Jewelry Journey Podcast

What you’ll learn in this episode: How to use Antique Jewelry University to identify maker’s marks and find out when your jewelry was made. Why access to more (and better) information has made interest in antique jewelry explode. What characteristics Suzanne looks for when evaluating antique jewelry. Why buyers should beware of lab-grown diamonds in vintage jewelry. Why modern diamonds and manufacturing techniques can’t compare to the materials and skills used by jewelers in the past. About Suzanne Martinez Suzanne Martinez is the co-owner of Lang Antiques, a San Francisco-based shop that offers the largest collection of fine vintage engagement rings and antique jewels to be found under one roof. She is a highly credentialed senior gemologist, jewelry appraiser, jewelry historian and the curator for Lang’s collection. She actively buys from sellers all over the world. Suzanne is also the founder of Lang’s Antique Jewelry University. Suzanne started collecting rocks and minerals as a child, and by the time she was 13 knew that the jewelry world was her passion. For fun she makes enameled jewelry and studies natural history and Latin American cultural anthropology. Images courtesy of Lang Antique & Estate Jewelry available on TheJewelryJourney.com Additional resources: Website Suzanne’s LinkedIn Instagram Facebook Antique Jewelry University Lang Antique and Estate Jewelry is the prime destination for vintage jewelry lovers, but you don’t have to be in San Francisco to take advantage of the store’s services. Lang ships jewelry globally and offers Antique Jewelry University, a completely free online guide to maker’s marks and jewelry history. Jewelry historian and Lang co-owner Suzanne Martinez joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about how Lang curates its huge collection of antique engagement rings; the history of Antique Jewelry University; and what she looks for when evaluating an antique piece. Read the episode transcript here. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey, exploring the hidden world of art around you. Because every piece of art has a story, and jewelry is no exception. Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the second part of a two-part episode. If you haven't heard part one, please head to TheJewelryJourney.com. Today, we're talking with Suzanne Martinez of Lang Antiques in San Francisco. Welcome back. Do you manufacture yourselves? Does Lang manufacture? Suzanne: We have what we call our Lange line. Sometimes a piece of jewelry will come in and it's worn out. It doesn't have another livelihood, so we can't guarantee it to a customer. I'm talking about a ring in particular. We have, probably for more than 20 years, been making hand-fabricated rings that are in the style of or influenced by a real ring design. They're very similar to the older pieces, and we hand fabricate them. In the last few years, we've had a greater demand. People don't want to pay for the cost of having a ring hand fabricated like the originals. It's very expensive when a mounting costs more than the diamond you're setting in it, and that's not unusual. So, we have done some work with partners that do CAD that have helped us create our designs in CAD, but we do very little of that. 90% of what we do, if we're going to take an old stone and remake a ring out of it, is hand fabricated. We try and stick to the tenets of the old jewelry that we sell. Sharon: Do people come in and say, “Can you repolish this stone?” Maybe they have an old ring, a vintage ring, and the stone is beat up but they want it repolished. Suzanne: That's a really good question. The stones that get beat up are things that are not a diamond. You have to be pretty hard on a diamond to beat it up or to chip it. But sapphires, if they've been worn for 15, 20 years even, they're going to have some abrasions on them. When we buy a piece of jewelry, that’s one of the things we do. We will remove those stones and repolish them before we resell them. But as far as a customer coming in with their own personal collection, we don't have an in-house lapidary, so we don't do that. There are people that specialize in and help people refurbish like that, but it's not something we offer because we don't do it in-house. Sharon: Was your business affected by COVID? Suzanne: It was actually positively affected. I think people had more time. We know they had more time at home, and I think people did a lot more screen time. We had a lot more visitors to our website, and people got very excited about antique jewelry, especially colored stones and things they could wear on a Zoom call so people could see their jewelry, like a pair of earrings or a pendant. Business increased because of that, which was very good. I think the awareness grew. People found out about antique jewelry more. Look at Instagram. Instagram is different than it was three years ago, but there were a lot of people spending a lot of time on Instagram and other social media and just watching, because it's eye candy. People come to our website for the same reason. Who doesn't like to look at beautiful jewelry? I just told this story to a customer that came in yesterday. It just came to mind. We used to keep our jewelry in our window. We used to have probably a thousand pieces in the window, tons of jewelry just packed in. I'd watch people walk by. They'd stop in the window, and then they'd walk away with a big smile on their face because jewelry makes people happy. It's beautiful. I think people gained an appreciation during that time period. Sharon: Did you see an increase in sales because people didn't have things to spend the money on? Suzanne: Well, they weren't traveling. They weren't going out to eat, so they were buying jewelry. We were lucky because part of our business is an e-commerce business, and it's something we've done for a long time. I think some of the jewelers that didn't have that ability to interact with their clients in the same way probably didn't gain from it. But it was good for our business. Sharon: When you had a thousand pieces or a lot of jewelry in the window, did you take it out every night? Suzanne: Oh yeah, every single piece. We had our windows designed so they were modular, so you could take a whole tray of jewelry out and put it on carts and take it to our walls to sell it. We made it work because if you had to take out one at a time, that would take you another couple of hours. Sharon: Do you have local people, people in San Francisco or in Northern California, who come to the store just to look at the window or to look and see what's new? Suzanne: It's really interesting, because when people come into our store, they're either going to have an appointment or we're a destination. They know who we are before they come. They might be coming to see what's new. They might be coming because they have a particular piece of jewelry they want to look at, and sometimes it's just part of their trip to San Francisco. They always come to Lang. Sharon: Do you sell things besides rings, or is it all rings or mostly rings? Suzanne: No, I would say rings are probably half of what we sell, colored stone and diamond rings, then all other kinds of jewelry. People wear brooches still, believe it or not. We sell a lot of pins and brooches. You don't see people wearing them as much, but we're bringing that back. We like them. They're beautiful, small forms of art, you know? Sharon: I was intrigued because you used the word collectors. I looked at the store and it was all rings. As I was scrolling through, it seemed like one on every two pages was something that wasn't a ring. Suzanne: Well, you have to filter, just like any website you're on. We have filters set up so that you can choose how you look at different jewelry. If you want to look at rings, if you want to dive in and just look at sapphire rings, if you want to look at Art Deco sapphire rings, you can do all of those things. You can look at all of our jewelry in one page, which is a few thousand pieces that are online. That's kind of an ominous task. So, filtering is a good way to use our website to find what you're looking for, or just to look. Like I said, it's eye candy. Sharon: How often do you get things that might not be a ring that you would put on the website or people come to the store to see? Suzanne: If you watch our What's New page, you'll see that we sell more things and post more things that are not rings. Rings are maybe 30 to 40% of what we put on our website. There are pendants, earrings, brooches, necklaces, a little bit of everything. Sharon: In reading the description of your store, that it’s world renowned, it seems like you have everything related to vintage engagement rings or vintage rings. Suzanne: That is what we're known for. We have over 800 diamond rings. That's a large collection of vintage diamond rings. We've curated our collection very carefully over the years. People buy from Lang because all of our rings have been fully restored. For example, the prongs are not worn down anymore. We will replace and put new prongs on the ring. If the diamond has a small chip, we remove the diamond and we'll repair the chip before we put it back in. All of our diamonds of one carat or larger, we send to the GIA for a lab report. We do a lot of work to make sure that the ring we're selling has all the necessary information for a customer to make a decision on whether they want to buy it. When you look at an antique diamond, it has a different kind of beauty than a modern round brilliant. Most antique diamonds have a little bit of color to them. They are a J or a K color very commonly, and you have to kind of throw out the standard of the modern round brilliant-cut because you can't compare them. An old diamond has a different way of reacting with light. It breaks the light up into spectral colors more. It's just a playful, beautiful diamond, so it doesn't look like every other round bril

What you’ll learn in this episode: How to use Antique Jewelry University to identify maker’s marks and find out when your jewelry was made. Why access to more (and better) information has made interest in antique jewelry explode. What characteristics Suzanne looks for when evaluating antique jewelry. Why buyers should beware of lab-grown diamonds in vintage jewelry. Why modern diamonds and manufacturing techniques can’t compare to the materials and skills used by jewelers in the past. About Suzanne Martinez Suzanne Martinez is the co-owner of Lang Antiques, a San Francisco-based shop that offers the largest collection of fine vintage engagement rings and antique jewels to be found under one roof. She is a highly credentialed senior gemologist, jewelry appraiser, jewelry historian and the curator for Lang’s collection. She actively buys from sellers all over the world. Suzanne is also the founder of Lang’s Antique Jewelry University. Suzanne started collecting rocks and minerals as a child, and by the time she was 13 knew that the jewelry world was her passion. For fun she makes enameled jewelry and studies natural history and Latin American cultural anthropology. Images courtesy of Lang Antique & Estate Jewelry available on TheJewelryJourney.com Additional resources: Website Suzanne’s LinkedIn Instagram Facebook Antique Jewelry University Lang Antique and Estate Jewelry is the prime destination for vintage jewelry lovers, but you don’t have to be in San Francisco to take advantage of the store’s services. Lang ships jewelry globally and offers Antique Jewelry University, a completely free online guide to maker’s marks and jewelry history. Jewelry historian and Lang co-owner Suzanne Martinez joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about how Lang curates its huge collection of antique engagement rings; the history of Antique Jewelry University; and what she looks for when evaluating an antique piece. Read the episode transcript here. Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the first part of a two-part episode. Please make sure you subscribe so you can hear part two as soon as it's released later this week. Today, we're talking with Suzanne Martinez of Lang Antiques in San Francisco. I should say that's where the brick and mortar is, but they sell all over the world. Lang Antiques is the country's, if not the world's, largest purveyor of vintage engagement rings. They have an unparalleled collection. Suzanne herself is a jewelry historian, among other things. Lang Antiques has developed an online Antique Jewelry University. Researchers from all over the world use this as a resource to research the history of a piece of jewelry. If you're interested in jewelry, then this makes a very good read. I was looking at it last night again, and I didn't have any piece of jewelry in mind, but it was very interesting to read. I’ve heard Suzanne give a talk at ASJRA, another major jewelry organization, and I’ve heard Suzanne give talks identifying a piece of jewelry, and she goes into tremendous detail. There's no way that you could not look at a piece of jewelry and know what you should be looking for. She'll tell us more about Antique Jewelry University. She'll also tell us how over the years, the store has become world renowned. They have done this by developing an unparalleled collection of jewelry, a reputation for professional expertise, and the longevity of this jewelry store. Suzanne, welcome to the program. Suzanne: I'm happy to be here. Good morning. Sharon: Can you tell us where the Lang in Lang Antiques and Estate Jewelry comes from? Suzanne: We bought the store from Jarmilla Lang in 1991. She was the original owner of the store and a jewelry historian herself way before her time. She had worked in Europe in museums, so she had this breadth of knowledge of decorative arts and jewelry that she brought to San Francisco with her when she opened this store. Sharon: Wow. There aren’t any certificates as a jewelry historian. It’s just knowledge, right? Knowledge and other people saying, “Well, you're a jewelry historian.” I presume you're a gemologist also. You look at so many rings. That’s very interesting. What do you say to those who would never buy a piece of jewelry online because they have to feel it and see it and all of that? Suzanne: Like you said, I am a gemologist and I have been for 45 years. Part of the gemological training is learning how to be forensic with what you’re looking at. Whether it's a gemstone or a piece of jewelry, if you are buying from someone who is knowledgeable enough to understand what they're looking at and share that information with you, that gives a huge degree of trust. I think that's one thing that stands out for Lang. We have a really good understanding of whether it’s a real piece of antique jewelry. How is it made? Why is this design important? Who else made this design popular over time and why? We like to give tidbits of history with every piece we sell. I do call myself a jewelry historian, but by no means do I know everything. I have a library. I haven't read every single book in my library. However, if a piece comes in and I look at it, I know which book to look for to find a reference about it. And there are many jewelry historians that I look up to. It's a community. Sharon: If I see a piece of jewelry on your website and I want to know more about it, or I want to know if I can trust this outfit If I don't know it, do I call you or send you the piece? Can you explain the process? Suzanne: If you want to know more about your own piece of jewelry, that's why we have Antique Jewelry University. It's a place where you can do your own research. We have a huge database of hallmarks because one thing that we probably get the most inquiries about is, “Who made this piece of jewelry? Here's the mark I have.” We refer them to this database we have because it's pretty impressive. Auction houses and appraisers and people all over use that database. Every piece of jewelry we have with a maker's mark, we do our best to research it. It’s not always easy. It’s not always possible. Then we photograph it, and we include it on our website. We try and add a little snippet about who the jeweler was, where they were located, and what years they did their manufacturing. You have to match when a piece was made because some there are false marks, too. If a piece of jewelry is marked 585, which is the percentage for 14-karat gold, it was not made in the 19th century. They didn't mark jewelry like that. There is that forensic bit, too. Hopefully we can help people down that path. We call it the jewelry journey. We do. It’s finding out when their jewelry was made. If they want to find out more about a piece of jewelry we have on our website that they might be interested in buying, we invite inquiries. We talk to them over the phone or by email, whatever they're comfortable with, and try and satisfy all their questions about it and add information as well. Sharon: Did you develop the online Antique Jewelry University yourself? Suzanne: When we started our website, that was back in 1998. We were kind of early adapters. There were no e-commerce platforms at that time, so we developed our own e-commerce platform. By the early 2000s, we were actually selling online. When we launched our website, Antique Jewelry University was a 1000-word glossary. I had been collecting terms. Christie Romero was an incredible jewelry historian. She was here in Southern California, and she taught jewelry history. I don't remember which college it was down there, but she would put on symposiums and bring speakers in. Anyway, incredible woman. She started a glossary of terms and a timeline that, when she passed—unfortunately, she's no longer with us—she gifted to Antique Jewelry University. So, between her information and my glossary of terms, we started Antique Jewelry University and just built upon it. Sharon: Do you continue to build upon it if you see a new term or something you haven't included before? Suzanne: Absolutely. We are always researching. We have a woman who does a lot of our writing. Her name is Mary Borchert, and that is her job, just doing research. We have quite a library of reference books, so everything that we put on Antique Jewelry University is fully referenced. We notate that at the bottom of all our articles as well. We're not just copying it from somewhere else on the internet, which a lot of people do, and a lot of people copy Antique Jewelry University. That can be a compliment, but at the same time, we do all of our own work. Sharon: That's impressive, considering how in-depth it is. Just look at it online. Why do you think that the interest in antique jewelry has grown so much in the past few years? Suzanne: I think there's a lot of transparency. A lot of people are able to access information because of the advent of social media. Just think of all the people that are sharing their own personal information. We are on all the different social media channels as well, and I've seen them grow. If you have an interest in a particular type, like Art Nouveau jewelry, you can find Art Nouveau jewelers that have Instagram or Pinterest and look at beautiful jewelry and learn about it. In the past, when I started as a jeweler, if you didn't have a library, there was no place to go. You went to a museum, and that's where you found your information. Now I think it's a rich time for people to access information. I think we also visually see antique and vintage jewelry worn on the red carpet, at the Met Gala, and we see jewelry that is inspired by antique jewelry. You have famous houses. Everybody knows who Cartier is. You have the most beautiful antique Cartier jewelry, and then you have people that have copied it. That's a big tribute, but you don't always know if it’s a Cartier or it isn’t. That's why it's important who you buy it from. But at the same time, it's

