Next in Media

In this episode of Next in Media, I sit down with Ryan Detert, CEO of Influential, the creator marketing company that was acquired by Publicis in 2024. Since the acquisition, Influential has seen massive growth, also acquiring Captiv8 to build out a global offering combining technology, services, and measurement all in one place. Ryan and I dig into how brands are structuring their creator teams, why a center of excellence led by media is where the most success is happening, and how technology (especially brand safety tools) has become the non negotiable foundation for scaling influencer campaigns. We also cover the measurement question that every marketer is asking: can you prove creator ROI? Ryan walks us through how MMMs are finally capturing creator value, why always on strategies beat tentpole campaigns, and how platforms like YouTube, TikTok, and Instagram are each fighting for attention in different ways. We get into the AI question too, from "slop" concerns to the future of creator likeness licensing and NIL rights. Ryan makes the case that AI will transform the back end of the business (speed, sourcing, brand safety) long before it replaces human creators in the feed. Plus, Ryan shares why the greatest ROI often comes from 100 micro creators rather than one mega deal. __________________________________________________ Key Highlights   🚀 Influential's Post Acquisition Growth: Since being acquired by Publicis in 2024, Influential has seen "massive multiples" of growth and also acquired Captiv8 to consolidate technology, measurement, and services into one global platform. 🛡️ Brand Safety as the Foundation: Ryan calls it the "Hippocratic Oath" of influencer marketing. With 15 million plus creators in their database, technology is essential for vetting creators across profanity, nudity, hate speech, and reputational risk before any campaign launches. 📊 Proving Creator ROI Through MMMs: Influencer marketing is a $35 billion TAM because it works. Ryan explains how media mix models are finally capturing creator value, and why brands need to break down creator spend by platform, paid vs. organic, and on vs. off social to get accurate measurement. 📺 The Platform Attention Wars: YouTube dominates long form because it pays creators the most. TikTok owns the meteoric rise. Instagram is aspirational. Meta is a messaging platform. Every platform has both a live strategy and a TV strategy, and all are competing for the same attention. 🤖 AI and Creator Content Transparency: AI is "not a dirty word" as long as it augments a real human. Ryan believes brands will embrace AI generated creator content only when NIL licensing ensures creators are compensated and consumers don't feel duped. 🎯 Micro Creators vs. Mega Deals: For brands with a $2 million budget, 100 targeted micro creators often outperform a single mega creator deal. Ryan compares it to buying one Super Bowl ad vs. going deep across cable networks. 🔄 Always On Beats Tentpole Campaigns: Brands that only activate around the Super Bowl, summer, and holidays are letting competitors eat their lunch in between. Long term creator partnerships drive both efficiency and authenticity. __________________________________________________ Resources & Next Steps 🌐 Learn more about Influential 🎧 Subscribe to Next in Media on Apple Podcasts __________________________________________________ Timestamps   00:00 Cold open on creator marketing growth and AI 01:13 Meet Ryan Detert, CEO of Influential 02:07 Life after the Publicis acquisition 04:04 Where creator teams fit inside brand organizations 06:04 Technology's role in scaling influencer marketing 07:00 Brand safety as the non negotiable first step 08:52 Managing creator campaigns at scale 09:44 Proving creator ROI through measurement and MMMs 12:43 YouTube on TV and the platform attention wars 16:11 Micro vs. macro creators and where the real ROI lives 18:22 AI transparency and the slop problem 20:46 Creator likeness, NIL, and AI generated content 23:05 Episodic content and always on brand partnerships 25:04 The future of creator marketing in three to five years

In this episode of Next in Media, I sit down with Adam Roodman, General Manager of Yahoo DSP, to talk about how Yahoo has quietly built one of the most compelling demand side platforms in the market. Adam walks through Yahoo's positioning in the ongoing DSP wars, why their identity graph and ConnectID solution give advertisers an edge in a world of increasing signal loss, and how the platform's deep roots in connected TV and live sports are creating new opportunities for performance marketers. We also get into Yahoo's massive supply path optimization efforts and why having fewer, higher quality paths to inventory is becoming a real differentiator. Adam and I also dig into the rapidly evolving world of agentic AI in advertising and what it actually means today versus the hype. He shares Yahoo's perspective on the protocol debate between A2A and MCP, why data quality and content accuracy are table stakes for AI agents, and how Yahoo is building an "AI librarian" function to ensure agents can operate with the right context. We also explore how CTV inventory has exploded on the platform, why live sports are changing the addressable advertising landscape, and Adam's take on whether AI will truly reduce headcount or just shift how teams operate. __________________________________________________ Key Highlights   🏆 Yahoo DSP in the DSP Wars: Adam explains why Yahoo is committed to the DSP business for the long haul, leveraging their unique combination of owned and operated properties, a massive identity graph, and deep integrations with premium supply. 🔐 Identity as a Competitive Moat: Yahoo's ConnectID and proprietary identity graph give advertisers access to durable, individual-based data across browsers, devices, and CTV, driving better performance in a signal-loss world. 📺 CTV and Live Sports Explosion: The amount of live sports on Yahoo's platform has doubled in nine months, and addressable, biddable premium CTV and audio inventory continues to surge, opening new opportunities for performance marketers. 🤖 Agentic AI and the Protocol Debate: Adam shares Yahoo's view on the A2A vs MCP protocol discussion, emphasizing that agentic AI is not a strategy in itself. It's about how you operate it and ensuring agents have access to accurate, contextual data. 📚 The AI Librarian Function: Yahoo is evolving from a "tech writer" approach to an "AI librarian" model, ensuring that content, documentation, and data fed into AI systems are high quality, accurate, and written with good context. 🔗 Supply Path Optimization at Scale: Yahoo has reduced tens of thousands of supply paths down to focused, high quality routes, improving auction dynamics and giving advertisers cleaner access to premium inventory. ⚡ AI Won't Replace Teams, It Will Reshape Them: Adam argues that AI adoption in advertising is less about replacing people and more about conviction and operational change, predicting that early movers will see compounding advantages. __________________________________________________ Resources & Next Steps   🌐 Learn more about Yahoo DSP and ConnectID 🔗 Follow Adam Roodman on LinkedIn 🎧 Subscribe to Next in Media on Apple Podcasts __________________________________________________ YouTube Chapter Timestamps   00:00 Cold open: identity, CTV, and agentic AI in advertising 01:46 IntentIQ ad: privacy-first identity resolution 02:10 Meet Adam Roodman, GM of Yahoo DSP 03:30 Yahoo's commitment to the DSP business 05:20 ConnectID and Yahoo's identity advantage 07:30 How identity drives better CTV performance 09:45 Live sports doubling on the platform 11:30 Supply path optimization and auction quality 13:40 The DSP wars and competitive positioning 16:00 Agentic AI: what it means today vs the hype 18:30 The A2A vs MCP protocol debate 20:45 Building the AI librarian function at Yahoo 23:00 Data quality as table stakes for AI agents 25:30 Will AI reduce headcount in advertising? 28:00 CTV inventory explosion and addressable audio 30:30 Advice for brands getting started with AI 33:00 Wrap up: Yahoo's Adam Roodman, Sabio, and IntentIQ

In this episode of Next in Media, I sit down with Philip Inghelbrecht, Co-Founder and CEO of Tatari, to unpack why one of the most innovative companies in TV advertising has built its entire thesis on a contrarian idea: that programmatic CTV is the wrong tool for most of the television market. Philip walks through how Tatari operates as a full infrastructure holding company, combining a demand-side platform, a supply-side solution called Upstream, and a privacy and identity layer called Vault. From day one, Tatari has argued that unlike display advertising, connected TV is dominated by a small number of premium publishers, and that automating around them rather than through open exchanges is the smarter path forward. Philip breaks down the $30 billion US CTV market, explaining how roughly half flows through programmatic channels and how up to half of that programmatic slice is fraud or low-quality inventory. The premium inventory that actually drives results, including sports, tentpole events, and top-tier streaming placements, lives almost entirely outside programmatic pipes and has historically required massive budgets and manual negotiation to access. That is exactly the gap Upstream was designed to close. By building custom, direct integrations with the five biggest TV publishers, including Disney, Warner Bros., NBCUniversal, and Paramount, Tatari has automated that direct buying process end to end, giving a much broader range of brands access to premium TV inventory without sacrificing pricing control, brand safety, or transparency.   Key Highlights 📡 Programmatic CTV Is Built on the Wrong Foundation: Philip explains why the SSP/DSP model designed for display advertising is a poor fit for connected TV, where 90% of streaming impressions come from the same top 10 publishers and the most valuable inventory never appears in an open exchange. 💰 The $30 Billion Reality Check: Of the roughly $30 billion US CTV market, about $15 billion flows through programmatic. Philip reveals that up to half of that programmatic pool is fraud or low-quality supply, meaning only $7 to $8 billion represents genuinely premium inventory. 🚀 Upstream Brings Automation to Direct TV Deals: Tatari spent nearly two years building one-to-one tech integrations with Disney, Warner Bros., NBCUniversal, and Paramount, enabling fully automated direct buys that preserve the brand safety and pricing control of traditional direct sales while eliminating manual overhead. 📺 Premium TV Is Now Within Reach for More Brands: Upstream shifts TV advertising from a big-budget brand privilege to something accessible to a much broader set of advertisers. Brands that never could have accessed premium placements now have a real path in, and early publisher partners have already seen doubled transaction volume during the test period. 🤖 AI in TV Advertising Has Promise But Real Limits: Philip is measured about AI's near-term impact on TV. He sees immediate wins in automating creative pre-approval and longer-term potential in data-driven yield optimization for publishers, but pushes back on the idea that AI will quickly transform the TV creative production process.   Resources & Next Steps 🔗 Follow Philip Inghelbrecht on LinkedIn 🌐 Explore Tatari 🎧 Subscribe to Next in Media on Apple Podcasts   Chapter Timestamps 00:00 Cold open - the programmatic CTV reality check 01:18 Introducing Philip Inghelbrecht and Tatari 01:58 Tatari's three-product infrastructure stack explained 03:30 Why programmatic does not fit connected TV 05:00 The problem with SSP aggregation in a concentrated market 06:17 How Upstream was born from supply-side tech 07:22 Breaking down the $30 billion CTV market 08:06 Half of programmatic CTV is fraud or low quality 09:44 Building direct integrations with Disney, Warner, NBCU, Paramount 10:17 How automation benefits publishers and speeds up transactions 11:45 Doubling volume with early publisher partners 12:28 Is TV right for SMBs? Philip's honest take 13:47 Where Upstream takes the market next 15:00 Using first-party data to drive higher publisher yield 16:21 Programmatic still has a role, just not the biggest one 17:17 What Dentsu and WPP's open path retreat signals 18:26 Will the walled gardens ever join Upstream? 18:52 What changes for existing Tatari advertisers 20:00 AI and the future of TV advertising 22:11 AI creative tools: impressive but still five days of editing 22:56 AI for creative pre-approval: what works today 24:16 First-party data capture is harder than it looks 25:36 Measurement, look-alike audiences, and machine learning loops 26:13 Closing thought - the biggest TV inventory is not in programmatic

