Unsung Podcast

Bowie fans have long found ways to make peace with some of the more unsavoury aspects of his character and behaviour during that decade. His Thin White Duke persona highlights what, by his own admission, were “the darkest days” of his life. And while he was quick to distance himself from that character as he grew older, its influence on certain members of the British far right certainly left a mark. Yet there is a much darker period of his life than this. It is now a matter of record that he was in sexual relationships with both Lori Maddox and Sable Starr — perhaps the two most infamous “baby groupies” of the early ’70s — when they were just 13 and 15 years old, respectively. Grim stuff all round. We’ll be exploring both of these aspects of his life in this week’s episode, as well as the wider “baby groupie” culture of the era. This episode raises questions about separating the art from the artist, the role of 1970s rock culture, and the personal responsibility of fans. Join us as we navigate the challenging waters of moral grandstanding and personal hypocrisy, questioning if, and how, we can reconcile admiration for Bowie’s art with the transgressions of the man himself. Highlights 00:00 Introduction 00:38 Unfinished Business with David Bowie 02:26 Trigger Warnings 04:05 David Bowie's Complex Legacy 13:57 Fascism and Controversial Statements 38:50 Sexual Misdeeds and Allegations 41:05 Introduction to Statutory Rape in Rock Culture 41:30 The Story of Dana Gillespie and David Bowie 42:34 Lori Maddox and the Baby Groupies 43:29 Sable Starr and the Rock Scene 45:05 The Culture of Underage Groupies 47:24 Laurie Maddox's Relationship with David Bowie 56:51 Jimmy Page and Laurie Maddox 01:00:06 The Wider Problem in Rock Culture 01:07:45 Modern Reflections on Past Actions 01:14:58 Conclusion and Final Thoughts Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

We're back after a fairly shambolic three weeks in our lives (redundancy sure does suck) with this slice of fried gold from the 1980s. You've almost certainly heard the lead single from this record. In fact, the question as to who the singer is of the song "The Warrior" has quite likely come up on a pub quiz at some point, and you've quite likely got the answer wrong. The answer is not, as you may think, Pat Benetar. It's Patty Smyth. The single this album is named after was an 80s hit, and penned by the legendary Holly Knight. We won't go into a huge amount of detail on her here, but suffice to say we think she's criminally underrated given some of the ginormous tunes she penned in the 80s. Indeed, we cover that in extensive detail in our episode on her short-lived band Device. Scandal imploded soon after this record was released, and members of the band, Patty included, went on to have varying degrees of success in the late 80s and early 90s. Patty Smyth's story itself is a fascinating one, so fascinating in fact that we actually forgot to talk all about her marriage to Television's Richard Hell. That one glaring omission aside, we do a pretty deep dive into Scandal and her career afterwards. HIGHLIGHTS: 00:00 Introduction and Pub Quiz Banter 00:35 Scandal and Patty Smyth: The Early Days 01:22 The Warrior and MTV Success 03:29 Classic Bands and Radio Challenges 05:03 Band Dynamics and Touring 07:24 Patty Smyth's Solo Career and Label Issues 18:31 Declining Van Halen and Family Priorities 21:19 Reunions and Later Years 27:12 Unreleased Tracks and MTV Hits 27:25 Goodbye to You and Other Hits 28:46 Fun Facts and Jimmy Fallon Appearance 29:39 Brian Adams Cover and Other Tracks 31:53 Christmas Album and Charity Work 33:22 The Warrior Album Review 34:44 Songwriting and Collaborations 38:40 The Warrior Music Video 43:12 Journey Song and Album Critique 45:10 Legacy and Final Thoughts Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This week we're diving into why bands like Godspeed You! Black Emperor and King Gizzard are pulling their music from Spotify - and why it probably won't change anything. It's a trickier situation than it seems, but the whole mess starts with Napster in 1999. 80 million people sharing MP3s illegally crashed the music industry, dropping revenue 15% in four years and creating a chain reaction that led to piracy running rampant for much of the 00s. Enter Daniel Ek in 2006 with Spotify, which was built initially using pirated music from The Pirate Bay, telling you everything about how much they value artists. But it worked. By offering free access to entire music catalogues (with ads), Spotify created something no competitor can match without hemorrhaging money. Today, 412 million people use Spotify's free tier. That's the foundation of their dominance - not the 263 million paying subscribers. But this creates an impossible situation for artists. Big names with established fanbases can afford to leave, but new artists risk invisibility. Record labels and promoters judge bands by Spotify monthly listeners and post-gig discovery relies on easy music access, meaning that pulling your music from this platform could be potentially damaging for their careers. The "just use Bandcamp" argument misses the point - it's a different business model entirely. Bandcamp is buying a car; Spotify is hiring any car you want. And as it turns out, a LOT of people prefer hiring now. But the real problem isn't Spotify - it's "technofeudalism." Tech platforms operate like medieval fiefdoms where users become trapped serfs. Artists complain about Spotify royalties while creating free content for Instagram and TikTok, which monetise their labour through surveillance capitalism. The arms investment angle (Daniel Ek's €600m in AI weapons) sounds damning until you realise Google runs military AI projects for