What you’ll learn in this episode: Why working with jewelry designers is part business, part therapy. Why the jewelry industry is picking up its pace to match the fashion industry, and why this trend might backfire. Why customer feedback on comfort and wearability is essential for jewelry brands. How Lionel defines success for his jewelry clients. What caused so many fashion houses to develop fine jewelry lines in the last few years, and what this trend means for the industry.  About Lionel Geneste Lionel Geneste is a fashion and luxury industry veteran, having worked for John Hardy, Givenchy, Catherine Malandrino and Randolph Duke in various capacities, from global marketing to communications and merchandising. He is also the founder of the gift-giving service b.Sophisticated. Born in Tehran to French parents, Geneste grew up as a modern nomad: Cairo, Istanbul, Lagos, Beirut, Paris are just a few places he once called home. And so he acquired an eclectic eye, at an early age, for the refined and urbane—only further encouraged by his clotheshorse mother and her like-minded friends. Additional Resources Website Instagram Photos Available on TheJewelryJourney.com Transcript: How does an independent jewelry brand get noticed? For some lucky jewelers, the secret is Lionel Geneste. Lionel is a jewelry strategist and advisor who has launched iconic brands, shown new collections at Paris couture week, and gotten small jewelry artists into top stores. He joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about how the jewelry industry compares to the fashion industry; the trends, opportunities and challenges jewelers are facing today; and how he chooses his clients (and why he has to believe in their work). Read the episode transcript here. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey, exploring the hidden world of art around you. Because every piece of art has a story, and jewelry is no exception. Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the second part of a two-part episode. If you haven't heard part one, please head to TheJewelryJourney.com. Today, I'm talking with Lionel Geneste. He's an independent strategist in the jewelry industry. He does this after 15 years in fashion, so he knows fashion and jewelry. Welcome back. Let’s say people haven't seen the lines of these jewels or the independent jewelers that you represent. Do they say, “Oh, I haven't seen this. I want it for my store”? Lionel: Right. They do that. Everybody has access to everything pretty much now, with Instagram or even stores posting on their websites. I tend to have a collection or a certain number of pieces with me, and then I distribute it amongst the stores I work with. I still give the list of everything I have within the U.S. So, if a client has seen something and it's not within their store, I will send it to them to present to the client. It's very interesting. Once the client knows the brand, they really go for it. They dig into the Instagram to see other pieces. I think you have to be very fluid and flexible, and you have to be able to move around your jewelry if you want to accommodate your plan. Sharon: What are the first things you advise people, your new clients, on? Is it to get involved with social media? Lionel: I know we all hear the stories of people selling off Instagram. I think the brick and mortar is still—at a certain level, we're talking about jewelry. It’s different below $8,000. It's very rare when someone buys it from a website. Even a website like Moda Operandi, for example, if there is a piece— Sharon: Which one? Lionel: Moda Operandi. It's a website that was launched on the idea of doing trunk shows on there. For example, they will very often ask for the piece to be sent so they can show it to their clients. It's rare that they buy it directly off the website. I think for pieces that are $500 to $2,000, maybe $3,000, but above a certain price, the clients want to see it, feel it. Sharon: And touch it. When you look for new clients, what do you look for? What would you consider new? Would you consider if the way they make it is new? Lionel: There are there a few things. If I take them, for example, Mike Joseph is very interesting. He has great technique. The jewelry is going to be well made. He made this entire collection of flowers in titanium, but he used the reverse side of titanium to have it as a matte finish, as opposed to a very glossy one. I think with this collection, when he was at couture, he won two prizes. So, I think he is both innovative and has great technique. Vishal, I like his take on traditional Indian jewelry, which has a lot of gold and stones, but he makes it much more sleek. The thing is not to see the metal. I don’t know if you’re familiar with the portrait cut. Sharon: No, I’m not. Lionel: The portrait cut is a slab of diamond. It's the Maharaja who built the Taj Mahal who actually asked his jeweler to do this type of slab of diamonds to put on top of their portraits so it would bring a shine to the miniature. So, it's a technique, and Vishal does rings and earrings. I think that's an interesting new way. I'm always looking for people who bring something new to the table. Sharon: You mentioned the perspective. How could their perspective be new? When you talk to other art jewelers, sometimes you look at a piece and it looks normal, then they tell you the stories behind it and you understand it better. Lionel: True. You can always try to understand the story. When you see Vishal make some of these pieces, I think you almost don't need the explanation. You see that there is something new there. I'm not saying it's wrong to try to have the story behind it, but I kind of like when—I’ve had numerous jewelers come in. They're coming to me and showing me things, and the thing I hear the most is, “I couldn't find this on the market.” And I look at the pieces, and I'm like, “I can bring you in 10 stores when there's exactly the same thing.” And I think, “No.” Sharon: So it's their technique with the materials they use. Lionel: The technique, the material, the inspiration. With Vishal it’s the reinterpretation of traditional Indian jewelry, but it's still very modern and light. Sylvie has more inspiration from literature or drawings. She goes to museums to find her inspiration. Sharon: I was just thinking, do you represent people who are goldsmiths themselves making the jewelry, as opposed to them designing it and they have a goldsmith make it? Lionel: Mike and Vishal have their own factories, so they are really following from the beginning, from the start. Sylvie has an atelier. She draws. Sharon: Were you a maker of jewelry? Lionel: No. Never. I’ve always liked jewelry, but I was never a jewelry maker. Sharon: Have you learned over the years how something is made? Lionel: Yes. I've learned more about the stones. I’ve learned more about the techniques. It's important to sell something, as you said earlier, to bring the most information. People are really curious today about how it’s made and the story behind it. Sharon: No matter who your client is, are they interested in the way it's made? Do they ask you questions? Lionel: There are different profiles. People who just respond to the look of it are not curious, and it depends on the jewelry itself. With Vishal, because of this new way and this new cut of diamond, people are asking. It's always interesting to get the background on it because there is a new historical background. Mike, for example, with his flowers connection, people were really intrigued by the use of titanium and how it was not used traditionally. So, yes, you get questions on that. Sharon: How often do you see something new that you haven't seen before? Is it once a year? Lionel: It's rare, actually, when you see people who are bringing something really new, a new proposal. Some people are doing stuff in a great way. Not everything has to be groundbreaking, and I get that. I go to couture every year, so I kind of scout, but just for myself. I like to see what's going on. That's not where I'm going to have a new client or anything. It's interesting to me to see what's new. Sometimes I see someone, and I refer them to all the stores, saying, “You should go and see that brand. It’s really cool. It's new.” Sharon: Do you advise a store to go look at the different jewelry? Lionel: Yeah, I would, even if I don’t work with them. I think stores appreciate that I do that. I think the one thing I'm known for is taking on brands that are different and unique. When I point out someone that I think is great, they will listen. Sharon: Do you only work with people who work in gold or emeralds? You mentioned John Hardy. He only works in silver. Lionel: No. For John Hardy, I went for the one-of-a-kind collection that was very stone oriented. No, I don't. The next big thing I did, I worked with Hearts on Fire, which was kind of relaunching and just hired a new designer. That was very interesting, to work with a big company. The idea of bringing this new designer on and kind of starting from scratch was an interesting thing. We worked on opening different stores and more classic, more bridal. That was an interesting strategy to implement. Sharon: Did you advise them of a designer or did you walk in and they introduced you to a new designer? Lionel: They already had the designer in mind, so we looked at the collection. They asked me about their archive and what I thought they should bring back on. I think my background with fashion and jewelry always interests people because they know I still have a foot in the fashion industry in a way. Sharon: If somebody is in the fashion industry now, can they segue?  How can they segue to doing what you're doing if they got tired of fashion? Lionel: I think I know people who did the transition from fashion to jewelry. In the end, it’s the same actors. In the press and the stores, it's the same people, except for the jewelry stores. But if you talk

What you’ll learn in this episode: Why working with jewelry designers is part business, part therapy. Why the jewelry industry is picking up its pace to match the fashion industry, and why this trend might backfire. Why customer feedback on comfort and wearability is essential for jewelry brands. How Lionel defines success for his jewelry clients. What caused so many fashion houses to develop fine jewelry lines in the last few years, and what this trend means for the industry.  About Lionel Geneste Lionel Geneste is a fashion and luxury industry veteran, having worked for John Hardy, Givenchy, Catherine Malandrino and Randolph Duke in various capacities, from global marketing to communications and merchandising. He is also the founder of the gift-giving service b.Sophisticated. Born in Tehran to French parents, Geneste grew up as a modern nomad: Cairo, Istanbul, Lagos, Beirut, Paris are just a few places he once called home. And so he acquired an eclectic eye, at an early age, for the refined and urbane—only further encouraged by his clotheshorse mother and her like-minded friends. Additional Resources Website Instagram     Photos Available on TheJewelryJourney.com Transcript: How does an independent jewelry brand get noticed? For some lucky jewelers, the secret is Lionel Geneste. Lionel is a jewelry strategist and advisor who has launched iconic brands, shown new collections at Paris couture week, and gotten small jewelry artists into top stores. He joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about how the jewelry industry compares to the fashion industry; the trends, opportunities and challenges jewelers are facing today; and how he chooses his clients (and why he has to believe in their work). Read the episode transcript here. Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey podcast. This is the first part of a two-part episode. Please make sure you subscribe so you can hear part two as soon as it's released later this week. Today, I'm talking with Lionel Geneste. He's an independent strategist in the jewelry industry. He does this after 15 years in fashion, so he knows fashion and jewelry. He's multi-lingual, and he represents many people abroad in the U.S., which is very, very unusual. In fact, I met him through an independent jeweler, and I thought he had such an interesting background I wanted to talk to him more. Lionel, welcome to the program. Lionel: Sharon, good morning. Thank you for having me. Sharon: I'm really glad to have you. How did you come into this business? Lionel: Well, I was in the fashion industry, then a friend of mine was taking over John Hardy. We're talking about 2006 or 2007. They were launching a one-of-a-kind collection, and they brought me on board to launch that collection and to develop it and then basically to do all the PR for John Hardy in general. Sharon: I'm not familiar with John Hardy. Is it fashion? Go ahead. Lionel: John Hardy is this company that does mostly silver. They're based in Bali. All their ateliers are in Bali and they have a big office in New York. John Hardy himself wanted to do a collection for his wife, which would be only one of a kind. That’s when we started that collection called Cinta, which means love in Balinese. People were noticing these rings, and the people from Neiman Marcus noticed them and asked if we could develop them into a full collection, which we did. I’d been more in fashion, in the couture world, and I thought I could do something. Basically, the ladies that were willing to wait for four months for a dress are also willing to have one-of-a-kind jewelry or even preorder them. Sharon: You know, when you tell me who it is, I remember who John Hardy is, but I haven't seen his jewelry for a while. It's around. So, those are your clients? Are they mostly women? Do you represent any men? Lionel: Yeah. These were the clients. The idea at the beginning, when I developed it, is I would do dinners in Paris during the couture shows, and we would present the jewelry. That was pretty much how it all started. If you look at it now, all the jewelry houses are doing presentations during the couture shows. A couple of weeks ago it was in Paris and everybody from Boucheron, Dior etc., presented their collection.  It’s on the same calendar. From then on, when I left John Hardy, I started a company with a business partner. The idea was that we were giving our clients not only the PR aspect and marketing, but also the business, because I was well versed in the business side as well. It was a kind of a one stop shop. Sharon: I'm not familiar with the couture shows. Does the jewelry have a separate presentation? Lionel: Yeah. The couture shows, it’s like when the houses like Valentino, Dior, Chanel, it’s all their shows that are only one of a kind. There are very strict rules that are enacted by the Chambre de Commerce in Paris. You have to have a number of atelier, you have to have a number of people working in the atelier, it's all handmade, etc. There was a parallel with the ladies buying those clothes that are much more expensive than ready to wear and the jewelry industry, and I think everybody made the same link between those. Now, these shows are every year in January and July. The houses like Boucheron, Chanel, Chaumet, all of them hold presentations and invite the press, but also invite clients at the same time. Sharon: So, they show their most expensive jewelry. Lionel: Yes. It’s really the high jewelry collections that are shown there. Sharon: Is there somebody showing them, presenting them, or is it just come and look and see? Lionel: No, they are usually elaborate with more and more, actually. Everything is an experience. More and more they're doing elaborate dinners. For example, Boucheron at the Place Vendôme has dedicated the last floor to a big dining room, and there's also a suite. The best clients can come stay at Boucheron and stay in the building. The view on Place Vendôme is beautiful. So, now it's more a presentation with the designer himself or herself inviting their best customer, or hoping to get the best customer. Sharon: Do you invite these customers? Lionel: I used to do that a lot. I haven't done it in a year. Usually, I work with younger designers or independent and smaller designers, so I don't have the same budget. But usually what I do is I find a new, typical French bistro. I used to do it the night before the shows to make it something very informal, but still presenting the collection in a different format. Sharon: Is that how people found you? They come to these dinners? Lionel: When we talk about clients, there are two different kinds of clients. There are my clients who are the jewelers that I represent, and then I'm talking about clients who are the people who buy the jewelry. Basically, it's word of mouth. When I work with jewelers, some stores recommend me to other brands. Some clients know about someone who's launching a new brand and they refer me. That's really where I enter the competition. I make a proposal, and it’s more about that and referrals. Sharon: Do you advise the high-end buyers of jewelry? Do you advise them? You say you have two kinds of clients. Lionel: Yeah, I have some clients that are collectors. Not everyone is always looking for newness or paying attention to that. So, yes, I do advise them on what I think is a young designer that’s upcoming, and if they're serious about their collection, I think they should have a piece of that person in their collection. I launched Emmanuel Tarpin, for example, and at the time everybody wanted his earrings to be part of their collection. Sharon: Who did you say? Lionel: Emmanuel Tarpin. He's been having a lot of press lately. He's launched a collection of orchids. I don't work with them anymore, but I launched him at the beginning. Sharon: Do you have to like the people that you work with? Lionel: Absolutely. I do have to like the product. I couldn't sell something that I don't believe in. Sharon: Do you ever work with men? Do they come to you for advice? Lionel: They do. However, I find most men—no, I do, actually. I have some men that come, or they are strongly recommended by their wives. A lot of my clients are women who buy for themselves. Sharon: Okay, so they find out about you through word of mouth, or do you advertise? Lionel: But also, I do work with stores. Some of my jewelers are in stores such as Just One Eye in Los Angeles, Cayen in Carmel, Mayfair Rocks in East Hampton. I choose strategically the partnerships and in places where I know we're going to find the right client. Sharon: I bet your clients, they’re abroad and you represent them in the states. Lionel: Yes. Some of them I represent worldwide. I represent them also in Europe, in London and Paris.  At the moment for my clients, I work with Sylvie Corbelin. That's how we met, you and I. Sylvie is based in Paris. I work with a brand that’s new-ish called Mike Joseph, and it was a big success at couture last year. He is based in Bangkok. Then I represent Vishal Anil Kothari, who is based in Mumbai. It's kind of a take on traditional Indian jewelry but with a much lighter frame. They use portrait-cut diamonds, emeralds. Sharon: Do people find out about you? It seems like everybody is not finding out about you through shows or their friends. Lionel: You know, friends, clients, stores, owners. They see how I work with them and recommend me to other people. I have younger friends in the industry that just started their business and ask me for advice. They recommend me or hire me. Sharon: You travel a lot because you have addresses in New York, L.A., Paris. Lionel: I was based in New York for 20 years. I moved to L.A. six years ago. I still go to New York quite often. Sharon: But you were born in Paris or in France? Lionel: I'm French. My parents traveled a lot, so I was born a bit by accident in Tehran, in Iran. But I'm French. I studied in France. Sharon: Do you feel stretched? Whe

What you’ll learn in this episode: What to expect at the second Lisbon Contemporary Jewelry Biennial and tips for attending. How Portugal’s 48-year authoritarian regime and the Carnation Revolution continue to influence Portuguese artists and jewelers today. Why jewelry is so closely linked to power and politics. How artists can use masterclasses and workshops to refocus their work. How Marta is working to promote Portugal’s art jewelry scene.   About Marta Costa Reis Marta Costa Reis started studying jewelry in 2004, as a hobby, in parallel with other professional activities. She dedicated herself fully to this work in 2014. Costa Reis completed the jewelry course at Ar.Co – Centro de Arte e Comunicacção Visual, in Lisbon, and the Advanced Visual Arts Course at the same school, in addition to workshops with renowned teachers including Iris Eichenberg, Ruudt Peters, Lisa Walker, and Eija Mustonen, among others. In addition to being a jewelry artist, Costa Reis teaches jewelry history at Ar.Co, writes about jewelry, and curates exhibitions. She also serves as artistic director of the Lisbon Contemporary Jewelry Biennial and as a board member of Art Jewelry Forum. Additional Resources: Marta’s Website Marta’s Instagram   Photos Available on TheJewelryJourney.com Transcript: How does jewelry symbolize power, and where do jewelry and politics intersect? That’s the central question that Marta Costa Reis and her fellow curators, artists and speakers will explore at this year’s Lisbon Contemporary Jewelry Biennial. Marta joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about why this year’s theme is so timely; how Portugal’s turbulent political history influences jewelry today; and how to plan your trip to make the most of the biennial. Read the episode transcript here. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey, exploring the hidden world of art around you. Because every piece of art has a story, and jewelry is no exception.   Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the second part of a two-part episode. If you haven't heard part one, please head to TheJewelryJourney.com. Today, we're going to be talking about the Lisbon Contemporary Jewelry Biennial. I am talking with Marta Costa Reis, who is going to tell us all about it. Welcome back.   Sharon: Are you a maker?   Marta: I am a maker.   Sharon: Have you been developing jewelry that's linked to power?   Marta: Actually, not so much. My themes are a bit more, maybe spiritual is the word. I don't know. I'm interested in themes that revolve around time and our connection to time and what is behind us. It's quite different, but this was already the theme of the first biennial. We have to move on and have different themes. Of course, I couldn't do work myself for this biennial. I don't have the time or the mindset to be making at this time. I'm fully focused on the biennial.   Sharon: I was noticing you have several curators. How did you choose the curators of different seminars and exhibits? How did you choose them?   Marta: I can speak, for instance, about the main show that is called Madrugada, daybreak. The main title. I wanted someone that was not a Portuguese person so we don't stay too closed in our own bubble. I wanted someone from another country but who could understand what happened here. Mònica Gaspar is Spanish. Besides being an amazing intellectual and teacher and writer and very knowledgeable about jewelry and design, being Spanish, they had a similar process as ours. They also had a very long dictatorship, and at almost the same time as we did, they became a democracy. So, she could understand more or less the same events. That was important, to have someone with that experience of changing from the dictatorship into a democracy.    We spoke last year Schmuck in Munich about it, and she was interested, but she has a lot of work, so it took a little while to convince her. It's because we are a team and we can share the work that were able to do it and Mònica is able to do it. Patrícia Domingues is the other curator. She's Portuguese, but she's younger than we are.   Sharon: Who is that?   Marta: Patrícia Domingues. She recently had a show in Brooklyn. I can write it down for you later, maybe afterwards.   Sharon: Okay. Patrícia. How do you spell the last name?   Marta: Domingues, D-O-M-I-N-G-U-E-S. I think I got it right. I know how to spell it, but sometimes saying it in English is more difficult. She has been living abroad for a quite a long time, but she's Portuguese, so she has a perspective that is both an insider but also an outsider. I wanted that very much, someone that is not closed here in our little bubble. She's she recently finished a Ph.D. She's younger. She's very much in contact with everything that is being reflected about jewelry in the world right now.    I think they are amazing curators, and they bring a lot to the biennial and to the show. I am there as well not only because I enjoy it, but I wanted to help out with the work, sending the invitations and keeping track of everything so that everything goes smoothly. We are a very small organization, and we do a lot of it ourselves on a voluntary basis. We have to take different jobs in this process. But I'm happy they joined us, and I'm very happy to be working with them on this show.   Sharon: Are you the main curator? Is there a main curator who chose the other ones?   Marta: Yes, that is me. I am the main curator for the whole biennial. Then there is a team and we discuss. We basically invited Mònica and Patrícia and they agreed. The other shows, for instance, the tiara show is curated by Catarina Silva, who is also the head of the jewelry department at ARCO. I'm also taking care of, it's called Jewels for Democracy. That's the show that I mentioned about the women being honored. There's a lot of people involved, but it's quite smooth.   Sharon: Somebody has to keep everything moving and coordinate. How are you promoting the show in Portugal and in general? Anything?   Marta: We will start promoting now. We have the two shows in April. We did the launch last November for the whole biennial. We try to be active on Instagram. Not so much on Facebook, but mainly on Instagram. We will start a more intense campaign. We have a professional communications person that will take care of this. We will start a more intense communication campaign very soon. We have it in two parts, so we are focusing on April. Then we'll have the other show in May, and then it's the end of June. It will be in different parts.    We will also announce the masterclasses very soon. I haven't mentioned the masterclasses yet. That's what I was forgetting. There will be two masterclasses, one with Lin Cheung and one with Manuel Vilhena from the 22nd to 26th of June. We'll open the registrations very, very soon. This week we'll open the registration. You'll start seeing more about it, and we will promote it in different venues. I did an interview for SMCK Magazine, the European magazine about jewelry. It just came out in their last issue. I did it in October or at the end of September, but it just came out. So, we're doing a number of things, but it will become more intense at the end of this month, in February. We will reinforce the communication and the advertising.    Sharon: How long are the shows in the biennial? Does it go through the summer, or is there an ending point or beginning point?   Marta: The main thing is that in the last week of June, everything will be open. The shows in the Royal Treasure Museum, the shows at the Design Museum, the colloquium, the schools, the masterclasses, the students, the galleries. Everything will be open in that last week of June. That will be the right moment to come to Lisbon. That's when we are concentrating everything. On the 30th of June, the two shows at the Royal Treasure Museum will close, but the show at MUDE, the Design Museum, will continue until the end of September, so it will go through the summer.   Sharon: Why do you call it a masterclass? Who's teaching it and what are they teaching?   Marta: It's Lin Cheung. She's from the UK. Manuel Vilhena is a quite well-known Portuguese artist and amazing teacher as well. It's five days. I'm not sure how to differentiate between a workshop and a masterclass, which I guess is a workshop with the masters, and they are masters. They are some of the top teachers I know. I did a small course with Manuel Vilhena a few years ago. Not yet with Lin, but I know they are amazing teachers. I'm sure everyone who comes will enjoy it.    Last biennial, we also had masterclasses, one with Caroline Broadhead and the other with Christoph Zellweger. They are very interesting moments of sharing and learning and deepening your understanding of your own work, not just for students but for artists in every moment of their careers. It's super interesting to be able to have these few days to stop and look at what you do, what you want to do next with very good teachers like they are. This can be a very special moment. For a long time, I did as many workshops and masterclasses as I could, and it was so great.   Sharon: The people who teach the classes, do they vet the people coming, or can anybody who wants to come into the class and take it?   Marta: There is a small vetting process, but basically you send a CV and your motivation, not even a letter, but a few words of why you want to do these classes. That will be the vetting process. But it's pretty much open to everyone in every stage of their education or career.   Sharon: The exhibits and going to galleries, are there charges? Are they free? What is the story with that?   Marta: To visit the galleries, some of the venues will be free. The museums have tickets, but most of the venues that are not museums are free.   Sharon: MUDE is the design museum that just opened.   Marta: Yes. It opened a while ago, but it was under renovation for a long time. It's the only museum in

