. One day he went out to the family cabin and took his shotgun and took his own life. Mike said that at his funeral, “I can remember it like it was yesterday hearing his daughter's voice when she spoke and those words that she said.  “Daddy, why were you so sad?” “A number of years later we had moved on, sold the business and our home and moved to another town to work in an organization supporting people. I had done my degree in theology with focus on youth and counseling and was working with young families. Unfortunately there were some real difficulties in the situation and it did not turn out very well after a little over a year. He felt betrayed, and ended up with no job. He was now in his mid to late-30s, and got a job in a hardware store. “I was really struggling with the sense of confusion, frustration, depression and hopelessness. Even though I had a supportive family, and had been successful in many areas of my life. He recounts, “One day I looked in the mirror and as I was having those thoughts of hopelessness I was reminded of John, my business colleague who had taken his own life 10 years earlier and I thought about my 2 young daughters.  I could hear John’s daughter's voice: “Daddy why were you so sad”  in my head and I thought I have to get some help” “My wife is a nurse and has a very wise family physician, Dr Mariette deBruin, who is incredibly skilled at empathy. Fortunately, she had been at a mental health conference earlier that year and heard this brilliant psychiatrist share a powerful approach to treating depression without medication. That psychiatrist was Dr David Burns. She suggested I get a hold of the book, Feeling Good, and that was the start of my recovery in 2006. I went back to grad school  to do my Masters in Counseling Psychology and then attended my first workshop with Dr. Burns  in 2009.” Looking back, I realized that hopelessness was actually my best friend. I was in a tremendous amount of pain. Here were some of the positives I discovered in my feelings of hopelessness: In my previous work, I’d been hurt badly, stabbed in the back. My hopelessness was my way of punishing the people who’d hurt me. I was saying, “Look at me. I’m a broken shell.” I felt like this gave me some value. . . as well as a sense of revenge.” I had placed a lot of value in my success in my life, three beautiful kids, and a great athletic career (biking), and my hopelessness protected me from the disappointment of dashed dreams in my new career. I felt I was being realistic. Hopelessness validated how severe my problems were. Hope trivialized it. When I'm working with practicum students or interns that are early in their counseling or therapy career, one of the greatest fears that they have is that one of their clients or patients will take their own life. Sadly, when you go into this line of work the reality is that at some point, someone we work with in some capacity will experience that level of hopelessness and so I have to inform them that “suicide is not if, but when.” This is why it's so critical for us to know how to  work with it. He explained that “Hopelessness validated how I felt. People were all trying to cheer me up. That’s the WORST thing you can do. “My TEAM training was pointing me in the opposite direction. Validating it and acknowledging it took the pressure off of it and began the process of bringing about tremendous relief.” We discussed the power and value of Positive Reframing, even with the hopeless patient, as well as the value of empathy. He said the Positive Reframing shows that “you totally get what this is like for me.” The positive reframe serves as our most profound empathy tool. By enabling us to perceive the world through the eyes of our clients or patients, it eliminates their sense of isolation. The hopelessness shows something beautiful and awesome about you. He recalls his early training in TEAM, and the immense value of the Externalization of Voices and Feared Fantasy work he did with David to challenge his negative thoughts, including: I really AM a failure. David must be thinking that I’m an embarrassment to him. David is also thinking, “I can’t believe I let you on this podcast.” We illustrated the Externalization of Voices and Feared Fantasy live on the podcast, including the blow-away Acceptance Paradox. Because of that training, “I am no longer afraid of failure!” Thanks so much for joining us today! Mike, David and Rhonda

Defeat Perfectionism  and Discover the Art of Self-Acceptance Part 2 of 2 Last week, we published Part 1 of the two-hour webinar on techniques to defeat perfectionism. This week, in Part 2 you’ll learn many powerful methods to crush the distorted thoughts that trigger perfectionism, including Identify the Distortions Explain the Distortions The Externalization of Voices The Acceptance Paradox The Counter-Attack Technique The Feared Fantasy Technique Self-Disclosure Relapse Prevention Training And more! You can take a look at the workshop handout if you CLICK HERE! This live, practical training will equip you with powerful, research-backed techniques to help yourself and your clients transform perfectionism into peace, power, self-acceptance, and emotional freedom, all illustrated with dramatic video clips from an actual TEAM CBT session with a woman struggling mightily from brutal self-criticisms, self-doubt, and sleepless nights, due to the very perfectionism that has catapulted her into an incredible career. Thanks for listening today! And please let us know if you like (or do not care for) these two part-podcasts based on one of my two hour webinars with Dr. Jill Levitt!  Jill, David and Rhonda

Ask David: How to Stop Giving a Crap Motivating a Procrastinator . . . and More The answers to today’s questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Today’s questions. 1. Chris has a question about Positive Reframing and the Magic Dial. 2. Joe asks: What method would be best to stop giving a crap? 3. Ollie asks: How do you motivate a procrastinating patient to do the hard work of facing the task they’ve been putting off? 4. Owen asks: Should I complete a full Daily Mood Log each day? 5. Owen also asks: Is it okay to copy the positive reframing from a previous DML when relevant?   1. Chris asks about Positive Reframing and the Magic Dial. Hi David! I'm currently on my third re-read of "Feeling Great" and want to thank you for the positive changes and progress I have experienced in my life as a result of the techniques and information present in the book. My question is, when you use positive reframing, and identify all the advantages of a negative thought, but still decide, "Hey I would still like to reduce my suffering, in spite of all these good things. But I would love to keep the advantages too." Does this mean my conviction for change is not strong enough? Or is this when I should transition to the magic dial technique and try to keep the best of both worlds ? Thank you in advance, Christian David’s reply Thanks, do the Magic Dial and you can have it both ways. However, keep this in mind, or perhaps discover it later on. Once you start to challenge your thoughts successfully, and your belief in your negative thoughts diminishes substantially, you may decide to lower your feelings even further, possibly all the way to zero. And at that point, you’re probably ready for Relapse Prevention Training as described in the book. The Feeling Great app is free this summer if you’re in the US, so that might help you along the trail if needed. Warmly, David Can I use this as an Ask David question on one of our Ask podcasts? d Christian responds Hello David, Thank you for your in depth response, that's really handy. Part of me is really hoping I'll want to lower my ratings even further, but I think as you have outlined many times, honoring my resistance is important if I want to get to that point. It's weird isn't it, I know at an intellectual level I want these things to happen, but at the gut level part of me is still holding on. I would love to use the app, however I'm based in the UK and it isn't available to me, I saw on the FAQ on the website that it may be getting released in other parts of the world soon ? I also hope there will be more and more TEAM-CBT therapists available in the UK in future too ! Absolutely, I would love for my question to be featured in the podcast ! Warm Regards, Christian   2. Joe asks: What method would be best to stop giving a crap? Hey Dr. Burns, Your two most recent