Israel, Meta builds battlefield AR for the US military, and all big tech props up the military-industrial complex. Their conclusion is bleak: there's no way out. The market expects free music and won't change. Mass boycotts might work but won't happen. The only real solution is direct artist support - gigs, merch, Bandcamp purchases, because it's almost impossible for anyone to truly extricate themselves from terrible machinery of the current internet era. Highlights: 00:00 Introduction: Bands Leaving Spotify 00:15 The Techsodus Idea and Streaming Services 02:23 History of Music Piracy: From Napster to Spotify 07:01 Spotify's Rise and Artist Payments 16:15 Technofeudalism and the Creator Economy 28:34 Spotify's Business Model and Market Dominance 34:58 The Spotify Dilemma: Free Access and Market Expectations 35:15 Apple's Potential and the iTunes Model Revival 35:53 Bandcamp: A Hopeful Alternative? 39:17 The Discoverability Advantage of Streaming Platforms 47:15 The Moral and Practical Dilemma for Artists 59:52 The Broader Issue: Platform Capitalism and Tech Giants 01:15:00 Supporting Artists Directly is The Only Real Solution Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

As stated at numerous points in this episode, a lot of the things discussed here can be found in the documentary Goodbye Horses: The Many Lives of Q Lazzarus. We urge you to go check out that film here: https://vimeo.com/ondemand/qlazzarus as it is a brilliant piece of work. For long time pod fans, this episode could technically be classed as part of our unsong series. But the reality is that the story of Q Lazzarus is so interesting, that it simply bursts out of the constraints of that format. Q Lazzarus/Diane Luckey, is best known for the song "Goodbye Horses", a track that you've almost certainly heard at some point in your life. It's most notable use was in the Jonathan Demme classic Silence of the Lambs, but it has been used in a bunch of films since then, and covered by an array of artists. It is, in fact, that only "official" release by Q Lazzarus. She would later go on to appear in Demme's next film, the wonderful Philadelphia, singing a cover of Roxy Music's classic tune "Heaven". After that, though, she would simply vanish from the industry entirely. So what happened? Why did this seemingly promising up and coming artist, who had two huge brushes with fame, suddenly disappear without trace? Well, it's a rather complicated, and compelling, story that touches on industry discrimination, artist exploitation, and the music business's treatment of unique talents. This week we dive into that story, with the help of a remarkable documentary film called Goodbye Horses: The Many Lives of Q Lazzarus - a film that came about through an almost impossibly serendipitous encounter between filmmaker Eva Aridjis Fuentes and her mysterious subject. The documentary is available on Vimeo and you should absolutely check it out for yourself, alongside the Sacred Bones compilation of her previously unreleased works. Please note that this story deals with some heavy themes and doesn't have the resolution we might hope for, but it's an important and deeply affecting tale that deserves to be told. Highlights: 00:32 Discussing Q Lazarus and 'Goodbye Horses' 02:30 The Mystery Behind Q Lazarus 03:19 Q Lazarus's Musical Journey 05:36 The Impact of 'Goodbye Horses' 07:19 The Search for Q Lazarus 12:01 Eva Aridjis Fuentes and the Documentary 17:58 Q Lazarus's Early Life and Career 30:37 The Duality of Q Lazarus and Diane Luckey 31:36 The Role of Luck in Diane's Life 32:52 Career Setbacks and Personal Struggles 34:00 Heartbreak and Disillusionment 34:57 Descent into Darkness 38:10 A Glimmer of Hope: Motherhood and Redemption 39:47 The Unreleased Works and Legacy 42:12 The Battle for Royalties 44:17 The Impact of Goodbye Horses 53:16 The Unfulfilled Potential and Legacy Tours 57:31 Final Thoughts and Reflections Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Everyone knows Hulk Hogan's entrance music, but how many know the fascinating story behind Rick Derringer's "Real American"? With the recent passing of Hulk Hogan, we thought we’d revisit a previous episode and update it with new information. Oh, and also to film the whole dang thing as we weren’t doing that back then. So, this week we’re exploring the unlikely journey of a song that became one of wrestling's most iconic themes, examining its cultural impact, political appropriation, and the complex legacy of both its creator and, in some ways, Hulk Hogan too. From Rick Derringer's impressive musical pedigree (The McCoys, collaborations with Steely Dan, producing Weird Al) to the song's evolution from US Express theme to Hogan's signature tune, we unpack how a piece of 1980s excess became a cultural touchstone - and political football. We also talk about Rick Derringer's extensive musical career and connections, the origins and evolution of "Real American"; WWE's "Rock and Wrestling Connection" era in the mid to late 80s; the song's political appropriation across decades; Hulk Hogan's controversial legacy and recent passing; the music video's gloriously over-the-top 80s aesthetic and more. Let’s fight for the right of every man. Or everyone, depending on the version you prefer. Episode Highlights 00:00 - Introduction and Hulk Hogan's recent cultural relevance 01:30 - Rick Derringer's impressive musical CV and career highlights 03:00 - The creation story: "The most patriotic song of all time" 05:30 - Wrestling music history and the Rock and Wrestling Connection 12:00 - How "Real American" became Hogan's theme (it wasn't originally!) 