In this episode of Next in Media, Mike Shields sits down with Leanne Perice, founder and CEO of Made by All, one of the creator economy's most distinctive talent management firms. Leanne shares how she built the company from the ground up over nine years, starting with a single $1,000 deal in 2014 and growing it into a global powerhouse that doubles revenue year over year. She explains how her early career at a celebrity endorsement agency gave her the blueprint for what great talent management looks like, and how she applied those lessons to an entirely new generation of digital creators. From signing Vine stars before the term 'creator economy' even existed, to opening a new office in Dubai, Leanne has built Made by All on the belief that creators deserve the same strategic investment as Hollywood's biggest names. Leanne also introduces her framework DASI (Distribution, Attention, Storytelling, and Impact) to explain what creators truly offer brands, and why so many marketers are still only tapping into the first letter. She opens up about the CMO turnover crisis slowing momentum in the creator space, why she launched Made by Us as a social storytelling studio, and why she believes YouTube's long-form monetization is the best opportunity in the market right now. She also gives her take on platforms like YouTube and TikTok brokering brand deals directly, the collision of Hollywood and Silicon Valley financial models, and what brands still get wrong about building a presence on social media. This episode is a must-listen for anyone at the intersection of media, marketing, and the creator economy.   Key Highlights 🚀 From $1,000 to Global: Leanne closed her first creator deal in 2014 for just $1,000. By 2015 to 2017, those deals were stacking to $10K, $15K, and $25K a week. Today, Made by All doubles its revenue annually and has just opened its first international office in Dubai. 🎯 The DASI Framework: Leanne coined the term DASI to capture the four things creators offer brands: Distribution, Attention, Storytelling, and Impact. She argues most brands stop at the 'D' and miss the deeper value creators can deliver when treated as true partners rather than just reach vehicles. 🎬 Creator Hollywood: While streaming platforms like Tubi and Netflix are building bridges toward creators, Made by All is betting on the reverse: bringing Hollywood-level IP and infrastructure to the creator world. Leanne describes this as 'Creator Hollywood,' a model she has been building the financial and conceptual vision for over the past eight months. 📣 The CMO Turnover Problem: Leanne points to constant executive turnover at major brands as one of the biggest obstacles to sustained creator partnerships. Her solution is relationship-first thinking, including getting creators in the room with senior brand teams and building personal connections that outlast any single campaign or budget cycle. 📺 Betting Big on YouTube: Leanne is pushing all of her clients toward long-form content on YouTube, calling it the best monetization opportunity in the creator space today. With more ad slots per video and growing ad revenue, she sees YouTube's long-form model as the foundation for sustainable creator businesses, especially as the platform increasingly dominates living room screens. 💡 Made by Us: Leanne's newest venture inside Made by All is a social storytelling studio that positions top creators as creative directors for brands. Rather than just placing clients in sponsorship deals, Made by Us helps brands develop viral content strategies, serialized IP, and stronger owned social platforms using the expertise of creators who understand audiences from the inside out. 🏆 The Power of the Collective: One of Leanne's standout success stories involves six Made by All clients who traveled to Las Vegas for a UFC fight with Paramount. They fulfilled their individual contracts, then spontaneously created one extra post together just for fun. That single unplanned post generated over 1.5 million likes, 30 million views, and 20,000 comments in the first 48 hours.   Resources & Next Steps 🔗 Follow Leanne Perice on LinkedIn 🌐 Explore Made by All 🎧 Subscribe to Next in Media on Apple Podcasts   Chapter Timestamps 00:00 Cold open: Creator economy and building household names 00:53 Intro: Mike sets up the episode 01:00 Meet Leanne Perice and Made by All 01:32 The origin story: nine years and one thesis 02:20 What makes Made by All different from a talent agency 03:10 Holistic creator management: more than just deals 04:30 Leanne's career path: from middle school dream to Hollywood 05:20 First job at a celebrity endorsement agency 05:50 Signing Vine stars before 'creator economy' was a term 06:10 The first $1,000 deal and stacking to $25K a week 07:00 How marketers have evolved in dealing with creators 07:40 Introducing the DASI framework 08:00 Made by Us: creators as creative directors for brands 09:00 Brand spend and the challenge of executive turnover 09:40 Going global: opening the Dubai office 11:10 Hollywood vs. creator economy: two separate financial models 11:50 Building the bridge to Creator Hollywood 12:40 Why Hollywood is still holding on but change is coming 13:20 Alarming speed of the creator world vs. legacy media 14:10 Brokering brand deals: management vs. agents 15:00 Cold calling and building brand relationships since 2014 15:50 Weekly email blasts to 5,000 brands and agencies 16:30 Why management has an edge over agents in the creator space 16:50 Streamlining brand deals with AI and tools like KOMI 18:00 When creators should lead the creative brief 19:00 The Made by Us social storytelling incubator 19:30 CMO turnover and the need for relationship-first brand strategy 20:00 How intentional creator relationships unlock better campaigns 21:00 Success story: UFC fight with Paramount, 30 million views 22:00 Qatar Airlines, Abu Dhabi, and global creator deals 22:20 The NFL's creator-first approach as a model for brands 23:00 YouTube and TikTok brokering deals internally 23:40 What Leanne wants to see improved: local and global platform metrics 25:00 YouTube's rise in the living room and long-form monetization 25:40 Pushing creators toward long-form content strategy 26:20 TikTok and Instagram moving into TV: will it work? 27:00 Short form on TV vs. the intentional social media experience 27:30 What brands still get wrong about social media 28:00 Closing thoughts and final takeaway

