The Trial Lawyers College Podcast

Public defender and Trial Lawyers College alum Kathleen Shell joins Amanda Harbour and Andrew Delaney to talk about the path that led her from private practice to a career defending people whose lives are often reduced to a case number or a prison ID. Kathleen shares how TLC helped her save an innocent client from a murder prosecution, why she remains deeply committed to representing incarcerated people as individuals, and how the relationships she built through the College have shaped the way she practices and serves. She also reflects on the importance of working groups, mentorship, and the kind of community where lawyers can keep learning, reconnecting, and showing up for one another long after a program ends.

Trial Lawyers College graduate Adam Malone joins Maren Chaloupka to discuss the extraordinary factual, medical, and human challenges involved in representing children and families in birth injury cases. Drawing on a lifetime shaped by his father's pioneering work and decades of his own courtroom experience, Adam explains how the TLC method helps him uncover the deeper story, prepare clients and experts, navigate complex medical evidence, and stay focused on the truth beneath the litigation.

Trial Lawyers College graduates Andrew Mishlove and Bell Island join Maren Chaloupka to explore one of the toughest challenges in trial advocacy: turning complicated forensic science into a story jurors can understand and care about. From contaminated blood samples and unreliable measurements to the rules that give scientific testing meaning, Andrew and Bell explain why simply proving the science is not enough and how the TLC method helps lawyers connect technical evidence to larger themes of trust, fairness, and integrity. Drawing on decades of courtroom experience, they share how storytelling, role reversal, and a willingness to keep learning have transformed the way they challenge government evidence and advocate for their clients.

Arizona trial lawyer Brian Snyder joins Ron Estefan to talk about what brought him to Trial Lawyers College and how programs like Courage to Ask and Trial Skills Foundation changed the way he prepares cases, connects with clients, and tells their stories in the courtroom. Brian shares how learning to become more vulnerable helped him move beyond simply presenting facts and begin communicating the emotional truth of a case through opening statement, direct examination, and voir dire. He also reflects on why even experienced trial lawyers still have more to learn and why he keeps coming back to TLC because, in his words, "the work's not done."

Trial Lawyers College graduate Mart Harris joins Amanda Harber and Andy Delaney to explore how mastering procedure can level the playing field when lawyers take on governments, corporations, and other powerful opponents. From turning guilty verdicts into a mistrial through a careful jury poll to discovering the overlooked story that changed the course of a federal gun case, Mart shares how TLC tools like role reversal, silence, and discovering the story have transformed the way he practices and teaches law. Along the way, Mart and his law clerks Robert Gratzmiller and Jaidyn Spath offer a candid look at mentorship, learning through experience, and building a trial team that speaks the same language.