What you’ll learn in this episode: What to expect at the second Lisbon Contemporary Jewelry Biennial and tips for attending. How Portugal’s 48-year authoritarian regime and the Carnation Revolution continue to influence Portuguese artists and jewelers today. Why jewelry is so closely linked to power and politics. How artists can use masterclasses and workshops to refocus their work. How Marta is working to promote Portugal’s art jewelry scene.   About Marta Costa Reis Marta Costa Reis started studying jewelry in 2004, as a hobby, in parallel with other professional activities. She dedicated herself fully to this work in 2014. Costa Reis completed the jewelry course at Ar.Co – Centro de Arte e Comunicacção Visual, in Lisbon, and the Advanced Visual Arts Course at the same school, in addition to workshops with renowned teachers including Iris Eichenberg, Ruudt Peters, Lisa Walker, and Eija Mustonen, among others. In addition to being a jewelry artist, Costa Reis teaches jewelry history at Ar.Co, writes about jewelry, and curates exhibitions. She also serves as artistic director of the Lisbon Contemporary Jewelry Biennial and as a board member of Art Jewelry Forum. Additional Resources: Marta’s Website Marta’s Instagram   Photos Available on TheJewelryJourney.com Transcript: How does jewelry symbolize power, and where do jewelry and politics intersect? That’s the central question that Marta Costa Reis and her fellow curators, artists and speakers will explore at this year’s Lisbon Contemporary Jewelry Biennial. Marta joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about why this year’s theme is so timely; how Portugal’s turbulent political history influences jewelry today; and how to plan your trip to make the most of the biennial. Read the episode transcript here. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey, exploring the hidden world of art around you. Because every piece of art has a story, and jewelry is no exception. Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey podcast. This is the first part of a two-part episode. Please make sure you subscribe so you can hear part two as soon as it's released later this week. Today, we're going to be talking about the Lisbon Contemporary Jewelry Biennial. I am talking with Marta Costa Reis, who is going to tell us all about it. I met Marta about eight to 5 years ago at the first biennial in Lisbon, Portugal. One of the goals was to gather together examples and information about the history of modern Portugal and the jewelry that's associated with it. When we think of Portuguese jewelry, we don't automatically think of art jewelry. But it has a history of more than several decades about the work that's been going on and art jewelry in general. The second Lisbon Contemporary Jewelry Biennial is coming up this summer in Lisbon. The last one was held in Lisbon, too. Marta Costa Rice is going to be telling us about this biennial and what to expect this summer in Lisbon. There will be a lot going on in many venues. There is the exhibition at MUDE, which is a very well-known Portuguese design museum. There's an international symposium with people coming from all over the world to discuss the theme of the exhibition, which I'll let Marta tell you about. A lot is taking place at many of the galleries. One of the key exhibits is taking place at the Royal Treasure Museum. But I don't want to steal Marta's spotlight. Today, she'll tell us all about the second Contemporary Jewelry Biennial in Portugal. Marta, welcome to the program. Marta: Thank you so much. Thank you for having me and for this very nice introduction. So, where should I start? I don't even know. There's so much to tell. I'm currently organizing the second Lisbon Contemporary Jewelry Biennial. I do it as a new chairwoman of PIN, which is a Portuguese contemporary jewelry association. Sharon: PIN, P-I-N? Marta: PIN, yes. PIN has existed now for 20 years. It will be 20 years this September. It was created to organize quite a big event. At the time, Cristina Filipe was one of the founders and was the chairwoman for a very long time. Of course, you know her by the Susan Beach Grant. She received the first Susan Beech Grant for Mid-Career Artists, and that allowed us to publish a book which came from Cristina's Ph.D. about Portuguese jewelry, contemporary jewelry in Portugal. That time, when the book was published, that's when she had traveled to Portugal and we met. We had this challenge for ourselves, saying that if we managed to do a good program to present interesting shows, good visits, we could be able to do a biennial. That's its inspiration, this trip, how all this came to happen. Of course, the timing for the first biennial—we called it the AJF trip. It was like year zero, the pilot episode. The first biennial happened in the middle of the pandemic, so we were never sure that we really would be able to make it happen because there was still a lot of restrictions. But luckily it happened in September 2021, when people were able to travel a little bit. Then we managed to have a huge number of artists and collectors and interesting people. The theme was about the pandemic. It was jewelry of protection and connecting contemporary objects, contemporary jewelry of protection in the 21st century with very old relics and sacred objects that were shown together in an exhibition in a museum here in Lisbon. Of course, we did call it the biennial to force ourselves to do the second one. Sharon: I wanted to ask, what does biennial mean, literally? Marta: It's supposed to be every two years. That that's what it means. It's supposed to happen every two years. Of course, it's a little bit more than two years now. It's two years and a half between the first one and the second one. But because we have this idea to always have as a theme for the biennial something that is happening in the world at the moment. The first one was the pandemic. Now in Portugal 2024, we will have this very important event, which is the 50th anniversary of our revolution when we became a democratic country. I don't know if people are aware that we had an authoritarian regime for 48 years, and it happened in 1974. It was a very smooth revolution. Let's just say that, because it happened without almost any gun being shot. Of course, it took a little while. The Democratic constitution was approved a bit later, but that is the fundamental moment when we became a democratic country or started to become a democratic country. It happened 50 years ago now, so it's really a whole new generation, a whole new world, and we want to celebrate that. Jewelry, of course, has a lot to do with power or representations of power. There is also in contemporary jewelry a lot of political work. Many artists do work that is political or can be read in a political way. We wanted to consider those issues, jewelry of power and political jewelry. That's basically the idea of how it came about. Sharon: Why is it called the Carnation Revolution? Marta: That's an amazing story, actually. It happened because literally a woman that had some red carnations in her hands started to put carnations, the flowers, in the guns of the soldiers. Some of the most famous images of the revolution are soldiers with the flowers in their guns. It represents a lot of things, namely that the guns were not being shot. They were holding flowers. It happened by accident. It's suggested that this lady, apparently one of the soldiers asked her for a cigarette. She said she didn't have cigarettes, but she had a flower, and she put the flower in his gun. And then people started to replicate the gesture. Until today, the red carnation--there were also white carnations, but basically the red carnation is still very much a symbol of that movement, that revolution, and it took the name. For us, thinking about that, the gesture she had is also very much a gesture of adornment, the gesture of adorning that gun with the flower. So, we wanted to pick up on that and what it could mean. Sharon: How is jewelry linked to power? Marta: You have that example, for instance, in the Royal Treasure Museum that you mentioned, which shows the jewelry of the national treasure, jewels that belonged to the state—well, to the crown, basically. Some of them were private jewelry worn by kings and queens. Some of them are more royal estate jewelry. Basically, it's that representation of the power that it can show and the time when diamonds and precious stones and even precious metals were not used by everyone. It showed how powerful a person was, how important or how close to the eye of power. It's the idea of a crown or a tiara, of a whole set of diamonds, but also all the objects that you can put on your body, like the jeweled swords and things like that. Jewelry indeed has a lot to say about power, how you show yourself as a person of power or representing a situation of power, being a king or queen or someone with a very high responsibility. That connection always existed. This museum is brand new. It will be two years ago in June. This jewelry was not accessible. It was not shown for a very long time. It was only in a temporary exhibition, so it's an excellent opportunity to see these pieces that are absolutely incredible. Although many were lost and sold, they're still a very nice collection. Sharon: So, a biennial can be anything, theoretically. Every 10 years, it could be trucks. It could be jewelry, but it could be a biennial about anything, right? Marta: We tried to connect it to things that are ongoing in the world at the moment. For 2024, our main motivation with this event was that we knew it would happen in Portugal. There will be a lot of other moments of celebration of democracy, basically. That that's what the celebration is all about. But if you look at the world at large, it's also very topical, this issue and the themes. It's something that people can relate to at the present moment, not just Portuguese. That's what we tho

\   Transcript: Auctions, appraisals, and the professionals who perform them are some of the most misunderstood elements of the jewelry industry. That’s exactly why Gina D’Onofrio, independent appraiser and Co-Director of Fine Jewelry at Heritage Auctions, joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast. She discussed what a consigner can expect when selling jewelry with an auction house; how appraisers come up with values (and why they might change); and how consumers can protect themselves by asking their appraiser the right questions. Read the episode transcript here. What you’ll learn in this episode: What questions to ask appraisers and auction houses before selling your jewelry. What education and networking opportunities an aspiring appraiser should seek out. Why an appraisal includes multiple values, and why those values will change depending on the reason for the appraisal. What the process of selling jewelry with an auction house is like, and why you might choose an auction house over selling online or to a store. What a qualified appraiser will look for while inspecting a piece of jewelry.   About Gina D'Onofrio With work in the retail, auction and manufacturing sectors of the jewelry industry since 1989, Gina D'Onofrio's experience encompasses jewelry design and production, appraisals, buying and selling of contemporary, antique and period jewelry, sales and management. Gina operates an independent gemological laboratory, appraisal service and consulting firm and has been catering to private individuals, banks, trusts, non-profit organizations, insurance companies, legal firms and the jewelry trade in the greater Los Angeles area. Gina received her Master Gemologist Appraiser® designation, upon completion of appraisal studies, written and practical examinations and peer appraisal report review with the American Society of Appraisers. In addition, she was awarded the Certified Master Appraiser designation with the National Association of Jewelry Appraisers. In 2013 Gina received Los Angeles Magazine's coveted "Best in LA" award for her Jewelry Appraisal Services. She conducts presentations and entertaining speeches about appraisal and jewelry related topics to private and corporate groups in Los Angeles and throughout the USA.   Photos Available on TheJewelryJourney.com Additional Resources: Website Instagram Facebook Email   Transcript: Auctions, appraisals, and the professionals who perform them are some of the most misunderstood elements of the jewelry industry. That’s exactly why Gina D’Onofrio, independent appraiser and Co-Director of Fine Jewelry at Heritage Auctions, joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast. She discussed what a consigner can expect when selling jewelry with an auction house; how appraisers come up with values (and why they might change); and how consumers can protect themselves by asking their appraiser the right questions. Read the episode transcript here. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey, exploring the hidden world of art around you. Because every piece of art has a story, and jewelry is no exception.   Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the second part of a two-part episode. If you haven't heard part one, please head to TheJewelryJourney.com.    Today, I am glad to welcome back Gina D'Onofrio, an appraiser who just returned from being an independent appraiser. She returned to the auction house Heritage as co-director of jewelry. She was also on the podcast in the very beginning, and it's good to have her on again. Welcome back.   If you become a certain kind of appraiser, let's say real estate or antique jewelry or I'll call it regular jewelry, how do you continue your education in those areas? What do you do if you're a real estate appraiser and you want to be an expert, or an antique expert? What would you do to continue education in that area?   Gina: You mentioned real estate. So, you mean you're appraising houses and all of a sudden you want to appraise antique jewelry?   Sharon: No, if you're in a particular area, is what I mean. You work in jewelry. What do you do to further your education besides going to the conferences, handling the jewelry? Are there other things you can do to further your education in those areas? In that area, I should say.   Gina: If you're working in jewelry, you're basically filling all the educational holes that you might have. When you say you work in jewelry, if you work for a contemporary jeweler, then you need to have more exposure to vintage jewelry. If it's vice versa, maybe you're working with antique and estate jewelry and you're not as exposed to what present day Tiffany and Company and Cartier and Van Cleef & Arpels are doing, then you have to self-educate and gain more exposure to that kind of jewelry. As a jewelry appraiser, anything can cross your desk. Quite often, I might receive a collection that belongs to somebody, and she may have something that she bought last week and she may have something that her great-grandmother owned and she has inherited. You need to be able to recognize and evaluate and appraise both pieces. So, you do need a very well-rounded education.   Sharon: You raised the point of Cartier and David Webb and the high-end pieces that designers make, but not everything you see is going to be that. As you said, there's the piece that the grandmother passes down. Heritage, I presume, isn't all Cartier. What do you do then? What do you do if a piece comes across your desk and it's not a Cartier or it's not a David Webb? Do you look at a David Webb as the benchmark and then go from there?   Gina: No, you don't, because a piece that has no stamp or signature doesn't necessarily mean that it's not a fine piece. That's where having an understanding of jewelry manufacturing is critical. You do need to gain an education on how a piece of jewelry is made. GIA is teaching a class called jewelry forensics. In that class, they teach appraisers and other members of the industry how to look at a piece and recognize how it was fabricated. Was it made entirely by hand? Was it made by carving a wax and casting it? Was it made via CAD/CAM design and 3D printing? Was made by using a die struck method? These are all different methods of producing a piece of jewelry, and as an appraiser you need to have an education in that so when you're holding that piece of jewelry in your hand, A) you recognize how it was made, and B) you recognize the quality of the workmanship. That plays into the value of the piece.    For example, you might have a piece of jewelry, and you recognize that it was made entirely by hand. A great deal of time and effort has gone into making it, and the workmanship is excellent. Flawless, in fact. That is going to inform you as to what it would cost to replace that piece if your client wants to insure it for another piece that has been made entirely by hand.    Or, you might look at a piece that is mass produced using CAD/CAM and 3D printing, but it's a piece that's not finished very well. It's poorly made, and the setting work is very poor, too. In fact, some of the stones are a little bit loose because they weren't set properly, or perhaps they're not straight in the piece. That's going to tell you that it's a mass-produced piece. If it's not signed, you're going to be looking at other mass-produced pieces of the same type of lower quality in order to determine what it would cost to replace that piece. Understanding production is really important.   Sharon: Can you be an appraiser without having this background of manufacturing and that sort of thing? Could you be an appraiser?   Gina: You can. I'm really sad to say that there is no licensing of jewelry appraisers. There is no regulation, no government regulation. We self-regulate. That's why if you want to become a professional appraiser and you want to be the best appraiser you can be, you should join an organization that gives you excellent education and network with other very experienced appraisers who can help guide you in the right direction to get the education that you need.    Unfortunately, anybody can appraise jewelry and nobody can stop you. As a consumer, it's best to look for an appraiser that has reached the highest level they can possibly attain within an appraisal organization that requires their members to requalify every five years. The International Society of Appraisers has a requalification program. So does the American Society of Appraisers. They do require their members to requalify every five years. Then you have the National Association of Jewelry Appraisers that have different strata of membership, different tiers of membership, so look for an appraiser within that organization that has successfully completed the Certified Master Appraiser program, the CMA, and at the very least is a certified appraiser. Someone who has sat for the exams.   Sharon: What is requalification? Is that a test on paper or a computer, or is it just that you came to class?   Gina: It varies. It depends on which organization. I failed to mention the American Gem Society, I apologize. They also have an Independent Gemologist Appraiser program. For requalification, you have to attend a minimum amount of education every year. You have to prove you have done that. There is also an exam you have to take as well.   Sharon: You answered one of the questions I had, which is what you would ask somebody you want to be an appraiser for you. What would you ask them to know if they're good or not? What should I ask? What would somebody in the public ask if they're looking for an appraiser?   Gina: Yes. Everything that I just told you. Make sure that they have reached the highest designation they can within those appraisal organizations.   Sharon: I took some antique jewelry to an appraiser not knowing that they did all kinds of jewelry, but they weren't an expert in antiques. Was there any way to suss that out in advance?   Gina: That's a great