In this episode of Next in Media, I sit down live at the Kochava Summit in Sandpoint, Idaho, with Charles Manning, founder and CEO of Kochava. We go deep on one of the most pressing questions facing the industry right now: how profound is the shift to agentic advertising and AI-driven workflows? Charles argues it is not a decade-long evolution like programmatic was. It is breathtakingly faster, and the companies that understand how to use their first-party data as a competitive kernel, rather than leaking it to the walled gardens, are the ones that will come out ahead. He draws a compelling analogy: if programmatic changed the auction, AI is about to change the workflow.We also dig into Kochava's CTV journey, from its mobile app roots to building measurement tools adopted by LG, Samsung, Vizio, and Roku, and how the view-and-do combo between the TV screen and the mobile device is creating powerful new outcome-based measurement opportunities for brands. Charles breaks down what holding companies should fear (and fix), why the ad tech supply chain is due for serious consolidation, and why he predicts a wave of take-privates and roll-ups followed by a bonanza of public offerings over the next two years. He also introduces Station One, Kochava's integrative AI hub that acts like a Slack for AI workflows, designed to help teams transform how they work without giving up control of their data. Key Highlights:⚡ AI vs. Programmatic: Charles explains why the shift to agentic advertising is moving breathtakingly faster than programmatic did. While programmatic took over a decade to fully reshape the auction, AI is set to transform the entire workflow within the next 16 months.🔒 Protect Your Data: Charles identifies the two biggest risks brands face in the AI era. First, leaking proprietary data to platforms like Meta and making them smarter without benefiting your own organization. Second, failing to develop a unique "how" that cannot be replicated when everyone has access to the same AI tools.📺 CTV Measurement Evolution: Kochava's Atlas Performance product now powers CTV measurement for LG, Samsung, Vizio, and Roku by connecting the view on the television screen with the action on the mobile device, giving brands a clear picture of real business outcomes from their CTV spend.🤖 Station One, a Slack for AI: Charles introduces Kochava's Station One platform, an integrative AI hub that lets teams connect models, codify skills, build knowledge bases, and containerize workflows into shareable workspaces, all while keeping data ownership firmly in the hands of the brand.📉 Ad Tech Consolidation Is Coming: Charles predicts a significant collapse in the ad tech supply chain, with SSPs and DSPs already moving into each other's territory. He also foresees a wave of take-privates and roll-ups over the next 16 months, as companies use the cover of private ownership to restructure for the AI era, followed by a major IPO bonanza.💼 The Future Workforce: As AI handles more of the analytical grunt work, Charles argues the most valuable skill in the industry is shifting away from data science and toward clear communication. The ability to articulate your goals to an AI model is becoming the defining talent of the next generation of media professionals. Resources & Next Steps:🌐 Explore Kochava and learn more about Atlas Performance and Station One🔗 Follow Charles Manning on LinkedIn🎧 Subscribe to Next in Media on Apple Podcasts Chapter Timestamps:00:00 Cold open - AI disruption and the next 16 months01:00 Welcome and introducing Charles Manning of Kochava01:20 Revisiting a past conversation and what has changed01:45 Setting the stage - agentic advertising and the metaverse PTSD problem02:20 The next decade is really the next 16 months03:10 How fast is this vs. the programmatic shift?03:50 MCP, APIs, and how AI wraps the workflow05:20 Machine learning from reach optimization to business outcomes06:10 From post-campaign briefs to real-time workflow automation07:20 Why big platforms like Meta and Google got even stronger with AI08:00 The two biggest risks brands face in the AI era09:00 The "how" is as important as the "what" - competitive differentiation09:50 Can agencies avoid being commoditized by AI?10:20 Vertical AI and why domain expertise matters12:00 Measurement as an odometer vs. measurement as a decision engine13:20 The racing clutch analogy - agile measurement for agile goals14:00 Who fills the seats next? The shift from data scientists to communicators15:00 Tasks that get reallocated and skills that become more valuable16:00 How far away is autonomous agentic media buying?16:30 Guardrails, budget constraints, and agent managers17:10 Introducing Station One - Kochava's AI workflow hub18:10 How teams transition from human workflows to AI-assisted execution19:00 Kochava's CTV journey - from mobile app roots to the living room20:10 The 80-inch mobile device and why OEMs saw the pattern21:20 Why OEMs pushed back and how Atlas Performance was born22:10 LG, Samsung, Vizio, Roku - how they became Kochava customers23:00 Is CTV performance TV? How should we measure it?23:40 The view-and-do combo - TV impressions and mobile actions24:10 QSR and loyalty programs - CTV driving real consumer behavior25:00 Why AI optimization has not hit CTV the way it has Meta and Google26:00 Station One as the connective tissue for CTV and the broader ecosystem27:20 Will more ad dollars flow to television? Charles says yes, and soon28:30 Audience Q&A - how to prove CTV incrementality to your CFO29:00 The Machine Zone story and what it taught Charles about media mix31:30 Why media mix modeling finally works in the AI era32:10 What happens to ad tech? The daisy chain gets disrupted33:00 SSPs and DSPs are already moving into each other's territory34:00 More money in media, less ad tax - where the dollars go next35:00 Premium inventory, exclusive access, and the sports betting parallel36:10 IO-level programmatic guaranteed - a bold prediction37:00 The biggest obstacle ahead - take-privates, roll-ups, and an IPO bonanza38:30 Wrap-up and closing thoughts

This week on Next in Media, I sat down with Matt Spiegel, EVP of Marketing Solutions Growth Strategies at TransUnion, to unpack one of the most pressing questions in advertising right now: what's actually changed since cookies started disappearing and privacy laws started piling up? And just as importantly, what hasn't changed? Matt brings a refreshingly practical perspective to the conversation, explaining how disconnected data infrastructure remains the biggest obstacle for most brands, even as everyone races to adopt AI-powered marketing. He breaks down why walled gardens still have an inherent advantage, how signal loss is forcing marketers to rethink their strategies, and why the industry's obsession with the "easy button" might be holding progress back.We also tackled some uncomfortable truths about where the industry is headed. Matt shared his thoughts on agentic advertising and whether bots will really replace media planners, the noisy MarTech landscape that's overwhelming CMOs, and why he believes the next economic downturn could trigger massive layoffs in marketing and advertising. Throughout our conversation, Matt emphasized that while the tools and technology are evolving rapidly, the fundamentals of good marketing haven't changed. It's about understanding your customers, connecting your data, and applying that intelligence at scale. This is a conversation for anyone trying to make sense of the chaos in modern marketing, wondering how to navigate identity resolution in a post-cookie world, or just trying to figure out which AI tools are actually worth the hype._______________________________________________________Key Highlights🔌 The Infrastructure Problem: Most brands lack connected data ecosystems. Their CRM, transaction records, and marketing databases exist in silos, making it nearly impossible to achieve the precision marketing everyone's chasing.🏰 Walled Gardens Still Win: Large platforms have a scaled, dimensional view of consumers that few brands can match. The "easy button" appeal is real, but it comes at the cost of transparency and cross-platform measurement.🤖 AI Won't Replace Humans (Yet): Agentic advertising is coming and will automate significant portions of media buying, but Matt believes we'll keep humans in the loop. The idea that bots will fully control everything is overdone, at least for now.📊 Data Hygiene Still Matters: Simple things like ensuring "Matt" and "Matthew" are recognized as the same person remain real obstacles. Many organizations are still working through basic data cleaning before they can even think about advanced AI applications.📉 Layoffs Are Coming: Matt predicts the next economic downturn will trigger massive job losses in marketing and advertising as automation takes over manual tasks. New roles will emerge, but there will be a painful transition period.📈 The Measurement Mess: Between attribution debates, walled garden metrics, and inconsistent cross-platform views, CMOs are struggling to prove ROI. The complexity isn't just technical, it's political inside organizations.🎯 Outcomes Over Tactics: Despite all the noise around cookies, signal loss, and AI, the fundamentals haven't changed. Great marketing still comes down to understanding consumers holistically and applying that intelligence strategically.⚡ It's a Noisy Time: Marketers are juggling CIOs demanding new tech, CFOs questioning results, platforms promising exclusive deals, and measurement reports that don't add up. It's chaotic, but navigable with the right analytical mindset._______________________________________________________Resources & Next Steps🌐 Learn more about TransUnion Marketing Solutions🔗 Follow Matt Spiegel on LinkedIn🎧 Subscribe to Next in Media on Apple Podcasts_______________________________________________________YouTube Chapter Timestamps00:00 Intro -- Consumer insights and AI limitations00:35 The complexity of modern marketing01:00 Episode introduction and Matt Spiegel01:34 Where we are in the identity and data landscape02:15 The marketer's challenge -- Disconnected data03:45 Why data infrastructure is the core problem05:20 The reality of data hygiene issues06:30 Signal loss and privacy regulations07:45 Platform advantages in identity resolution09:10 Walled gardens vs transparency11:00 The programmatic ecosystem revisited12:40 How agencies are investing in data capabilities14:20 The measurement and attribution challenge16:00 AI's impact on marketing decisions17:30 Why consumer insights still matter18:45 The current state of MarTech noise20:15 Startup consolidation and hype cycles21:50 Will agentic advertising replace media planners?23:20 Keeping humans in the loop24:40 The coming wave of marketing layoffs26:10 New opportunities emerging from automation27:30 The complexity brands face daily28:50 CMO tenure and pressure29:40 Final thoughts and wrap-up

In this episode, I sit down with David Freeman, who just launched Kynetic Media Partners after an incredible 15-year run at CAA. David was one of the first executives I knew who truly understood the business impact of digital talent and the creator economy - back when most people in Hollywood were still asking "why do you care about that?" He walks us through his journey from starting CAA's digital department in 2010 (when they were the "redheaded stepchildren" of the agency) to today, where the creator economy is tracking toward $37 billion by 2027. Now he's building the infrastructure to turn fandom into real enterprise value.We dive deep into how tech companies have become Hollywood, the rise of mega-creators like MrBeast who are building billion-dollar businesses, and how AI is about to revolutionize content creation in ways we can barely imagine. David shares insights on creators who are successfully building mini media empires (think Dude Perfect, Rhett & Link, Jesser), the critical need for proper operators and infrastructure around talent, and why we're likely to see consolidation and big exits in the creator space. It's a masterclass in understanding where media, culture, and commerce are headed.---Key Highlights🚀 The Big Leap: After 15 years building and leading CAA's digital talent division, David left to launch Kynetic Media Partners - focused on turning fandom into enterprise value with infrastructure, strategic capital, and expertise.💡 From Stepchildren to Stars: In 2010, digital departments were "redheaded stepchildren" at agencies. Today, the creator economy is tracking toward $37 billion by 2027, and tech companies have become Hollywood.🎬 The MrBeast Phenomenon: David breaks down how Jimmy Donaldson built a billion-dollar business with deeper engagement than traditional media, and why he represents the future of entertainment.🤖 AI Revolution Ahead: The potential for AI to transform content creation is massive - from animation that rivals Pixar to community-driven development cycles that release new episodes in weeks, not years.🏢 Mini Media Empires: Creators like Dude Perfect (with their $100M investment), Rhett & Link, Dahr Mann, and Jesser are building real media companies - but success requires proper operators, not just talent.📊 Infrastructure Matters: The biggest gap in the creator economy isn't talent or fandom - it's the lack of infrastructure, operators, and strategic capital to help creators scale into sustainable businesses.🔮 Consolidation Coming: Expect to see legacy media companies acquire creator businesses, channel aggregation (like old cable models), and agencies potentially hosting their own upfronts with talent networks.🎯 Where Culture Lives: The creator space isn't just about entertainment - it's where culture is being born, and brands need to understand that talent is now distribution.---Resources & Next Steps🔗 Follow David Freeman on LinkedIn🎧 Subscribe to Next in Media on Apple Podcasts---YouTube Chapter Timestamps00:00 Cold open - Keyman risk and YouTube dominance00:55 Episode intro - David Freeman and Kynetic Media Ventures01:24 Meet David Freeman, founder of Kynetic Media Ventures01:49 Why David left CAA after 15 years02:26 The creator economy arbitrage moment04:00 Turning fandom into enterprise value05:30 The evolution from digital talent to creator economy06:32 How tech became Hollywood07:50 YouTube vs traditional talent discovery08:30 Legacy media in the early innings of YouTube09:00 Madison Avenue grapples with YouTube's TV dominance10:20 Creators must build IP and brands11:30 Netflix vs YouTube - the talent war13:00 IShowSpeed's Speed Goes Pro - ownership over distribution14:30 Mr. Beast and the Amazon deal16:10 Amazon's creator strategy beyond Prime18:20 Making creator partnerships easier at scale20:00 CMOs admit 20-30% of spend lacks attribution21:20 The most dynamic time in media history23:20 AI hype vs AI reality25:00 AI as a tool controlled by humans26:00 The CAA Vault and name, image, likeness27:10 How many creators can become media moguls?28:20 Building teams - good operators win30:00 Will legacy media buy creator companies?31:10 The rebirth of networks and agency upfronts32:10 Wrap-up and what's next

