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Paul Zimnisky Diamond Analytics Podcast
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Paul Zimnisky Diamond Analytics Podcast

Author: Paul Zimnisky

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The Paul Zimnisky Diamond Analytics Podcast provides a look into the global diamond industry with leading analyst Paul Zimnisky. Each episode features a full-length interview with a special guest to discuss the diamond industry and related topics while sharing interesting observations, thoughts and analysis. A wide range of guests from around the world have joined the show from all segments of the diamond supply chain and beyond, including: exploration geologists, jewelry designers, marketing experts, journalists, novelists, economists, consultants, technology experts and artists, from India, Brazil, Russia, South Africa, England, Canada and the U.S.
60 Episodes
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David Kellie, the CEO of the Natural Diamond Council (NDC), returns to the show for a third time. The conversation begins with David discussing the NDC’s recent marketing shoot in Canada’s Northwest Territories with actress Lily James. David then shares his cold-water plunge experience in minus 30-degree temperatures. Paul and David then go on to talk about the NDC’s process for selecting celebrity representatives. The two then discuss De Beers’ seeming return to a more generic focused diamond marketing strategy. Next, Paul shares his views on the pitfalls of price discounting of natural diamonds and why natural diamonds can’t compete with lab-grown diamonds (LGD) on price. Finally, the two discuss how the diamond trade is chasing the more attractive profit margins of LGDs to the detriment of natural diamonds –and what the natural diamond industry can do about it.                                                                                                                     Hosted by: Paul Zimnisky Guest: David Kellie Guest plug: www.naturaldiamonds.com More information on PZDA’s State of the Diamond Market report: www.paulzimnisky.com/products   Show contact: paul@paulzimnisky.com or visit www.paulzimnisky.com.   Please note that the contents of this podcast includes anecdotes, observations and opinions. The information should not be considered investment or financial advice. Consult your investment professional before making any investment decisions. Please read full disclosure at: www.paulzimnisky.com.
Guest: Amelia Bourdeau

Guest: Amelia Bourdeau

2024-03-1949:40

In this episode of the Paul Zimnisky Diamond Analytics Podcast, economic and financial market strategist Amelia Bourdeau joins the show to discuss an array of macro fundamental factors likely to impact the diamond trade. The conversation begins with Paul and Amelia discussing the Federal Reserve's impact on the U.S. economy and what this means for consumers. The discussion then moves to how de-globalization and technology, specifically the advent of AI, will impact the trajectory of inflation. The two then talk about how natural diamonds could provide allure in an increasing digital world. Finally, Paul and Amelia discuss the state of the Chinese economy and whether the U.S. dollar will remain the world’s reserve currency.   Hosted by: Paul Zimnisky Guest: Amelia Bourdeau Guest plug: www.intro.co/AmeliaBourdeau More information on PZDA’s State of the Diamond Market report: www.paulzimnisky.com/products A special thanks to this episode’s sponsor Nivoda. To book a demo of Nivoda’s innovative online diamond marketplace and sales solution please visit: www.nivoda.com/pzpodcast   Show contact: paul@paulzimnisky.com or visit www.paulzimnisky.com.   Please note that the contents of this podcast includes anecdotes, observations and opinions. The information should not be considered investment or financial advice. Consult your investment professional before making any investment decisions. Please read full disclosure at: www.paulzimnisky.com.
In this episode of the Paul Zimnisky Diamond Analytics Podcast, Canadian polished diamond wholesaler Mel Moss returns. Paul and Mel begin by discussing whether the current market downturn is more cyclical or secular in nature. The two then talk about the latest developments in man-made diamonds and Mel shares why he thinks LGDs will end up being sold out of gumball machines. The conversation then switches to the pending G7 (Western) sanctions on Russian diamonds and what it means for the larger industry. Paul and Mel then discuss expectations for the 2023 holiday shopping season, and finally, Mel candidly shares his views on De Beers being the industry’s steward.   Hosted by: Paul Zimnisky Guest: Mel Moss Guest plug: www.regalimportsltd.com More information on PZDA’s State of the Diamond Market report: www.paulzimnisky.com/products   Show contact: paul@paulzimnisky.com or visit www.paulzimnisky.com.   Please note that the contents of this podcast includes anecdotes, observations and opinions. The information should not be considered investment or financial advice. Consult your investment professional before making any investment decisions. Please read full disclosure at: www.paulzimnisky.com.
Guest: Guy Borenstein

