Park Leaders Show

“Disruptive innovation in parks rarely starts big. It’s often the small changes that reshape how people connect with the outdoors.” Episode Highlights 00:42 How a small cooler forever changed camping and visitation. 05:23 – RVs and modern camping units disrupt campgrounds built in the 1930s. 09:13 – Digital platforms can drive unexpected visitor surges. 10:52 –Reshaping reservation systems and campsite use. 14:44 – Why leaders must act, not react when disruptive innovations emerge. 15:50 – QR codes, drones, and geocaching are examples of disruptive tech in action. 21:37 – Monitoring trends to keep parks relevant. 25:34 – Shifting demographics and expectations require adaptation, not resistance. 27:35 – Small steps of change often matter more than sweeping cultural shifts. Disruptive innovations don’t always arive with fanfare. In fact, they tend to be more subtle. In parks its the seemingly small coolers, gadgets, or trends that change everything. This conversation explores how small shifts reshape recreation, why leaders must act rather than react, and how to spot the next disruption before it takes hold. Read the blog for more from this episode.  Resources www.parkleaders.com https://parkleaders.com/about/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theparkleaders/    

“Fear often comes from not knowing. Once you take time to learn, fear can turn into respect.” Notable Moments [00:02:22] Doug shares his curiosity-driven adventures in Mexico and Russia. [00:05:00] The challenge of endless progress on a finite planet. [00:07:18] Why wilderness is essential for grizzlies and for us. [00:09:34] Tracking wildlife movement near highway corridors. [00:18:55] The lasting influence of The Monkey Wrench Gang. [00:28:02] How our treatment of bears reflects how we see ourselves. [00:29:08] A family’s shift from fear of grizzlies to awe and respect. [00:31:10] The need for united action to defend wilderness and parks. Conservationist and author Doug Peacock returns to share stories from a lifetime spent in wilderness. From grizzlies in Yellowstone to tigers in Russia, Doug reflects on the threats facing wild places and the fight to protect them. He offers hard truths, hopeful lessons, and a reminder that humility is at the heart of conservation. Read the blog for more from this episode.  More from Doug Peacock Books by Doug Peacock Order the book Was It Worth It? A Wilderness Warrior’s Long Trail Home Order the book Grizzly Years Order the book The Monkey Wrench Gang by Edward Abbey, 25th anniversary edition with introduction by Doug Peacock Resources www.parkleaders.com https://parkleaders.com/about/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theparkleaders/

"Sometimes steady leadership, or keeping the park on course, is the most important thing we can offer." Notable Moments [00:01:00] Jon’s work with the Parks Institute at UC Berkeley [00:02:20] International consulting and training park managers abroad [00:04:15] Encouragement for park leaders during uncertain times [00:08:30] Lessons from history and why tough times lead to renewal [00:13:28] The balance between risk-taking and steady leadership [00:17:40] Revisiting the idea of a standalone National Park Service [00:21:54] Jon’s vision for the future of national parks [00:28:53] Reforming concessions and improving visitor experience [00:30:39] Lessons from international park systems [00:33:27] The role of parks in healing and uniting a divided nation Former National Park Service Director Jon Jarvis joins Jody Maberry to share insights on the challenges and future of national parks. They discuss lessons from history, the importance of steady leadership, and how partnerships, Indigenous relationships, and global perspectives shape the path ahead. Jon offers encouragement to current park leaders navigating uncertain times while painting a vision of resilience and renewal for the future. Read the blog for more from this episode.  Resources www.parkleaders.com https://parkleaders.com/about/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theparkleaders/  

"Every contact we have is an opportunity to build or destroy a relationship." Notable Moments [00:02:00] – Why law enforcement consistently ranks among the most debated topics in parks [00:06:20] – Chip’s background, love for the outdoors, and how nature shaped his perspective [00:08:16] – The assumption that all rangers are law enforcement officers [00:11:00] – How uniforms and appearance influence public perception of park rangers [00:18:55] – The importance of branding, presence, and professionalism [00:22:35] – Lessons from SWAT about shifting how officers show up in communities [00:27:29] – The risks rangers face when authority is assumed but not backed by training or tools [00:33:11] – Why connection and trust must remain the primary role of law enforcement in any setting [00:37:54] – The reminder that passion and authenticity cannot be faked in public service [00:43:56] – Chip’s insight: there are no perfect solutions, only trade-offs [00:45:35] – Leadership as the key to finding common ground and balancing priorities Law enforcement in parks sparks some of the strongest debates in conservation leadership. In this episode, Jody Maberry and Phil Gaines welcome retired Kansas City Police Major Chip Huth to unpack the complexities of blending ranger identity with law enforcement responsibility. Chip shares how presence, professionalism, and human connection outweigh authority, and why leadership must embrace trade-offs rather than chase perfect solutions. Read the blog for more from this episode. Resources www.parkleaders.com https://parkleaders.com/about/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theparkleaders/  