15:00 - Hulk Hogan's controversial legacy and recent scandals 18:00 - The Wrestling Album and WWE's musical ambitions 22:30 - The song's political life and cultural appropriation 28:00 - Iron Sheik's legendary Twitter feuds with Hogan 31:40 - Rick Derringer's own political evolution and re-recording 36:30 - The gloriously cheesy music video breakdown 41:00 - Why this song represents the 1980s perfectly 44:00 - Final thoughts on Hogan's impact and the song's enduring legacy Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Like us, are you somewhat uncomfortable of about Pantera playing with Metallica? Why exactly might that be? We need to explore what it is about Phil Anselmo that gives people that icky feeling. This week we try to put some meat on the bones about the rumours that have dogged Anselmo for the last three decades of his career. White supremacist? Racist? Just a bit of a steamer?  What is it about this guy that has gotten him this reputation? Is it merited? And if it is merited, do we have any sort of obligation to act on that? The Pattern of Behaviour It's an issue that's dogged Phil throughout his career, but came into sharp focus at the conclusion of the Dimebash concert in 2016. The thing is though, focusing too much on that fiasco is that it allows flimsy and bad faith justifications. Too much alcohol is one. "Oh, he was just trolling" is another. They've been fairly successfully passed off as excuses for not just his misdeeds that night, but his behaviour more generally. That smokescreen has enabled millions of paying Pantera fans to handwave away the evidence of their own eyes and ears. Denial is a powerful thing, especially when a band is so intrinsically tied up in the carefully guarded nostalgia of countless nineties teenhoods. Anselmo's history with white supremacist rhetoric and imagery goes back a long way. It's been scattered, downplayed, obfuscated to such an extent that it's easy to lose track. We gather all those details in one place so you can make better informed decisions about where you spend your money and what sort of behaviour we seek to excuse on literally the biggest of the world's stages. Episodes Referenced Our interview with former white supremacist turned anti-extremist advocate Arno Michaelis: https://bleav.com/shows/unsung-podcast/episodes/in-session-12-arno-michaelis-author-anti-extremism-activist-and-former-white-nationalist-side-a-360/ Slayer - South of Heaven: https://bleav.com/shows/unsung-podcast/episodes/episode-203-south-of-heaven-by-slayer/ Highlights 00:00 Introduction and Initial Reactions 00:14 Why Pantera Supporting Metallica Feels Wrong 01:02 Your Money is Your Vote: Consumer Responsibility 01:54 The Pattern Begins: Early Controversial Incidents 03:42 The Dimebash Incident: Sieg Heil on Stage 06:07 A Decades-Long History of Problematic Behaviour 21:03 Confederate Flags: Heritage Not Hate? 25:27 Dog Whistles and Lyrical Controversies 30:32 The Night Everything Changed: Dimebash 2016 31:28 What Actually Happened at the Concert 31:50 Rob Flynn Breaks Ranks 32:55 The Silence Before the Storm 33:57 From 0% to 1000% Apologetic in Three Days 35:15 The Metal Press: Complicit in the Cover-Up? 36:58 Is Metal's "Radical Freedom" Part of the Problem? 38:12 Who Is Phil Anselmo Really? 53:31 Making Informed Choices as Music Consumers Support the Show You can support Unsung via Patreon at www.patreon.com/unsungpod. Join at the lower tier for bonus content, early access, and our closed members group where you can suggest episodes. Or join the record club where you get sent records by independent bands from independent labels. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You may have seen the AI band The Velvet Sundown pop up in the news recently and thought "well, that's weird". Long-time fans of the pod probably also thought "when are they going to do an episode on that?" Well, here it is! The Velvet Sundown - What Actually Happened? If you've been following us for a while you'll know that every 18 months or so we seem to return to broader discussions about where music and technology intersect. It began with an episode on Threatin (if you remember who Threatin is, well done) and how one man's quest for fame led to him faking a massive fanbase. A quest that ended with him playing to empty rooms across the UK, and saw him trying to retcon it into some kind of art hoax. Later, we discussed what a possible future using AI music might look like in March 2019, looking at the early attempts to create artificial intelligence music and how the data given to streaming platforms could very well be used to create music. An episode that is now quite prescient in retrospect. Mark was actually quite optimistic that a Velvet Sundown-esque AI band scenario would not come to pass. How naïve... And then in October 2023 we took a two episode deep dive into Spotify playlist manipulation, and how it began way back in the early days of radio with payola. Spotify algorithm manipulation plays a huge role in how the person/entity behind The Velvet Sundown was able to gain so much traction so quickly - reaching 1.1 million plays and potentially earning £35,000+ annually. AI Music - The Bigger Picture This week's episode continues this tradition. We cover some old ground in places (the history of AI music and playlist manipulation), but for the vast majority of the episode we break new ground. We look at the hard numbers around what this synthetic music "artist" stands to make, examine other AI-generated bands like Anna Indiana, The Devil Inside, and Aventhis, ponder both the inventive and interesting uses of artificial intelligence in music as well as the more troubling ones, and look at some possible futures in the wake of all this AI band controversy. You can also watch this episode on YouTube, if that's your thing. Link is here: https://youtu.be/04mYK3G4x5k If you've