Guest: Guy Borenstein

2023-11-1429:58

In this episode of the Paul Zimnisky Diamond Analytics Podcast, world-renowned gemologist Guy Borenstein joins the show. The episode kicks off with Paul and Guy talking about how many undisclosed lab-diamonds are making their way through the natural diamond supply chain. The conversation then transitions to a discussion on future consumer demand for lab-diamonds relative to natural and how retailers will adapt their businesses. The two then discuss the nuances between HPHT and CVD lab-diamond production and the geographic source of most goods. Finally, Paul and Guy discuss the pending G7 sanctions on Russian diamonds and possible solutions for effectively tracing stones through the supply chain.     Hosted by: Paul Zimnisky Guest: Guy Borenstein Guest plug: www.stuller.com More information on PZDA’s State of the Diamond Market report: www.paulzimnisky.com/products   Show contact: paul@paulzimnisky.com or visit www.paulzimnisky.com.   Please note that the contents of this podcast includes anecdotes, observations and opinions. The information should not be considered investment or financial advice. Consult your investment professional before making any investment decisions. Please read full disclosure at: www.paulzimnisky.com.
In this episode of the Paul Zimnisky Diamond Analytics Podcast, Amish Shah of ALTR Created Diamonds and J’evar returns to the show. The conversation begins with Amish explaining how he is marketing and distributing his new lab-diamond jewelry brand. Next, Paul and Amish discuss U.S. jewelers’ relative hesitancy to stock inventory for the upcoming holiday season. Then the two discuss what declining lab-diamond prices, and thus margins, could mean for the downstream segment of the trade longer-term. Paul and Amish then have a more quantitative discussion on the economics of the mid-stream segment of the industry. Finally, Amish explains why Indian jewelry is different from what you typically find in North America.   Hosted by: Paul Zimnisky Guest: Amish Shah Guest plug: www.altr.nyc, www.jevar.co   More information on PZDA’s State of the Diamond Market report: www.paulzimnisky.com/products   Show contact: paul@paulzimnisky.com or visit www.paulzimnisky.com.   Please note that the contents of this podcast includes anecdotes, observations and opinions. The information should not be considered investment or financial advice. Consult your investment professional before making any investment decisions. Please read full disclosure at: www.paulzimnisky.com.
Paul welcomes Rob Bates back to the show to discuss the release of his third book in the Diamond District Mystery Series, "Slay it With a Diamond." The conversation begins with Paul asking Rob if he gets a “serotonin boost” upon the completion of a book. Next, the two delve into the question of whether there will be a specific cataclysmic moment that changes the trajectory of the lab-diamond industry as supply feverishly grows and prices fall. Next, Paul and Rob explain why they think natural diamonds will persevere in the midst of current challenges and Paul shares why he thinks Paris-based Fred Joaillier’s approach to lab-diamonds will be successful. The two then discuss what percentage of lab-diamond consumers want people to think it’s a natural and Rob’s talks about expressing emotion with a Cracker Jack ring. Finally, Paul and Rob analyze De Beers' strategy towards lab-diamonds and the resale of natural diamonds.   Hosted by: Paul Zimnisky Guest: Rob Bates Guest plug: Amazon link to buy Rob’s third book More information on PZDA’s State of the Diamond Market report: www.paulzimnisky.com/products   Show contact: paul@paulzimnisky.com or visit www.paulzimnisky.com.   Please note that the contents of this podcast includes anecdotes, observations and opinions. The information should not be considered investment or financial advice. Consult your investment professional before making any investment decisions. Please read full disclosure at: www.paulzimnisky.com.
Guest: Hans Merket