"You take care of the people, and they will take care of the park." Notable Moments [00:01:26] Introduction to the four types of park managers [00:02:04] Deep dive into People First management [00:14:24] Park First leadership and its focus on stewardship [00:26:56] Process Driven management: pros, cons, and structure [00:36:14] Personality Driven management and its unpredictable nature [00:45:14] Phil’s insight: success is found in a hybrid model In this episode, Jody Maberry and Phil Gaines explore the four primary types of park managers: People First, Park First, Process Driven, and Personality Driven. They reflect on the advantages and cautions of each style while sharing personal stories and leadership lessons. They emphasize the importance of authenticity and the value of blending leadership approaches to best serve parks, staff, and visitors. Read the blog for more from this episode. Resources www.parkleaders.com https://parkleaders.com/about/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theparkleaders/

 "Every park has trees and trails. What makes people come back is you." Notable Moments [00:03:05] – Starting the keynote, the outhouse story that sparked an award [00:07:24] – Transition from financial analyst to ranger life [00:14:07] – Pandemic pressure and park visitation boom [00:19:02] – Shifting from surviving to thriving post-2020 [00:26:49] – Importance of all roles: field and office [00:30:01] – Why park staff are the defining feature of any park [00:33:20] – Difference between “learned” and “earned” park stories [00:38:27] – Parks’ impact on quality of life, not just economy [00:42:41] – Michigan’s leadership in innovation and conservation [00:47:44] – The importance of gatherings like in-service Jody Maberry delivers his full keynote from the Michigan DNR in-service gathering, reflecting on the theme “Back to the Future of Parks.” He shares memorable stories and lessons from his time as a park ranger, during the pandemic, and how park professionals can shape the future of outdoor spaces. With humor, humility, and heartfelt appreciation, this talk highlights the power of people, the importance of public lands, and the irreplaceable value of every role in the park system. Read the blog for more from this episode.  Resources www.parkleaders.com https://parkleaders.com/about/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theparkleaders/  

"Too often today everything is tech and screens… but picking up a book, putting on a pair of glasses, and seeing something really cool—it’s inspiring and fun." Notable Moments: 00:03 – Dave’s early love for camping and the outdoors 04:47 – How 3D photography became part of his storytelling 08:44 – Behind the scenes of the Theodore Roosevelt 3D photo 11:22 – Overview of parks included in the book 13:43 – Hidden gem tip for Acadia National Park 17:20 – How kids reacted to the 3D book 21:04 – Leadership advice: “Say yes, then figure it out” 24:55 – Dave’s website and Skull Rock Podcast Jody Maberry welcomes Disney animator turned author Dave Bossert to discuss his immersive book 3D National Parks Like You’ve Never Seen Them Before. Dave shares how the project was inspired by View-Masters, the magic of 3D photography, and the importance of sparking curiosity about parks, especially for kids who may not have visited one. The episode also touches on leadership lessons from the animation world and how saying “yes” opens new doors. Read the blog for more from this episode on the website.  Connect with Dave Bossert Order the book 3D National Parks Like You’ve Never Seen Them Before For Direct orders contact Inquiry@theoldmillpress.com Dave’s Website: https://www.davidbossert.com Listen to the Skull Rock Podcast Resources www.parkleaders.com https://parkleaders.com/about/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theparkleaders/

“National parks are sacred not because of what we build, but because of what we protect.” Notable Moments [00:00:20.320] Introduction of Sacred Landscapes [00:01:23.010] Sam’s unexpected inspiration to write the book [00:08:14.120] The emotional transformation of spending years on the road [00:18:03.540] National parks vs. theme parks — how they serve the public differently [00:31:45.600] Designing places that spark reverence [00:49:45.430] The legacy Sam hopes Sacred Landscapes will leave In this episode, author and National Park volunteer Sam Gennawey shares stories from his six-year, 175,000-mile van life journey through U.S. national parks. Known for his writing on theme parks and urban planning, Sam offers a fresh perspective on the intentional design and emotional power of natural spaces. He discusses the origins of his new book Sacred Landscapes, the personal transformation of long-term travel, and the connection between preserving spaces and creating meaningful human experiences. Read the blog for more from this episode. Connect with Sam Gennawey Get the book Sacred Landscapes Discover Books by Sam Gennawey Resources www.parkleaders.com https://parkleaders.com/about/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theparkleaders/  

