The Allender Center Podcast

What does it look like for the Church to become a true place of hope, healing, and care when it comes to mental health? In this week’s conversation, Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen are joined by Laura Howe, a clinical social worker and founder of Hope Made Strong and the Church Mental Health Summit, a free online event coming up on October 10, 2025. Laura shares her journey into bridging faith and mental health—born out of frustration and a longing to see the Church rise to its calling as a safe, caring community. Together, they explore the unique role the Church can play in mental health support: not as a replacement for clinical care, but as a vital presence of peer support, belonging, and discipleship that helps people feel seen and held. This episode touches on: How churches can move beyond programs to cultivate a culture of care The power of peer support as the “missing piece” in mental health conversations The theological and cultural obstacles that keep communities from engaging suffering honestly The very real challenges of compassion fatigue and burnout for leaders—and practices for resilience Whether you’re a pastor, ministry leader, caregiver, or someone longing to see your church embody greater compassion, this conversation offers both hope and practical wisdom for building communities where people can truly experience the canopy of care we all need.  

For many, theology brings to mind dusty bookshelves, abstract arguments, and rigid dogmas. But what if theology wasn’t static? What if it could move, breathe, and shape the way we live, love, and lead in the world? In this episode, Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen are joined by Dr. Lauren D. Sawyer to talk about living theology—a way of engaging God and Scripture that doesn’t stay confined to the context of books, a classroom, or even church, but instead has “feet” that walk into our everyday lives. Lauren shares about The Seattle School’s new Certificate in Living Theology, a one-year online program designed to bring theology into conversation with psychology, culture, story, and community. Together, they explore why theology is never neutral, how our contexts shape what we believe, and why listening and dialogue are as essential as doctrine. You’ll hear how living theology is less about arriving at final answers and more about cultivating a faith that is reflective, embodied, and responsive to the complexities of our time. If you’ve ever longed for a way of doing theology that feels deeply connected to life, justice, and relational depth, this conversation is an invitation to consider what it means for theology to truly come alive. Learn more about the Certificate in Living Theology: theseattleschool.edu/programs/living-theology-certificate

This episode engages the topic of abuse, particularly sexual abuse. Listener discretion is advised. Dr. Dan Allender and Linda Royster, LCMHC—two of the leaders of our Recovery Week experiences—come together to reflect on the heart and history of this sacred work. Dan shares about the origins of Recovery Week in 1988, a gathering that began with a bold hope: that healing is possible for those carrying the wounds of childhood sexual abuse. Linda offers her own story of first encountering The Wounded Heart and the ways it opened her to the possibility of transformation.  Together, they invite us into a deeper understanding of what it means to hold both the personal and the collective—acknowledging that no one suffers in isolation, but always within systems and contexts that shape our stories. Linda speaks to the profound intersections of racial trauma and sexual abuse, and the complex layers of shame that can silence and fragment survivors.  Recovery Weeks create a space to move toward those particularities of the harm you’ve experienced—where you may want to freeze, minimize, or look away—and to take the courageous step of naming what is true. The goal is not to erase or resolve shame, but to walk through it, opening the way for transformation. This conversation is an honoring of the decades of work poured into Recovery Weeks, and a heartfelt invitation: to those who come, your presence is already a profound act of courage. Our hope is that you might encounter a deeper healing that makes way for new life.  

We are made in the image of a wildly creative God—and that means creativity lives in each of us. Yet, while it flows freely in childhood, many of us lose touch with it as adults, buried under busyness and productivity. What would it look like to recover creativity—not just for ourselves, but within our closest relationships? This week, Dan and Becky Allender sit down with longtime friends John and Sue Cunningham, who are both creative in their own right. John is a potter, Sue is a poet, and together they’ve discovered both the beauty and the challenges of nurturing creativity in their marriage. Their conversation explores: The vulnerable (and sometimes costly) work of encouraging creativity in one another How creativity can be both communal and connecting, and also deeply individual and isolating The patience, generosity, and curiosity that can support your partner’s creative passions Practical ways to offer meaningful feedback and engagement without shutting each other down Whether you write, paint, play music, garden, or simply long to bring more beauty into your life, this episode will encourage you to see creativity not only as a personal practice—but as a vital part of your relationship.  