Guest: Hans Merket

2023-07-2435:53

In this episode of the Paul Zimnisky Diamond Analytics Podcast, Hans Merket joins from Antwerp, Belgium. The conversation begins Paul and Hans discussing the Russian mercenary group Wagner and its link to diamond production, notably in the Central African Republic (CAR). The conversation then moves to the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and the two talk about the work that Hans has done monitoring humans rights related to gold mining in the country. Paul and Hans then discuss Marange diamonds and Zimbabwe’s position as Kimberly Process Chair. Finally, the two talk about the recent agreement between the government of Botswana and De Beers and they analyze if other diamond mining countries can use it as a framework.   Hosted by: Paul Zimnisky Guest: Hans Merket Guest plug: www.ipisresearch.be More information on PZDA’s State of the Diamond Market report: www.paulzimnisky.com/products   Show contact: paul@paulzimnisky.com or visit www.paulzimnisky.com.   Please note that the contents of this podcast includes anecdotes, observations and opinions. The information should not be considered investment or financial advice. Consult your investment professional before making any investment decisions. Please read full disclosure at: www.paulzimnisky.com.
Guest: Molefi Letsiki

Guest: Molefi Letsiki

2023-06-3036:47

In this episode of the Paul Zimnisky Diamond Analytics Podcast, De Beers’ Sightholder Molefi Letsiki joins from Johannesburg. The conversation begins with Molefi briefly sharing his story of being a second generation diamantaire in South Africa. Paul and Molefi then discuss the current state of the rough and polished diamond market and speculate on how the remainder of the year will play out. The two then delve a little bit deeper and discuss price performance of rough diamonds by size category. They then discuss the various impacts of the move towards more supply chain transparency in the industry and Molefi provides anecdotes of client demand for South African-origin goods. Finally, Paul and Molefi share their thoughts on man-made diamonds and the recent news of Lightbox offering engagement rings for the first time.   Hosted by: Paul Zimnisky Guest: Molefi Letsiki Guest plug: www.mldiamonds.com More information on PZDA’s State of the Diamond Market report: www.paulzimnisky.com/products   Show contact: paul@paulzimnisky.com or visit www.paulzimnisky.com.   Please note that the contents of this podcast includes anecdotes, observations and opinions. The information should not be considered investment or financial advice. Consult your investment professional before making any investment decisions. Please read full disclosure at: www.paulzimnisky.com.
Guest: Branko Deljanin

Guest: Branko Deljanin

2023-05-2336:00

In this more technical episode of the Paul Zimnisky Diamond Analytics Podcast, globally respected gemologist Branko Deljanin joins the show to discuss the detection of lab-diamonds and the chemical traceability of natural diamonds. The conversation begins with Branko telling the story of the first time he saw a gem-quality CVD lab-diamond. Paul and Branko then discuss whether man-made diamond producers will ever get good enough that labs will not be able to distinguish them from natural diamonds. Next, the two discuss the technical ability to trace a diamond back to its source based on the chemical makeup. Finally, Branko shares his thoughts on the notion of using a lab-based approach to screen sanctioned Russian diamonds.                                                                                                                     Hosted by: Paul Zimnisky Guest: Branko Deljanin Guest plug: www.brankogems.com More information on PZDA’s State of the Diamond Market report: www.paulzimnisky.com/products   Show contact: paul@paulzimnisky.com or visit www.paulzimnisky.com.   Please note that the contents of this podcast includes anecdotes, observations and opinions. The information should not be considered investment or financial advice. Consult your investment professional before making any investment decisions. Please read full disclosure at: www.paulzimnisky.com.
In this 51st episode of the Paul Zimnisky Diamond Analytics Podcast, Rob Bates, a favorite guest of the show, returns. The episode begins with Paul explaining why he is bullish on the Mexican economy. The conversation then moves to the rapid advancement of artificial intelligence as Paul and Rob share thoughts on what AI means for the diamond and jewelry industry –and on a more existential level. The two then discuss how the technological progression of humanity could be supportive of natural diamond demand. Next, Rob passionately shares his view on greenwashing by some participants in the lab-diamond industry. The episode closes out with Paul and Rob discussing the positioning of Signet Jewelers’ banners, the turn-around story at Pandora and the latest on the sanctioning of Russian diamonds.   Hosted by: Paul Zimnisky Guest: Rob Bates Guest plug: Amazon link to pre-order Rob’s third book More information on PZDA’s State of the Diamond Market report: www.paulzimnisky.com/products   Show contact: paul@paulzimnisky.com or visit www.paulzimnisky.com.   Please note that the contents of this podcast includes anecdotes, observations and opinions. The information should not be considered investment or financial advice. Consult your investment professional before making any investment decisions. Please read full disclosure at: www.paulzimnisky.com.
Guest: Erez Rivlin