In this episode of Next in Media, I sit down with Kiri Masters, host of the Retail Media Breakfast Club podcast, to explore the biggest shifts happening in retail media advertising. We dive into the recent announcement about ads coming to ChatGPT and what that means for brands trying to meet consumers where they are. Kiri shares her perspective on whether AI-powered shopping will truly disrupt the retail media landscape - and why she's optimistic that LLM-based ads could actually be more relevant and less annoying than traditional formats. We also unpack the Walmart-Google partnership and discuss what it signals about the future of conversational commerce.Beyond the AI conversation, we tackle some of the industry's most pressing questions. Will we see consolidation in retail media networks this year? Can shoppable TV finally gain traction? And what happens when offsite retail media faces competition from platforms with their own transactional data? Kiri brings both historical context - including a fascinating story about Piggly Wiggly's self-service revolution - and forward-looking insights about how brands and retailers need to collaborate differently. Whether you're a marketer navigating this space or just curious about where AI and commerce intersect, this conversation offers a clear-eyed look at what's real, what's hype, and what's coming next._______________________________________________Key Highlights 🤖 Ads in AI Assistants: Kiri explains why she's optimistic that ads in LLMs like ChatGPT could actually enhance the user experience rather than detract from it - as long as they're contextually relevant and leverage the deep personal insights these platforms have.🛒 The Walmart-Google Partnership: Why retailers want to maintain control as the merchant of record even as they experiment with AI-powered shopping surfaces, and what this means for the competitive landscape between retailers and tech giants.📊 Amazon's Retail Media Dominance: How Amazon has trained brands to expect exceptional reporting and data-driven insights, creating a high bar that other retailers struggle to match - and why CFOs love the platform's transparency.🔄 Consolidation is Coming: With over 250 retail media networks globally but brands only wanting to work with 5-7 partners, Kiri predicts we'll see more partnerships like Macy's and Amazon this year as the market rationalizes.💡 The Piggly Wiggly Lesson: A fascinating historical parallel about how the first self-service grocery store in 1916 got consumers to change behavior by passing savings directly to them - a lesson for how AI shopping might need to work.⚠️ Offsite Media at Risk: If AI-powered shopping takes off, offsite retail media networks could face serious competition as LLMs gain access to transaction and intent data that retailers previously controlled.🎯 Back to Category Growth: Kiri advocates for retailers and brands to move beyond performance-focused land grabs and return to collaborative trade marketing strategies that grow entire categories together._______________________________________________Resources & Next Steps 🎙️ Follow Kiri Masters and subscribe to Retail Media Breakfast Club🎧 Subscribe to Next in Media on Apple Podcasts_______________________________________________Chapter Timestamps 00:00 Introduction - Ads in AI assistants00:40 This week on Next in Media01:00 Meet Kiri Masters of Retail Media Breakfast Club01:40 Ads coming to ChatGPT and conversational search02:10 How brands follow consumers to new platforms03:30 Will AI commerce disrupt retail media?04:00 Will ads in LLMs work like Google and Facebook?04:40 The importance of trust in AI assistants05:00 Why AI ads could be better than traditional ads06:00 Context and relevance in LLM advertising07:00 The trust equation in conversational AI08:00 Understanding AI ads won't necessarily suck08:10 Walmart and Google partnership announcement08:30 Are people ready to shop through AI interfaces?09:00 Building trust through repeated exposure to LLMs09:40 Story time - buying an iPod on eBay in 199911:00 Testing Instacart on ChatGPT11:40 Sao CTV ad12:40 Why Walmart partnered with Google13:20 Retailers want to remain merchant of record14:40 Can every retailer integrate with AI platforms?15:20 Consumer choice and retailer selection criteria16:00 The Piggly Wiggly story - self-service revolution17:00 Consumer behavior change requires value proposition17:40 State of retail media today18:20 Amazon's dominance in retail media19:20 Offsite retail media and in-store opportunities20:00 How AI threatens offsite retail media networks20:40 Open web and retail media advertising21:30 Competition for audience data between retailers and LLMs22:20 Could LLMs build offsite media businesses?23:10 Will we see consolidation in retail media networks?24:00 The Macy's and Amazon partnership example24:40 Shoppable TV and CTV shopping outlook26:00 How AI shopping might impact retail media26:30 Moving beyond land grabs to category growth27:20 Wrap-up and thanks

In this week's episode of Next in Media, I sat down with Ian Trombetta, SVP of Social Influencer and Content Marketing for the NFL. We dove deep into how the league is winning the creator economy by building long-term partnerships with rising stars like Kai Cenat, Sketch, and Mr. Beast. Ian shared how his team identifies talent before they blow up, creating authentic relationships that benefit both the creators and the NFL's global reach. What struck me most was how the NFL isn't just throwing money at big names - they're investing in momentum and cultural relevance, finding creators who genuinely connect with the next generation of fans.Ian also walked me through the challenges of scaling this strategy globally, the lessons learned from his time at Red Bull and Activision, and what it takes to work with YouTube on their first-ever NFL broadcast. We discussed the NFL's massive Super Bowl creator activation - with over 150 creators on the ground in San Francisco - and how they're using everything from cooking competitions to fashion shows to showcase the culture around the game. Ian's philosophy is clear: let creators be themselves, provide them with massive value and exposure, and the authentic engagement will follow. It's a masterclass in modern brand building._________________________________________________________________Key Highlights:🎯 Finding Creators Early: The NFL identifies rising talent before they explode - working with Kai Cenat for 5-6 years before he became a household name. Ian's team stays ahead of dashboards and media coverage by staying deeply connected to culture and momentum.🤝 Long-Term Relationships Over One-Offs: The NFL's strategy focuses on building sustained partnerships with creators, offering them massive exposure through linear TV, streaming platforms, and owned channels in exchange for authentic engagement with their communities.🌍 Global Creator Strategy: With international growth as a major priority, the NFL works with global creators like Mr. Beast and IShowSpeed, plus local creators in markets like Brazil and Dublin to introduce football to new audiences worldwide.🏆 Super Bowl Creator Takeover: Over 150 creators will be on the ground in San Francisco for Super Bowl week, participating in cooking competitions (NFL Season), fashion shows, and cross-promotions with NBC and the Olympics - the biggest creator activation yet.🎮 Gaming Lessons from Activision: Ian emphasized that brands underestimate the quality bar required for gaming platforms like Roblox and Fortnite - you need dedicated studios creating sustained content, not just one-time pop-ups.📺 Let Creators Be Themselves: The NFL's philosophy is to never force creators into a box. Great content comes from letting them engage their audiences authentically while naturally weaving in the NFL, not force-feeding promotional content.🚀 YouTube's First NFL Broadcast: Ian shared insights from working with YouTube on their inaugural NFL game broadcast, highlighting the collaboration between traditional sports media and digital platforms.🤖 Navigating the AI Challenge: Ian acknowledged that AI's impact on content creation is evolving daily, and staying ahead of how platforms and creators use AI is one of the biggest ongoing challenges for the league._________________________________________________________________Resources & Next Steps:🎧 Subscribe to Next in Media on Apple Podcasts_________________________________________________________________YouTube Chapter Timestamps:00:00 Cold open - Creator opportunities and AI evolution00:38 Episode intro and playoff season context01:02 Meet Ian Trombetta - SVP of Social Influencer and Marketing at NFL01:36 Ian's role - Social media, influencer marketing, and content creation02:52 Why the NFL needs creators beyond traditional TV04:20 Creators as entry points for casual and younger fans05:15 Global creator strategy - No borders with Mr. Beast and IShowSpeed06:30 How to find the right creators for your brand07:45 Building long-term relationships with rising creators08:40 The Kai Cenat story - 5-6 years of partnership10:12 The secret sauce - Getting in early and offering value11:30 Letting creators be themselves for authentic engagement13:05 Understanding creator momentum and culture14:20 The Sketch example - Catching viral moments early16:40 Live streamers and the endurance of daily content creation18:25 Brand partnerships and measuring ROI from organic reach20:10 Red Bull background - Building communities and content22:30 Activision lessons - Community is everything in gaming24:29 Parallels between gaming communities and NFL fandom25:23 The gaming challenge - Quality bar and sustained presence26:23 Roblox and Fortnite - You need a full studio operation27:14 Flag football, mobile games, and the Olympics opportunity27:26 Super Bowl preview - 150+ creators on the ground28:12 NFL Season cooking competition and fashion shows28:53 Cross-promotion with NBC and the Olympics29:13 Showcasing culture and music around the NFL29:27 Working with YouTube on their first NFL broadcast29:59 Biggest challenge - Navigating AI in content and platforms