“You don’t have to come from parks to lead in parks. But you do have to embrace the culture, listen, and lead with purpose.” Notable Moments [00:02:00] Starting out as a seasonal worker builds a foundation [00:03:40] Promoting park managers without prior experience [00:05:18] Success stories of hiring from outside the park system [00:08:48] Benefits of diverse backgrounds in leadership [00:14:50] Importance of honoring legacy while bringing fresh ideas [00:21:34] Staying close to your point of service [00:23:00] Advice from Lee Cockerell: take notes and observe early Can someone manage a park without ever having worked in one? Jody Maberry and Phil Gaines say “yes” and explain why in this listener-inspired episode. They received an email from Freddie, a new park manager in New York with no prior park experience. Together they unpack how fresh perspectives, paired with respect for legacy, can benefit any park system. Phil shares stories of success when hiring “off the street” and reinforces the importance of staying close to your point of service. Jody offers insight from his own unconventional journey into parks and highlights why diversity of thought can be just as valuable as field experience. Whether you’re brand new or decades deep, this episode is a reminder to lead with intention, learn from the people you serve, and never lose sight of your North Star. Read the blog for more from this episode. Resources www.parkleaders.com https://parkleaders.com/about/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theparkleaders/  

"Storytelling is the bridge between awe and understanding, whether you're in a theme park or a national park." Notable Moments 01:05 – Bob’s national park road trip that shaped his worldview 05:24 – “Recreation” vs. “Re-creation”: the true power of parks 06:10 – Walt Disney’s advice: walk the park, observe the guests 08:41 – How Disney draws inspiration from national parks 12:19 – Gaps in concessionaire storytelling at national park lodges 14:51 – Bob’s advice for elevating the lodge experience 16:15 – Lessons from Kennedy Space Center concessions 20:39 – Making food and retail part of the park’s story 28:16 – Advice for up-and-coming park leaders 32:14 – Why rangers are just as iconic as Disney cast members  In this inspiring conversation, Bob Weis, former president of Walt Disney Imagineering, joins to explore the intersection of themed and natural parks. In his new book, Dream Chasing, Bob discusses how his childhood road trip to national parks shaped his creative path and what natural park leaders can learn from theme park storytelling. From immersive lodge experiences to the role of frontline staff, this episode offers practical and visionary ideas for elevating the park guest experience. Read the blog for more from this episode. Connect with Bob Weis www.bobweis.com Order the book – Dream Chasing Resources www.parkleaders.com https://parkleaders.com/about/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theparkleaders/  

"When you truly love a place, you do whatever it takes to protect it, even if it takes a decade." Notable Moments 00:01:04 Meeting Rodrigo and Jose 00:02:03 Rodrigo shares how a simple question sparked conservation 00:07:15 Jose explains fighting the first hydroelectric project 00:20:54 What happens after the land is protected 00:32:04 The significance of the ancient Alerce tree Jody Maberry recounts his unforgettable trip to Chile’s Cochamó Valley, especially meeting Rodrigo Condeza and Jose Claro. Together, they have spent over a decade fighting to stop hydroelectric dams and irresponsible development in Pucheguin. Their efforts highlight the power of dedication and community-led conservation. Listen to hear about their battles, the unique Alerce trees, historic trails, and the vision for balancing wilderness protection with community livelihood and responsible tourism. Read the blog for more from this episode.  Episode Resources Puelo Patagonia: puelopatagonia.cl Conserva Pucheguin Project: conservapucheguin.org Connect with Jody www.parkleaders.com https://parkleaders.com/about/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theparkleaders/  