webinars have been very helpful, especially Overcoming Perfectionism, yet I still struggle hard with perfectionism. [To be specific, I put a video out there that people enjoyed (internally) and that I spent a month on, only to get mostly ignored, and I feel defeated.] What method would be best to stop giving a crap? Thanks! Joe David’s Reply As I have said so often, I don’t recommend “methods” for “problems.” I use TEAM, a process. I sometimes have the same problem with media interviews. I am often asked to give three tips on this or that problem, like gaining self-esteem or whatever. For example, a Chinese interviewer asked for “tips” on overcoming depression, like spending more time in nature or more time with friends and the people you care about. I am not happy about such questions, as my answer is that I’m a no tips please type of guy. I have developed many powerful processes for dealing with a variety of common problems. For example, for individual mood problems I find it extremely useful to start out with a partially completed Daily Mood Log, and for a relationship problem a partially completed Relationship Journal can lead to some fantastic and revealing work. But as far as general “tips” for not “giving a crap” if you’re struggling with perfectionism, I can only quote what the Buddha said nearly 2,500 years ago: “General tips suck! Give me something specific and real, please!” Best, david   3. How can you motivate someone who procrastinates? Dear David, I have a question but first I'd like to tell you and the team just how much I'm loving the app. Especially since you gave the AI a voice so now we can speak with it rather than typing out responses. Now it feels so quick and easy. Sometimes, I find it can be hard to motivate myself to do the self-help work but talking to the app makes the process effortless. It really does feel like having a friend who's got your best interest at heart, and they're available to talk to you whenever you need them. My question is about the role of therapists when it comes to patient motivation. I was hoping you could clarify why when patients present with anxiety, we know they will predictably resist doing exposure, but as a therapist it is necessary to press the matter. However, when working with a procrastinating patient, they will almost always show similar process resistance (to doing whatever it is they're procrastinating about), but your recommendation (as far as I understand it) is not to push them to do anything. Not to help motivate them to do the hard work. Is there a reason for this difference, or have I misunderstood entirely? Warmest regards, Ollie David’s Reply I can make this an Ask David question, and thanks. Appreciate the kind comments. As a therapist working with anxiety or depression, I work out the Outcome and Process Resistance before trying to “help.” So, the depressed patient must agree to homework, and the anxious patient must agree to exposure, in order for us to work together on those problems. This is called Dangling the Carrot, Gentle Ultimatum, and Sitting with Open Hands and sometimes with Fallback Position at the end. If a patient wants help with procrastination, they must agree to the five-minute rule, to get started at a specific time today, even if they don’t feel motivated. I see it as the same thing: making the patient accountable and giving the patient free will to decide what they are willing to do—or not willing to do. I would never try to motivate a procrastinating patient! That’s not on the menu. However, I can help them get started if they need help, but I the first five things they have to do into simple things taking 15 seconds each, like sit in my chair might be the first step in organizing you desk. Then reaching for a piece of paper that needs filing. Etc. Five minutes work of little things. You might want to listen to / search the podcasts for this process. We’ll mention a bit more on the podcast. Warmly, david If I missed it, try again!    4. Owen asks: Should I complete a full Daily Mood Log each day? Hi Dr. Burns, Thank you again for all the incredible content you've been sharing—both the Feeling Good podcast and your Feeling Great videos. You’re so engaging and natural on camera, it’s hard to believe you were ever camera-shy! The Ask David segments are always a highlight of my Mondays. I just had two quick questions about the Daily Mood Log. I often find it takes me several hours to complete one fully, including the positive reframing. Should I aim to complete a full log each day for maximum benefit, or is it okay to work through one gradually over several days? I often get unrelated negative thoughts while still working on a previous log, which means I can't get to the new ones right away. David’s Reply Hi Owen, Yes, you can spread it out for sure. david   5. Owen asks: To speed things up, is it okay to copy positive reframing from a previous DML when relevant, or is it better to start fresh each time? Thanks so much in advance, Owen (assumed name) David’s Reply Hi Owen, Yes, you can use previous PR! Will include your questions at the upcoming Ask David podcast. Can we use your first name? david At our next Ask David, we’ll start out with this question: 1. Zainab asks: Is friendship a basic human need? What do you think? Yes? No? Maybe? We did a survey among our group in preparation for the next Ask, and it was two “no’s” (Matt and David) and one “yes” (Rhonda). So stay tuned next week for the discussion of this question that comes up often in different disguises. For example, we often hear heated proclamations on whether love is an adult human “need.” What do you think about that question? Thanks for listening today! Matt, Rhonda, and David

Ask David-- The Fear of Happiness! Although we had five questions for today’s Ask David episode, we spend the entire podcast on the first question from a man with an intense fear of happiness. He wrote: How can I use exposure to overcome my fear of happiness? Hi David, How would you do exposure for the fear of happiness? Whenever I feel happy I immediately feel afraid because I had a very strict religious upbringing where many harmless forms of fun and enjoyment were completely forbidden. Even though I'm no longer a religious believer, the fear remains. Feeling good then makes me afraid, anxious and insomniac. This often goes on for days after something good happens and it almost seems as if I AM being punished after all! How can I recover when feeling good makes me feel so bad? Love your work and all that you do. Best regards, Tomas David’s reply As I have said on numerous occasions, I do NOT recommend “methods” (like exposure) for “problems” (like your “fear of happiness.”) I think your problem is very treatable, but I work with patients systematically, and that doesn’t mean starting out with a “method,” like exposure or any other method. I use a step by step approach, using T = Testing, E – Empathy, A = Assessment of Resistance, and M = Methods in a sequence. In addition, when I work with anxiety, I always incorporate these four approaches with every patient I work with: The Motivational Model: I bring Outcome and Process Resistance to conscious awareness and melt them away, if possible, using a variety of TEAM CBT approaches. The Cognitive Model: This involves a well-done Daily Mood Log to identify and challenge the distorted negative thoughts at one moment in time. The Exposure Model: Facing your fears, or testing them with an experiment. This is frightening, but required of every anxious patient. The Hidden Emotion Model: This is based on the idea that only “nice” people struggle with anxiety, with only a few exceptions, and that an unacknowledged problem is often hiding right behind the anxiety. The cure requires the Detective Step: identifying what the hidden emotion or feeling is. The Action Step: Expressing the suppressed feeling and or dealing with the problem you are avoiding. Your fear of happiness is an interesting problem for sure. One of my favorite movies, “Babette’s Feast,” involves this theme. If you want some help, you could send me a partially completed Daily Mood Log. You will discover that you are the only one who is doing the punishing! It is that belittling, intimidating voice in your own head that is causing 100% of your suffering. I look forward to helping you challenge those voices! In the meantime, I’ll add this to the latest Ask David podcast questions, in the hopes you might send the DML, and then