I never thought I'd be running a 70-employee media company built around two guys who started making Pokemon sketches in their bedroom. But here we are. When I stepped into the role of CEO of Smosh in early 2023, I wasn't just taking on a business - I was stewarding a 20-year legacy that spans five active YouTube channels, a 15-person cast, and millions of fans worldwide. My background in talent management taught me to think about creators as brands, and that's exactly how I approach Smosh today. We're not just making content - we're building a sustainable entertainment company that respects both the comedy at our core and the business fundamentals that keep us growing.What excites me most is how we're redefining what digital-first entertainment looks like. We've invested heavily in 4K production to meet the demands of YouTube's living room experience, and we're launching ambitious projects like Hospital - a semi-scripted improv show that blends SNL-style comedy with Grey's Anatomy parody. But beyond the content itself, I'm passionate about changing how brands work with creators. Too many advertisers still treat us like we're amateurs in bedrooms, when the reality is we have the infrastructure, the talent, and the audience insights to deliver campaigns that traditional media can't match. We're proving that collaboration over competition and authenticity over scripts is the future of entertainment - and the future is happening right now. ---Key Highlights 🚀 From Talent Manager to CEO: How working with Anthony Padilla at Press Alike and 15 years in the creator economy led to becoming CEO of a 70-employee media company with five active YouTube channels and 15 cast members.📺 YouTube's Living Room Revolution: Why Smosh invested heavily in 4K production, upgraded cameras and servers, and how YouTube is slowly separating TV-viewing experiences from search engine content - with bold predictions about the platform's future.🎭 Hospital Launches in January: A groundbreaking semi-scripted improv show where cast members play doctors who must swap out when they break character - blending SNL-style comedy with Grey's Anatomy parody, designed for viewers who've never heard of Smosh.🤝 Collaboration Over Competition: Why Smosh's social team gets lunch with Mythical, their production manager grabs coffee with Dropout, and the entire creator economy thrives when digital entertainment companies share tips instead of treating each other as enemies.💰 Owning Your CMS is Power: Lessons from the MCN era about the importance of maintaining your own content management system, controlling sales processes, and working directly with Google to craft bespoke advertising deals around major programming events.📢 The Brand Partnership Problem: Why traditional TV commercials are terrible, how marketing agencies waste millions on creative that doesn't convert, and why Smosh only partners with brands they sincerely use - building authentic campaigns instead of following scripts.⏰ Treat Creators Like Studios: The frustrating reality that brands still don't understand production schedules, kill fees, or professional timelines - and why the same respect given to Fox or NBC should apply to digital-first media companies.🎯 Accessible Content Strategy: How shows like Do You Know Your Duo and Culinary Crimes are designed so new viewers can jump in without knowing Smosh's 20-year history - making great improv and comedy accessible to superfans and first-time watchers alike. ---Resources & Next Steps 🎥 Watch Smosh on YouTube🔗 Follow Alessandra Catanese on LinkedIn🎧 Subscribe to Next in Media on Apple Podcasts ---Chapter Timestamps 00:00 Introduction - Smosh's evolution from bedroom to boardroom00:38 Early days of covering Smosh at Media Week01:25 Meet Alessandra Catanese - from talent manager to CEO02:01 The Maker Studios era and YouTube economy origins03:14 15 years of experience leading to this role03:43 Working with Anthony and Ian on the vision05:37 Smosh 101 - five channels and 15 cast members07:04 Full-fledged merch business and cast-driven products07:51 Making content accessible without knowing the lore08:51 Hospital show - the January improv comedy launch09:20 SNL meets Grey's Anatomy with character breaks10:22 YouTube on TV and the living room experience11:05 Investing in 4K production for Summer Games12:10 Honoring traditional TV conventions on YouTube12:46 Predicting YouTube's TV vs search engine split14:40 Digital and traditional becoming the same thing15:26 The MCN era and owning your CMS18:07 Google's special care and bespoke deals19:14 MCN collaboration lessons and creator networks20:11 YouTube was founded on collaboration20:50 We don't have competition, we have collaborators21:36 No monopoly on the internet22:34 Growing the creator advertising economy23:48 Educating advertisers on metrics that matter24:19 Sincere representation philosophy with brands24:52 Brands need smarter creative strategies26:59 Why TV commercials are terrible today27:40 YouTube provides instant, rich data28:40 Working with newer vs legacy brands29:09 Brands still see creators as bedroom amateurs29:50 Production costs and treating creators professionally30:29 Progress in podcast ad reads and trust31:07 Wrap-up and final thoughts

I sat down with Evan Shapiro, the legendary media cartographer and author of the must-read substack Media War and Peace, to kick off 2026 with bold predictions about where our industry is heading. Evan didn't hold back as he unpacked the tension between AI-driven automation and the raw authenticity that makes creators so powerful. We explored how scale and reach are becoming vanity metrics, while fandom and engagement are what truly matter now. From Under Armor to Procter & Gamble, major brands are launching their own content channels and becoming creators themselves rather than just renting influencers. This isn't your typical brand content strategy, this is a fundamental shift in how marketing dollars flow.We also tackled the elephant in the room: YouTube's dominance and whether anyone can challenge it, the explosive growth of retail media networks like Walmart and Amazon, and why traditional media companies like Disney and Warner Brothers are finally embracing platforms they once feared. Evan predicts the AI bubble will burst in 2026, not because the technology isn't valuable, but because it won't be the sexy revolution everyone's hyping. Instead, AI will improve things behind the scenes with targeting optimization and efficiency gains. Plus, we discussed the rise of social media politicians and how $2.5 billion in political ad spending could fundamentally change addressable TV advertising. This conversation is packed with insights you won't want to miss. Key Highlights 🎯 Engagement Over Reach: Scale and reach are now vanity metrics. The biggest shift in the creator economy is toward fandom and deep engagement rather than pure subscriber counts. Mr. Beast is the exception, creators like Amelia Dimoldenberg and Sean Evans prove that smaller, highly engaged audiences drive better business results.🏢 Brands Become Creators: Under Armor, Procter & Gamble, and L'Oreal are launching their own content channels and production companies. Instead of hiring influencers, brands will convert ad spend into creating their own entertainment channels, following the Barbie and LEGO model of becoming lifestyle brands.📺 Traditional Media's Creator Problem: Disney still treats YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok as brochure ware with trailers and promotional content. In 2026, major studios will finally go all-in on real content for these platforms, similar to how they eventually launched Disney+ after years of resistance.🤖 The AI Bubble Will Burst: The hype around AI making movies, commercials, and scripts will deflate in 2026. AI's real value lies in boring but crucial improvements to targeting, optimization, and efficiency, not in replacing creative talent. Disney's $1.5 billion investment in OpenAI signals they're getting ahead of this shift.🛍️ Retail Media's Next Wave: We're in the first half of the first inning of shoppable TV. Walmart's integration of Vizio will make them the second-largest retail media network after Amazon. This enables a whole new class of TV advertisers and unlocks budgets that never intersected with traditional media spending.📱 Instagram and TikTok Launch CTV: Evan predicts both Instagram and TikTok will launch connected TV platforms in 2026. When Oracle takes control of TikTok in the US, a television product is inevitable. YouTube's success with shorts on TV proves short-form content can work on the big screen.💰 YouTube's Branded Content Explosion: Branded deals embedded in YouTube videos grew over 50% in the first half of 2025, becoming the fastest-growing segment of YouTube's ad economy. With dynamic insertion launching for branded content in 2026, this will dramatically accelerate and become more scalable.🗳️ Political Ads Transform CTV: The $2.5 billion political ecosystem will spend on hyper-local, outcome-based ads in 2026. This wave of aggressive buyers targeting at the neighborhood level will change television advertising at the genetic level and unlock the true promise of addressable TV. Resources & Next Steps 🔗 Follow Evan Shapiro on LinkedIn🎧 Subscribe to Next in Media on Apple Podcasts