enjoyed this episode, do consider subscribing to our Patreon at www.patreon.com/unsungpod Highlights: 00:00 Introduction to The Velvet Sundown 00:36 AI in Music: From Skynet to Rei Toei 01:35 The Rise of The Velvet Sundown 03:05 AI Bands and Their Impact 07:33 History of AI in Music 17:18 Modern AI Music Innovations 33:31 The Future of AI in Music 36:10 Financial Implications of AI Bands 42:05 The Impact of AI on Job Replacement 43:43 The Uncanny Valley in AI Music 45:07 Genres and AI's Ability to Mimic Them 49:57 AI's Influence on Modern Music Production 55:21 The Rise of AI in Country Music 59:24 The Future of AI in the Music Industry 01:07:19 Ethical and Regulatory Concerns 01:21:34 Concluding Thoughts on AI in Music Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This week we're talking about US Maple. Which is a bit like saying we're talking about having your teeth drilled without anaesthetic. The Chicago quartet spent twelve years making music that deliberately disappointed every expectation you might have about rock music. They took guitars, drums, and vocals and somehow made them sound like they were arguing with each other in a language nobody understood. It was brilliant. It was infuriating. It was absolutely necessary. This is the final part of our Anti Rock trilogy, where we've been exploring bands that knew the rules of rock music inside out and chose to break every single one of them. US Maple didn't just break the rules though. They took the rulebook, fed it through a modified guitar with quarter tone frets, and sang over it like a demented lounge singer having a breakdown. We get into their impossible discography, their custom instruments that were designed to sound worse, their legendary tour with Pavement where they got pelted with rubbish nightly, and that infamous Oklahoma City incident involving Xanax and a cockroach. We also try to answer the eternal question: why would anyone voluntarily listen to this? Fair warning: this episode might make you feel slightly seasick. That's entirely by design. Featuring Ferruccio Quercetti from the brilliant Italian band Cut, who knows more about post punk and experimental music than literally anyone we know. Highlights: 00:00 Introduction and Welcome 00:58 Meet the Hosts and Anti-Rock Series Recap 05:25 Defining Anti-Rock vs. Post-Rock - The Core Question 18:51 Chicago's Noise Rock Scene and US Maple's Origins 20:32 The Band Formation and Todd Riman's Hybrid Guitar 24:00 "Snagglepuss on a Bender" - Early Recording Stories 31:47 The Commitment to Anti-Rock Philosophy 38:00 The Legendary Oklahoma City Incident 44:00 Shorty: The Band That Spawned US Maple 49:00 Album Deep Dive: Long Hair in Three Stages 59:08 Sang Fat Editor and Quarter-Tone Guitar Experiments 01:08:00 Talker and Working with Michael Gira 01:17:00 Purple on Time - The "Mainstream" Album 01:22:13 Al Johnson's Anti-Rock Manifesto 01:24:46 Why US Maple is "Weirdly Soothing" 01:29:00 Mark's Virgin Takeaway on the Band 01:33:54 Conclusion and Farewell Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This week we're diving headfirst into the gloriously pretentious world of No Wave - the three-year New York art scene that somehow managed to influence everything that followed. Chris has somehow convinced Mark and our resident Italian punk professor Ferro to explore how a bunch of art school dropouts in a financially bankrupt New York accidentally created one of music's most important movements. We start with New York City in 1978: a proper shithole where you'd genuinely risk your life getting a taxi to Brooklyn, Times Square was basically a war zone, and the city had literally gone bankrupt. Perfect conditions, as it turns out, for a load of bohemian kids to move in, pay bugger all rent, and start making the most deliberately difficult music imaginable. Enter Brian Eno, who's meant to be in New York producing Talking Heads like a normal person, but instead wanders into some art space gig and discovers bands like Teenage Jesus and the Jerks, DNA, Mars, and The Contortions doing something completely mental. Being Brian Eno, he obviously decides to document the whole thing, creating the legendary "No New York" compilation that basically put the entire movement on the map. We get properly stuck into the key figures: Lydia Lunch being an absolute force of nature in Teenage Jesus and the Jerks, James Chance slapping music critics (literally - he assaulted Robert Christgau), and the various weirdos who decided that what punk really needed was to be even more antagonistic to its audience. Ferro brings his encyclopaedic knowledge of the European connections, particularly the parallels between New York's urban decay and Berlin's post-war experimental scene. We explore how Einstürzende Neubauten were literally destroying studio floors with sledgehammers whilst Throbbing Gristle were essentially inventing industrial music in their Yorkshire squat. The conversation sprawls magnificently through Swans' absolutely punishing early albums, the way Sonic Youth emerged from this scene, and how bands like Bush Tetras and Rat at Rat R kept the torch burning. We also dive into some proper tangents about Madonna apparently being in an art punk band with future Swans members (mental) and how this whole movement influenced everything from the Load Records noise rock scene to modern post-metal. This is part two of our anti-rock trilogy. Last week we tackled the prehistory from musique concrète to Captain Beefheart, and next week we'll finally get to US Maple and try to explain why anyone would voluntarily subject themselves to their particular brand of musical torture. Highlights 00:00 Introduction to No Wave and Brian Eno's Influence 00:33 Welcome to the Podcast 01:04 