Rhonda and I can comment in greater depth on the live program. Best, david Tomas kindly sent a Daily Mood Log, which you can see if you CLICK HERE As you can see, the Upsetting Event is simply “studying mathematics,” something he loves. However, he has the belief that if he allows himself to enjoy this or any activity, something terrible will happen to him. He traces this to a strict religious upbringing, and perhaps also to bullying he endured as a kid. You can see that this is intensely upsetting to him. If you look you will see that in 8 of the 9 categories of emotions on his Daily Mood Log (DML), he scores in the range of 80 to 100, which is intense and severe to extreme. The only emotion category that is not extremely elevated is the anger cluster, which he rated at only 40. You can see as well that his negative thoughts all involve the theme of punishment and destruction if he allows himself to feel happiness and enjoyment of life, or if he advances himself in life. In some of the emails he sent me, he traces this back to being bullied when young. . . possibly by kids who were jealous of his high IQ. As mentioned above, I don’t throw methods (like exposure) at people based on a problem or diagnosis (in his case a phobia, the fear of happiness.) I also mentioned that I go through the T E A M model in a sequence, starting with Testing and Empathy, followed by the Assessment of Resistance and culminating in Methods. In addition, I always treat anxious patients with four powerful models, including the Motivational Model, the Cognitive Model, the Exposure Model, and the Hidden Emotion Model. I described these models above. The Motivational Model The Outcome Resistance has to do with the fact that Tomas may resist treatment because of his fear of the consequences of successfully achieving happiness. We will deal with that with Positive Reframing, including the Miracle Cure Question, the Magic Button, Positive Reframing, and the Magic Dial. In addition, we’ll have to deal with Process Resistance. At some point, we will have to use exposure techniques, and we will want to find out if he’s WILLING to do exposure even though it may be extremely anxiety provoking at first. We can dangle the carrot, letting him know that we anticipate a positive outcome, but also understand that facing his worst fears may be terrifying at first, and very uncomfortable. I will not try to persuade him to use any of the many versions of Exposure. He will have to persuade me that he’s willing to do it. I suspect he will be, because he is asking for exposure, but if he says he wants to be treated without exposure, I will have to let him know I am not a good choice as a therapist for him! That’s because I don’t know how to defeat any form of anxiety without exposure. Of course, I cannot treat Tomas, or anyone, through an Ask David, but can only make teaching points. But I am teaching self-help techniques that have been helpful to many people. In an email, I asked him the Magic Button question, and he said he didn’t think he’d push it. This indicates some understandable resistance that has to be dealt with. Positive Reframing is one way to deal with Outcome Resistance. The goal is not only deeper empathy but also helping patients “see” that the negative thoughts and feelings they are struggling so desperately to overcome are actually positive in many ways. Once they “see” this, it is kind of a pleasant shock to the system, and their resistance to change typically disappears. Then we ask them to set goals for each negative feelings—a lower level of each feeling that would allow them to feel better and not lose all the wonderful positives we have discovered. That’s why it’s better NOT to push the Magic Button. To help Tomas or anyone see and list the positives in their negative thoughts and feelings, we ask two key questions about each one: What are some possible advantages, or benefits, of this negative thought or feeling? How might it help me? What does this negative thought or feeling show about me and my core values as a human being that’s positive and awesome? Typically, this leads to list of 10 to 20 positives that have three characteristics. To give you an example, his intense loneliness is an expression of his love for people and the great value he sees in meaningful relationships. And his anxiety serves to protect him from danger, and is therefore an expression of self-love. And his feelings of inferiority—in spite of his tremendous intelligence—show humility, which is not only a spiritual quality, but also can make a person of great intelligence more accessible, more vulnerable, and more attractive. Inferiority may also be an expression of his honesty and willingness to acknowledge his shortcomings, as well as his accountability. We could easily go on and on, and it might be a great exercise for you to try find the positives in several other of his negative thoughts and feelings by asking those two questions. Once my patient and I have listed 10 or more positives, I ask if these positives are True and valid? Powerful? Important? Nearly always, I get a resounding YES to each question. Then I use the Magic Dial to see what they might want to dial each negative feeling down to in the % Goal column of the Daily Mood Log. Is this Positive Reframing process straightforward? Easy? Not really. I make it look easy, because when I teach I want people to understand, but “seeing” these positives is, in reality, incredibly challenging for most people. In fact, You can see the Positive Reframing that Tomas completed on his own if you CLICK HERE As you can see Tomas almost completely missed the boat when he tried to identify the positives in his negative thoughts and feelings. I mention this because it is a CRUCIAL step in TEAM CBT, and people often have a tremendously hard time “seeing” the positives in their negative thoughts and feelings. A big part of the reason is that society teaches us the opposite. In fact, negative feelings are Labeled as a bewildering array of more than 200 so-called “mental disorders” by the American Psychiatric Association in their “bible,” the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.) But here’s something even MORE surprising. Rhonda—a highly respected and admired TEAM CBT therapist and teacher—also struggles to find the positives during today’s podcast. Once someone has pointed them out, you can suddenly “see” them. But on your own, you may have a lot of trouble at first with Positive Reframing, which is anything but simple, but extraordinarily powerful once you “get it.” I recently told my weekly Tuesday psychotherapy training group at Stanford that TEAM CBT is extraordinarily difficult to learn and master—nearly always requiring years of study and practice—and perhaps the most challenging form of psychotherapy ever developed. She was angry and told me I’d have to do large controlled outcome studies to validate that claim! Yikes! I may be wrong, and there could be other more difficult forms of therapy, but I still believe what I’m saying because I see it every single day. Many of the most powerful and helpful concepts, such as the four “Great Deaths” of the “self” f

Part 2 of Our Personal Work with Rhonda The Surprising Conclusion of Rhonda's Session with Matt and David Last week, you heard Part 1 of our personal work--a single two hour therapy session--with Rhonda, focusing on her recent shocking diagnosis of a cancerous and potentially fatal lymphatic tumor in her neck. We did initial T = Testing and E = Empathy. Today we do the A = Assessment of Resistance and the M = Methods, and of course, the final assessment of symptoms and teaching points. A = Assessment of Resistance How DO you help someone facing a terrifying diagnosis of cancer? What's the best method to use? How do you cheer them up, or is it impossible to do so and foolish to try? Or is there no correct answer to these questions? Well, there IS a "correct" answer, at least according to the gospel of TEAM. You ASK the person if they want help, or if listening is enough. And if they want help, you ask them what they want help with. This personalizes the treatment and brings it alive for the patient. Rhonda said she had difficulties accepting help, and extreme fears of being a burden on others. She specifically wanted to stop comparing herself to her friend, Jack, who has so far survived for four years after a severe diagnosis of disseminated cancer requiring whole body radiation. She also wanted help