This week on Next in Media, I sat down with Shane Atchison, CEO of Zaaz Collective, and Seth Gordon, a film director and co-founder of Zaaz. We dove into their mission to help micro and mid-level creators (those with 5,000 to 100,000 followers) think and act like media companies. With 96% of creators making minimum wage or less, Shane and Seth saw an opportunity to build a collective where creators could access the data, tools, and intelligence typically reserved for top-tier talent. They shared how Zaaz is using AI-powered analytics, audience insights, and comments-to-commerce strategies to help creators maximize their impact and earnings.I was fascinated by their approach to solving the creator-brand disconnect. Shane explained how most creators have no idea what to charge for brand deals and often feel they get screwed on their first partnerships. Zaaz addresses this with transparent pricing data, engagement rate benchmarks, and personalized AI language models trained on each creator's unique content and audience. Seth brought a compelling perspective from the traditional entertainment world, noting how the $50 million ad model is dying and the future is much more atomized and creator-led. We also explored their plans for Q1 2025, including creator-to-creator events in Brazil and launching new tools for content transcription and multi-platform analytics._________________________________________________________________Key Highlights💡 The Creator Economy Gap: 96% of creators are making minimum wage or less despite the industry growing to $500 million by 2030 with 35% year-over-year growth in media spend.🤝 The Collective Model: Zaaz operates as a membership-based collective where creators share anonymized data on brand deals, pricing, and engagement rates so everyone can learn what's a fair deal.📊 Audience Intelligence: The platform unifies analytics across all social platforms in one dashboard and uses AI to analyze comments for purchase intent, brand opportunities, and genuine engagement.💬 Comments to Commerce: Zaaz filters through thousands of comments to surface the ones that matter, like when someone asks "what shirt are you wearing?" turning those into affiliate link opportunities.🤖 Personalized AI Language Models: Each creator gets their own AI agent trained on their content, comments, and audience data, plus access to collective intelligence from other creators' successful strategies.🎯 Brand Discovery Done Right: Zaaz pushes dynamic media kits to discovery platforms so creators are represented with real-time data on momentum, engagement rates, and audience quality.🎬 The Future is Atomized: Seth Gordon explained how the traditional $50 million ad campaign model is dying, and the future belongs to niche, specialized creator-led content reaching targeted audiences.🚀 Launching in 2025: Zaaz is hosting creator-to-creator events in Brazil and the U.S., launching AI-powered content transcription tools, and helping creators who "don't realize they're creators" move into the space._________________________________________________________________Resources & Next Steps🌐 Explore Zaaz Collective🔗 Connect with Shane Atchison on LinkedIn🎧 Subscribe to Next in Media on Apple Podcasts_________________________________________________________________YouTube Chapter Timestamps00:00 Cold open - Building Zaaz for creators00:36 Introducing Shane Atchison and Seth Gordon02:02 What is Zaaz Collective?03:00 How the collective model works04:32 The "I got screwed" problem for creators06:07 Seth on protecting creators in the wild west07:07 Who are the target creators? (5K-100K followers)08:32 Audience analytics across platforms10:52 Comments to commerce strategy13:04 Brand discovery and connecting the two sides15:19 Seth on knowing your audience18:32 The value of micro influencers20:23 Seth on Warner Bros and the dying $50M ad model22:10 Streamlining media spend in the creator economy24:51 Personalized AI language models for creators27:00 Q1 plans: Launching in Brazil and creator events28:29 Wrap-up and thanks

This week I had the chance to sit down with two fascinating guests who are at the forefront of bridging the worlds of digital performance marketing and traditional television advertising. Nick Fairbairn, VP of Growth Marketing at Chime, and Andy Schonfeld, CRO at Tatari, walked me through how they've transformed Chime from a pure digital-first, DTC neobank brand built on social and search into a sophisticated advertiser that runs television campaigns with the same performance mindset they apply to Meta and Google. Their partnership has evolved from small linear TV tests six years ago to a comprehensive full-funnel TV strategy that blends brand building with direct response metrics.Nick and Andy shared incredible insights into the evolution of performance TV, from navigating the COVID-era inventory opportunities to understanding why linear TV still matters even as streaming dominates the conversation. They explained how Chime approaches television with a portfolio strategy, balancing premium reach moments like live sports with more targeted direct response placements, and why creative and media planning have become the "new targeting" in a world where precise one-to-one identification remains expensive and imperfect. We also dove into the challenges of measuring TV in a fragmented landscape, the role of AI-driven creative, and whether shoppable TV will actually move the needle or remain a marginal innovation. Key HighlightsHere's a shorter version:📺 From Walled Gardens to TV: Chime shifted from 80% Facebook/Google spend to treating TV as a performance channel, not just brand awareness.🚀 COVID's Opportunity: The pandemic opened premium TV inventory at discounts as major advertisers exited, accelerating streaming adoption for performance marketers.🎯 Performance TV Defined: Measuring full-funnel impact from awareness to account openings using spike attribution, MMM, and Tatari's platform.⚡ Linear Still Works: Live sports and big moments deliver results at 75% off rate card for brands buying real-time through platforms like Tatari.💰 The DR Valley of Death: Pure direct response TV hits limits, requiring investment in premium brand moments with longer attribution windows for growth.🤖 AI and Creative Over Targeting: Paying 2-3x CPMs for precise targeting isn't worth it—creative and smart placement beat perfect identity resolution.📱 Shoppable TV Reality: Interactive ads and QR codes show promise but remain marginal in business impact; AI-generated creative variations offer more upside. Resources & Next Steps🔗 Learn more about Chime📊 Explore Tatari's performance TV platform🎧 Subscribe to Next in Media on Apple Podcasts YouTube Chapter Timestamps00:00 Opening - Performance TV and Chime's evolution00:55 Introducing Nick Fairbairn (VP Growth Marketing at Chime)01:00 Introducing Andy Schonfeld (CRO at Tatari)01:10 Chime's historic media mix - born on social and search02:00 The classic DTC journey - 80% in Facebook and Google02:20 Bringing a portfolio approach to acquisition02:40 Meeting Tatari and starting the TV journey (2019)03:00 Initial barriers - cost, creative, and optimization concerns03:40 Running TV like Meta from day one04:10 Linear focus in the early days (2016-2019)04:40 Small doses of TV with incrementality and attribution05:00 How COVID accelerated streaming adoption05:40 Major brands exiting created inventory opportunities06:00 Fire sale opportunities on premium inventory06:30 Nick's resistance to streaming at first07:00 The linear purist becomes a 50/50 believer07:40 Defining performance in TV advertising08:20 Full funnel measurement - awareness to enrollments09:00 Getting efficient on walled gardens to fund brand TV09:40 The DR valley of death explained10:10 How performance TV measurement has evolved11:00 Starting lower funnel, then expanding upward11:40 The $10-15M threshold where DR hits limits12:10 Going premium - live sports and big moments12:40 The commitment required to unlock TV's power13:10 TV driving IPOs and acquisitions13:40 Helping startups scale through TV14:00 The state of CTV today - better or more complex?14:40 Linear vs streaming buying challenges15:10 Cost prohibitive targeting on streaming15:50 Creative differences between linear and streaming16:20 What's missing - the dashboard fantasy17:00 Why linear still matters - 50% of viewership17:40 Yankees playoff game example - 75% discount18:30 You can't buy big moments programmatically19:10 Relationships still matter in TV buying19:50 Programmatic CTV limitations20:30 Media mix modeling and holistic measurement21:30 Identity and targeting in TV - does it matter?22:10 Creative as the new targeting22:50 Why paying 2-3x CPM for precision isn't worth it23:30 You can't measure it all - need multiple approaches24:00 Shoppable TV and interactive ads - bullish or not?24:40 QR codes and send-to-phone - still marginal25:10 Pause ads opening new real estate25:40 Amazon remote ads and early testing26:00 Dynamic AI creative - 100 variations vs two26:30 Local market creative optimization27:00 Something's brewing with device and TV convergence27:30 Wrap-up and thanks

I had the incredible opportunity to bring together some of the brightest minds in the creator economy for an evening of candid conversation about where this industry is headed. From ad tech innovations to creator authenticity, we covered the full spectrum of what it takes to turn creator content into scalable, revenue-generating partnerships. Conor McKenna from Luma and Zoe Soon from the IAB kicked things off with a macro view of the space, discussing how fragmented media is creating massive opportunities for technology to step in. We explored why brands are shifting budgets at unprecedented rates, with Unilever committing 50% of marketing spend to creator-related initiatives.The evening featured deep dives into brand integration strategies with Ali Parish from Blue Hour Studios and Jeremy Stewart from VuePlanner, followed by an eye-opening discussion with Arthur Leopolod from Agentio about how AI and automation are revolutionizing creator advertising. Perhaps most compelling was hearing directly from Sydney Jo, the creator behind the viral Group Chat series, and her manager Haley Friedman from Made By All about the reality of building a creator business. From navigating brand negotiations to maintaining creative authenticity, this conversation revealed both the opportunities and challenges facing the next generation of digital storytellers._______________________________________________Key Highlights🚀 The Walled Garden Shift: Meta and Google are evolving from social platforms to entertainment platforms, opening up competitive dynamics that allow ad tech to capture margin in the previously closed creator ecosystem.📈 Explosive Growth Trajectory: The creator economy is projected to reach $37 billion this year, growing 400% faster than average digital media, with Agentio raising $40 million to help brands scale from $50K to over $1 million in creator spend without additional bandwidth.🎯 The Authenticity Challenge: Brands are treating creators like Hollywood storytellers but expecting them to perform like programmatic ad units, creating a disconnect that requires better infrastructure, measurement, and understanding of the creator-first approach.🤖 AI as the Creative Multiplier: While AI enables scalability and reduces production costs to zero, the real winners will be creators with established trust and parasocial relationships, as audiences increasingly seek authentic voices in a sea of AI-generated content.💡 Partnership Over Performance: Long-term brand relationships like Sydney's multi-season deal with Hilton outperform transactional campaigns, with brands that engage in comments and understand social media culture seeing significantly better integration and results.📊 The Measurement Gap: Over 50% of US buyers consider creators a must-buy (second only to search and social), yet the industry lacks standardized metrics beyond engagement and reach, requiring brands to rely heavily on first-party data and brand-specific goals.🎬 Platform Dynamics: YouTube and Meta provide strong creator support with dedicated reps, while TikTok remains uniquely difficult to work with despite its massive scale, and creators intentionally maintain cross-platform presence to avoid giving control to any single platform.⚡ From Viral to Viable: Sydney's journey from 250K to 1.7 million followers in one week (and a Today Show appearance) reveals both the opportunity and challenge of monetizing virality, highlighting the critical importance of having the right management team to navigate brand negotiations and maintain creative control._______________________________________________Resources & Next Steps🌐 Learn more about VuePlanner🌐 Learn more about Agentio🎧 Subscribe to Next in Media on Apple Podcasts_______________________________________________YouTube Chapter Timestamps00:00 Opening remarks and industry momentum01:10 Introducing Connor McKenney and Zoe Soon03:00 The ad tech opportunity in creator economy05:40 Walled gardens becoming distribution platforms07:00 Why brands are shifting to creators08:30 The infrastructure and measurement challenge12:00 AI and algorithm control concerns13:00 Standardization vs. authenticity debate17:10 Ali Perish and Jeremy Stewart on brand integration18:40 Evolution of Blue Hour Studios20:40 View Planner's role in creator measurement24:00 YouTube Creator Partnerships Hub26:00 The lifetime value of creators28:00 Arthur Leopold introduces Agentio30:00 The $10 billion to $800 billion opportunity32:00 How Agentio automates creator advertising35:30 Bidding model and AI strategy creation37:40 Creators as micro creative agencies40:00 The Cambrian explosion of AI creativity42:40 Sydney and Hailey from Made By All44:00 Sydney's viral Group Chat origin story46:30 Navigating early brand deals49:00 The importance of saying no51:40 Long-term brand relationships54:00 When brands don't understand social media56:00 Working with platform partners58:30 Advice for brands and creators01:00:00 Closing thoughts and thank you