What you’ll learn in this episode: What questions to ask appraisers and auction houses before selling your jewelry. What education and networking opportunities an aspiring appraiser should seek out. Why an appraisal includes multiple values, and why those values will change depending on the reason for the appraisal. What the process of selling jewelry with an auction house is like, and why you might choose an auction house over selling online or to a store. What a qualified appraiser will look for while inspecting a piece of jewelry.   About Gina D'Onofrio With work in the retail, auction and manufacturing sectors of the jewelry industry since 1989, Gina D'Onofrio's experience encompasses jewelry design and production, appraisals, buying and selling of contemporary, antique and period jewelry, sales and management. Gina operates an independent gemological laboratory, appraisal service and consulting firm and has been catering to private individuals, banks, trusts, non-profit organizations, insurance companies, legal firms and the jewelry trade in the greater Los Angeles area. Gina received her Master Gemologist Appraiser® designation, upon completion of appraisal studies, written and practical examinations and peer appraisal report review with the American Society of Appraisers. In addition, she was awarded the Certified Master Appraiser designation with the National Association of Jewelry Appraisers. In 2013 Gina received Los Angeles Magazine's coveted "Best in LA" award for her Jewelry Appraisal Services. She conducts presentations and entertaining speeches about appraisal and jewelry related topics to private and corporate groups in Los Angeles and throughout the USA.   Photos Available on TheJewelryJourney.com Additional Resources: Website Instagram Facebook Email   Transcript: Auctions, appraisals, and the professionals who perform them are some of the most misunderstood elements of the jewelry industry. That’s exactly why Gina D’Onofrio, independent appraiser and Co-Director of Fine Jewelry at Heritage Auctions, joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast. She discussed what a consigner can expect when selling jewelry with an auction house; how appraisers come up with values (and why they might change); and how consumers can protect themselves by asking their appraiser the right questions. Read the episode transcript here.   Welcome to the Jewelry Journey, exploring the hidden world of art around you. Because every piece of art has a story, and jewelry is no exception.   Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey podcast. This is the first part of a two-part episode. Please make sure you subscribe so you can hear part two as soon as it's released later this week.   Today, I am glad to welcome back Gina D'Onofrio, an appraiser who just returned from being an independent appraiser. She returned to the auction house Heritage as co-director of jewelry. She was also on the podcast in the very beginning, and it's good to have her on again.  I got to know Gina when she was head of the western arm of the Association of Jewelry Historians, a volunteer position. I got to know her further when she was an independent appraiser. She recently returned to Heritage Auction House as co-director of the jewelry department. Why did she return to Heritage? That's one of the things she'll be sharing with us as she tells her story. Gina will also be describing why she chose to become an appraiser and what the job entails on a day-to-day basis. She'll tell us how she deals with the dual challenges of not only bringing in jewelry to appraise, but nurturing relationships that make clients keep coming back to her with jewelry. Gina, welcome to the podcast.   Gina: Thank you so much. It's such a pleasure to be back, Sharon. Great to talk to you again.   Sharon: I'm so glad that you are on the show again. Now, my first question is if I describe to you a piece of jewelry and you've never held it or seen it or anything, but I tell you it's this many years old and it's these stones, if it has stones, can you tell me how much you think it would be worth?   Gina: Well, appraising a piece of jewelry that I can't actually see and evaluate and hold in my hand to determine the different value characteristics it might have, it would be flippant of me to give you a value. I think it would be unfair, because you may describe it to me based on your knowledge of the piece or based on what somebody has told you about the piece. If I hold it in my hand, I might see something totally different. I may have a different opinion.  For example, you may say that someone told you it was an Art Deco brooch, that it was 1920s, and it was a sapphire and diamond piece. If I had a chance to look at it, I might determine that the sapphire was laboratory grown rather than natural, because they were producing sapphires in a lab in the 1920s. You may not have that piece of information. You may have part of it, that it's a sapphire, but you may not have the rest. So, for me to arrive at a value based on your description, it's just incomplete. It wouldn't be fair.   Sharon: Could you tell if a sapphire was lab grown or if it was natural if you just looked at it without a loupe or without a microscope?   Gina: No, not without a loupe. Definitely not. Sometimes I can determine with a loupe, depending on the sapphire and the nature of the inclusions it may or may not have. But I would have to say that nine times out of 10, I need that microscope to separate the lab grown from the natural. In fact, I was doing a lot of that today. I have a collection of pieces from a dealer, and they need me to tell them if it's laboratory grown or natural. Most of the pieces they have provided to me are circa 1920 through to 1940, and about 70% of them are lab grown.   Sharon: That's interesting. One would think that they're mostly all the same. They're all lab grown or they're all natural, or most of them are one or the other.   Gina: Yes, one would think. In fact, one of the pieces had both in the one piece. It had square calibre cut sapphires in the piece, and some of them were natural and some of them were lab grown. They were selected not for the value of the sapphires. They were selected so that they were all uniform in color. At the time, I have no doubt that those lab-grown sapphires were much more expensive than they are today, just like I imagine lab-grown diamonds will be 20 years from now. Right now, they are falling rapidly in price. I imagine in the future we'll be looking at those lab-grown diamonds just like we're looking at lab-grown sapphires that were produced in the early 20th century.   Sharon: That's interesting. Like this dealer, if I have several pieces of jewelry that I want to sell or I want to auction off, should I make the rounds of auctioneers and see what the best deal is, or should I choose the one I like, the auctioneer that I jibe with the most?   Gina: That's an interesting question. There's a lot of depends there. It depends on the piece that you have. Some auction houses will only take a certain price point and above in order for them to bring your piece to a successful sale. So, already, your piece may or may not be suitable for some auction houses.    The second part of your question, I think, is very important because the market is going to do what it's going to do. If the auction house is one of the more reputable, top-tier auction houses—Heritage Auctions is definitely one of them. If they are going to be putting the proper marketing behind your piece, professional photography, if they have an international bidding audience, then after that, it's going to be important to know that you have a comfortable relationship with the representative of that auction house and that they are going to be your advocate, because it's not just the estimate. In fact, the estimate is probably the very least important thing about your piece if you were going to be selling it at auction.  What's more important is what are they going to do for you? Are they going to represent your piece properly? Do they have the right audience for your piece? How many photographs of the piece are going to be taken? Is it going to be up for a public preview? Is it a traveling preview that your piece is going to be placed in? There are many aspects to this that need to be discussed with you as the consignor. Then also, what fees are you going to be charged? There's a lot of ifs. I wish I could give you a more direct answer, but if you were going to me, for example, at Heritage Auctions, I'm going to be exploring all those options with you so that you can make an informed decision.   Sharon: On the Antiques Roadshow, they say very often, "In a well-marketed auction, this would be X-Y-Z price." To me, a well-marketed auction is one that has to advertise. I'd see ads. That's it. What would you consider a well-marketed auction piece or auction?   Gina: Well, Sharon, coming from you, I think that's an excellent question since you are a marketing extraordinaire. These days, marketing is very different, isn't it? We're looking at more the digital aspect of marketing, because so many of us are online now, just like you and I are right now. Being online for marketing is what type of social media presence do you have? What type of email marketing do you have? Also, what is your bidding audience for marketing? How are you able to reach them? Through email, or are you just relying on more conventional forms of auction marketing, be it print advertising or be it public previews? I think in this present market, it's good to have a balance of both. But I am finding that digital marketing is becoming more and more critical.   Sharon: I would believe that. I'm curious, what are the fees involved? Is it the buyer who pays the fees or the auction house that pays the fees to the buyer? I never understood that.   Gina: Again, it depends. As far as the consignor goes, if you have the Hope Diamond

What you’ll learn in this episode: How Saudia is preserving her mom Cara Croninger’s legacy Why Cara Croninger’s resin and plastic jewelry was—and still is—groundbreaking How Cara Croninger refined her jewelry making process, and why she didn’t want her pieces to be perfect What it was like to grow up in an artistic family in the heyday of New York’s art jewelry scene How Saudia’s mom and dad influenced her music career today   About Saudia Young Saudia Young is a New York City-born actress/singer and storyteller in theater and film. Born on the Lower East Side and brought up between Tribeca and LA, Young explores the notion of home, love, justice, and identity through her art.   The recently repatriated artist lived in Berlin, Germany, for a long chapter of performing, writing, and producing. The Ameripolitan Awards 2023 Female Rockabilly Singer nominee released her 7" single ‘Noir Rockabilly Blues,’ produced by Lars Vegas-DE and featuring 'The Wobble' on the A and Iggy Pop’s 'Lust for Life' on the B side, in 2017, followed up by her 12” debut ‘Unlovable’ in 2018. The LP was recorded live at Berlin, Germany’s legendary Lightning Recorders.   Young founded a Dark Kabarett and a Rockabilly Noir Blues band in Berlin, co-created the Lost Cabaret and the Schwarze Liste Kabarett theater projects and wrote and produced the award-winning short film The Gallery. While in Berlin, she was cast in the lead voice-over role of Oskar in School for Vampires (the English version of the Hahn Film cartoon series).   Young co-wrote and performed the solo show Sneaker Revolution and is currently writing a theater/film piece about her actor father, Otis Young, and sculptor/designer mom Cara Croninger. Photos Available on TheJewelryJourney.com Additional Resources: Saudia's Website Saudia's Instagram Saudia's Youtube   Transcript:   To jewelry lovers, Cara Croninger was a groundbreaking artist whose work was shown at iconic galleries Artwear and Sculpture to Wear. To musician and actress Saudia Young, she was just mom. Today, Saudia is working to preserve her mother’s legacy and secure her place in art jewelry history. She joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about how Cara made her pioneering resin jewelry; how Cara’s work evolved with the times; and why Saudia thinks of her mom every time she performs. Read the episode transcript here. Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the second part of a two-part episode. If you haven’t heard part one, please head to TheJewelryJourney.com.   Today, we’re speaking to my guest, Saudia Young, who is located in Philadelphia. She has an interesting background. Her mother was a very well-known jeweler, and her father was an actor. She was born in New York and grew up between New York and Los Angeles. Welcome back.   Were you aware she was doing this? Were you aware that she went to different galleries, that she didn’t have a sales rep when you were growing up? Were you aware of this?   Saudia: Yeah, of course. There was one point in the 90s where she had a showroom. Tony Goldman and Janet Goldman had a showroom called Fragments, and she was in the showroom for some years. She had different reps throughout her life. Ten Thousand Things was a store. They still exist, and they have incredibly beautiful work. For a while in the Meatpacking District, they had a nice cadre of artists, and my mom was one of the artists. They also did wholesale for her. So, they represented her work to other people.   Sharon: I have a few pieces, just a smattering, but do you have a lot of her work? Do you have an archive of her work?   Saudia: Oh, yeah. That’s part of what I’ve been dealing with. My sister and I have our own personal collections. Throughout the years, my mom collected the best pieces of each group and gave us our personal collections. Then I have basically all the work she left behind when she passed away. I’ve been trying to organize that. There was a big section of it shown at the Aspen Art Museum two years ago for about a year. Jonathan Burger had a show called The Store. My mom’s jewelry and sculptures were in one show. That was really exciting, to have both together. Actually, 14 small sculptures sold during that show and, fingers crossed, about seven pieces will be donated to an institution. I’m not going to say which one. That takes a long time.   Right now, there are pieces that are actively being sold. Lisa Berman—not a family member, just the same last name—from Sculpture to Wear sold some of my mom’s work at her first gallery. She also helped sell some pieces when I came out and was trying to figure out what to do and how to secure the legacy, meaning literally a storage space to hold everything. It's a big responsibility.   Sharon: You’re referring to Lisa Berman.   Saudia: Yeah, who is not your blood relation but of the same name. Obviously, she introduced us and was part of the first interview. She’s consulted with me. She’s another one of the angels. There’s a whole host of people who are still in awe of my mom’s work and in support and cheerleading. It includes Robert Lee Morris.   I’m still trying to figure out what to do with the work to secure the legacy. It is being sold at Studio Hop in Providence, Rhode Island. That’s introducing the work to some people who have not seen it before. It's introducing it to a new audience, which is really nice. Jussara Lee, who used to sell it in Manhattan and is now in Connecticut, has been selling it. Other than that, I have an Artwork Archive website for her so people can see the work. I’m not selling it from that website, but there is a section of it that’s still being sold. Then there’s a section I’m holding in case I can get it accepted into an institution.   Sharon: I remember a few years ago, I fell in love with a bracelet and I didn’t end up getting it. I think it was the first time I ever heard of her, and I thought it was so neat.   Saudia: Yeah, it sold a lot of work. They stopped selling after she passed away. They also had a hard time. Everybody is just recovering now from Covid. A lot of people had a very hard time in the past few years. Some stores closed and sales went down. There were several stores who were carrying her work who have closed since Covid.   Sharon: What did you do to make it through Covid and to have money come in?   Saudia: I cried. I don’t know. I did whatever I could. I was going back and forth between Germany and here. There was a grant in Germany—actually, it wasn’t a grant; it was a loan—but there was a Covid loan they were giving to artists in Germany. Here, I went on unemployment for a while and then I went off it, whatever I could. We all did what we could to survive.   Sharon: That’s very true. I know there were different things we had to do. I agree with you that people are just coming out of it now.   Saudia: And now we have two wars, so it’s like, “Great, thank you.” Can’t catch a break.   Sharon: Which is worse? I don’t know. I guess if you’re in the field over there, it’s worse.   Saudia: Yeah.   Sharon: A lot worse. How does it feel to have a mother who’s mentioned by people you don’t know? You say you’re the daughter and all of a sudden, they say, “Oh, I love your mom,” or “I love her jewelry.”   Saudia: What do you mean? How does it feel?   Sharon: Yeah. If I said, “Oh, I have a really neat bracelet,” and the person says, “I’ve not heard of that person,” how does it feel?   Saudia: First of all, a young man—he’s probably my age. It’s so funny I still think of myself as a teenager. Timothy Reukauf is a stylist. He’s another angel who introduced me to the manager and owner of Screaming Mimis Vintage clothing and jewelry store in New York. When I brought the work, because they brought the work to a vintage show, and they’re showing the work and trying to sell it, she was so enthusiastic and happy and excited. It was nice because it’s an extension of my mom, and I miss my mom. I feel like it’s that, as opposed to anything ego-based. It’s more emotional—now you’re going to get me emotional. But it’s nice to know because I really miss her, and when I hear people loving her work, it’s heartening. It’s heart filling.   Sharon: That’s a good word, heart-filling. I’ve heard different things. It’s Croninger with a hard g. I’ve heard that as Croninger with a soft g. Which one is it?   Saudia: Oh lord, that’s a good one. It’s Cara Croninger with a hard g, but people have called her Croninger with a soft g. People have called her Cara. She’s even called herself Cara, but it’s Cara Lee. Her Michigan name was Cara Lee Croninger, but it depends on who you are. Are you Dutch? Are you German? Are you from New Jersey?   Sharon: Did she support your career as an artist?   Saudia: Do you mean my dreaming? Yeah, she supported me being a dreaming, silly person, definitely. She put me in dance school. She always thought I should be a painter, actually. She’d say, “You should be a painter,” because I had a natural ability to draw and to work with my hands. After being a child laborer with her, I could make things. But all jokes aside, she was very supportive of me being an artist or whatever it was that I wanted to be, political activist or artist. My sister was an architect. She was very supportive of that. She was beloved by a lot of the young artists who were around Dumbo, our friends, our extended family. She was a positive influence, a positive auntie, elder, second mom, to a lot of people.   Sharon: It sounds like it.   Saudia: Yeah. I shared her as a mom figure with a lot of people.   Sharon: Tell us more about your singing. Do you think of her when you sing?   Saudia: Yeah, I think of her with whatever I do, for sure. There’s one song—I think you wrote it down on the question list—It Don’t Mean a Thing (If It Ain’t Got that Swing), doo wop, doo wop, doo wop, doo wop. I think it was Louis Armstrong. She was working on some kind of saying or branding because she was really i