feeling less guilty about her anger and her complaint about pain and side effects. Because we didn't want the session to run overly long, we did some streamlined Positive Reframing, listing 11 positives embbeded in her negative thoughts and feelings, such as "I have no right to complain." What does each negative thought and feeling show about her that's positive and awesome? And what were some benefits of them? The we asked Rhonda about her goals for each negative feeling on her DML, which you can see if you CLICK HERE As you can see, her desired reductions for most of her negative feelings were only modest, perhaps indicating some acceptance of her situation and the negative feelings that seemed inevitable. However, this can sometimes indicate some residual resistance that has not been addressed. We'll have to wait and see what happens next to find out! M = Methods We worked with Rhonda using several methods, especially the Externalization of Voices with frequent role reversal until she got to huge. My memory of the session is that the Counter-Attack Technique compared with the Acceptance Paradox got her to HUGE wins. You can see Rhonda’s ratings for each negative feeling at the end of the session if you CLICK HERE And were these rating genuine? Or was she just being "helpful" to us for the sake of the podcast? At the end, Rhonda estimate her gratitude was 1,000,000%! Thank you, Rhonda. We all love you for your incredibly important gift to all of us today, teaching us how to love, and to laugh, when we all have to face our inevitable fate of letting go and experiencing the "true Great Death" of the "self." And we are 1,000,000% grateful to your wonderful doctors at Stanford that this cancer will NOT get the last word! Teaching Points The first take home message is that you can’t effectively treat anyone with any kind of emotional problem without asking them to write down their negative thoughts. If you do this, you can find out exactly what's going on, and you'll know the only real cause of all the negative feelings that person is struggling with. That’s why you can’t treat depression with “tips” or advice, like “spend time in nature,” or “spend time with friends.” That’s just junk and cheap advice and it will not work, above and beyond a possible placebo effect. Second we don’t treat problems, like “cancer” or "depression" or any “mental disorder” with packages developed for just that problem. We treat people who are struggling, and find out what their negative thoughts are! You CANNOT know what someone is thinking without asking them. Everyone’s thoughts are different and unique. That's why packages, including ALL the so-called "schools" of therapy, will ALWAYS fall short. There are, of course, common themes, like “I’m not good enough,” but we all put our own unique spins on these themes when we’re hurting. And third, measure what you're trying to treat, with brief accurate scales worded in the hear and now at the start and end of each session. That's the ONLY way to know if you've been effective. And finally, events no matter how traumatic, do NOT cause feelings. Only your thoughts can have impact on how you feel about yourself, other people, and the world. That statement is not intended to blame you for how you feel, but to liberate you from the traps you've fallen into. Thanks for listening today! Matt, Rhonda, and David

Part 1 of Our Personal Work with Rhonda The doctor said I have cancer!  Are feelings of depression, fear, anger, hopelessness, and more inevitable if you have experienced a severely traumatic event? Nearly all human beings would say it IS inevitable. But are they right? If your doctor just told you that you have a serious form of cancer, is it possible--or even desirable--to avoid intense distress and despair? Today, Matthew May MD and I sit down with our beloved Rhonda who was diagnosed roughly six weeks ago with a cancerous follicular lymphoma. This is a type of lymphatic cancer that allows for a reasonably long life expectancy, but is almost universally fatal. With one exception—if you find and treat it super early. And that is where Rhonda finds herself. And today, she received her (hopefully) 12th and final radiation treatment to her neck, right under her right ear. She was told that the probability of a cure is 95%, but the effects, including painful side effects, of the radiation would be cumulative and increasing for a while after the series of treatments has been concluded. And she IS in considerable discomvort. Which was good news, great news, actually, for all of us! Still, it’s been a rocky and highly emotional road for Rhonda. So Matt and I sat down with her early this morning to see if we, with the help of TEAM CBT, might be able to bring her some accurate empathy and comfort. In the session, Matt and I went through the T E A M sequence with Rhonda. T = Testing You can see Rhonda’s initial Brief Mood Survey if you CLICK HERE As you can see from her Brief Mood Survey, which was completed before the session began, she was only mildly elevated in depression, anxiety, and anger, but her positive feelings of happiness were very low (only 8 our of 20, with 0 being not happiness at all in any category and 20 being the highest possible happiness. in all categories.) E = Empathy However, as Matt and I empathized with Rhonda, we reviewed her partially completed Daily Mood Log, which you can see if you CLICK HERE This tool painted a radically different picture. Rhonda's scores in nearly all categories were extremely elevated, indicating about the most intense feelings of depression, anxiety, guilt, shame, inadequacy, hopelessness, frustration, anger, and shock, as you can imagine. She was also moderately self-conscious and embarrassed. Four radically important question came to mind: What was causing these intensely negative and almost unbearable feelings? Is there any realistic hope of reducing them during today's session? And if you did want to "help," how in the world would you attempt to do this? And how much "help" could you realistically hope for? If you're serious about these topics, I would strongly recommend that you take a piece of paper and jot down your answers to these questions right now, before you listen to the rest of session. Then, after you listen to the conclusion next week, you can compare what happened with your own ideas about the situation. , During the empathy phase, Matt and I used the Five Secrets of Effective Communication to understand exactly how Rhonda was think, and how she was really feeling inside. We also did a What-If / Downward Arrow Technique to find out what she was the most afraid of. If you haven't already listened to that portion of our work with her. What do you think she was most afraid of in having cancer? And why, do you suppose, she was feeling so guilty? And so angry? We also explored the impact of the side effects of the radiation therapy, and the impact of the cancer on her personal and family relationships, the errors others made in trying to "help" when she was feeling down, and her fears of the future. At the end of the empathy phase, we asked Rhonda to grade us in three categories: How well did David and Matt understand your thoughts? How well did David and Matt understand how you were feeling inside? How well did David and Matt so in creating an atmosphere of trust, warmth, and acceptance? If you're a mental health professional and you do psychotherapy, I have another question for you before we continue: What % of your patients do you ask these three questions part way through your sessions? Raise your hand if the answer is "most, if not all, of my sessions." Yikes! I don't see many hands going up! I don't want to upset you, and you may not take me seriously, but you might be missing the boat! At any rate, Rhonda gave us a triple A +. That's definitely a passing grade, and she gave us the green light to go on to the final two steps of the TEAM session(/the A and the M steps), which you'll hear in their entirety on our very next podcast! Thanks for listening today! And make sure you tune in next week for the awesome conclusion of our work with our beloved Rhonda! Rhonda, Matt, and David