I sat down with Tusar Barik, the SVP of Marketing at the New York Times, who's just past his first year in this newly created role. We explored how the Times has transformed from a traditional newspaper into a multifaceted media company spanning news, games, podcasts, cooking, sports, and more. Tusar leads a comprehensive team managing everything from measurement and data insights to product marketing, editorial advertising opportunities, and traditional communications. What struck me most was learning that the Times now reaches over 150 million registered users with 50 to 100 million weekly engagers, seeing the highest growth among Gen Z adults and audiences in the Midwest and South. The digital advertising business delivered over 20% year-over-year growth, proving that quality journalism and a direct relationship with readers creates a powerhouse advertising platform.We dove deep into how the Times is meeting consumers where they are through video-forward strategies, producing over 75 hours of professional video monthly and transforming podcasts into multimodal shows available as both audio and video. Tusar shared insights on their Brand Match generative AI product that delivers 30% improvements in both click-through rates and brand lift by intelligently matching advertiser briefs with the right content. We explored how games like Wordle have been part of the Times' DNA since the 1940s crossword, how The Daily creates deeply personal connections with millions, and why the Times sees itself as a solar system with news at the center. The conversation revealed a company that's successfully balanced subscription-first strategy with a thriving advertising business by staying true to its mission while innovating how it reaches and serves audiences._______________________________________________Key Highlights📈 Unprecedented Scale & Growth: The Times now has over 12 million subscribers, 150 million registered users, and 50-100 million weekly engagers, with the highest growth coming from Gen Z adults and the Midwest/South, driving 20% digital advertising growth year-over-year.🤖 AI-Powered Brand Match: Tusar revealed their generative AI product that ingests advertiser RFPs and dynamically matches campaigns with the right content as it's produced, delivering 30%+ improvements in both click-through rates and brand lift.🎥 Video-First Evolution: The Times produces over 75 hours of professional video content monthly and has transformed audio podcasts into multimodal shows, recently launching a Watch tab in the app that creates new premium advertising inventory.🎮 Games as Core DNA: Gaming has been part of the Times since the 1940s crossword during World War II. Today, over 2,000 people per minute share their Wordle scores, and games advertising drives 21% awareness lift and 30%+ brand consideration growth when combined with news.🎙️ The Daily's Emotional Connection: Tusar shared a touching story about how Michael Barbaro's voice became a source of comfort for a reader who listened every morning while visiting her ailing father in the hospital for months, illustrating the deep personal relationships the Times builds.📊 Measurement Playbook Approach: The Times developed a comprehensive measurement strategy offering everything from MMM models for large advertisers to trending metrics for smaller campaigns, with solutions packages that span audio, video, and display inventory.🌐 Portfolio Beyond News: The Times has evolved into a solar system with news at the center, expanding into The Athletic (largest sports newsroom globally), Cooking, Games, Wirecutter, and more, each creating unique advertising entry points and audience segments.💼 Programmatic Done Right: The Times views programmatic as workflow pipes to reduce friction, not as a race to the bottom on CPMs. They've invested significantly in the past 18 months while maintaining quality standards and brand safety for advertisers._______________________________________________Resources & Next Steps🔗 Follow Tusar Barrick on LinkedIn🎧 Subscribe to Next in Media on Apple Podcasts_______________________________________________YouTube Chapter Timestamps00:00 Elemental TV ad00:48 Introduction and guest overview01:50 Welcome to Next in Media02:03 Tor's role and first year at the Times04:19 The Times' evolution beyond news05:07 Core mission and solar system approach06:25 Audience scale: 150M registered users07:39 20% digital ad growth and earnings08:58 AI and Brand Match product10:46 Brand Match performance results11:31 Podcasting and The Daily's impact13:06 Michael Barbaro's emotional connection story14:02 Audio and video evolution15:31 Video production stats and strategy16:14 Navigating agency relationships17:44 Solutions-based approach to advertising18:01 Measurement playbook and strategies19:47 Outcome-based measurement approach20:59 Sabio ad21:05 Talent and newsletter strategy23:48 Gaming portfolio and DNA since 1940s26:03 The Athletic and portfolio expansion27:04 Games advertising opportunities28:28 Programmatic strategy and philosophy30:29 Video strategy and Watch tab launch33:49 Video advertising opportunities34:12 Closing thoughts and wrap-up34:24 Outro and thanks

Summary:This week on Next in Media, Mike Shields talks with Erick Opeka, President & Chief Strategy Officer at Cineverse and board member at the startup Micro Co. Opeka breaks down how short-form “micro-dramas”—already attracting hundreds of millions of daily viewers in China—are taking shape in the U.S. and why they could become a $20 billion category.He explains how Cineverse’s 22 streaming services, proprietary Matchpoint technology, and deep ad-tech stack position it to lead this wave. From Quibi’s missteps to AI-driven efficiencies, Opeka shares how the next generation of vertical video could transform storytelling, advertising, and the very idea of television.⭐ Key Highlights🎥 Cineverse 101: Operates a full-service film & TV studio plus 22 streaming platforms with under 200 employees—powered by its Matchpoint operating system.💡 Tech meets storytelling: Built its own ad-tech stack (C360) and data tools to monetize efficiently while controlling creative output.📱 Rise of micro-dramas: Already a $1 billion U.S. market and mainstream in China, drawing 600 million daily viewers.🧠 Why it works: Each 3-minute story triggers anticipation loops in the brain—more rewarding than endless scrolling.🌍 Cultural crossover: Format expected to reach 13–15% of all video consumption at maturity—larger than the entire U.S. theatrical market.🧩 Creative power team: Lloyd Braun, Susan Rovner, and Jana Winograde join Opeka to build a U.S.-based micro-drama studio.📺 Beyond romance: Expanding from steamy love stories to game shows, thrillers, and reality formats.💰 Business model: Starts with premium and pay-per-view, evolves toward ad-supported models—echoing the broader streaming trend.🤝 Brand opportunity: Advertisers aren’t yet in but white-space potential mirrors early anime and TikTok stages.🔮 Looking ahead: Launch slated for Spring 2026, combining platform tech + top-tier creatives to redefine mobile storytelling. 🔗 Resources & Next StepsFollow Erick Opeka on LinkedIn 🔗 Learn more about Cineverse → cineverse.com⭐ Rate & Review to help more listeners discover the show🎧Subscribe to Next in Media on Apple Podcasts ⏱️ YouTube Chapters00:00 – Intro and Erick Opeka’s role at Cineverse01:00 – How Cineverse runs 22 streaming services with Matchpoint04:00 – Ad-tech integration and C360 audience platform05:00 – The micro-drama trend and China’s 600 million viewers07:30 – Why micro-dramas hook audiences psychologically09:30 – U.S. market potential and viewer behavior11:00 – Genres evolving beyond romance13:00 – Demographics and comparison to K-drama boom14:30 – Business models: subscription vs ad-supported17:00 – Early lessons from China and U.S. adoption curve18:00 – Formation of Micro Co and the creative team21:00 – Building a U.S. platform with better UX and production quality26:00 – Quibi comparisons and why this time is different29:00 – Timeline for launch and platform strategy32:00 – Brand building and sustainable growth vs CAC race34:00 – CTV integration and cross-screen potential35:40 – Advertising ecosystem and brand interest37:40 – TERRIFIER franchise and Cineverse’s studio approach40:00 – Final thoughts on innovation and industry future

