The 1958 Lawyer

Hiring your first employee feels like growth — until it turns into a lawsuit, an insurance nightmare, or a compliance mess you didn’t see coming. Today, Gary Savine joins us to talk about building a law firm that’s not just profitable, but protected, scalable, and actually sellable. Gary, let’s start here — what’s the biggest risk firms take before they even realize they’ve taken it?   Why should business owners involve an employment lawyer before making their first hire? What do most firms misunderstand about PEOs and co-employment arrangements? How can indemnity clauses quietly shift liability back to the business owner? What compliance risks come with offshoring employees or contractors? Why doesn’t labeling someone a “contractor” guarantee protection under foreign law? What exactly does EPLI cover — and what do most firms get wrong about their policies? Why can defense costs alone financially cripple a business? What does “eroding coverage” mean, and why does it matter as firms grow? What are insurers really looking for before offering strong EPLI coverage? How can updated policies, manager training, and recordkeeping lower both risk and premiums? What does it take to turn a solo practice into a scalable, saleable firm? Why is building systems now critical for layering AI and future growth? How is private equity changing the legal landscape? What mindset shift do younger attorneys need if they want long-term success?   That’s all for today! Big thanks to Gary Savine for breaking down the legal, insurance, and strategic foundations every firm needs to grow safely and sustainably. If you want to build a business that’s more than just “a lawyer with a desk,” this is an episode worth revisiting. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with a colleague who’s building their firm for the long haul. Thanks for listening, and we’ll see you next time.   About Gary Savine: Gary Noah Savine founded Savine Employment Law, Ltd. to help job creators manage and litigate employment-related legal issues so that they can stay focused on their businesses and protect what they have built. Gary brings more than two decades of legal expertise and hands-on experience, working around the globe, shoulder-to-shoulder with senior executives and human resource professionals, solving the thorniest of workplace issues. Gary received his law degree cum laude from the University of Michigan Law School and his Bachelor of Arts with high honors in Political Economy from James Madison College at Michigan State University.   Connect with Gary Savine: Website: https://savinelaw.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SavineEmploymentLaw/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/savine-employment-law-ltd./ X: https://twitter.com/savinelaw To contact Gary about a complimentary EPLI review, schedule time for a call with him at: https://calendly.com/riley-savinelaw/15min   Connect with Ron Bockstahler: Email: ronb@amataoffices.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ronbockstahler/ Company website: https://amatacorp.com/ “Don't Lose Your Balance” book: https://www.amazon.com/Dont-Lose-Your-Balance-Business/dp/1964046467   Show notes by Team Podcastologist Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

Alright, so you’re a lawyer trying to practice law in 2026—and every week there’s a new AI tool promising to draft your briefs, review your contracts, and maybe even run your firm while you sip coffee. Tempting? Sure. Terrifying? Also yes.Today, Ron Bockstahler sits down with Clinton Ind to talk about what AI actually means for the legal industry, how to use it aggressively for speed and efficiency, without risking your license, your reputation, or your sanity. Clinton, let’s start here: What can lawyers absolutely not afford to ignore about AI right now? Why is AI no longer optional for modern legal practice?Where should lawyers draw the line between efficiency and professional responsibility?How serious is the risk of hallucinated cases and bad citations—and how should attorneys protect themselves?How are tools like Lexis AI changing the way first drafts of pleadings and complaints are created?If AI makes work faster, why isn’t it reducing overall demand for lawyers?How can firms use AI for marketing, hiring, and back-office operations without losing control?What security and privacy questions should every attorney ask before trusting an AI vendor?Are legacy platforms like Lexis and Westlaw safe from disruption—or is the market shifting under their feet?How are clients using AI themselves, and how is that reshaping expectations around billing and efficiency?How is Amata positioning itself as a “COO” and AI filter to help small firms stay competitive?What’s the one principle lawyers should remember as AI becomes more embedded in everyday practice? That’s all for today! Big thanks to Clinton Ind for breaking down how law firms can embrace AI without abandoning diligence. The message is clear: use AI boldly for speed, first drafts, marketing, and operations—but verify everything and own whatever leaves your desk.If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with a colleague who’s trying to navigate AI without risking their license. Thanks for listening, and we’ll catch you next time! About Clint Ind: Clinton has recently transitioned his practice from a commercial litigator with his own law firm to in-house counsel with a growing distribution business at Quantum Polymers.  His new role is oriented around managing risk as the company expands while assisting with the business strategy and growth.Clint is a trial lawyer who has spent much of his career building law firms from the ground up. He has started his own firm twice, practiced solo for more than ten years, and worked in-house with multiple companies. He has taken numerous cases to trial and obtained multi-million-dollar judgments in both medical malpractice and commercial business cases.Clint has a deep respect for the entrepreneurial drive of solo and small-firm attorneys and understands firsthand the challenges of creating a successful, sustainable practice.When not working, Clint can usually be found boxing, mountain biking, or running his kids from one sports commitment to the next. Quantum Polymers: www.quantumpolymers.comConnect with Clint Ind:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clinton-jud-ind/ Connect with Ron Bockstahler:Email: ronb@amataoffices.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ronbockstahler/Company website: https://amatacorp.com/“Don't Lose Your Balance” book: https://www.amazon.com/Dont-Lose-Your-Balance-Business/dp/1964046467Show notes by Team PodcastologistAudio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