Ask David: Chasing, Commitment Problems Sadness as Celebration Is Autism Increasing?  The answers to today’s questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the live discussion for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Today’s live podcast discussion with Rhonda, Matt, and David was very energetic and hopefully inspiring for all of you! Today’s questions. Aurora asks about a dating problem—the guy I’m dating doesn’t want to “commit.” What should I do? Ana asks: I’m 48 now, and about 25 years ago, I was diagnosed with infertility—a devastating moment for someone who had dreamed of becoming a mother since childhood. Through therapy, prayer, and especially your book Feeling Good, I’ve done deep healing. I truly feel at peace most of the time. My life is full and joyful. But I’ve noticed that certain dates—especially Mother’s Day and Christmas—still bring sadness. Not overwhelming or constant, but a familiar ache that surprises me even now. I use my CBT tools and move through it, but part of me wonders: should I be “over this” by now? Brittany asks: Is autism really on the increase? The following questions will be included in the next Ask David podcast. We did not have time to include them today. Ollie asks: How do you motivate a procrastinating patient to do the hard work of facing the task they’ve been putting off? Owen asks: Should I complete a full Daily Mood Log each day? Owen asks: Is it okay to copy the positive reframing from a previous DML when relevant? Zainab asks: Is friendship a basic human need?   1. Aurora asks about a dating problem—the guy I’m dating doesn’t want to “commit.” What should I do. Hi Doctor Burns, I have been dating a guy exclusively (both only seeing each other) but he doesn’t bring up wanting commitment to being in a relationship. He wants to see me in all his free time but tends to plan dates last minute if he does and assumes we will hang out at his place when we get together. He knows I’d like a relationship but said we are working towards that and that it’s putting unnecessary pressure when I mentioned it. I’m not sure how long to wait and asking directly for what I’d like (him planning dates in advance) doesn’t really help as he quickly got defensive and I then went to using the five secrets. Any advice? Thank you for everything you do, I love your books and podcast so much. They have truly changed my life. You and Rhonda make me smile every day that I listen. If you do by chance use my question would you not include my name? Aurora David’s response Yes we can address this during an Ask David. It’s great timing since we just had several podcasts on dating questions, Quick answer, and we’ll go deeper in the podcast, but it sounds like you’re being a bit too available and letting him use you and take you for granted. Remember the Burns Rule: “People ONLY want what they CAN’T get, and NEVER want what they CAN get!” So being more unavailable, letting him know you have other plans (which may simply be not to see him at the last minute), all the while being sweet. When he says he is not interested in a commitment just now, you can use the Five Secrets of Effective Communication, and play the role of “shrink,” not “available lady.” Ask him about that, express curiosity, encourage him to talk. These methods (5 secrets) are an art form, spelled out pretty clearly in Feeling Good Together. Pressing him for a commitment is guaranteed to drive him away. You want HIM to be the chaser, and YOU to be the chased. Also, a Daily Mood Log on thoughts that make you anxious about him, and working toward letting go of “needing” him. Warmly, David Aurora responds to David This is amazing Dr. Burns, thank you so very much! I am so humbled you took the time to read my email, use my questions, and give such a helpful reply. And yes how about the name Aurora! Thank you and Rhonda. Your work has truly changed my life and I am so deeply grateful for all you do. Aurora   2. Ana asks about living with infertility. Hi Dr. Burns, I hope you’re well. I had the honor of corresponding with you and Dr. Rhonda last year about my relationship with my mother, and I’m still so grateful for your generosity and the space you gave me on the podcast. Today I write about a different part of my story. I’m 48 now, and about 25 years ago, I was diagnosed with infertility—a devastating moment for someone who had dreamed of becoming a mother since childhood. Through therapy, prayer, and especially your book Feeling Good, I’ve done deep healing. I truly feel at peace most of the time. My life is full and joyful. But I’ve noticed that certain dates—especially Mother’s Day and Christmas—still bring sadness. Not overwhelming or constant, but a familiar ache that surprises me even now. I use my CBT tools and move through it, but part of me wonders: should I be “over this” by now? Or is it normal that something so deep still stirs, even after years of healing? I sometimes question whether I’m simply very good at coping (I’m an Enneagram 3—always performing strength) or if there’s still more I need to process, like the moment both of my sisters-in-law announced their pregnancies during the darkest part of my grief 😓💔. But then again, maybe occasional sadness is just part of living with love and loss. Thank you for reading—and for your work, which has meant so much to me. Warmly, Ana David’s Response Hi Ana, My website is a little clunky now, but if you search “Sadness as Celebration” you may find one or more podcasts that address this concept. In simple terms, your sadness is an expression of your love, and your core values as a human being, as a woman. So you might want to continue to experience that  occasional sadness forever. Of course, if it is having a negative effect on your llfe, that would be different, but it doesn’t sound that way. Acceptance, with gratitude, could be one path. Could we use this on an Ask David, with your first name or possibly some other name? In other words, if you could press our Magic Button and “be over it,” would you REALLY want to press that button? What does your sadness say about you and your core values that’s positive, even awesome? Warmly, david Ana replies Dear Dr. Burns, Thank you so much for your kind and thoughtful response. What you said makes so much sense — it’s so wise, so true, and also so simple. I appreciate it deeply. The idea that my sadness is an expression of love and core values feels incredibly freeing. I only wish I didn’t feel guilty or “broken” when these feelings creep in from time to time. Your perspective helps me see them differently — not as setbacks, but as moments of connection with something I’ve loved dearly. Yes, please feel free to use this in an Ask David episode. I’d be honored. You’re welcome to use my first name, Ana. With gratitude, Ana David’s reply Thanks again, Ana. As an aside, you “got it,” I believe. Your sadness is an expression of your love, and likely also makes you more compassionate toward others. And more. The sadness you feel, arguably, is not a “defect,” or something to be defeated, but something beautiful that can be accepted and welcomed. If you think it is “too much,” you can write down your Negative Thoughts and look for distortions, of course. Warmly, david Rhonda suggested that we give the numbers of the podcasts that deal with the interesting topic of “Sadness as Celebration.” They include #s174, 252, 253, and 304 (this last being my experience with loneliness and grief while driving across the Nevada desert as a medical student.)   3. Brittany asks if autism is on the increase? Hi Dr. Burns, I’ve noticed in the last few years the term autism being used much more commonly and now seems to be a broader term. I watched a show last night where an actual autism center was showing their test they use. It was pictures of people’s eyes and you had to guess if they were feeling sad, happy, frustrated, etc. They said autistic people have a hard time telling what others are thinking/feeling. Well I took the quiz and got half wrong. They also described autistic people as being awkward socially, having a hard time adjusting to new surroundings, disliking loud noises. Well that also describes me but by no means would I say I’m autistic. I think they are throwing personal preferences and social anxiety into the umbrella term autism. I know you did that podcast on ADHD where you said you don’t treat ADHD, you treat people. What are your thoughts on the way autism seems to be diagnosed these days? Of course I’m sure you would just treat whatever problem the person wanted to work on, not the so called disorder. But still, do you find it frustrating how often people are deemed to be autistic these days? -Brittany David’s reply I might be a bit autistic, too! Join the club. It's the latest thing, and super broad boundaries, just like you said. And like you said, I treat the person, not the so-called "mental disorder." Also, I did an informal study on shrinks, and they had no idea what patients were feeling even after a two + hour interview with the patient! Warmly, david PS I'll make this another ask David, it's a good one! Rhonda wrote: David:  What do you think of putting the link to the autism facial recognition test in the show notes? Great idea, Rhonda, so here’s the link. Remember, we are not endorsing the validity or reliability of this scale, nor are we recommending it for any medical or psychological assessment! David Check out the Autism Test Thanks for listening today! Matt, Rhonda, and David  