Marriage isn’t only shaped by the big events and ruptures—it’s also shaped by the little things. The small arguments that seem to surface again and again, the shifts in family roles as children grow up and move out, and even the physical changes that come with aging can quietly wear away at a relationship if left unspoken. In this episode of the Allender Center Podcast, Dr. Dan and Becky Allender are joined by Dr. Steve and Lisa Call to revisit the topic of marriage following the release earlier this year of their book, The Deep-Rooted Marriage.  Together, they name the everyday tensions—like bickering over household tasks or navigating the emotional weight of an empty nest—that can strain a relationship. More importantly, they share how couples can stay “buoyed together” through kindness, curiosity, and honest conversation. From asking simple questions like “What’s going on for you?” to practicing story work that helps us understand the deeper histories beneath our conflicts, this conversation offers hope and guidance for cultivating resilience and intimacy in marriage. Whether you’re facing small resentments, major life transitions, or simply longing for more connection, this episode invites you to consider how kindness, curiosity, and story work can deepen your relationship.  Please Note: This episode contains some mature language; listener discretion is advised.  

What does it take to thrive in our relationships—not just survive—and how can the Enneagram help us along the way? In this episode of The Allender Center Podcast, Rachael Clinton Chen sits down with Christa Hardin, founder of Enneagram + Marriage and author of “The Enneagram in Marriage: Your Guide to Thriving Together in Your Unique Pairing.” Christa brings years of wisdom from her own relationship, plus her expertise as a marriage coach and therapist, to offer a hopeful, honest perspective on why personality awareness matters—but why it’s never the whole story. Together, Rachael and Christa explore: ✔ Why joyful feelings (and even celebration) can feel harder than conflict—and what that reveals about us. ✔ Christa’s concept of the Glow Stages in relationships—what they are, why we can’t live on the mountaintop forever, and how to navigate the necessary valleys with grace. ✔ How the Enneagram helps us honor our gifts, name our shadows, and stay curious about ourselves and each other—whether in marriage, parenting, dating, or our spiritual lives. ✔ Why love, when nurtured well, not only transforms a marriage but becomes a force for calling, courage, and blessing in the world. Whether you’re single, newly married, in the trenches of parenting, or decades into a partnership, you’ll find wisdom here for becoming more wholehearted—and more deeply connected. We invite you to listen to discover how your story, your marriage, and your love can grow through every stage. Get the completely FREE extra chapter of “The Enneagram and Marriage: Your Guide to Thriving Together in Your Unique Pairing” here: https://www.enneagramandmarriage.com/hiddenchapter

Spiritual abuse can shatter trust—not only in people and institutions, but sometimes even in God. It can leave survivors wondering if healing or belonging is possible on the other side of betrayal. In this conversation, Rachael Clinton Chen is joined by Brian Lee, founder of Broken to Beloved. Brian shares his story of growing up as a pastor’s kid, becoming a pastor himself, and eventually facing the reality of spiritual abuse in his own life. Out of that painful journey, he has learned the daily work of reminding himself—and others—that no matter what has been taken, we are still beloved. This work doesn’t happen in isolation. Brian and Rachael name the importance of the wider movement—survivors, advocates, pastors, and therapists—who are rising up to expose abuse and create spaces of honesty, care, and repair. Together they remind us that while spiritual abuse is devastating, it does not have the final word. You can learn more about Broken to Beloved at brokentobeloved.org.  Plus, this fall, we hope you’ll join Brian, Rachael, and a host of other speakers at the Broken to Beloved Gathering in Richmond, VA, this October 10-11, 2025. Tickets are available at: https://www.brokentobeloved.org/gatheringinterest

What does it look like to stand with a community through fire—both literal and systemic?  In this conversation, Rev. Marcos Canales and Rev. Dr. Robert Chao Romero join Rachael Clinton Chen to share their experiences leading and loving the Latino community in the Los Angeles area, especially during recent times of crisis. From homes lost and families displaced by devastating wildfires this year to the crushing weight of recent unjust immigration policies that threaten daily survival, these realities are urgent and relentless. Amid these challenges, they share how they create space for lament, fierce hope, and necessary rest in their lives as leaders. They show what it means to bear witness with empathy, stand in true solidarity, and nurture resilience when the world feels like it’s falling apart. Beyond politics, agendas, and policies, their witness points to a deeper hope in Jesus—one that sustains, heals, and empowers communities to keep moving forward. We invite you to listen, learn, and be moved by their wisdom—shaped by personal and communal healing. You can learn more about La Fuente Ministries and how you can support their work: https://www.lfmpasadena.org/