What you’ll learn in this episode: How Saudia is preserving her mom Cara Croninger’s legacy Why Cara Croninger’s resin and plastic jewelry was—and still is—groundbreaking How Cara Croninger refined her jewelry making process, and why she didn’t want her pieces to be perfect What it was like to grow up in an artistic family in the heyday of New York’s art jewelry scene How Saudia’s mom and dad influenced her music career today   About Saudia Young Saudia Young is a New York City-born actress/singer and storyteller in theater and film. Born on the Lower East Side and brought up between Tribeca and LA, Young explores the notion of home, love, justice, and identity through her art.   The recently repatriated artist lived in Berlin, Germany, for a long chapter of performing, writing, and producing. The Ameripolitan Awards 2023 Female Rockabilly Singer nominee released her 7" single ‘Noir Rockabilly Blues,’ produced by Lars Vegas-DE and featuring 'The Wobble' on the A and Iggy Pop’s 'Lust for Life' on the B side, in 2017, followed up by her 12” debut ‘Unlovable’ in 2018. The LP was recorded live at Berlin, Germany’s legendary Lightning Recorders.   Young founded a Dark Kabarett and a Rockabilly Noir Blues band in Berlin, co-created the Lost Cabaret and the Schwarze Liste Kabarett theater projects and wrote and produced the award-winning short film The Gallery. While in Berlin, she was cast in the lead voice-over role of Oskar in School for Vampires (the English version of the Hahn Film cartoon series).   Young co-wrote and performed the solo show Sneaker Revolution and is currently writing a theater/film piece about her actor father, Otis Young, and sculptor/designer mom Cara Croninger. Photos Available on TheJewelryJourney.com Additional Resources: Saudia's Website Saudia's Instagram Saudia's Youtube   Transcript:   To jewelry lovers, Cara Croninger was a groundbreaking artist whose work was shown at iconic galleries Artwear and Sculpture to Wear. To musician and actress Saudia Young, she was just mom. Today, Saudia is working to preserve her mother’s legacy and secure her place in art jewelry history. She joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about how Cara made her pioneering resin jewelry; how Cara’s work evolved with the times; and why Saudia thinks of her mom every time she performs. Read the episode transcript here. Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the first part of a two-part episode. Please make sure you subscribe so you can hear part two as soon as it’s released later this week.   Today, we’re speaking to my guest, Saudia Young, who is located in Philadelphia. She has an interesting background. Her mother was a very well-known jeweler, and her father was an actor. She was born in New York and grew up between New York and Los Angeles. She is New York material. You will be surprised to hear that she developed a career as an actress, a writer and a singer. She’s described as having a whisky voice, and I think that’s true, a caramel whisky voice. She was a nominee in 2023.   Saudia: Thank you so much for having me. I’m really glad to come on to your show for the second time. It was the Ameripolitan Music Awards. I was simply nominated for female rockabilly singer. There are lots of different categories and full bands. Jane Rose won for the rockabilly female singer that year. They’re moving on, but it was very exciting to come after 15 years in Germany to participate in that. I’ve met a lot of awesome people because of that.   Sharon: I know you’ve lived in several places, but I didn’t know for 15 years, you say, in Berlin?   Saudia: Yes.   Sharon: Wow! Now you’re in Philadelphia this evening.   Saudia: Yes.   Sharon: Is that your home?   Saudia: It is for now. It’s where my sister lives. I have a sister from my mother and my father. He had other children, so that’s why I clarify that. I’m spending some time with my sister. I’ve been back and forth in the States since my mom passed in 2019. I’m honestly trying to figure out where I’m going to live. It’s not clear because of Covid and my mom passing, but it’s been a lot.   Sharon: 15 years being in one place.   Saudia: Yeah, so I’m here for now. I feel like I can’t commit to saying this is my home. It’s like, “Let’s see what it brings. Let’s see what happens.” It’s great to hang out with my sister. I’m close to my mom’s work, which is stored now in Hackensack, New Jersey. I moved it from New York. My mom’s work has had more of a tour than I have.   Sharon: Cara Croninger is your mom’s name. Even though she passed—I’m very sorry to hear that—she’s still very well-known. She has an exhibit in the Smithsonian?   Saudia: No, it’s simply her papers, photographs, articles, fashion editorials. As you know, she bridged fashion and art. She was in both worlds. She had a toe or a foot or whatever in both worlds, so she has been accepted into the Archives of American Art at the Smithsonian. That means they have letters, her correspondence to other artists and gallerists and whomever, any type of reviews, sketches, all her boxes of papers and some photographs. It’s an honor. It was sad to let that go, but it’s also awesome because that means it’s helping to secure her legacy.   It will eventually be uploaded digitally so people will be able to look at it. You can go into the archives and look up different artists and see their papers. For example, one of my favorite things were letters from Floriana Frassetto, who founded Mummenschanz and was one of her best friends. She always wrote these beautiful letters to her. She would call her Cara Mia. She was Swiss-Italian. So, it’s just that, showing the ephemeral items in her life.   Sharon: You’ve been on this program before. You were among our first guests—   Saudia: Yeah.   Sharon: If you want to listen to it, it’s on TheJewelryJourney.com. We’re so glad to have you back again.   Saudia: Thank you.   Sharon: Tell me why your mom’s jewelry was different. What was the breakthrough? Why are they keeping her papers?   Saudia: I think because of that bridge. She wasn’t craft. She came as a sculptor. Her jewelry was made of acrylic and polyester resin, although she did work in other materials like metals. She started off painting, but the work was always very sculptural and almost avant garde. It went from very organic and indigenous and African influenced to futuristic. It was solidly in the art world, but also solidly in the fashion world when she was with Robert Lee Morris’ gallery, Artwear, and before that, Sculpture to Wear.   Artwear blew up and it was very, very popular in the press and in fashion magazines. All the top models were wearing it. People like Iman would come to the gallery openings. It was part of that whole exciting time in the 80s in New York, seeping a little bit into the 90s, but mostly in the 80s. It was in the late 70s and throughout the 80s that they had their heyday. There were other artists in this gallery that are now working and very well-known, like Ted Muehling, Robert Lee Morris himself. Carol Motty, may she rest in peace, was a very, very good friend of my mom. She worked in silicone.   Sharon: I’m sorry. I don’t know her.   Saudia: Carol Motty. She did wild, neon-colored, awesome pieces in silicone rubber. She was unique in that it literally was a bridge of art and fashion. That’s what she built. I think that was her significance. In terms of the materials, the pieces cost anywhere from $40 to $4,000 or more. She raised the level of this material, which is plastic resin and acrylic, polyester resin, to a very high level. It would get the same price that silver and gold and gemstone jewels would get because of the beauty, the workmanship, that she put into it. The work is known for having this sensual beauty. A lot of the pieces have a wonderful weight. They have a talisman magic to them. People often will collect the pieces. You even collected some pieces.   Sharon: Yeah, I did. I love them.   Saudia: It’s kind of magic. She herself as a person was a beautiful, down-to-earth, but funny and effervescent person. People loved meeting her. They loved collecting the work.   Sharon: What was the role you and your sister played?   Saudia: We were her daughters. We did help make work. There were points where we learned how to do the finishing work. We never did the pouring, creating the pigments or the molds, but we could help with finishing. We’d be her child laborers and work on the sanding machine or polishing or drilling holes or what have you. We were able to do finishing work. Because we grew up with it, we understood the shapes and her style, but even growing up with it, there was always some kind of tension. She would say, “That’s your style. That’s not mine.” It wasn’t easy because it was so organic and very unique. That made it hard for her to have people work for her.   Sharon: When you would attend these parties or an opening night at the galleries, did you know who the celebrities of the day were? Were you aware?   Saudia: Yeah, I was in my early 20s or so. At one point, my sister and I both worked at Artwear. We were both looking forward to working with Robert. That was always really fun. Even the artists were celebrities to us because they were so talented and vivacious and positive. I knew a lot of the models, the supermodels, Pat Cleveland and whomever, but since my dad was an actor, I grew up already having certain people in my life. I was trained for that to be not that big of a deal because I just grew up in that.   When my parents met, they were in the Village in the 60s. James Baldwin was a good friend of my dad, and he was allegedly my godfather. It was a smaller world in a way. Definitely, the 60s and even the 80s feel like a more innocent time than now for some reason. I met different celebrities just on my own, and you felt like they were New Yorkers. I knew Jean-Michel Basquiat and I was like, “He’s just a kid.” I had no clue.  

Link to article:  https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/20/fashion/jewelry-podcasts.html Welcome to the Jewelry Journey, exploring the hidden world of art around you. Because every piece of art has a story, and jewelry is no exception. Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey podcast. We are thrilled to announce an article on the Jewelry Journey podcast from writer Melanie Abrams released in the New York Times. The article is linked in the show notes, our website, and even Instagram. So please help us take the jewelry journey even farther by sharing, liking and commenting on the article. Hopefully in the coming months I will have some of the other hosts from the article so that we can learn more about their adoration of adornments. Thank you again for listening.Please leave us a rating and review so we can help others start their own jewelry journey.

What you’ll learn in this episode: Why artist jewelry is more than just miniature versions of larger work The history of artist jewelry, and how Esther is helping its story continue How Esther helps artists with their first forays into jewelry, and why making jewelry can be a fruitful challenge for fine artists Why an artist’s first idea for a piece of jewelry is often not their best Why artist jewelry collectors must be brave About Esther de Beaucé Esther de Beaucé is the founder and owner of Galerie MiniMasterpiece in Paris, France. MiniMasterpiece is a gallery entirely dedicated to contemporary artists, designers and architects’ jewelry. The gallery is an invitation given to those who usually never design jewelry because their work evolves on a more monumental scale (i.e. sculptures). Esther’s passion is to convince those artists to change the scale of their work and accompany them in that new field of wearable art. She has collaborated with acclaimed contemporary artists such as Phillip King, Bernar Venet, Andres Serrano, Lee Ufan, Jean-Luc Moulène, and Pablo Reinoso. A graduate of Brown University, Esther previously co-owned the gallery Schirman & de Beaucé in Paris, dedicated to young artists of contemporary art. Photos available on TheJewelryJourney.com Additional Resources: Website Instagram Transcript: For gallerist Esther de Beaucé, artist jewelry isn’t completely art or completely contemporary jewelry. It’s in a niche all its own—and that’s what makes it fascinating. As founder and owner of Galerie MiniMasterpiece in Paris, she helps fine artists translate their art into jewelry, creating something entirely new rather than a smaller version of their typical work. She joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about how she challenges artists to think about their work differently; how interest in artist jewelry has evolved over the years; and why artist jewelry collectors are so open minded. Read the episode transcript here. Sharon: Welcome to the Jewelry Journey, exploring the hidden world of art around you. Because every piece of art has a story, and jewelry is no exception. Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the second part of a two-part episode. If you haven't heard part one, please head to TheJewelryJourney.com. I don't remember how I found out about Esther de Beaucé’s gallery in Paris. It is tucked back in the corner with other galleries. Welcome back. Do you have collectors, people who like a certain artist or piece they've found in your gallery, and then they come back and look for others, or you send them a postcard telling them, “We're having a show of that artist,” or something like that? Esther: Yes. I have shows at the gallery as well, maybe for a year. Most of the time they are solo shows. I like solo shows a lot because it's like for art, when when you have a solo show, you're surrounded by several pieces of work. You are emerging into their body of work. It's more interesting to me than having one piece by that artist and another piece by another artist. I like solo shows a lot, but solo shows are not easy to make because it means that obviously the artist had several ideas. It takes a lot of time to organize a solo show, but I try to make solo shows most of the time. I invite all my collectors to these shows. It's always difficult to know what's going to happen between a collector and a piece of jewelry, what connection is going to operate at that time. Sometimes collectors choose or fall for an object, and they don't know the artist who's behind it, but they really fall for an object. I really like that idea. Sometimes collectors are very close to an artist, and they have several pieces of that artist in their homes. When they realize that artist has also made a piece of jewelry, then of course they're going to be interested in it. Most of the jewels I have at the gallery, I hope they speak for themselves. You were asking me about collectors and jewelry. Sharon: You answered the question. But do have people who only collect, let's say, Pablo Picasso's jewelry or something that? Esther: Yeah, of course. Some women only wear silver or only wear gold or only wear rings or never wear any brooches. I try to remember all that so I can show them what they like. But I also enjoy presenting them with other things, too, because it's always interesting to make discoveries. And the collectors of artist jewelry are very open-minded people. It takes a lot of, I wouldn't say courage, but it takes a lot of personality to wear something that is different from common jewelry. You have to be strong because you're going to attract looks, and sometimes you have to speak about what you're wearing and answer people's reactions. Sometimes other people can be very narrow-minded, and you have to assume what you chose and what you wear on your body. So, this type of collector, they're very interesting to welcome. What I mean is that even though they have their taste, they are easy to counsel as well because they have that curiosity. They want to learn, and they want to see so much. So, they are very interesting people. Sharon: Do they go on to start liking the artist's other things, their paintings or drawings, after they started with the jewelry? Esther: Yes, of course. I have a lot of jewels at the gallery, but I also have a lot of books, and those books help me explain the artist's work at large. Often, when I can, I try to offer a book to accompany the jewel to give them more background on the artist. Yeah, definitely. Sharon: Do you make jewelry yourself? Did you ever make jewelry yourself? Esther: No. Never. Maybe as a kid playing with leaves and flowers, but that's it. Or pasta. Sharon: What did you study? When you were in the States, did you think about opening a gallery in France? Esther: No, I studied anthropology. I really wanted to work as an anthropologist, but it didn't happen. After that first art experience that ended in 2012, I wanted a new project working with artists. I had seen the year before, in 2011, a great artist jewelry show at the MAD in New York. That was actually my mother's collection of artist jewelry. I went to New York for her opening, and it was the first time that I saw her collection in the museum environment, and I was so impressed. I started thinking of a new project for myself, and this show in New York was really—how would you say— Sharon: Eye opening. Esther: That's it. Eye opening and a decision-making moment. And as I came back to Paris, I started really talking about it and organizing my professional life to make it possible. Sharon: That's interesting. When you said your mother was a collector, I thought, “Well, she must have started early, before anybody was wearing it or knew about it.” Today, more and more people know about it, but then she probably didn't have a lot of friends who were collecting the same thing. Esther: Yeah, for sure. That show was 12 years ago, but she started collecting artist jewelry 40 years ago. There are few women in the world who have done the same thing. There are few. It's a large and important collection. She focused on that in a professional way. Sharon: When you said that you thought it was a more active field in the 60s and 70s and then it sort of died down, why do you think that was? Esther: It's a matter of different elements. I think it was in 1969, there was a great show at the MOMA in New York on artist jewelry that’s never happened since. You also had great artists, jewelry editors at that time in Italy. You had GianCarlo Montebello, who was a goldsmith and an editor, and he worked with fantastic artists like Fontana and the Pomodoro brothers. Montebello made fantastic pieces. In the south of France, you had François Hugo, who was a very important goldsmith as well. He's the one who made all the jewelry by Max Ernst and Man Ray and Picasso and Dorothea Tanning. Sometimes it's just a matter of a few people. They really made the artist jewelry world very active at the time, but then they stopped and did something else, so it went quiet again. Hopefully, it's getting more intense now, but you need people behind it. Once these people do something else, then it dies a little bit. And then you have a new generation of editors and it starts again. Sharon: By editor you also mean curator, right? It's a curator. Esther: Also, yeah. By editor I mean what I do personally, but what also has been done by Luisa Guinness or Elisabetta Cipriani or Marina Filippini, those active editors, meaning you invite artists to make jewelry pieces. This is what I called editor. This is what I do. Sharon: Do you only wear art jewelry that you have in your gallery or that an artist has made, or do you wear “normal” jewelry? Esther: It might sound weird to you, but I'm a low-key person. I'm a discreet person. When I'm at the gallery every day, I choose a piece of work and I wear it all day in the gallery with an immense pleasure. But when I go out, when I go to a dinner party or visit a show, I don't wear jewelry. It might sound funny, but I wouldn't want people to think I am always promoting what I do and my work. Imagine a regular art dealer. He wouldn't go to an art fair or to a to a dinner party carrying with him a painting or a sculpture. When I go out wearing a jewel from the gallery, I feel like I'm still working, and I don't like that idea. I don't want people to imagine that I'm always trying to sell jewelry. So, in dinner parties, I'm very often the only woman not wearing any piece of jewelry, which is very stupid. But yeah, this is me. Sharon: That's interesting. Has anybody ever stopped you on the street and said, “That’s a really interesting necklace you have on”? Esther: Yeah, but not very often because when you see me on the street, I don't have it on me. Of course, on special occasions I do, but I mostly wear artist jewelry in the gallery, and it's a great pleasure to do so. I change every day and wear se

What you’ll learn in this episode: Why artist jewelry is more than just miniature versions of larger work The history of artist jewelry, and how Esther is helping its story continue How Esther helps artists with their first forays into jewelry, and why making jewelry can be a fruitful challenge for fine artists Why an artist’s first idea for a piece of jewelry is often not their best Why artist jewelry collectors must be brave About Esther de Beaucé Esther de Beaucé is the founder and owner of Galerie MiniMasterpiece in Paris, France. MiniMasterpiece is a gallery entirely dedicated to contemporary artists, designers and architects’ jewelry. The gallery is an invitation given to those who usually never design jewelry because their work evolves on a more monumental scale (i.e. sculptures). Esther’s passion is to convince those artists to change the scale of their work and accompany them in that new field of wearable art. She has collaborated with acclaimed contemporary artists such as Phillip King, Bernar Venet, Andres Serrano, Lee Ufan, Jean-Luc Moulène, and Pablo Reinoso. A graduate of Brown University, Esther previously co-owned the gallery Schirman & de Beaucé in Paris, dedicated to young artists of contemporary art. Photos available on TheJewelryJourney.com Additional Resources: Website Instagram Transcript: For gallerist Esther de Beaucé, artist jewelry isn’t completely art or completely contemporary jewelry. It’s in a niche all its own—and that’s what makes it fascinating. As founder and owner of Galerie MiniMasterpiece in Paris, she helps fine artists translate their art into jewelry, creating something entirely new rather than a smaller version of their typical work. She joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about how she challenges artists to think about their work differently; how interest in artist jewelry has evolved over the years; and why artist jewelry collectors are so open minded. Read the episode transcript here. Sharon: Welcome to the Jewelry Journey, exploring the hidden world of art around you. Because every piece of art has a story, and jewelry is no exception. Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the first part of a two-part episode. Please make sure you subscribe so you can hear part two as soon as it's released later this week. I don't remember how I found out about Esther de Beaucé’s gallery in Paris. It is tucked back in the corner with other galleries. I don't know, unless you are looking for it, if you would find it easily. It was an intentional destination for me both times I've been there. It is very hard to find. I was determined that I was going to find it, and after a little bit of time I did find it. It is a very cozy and comfortable gallery, and Esther herself is easy to talk to. The gallery specializes in jewelry designed by artists. Some are French, some are Italian, and I'm sure there are others. The prices are very reasonable compared with other shops with jewelry by artists where you find a pretentious atmosphere. Esther speaks English flawlessly, having attended Brown College, and she has been on the podcast before, many moons ago. I'll let her tell you the rest of the story. Esther, welcome to the program. Esther: Hello, Sharon. Thank you for having me today. Sharon: I'm so glad to have you. So, why did you choose to sell jewelry by artists? Esther: I wanted to work with artists, contemporary artists, because before MiniMasterpiece, I had a first gallery also in Paris, working with young artists on paintings and sculptures and drawings. That gallery had to end, and my obsession was continuing working with artists because I really enjoyed that, that work, but I had to find another way. There are many art galleries in Paris, and I wanted to find a more special way to work with them. I knew of artist jewelry, and there aren’t many places in the world and in Paris, either, for artist jewelry. So, this is how I started. Sorry, I think I said enough. Sharon: No, please, go ahead. Esther: So, at first, it was more for the pleasure of working with artists than that of making jewelry. After 12 years, I became very fond of jewelry, of course. I wouldn't say exactly the same thing, but back in time, 12 years ago, it was really my love for artists. Sharon: It was your love for artists. How was it changing from the drawings and the paintings and all of that to jewelry? Was it natural? Was it different? Esther: Yeah, it's a challenge for them, of course, when I invite them to think of their work at a different scale. They have to think of the body, which most of the time they never do because when you make a sculpture or a painting or a photograph, obviously it's not to be worn. But this time it was a big challenge for them and also for me, because 12 years ago I knew little about jewelry making itself. We both had to learn. It was a challenge for them, and it was also a challenge for me. But I knew that it was possible because it's a story that goes back in time for about a century now, with Picasso and Calder and Giacometti, all those great visual artists who made a few wearable art pieces on the side of their main activity. Sharon: Was it scary for you to start asking artists if they would do their jewelry, if they would make jewelry? Esther: I started asking those artists I knew personally because they were family friends, or I had worked with them in the past with that former gallery I had. So, I didn't take many risks the first year. Then I got more brave and I started to ask other artists. I only ask those artists where I like the work. I am a big fan of their monumental work. They are mostly sculptors. It's because I like their sculpture, but I think of inviting them to make a sculpture to wear. Sharon: Do they look at you funny, like, “What are you talking about?” Or, “I don't understand what you mean”? Esther: Most of them understand the idea. I've had several artists say no, but not that many. Sometimes they even thought about making a jewelry piece but never had the occasion to do so because they need to be surrounded by the good people. Very often they need to be accompanied by a goldsmith because they haven’t mastered the work of gold or silver, so they need help on that matter. But once you invite them and tell them about that great story and how many artists have worked on that subject in the past, and that you can take them to the right goldsmiths that can help them understand their project, then it's much easier for them to accept. Sharon: And have they ever rejected you and just said, “Forget it. That's weird”? Esther: Yeah, of course they have. Sometimes it's because they don't get a good idea. Finding the right idea is not that easy. Sometimes they don't have time. Sometimes it's not a good time for them to spend some energy on that project. And of course, I understand that perfectly. In very, very, very few cases, sometimes they don't take jewelry very seriously. They have that image of jewelry being something not serious. But there are many artists I can invite, and those who don't want to play with me, it's no big deal. Sharon: Do you leave it to them to decide if it's a bracelet or a ring or a necklace or what they're going to make? Esther: Yes, of course. I open possibilities for them as wide as they want at the beginning. Then once they have ideas, we talk. Once it gets more precise, if they are going to make only one piece of jewelry, sometimes I advise them to think of a ring or a necklace because they are the most iconic type of jewels. If they have several ideas, then why not add a bracelet or earrings? But if they have to make only one, I usually recommend them to make a necklace. Also, because a necklace leaves more volume and space for them to express themselves. Sometimes it's very difficult for them to condense their work into a very tiny piece. A necklace is bigger. Sharon: What do you say to them if they say, “Esther, I'm a sculptor. I don't know how to make this small”? What do you say? Esther: I say that what I'm interested in is the DNA of their work. An idea has no size. Basically, it would be the same as making a very large sculpture. But when they are invited by a museum or a gallery, they are given a space to make. Sometimes they make a sculpture especially for that space, a museum or a gallery. I just tell them, “Well, this time you have to make a piece of a sculpture for the body.” It is just another way of thinking, and artists like to be challenged. It's a very big challenge for them, but they are very often excited by that challenge. Sharon: Are they doing other things? Are they making the jewelry for your gallery, and they’re working on a sculpture or painting at the same time? It might be a different subject, but I'm wondering. Esther: Yes. I think they're on different topics at the same time. Also, when they have to think of making a wearable sculpture, sometimes it helps them to think of a new idea for a monumental work. This is something they have said to me on various occasions, that going from big to small and then back to big is also interesting for them. Sometimes it has an impact on how they think big afterwards. Sharon: You're located in the antique district in Paris, right? Esther: Yes. Not only antiques. It's called the Carré Rive Gauche. It's a very special geography because it's like a square with about six streets. It's very unique in the world because in that square you have about 120 galleries and antique shops of different specialties. You have contemporary art, you have antiques, you have Chinese art, African art, glass works, silver works. It's very unique to have such a strong—how would you say that—density of art shops. It’s not like—you know the Marais? The Marais is another district that is very focused on contemporary design and contemporary art. Carré Rive Gauche and Saint-Germain-des-Prés reunites a wider range of art galleries, and I really like that mix. I feel very