Ask David: The Fear of Being Abandoned Living with Someone Who's Depressed Can Someone Else's Depression Depress You! The answers to today’s questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the live discussion for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Today’s questions. Negar asks: How can I overcome my fear of being alone or being abandoned? Stan asks: What are your tips on living with someone suffering from anxiety or depression? They can sometimes be demanding or argumentative! Stan Asks: How can we protects ourselves from not feeling down during and after spending social time with anxious and / or depressed people because they express anxious or depressing thoughts to us. It seems to me that we must start to believe the distorted negative thoughts that the anxious or depressed person transmits to us, so we start to feel the same negative emotions the other person feels.   1. Negar asks: How can I overcome my fear of being alone or being abandoned? Thank you very much You know, doctor, one of the problems I have had since childhood was that I always worry about being alone and losing the people I love. My mind becomes conditioned and a lot of negative obsessive thoughts come to my mind, even the smallest irrelevant and random external events create a sign and increase stress But I will not stop trying But I am very eager to know what you think about the mind and the irrelevant and random patterns that it relates to negative events and how to get out of this cycle You can even put this as a podcast or clip on YouTube, I think it would be very welcome because I have seen many people who have this problem🙂😇 David’s response Hi Negar, Sure, we can have a question on the fear of being alone / abandoned, and the many ways of overcoming this problem. Copying Rhonda, my co-host. It is covered in detail in the first part of my book, Intimate Connections. Methods we can discuss include: Dailly Mood Log Empathy Positive Reframing Deserted Island Fantasy Cognitive Flooding Please Predicting Sheet Experimental Technique Examine the Evidence Downward Arrow / Identify Self-Defeating Belief(s) (SDB) Cost-Benefit Analysis for SDB Hidden Emotion Technique Externalization of Voices (with Acceptance Paradox, Self-Defense Paradigm, and CAT, or Counter-Attack Technique) Identify and Explain the Distortions Warmly, david   Dear Dr Burns Thank you for all the effort you put into the podcasts, video clips and other material, which I find so helpful. They are a great addition to the books you have written. They are very inspiring and  life changing in my case. I have two questions that I would be very grateful if you would discuss in one of your ask David podcasts, if you think they are worth discussing. 2. Stan ask about living with an anxious or depressed person who can sometimes be argumentative or demanding. Do you have any advice for family members or housemates that live with a person suffering from anxiety or depression. No one wants to make the situation worse and maybe there are some suggestions. I know it can be very difficult living with someone who is anxious or depressed. An anxious or depressed person might sometimes be very demanding or argumentative. They might also sit around doing almost nothing all day or they might have odd sleeping hours for example.  They may make unreasonable requests or be overly sensitive and when hurt lash out at others for example. David’s Reply I would strongly recommend the podcast on “How to Help and How NOT to Help!” Will explain a bit more on the podcast. David   3. Transference of Negative Emotions? Why do we feel bad and how can we protects ourselves from not feeling down during and after spending social time with anxious and / or depressed people because they express anxious or depressing thoughts to us. It seems to me that we must start to believe the distorted negative thoughts that the anxious or depressed person transmits to us, so we start to feel the same negative emotions the other person feels. When this happens we might start to avoid contact with the other person which might make them feel worse. As always I would really appreciate your thoughts on the above two matters, if you think it is worth an Ask David question Thank you again. Kind regards Stan David’s Reply Negative feelings do not “transfer” between people. Only your own thoughts can affect the way you feel. Will explain more on the show! If you’ve been making the mistake of trying to “help,” it would make sense that you would feel upset, frustrated, maybe even angry. But it is your own dysfunctional way of interacting with the depressed or anxious person, and your own negative thoughts, that are 100% responsible for how you feel! But I will need to spell this out on the show! Thanks for listening today! Matt, Rhonda, and David

Dating, Part 3 Flirting Secrets, Safety, and More! Today we feature, Dr. Leigh Harrington and Dr. Angela Krumm, who will tell us how to flirt and date skillfully. Both Leigh and Angela are highly advanced TEAM CBT therapists and beloved friends and long-time members of our TEAM Community. Bio sketches for both go here. Include the idea that Leigh is a psychiatrist who specializes in social anxiety, relationship problems, bad habits, and depression, as well as traversing difficult situations with grace. Angela is a clinical psychologist and co-founder of the Feeling Good Institute in Mt. View, California. She specializes in social anxiety, teaching flirting skills, treating phobias, as well as health and lifestyle changes. Leigh and Angela, let me know what you want for your contact information at the end of the show notes, like email, website, whatever you prefer in case listeners want to contact you. Also, if you have recent pics we can use in the show notes, that’s cool, too, but not required. Rhonda began the show, as usual, with a warm-hearted endorsement, this one from a fan who greatly appreciated Dr. Taylor Chesney’s recent podcast on how to communicate with teenagers who may seem rebellious and out of control. The listener said it helped tremendously in her interaction with her 15 year old stepdaughter. I was not surprised, as Taylor is always filled with great wisdom and awesome advice in her teachings—something I also appreciate tremendously. The take-home message was to use the Five Secrets of Effective Communication, instead of trying to control them. Form a meaningful and loving relationship. It will pay off in the long run, and in the short run as well! Leigh began today’s podcast with a focus on safety when dating strangers, having fun on your dates, how to avoid dating the “wrong” people, how to tame your “dating addiction,” and how to set yourself up for success. Angela then taught us how to generate a fun and meaningful conversation with people you meet, and how to flirt and get things started in a positive direction. She explained that she went through a divorce when she was still young, and got lots of help in her flirting skills from several dear colleagues, including Maor Katz, Jacob Towery, and Stephen Pfleiderer. Mastering these skills was very helpful, and is now more than happy to share the incredible tips she picked up at that time, as well as her personal experiences, which culminated in a successful second marriage and family with an awesome hunk of a guy she met, using these skills. Leigh described how she works with patients who are shy by going out with them to public places where they can encounter and interact with strangers so as to confront and overcome inhibitions and intense anxiety. She said this kind of dramatic experience can have a sudden beneficial impact. She described taking a patient to a drugstore to ask a clerk about the best products for a toenail