What if the secret to more connected parenting isn’t about getting everything right — but about showing up enough to make things right when you don’t? In this week’s episode, Rachael Clinton Chen talks with Eli Harwood, aka @attachmentnerd — licensed therapist, award-winning author, and one of Instagram’s most trusted voices on attachment and parenting. They dive into how our own attachment stories shape the way we relate to our kids, why being “good enough” really is enough, and how creating space for repair and consistency beats striving for perfection every time. With a blend of science, personal stories, and down-to-earth advice, Eli reminds us that secure attachment isn’t about flawless parenting — it’s about presence, patience, and showing up again and again. Whether you’re navigating the younger years, parenting teens, or unpacking your own childhood experiences, this conversation offers hope, grounding, and a fresh perspective. Visit her at AttachmentNerd.com where you can listen into her podcast, join the Nerd Herd, or even book an attachment coach. You can also follow her on Instagram, TikTok, and Facebook @attachmentnerd. And don’t forget to check out her books: Securely Attached: Transform Your Attachment Patterns into Loving, Lasting Romantic Relationships and Raising Securely Attached Kids: Using Connection-Focused Parenting to Create Confidence, Empathy & Resilience.

If you’ve ever struggled to make space for your own grief—or wondered why so many people around you seem to push through pain without tending to it—this episode offers a compelling and liberating invitation. Host Rachael Clinton Chen and guest co-host Wendell Moss sit down with Dr. Jamie Eaddy. Dr. Jamie is a thanatologist, which is a professional who studies and provides support related to death, dying, bereavement, and grief. She is also a grief and death doula, a healer, and the founder of The Ratchet Grief Project®. Jamie’s work centers especially on the Black community and other marginalized groups whose grief is often overlooked or dismissed. She invites us to see grief not as a private burden or spiritual failing, but as a sacred, communal, and even political process. Together, they name the systems that make it hard for us to grieve—particularly in communities shaped by Christian triumphalism, generational survival strategies, systemic racism, and the pressure to “keep going” at all costs.  Dr. Jamie challenges death-dealing theologies that shame us for being human and normalize suffering as something deserved or redemptive. Instead, she offers a vision of a God who grows with us, who is expansive, and who longs for us to be fully alive. This episode is a call to reclaim grief as part of what it means to be human—and to reimagine our faith, our communities, and our systems to reflect that truth. If you’re longing for permission to pause, to feel, and to be held in the midst of loss, we hope this conversation will meet you right where you are.  

In this final episode of the Sabbath Summer series, Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen guide us into the often-overlooked final movement of Sabbath: reflection. We began with anticipation—the courageous act of imagining rest. Then moved into participation—embracing play even in the midst of reality’s messiness. And now, we arrive at reflection—savoring what has been. But reflection doesn’t always come easily. In a culture that pushes us toward constant motion, pausing to ponder our day, our summer, or even a moment of joy can feel… unnatural. Or even risky. As Rachael shares, sometimes the goodness we taste is hard to hold. It intensifies longing. It reminds us of what’s still broken. And yet—it strengthens hope. Dan offers a glimpse into his own end-of-day rhythm with Becky. He reminds us that reflection is not about correction, but recollection—a gathering of the day’s moments to see what God is forming in us. This episode is an invitation to slow down, to savor, and to see: -What has this summer meant for you so far? -What might God be showing you through it? -And how might reflection become not just a one-time practice, but a way of holding eternity—right here, in the ordinary? Thank you for joining us for this three-part Sabbath Summer series. We’re grateful you chose to pause, reflect, and journey with us through anticipation, participation, and reflection. Our hope is that these conversations invited you into deeper rest—not just in your schedule, but in your spirit. May you carry what you've imagined, created, and savored into the days ahead, with openness to the delight and presence of God along the way.  

Last week, we talked about dreaming—giving ourselves permission to hope for delight and rest this summer. But what happens when those dreams meet reality? In Part 2 of the Sabbath Summer series, Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen explore the tension between desire and disappointment—the beautiful and the broken that live side by side in us, in others, and in the world. Because Sabbath isn’t just about dreaming and planning. It’s about participating. Living into the play. But here’s the truth: Things rarely go exactly as we imagined. Disappointment is often inevitable. And delight—true delight—often comes not in spite of brokenness, but within it. This episode is a deep invitation to stay in the story even when plans unravel. Dan and Rachael reflect on the paradox of Sabbath as a commandment that calls us not just to rest, but to remember what we’re fighting for: connection, restoration, joy, and relationship—with ourselves, each other, and with God. Sabbath isn't an escape from the world’s urgency—it’s a radical act of resistance and reconstruction within it. As you listen, consider: How might you make space this summer not just for fun, but for redemptive play—play that embraces imperfection, disappointment, and still dares to hope? *This episode contains some explicit language. Listener discretion is advised.  