What you’ll learn in this episode:   How studying and apprenticing abroad helped Ilona push the limits of her work How objects carry memories, and why that can influence someone’s desire to buy a vintage piece Why the most important thing a gallerist can do is choose pieces that resonate with them How art jewelry galleries create a channel of communication from artist to wearer to observer Why jewelry artists have more freedom that other types of artists   About Ilona Schwippel Ilona Schwippel has run the gallery Viceversa, in Lausanne, Switzerland, with her husband Christian Balmer for 20 years. She holds a bachelor in product design, jewelry and accessories from the High School of Arts and Design (HEAD) in Geneva and a diploma in luxury creations and artistic crafts from the University of Geneva. Since 2017, Ilona has lectured at the University of Applied Science, in Lucerne, in the XS Schmuck department.   Additional Resources: Vice Versa Website Vice Versa Instagram Vice Versa Facebook   Photos Available on TheJewelryJourney.com Transcript Gallerists have a unique position in the jewelry world as the connectors between artist and wearer—and Ilona Schwippel holds sacred this responsibility. As co-owner of jewelry gallery Viceversa in Lausanne, Switzerland, she is always looking for the pieces that resonate with her and her clients. She joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about why jewelry carries the memories of its previous owners; why jewelry gives artists more freedom than any other medium; and how giving context to a piece can change a customer’s perception of it—for better or worse. Read the episode transcript here.   Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the second part of a two-part episode. If you haven’t heard part one, please head to TheJewelryJourney.com.   I went on Art Jewelry Forum’s trip to Switzerland to find Swiss jewelers that I didn’t know about. Art Jewelry Forum has an international trip every year, and they’re usually very interesting and very good. There I met Ilona Schwippel and her partner, Christian, who are owners of the gallery Viceversa. Welcome back.   If you see somebody who is interested and keeps looking at the piece, they keep coming back and looking at it, let’s say, do you then explain what the artist was trying to do?   Ilona: If I have the chance, which I think is great and I really appreciate, I tell him the first time, or I tell that person my idea and the context of the piece at the very beginning. It depends on the person sometimes, how open they are at the moment to see what kind of discussion, what kind of dialogue we can have, whether the person wants to hear it or not. This is always very unpredictable.   Sharon: Do you think art jewelry tells a deeper story than other kinds of jewelry?   Ilona: I think so. Yes, absolutely. I also think that a piece of contemporary jewelry tells a very different story to the observer once its worn. It’s a different kind of communication.   Sharon: It’s interesting. It’s probably true that once it’s worn, it tells a different story. Do you concentrate on certain artists? Do they have to be known? Are they up-and-comers? Any particular kind of artist?   Ilona: We have both. Next spring, for example, we will prepare an exhibition with Karl Fritsch. We’ve been working with him for many, many years. Maybe it’s the third or fourth solo exhibition that we’ve done with him. It’s always incredible how he continues to surprise us by only making rings. This is really incredible.   Sharon: Karl Fritsch?   Ilona: Karl Fritsch. For instance, sometimes he works with already existing jewelry, and he interferes; he changes the piece in my eyes. He doesn’t only change the aspect of the piece by enhancing it or by improving the design in a humoristic way, the way they improve the design of very classical pieces with fantastic design. Some of them have just been turning the piece into something else, and they said it was like improving the piece.   With Karl Fritsch, I think he is somewhere else. What I think is really interesting and very touching is that he changes it. For example, he takes an existing ring—each ring has a story. Each ring has its pedigree in terms of ownership. Sometimes you know; sometimes you don’t. Some people want to know; some people absolutely don’t want to know. What I think is interesting in his work is he takes this ancient piece, for example, and he changes the path of this ring. It doesn’t continue its way of living from owner to owner in a straight way. He takes a very sharp, radical turn. All of a sudden, it’s not only the piece that changes; it’s many things. The definition of the owner changes. I think that’s a very interesting part of his work.   Sharon: I’m surprised to hear people don’t want to hear what it was originally and what it means today. Why wouldn’t people want to know? Do you have any idea?   Ilona: Maybe they’re just more comfortable with something unknown than to know the stories. They would like to wear the piece, but they don’t want to carry the story of the piece or the story of the ancient owner with them. I think there is a very strong relationship between the owner and jewelry. Some pieces are really marked by the story of the ancient owner. It’s something personal.   There’s this German-Vietnamese philosopher who is talking about objects. They are a souvenir of people, of situations. That’s where he says it’s a dramatic difference between data and tangible objects. I think objects really have the capacity to carry on memories, and I can understand that not everybody is comfortable with that. I think this is an incredible quality of jewelry.   Sharon: If somebody comes to you and they want to exhibit or have their pieces in the gallery, does it matter to you if nobody has ever heard of them if you like the piece?   Ilona: If you like the work, yes. The distinction between pieces of work—as a gallery, we like to build up a long-term relationship with the artists. We love following the work, seeing the evolution of the artist and seeing the new work in relation to the pieces that were there before. If you see only one piece, it’s difficult to read, and it’s difficult to talk about the universe. I think it’s always exciting and important to see the universe, to have a body of work. Not just single pieces, but a body of work that tells a story. Then, if the person is known or unknown, it doesn’t matter. It’s about the quality and the content of this body of work.   Sharon: So, if they want to exhibit in your gallery but they only bring one work or one piece, you tell them to come back and show four or five so you get the connection.   Ilona: Yeah, and it’s also to know about the artist’s aim, about the content of the pieces, to feel the intention of the artist, why he or she did these pieces. Why do these pieces exist? Why was it important to create them? Why do they have to exist?   Sharon: Has it changed your mind when they bring one piece and you think, “Oh, well, that’s not so great,” but then they bring four or five and it’s the connection you see?   Ilona: Yes, absolutely. You can really see a story and also see it more in depth. With one piece, it’s more difficult to see the depth of the intention. If it’s only one piece, it’s less evident, maybe.   Sharon: You operate the gallery with your husband. Do you have a division of labor? Do you look at the pieces and he writes the catalogue?   Ilona: A lot of things we do together. This gallery is something really personal. It’s also incredible that each gallery you visit is so different from the other. It reflects the passion of each gallerist. I think it’s important that Christian and I work together. There are many questions we have to discuss, to talk about the artist, about the pieces and the exhibitions we would like to build up. Inside, we do some tasks separately for sure, but a lot of decisions we have to make together. It’s very enriching to have discussions about artists’ work that we don’t agree on. This is very interesting.   Sharon: Can you walk into different galleries and feel a different—I don’t know what to call it—an air, a different feeling when you go into different galleries? Some of them are passionate and some are more utilitarian, let’s say. Can you tell?   Ilona: I think so, yes. I think it really reflects the gallerist who made this choice. I think it’s important that you see that. It’s not important that you see the difference, but it is important that the choice of the pieces and the works of the artists is something authentic with the gallerist.   Sharon: I guess I skipped a question. I wanted to ask why you like art jewelry.   Ilona: Good question. I think I’m fascinated with the power that pieces have, the power of this non-personal communication. I think there are two aspects. On the one hand, I am aware as a wearer, so I want to make these pieces on my body communicate to the person in front of me. It’s like being a team with this piece of art. We have the same bond; we have the same message to give.   On the other hand, as a gallerist, you have a different view of the piece. There, I see more of a connection to the artist, and I leave it open as to whom it will talk to, who is going to fall in love with it. Sometimes it’s myself. I think it is the content, and it’s something essential in communication.   Sharon: Have you seen a piece that you might want to put in your gallery, but you don’t wear it yourself?   Ilona: Yes and no.   Sharon: It just doesn’t communicate what you want it to communicate.   Ilona: Yes. There are pieces I really love, but I don’t feel this connection when I wear it. I guess this just happens. I think this is healthy.   Sharon: But some other people might still see a connection.   Ilona: Absolutely.   Sharon: Have you ever worked in another gallery?   Ilona: I did work at one when I was in Lisbon. I worked in the gallery at Artefacto3. At t

What you’ll learn in this episode:   How studying and apprenticing abroad helped Ilona push the limits of her work How objects carry memories, and why that can influence someone’s desire to buy a vintage piece Why the most important thing a gallerist can do is choose pieces that resonate with them How art jewelry galleries create a channel of communication from artist to wearer to observer Why jewelry artists have more freedom that other types of artists   About Ilona Schwippel Ilona Schwippel has run the gallery Viceversa, in Lausanne, Switzerland, with her husband Christian Balmer for 20 years. She holds a bachelor in product design, jewelry and accessories from the High School of Arts and Design (HEAD) in Geneva and a diploma in luxury creations and artistic crafts from the University of Geneva. Since 2017, Ilona has lectured at the University of Applied Science, in Lucerne, in the XS Schmuck department.   Additional Resources: Vice Versa Website Vice Versa Instagram Vice Versa Facebook   Photos Available on TheJewelryJourney.com Transcript Gallerists have a unique position in the jewelry world as the connectors between artist and wearer—and Ilona Schwippel holds sacred this responsibility. As co-owner of jewelry gallery Viceversa in Lausanne, Switzerland, she is always looking for the pieces that resonate with her and her clients. She joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about why jewelry carries the memories of its previous owners; why jewelry gives artists more freedom than any other medium; and how giving context to a piece can change a customer’s perception of it—for better or worse. Read the episode transcript here.   Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the first part of a two-part episode. Please make sure you subscribe so you can hear part two as soon as it’s released later this week.   Many of you know that I went on Art Jewelry Forum’s trip to Switzerland to find Swiss jewelers that I didn’t know about. Art Jewelry Forum has an international trip every year, and they’re usually very interesting and very good. There I met Ilona Schwippel and her partner, Christian, who are owners of the gallery Viceversa. The gallery has a mix of up-and-comers as well as those who are familiar names. They’re located in the center of Lausanne. It’s a great place to be located because there’s a lot of foot traffic. People must stop in the store never having heard of it, but they are attracted by the windows. I was really taken with the name of the gallery, which is Viceversa, and thought about what it could mean. Since I couldn’t come up with anything on my own, I’ll let Ilona tell you. Ilona, welcome to the podcast.   Ilona: Hi Sharon. Thank you so much for this wonderful invitation.   Sharon: I’m glad you’re here.   Ilona: Actually, to explain the name, I have to talk about the story of Viceversa gallery. Christian Balmer —actually my husband; we’re married—opened a small gallery in 1991. A couple of years later, in 1998, with a colleague, they opened a new store, a new gallery. All of a sudden, there existed these two stores. It was like vice versa—one of them in the other store. That’s why when I’m talking about organizing and summing up this whole project, each of them came up with the word, vice versa and vice versa. So, they stuck to the name and selected it for the new gallery.   I came to Lausanne. We had met a couple of years before. At the time, I was still living in Lisbon. I’m a jewelry maker, and I had an internship, a practice, in Tel Aviv with an Israeli jewelry maker. During a show we had in Basel, Christian came as a visitor, and that’s how we met. It was a professional meeting.   Sharon: I was surprised because in reading about it, the name of the gallery had been around for a long time, it seemed.   Ilona: Yes, this year in November, in three weeks, we will celebrate 25 years of the galleries.   Sharon: Wow! It’s a hallmark. There are not many galleries that can say that. So, you’re married. My next question was why did you and Christian decide to have the gallery together, your own art gallery? You are married. You studied in Lisbon?   Ilona: I did an apprenticeship. I started doing an apprenticeship in jewelry making with a master, as you can do in many places. It’s quite usual to do that. Also, in order to find my own way of working, of thinking, of seeing things, I wanted to go abroad and feel the edges, feel the limits, and go beyond them. I had chosen Lisbon to experience this new context and to work there as an independent jewelry maker and designer. Since there is a very good school, I had the chance to participate in several workshops. It was my first contact with contemporary jewelry at the time.   Once in a while, I had questions that I didn’t find the answers to. I was seeking dialogues. So, I saw in a magazine at the time an article about this Israeli jewelry maker, and I thought, “Well, these are the forms, the look he puts on jewelry and on the wearer.” I think it really taught me, even at that point. So, I got in contact with her. I did an internship with her for three months, and that’s when we prepared the exhibition. At the exhibition, they were paying her a visit.   Sharon: You said that was your first contact with contemporary jewelry, in Lisbon?   Ilona: Yeah, I would say so. I had a wonderful master to follow through my apprenticeship, very extraordinary pieces, only one-of-a-kind pieces. That was something completely spectacular and very generous. He is a wonderful person. I’m very grateful that I could work with him, that I could have this first contact with jewelry with him. But if you have such a strong master, it’s really important to find your own way of working, your own way of seeking, of questioning, to have your critical eye on your own work. It was important to me to go abroad and do something completely different, to jump into the cold water and to find my own task.   Sharon: Were you able to do that in going abroad?   Ilona: I guess so, yes. It was great. It was a wonderful time there, very special. It was the first time I was really imposing some limits or—how do you say—subjects and restrictions. I gave myself restrictions in my work to make it go to the essence of what I wanted to do, where I wanted to go while working, just getting step-by-step closer to what I really seek.   Sharon: Up until that time, did you look at antique jewelry, vintage jewelry, other kinds of jewelry?   Ilona: Yes, I did. I always thought it was really beautiful and touching, the care that was put into these incredible pieces and what they represented, not only for the person who wore it, but also for the people who saw it. It has this important symbolism, this important status, and this non-verbal communication to really tell things about yourself and your status with pieces.   I needed this freedom that jewelry can offer, or that the material and the body can offer, to seek something else. I thought it was beautiful and I appreciated it, but it was not really an inspiration. For example, my master, when I did the apprenticeship, was working with incredible stones. It was very spectacular and colorful and joyful. To find my own way, and so I didn’t continue doing his work, I restricted myself by saying, “Don’t do pieces with stones. No stones.” That was maybe my first restriction.   Sharon: So, you didn’t do anything with stones until now.   Ilona: Yes.   Sharon: Did he use a lot of stones?   Ilona: Yeah, incredible. It’s very colorful, exceptional stones. Like many stone cutters, like the most knowing ones, the most famous ones, they have with the most exceptional stones, first of all. His studio designed the very best stones, and then they went to other places. So, it was really old and very big.   Sharon: Do you show the stuff your master does in the gallery?   Ilona: Quite a while ago, we did a group exhibition and he was invited. He participated, and that was really nice.   Sharon: Do you have different kinds of exhibitions of jewelers that you didn’t know before you picked them for your exhibitions?   Ilona: Yeah. For example, for the 25th anniversary, we worked with five great artists of 25 years, five very exceptional artists. The first man is Sigurd Bronger, a Norwegian artist, who had a solo show at the in Munich in the spring of 2024. So, they were very excited that he’s in the show. He’s from Norway. Katrin Feulner from Germany, and a Korean artist, Ji Hee Hong, also someone we never worked with before.   Eric Loubser from South Africa is the only we’ve already worked with. In 2021, we organized a big double exhibition which was called Tangible Dialogue with 11 Japanese artists that are based in Japan. These 11 artists showed their work here in Lausanne. That was a wonderful, great exhibition. It was a very nice event. The year after, 11 Swiss jewelry artists were showing their work in Tokyo. So, we had this double exhibition, and that was where we had the first contact with Shinji Nakaba. So, we’re really happy that he’s in the show for 25 years now.   Sharon: Wow! What were your trepidations? Were you nervous about having people in the show that you hadn’t worked with before?   Ilona: That’s a very good question. It’s very exciting. We are really looking forward to setting up the show and organizing everything and then celebrating. Once you get the parcel and open it, it’s always this incredible discovery. If it’s the first time you’ve worked with somebody and you discover the piece, if it’s the first time you’ve touched it, you can see that it’s round and see the volume and the details, it’s always a very special moment. It’s very emotional.   Sharon: How do you find all these people?   Ilona: Schmuck in Munich. We’re so lucky, and I guess the whole jewelry world is so lucky, that it exists with such great enthusiasm and this great dynamic, and also this incredible quality. I think this is something very exceptional. The