Guest: Erez Rivlin

2023-04-2348:59

Israeli-Belgian diamond industry consultant Erez Rivlin joins Paul to candidly discuss an array of topics including sanctions on Russian diamonds, rough diamond prices and the impact that lab-diamonds will have on the natural diamond industry. The episode begins will Erez giving his first-hand account of the evolution of the rough diamond trade over the last three-plus decades including what it was like in Russia before and during the dissolution of the Soviet Union in the 1990’s. Next, Erez tells a story of when he was in a sorting room with 500,000 carats of exceptional Russian stones worth over $3 billion. Paul and Erez then discuss the current Western (and pending further) sanctions on Russian diamonds and what it means for the larger industry and rough diamond prices. Finally, Erez predicts the future of the man-made diamond market and what it means for natural diamonds.                                                                                                                     Hosted by: Paul Zimnisky Guest: Erez Rivlin More information on PZDA’s State of the Diamond Market report: www.paulzimnisky.com/products   Show contact: paul@paulzimnisky.com or visit www.paulzimnisky.com.   Please note that the contents of this podcast includes anecdotes, observations and opinions. The information should not be considered investment or financial advice. Consult your investment professional before making any investment decisions. Please read full disclosure at: www.paulzimnisky.com.
Guest: Michael Zhu

Guest: Michael Zhu

2023-04-0423:33

In this episode of the Paul Zimnisky Diamond Analytics Podcast, Paul welcomes Chinese diamond influencer and consultant Michael Zhu, aka “Diamond Spectator,” to the show. The two begin by discussing the history of diamonds in China and Michael explains why a diamond engagement ring remains a “solid need” for a marriage in China. Paul and Michael then talk about the emergence of lab-grown diamonds in China and what it means for natural diamond demand. They then discuss China’s contribution to global man-made diamond supply and speculate as to whether China will remain the world’s production leader. Next, they talk about the rapid growth of the corporate jewelers in China and whether the momentum will continue –especially as the industry emerges from the pandemic. Lastly, as the Western world presses sanctions on Russian diamonds, the two discuss whether Chinese consumers care about the source of a diamond.                                                                                                                     Hosted by: Paul Zimnisky Guest: Michael Zhu Guest plug: www.diamondspectator.com More information on PZDA’s State of the Diamond Market report: www.paulzimnisky.com/products   Show contact: paul@paulzimnisky.com or visit www.paulzimnisky.com.   Please note that the contents of this podcast includes anecdotes, observations and opinions. The information should not be considered investment or financial advice. Consult your investment professional before making any investment decisions. Please read full disclosure at: www.paulzimnisky.com.
In this episode, Paul welcomes back David Kellie, the CEO of the Natural Diamond Council (NDC). The conversation starts out with a discussion about the secondhand, or recycled, diamond market and how that could portray value retention for natural diamonds. Next, Paul and David talk about the NDC’s recent “mystery shopper” program and how that work has shed light on consumers’ as well as jewelers’ understanding of lab versus natural diamonds. The two then talk about how lab-diamonds are covered by the media and how jewelers in Asia clearly segregate the way that they sell lab and natural diamonds. Finally, the two discuss the impact of having Ana de Armas as an ambassador for the NDC and whether a Super Bowl ad for natural diamonds is in the cards.                                                                                                                     Hosted by: Paul Zimnisky Guest: David Kellie Guest plug: www.naturaldiamonds.com More information on PZDA’s State of the Diamond Market report: www.paulzimnisky.com/products   Show contact: paul@paulzimnisky.com or visit www.paulzimnisky.com.   Please note that the contents of this podcast includes anecdotes, observations and opinions. The information should not be considered investment or financial advice. Consult your investment professional before making any investment decisions. Please read full disclosure at: www.paulzimnisky.com.
Guest: Eric Emms