fungus. The clerk was exceptionally helpful and friendly. Leigh emphasized the power of sharing vulnerabilities to enhance connection with others. Angela said she does the same, going out with patients to approach strangers on the street with innocuous “openers” like asking questions, asking for recommendations, asking someone to settle a debate or something you’re puzzling over, finding a connection/something in common, or giving compliments. Although these things may seem overly easy to folks who have never struggled with social anxiety, they can be huge accomplishments for people who have struggled with social anxiety. For example, if you’re at the grocery store, you might position yourself near someone new and make a comment that seemingly could be directed at them or at no one at all. Something like, “There are so many types of apples. How does anyone pick?” These types of openers are low stakes and give the other person a chance to respond and strike up a conversation or simply move on. In general, she reminded us that it’s a cognitive distortion to assume that people will find out attempts to talk to them irritating or burdensome. Most people appreciate positive attention and like being helpful. Or, if you’re at the grocery store, you might say “Oh, there are so many types of apples here today. I’m not sure which type to buy.” You can also ask strangers for advice; this can be effective because people like to be helpful and it sets them at ease. Angela has prepared a guide describing many valuable flirting skills which you can see if you click here! She also included some invaluable dating tips on avoiding dating the wrong people, safety, and more, which you can see if you CLICK HERE Angela explained many additional key concepts, like Angela explained many additional key concepts, like False time-constraints (taking the pressure off others by keeping initial asks for time short; keeping initial dates short to leave others wanting more) How to decide how much to share when deciding to try to deepen emotional intimacy. Physical and emotional intimacy—how much should you share, and when? Angela suggested that you can use a hierarchy of sharing – testing the waters by sharing things that aren’t too vulnerable for you. Then observe their responses. If they respond respectfully, you can go a bit deeper. So, in a sense, you are doing experiments to guide the ship. This is less stressful than thinking you are being judged and that you have to “perform.” It’s important NOT to chase. For example, once you start dating someone, you might say, “I can only date you once per week.” Then the other person can ask, “Well, why not twice a week?” Now you’re the chased, and not the chaser! Angela says that “It’s always smart to be a little less than 100% available.” It’s great to work to keep your life full and active so you can set these limits genuinely. I have shared some of these tips with young people who are dating. Sometimes they protest and say, “I shouldn’t have to play games like that.” Here’s my (David's) answer: “In fact you DON’T have to play games. And if your current approach is working well for you, that’s cool. But if you find you’re getting left behind too often, you might have to rethink your strategies, and stop believing that you know all the answers! Humans are manufactured to certain specifications—they are very predictable. And, if you’re smart, you can use that knowledge to your advantage, instead of being gullible and overly idealistic. Leigh provided more invaluable information on the important topic of safety when dating. She does not give out her phone number, and especially not her address, for the first X number of dates. Also, you need to attend to your instincts, such as “I have a funny feeling about this person, but I’m not sure why!” LISTEN to that inner voice. She advises, if you feel SAFE you can have more fun, greater freedom, and more enjoyment. Angela said you can also ask for consent before you touch, but you can do it in a flirty way, such as: “You look like you want to kiss me. Is that right?” Of, “I know I’ll really regret it if I don’t ask you to kiss me.” Leigh advised noticing body language. Where are they looking? Notice their eyes, and make contact with their eyes. Their eyes will nearly always be sending a signal. Leigh said that early in a potentially exciting relationship, you may be waiting for a signal from the other person between dates. For example, have they called or texted you? But you don’t have to wait. You can take the initiative. For example, you can send them a good night text, and see if they respond. You can even do it a couple times. This is a good experiment to see if there are some embers burning while you fan the flames a little. Thanks for listening today! Rhonda and I want to thank Angela and Leigh for such thoughtful and illuminating teaching. We hope it brings some courage and love into your life! Leigh, Angela, Rhonda, and David  

Dating, Part 2 Do you need some love? Expert dating advice today! Today we feature two of our favorite people, Dr. Kyle Jones and Dr. Carly Zankman, who will discuss many aspects of dating. Both Kyle and Carly are advanced and highly effective TEAM CBT therapists with tons of experience in dating, and of course, in treatment. They share their personal experiences, as well as their considerable therapeutic expertise, in this highly energetic podcast. They cover a wide range of topics including ghosting, dealing with people who give you the run-around, negative self-fulfilling prophecies, Rejection Practice, how to avoid “chasing” (which Kyle calls the “Temptations Trap”) so you can be the one who’s being chased instead of the one who’s doing the chasing, the importance of being playful and how to make dating fun. The also encouraged avoiding some of the common kinds of negative self-talk, like “This date will suck,” or “I’ll always be alone,” or “People shouldn’t be so superficial,” etc. Kyle and David discussed Kyle’s first Sunday hike. Kyle had just been rejected by his boyfriend, and was feeling super down, telling  himself he was a reject and a loser. They describe how Kyle change his internal dialogue during the hike, and began to talk to himself as a winner, as an awesome, hot, sexy guy, which lifted his mood tremendously. Then David suggested a strategy designed to turn the tables on his ex-boyfriend: “Just go to a gay singles bar tonight and pick up some good looking guy and get laid! If you do that, I can guarantee your Ex will come crawling back, and then you can kick some sand in his face!” Abd that’s exactly what happened! David emphasized the importance of looking your best, in terms of clothing and appearance, when dating, as well as the resistance that some people have (mostly men) who insist they “shouldn’t have to play the gain.” I described my collaboration with a salesperson at the King of Prussia Bloomingdale’s named Kuniko Finkelstein when I was in clinical practice in Philadelphia. I used to refer my single guys to her for a “sex uniform,” and she would select extremely sexy and appealing outfits for them. We highlighted the self-centeredness and foolishness of telling yourself that women or men should love me for the way I am. They say, “I shouldn’t have to play the game.” Of course, you DON’T have to play the game, but if you don’t, you may and probably will end up alone! And once you DO learn how to “play the game,” your chances of finding a deep and meaningful love relationship go way up. About Kyle and Carly Kyle Jones, PhD, is a licensed clinical psychologist with a private telehealth practice serving clients throughout California. He is a Level 4 Advanced TEAM-CBT therapist and trainer.  Kyle specializes in helping individuals navigate anxiety, relationship challenges, and obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD), with a warm, and evidence-based TEAM approach. In addition to his clinical work, Dr. Jones co-leads The OCD Consultation Group, a monthly peer forum for clinicians dedicated to enhancing their skills in treating OCD. He also serves as adjunct faculty at Palo Alto University, where he teaches in both the master’s and doctoral programs in clinical psychology. A proud alumnus of UC Santa Barbara, Dr. Jones recently joined the alumni council for the Department of Psychological and Brain Sciences, mentoring students and supporting the next generation of mental health professionals. Carly Zankman, PsyD., is a Clinical Psychologist and Level 4 Advanced TEAM-CBT therapist and trainer based in Mountain View, California.  