What you’ll learn in this episode:   What triggered Gabi’s obsession with spoons Why the most elementary shapes are the perfect canvas for exploration How Gabi uses wax to create her pieces Why Gabi never polishes the spoons she creates, and why there is beauty in imperfection Why there is no time limit to study and make jewelry   About Gabi Veit Gabi Veit is an Italian artist and jewelry designer with a passion for spoons. She lives and works in Bozen/Südtirol/Italia and in Aesch/Zürich/Switzerland. Having grown up in South Tyrol, she creates jewelry that celebrates the rough and jagged shapes and outlines of her home country’s rocks and mountains. Her unique spoons surprise the beholder with unusual shapes borrowed from plant life.   Additional Resources: Gabi’s Website Gabi’s Instagram   Photos Available on TheJewelryJourney.com   Transcript: A spoon is one of the most basic objects we have: a line and a circle, designed for everyday use. In this simplicity, jewelry artist Gabi Veit saw a world of possibilities. She joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about how she started making spoons; why no two of her spoons are alike, even in a set; and why she is living proof that it’s never too late to study jewelry and design. Read the episode transcript here.  Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the second part of a two-part episode. If you haven’t heard part one, please head to TheJewelryJourney.com.   Gabi Veit’s work is definitely different than any other you will encounter. She makes jewelry, yes, but for the past few years, she has been very taken with spoons. It’s for a variety of reasons that I will let her tell you about. Welcome back.   Does the museum advertise your work? Do they promote it?   Gabi: Yes, they do. It’s not only my work in this case. There are 50 other artists who are showing their work. This exhibition is made to show the clients, the people, what’s happening now, what artisans and artists are doing at this moment. There are museums for applied art which are doing this. It’s a nice, ambient atmosphere there.   Sharon: Do you ever feel a little envious of what other people are doing? Do you look at their work and think, “I should try that”?   Gabi: It’s very interesting. Maybe because I started so late. I started with jewelry when I was 40. When I entered into this exhibition, when I had the possibility to have this exhibition, it was more, “Oh look, what does she do?” I’m in a wonderland when I’m exhibiting with colleagues, and I’m happy to have the opportunity to be part of this community. I’m more happy than envious. No, I’m not envious. I’m not an envious woman, I think.   Sharon: You don’t seem like you are. You were in advertising and graphic design before this. What made you decide to go into jewelry?   Gabi: I always wear jewelry. I always loved jewelry. When I was 26, I was always thinking about doing an apprenticeship in my region, but they said, “No, you are 26. You are too old to do that.” I believed I was too old, and I did my work. I also founded a theater in my hometown. I was completely—how can say it—I was most happy with my life. There were so many nice things going on in my life that I somehow forgot this wish. Then this wish came again, and I started giving workshops. I was thinking, “Oh, I need to know more. I need to learn the techniques.” So, I went to Florence. I was there for three years at Alchimia to study contemporary jewelry.   Sharon: When you say you gave workshops, did you give workshops in design or jewelry?   Gabi: I was a student of workshops.   Sharon: Oh, O.K.   Gabi: Now, I give workshops, but then I was the student.   Sharon: I read that in 2016, you gave a workshop in Edinburgh with two other Italians.   Gabi: No, this was a symposium. We were invited. Maria Garza, Gigi Mariani and I were invited to go to Edinburgh to meet other artists and to work together for one week. It was an interesting experience for all of us. Then we worked for a year at home, and then we made an exhibition about our experience.   Sharon: What was interesting about the experience? What was interesting to you?   Gabi: For me, it was very interesting that we went to the sea on the first day together. I noticed all the others were familiar with the waves and the sea. I had a lot of respect for the water, and I was also noticing that the water was bringing something. It was bringing shells and also garbage. You can stay there and the water brings you treasures, but if you grow up in the mountains, treasures are never floating directly on your feet. When you are in the mountains, you have to climb them. When you go down, you have to do it by yourself. I was like, “Oh, wow! There is another way to get inspiration.”   Sharon: Did you make some spoons from that idea?   Gabi: I made spoons out of shells I found there.   Sharon: What did they get out of it? What do you think they saw, Gigi Mariani and the other person?   Gabi: It was not the first moment, but it was a very intense moment for us Italians that the sea was also bringing refugees and dead refugees. Gigi and Maria Garza were dealing with these arguments, with these dead bodies and with these people who have the hope to get a better life that sometimes die in the sea. That was their way to look at the sea in this moment.   Sharon: You also make bowls. Two bowls of jewelry, I mean.   Gabi: Yeah.   Sharon: Do your bowls ever go with the spoons? Do you make a set?   Gabi: I’ve never made a set until now. They are good to combine, but I never did it as a combination from the moment I started.   Sharon: Has anybody that collects your things ever commissioned you and said, “I want five spoons and six bowls,” like a dinner set?   Gabi: No, that would be so nice. Please, if I received that, I would like to do that.   Sharon: You would do it?   Gabi: Yes, sure. That’s very interesting. Maybe I can tell the person that the pieces I make are not always the same. If you say, “I want to have 12 spoons,” they are not completely the same. Maybe they are a family, but like in a family, there are different characters. My work is all about unique pieces and not multiples.   Sharon: Do you ever tell people when they say, “What should I do with this? Do you hang it around your neck or a belt or something?” Do they hang it on a wall?   Gabi: Yes, there are a lot of people who say, “Oh, it’s so nice, this spoon. It could be a brooch.” Then I say, “No, sorry, that’s not a brooch, it’s a spoon. If you want to have this as a brooch, I would make it again, not in a spoony way, but in a brooch way. So, it becomes a real brooch, not only an object with—"   Sharon: A pin or something.   Gabi: Yeah. The spoon is born as a spoon. A spoon is a spoon is a spoon. There are people who put my spoons on the table only to look at them, but also on the wall. That happens.   Sharon: Do you have to hold yourself back if you think, “Well, I should polish it more.” A lot of your stuff is oxidized or it’s rough. Do you think, “I should polish it to make it shine”?   Gabi: I never polish. I really don’t polish, never, never. I know that in tableware, traditional spoons are shiny. But when they are made out of silver or sterling silver, they never could stay this shiny because they will oxidize anyhow. It’s impossible to get silver always in the same color and always shiny. I don’t want to go against the material. I like this Japanese idea of beauty, wabi-sabi, where the beauty is not made out of a perfect thing, but it’s made when an object is used, when an object maybe has an error, when an object oxidizes or has a part which is more shiny on one side. I really like this way to treat my work.   Sharon: Did you study in Japan?   Gabi: No. I would like to go to Japan.   Sharon: I know you’ve studied at different places. Where else have you studied besides Switzerland and Italy?   Gabi: I never studied in Switzerland. I studied graphic design in Austria. I studied graphic design also in Venice, in Italy, and then in Florence. I was not in other countries. In Germany, I did some workshops, but no other studies.   Sharon: When people ask you to do workshops, do they want you to show how to do the spoons?   Gabi: They are interested in working with wax, which I show them. There are so many different ways to treat wax. When the outcome is a spoon, I’m happy, but when the outcome is—I don’t know—a necklace part, a ring or an object, that’s also O.K. The participants of my workshop come with different ideas, and this is what I like. Maybe they are intrigued by my spoons or by my jewelry pieces, but it’s about their language and not about my language.   Sharon: Have you ever inspired somebody who has been told they were too old to do it, and then they went on and did it anyway because you went against the grain? Do you ever meet anybody who was told they’re too old to change fields—or not to change fields, but to do this and you’ve inspired them? You’ve said, “No, that’s not true.”   Gabi: I always say to everyone, “It’s not true.” I think you can do everything when you want. It doesn’t need to be radical. It can be an hour a day or an hour a week. You can achieve change or achieve things in many different ways.   Sharon: Why do you say that a spoon is a subject of experimentation and interaction? You’ve said that. Why is that?   Gabi: For me, the spoon is a big field of experimentation. There are moments when I’m having a hike or a walk and I see a spoon everywhere. Somehow, a tree is a spoon formally. It’s about my imagination and what I can see in whatever I watch. I also think the spoon theme is not finished. It never finishes because there are so many possibilities. Maybe that could be an explanation.   Then, for me, spoons are needed for cooking and scooping and eating. Eating in itself is an interaction and communication. I think the best way to talk to each other is to sit around the table and eat together. I’m sure there i

What you’ll learn in this episode:   What triggered Gabi’s obsession with spoons Why the most elementary shapes are the perfect canvas for exploration How Gabi uses wax to create her pieces Why Gabi never polishes the spoons she creates, and why there is beauty in imperfection Why there is no time limit to study and make jewelry   About Gabi Veit Gabi Veit is an Italian artist and jewelry designer with a passion for spoons. She lives and works in Bozen/Südtirol/Italia and in Aesch/Zürich/Switzerland. Having grown up in South Tyrol, she creates jewelry that celebrates the rough and jagged shapes and outlines of her home country’s rocks and mountains. Her unique spoons surprise the beholder with unusual shapes borrowed from plant life.   Additional Resources: Gabi’s Website Gabi’s Instagram   Photos Available on TheJewelryJourney.com   Transcript: A spoon is one of the most basic objects we have: a line and a circle, designed for everyday use. In this simplicity, jewelry artist Gabi Veit saw a world of possibilities. She joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about how she started making spoons; why no two of her spoons are alike, even in a set; and why she is living proof that it’s never too late to study jewelry and design. Read the episode transcript here. Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the first part of a two-part episode. Please make sure you subscribe so you can hear part two as soon as it’s released later this week.   Gabi Veit’s work is definitely different than any other you will encounter. She makes jewelry, yes, but for the past few years, she has been very taken with spoons. It’s for a variety of reasons that I will let her tell you about. She grew up in an area which I would call rough, in that the landscape is rough. It is filled with jagged edges, which I think you will see in her jewelry and spoons. Her work also calls on the organic with branches and leaves incorporated in her work. Gabi also has an unusual perspective on the world. She’s the first person to show me a PowerPoint without having a PowerPoint, which is very interesting and creative. Gabi, welcome to the podcast.   Gabi: Thank you very much for having me.   Sharon: I’m so glad you’re here. Gabi is talking to us from Switzerland, right?   Gabi: Yeah.   Sharon: I’m not familiar with the Dolomites. You were born there and you return on a regular basis. Can you tell me about them and how they influenced your jewelry?   Gabi: Yes, I’m sitting in Switzerland now, but my home base—I was born in Italy, in the Dolomites. I grew up in the outskirts of Bolzano, which is a city with 100,000 inhabitants. The mountains surround the city completely. If you wanted to, you could take three different cable cars to go up to the mountains. I saw mountains every day, always, and we went hiking every weekend. Somehow the mountains for me, the Dolomites, are my home. They symbolize vastness and mightiness. They are powerful and dangerous somehow, but they are also cozy for me. I am familiar with these mountains.   Sharon: Did you have to take cable cars most places you went, let’s say to school or the grocery store?   Gabi: No, the city is down at 250 meters. My city is very hot in the summer, so to escape this heat, you take a cable car and go up 1,000 meters in 12 minutes. Then you are in a nice, warm but not hot area with forest and with animals. The city is like a city, but it’s surrounded by mountains, and these mountains are very near. You can’t not see them, so I am used to orienting myself by looking at the mountains. I know one is in the east; the other is in the north. I’m completely lost when I don’t have mountains around.   Sharon: Can you tell us what influenced your development of spoons? It’s so unusual.   Gabi: Not really. The spoon thing started with—I have two stories. One is that I like to eat and I like to cook, so you need a spoon at least. You need more than one spoon to eat and cook. The other story is that I was in South America. After this trip, I showed a friend my treasures that I brought with me, and she said, “Oh, you are collecting spoons now.” I denied it, but she replied, “But look, there are seven spoons, and seven spoons is a collection.” So, I started to be interested in the spoon as an object, and I started to collect the spoons. Now I have more than 800 pieces.   I started as a collector, not as a maker. I was looking everywhere for spoons: at the market, at the flea market. My collection of spoons is out of wood and metal and plastics and glass and bone and horns. It’s so interesting to see how spoons are used. They have holes when you need to take olives out of the salamoia. They are big or small. It depends on the purpose. That was my entrance into the spoon world.   Sharon: You said that it’s very simple. It’s an elementary shape. What makes your spoons so unusual? What’s different about your spoons?   Gabi: I think when I started to do spoons, I was not aware that my spoons were special. I was driven first to understand how I can do spoons. Normally, when I don’t know where or how to start, I start with a restriction. As I like to eat, as I told you, and as I also like to observe people, I noticed that people have different behaviors when they eat. Someone eats very fast; the other looks more at the plate of his neighbor and not at his plate. I was thinking that maybe I should start doing spoons for people that have strange behaviors.   As I grew up in an area where Catholicism was very strong, for me, it was simple to think about the seven deadly sins, because they concentrate all behaviors in seven ways. So, I started to explore these seven sins. I was driven by finding a solution for a spoon which doesn’t help you eat well somehow. I think when someone wants it all and wants it all now, maybe you don’t eat very well; you don’t have the pleasure to eat. I did this research for one year. I did a lot of forms which were not completely perfect for this aim, but they were beautiful. That was the starting point to get a lot of different forms.   For sure, there is a second very important thing for me. That’s nature. So, on the one side is the behavior of people, and on the other side there is nature, which I also observe a lot. As I grew up in a plant nursery, I am very familiar with growing and with how a plant finds its way to get its fruits somehow. Maybe I’ve been observing plants since I was a child.   Sharon: But there are spoons that have leaves; they have twigs; they have all kinds of natural things.   Gabi: Yeah, they have. It’s all looking. I can also explain, as you said before, the spoon is a very simple tool. It’s made of one line and one circle. The circle is the bowl and the line is the handle, but nobody tells me that a circle has to be round or a line has to be straight. When I started to think about this, I was able to make a lot of variation. This is also a way to start from a very simple form. It’s easier to find a lot of variations.   Sharon: Have you made a spoon with a square or a different kind of bowl?   Gabi: Yeah.   Sharon: Did you develop these theories from the beginning of making spoons, or did they come to you as you were developing spoons?   Gabi: Both. Somehow by observing a spoon, observing how I take it in my hand and how I put it in my mouth, every day I do research on the spoon. There are theories I read and there are experiences I made. That’s a long process because I started collecting in 2001 and started making in 2006. So, there is a long experience in dealing with this tool.   Sharon: I read somewhere that you incorporate stones in everything. Is that true?   Gabi: Not really. If you mean a precious stone, I don’t use stones. I don’t use precious stones. When I go for a walk, I always pick up stones. I’m happy to see a nice stone, but maybe in my jewelry, I make my own stones.   Sharon: In your necklaces and your rings, you make your own stones. What do you mean?   Gabi: I normally work with wax. This is my main material. When I work with wax, I can form it in different ways. I can cut; I can carve it. Somehow, I carve my stones. I cut my stones, but afterwards they are cast in metal. There are only two stones I use in my jewelry. One is the garnet from my region, which I incorporate in my jewelry. For two or three years I have used rough diamonds for my jewelry, not for my spoons. My spoons are always without stones, but the jewelry has these two stones sometimes.   Sharon: The garnets from the Dolomite region, are they red? Are they green?   Gabi: They are red.   Sharon: I didn’t see any stones in any of your work that you showed.   Gabi: I did a collection. The name is Rose Garden. In my hometown, you look at the mountain of the Dolomites, the name of which is Rose Garden. When the sun goes down in the evening, it becomes pink. There is an old legend that a king lived there in this rose garden, and that he kidnapped a princess because he was in love with her. He wanted to have her in his palace, but she didn’t want to, so he kidnapped her. Her brother and other knights found her only because they knew he had a rose garden. The rose garden somehow gave them the direction and they were able to liberate her. The king was so mad about his rose garden that he said, “You will never bloom again, neither by day nor by night,” but he forgot the morning and the evening. So, these mountain blooms glow really pinkish in the evening. It’s beautiful. Somehow the garnets I found in my region in South Tyrol, they also have this red shine. So, I called this collection Rose Garden.   Sharon: If you pick up a regular stone, a rock stone, do you come home and throw it in a drawer and say, “Maybe I’ll use it someday”? Or do you have an idea?   Gabi: Not yet. There are some collections based on the form of a stone, maybe. You can see that. But in this moment, I’m not so into these stones, I think. But it’s also true that next year on, I want to d