Guest: Eric Emms

2023-02-0747:03

In this episode of the Paul Zimnisky Diamond Analytics Podcast, well-respected London-based Gemologist Eric Emms joins the show. The conversation begins with Eric explaining why he does not think there will ever be a point in time when the industry cannot distinguish between man-made and natural diamonds. Next, Paul and Eric discuss how the gem-grading industry has evolved over the years. Then, the two theorize why the diamond industry has been so resilient for so long and Eric recounts memories of some of the famous diamonds that he has personally inspected, including the Cullinan Diamond and the Koh-i-Noor. Finally, Eric explains why Demantoid Garnet is his favorite colored gemstone and the two discuss the impact that U.S. sanctions are having on the supply of Russian diamonds.                                                                                                                     Hosted by: Paul Zimnisky Guest: Eric Emms Guest plug: www.ericemms.co.uk More information on PZDA’s State of the Diamond Market report: www.paulzimnisky.com/products   Show contact: paul@paulzimnisky.com or visit www.paulzimnisky.com.   Please note that the contents of this podcast includes anecdotes, observations and opinions. The information should not be considered investment or financial advice. Consult your investment professional before making any investment decisions. Please read full disclosure at: www.paulzimnisky.com.
Guest: Tim Falconer

Guest: Tim Falconer

2023-01-1755:37

Toronto-based author Tim Falconer joins Paul to discuss an array of topics including a recent magazine article he wrote on the future of diamond mining in Canada’s north. The conversation begins with the two discussing the state of the diamond industry in the Northwest Territories, especially as the world-class Diavik and Ekati mines approach of end of their conventional life. Next, the discussion transitions to the origins of the sport of ice hockey as Tim covered in his recently published book Klondikers. Tim then poetically tells the story of the 1905 Stanley Cup in which an underdog from the Yukon travels for three weeks to play the reigning champions in Ottawa. The conversation concludes with Paul and Tim discussing how a mining stock scandal in the 1960’s (the topic of Tim’s current book) made the Toronto Stock Exchange the go-to for resource stock listings.   Hosted by: Paul Zimnisky Guest: Tim Falconer Guest plug: www.timfalconer.com More information on PZDA’s State of the Diamond Market report: www.paulzimnisky.com/products   Show contact: paul@paulzimnisky.com or visit www.paulzimnisky.com.   Please note that the contents of this podcast includes anecdotes, observations and opinions. The information should not be considered investment or financial advice. Consult your investment professional before making any investment decisions. Please read full disclosure at: www.paulzimnisky.com.
Well respected South African geologist and geochemist, Dr. John Bristow, joins the show from his home in Hermanus. The conversation begins with Paul and John reviewing the trend of declining global natural diamond supply and discussing what will keep natural diamonds relevant going into the future. The two then have a discussion on each of the primary diamond producing nations in southern Africa including: Angola, Botswana, the DRC and Namibia. Next, John gives his general view on the current state of South Africa as a mining jurisdiction. The conversation then transitions to Paul and John talking about Anglo American, the large diversified South African miner, and whether or not diamonds (via De Beers) will continue to play a core role for the company in the future. Finally, the episode concludes with Paul and John discussing opportunities for the next generation of diamond geologists.                                                                                                                     Hosted by: Paul Zimnisky Guest: Dr. John Bristow Guest plug: John’s LinkedIn page More information on PZDA’s State of the Diamond Market report: www.paulzimnisky.com/products   Show contact: paul@paulzimnisky.com or visit www.paulzimnisky.com.   Please note that the contents of this podcast includes anecdotes, observations and opinions. The information should not be considered investment or financial advice. Consult your investment professional before making any investment decisions. Please read full disclosure at: www.paulzimnisky.com.
In this episode, Paul is joined by Deborah Aroshas and Talchaim Damri to discuss how their company Capsoul is “presenting the new era of diamond.” The conversation begins with Deborah discussing Capsoul’s collaboration with TAG Heuer to produce the Carrera Plasma watch –a first of its kind timepiece that includes over 10-carats of single-crystal and polycrystalline lab diamond. The group then discusses if novel diamond jewelry is driven more by artistic vision or engineering capability. Next, Talchaim explains the technical difference between single-crystal and polycrystalline diamond and how both materials can be used in jewelry. Paul and Talchaim then talk about the HPHT versus CVD diamond growing methods and what other technologies exist for producing diamond. The conversation closes with a discussion about using man-made diamond in high-tech applications and how the product positioning of lab-diamond jewelry versus traditional natural diamond jewelry is likely to veer further in the future.                                                                                                                     Hosted by: Paul Zimnisky Guest: Deborah Aroshas & Talchaim Damri Guest plug: www.capsouldiamond.com More information on PZDA’s State of the Diamond Market report: www.paulzimnisky.com/products   Show contact: paul@paulzimnisky.com or visit www.paulzimnisky.com.   Please note that the contents of this podcast includes anecdotes, observations and opinions. The information should not be considered investment or financial advice. Consult your investment professional before making any investment decisions. Please read full disclosure at: www.paulzimnisky.com.
In this episode of the Paul Zimnisky Diamond Analytics Podcast, good friend of the show Rob Bates returns for the fourth time. The conversation begins with Paul reviewing Rob’s diamond industry predictions from 15 years ago. Next, the two speculate on what the next 15 years could bring. Then, Paul and Rob discuss the latest impact that U.S. sanctions are having on the flow of Russian diamonds. The conversation then moves to the “explosion” of lab-diamond production capacity in India and what it means for the industry. The two then discuss De Beer’s Lightbox lab-diamond jewelry strategy and how a lower lab-diamond price-point could change the incentive of retailers and front-line sales personal. Lastly, Paul and Rob discuss Taylor Swift’s affinity for jewels and they comment on the current state of social media.                                                                                                                     Hosted by: Paul Zimnisky Guest: Rob Bates Guest plug: www.robbatesauthor.com More information on PZDA’s State of the Diamond Market report: www.paulzimnisky.com/products   Show contact: paul@paulzimnisky.com or visit www.paulzimnisky.com.
Guest: Stuart Brown