She specialized in working with younger adults and teens, helping them recover from anxiety and other mood challenges, such as social anxiety and fears of rejection and vulnerability, low self-esteem, trauma, and relationship issues.  Carly loves using TEAM-CBT and Exposure Methods to help her clients overcome their fears, create deeper, genuine connection, and live more authentic, joyous lives! Since 2021 the Feeling Great Book Club has been a way for people across the world to come together in learning and practicing powerful self-help CBT Tools in a group book club format guided by your transformative book Feeling Great and facilitated by Brandon a Vance and Heather Clague, two psychiatrists expert in TEAM CBT. The Awesome Feeling Great Book Club Returns! It includes: - Large Group Demonstrations - Small Group discussions and practice, facilitated by former book club members. - Some small groups specifically for those using the Feeling Great App   - Two 12 week online groups starting mid September and going until the first week in December, - meeting 80-minutes a session - either Mondays at 4pm or Wednesdays at 8:30am Pacific Time so they can be accessible to people all over the world. Cost is $240 for the series, sliding scale down to whatever you can afford. For more detail and to register, go to www.FeelingGreatTherapyCenter.com/Book-Club

Dating, Part 1 Navigating the Dreaded (But Sometimes Needed) Dating Apps! Today we started a series on one of my favorite topics: dating. When I was in clinical practice in Philadelphia, a large proportion of my patients self-identified as single, without partner, so this was one of my favorite problems to help people with, and why I wrote the book, Intimate Connections, which included my some of my personal experiences learning about dating during my medical school days at Stanford. Our special guests include our own TEAM CBT expert, Jacob Towery, MD, who presents the free annual two-day marathon on shyness called “Finding Humans Less Scary.” He will be presenting this program at Esalen as well from September 8 – 12, 2025. Check out the September 8 - 12 shyness workshop at the beautiful and dramatic Esalen in the Big Sur! We are also joined by two wonderful young ladies: Sydney, who graduated in 2024 from University of Santa Cruz, and Sophie, who recently graduated from UC Berkely. They will give us some first-hand experiences and suggestions in the navigation of dating apps. Jacob said that after his divorce in 2012, until 2020, he went on a lot of dating apps and met nearly 200 women this way, exploring both short and long-term types of dating. He said it is sometimes difficult to figure out what someone is really looking for on an app, whereas in person it is easier. The group described the tendency to treat people as objects and ghost them when you decide you’re not interested. He recommended, instead, to treat people with dignity and care, even if you’re not romantically interested in them. He said that whether you’ve been on one or many dates, don’t just ghost someone. Instead, you can let someone down gently if you aren’t interested. For example, at the end of a first date in which you don’t find yourself attracted to the other person, you could say “I didn’t feel a spark but I enjoyed our time together. Thanks for hanging out with me.” This will make it clear to the other person you won’t be asking for another date, but in a kind way, and prevents them wondering for days if you will ask them out again. In addition, he advised that initially, don’t just text people back and forth endlessly. Instead, get into real life ASAP. Meet them for coffee or ice cream or whatever would be fun. That way you can find out whether or not there’s a spark of interest. Jacob also recommended using a recent photo of yourself. If you use an older photo of yourself, the other person may be disappointed when they meet you! Jacob recommended being honest about what your interests are, and what you are looking for. Are you just looking for casual dating? Are you only looking for something that may evolve into a long term relationship? Are you interested in having children? What are your interests or hobbies? The group discussed many topics, like is it okay for a woman to take the initiative and ask people out they are interested in? It’s easy to get overwhelmed by having too many offers, too many to select from. And the whole process can be incredibly exhausting. How do you make conversation in a way that will turn the other person on and make them interested in you? What’s the secret? How do you overcome the fear of rejection? And what if you protect yourself from the fear of rejection by hiding personal information about yourself. For example, you may think that if you didn’t really open up to the other person, their rejection will be less painful because they didn’t see your so-called “real” self. Jacob emphasized the importance of being playful and creative when dating. People really like to have fun. Being overly serious or heavy can be a turn-off. Thanks for listening today! Future topics will include how to flirt, how to change the way you think when you’re rejected, making people chase you, how to get close, and more! Rhonda, Jacob, Sydney, Sophie, and David

What's the Latest on The Feeling Great App? Featuring Jason Meno and Adam Holman  Adam Holman and his loving cat! The featured photo is Jason Meno, also a cat lover! Today we focus on a number of exciting updates in the Feeling Great app, and are delighted to be joined by our esteemed colleagues, Jason Meno and Adam Holman who have recently created and launched to new V2 version of the Feeling Great chatbot, which includes greatly increased horsepower, in terms of rapid and dramatic reductions in 7 negative feelings, including feelings of depression, anxiety, guilt / shame, inadequacy, loneliness, hopelessness / discouragement, and anger. The latest data indicates reductions of more than 60% in all of these feelings within the first 90 minutes of chatbot use in most new users, and more than 70% reductions in repeat uses in the same amount of time. This is absolutely phenomenal and far surpasses my expectations 50 years ago when I first imagined and visualized this app. In addition, the new version of the app also causes fairly dramatic increases in seven positive feelings at the same time--a highly desirable feature that was lacking in most previous versions of the app. Jason and Adam also described a number of exciting, user-friendly features like two-way verbal communication with the app so you no longer have to type your dialogues (although you can if you prefer that mode.) Another new feature is long term memory, so the bot will remember you and be able to summarize your previous sessions, and more. In addition, to illustrate exactly HOW the app works, we did a live demonstration with Jason, who has been struggling with several of his negative thoughts, like "This app might not reach the hundred of millions of people around the world who need it." His belief in this thought was 80%, and the thought triggered strong feelings of hopelessness, sadness, guilt, anxiety, frustration, anger, and inadequacy.  This is a valid concern since we must rapidly boost sales if we hope to break even and stay in business, We tried a number of methods that weren't effective, following the app's philosophy of 'failing as fast as we can," including Positive Reframing and Paradoxical Magnification, that did not help at all. In fact, Positive Reframing simply triggered increased resistance. Then we tried a method that has been really helpful for Jason in the past, Externalization of Resistance, and he was able to successfully challenge all the really GOOD reasons to cling to his negative thoughts. At the end, his belief in the thought was reduced from 80% to 20%, which was satisfactory to Jason as he said that some worrying is realistic and keeps him on his toes continually adding amazing new features to the app. If you've been struggling with low self-esteem or negative feelings or low self-esteem, you might want to check the latest version of the Feeling Great app. You can take a free ride and check it out. You've got absolutely nothing to lose but a couple hours of your time, and a life of greater joy and happiness to gain. Rhonda, Jason, Adam, and I appreciate all of you, and thank you for joining us today!