"The only way you're going to save the world is with a damn good story." Notable Moments 02:13 – Jeff’s origin story: how a zoo letter changed his life 04:47 – Radical collaboration and partnerships across conservation groups 06:31 – Story of Pueblo Patagonia and local leadership in Chile 13:16 – Big change starts with one local champion 17:26 – Why storytelling is essential to conservation success 24:16 – Gabon’s 30x30x30x30 model and protecting rivers, too 26:14 – Partnering with Disney for the Lion Recovery Fund 33:18 – Jody’s zoo and creek story: early sparks of passion 37:52 – Jeff’s advice for new park leaders: seek diverse experiences, tell good stories What if the future of conservation hinged less on policy and more on storytelling? Conservation doesn’t start with land. It starts with people. And it lasts because of the stories we carry forward. In this episode, Jody Maberry talks with Jeff Parrish, Global Managing Director at The Nature Conservancy. Jeff shares how global conservation success starts with local champions, radical collaboration, and the power of storytelling. From protecting ancient forests in Chile to elephants in Gabon, Jeff emphasizes that people are the heart of conservation, not policy. He highlights partnerships with Disney and grassroots leaders, and reminds us that whether you're a donor or a ranger, your story matters.  Read the blog and make sure to take a listen to hear more on how stories connect people to conservation. Episode Resources The Nature Conservancy About Jeff Connect with Park Leaders Show www.parkleaders.com https://parkleaders.com/about/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theparkleaders/    

“A win in conservation is temporary. You’ll fight for it again. A loss is permanent.” Notable Moments [00:01:03] – Why politics and public land are inseparable [00:04:37] – The impact of the Antiquities Act on land policy [00:06:57] – South Carolina’s bipartisan approach to land conservation [00:10:31] – Western vs. Eastern perceptions of public land ownership [00:15:11] – Economic and social value of protected lands [00:21:13] – The difference between temporary wins and permanent losses [00:26:40] – Why every acre counts, from Yellowstone to your local county park Jody Maberry and Phil Gaines explore the often-overlooked political realities of public land management. They examine how geography, history, and growth shape public land debates differently across regions, especially in the East vs. the West. From the Antiquities Act to state and federal tensions, they reflect on why effective leadership requires understanding policy and public sentiment. Phil shares South Carolina’s strategic approach, and both emphasize that conservation is about legacy—not just land. This episode encourages park leaders to engage in meaningful conversations, beyond politics, to protect the places that define our country. Read my blog for more about the politics of public lands.  Resources www.parkleaders.com https://parkleaders.com/about/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theparkleaders/  

“Parks protect the land, but just as importantly, they protect the stories that shaped our nation.” There are a number of ways parks can contribute to the United States’ 250th anniversary. From South Carolina’s rich revolutionary history to the roles western parks can play, this conversation highlights how parks serve as stewards of history, not just nature. Phil joins to share his involvement with state commissions and the American Battlefield Trust, offering ideas for programming, preservation, and storytelling. Read the blog for more from this episode.  Notable Moments [02:30] Phil’s work with commissions and battlefield preservation [04:02] Lexington and Concord: the shot heard around the world [06:29] Parks' role in preserving and retelling history [09:30] Revolutionary stories from South Carolina [11:30] Creating commissions across the U.S. [13:00] The opportunity for storytelling and youth engagement [17:11] Andrew Jackson’s teenage war story [20:48] Importance of land preservation [21:51] How every state can contribute to the celebration Resources www.parkleaders.com https://parkleaders.com/about/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theparkleaders/  

"I'm going to do something that's connected to the national parks or our or a state park near me so that I can use my knowledge and see the real world impact it has. And that way, I never am stuck in class asking, why is this important? Why on earth do I have to learn this?" Notable Moments 03:02 Parks' Enhanced Virtual Learning Programs 05:30 The Value of Learning About Distant Places 12:39 Bridging Classrooms and Public Lands 17:53 Engaging Park Rangers as Educators 24:08 Enhancing Park Visitor Experience 26:14 Park Principles for Classroom Management Connect with James Order the Book The National Park Classroom www.nationalparkclassroom.com Resources www.parkleaders.com https://parkleaders.com/about/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theparkleaders/ Every park holds stories waiting to be told. James Fester, an educator and former interpreter with California State Parks and the National Park Service, returns to discuss the ever-evolving connection between national parks and education. Read the blog for more on the ways that parks have been successfully integrated into classrooms and the powerful outcomes of such collaborations.