What if Sabbath isn’t just a day on your calendar—but a mindset you carry with you into every part of your life? In the first bite-sized episode of our 3-part summer series, Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen invite us to anticipate rest and play, not just plan for it.  They explore how Sabbath can be more than a scheduled pause—it can be a rhythm woven into your days, your relationships, even a quiet afternoon on the porch. Can you give yourself permission to imagine delight this summer—without immediately turning it into a to-do list? And how do we hold space for the parts of us that know disappointment, that fear the desire might not be fulfilled? This episode is an invitation to lean into your summer not with pragmatism, but with anticipation—allowing hope, imagination, and Sabbath delight to shape what’s possible. Whether you're planning a vacation, navigating a full house, or just trying to find 30 minutes of quiet—we hope this 3-part series will encourage you to pause, reflect, and imagine a new way of being present.  

DARVO—”Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender”—is a powerful manipulation tactic often used to silence those who speak up about harm. In this episode, Dan and Rachael unpack how DARVO shows up not only in personal relationships but also in churches, politics, and other systems where power is protected at all costs. Together, they explore the deep psychological and spiritual impact of DARVO, particularly in narcissistic relationships or systems. Drawing from Dr. Jennifer Freyd’s work on betrayal trauma, they name the disorientation, grief, and exile that often follow when someone dares to speak what is true. What happens when cruelty masquerades as righteousness? When loyalty is measured by silence? This conversation holds space for those heartbreaks—and offers fierce, grounded hope. In a culture that often gaslights those who cry out for justice, Dan and Rachael remind us: love, truth, and healing are not just possible—they are sacred acts of resistance. And it’s not something we confront alone. With the presence of wise, compassionate others—therapists, pastors, friends, and communities of care—we can learn to trust what is true, reclaim our voice, and boldly participate in the redemptive work of love.  

What does it take to cultivate real transformation in a faith community? Not just busier programs or better Bible studies, but real change – mind, body, and soul? In this episode, Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen talk with Petra Malekzadeh, Facilitation Development Manager at the Allender Center, about what it looks like to bring story work into the life of a local church.  Drawing on her years of ministry leadership and her training in Narrative Focused Trauma Care®, Petra shares both the challenges and beauty of inviting people to engage their stories as part of discipleship. Listen in to explore: Why story work belongs at the heart of spiritual formation The importance of leadership buy-in and shared language How to navigate resistance and build trust What becomes possible when vulnerability is honored This conversation invites you to imagine a church where story work isn’t a side ministry—it’s how we grow into the people God is calling us to be.  

If you like a good story, we think you’ll like this episode. This week, we’re honored to welcome John Kasich—a national leader, lifelong public servant, and gifted storyteller. Throughout his career, he’s met thousands of people, and he’s here to share just a few of the stories that have stayed with him. As the 69th Governor of Ohio (2011–2019), Gov. Kasich led with a focus on unity and problem-solving. He rose to national prominence during his 2016 presidential run and continues to serve today through his work with the Kasich Company, his role as a political analyst for NBC and MSNBC, and as the author of several New York Times bestsellers. His latest book, Heaven Help Us: How Faith Communities Inspire Hope, Strengthen Neighborhoods, and Build the Future, is the heart of this week’s conversation. John shares some of his personal journey—including how the sudden loss of his parents in a car accident became a life-altering moment. He also invites us into the deeply moving stories from his new book—stories of ordinary people in churches, synagogues, and mosques doing extraordinary work to serve their neighbors. These aren’t just heartwarming accounts; they’re powerful reminders of how faith can drive tangible, lasting change. This conversation moves quickly—so we encourage you to grab a copy of Heaven Help Us and spend time with these stories yourself. Join us for a conversation full of hope, challenge, and inspiration—about what’s possible when we come together, rooted in faith, to love our neighbors and build a better world.  

We’re living in a time that’s quietly—but profoundly—reshaping our souls. Formed by a world of speed, efficiency, and endless information, most of us have been trained to seek quick answers, avoid ambiguity, and live with the belief that if we just do X, then Y will happen. It's not our fault—we’ve been discipled by our cultural moment, where data is king and mystery is often treated with suspicion. In the process, many of us have come to approach faith with an overdeveloped left brain—craving clarity and control, while growing uncomfortable with the unknown, the mystical, the experiential. And yet… something deeper in us still longs for more. In this episode, Dr. Dan Allender is joined by psychologist and New York Times Bestselling Author John Eldredge to explore the themes of John’s new book, “Experience Jesus. Really.” Together, they offer a timely, tender invitation: to recover a life with God that is not only true, but felt—a life rooted in presence, wonder, and communion. This conversation explores: Why our modern world makes it hard to access the presence of God The invitation to become an “ordinary mystic”—someone who experiences God from the inside out What it means to live as an “amphibious” being, rooted in both the physical and spiritual How the presence of Jesus brings refuge, healing, and integration—especially in trauma Why this isn’t just for the spiritual elite—but for all of us, here and now John draws from the wisdom of Christian mystics, scripture, and his own story to illuminate what it means to truly walk with Jesus today—in your body, your story, and your real life. If you’ve ever found yourself saying, “I want to experience more of God, but I don’t know how”—we invite you to listen to this episode. Listener Resources: Be sure to check out John Eldredge’s latest book, “Experience Jesus. Really.” here: https://wildatheart.org/books/experience-jesus-really Revisit the webinar, “The Power of Jesus in Therapeutic Practice” with Dan Allender and John Eldredge, to discover how to authentically integrate best practices with the healing power and loving care of God in your therapy practice: https://online.theallendercenter.org/courses/stories-that-shape-us-the-power-of-jesus-in-therapeutic-practice   