Why Brands Should Stop Avoiding News with Jack MarshallBrands have long shied away from advertising in news, fearing controversy or association with “negative” stories; but that hesitation is costing them results. This week, Mike Shields talks with Jack Marshall, Head of News at DoubleVerify, about why avoiding news is a missed opportunity and how advertisers can take a smarter, more nuanced approach to brand safety and suitability.Jack shares insights from DV’s research, which shows that news content drives 16% more engagement than non-news media, and explains how AI-driven tools are helping advertisers target responsibly while supporting trusted journalism. The conversation covers the shifting perceptions of news advertising, AI’s role in brand safety, and why authentic reporting may soon stand out as the antidote to AI-generated “slop.” Highlights:📰 The News Opportunity – DV data shows that news content generates 16% more engagement than non-news, yet many advertisers still block it.🔒 Brand Safety vs. Suitability – Safety covers truly unsafe content (malware, spam, copyright infringement); suitability is where nuanced strategy is needed.🧠 Educating the Industry – Jack’s role includes helping advertisers, agencies, and publishers understand how to unlock news environments safely.🛠️ Smarter Tools, Less Risk – DV’s AI-driven keyword optimization helps reduce false blocks and allows brands to use a scalpel instead of a sledgehammer.⚙️ Product Innovation – DV’s News Accelerator initiative and contextual categories like News+ and News+ Light make it easier to advertise in quality news at scale.📉 Myth-busting Fear – Consumers can separate ads from content; most don’t associate a brand with a nearby tough headline.🤖 AI & Trust – As AI-generated misinformation spreads, real journalism becomes more valuable — “the real connections stand out among the weirdness.”💬 Shift in Attitude – Advertisers are realizing they’ve been too conservative and are reopening budgets for trusted news environments.🪶 Publishers Adapting – From the New York Times’ strong ad growth to the rise of news creators, publishers are learning to leverage trust, voice, and engagement.🌍 Future Outlook – Expect closer ties between news brands and influencers, merging authenticity with scale in ad models. Resources and links:🔗 Follow Jack Marshall on LinkedIn → https://www.linkedin.com/in/jackmarshall/🌐 Learn more about DoubleVerify’s News Accelerator → doubleverify.comExplore Sabio’s platform: sabioctv.com ⭐ Rate & Review to help more listeners discover the show🎧Subscribe to Next in Media on Apple Podcasts Chapters:00:00 Research shows advertisers miss out by avoiding news00:40 Introducing Jack Marshall, Head of News at DoubleVerify02:00 Why DV created a Head of News role03:20 Educating advertisers and publishers on news investment04:50 The CMO vs. junior buyer disconnect06:00 Brand safety vs. brand suitability explained07:30 When it’s reasonable to exclude content — and when it’s not08:20 Modern tools vs. blunt keyword blocking09:20 Overgeneralizations and nuanced strategies10:00 The myth of “negative adjacency”11:10 How consumers actually perceive ads near news12:10 DV research: news drives 16% higher engagement13:30 Why advertisers should rethink “news avoidance”15:40 The DV News Accelerator and new AI keyword tools17:10 Cutting bloated keyword lists with automation18:30 Helping brands use a scalpel instead of a sledgehammer19:30 Making nuance easy for media buyers20:20 Is the pendulum swinging back toward openness?21:30 AI slop and why real news stands out23:00 Publishers finding optimism amid change24:20 Diversifying revenue and growing brand trust25:20 The rise of news creators and influencer-style partnerships26:00 Closing thoughts — supporting real journalism and connection

In this special episode recorded live at Amazon UnBox in Nashville, I sit down with Charlotte Maines, Head of Device Advertising for Fire TV at Amazon. We dive into the massive reach of Fire TV—over 300 million devices sold globally—and what that means for brands aiming to connect with high-value, logged-in Amazon customers.Charlotte shares how Amazon is evolving the ad experience from simple tune-in campaigns to interactive, full-funnel marketing opportunities. We unpack the growing role of Alexa Plus, Amazon’s new LLM-powered assistant, and how it’s revolutionizing personalized, voice-driven engagement across devices. From shoppable connected TV to dynamic creative powered by GenAI, this episode is packed with insights for any brand looking to harness the next wave of CTV innovation.Timeline Summary:[0:38] - Why Fire TV’s 300M device footprint is a game-changer for advertisers[2:40] - The “six-minute window”: How brands can show up during viewer decision time[4:22] - Evolution of Fire TV advertising—from HBO tune-ins to full-funnel brand engagement[6:12] - Inside Alexa Plus: How LLMs are powering Amazon’s new conversational AI[8:10] - Shopping with your voice: Fire TV and Alexa’s seamless commerce experiences[10:00] - The future rotator: Amazon’s prime CTV ad real estate explained[12:45] - Full-funnel advertising: How Amazon connects the dots across devices and media[15:15] - GenAI in action: How brands are creating audio ads in seconds using Amazon tools[18:12] - What brands—big and small—are learning from Amazon’s self-service creative tools[20:33] - Why devices are key to Amazon’s dominance in full-funnel marketingLinks & Resources:Learn more about Alexa Plus: Amazon AlexaExplore Sabio’s platform: sabioctv.com🎧Subscribe to Next in Media on Apple PodcastsClosing Remarks:If you found this episode insightful, I’d love it if you’d take a moment to rate, follow, and share the show. And don’t forget to leave a review—your support helps more people discover Next in Media. See you next time!

This week on Next in Media, I sat down with Nielsen CEO Karthik Rao to get an inside look at the company’s transformation in a fast-evolving media landscape. From the explosive rise of YouTube on connected TVs to tackling fragmentation across platforms, Karthik breaks down how Nielsen is reinventing itself with big data, AI, and a mission to future-proof measurement.We talked about the company’s response to public challenges, its roadmap for creator measurement, and why the shift to big data plus panel is more than just a tech upgrade—it’s a foundational change in how the industry understands audiences. Whether you're curious about the "currency wars," the power of creators, or the role AI could play in stitching together digital and linear, this episode delivers some fascinating insight straight from the top.Timestamps:[0:00] - Karthik Rao on AI’s role in unifying disparate parts of the media world[1:07] - From CEO of Nielsen Global Media to CEO of Nielsen: Karthik’s journey[2:36] - Why Nielsen’s transformation was necessary to keep up with fragmentation and streaming[3:39] - The company’s shift from panel-only to big data plus panel—what that means and why it matters[5:45] - Balancing innovation, trust, and marketplace readiness[8:28] - What really happened with the NFL and how Nielsen navigated public scrutiny[13:16] - Media negotiations in the press and why everyone keeps coming back to Nielsen[15:01] - The underestimated breadth of Nielsen’s business beyond just ratings[17:04] - AI’s game-changing potential in media buying and data integration[20:01] - YouTube’s dominance on CTVs and why creator content is more serious than many assume[22:57] - How Nielsen plans to help creators scale across media ecosystems[25:56] - The current state of "currency wars" and why standardizing to human truths matters[27:21] - Nielsen’s plan to measure podcasting’s evolving video/audio landscapeLinks & ResourcesLearn more about Nielsen’s work at nielsen.comExplore Sabio’s platform: sabioctv.com🎧Subscribe to Next in Media on Apple PodcastsEnjoyed the episode?Please consider rating, reviewing, and sharing Next in Media. And don’t forget to hit that follow button so you never miss what’s next in the world of media.

Robert Wheeler — longtime communications leader at WarnerMedia, AT&T/Xandr, and GroupM — shares why he left the corporate world to build At the Moment Media (ATM), a people-first, video-led publication spotlighting personalities across advertising, technology, and media.He walks through how the brand came to life — from the black-and-white design and animated “M” mascot to its 5–6 minute storytelling format and short-form social clips. Robert also opens up about startup lessons, the state of modern comms, and how ATM plans to cover cultural business moments like the Latin GRAMMYs and BravoCon. Key Highlights🚀 Why he jumped – Robert left senior comms roles at WarnerMedia, AT&T/Xandr, and GroupM to launch At the Moment Media (ATM), aiming to humanize B2B storytelling.🎥 Format that works – Core videos run 5–6 minutes each, repurposed into 15–30-second social cuts designed for engagement and discoverability.🎨 Brand design – A black-and-white aesthetic lets guests provide the color; the animated “M” mascot adds warmth and identity to the platform.🗣️ Rethinking B2B – Robert urges the industry to drop jargon and speak like humans, applying the same clarity and creativity used in consumer ads.📣 The PR truth – “Your comms team can’t fix a bad story.” Great coverage comes from authentic ideas and honest narratives, not spin.🌎 Culture meets commerce – ATM spotlights the business side of cultural events like the Latin GRAMMYs and BravoCon — moments that blend fandom, influence, and brand dollars.⚠️ Crisis lessons – From 2020’s triple-whammy week (CEO exit, major deal, COVID shutdown) to WarnerMedia’s Project Popcorn, Robert shares how to stay steady under fire.📈 Startup execution – Early success driven by global editors, social-first distribution, and sponsor partnerships proving the model works. Resources & Next Steps🔗 Follow Robert Wheeler on LinkedIn🌐 Explore ATM Media🎧Subscribe to Next in Media on Apple Podcasts YouTube Chapter Timestamps00:00 Why leave big media to start ATM01:02 Episode setup and who Robert is01:32 Meet Robert Wheeler and ATM’s mission02:26 From WPP/Warner to taking the plunge05:30 Press pressure and changing journalism07:06 What is ATM and what it’s becoming10:14 Naming ATM and the brand spark11:18 Black-and-white look and the “M” mascot13:31 People-first POV vs old trade vibes15:27 Comfort unlocks better on-camera stories16:26 How to launch a media brand in 202517:33 Format: 5–6 minute features plus social cuts18:56 B2B that talks like B2C22:40 Covering culture: Latin GRAMMYs and BravoCon25:05 What comms can and cannot fix27:14 Managing teams and why he still loves comms28:05 Crisis week 2020: CEO exit, mega deal, COVID30:04 Project Popcorn and more war stories31:35 Wrap-up and calls to action