"We've designed the bathroom to be agnostic to the environment in which it goes. There are certainly other operational considerations the further out you go, but there's really no fundamental limitation as to where we put a throne." Bathrooms in parks are rarely the focus of innovation, but I was eager to dive into this unexplored territory with guests Jessica Heinzelmann and Fletcher Wilson from Throne Labs. Together, they are revolutionizing bathrooms, transforming them from mundane necessities into seamless, data-driven experiences for park visitors. Read the blog for more from this episode about how they are helping rethink park restrooms. Notable Moments 06:21 Rethinking Bathroom Infrastructure 08:04 User-Driven Feedback Systems to Ensure Cleanliness  11:16 Addressing the Needs of Women and Families 15:57 Creating a Quick, Hassle-Free Bathroom Solutions 20:20 Smart Bathrooms Enhance Experience and Opportunities 22:29 Automated Park Lockdown System Connect with ThroneLabs ThroneLabs.com LinkedIn Jessica Heinzelman  LinkedIn Fletcher Wilson Connect with Jody www.jodymaberry.com About Jody - https://jodymaberry.com/about-jody-maberry/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/sugarjmaberry LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jodymaberry/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/sugarjmaberry/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/jodymaberry  

"You have to be ready because change is constant, and you have to be able to adapt and adjust." As the retired director of South Carolina State Parks and a current professor at Clemson University, Phil Gaines has wisdom on navigating administrative changes in park systems that is invaluable. He joined me to break down the often tumultuous times when new administrations take office. Transitions can be tough. Read the blog to hear how more on our conversation about strategic planning and adapting to new leadership in the park system. Resources www.parkleaders.com https://parkleaders.com/about/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theparkleaders/  

"Nothing gets done without partners. And in fact, it's way more fun when you get to do it with other people." Philanthropy is a powerful tool that often goes unnoticed in the world of park management. I have the privilege of diving deep into this with Sarah Unz, Vice President of Community Partnerships at the National Park Foundation, and Ryan McClure, Executive Director of Gateway Arch Park Foundation and Board Chair of the Friends Alliance. Read the blog for more on creating world-class experiences and preserving our natural treasures for future generations. Notable Moments 00:00 Reimagining the Arch Experience 03:49 Embracing Environmental Partnerships 08:17 "National Park Friends Alliance Collaboration" 12:58 "Philanthropy's Role in National Parks" 14:30 Urban Parks: Unique Role & Philanthropy 19:13 Historic Courthouse Renovation Art Project 23:32 "Parks Fundraising Campaign Launch" 26:09 Proud National Park Campaign Collaboration Resources Gateway Arch Park Project National Park Foundation Friends Alliance www.parkleaders.com https://parkleaders.com/about/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theparkleaders/  

"They've done studies observing children in a park. They issue the more organized places like a like a soccer field or basketball court, but the kids always end up on the edges where the trees or the brush is just messing around." Childhood adventures in nature can shape a lifetime of curiosity and exploration. That’s why I was thrilled to chat with Chris Anderson, creator of "OutSCIder," an initiative bringing educational videos about national parks into classrooms. Through his work, Chris is ensuring the next generation doesn’t just learn about nature but forms lasting bonds with it. Read the blog for more on how OutSCIder is helping kids find a passion for exploration and conservation. Connect with Chris Anderson https://www.outscider.org/ YouTube Channel OutSCIder Instagram OutSCIder Resources www.parkleaders.com https://parkleaders.com/about/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theparkleaders/  

"After 43 years of doing this, some things didn't sound accurate to me. So I started researching this in in order to to put together a program to go out and really explain what the history of these places are and what is fact and what is fiction." When was the last time you thought about the history behind our public lands? It's more intricate than many realize. One person that knows that is a veteran leader in the world of parks, Walt Dabney. Walt joined us fresh from the 47th annual Ranger Rendezvous. This event started back in 1977 and continues to bring park rangers together. His presentation on the history and future of public lands was incredibly compelling. Do yourself a favor and take the time to watch it on YouTube. Walt unpacked the historical context of how America's public lands came to be, from the Louisiana Purchase and Treaty of Paris to the impacts of the Mexican War. He explained how the lens of history is crucial to understanding current debates, particularly the contentious issue of transferring federal lands to state control. One of the major points Walt made was the looming risk if states like Utah successfully demand federal land transfers. Managing these lands is no small feat, with wildfire costs alone hitting $119 million in 2018. If states can't afford to manage these lands, we risk seeing them sold off and lost forever. Walt, who once led Texas State Parks and served decades in the National Park Service, brings the wisdom of his extensive career to the forefront. His ongoing educational outreach highlights the importance of public engagement. His key message is clear: we must understand and appreciate public lands' history to safeguard their future. Resources www.parkleaders.com https://parkleaders.com/about/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theparkleaders/