Recap of Previous Episode 02:14 The Rise of No Wave in Late 1970s New York 02:46 Sociological Context of 1970s New York 02:59 Key Figures and Bands in No Wave 03:43 The No New York Compilation Album 07:59 Brian Eno's Role and Impact 11:02 Musical Influence and Legacy of No Wave 20:04 James Chance and The Contortions 22:44 Sonic Youth and Swans: Post No Wave Evolution 25:51 The Influence of Swans on Post-Metal 27:25 Exploring Lesser-Known Bands: Rat at Rat R and Bush Tetras 28:48 The Impact of Foetus and Throbbing Gristle 35:13 Berlin's No Wave Movement and Einstürzende Neubauten 41:08 The Legacy of No Wave in Chicago and Beyond 45:03 Anti-Rock Bands and Their Influence 48:38 Concluding Thoughts and Teasers for Next Episode Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This week we're tackling the wonderfully niche concept of anti-rock. Or more specifically, we're trying to work out what the hell it actually is, why Google doesn't seem to know either, and how it connects to everything from Frank Zappa taking the piss out of The Beatles to bands who are so talented they deliberately make themselves sound rubbish. Chris has dragged poor Mark and our resident punk professor Ferro down a rabbit hole that starts with French composers banging bits of concrete in the 1940s and somehow ends up at US Maple, a band that sounds like they're actively trying to annoy you. Along the way we encounter Captain Beefheart's deliberately mental Trout Mask Replica, The Residents being mysterious weirdos in eyeball masks, and Suicide essentially inventing electronic music with what amounts to a homemade fuzz box. We get properly stuck into the prehistory of experimental music, from Pierre Schaeffer's musique concrète through to the New York art scene of the 1970s. Our main thesis is that anti-rock isn't just noise for the sake of it - it's what happens when genuinely skilled musicians decide to systematically tear apart rock conventions from the inside. Think of it as punk's more cerebral, art school cousin who's read too much Derrida. This is part one of three. Next week we'll tackle the No Wave explosion in late 70s New York, and part three will finally explain why US Maple exist and why anyone would voluntarily listen to them. We also touch on Glenn Branca's guitar symphonies, Pere Ubu's Cleveland weirdness, and try to work out why some of the most influential experimental music came from artists who could absolutely play it straight if they wanted to. Spoiler: they definitely didn't want to. Timestamps: Episode Highlights: 00:00 Introduction and Initial Banter 00:51 Meet the Guest: Ferro (Not Pharaoh) 01:47 Ferro's Musical Journey and PhD in Punk 04:16 What the Hell Is Anti-Rock? 09:37 French Blokes Banging Concrete: The Birth of Musique Concrète 22:01 When Classical Composers Lost Their Minds 27:48 Moondog: The Homeless Viking of Sixth Avenue 28:25 How American Music Got Properly Weird 29:15 Snake Time Rhythms and Native American Influences 30:04 From Experimental Composers to Rock Subversion 30:36 Captain Beefheart's Deliberately Mental Masterpiece 35:05 Red Crayola: Texan Psychedelic Deconstructionists 40:42 The Residents: Eyeball Masks and Musical Terrorism 47:09 Suicide: Two Blokes and a Homemade Fuzz Box 52:06 Pere Ubu: Cleveland's Contribution to Musical Chaos 55:38 Setting Up the No Wave Explosion Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This week we're diving into the wonderfully gloomy world of Emma Ruth Rundle. Or more specifically, we're having a bit of a discussion whether she's actually goth or not, what goth even means, and how it may be broader than some think. Musically, Chris thinks most of her catalogue is a bit pants but she has artistic integreity. Mark reckons she's brilliant. Emma Ruth Rundle has spent her career shape-shifting between projects like some sort of musical chameleon with commitment issues. From her early folk-gaze days with The Nocturnes to her brief stint with post-rock titans Red Sparrows. From the overlooked Marriages project to her increasingly experimental solo work. She's never been one to stay in her lane. The question is: does all this reinvention actually work, or is it just restless artist syndrome? We get deep into the weeds of her entire discography. Our main focus is 2016's "Marked for Death", which Mark insists is her masterpiece and Chris... well, Chris has opinions. We also tackle the thorny question of what actually constitutes "goth" in 2025. Spoiler: it's probably not what you think. Plus we discuss her genuinely unnerving experimental albums. And try to work out why Sargent House thought it was a good idea to send a recovering alcoholic to record alone in the desert. With unlimited booze. Episode Highlights: 00:00 Introduction and Studio Setup at Variety Bar 05:21 The Great Goth Debate Begins 18:45 Emma Ruth Rundle's Project History 32:48 Electric Guitar One: Ambient Experiments 39:00 Some Heavy Ocean: The Proper Debut 44:14 On Dark Horses: Chris's Least Favourite 52:26 The Thou Collaboration: Overrated or Underrated? 59:48 Engine of Hell: Stripped Back and Boring? 