What you’ll learn in this episode:   How Esther’s experiences in China and India continue to influence her work today Why different materials have different meanings, and how that impacts the wearer Why the relationship between a jewelry artist and a customer is particularly special and intimate How wearing jewelry influences the way we move through the world The most important qualities a jewelry teacher should have   About Esther Brinkmann Esther Brinkmann is an independent jewelry maker living and working in Switzerland. Her work has been exhibited in galleries throughout the world and is held in the collections of the National Museum of Switzerland, Musée des Arts Décoratifs in Paris, Museo Internazionale delle Arti Applicate Oggi (MIAAO) in Torino, and the V&A in London. She established the Haute École d’Art et de Design (HEAD) in Geneva, the first jewelry education program of its kind in the country.   Additional Resources: Esther’s Website Esther’s Instagram Photos Available on TheJewelryJourney.com  Transcript:   Jewelry artist Esther Brinkmann makes her rings with intention, considering everything from the meaning of the material used to the way the shape of the ring will change how the wearer moves their hands. She has passed this perspective down to hundreds of students at the Haute École d’Art et de Design (HEAD), the jewelry program she founded in Geneva. She joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about how living in China and India made her question her identity and influenced her work; why many of her rings are designed to fit different sized hands; and what makes the relationship between artist and wearer so special. Read the episode transcript here. Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the second part of a two-part episode. If you haven’t heard part one, please head to TheJewelryJourney.com.   I recently went to Switzerland with Art Jewelry Forum. One of the afternoons we had was at Esther Brinkmann’s home. It was a very memorable lunch and afternoon. We got to see her studio, and on top of that, we had an unforgettable luncheon cooked by her husband, Warner. Welcome back.   Do you think you were taken by the design, the motifs and everything, because you’re a designer? For instance, would I be taken by it?   Esther: You would be marveled by all these beautiful things, and you would love to buy these things, but maybe you would not have the desire to do your own designs, whereas I immediately got the desire to introduce these new inspirations. I was really stimulated to introduce these things in my own designs and to evolve to develop new ideas.   Sharon: For those of us that were interested in the enamel rings, I think you said we had to be careful if we dropped them or banged them. They were like glass.   Esther: Yeah, enamel is a glass-like material. It certainly it is not the best idea to make rings with enamel, but I could not resist. As I love rings, I just had to do a few of those rings. This was a period when I did realize maybe 20 of those rings, but they are difficult to sell because they are difficult to wear. You have deal with them very carefully.   Sharon: What other jewelry did you make while you were there?   Esther: In India, besides these enamel rings, besides this collaboration, I also started to do pieces with some stones. I discovered, for instance, the polki diamond in India. You can find it only in India. It’s a diamond; let’s say it is not the best quality. It’s a piece of diamond with many, many cracks. They split it into very thin plates, very roughly faceted, not as we have the idea of a diamond with many, many facets. It is a very flat stone with a lot of cracks. It looks like broken ice or something like that. I love this kind of diamond. I started to make rings with that. I also started to purchase a number of not very precious stones, like peridots or topaz, etc. I started to introduce stones as a color element in rings especially.   Sharon: They call them polki diamonds? How would you spell that?   Esther: P-O-L-K-I. This might be the Hindi word for this specific diamond, but when you put it on Google, you can find it.   Sharon: That’s interesting. From what you’re describing, it’s what we consider Indian diamonds. Along with the monograph that was put out by Arnoldsche for some of your exhibits, you also have a book that just came out about your jewelry.   Esther: Yes.   Sharon: A lot of it describes jewelry provoking feelings or provoking people. Could you talk about that a little? How do you see it provoking people?   Esther: I think this is the main reason why I am so interested in jewelry, because jewelry is something I create. I make a piece that has a relationship to a body, to a person. I don’t know who the person wearing my piece will be. That depends on my practice. I work with galleries, but I create a piece with the idea that another person will choose it, and this person will wear it. This person will be like an ambassador of what I have created. This person will adopt what I have created for herself. She or he will wear it and show it, will translate it to others around her or him.   That is a very special thing, a very special relationship between an artist and a customer or a collector. When you buy a sculpture, the sculpture will have a relationship to a space, to your garden or your living room, but a piece of jewelry is something very intimate. When a collector buys something I have created, it’s not mine anymore. I am absolutely comfortable and very at ease with this idea, to give this away. What I know and what makes it so rich is that this person will adopt something and use it as an intimate mirror of her thoughts, of her emotions, of her mind, of her attitude. I think this is a very special thing. The piece of jewelry influences our gestures, especially the big rings. They influence our gestures. They influence our body language. We experience our body in a different way when we wear a piece of jewelry.   Sharon: Any piece or are you talking about larger, significant pieces?   Esther: No, any piece, any. I’m talking now about any piece.   Sharon: Oh, wow! That’s something to think about. You mentioned that you make the rings in gold and jade and silver. Do they have different meanings, the different materials?   Esther: Absolutely. I think any material has its own meaning. Of course, gold, silver and jade are so-called precious materials. They are considered by everybody as precious. I like them not because they are considered precious worldwide, but I like to work with them because of other qualities. For instance, gold and silver are very plastic materials. You can hammer volumes out of a flat sheet of gold or silver. You cannot do this with a simple hammer and iron, for instance, but gold and silver have these plastic qualities.   Then, of course, the color is a very important aspect. The weight of silver is very tender. Yellow gold is much stronger. I also know that silver is linked in many, many cultures to the moon and the feminine, and gold is linked to the sun and to the male aspect in us. Whether we know it or not, it is like an ancestral knowing that is within us and that we can feel. That’s also why different people are attracted by different materials. Not everybody likes to wear gold. Not everybody is able to have a big ring made of gold because it’s a statement you make.   Sharon: Do you think you’re influenced in these thoughts by your living abroad or living in different cultures?   Esther: I think so, yes. Of course, I learned a lot. For instance, jade has a strong symbolic meaning in China and for the Chinese culture. It’s a very strong material, which we may not understand immediately, only if we learn about it. I think living in other areas of the world, you become sensitive to how different materials are used. As a person who likes to transform material into something, into an object, or to transform very simple materials like a thread or a string into something precious, into something which has a specific character, it gives you another relationship to different materials. I choose my materials very consciously by what I want to transmit as a feeling.   Sharon: Would you call yourself a jeweler?   Esther: Yes, absolutely. I’m a jewelry maker, yes.   Sharon: I guess a jewelry maker is different than a jeweler. I have my own understanding of what a jeweler is. You’re a jewelry maker.   Esther: I have to say English is not my language. I might not make the difference between jeweler and jewelry maker. I know the difference between a jewelry maker and a designer. I’m not a designer because I make things myself. I create and I make. I realize things myself. So, I’m not a designer. I don’t consider myself a designer.   Sharon: What possessed you to start a whole department in Geneva, a jewelry department at the university there?   Esther: That was a very happy, glad circumstance. It was in the beginning of 1980. Switzerland joined the European Space for Higher Education. Art schools and schools for applied arts were things then, not universities. They had no universities for art. In the beginning of 1980, we joined the European Space for Higher Education. At the school where I studied between 1974 and 1978, and where I started to teach in 1982, we, the teachers, were asked to make a proposal for a new education program.   At that time, I was already very active as an independent jewelry maker. I could participate in international exhibitions, and I absolutely wanted to open a department for experimental and art jewelry in Geneva because we didn’t have that. We had this excellent program for luxury jewelry. That is what I learned. For four years, I had this education for luxury jewelry, and I thought it was the time in Switzerland, and especially in the French-speaking part of Switzerland. In this very luxurious environment, we needed something breaking this up. This is another

What you’ll learn in this episode:   How Esther’s experiences in China and India continue to influence her work today Why different materials have different meanings, and how that impacts the wearer Why the relationship between a jewelry artist and a customer is particularly special and intimate How wearing jewelry influences the way we move through the world The most important qualities a jewelry teacher should have   About Esther Brinkmann Esther Brinkmann is an independent jewelry maker living and working in Switzerland. Her work has been exhibited in galleries throughout the world and is held in the collections of the National Museum of Switzerland, Musée des Arts Décoratifs in Paris, Museo Internazionale delle Arti Applicate Oggi (MIAAO) in Torino, and the V&A in London. She established the Haute École d’Art et de Design (HEAD) in Geneva, the first jewelry education program of its kind in the country.   Additional Resources: Esther’s Website Esther’s Instagram Photos Available on TheJewelryJourney.com  Transcript:   Jewelry artist Esther Brinkmann makes her rings with intention, considering everything from the meaning of the material used to the way the shape of the ring will change how the wearer moves their hands. She has passed this perspective down to hundreds of students at the Haute École d’Art et de Design (HEAD), the jewelry program she founded in Geneva. She joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about how living in China and India made her question her identity and influenced her work; why many of her rings are designed to fit different sized hands; and what makes the relationship between artist and wearer so special. Read the episode transcript here.   Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the first part of a two-part episode. Please make sure you subscribe so you can hear part two as soon as it’s released later this week.   I recently went to Switzerland with Art Jewelry Forum. One of the afternoons we had was at Esther Brinkmann’s home. It was a very memorable lunch and afternoon. We got to see her studio, and on top of that, we had an unforgettable luncheon cooked by her husband, Warner. Esther’s work is very well known, although it’s not known so much here. It is found in prestigious museums. She was influenced by culture, especially in India and China, where she lived for more than 20 years with her diplomat husband. We also met a collectors’ club, the Magpies, which you’ll hear about. She’ll talk more about her philosophy and her jewelry. Esther, welcome to the podcast.   Esther: Thank you very much, Sharon, for inviting me to talk about my practice as an artist and as an educator. Thank you.   Sharon: You’re welcome. I’m glad you’re here. I was going to ask you why you think there are only certain areas of the world where your jewelry is known. For instance, I don’t think it’s known here. I don’t know it. I haven’t seen the jewelry here. If somebody said to me, “It’s an Esther Brinkmann piece,” I wouldn’t know what that meant.   Esther: That’s a difficult question. I guess it’s because I have never been collaborating with an American gallery, although I think I have a few pieces in American collections. My focus was, for many years, on European countries. As you were saying, we were living in China and India for 10 years, so I could show my work in those two countries. But America, it was a little bit far away, I think.   Sharon: Do you have more work in China and India and Europe than other places? I guess I’m asking that about China and India. Is your work more well-known there?   Esther: China and India are huge countries with numbers and numbers and millions and millions of people. I’m not very known in those two countries, but I am known in different universities, in different cities, as an ambassador for jewelry. When I was living in China and in India, I was given the opportunity to have a lot of lectures and workshops with students there, so I could introduce this idea, which was quite a western idea of artisan jewelry. In India as in China, it was not at all a topic.   Sharon: The lectures or conferences you had, was it because you were part of a school? Was it just private?   Esther: No, it was because when we lived in those two countries, I contacted different universities that had jewelry departments or fashion departments, design departments, and I offered to give lectures and workshops about art jewelry. I was welcomed with open arms.   Sharon: So, you basically made your niche, I want to say. You created it. You weren’t asked, but you created it.   Esther: I would not say I created it, but I participated, and I stimulated young people in those two countries to go into individual creative and experimental jewelry. Things happen also because there is something in the air. The time was right to do that, and they were interested in it.   Sharon: If you had come 20 or 10 years earlier, would they have been interested?   Esther: I don’t think so.   Sharon: Your favorite piece, the one most written about, is a ring that’s a double ring. It’s not made of two rings, but it’s comprised of two rings.   Esther: Yes.   Sharon: How did that come about?   Esther: That came in the early 80s, when I started as an independent jewelry maker. It was the trend at that time. All of us tried to make multiple pieces. That means a big number of pieces, inexpensive pieces, for everybody. At that time, I had the idea of a ring. It was made of an industrially made aluminum tube with an incision on top where I introduced a rubber ring. This ring could regulate the size of the inner hole. I realized that I created this ring for a functional reason. Many people could wear the same ring and they filled the same space more or less.   At that time, I suddenly realized how interesting it is to have a ring with space around the finger. I focused on this concept, on this idea, and developed many different other shapes from then on. That’s how the double ring came, a ring which is too big for your finger and a second ring which is open. The tubular ring is open and leaves space around the finger, and you fit in a second, smaller ring which holds the thing on your finger. That is quite complicated to explain.   Sharon: I didn’t understand the big ring was supposed to be big and the little ring—   Esther: The big ring is too large for your finger. The smaller ring inside fits and is held back on your finger. It’s an aesthetic decision, but it’s also functional because the bigger ring can be worn again by many different sizes of hands because the smaller ring fits inside. I can adapt to different sizes.   Sharon: Do you have blanks you use, where you cut and these rings are this size and these rings are this size?   Esther: With the many years of experience I have, I know more or less the range of sizes of rings and fingers. I know, for instance, that women in China usually have very small hands and fingers, whereas in Holland, women have much bigger hands. Also in America, you have bigger hands and taller people. I don’t send very, very small rings to Holland, for instance. This is the experience of many, many years. So, you get a feeling for what range of sizes is fitting to different women.   Sharon: Why do you think it is that different nationalities have different size hands?   Esther: I think it’s not about nationalities; it’s about the body shape.   Sharon: I tried on one of your rings which actually fits. You could slip a ring underneath it. I was surprised because I have large hands and mostly, they don’t fit me. I was really surprised. You started making those rings when?   Esther: I started around 1985, something like that. That makes a long period of time.   Sharon: What did you do with the rings or the jewelry when you were in China? Did you just keep on?   Esther: In the beginning, I was a little bit lost, not in translation, but lost in this very different culture. I had many, many experiences of being the alien within a huge group of other people. That was a very special experience for me. That’s when I had the idea to create this series of brooches called “Red Face and Double.” That was really a Chinese idea. I would not have had this idea elsewhere.   I had the idea of the “Red Face” because I was wondering, “How do these people perceive me? How do they see me? I see them like this and like that, and they are looking at me; they are staring at me. Who am I for these people?” Also, I didn’t know anymore exactly who I was. There were a lot of questions. That’s how I started to draw these faces. I thought, “It’s a brooch; it’s like wearing another face of mine.” It’s like showing that I’m not a person who is only one. I am multiple. With different people, I might be a different person. I think that is a reality. It depends on with whom we are. We are different people. Luckily, we are not like a stone or something which would not change. That’s how I got the idea of those brooches wearing another face.   Sharon: Do you think people understood what you were trying to do?   Esther: I think so. I think they could feel that it has something to do with who we are and how we see each other, how we look at the world, how flexible we are or what our competences to adapt in certain circumstances are, etc. What was certainly surprising for them was to see that you could express such ideas in a piece of jewelry. That was completely new for them. That was something very—not disturbing, but it was somehow questioning them.   Sharon: Did anybody ever say to you, “That’s unusual,” or “That is really making me think twice,” or anything like that?   Esther: Many people said it is unusual. I had a lovely experience with a very young student. They came to see my first exhibition in Guangzhou in the south of China. I explained to them about this idea of having another face on me, and she said, “But you know, you are new here. I’ve lived in Guangzhou for 20 years and I have ne

What you’ll learn in this episode:   Which essential jewelry books you should have in your library Why books are so much more reliable than internet research when it comes to gemstones and jewelry Why the Renaissance opened up a new world of adornment An overview of the periods of jewelry and how they overlapped and influenced one another How cultural turning points, like World War II and the South African diamond rush, influenced what materials were used during different time periods   About Jo Ellen Cole Jo Ellen Cole is the owner of Cole Appraisal Services and the director of fine jewelry at Abell Auctions. She earned her Graduate Gemologist Diploma at the Gemological Institute of America in Santa Monica and successfully passed the prestigious Gemological Association of Great Britain’s FGA examinations.   Additional resources: LinkedIn Gemological and Jewelry Books for a Professional Library:   GEMOLOGICAL IDENTIFICATION BOOKS Gemstones: Their Sources, Descriptions and Identification, Webster, Robert Gem Testing, Anderson, Basil Handbook of Gemstone Identification, Liddicoat Jr., Richard T. Gem and Ornamental Materials of Organic Origin, Pedersen, Maggie Campbell Gemstones of the World, Schumann, Walter Photoatlas of Inclusions in Gemstones, Vols. 1, 2 and 3, Gubelin, Edward and Koivula, John Color Encyclopedia of Gemstones, Arem, Joel The Spectroscope and Gemmology, Anderson, Basil and Payne, James, edited by Mitchell, R. Keith   GENERAL REFERENCE Gemology, An Annotated Bibliography, Sinkankas, John The Complete Handbook for Gemstone Weight Estimation, Carmona, Charles Dictionary of Gems and Gemology, Shipley, Robert The Jewelers Manual, Liddicoat Jr., Richard T. and Copeland, Lawrence L. Gemstone and Mineral Data Book, Sinkankas, John     DIAMONDS Diamonds, Bruton, Eric Diamond Cutting: Complete Guide to Cutting Diamonds, Watermeyer, Basil Famous Diamonds, Balfour, Ian Hardness 10, Vleeschdrager, Eddy Diamond Handbook, Newman, Renee Laboratory Grown Diamonds, Simic, Dusan and Deljanin, Branko Fluorescence as a Tool for Diamond Origin Identification – A Guide, Chapman, John, Deljanin, Branko and Spyromilios, George PEARLS Book of the Pearl, Kunz, George F. and Stevenson, Charles Hugh Pearls, Strack, Elizabeth Beyond Price, Donkin, R.A.   JADE Jade, A Gemmologist’s Guide, Hughes, Richard Jade For You, Ng, John Y. and Root, Edmund   COLORED STONES Ruby and Sapphire, Hughes, Richard Emerald and Other Beryls, Sinkankas, John Opal Identification and Value, Downing, Paul   JEWELRY HISTORY Brilliant Effects, Pointon, Marcia Understanding Jewelry, Bennett, David, and Mascetti, Daniella Jewelry in America, Fales, Margha Gandy Victorian Jewellery, Flowers, Margaret Transcript: In appraiser Jo Ellen Cole’s opinion, the best thing a jewelry lover can have is a well-stocked library. Information on gems and jewelry abounds online today, but much of that information is incorrect. For that reason, Jo Ellen—a Graduate Gemologist who also passed Gem-A’s FGA examination—turns to books when she has a question about a specific piece, hallmark or stone. She joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to share which books she recommends for every jewelry interest; how jewelry trends shifted over the years due to cultural forces; and how to quickly identify the characteristics of different jewelry periods. Read the episode transcript here.