Have you ever felt unseen in a place where you were supposed to be known? Or like the more you tried to bring your true self forward, the more you were asked to hide it? Today on the podcast, author Aimee Byrd joins Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen to talk about her new book, Saving Face: Finding My Self, God, and One Another Outside a Defaced Church.  It’s a deeply personal and theological reflection on spiritual abuse, identity, and healing—especially in the wake of church systems that no longer reflect the face of Christ. Together, they explore what it means to reclaim your face—your personhood, your story, your sacred calling. Aimee draws on the rich insight of philosopher Emmanuel Levinas, who wrote that the face is not merely a physical feature, but the place where we encounter both God and one another. To truly see another’s face is to take responsibility for their dignity and to recognize Christ’s presence there. Aimee shares her story of how a system that promised reform instead left her mocked, erased, and dehumanized. In that disillusionment, she came to a painful but powerful realization: we don’t just need reform. We need resurrection. A death to false forms of power, toxic moralism, and spiritual posturing—and a return to humility, presence, and love. This conversation offers an honest look at the loneliness of holding onto your God-given identity when others turn away, the courage it takes to seek the face of God in others, and the deep hope that emerges when we begin to see—and be seen—face to face. Listen to this week’s episode about “Saving Face” with Aimee Byrd, and be sure to pick up a copy of her book at: https://aimeebyrd.com/saving-face/

What if your first addiction wasn’t to a substance, but to someone’s approval? In part two of our conversation with Ian Morgan Cron, we go deeper into the cycle of addiction, codependency, and the hope of recovery. Whether you're struggling with a relationship, a habit, a performance-driven mindset, or just the weight of trying to “be good,” this episode offers a profound invitation: transformation doesn't come from trying harder—it comes from surrender. You'll hear stories about the power of the 12 Steps, why spiritual awakening matters more than willpower, and how our early longings for love and safety often become tangled in the behaviors we’re desperate to change. We talk about ministry, leadership, trauma, boundaries, and what it really means to carry your healing into the lives of others. This isn’t a conversation about fixing people—it’s about engaging your own story so you can show up with greater freedom, compassion, and clarity. Take a breath, take a listen. We hope you’ll hear something that helps you come home to yourself. You can order Ian’s new book here: https://ianmorgancron.com/thefix  Please Note: This episode contains some mature language; listener discretion is advised.  

Underneath every addiction is a deeper ache—and a surprising path to healing. Bestselling author, therapist, and Episcopal priest Ian Morgan Cron joins Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen to share insights from his newest book, The Fix: How the Twelve Steps Offer a Surprising Path of Transformation for the Well-Adjusted, the Down-and-Out, and Everyone In Between. Ian invites us to reconsider the Twelve Steps—not just as a recovery tool for addicts, but as a grace-filled path of spiritual awakening for anyone longing for freedom, connection, and intimacy with God. This conversation is for everyone—not just those who identify as alcoholics or addicts. As Ian says, these steps offer healing to people who struggle with all kinds of attachments and compulsions: workaholism, people-pleasing, tech and porn addiction, codependency, control, food, spending, approval, sports betting… the list goes on. Ian points out that most of us are poly-addicted, caught in multiple patterns that disconnect us from God, ourselves, and each other. So this isn’t about comparing struggles or measuring severity. It’s about asking: Do I want to be free? Do I want to live with more honesty, grace, and surrender?  Whether or not you think you “need” the Steps, this conversation is a compassionate, humorous, and deeply spiritual invitation to let go of self-reliance and move toward the healing you were made for. Listen to Part 1 now, and be sure to come back next week for Part 2. In the meantime, you can order Ian’s new book here: https://ianmorgancron.com/thefix  Please Note: This episode contains some mature language; listener discretion is advised.