1:04:06 Electric Guitar Two: Pure Horror Movie Soundtrack 1:13:28 Marked for Death: The Desert Sessions 1:26:00 Final Verdicts and Wrap-Up Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This week we're talking about the Leeds band Vessels. Or more specifically we're talking about their quite abrupt change from identikit post rock band to something a lot more electronic and a lot more enticing. By their own admission, Vessels had something of a problem: the band had to evolve or die. They were trapped making the same post rock songs as everyone else, using the same delay pedals, creating the same "emotional" buildups that made grown men in plaid shirts cry. So they did something radical: they put down their guitars and picked up synthesisers. The result was Dilate, an album that lost them some fans but gained them something more valuable - an actual identity. In this episode, we not only get into the weeds of their discography (as we always do), but we also talk about post rock generally, as well as the band's history, their decision to turn to live electronic, how much of a nightmare that actually can be to pull off live, the influence that Berlin clubs had on their new direction, and so much more. Episode highlights: 00:00 Introduction and Podcast Setup 02:24 Introducing the Band: Vessels 03:57 Exploring Vessels' Evolution 07:26 The Post-Rock Genre and Vessels' Place in It 25:16 Vessels' Early Work and Initial Reception 37:41 Analysing the Last Third of the Album 38:06 Songwriting Evolution and Structural Ambitions 38:48 Drummers and Instrumentation 39:59 Remixes and Bonus Albums 40:29 Glastonbury and the Inflection Point 41:02 Transition to Electronic Music 41:46 Reflecting on the Change of Direction 44:56 The Great Distraction Album 45:19 Challenges of Remote Collaboration 47:39 Vocal Contributions and Collaborations 54:19 Dilate Album Review 01:08:42 Conclusion and Final Thoughts Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This week Dave returns as we dive into our bag of covermount CDs and unearth a real gem. If you were buying Kerrang! in August 2002, you might remember issue 918 with The Prodigy on the cover. What you definitely remember is the cover-mount CD that came with it - Hometaping Volume Two, curated by Amen's Casey Chaos. This wasn't your typical corporate compilation of radio-friendly metal and whatever major labels were pushing that month. This was a proper education in underground extremity, compiled by someone who'd been living in the trenches since he was photographed at Black Flag gigs in 1982. Casey wasn't messing about. He whittled down his selection from 60 songs, phoned Henry Rollins and Satyr personally for unreleased tracks, and designed the cover himself. The result was 26 tracks of whiplash-inducing genius that introduced countless metal and punk fans to bands they'd never have discovered otherwise. From Refused's "New Noise" and Iron Monkey's feral sludge to birthday party's pre-Bad Seeds insanity and proper OG punk from Discharge and X-Ray Specs, this was cultural education disguised as a free CD. The fact we're still dissecting every track choice 20+ years later proves Casey achieved something genuinely special - a compilation that worked as both a history lesson and a challenge to dig deeper into the underground. Episode Highlights [00:00:00] Welcome to the cave: Easter resurrections and new studio vibes [00:05:39] Casey Chaos biography: From skateboard prodigy to punk legend [00:18:00] Rollins Band gets the pub rock treatment (Chris ducks for cover) [00:24:00] The Kinison: When Oblong, Illinois meets post-hardcore [00:29:00] Murderdolls: Budget Misfits for the nu-metal generation [00:32:00] Discharge delivers the D-beat masterclass [00:43:00] Iron Monkey: Nottingham sludge at its most feral [00:37:00] Refused drops "New Noise" and changes everything [00:42:00] Turbonegro: Norwegian glam-punk that divides the room [00:43:00] Void: The DC hardcore deep cut that finally clicks [00:46:00] Immortal: When black metal meets the Tony Hawk soundtrack [00:51:00] X-Ray Specs: Polystyrene schools the youngsters [00:56:00] Zyklon: Emperor side-project with uncomfortable baggage [01:02:00] Cave In: The wrong track for the right band [01:04:00] Birthday Party: Nick Cave's mental early years get the respect they deserve [01:06:00] Nasum: Swedish grindcore brings back the brutality [01:07:00] The Distillers: Brody Dalle's voice cuts through everything [01:13:00] Eyehategod vs Iron Monkey: The great sludge debate [01:14:00] Division of Laura Lee: Sweden's most forgettable export [01:15:00] The Haunted: At The Gates members go full throttle [01:17:00] Mortiis: Norwegian dungeon synth gets the goth treatment [01:20:00] Gary Numan: The robot pioneer closes out the education [01:22:00] Highlights, lowlights, and wild cards: The final verdict Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Joe from Shit You May Not Have Seen Podcast/the bands Go Down Fighting and Man Must Die, jois us this week. And his pick is somewhat controversial: Immortal Technique's second album second album Revolutionary Vol. 2. In true unsung style, it ends up leading to a massive debate about separating art and artist, all whilst looking closely at his politics and dissemination of conspiracy theories. Felipe Coronel fled Peru's civil war as a child, became a battle rap champion, and built a career on politically charged underground hip-hop - but how much of his "truth-telling" is actually that? We get into the weeds with that and much more. Highlights: [00:02:00] - Fash comments on recent anti-fascist videos [00:04:00] - Joe's hip-hop origin story since 1992 [00:13:00] - Chris's deep-dive into Technique's Peru background [00:30:00] - InfoWars appearance discussion begins [00:33:00] - Sandy Hook moment that disgusts Chris [00:38:00] - COVID conspiracy theories breakdown [00:44:00] - Andrew Tate connection revealed [00:53:00] - Revolutionary Volume Two track-by-track [01:00:00] - Jean Gray vocabulary study tangent [01:18:00] - "Point of No Return" analysis [01:22:00] - "Dance With the Devil" storytelling masterclass [01:33:00] - "You Never Know" - the other narrative banger [01:40:00] - Mark's final verdict on the confrontational tone [01:47:00] - Bonus Peru World Cup conspiracy (Chris's Nexus moment) [01:51:00] - Next week: Casey Chaos compilation with Dave Weaver Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On