Guest: Stuart Brown

2022-10-2655:13

In this 41st episode of the Paul Zimnisky Diamond Analytics Podcast, Paul enthusiastically welcomes Stuart Brown to the show. As the former co-CEO of De Beers and most recently CEO of Mountain Province Diamonds, Stuart provides a glimpse into the mind of one of the most prominent executives in the diamond industry. The conversation begins with Paul posing the big question: how long will diamonds stay relevant in the modern and changing consumer economy? Next, the discussion more specifically turns to lab-diamonds and Stuart talks about his time as a board member of Element 6 and how the industry viewed the threat of lab-diamond jewelry 15 years ago. Then, the two talk about diamond exploration and new mine development and the longer-term viability of natural diamond supply. Paul and Stuart then discuss industry marketing and why it works and Stuart shares how much he thinks the industry needs to spend in this area. Next, Stuart briefly shares a story of how he took the initiative to purchase the “Peace in Africa” ship while working for De Beers in his earlier days while high-level executives were on Christmas holiday (it is now one of the company’s most prominent mining vessels in operation off of the coast of Namibia). Finally, the two discuss the pending executive shift at De Beers and what it could mean for the larger industry.   Hosted by: Paul Zimnisky Guest: Stuart Brown Guest plug: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/stuart-brown-40884155 More information on PZDA’s State of the Diamond Market report: www.paulzimnisky.com/products   Show contact: paul@paulzimnisky.com or visit www.paulzimnisky.com.   Please note that the contents of this podcast includes anecdotes, observations and opinions. The information should not be considered investment or financial advice. Consult your investment professional before making any investment decisions. Please read full disclosure at: www.paulzimnisky.com.
Guest: Amish Shah Returns

Guest: Amish Shah Returns

2022-10-1901:13:57

Amish Shah from ALTR Created Diamonds returns to the show to discuss the latest in the lab-grown diamond and jewelry market. Paul and Amish begin by discussing LVMH’s latest sales results and the two share expectations for the upcoming holiday season. The conversation then moves to diamond supply and how Western sanctions on Russian natural diamonds is impacting lab-diamond demand. Next, the two discuss lab-diamond prices and what to make of current shortages in smaller size categories. Paul then raises the question of how retailers of lab-diamonds will respond if the novelty of the product wears off and margins soften. Finally, Paul and Amish discuss the impact of rising energy prices on lab-diamond production, foreign exchange rate volatility and the importance of diamond industry marketing.   Hosted by: Paul Zimnisky Guest: Amish Shah Guest plug: www.altr.nyc More information on PZDA’s State of the Diamond Market report: www.paulzimnisky.com/products   Show contact: paul@paulzimnisky.com or visit www.paulzimnisky.com.   Please note that the contents of this podcast includes anecdotes, observations and opinions. The information should not be considered investment or financial advice. Consult your investment professional before making any investment decisions. Please read full disclosure at: www.paulzimnisky.com.
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Comments (1)

Thomas Bayer

Thank you for the podcasts Paul!

May 8th
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