this episode we dive deep into the musical history of one of Italy's most fascinating and forward-thinking bands - Krisma (or Chrisma as they were originally known). This husband and wife duo from Milan created music that was light years ahead of its time, with their 1977 album "Chinese Restaurant" laying the groundwork for sounds that wouldn't become mainstream until decades later. We explore how this band went from Italian pop stardom to experimental post-punk pioneers, working with the likes of Hans Zimmer and Vangelis along the way. We chat about their various musical reinventions, that time Maurizio allegedly cut his finger off on stage (or did he?), and how their track "Miami" sounds remarkably like Radiohead's Kid A... except it was released 23 years earlier! From performing with The Beatles to mingling in Andy Warhol's circle, Krisma's story is as fascinating as their music is innovative. So grab a cuppa, settle in, and let us introduce you to your new favourite obscure band. If you enjoy this episode, please consider supporting us on Patreon: https://patreon.com/unsungpod 00:00 Introduction to the Unsung Podcast 00:37 Meet the Hosts and Album Introduction 04:55 Band Background: Chrisma's Origins 12:45 Album Analysis: Chinese Restaurant 13:02 Listener's Insight: Fario Tte's Perspective 15:18 Maurizio's Punk Rock Commitment 17:51 Album Analysis: Hibernation 23:02 Album Analysis: Cathode Mamma 29:20 Technological Innovations and Clandestine Anticipation 36:06 Discovering a Hidden Gem 37:44 The Band's Move to New York 38:26 Exploring the Back Catalog 45:44 The Controversial 2008 Tour 49:52 Why Chinese Restaurant is an Unsung Classic 01:01:02 Final Thoughts and Conclusion Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In part two of our interview Arno Michaelis, we navigate the bizarre intersection of music, ideology, and redemption. If you've ever wondered how extremist movements actually work, this offers some great insight. Arno gives us the inside scoop on how a skinhead band like Centurion shifted 20,000 records whilst still getting royally ripped off by their label boss. We also chat about right wing ideology and symbolism, as Arno discusses how antisemitism serves as what "the connective tissue" that binds seemingly opposing extremist groups together. We delve into the psychological mechanics too. Taking in everything from Norse fantasy to Tolkien, as well as the very large psychological leaps bands like Skrewdriver had to take to justify playing rock n roll music and Jewish cabaret tunes. Arno also talks about how the music of the Beastie Boys was something of a saving grace as he exited the movement, and he tells us about how a MySpace message in the early 00s regarding his former band, Centurion, led him to reckon with the legacy of poison he created. Whilst also giving him the impetus to try to be a force for good in the world. Grab a cuppa and dive in. Highlights: 00:00 Introduction and Conspiracy Culture 00:14 Steve's Transformation and Ideological Shift 00:53 The Neo-Nazi Rally Experience 02:58 Influence of the Church of the Creator 04:50 Disillusionment and Internal Conflicts 10:33 The Music Scene and White Power Bands 19:57 Tattoos and Symbolism in the Movement 26:47 Fantasy, Mythology, and White Nationalism 30:35 Symbolism and Corruption 30:50 The Mystique of Subcultures 31:46 Esoteric Symbols and Internet Mechanics 32:49 Trends in Holocaust Denial 34:12 Healthy Introspection vs. Obfuscation 35:53 Indicators of Radicalisation 41:35 The Role of Martial Arts in Youth Development 50:52 The Impact of Good Coaches and Mentors 53:00 Current Trends in Radicalisation 58:13 Arno's Musical Journey and Final Thoughts Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This week and next we're joined by a very special guest - Arno Michaelis, author, anti-extremism activist, reformed white nationalist and former singer of the neo-Nazi metal band Centurion. You may have seen Arno recently on YouTube where he did a rather brilliant interview with Business Insider. As long time fans of the pod know, Chris' interest in the far-right is something we've touched upon a lot over the last 7 and a half years. So, when the opportunity presented itself to chat with Arno about not just his past, but how music is used a tool for radicalisation, we couldn't pass it up. In true Unsung fashion, our conversation is deep an extensive, taking not just Arno's past and neo-Nazi music, but a broader discussion about the far-right's position in modern mainstream discourse. In part one, we chat about Arno's early interest in punk rock and hip hop, through his transformation from street punk to neo-Nazi skinhead, where he provides a raw, unfiltered account of his journey. Learn about his transformation into an author and advocate for peace, his reflections on the influence of bands like Skrewdriver and Guns N' Roses, and the dangerous allure of conspiracy theories. Along the way, laugh, cringe, and maybe feel a bit enlightened about the intersections of music, hate, and redemption. 00:00 Introduction and Setting the Scene 00:27 Introducing the Special Guest: Arno Michaelis 01:41 Arno's Background and Books 02:35 Parents for Peace: Mission and Work 04:09 Arno's Neo-Nazi Past and Music Career 06:17 The Role of Music in Radicalization 09:37 Arno's Early Life and Punk Influence 15:12 Transition to White Power Skinhead Movement 19:37 Punk Scene Dynamics and Ideological Conflicts 38:07 The Influence of Skrewdriver and Radicalisation 39:56 The Influence of Skrewdriver 41:32 Musical Roots and Personal Reflections 42:46 The Impact of Skrewdriver's Music 43:37 Skrewdriver's Legacy and Controversies 47:16 Personal Connections and Reflections 52:49 The Role of Music in Radicalisation 01:01:46 Antisemitism and Conspiracy Theories 01:13:14 The Enduring Appeal of Conspiracy Theories Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

We've been a bit of a post-hardcore kick this year, so we thought we'd swing to the commercial end of the spectrum and talk about Alexisonfire. Specifically, Mark has chosen their 2022 comeback album 'Otherness' and we have a bit of a barney about it, as Chris and Mark's opinions on the band couldn't be more different. We spend time exploring how this Canadian quintet revolutionised post-hardcore with their three-vocalist approach, and track their evolution from their raw 2002 debut to their thirteen-year recording gap. Mark argues that their latest album is actually their best, while Chris starts off "begging to be hit by a bus" before gradually warming to their more mature sound. Poor old George Pettit (vocals) ranks the band's debut dead last himself, which Chris heartily agrees with. We chat about the Southern Ontario scene that birthed them, the pornstar who (unsuccessfully) tried to sue them over their name, and how their sound evolved over their career. This episode also features a fairly comprehensive look at the band members' various side projects, from Dallas Green's City and Colour (and his random collab with Pink) to Wade McNeil joining Gallows after Frank Carter's departure. Next week we're doing something a bit special - we'll be interviewing Arno Michaelis, former singer of neo-Nazi band Centurion, about music's role in radicalisation. We've been doing loads of prep for this one, and we'll hopefully bring you something thought-provoking. We're also moving to a new underground studio soon (literally underground), so stay tuned for that! Episode Highlights: [02:10] - Teaser for next week's interview with ex-neo-Nazi band Centurion's singer Arno Michaelis [10:00] - Chris confesses he thought Alexisonfire were Scandinavian in some bizarre Mandela effect [11:50] - The story of how Alexisonfire took their name from pornstar Alexis Fire, who then tried to sue them [14:50] - Mark explains how the geography of Southern Ontario created the perfect breeding ground for bands [29:10] - The three-vocalist dynamic that set Alexisonfire apart: Dallas's angelic voice, George's screams, and Wade's "gargling nails" vocals [36:00] - George Pettit ranks the band's self-titled debut dead last in their discography [41:00] - The pivotal role of their 2006 album "Crisis" going Platinum in Canada [50:27] - "I wanted to put the knife in Screamo" - George's controversial statement about moving their sound forward [1:09:00] - The shift to 70s rock influences and the addition of keyboards on "Otherness" [1:30:00] - Chris admits he "started off begging to be hit by a bus" before gradually warming to their later work [1:33:45] - The announcement of our upcoming move to a new underground studio Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This week, we’re talking about Julie Christmas – a woman whose voice could peel paint off the walls one moment and tuck you into bed the next. Known for her work with Made Out of Babies, Battle of Mice, and her collaboration with Cult of Luna on Mariner, Julie’s debut solo album The Bad Wife is our focus here — an underrated little firebomb from 2010 that mixes noise, beauty, and some very sharp edges. We also trace her entire career: from the blood-curdling chaos of Made Out of Babies, to the theatrical collapse of Battle of Mice (complete with a 911 call and possibly a stair-related injury), and finally to Ridiculous and Full of Blood, her triumphant 2024 return. It’s one of those rare episodes where nobody dies, nobody gets sued, and there are no Nazis. Which, if you’re a long-time listener, you’ll know is fairly refreshing. Highlights 00:00 – Cold open and Toast of London chat05:14 – Who is Julie Christmas?10:25 – Vocal Style Breakdown: fragile-to-feral14:45 – Women screaming in heavy bands21:00 – Made Out of Babies discography walk-through36:00 – Battle of Mice and a post-metal relationship collapse41:56 – Mariner – the Cult of Luna collab that actually works44:45 – Ridiculous and Full of Blood (2024)51:30 – Spylcopa, Mouth of the Architect & other collaborations 54:55 – The Bad Wife (2010) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This week, we’re going in the exact opposite direction as last week talking about one of the most quietly revolutionary figures in modern music: Arvo Pärt. That's right, we're pivoting HARD from death metal to neoclassical music. Strap in! We go deep on his early works, his religious conversion, and his shift into the sparse, meditative style known as tintinnabuli. Along the way we discuss how his music achieves emotional intensity through restraint, why he basically disappeared for several years, and how his minimalist compositions have become unlikely mainstays in film and television. Expect talk about Soviet censorship, spiritual longing, and just how hard it is to make music that seems this simple. If you’ve ever cried to Spiegel im Spiegel, you’ll understand. Highlights: 00:00 Introduction and Greetings 01:13 Discussing Radio Show Introductions 02:39 Highbrow Conversations and Wine 03:19 Introducing Arvo Pärt 03:30 Arvo Pärt's Pronunciation and Popularity 05:44 Arvo Pärt's Musical Journey 15:02 Arvo Pärt's Life and Struggles 34:12 Arvo Pärt's Film Scoring and Return to Music 35:30 Tintinnabuli Technique and Influence 44:56 Exploring the Melancholy Beauty of Arvo Pärt's Music 46:04 The Story Behind 'Für Alina' 46:55 The Technique of Tintinnabuli 51:38 Arvo Pärt's Religious Influence 01:03:37 Pärt's Impact on Modern Cinema 01:24:48 Pärt's Music in Palliative Care 01:29:35 Conclusion and Final Thoughts Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.