Running a law firm is hard enough. Running one that serves underserved communities—without burning out or drowning in billable hours—takes a whole different kind of thinking. Today, Ricardo joins us to talk about building a family law practice designed around access to justice, cultural competency, and sustainability. From flat fees and bilingual outreach to tech-enabled workflows and teaching the next generation, Ricardo is reimagining what a modern solo practice can look like. Ricardo, let’s start here—how did you decide to build your firm this way? How can underserved communities be served profitably through alternative fee models?Why does the billable-hour model fail many family law clients?What risks come with flat fees and limited-scope representation, and how can they be managed?Is there truly a lawyer shortage, and where is it most severe?Why does being bicultural matter as much as being bilingual in client representation?How can culturally relevant messaging build trust faster than language alone?How does a tech-enabled solo practice reduce overhead and increase sustainability?Why can automated intake outperform traditional phone-based lead handling?How can AI and automation support flat-fee work and work–life balance?Why do paralegals and support staff determine whether a practice succeeds or fails?What should lawyers evaluate before deciding to open a solo practice?Do you need significant capital or an entity to start a law firm?How can incubator programs help new solos survive their first year?What does a sustainable, family-centered long-term vision for a law practice look like? That’s all for today! A big thank you to Ricardo for sharing how lawyers can build practices that serve real community needs without sacrificing family, health, or sanity. We’re looking forward to having him back in 9–12 months to hear how the firm has grown, how the tech stack has evolved, and what life looks like after welcoming a new baby. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone thinking about going solo. Thanks for listening—we’ll catch you next time. About Ricardo Santiago: Ricardo Santiago is a family law attorney, professor, and legal speaker in Chicago. He speaks on topics that affect traditionally underserved communities in Illinois. Ricardo teaches in the ABA-approved paralegal program at Wilbur Wright College.  Connect with Ricardo Santiago:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ricardosantiagoj/Calendly: https://calendly.com/rsantiago-santiagolaw/professionals-meeting-request Connect with Ron Bockstahler:Email: ronb@amataoffices.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ronbockstahler/Company website: https://amatacorp.com/“Don't Lose Your Balance” book: https://www.amazon.com/Dont-Lose-Your-Balance-Business/dp/1964046467Show notes by Team PodcastologistAudio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

You spent decades in courtrooms, chasing justice, and suddenly you realize… the human stories behind contracts, criminal cases, and corporate disputes are what truly matter. Today, retired trial lawyer Pat Cotter joins us to reflect on a 43-year career spent standing for fairness, truth, and compassion—and why even “small” cases can leave a huge impact.Atty. Pat walks us through what it means to treat law as a pursuit of justice, how technology and AI are changing litigation, and why remembering the human side of every case keeps even the most seasoned attorneys grounded. How seeing law as a lifelong pursuit of justice keeps work meaningful, and clients prioritizedWhy even “small-dollar” cases can be life-changing for clients, and why effort matters more than perfectionHow commercial and criminal work alike carry a human impact behind every contract, dispute, or trialWhat massive technological change—from paper files to millions of emails—and AI mean for diligence and practice todayHow to maintain pride, ethics, and perspective over decades without succumbing to cynicism That’s all for today! Big thanks to Atty. Pat Cotter for sharing his insights on fairness, justice, and the human side of law. If you’re inspired by decades of courtroom experience and want to learn how law can be meaningful beyond the verdict, this episode is a must-listen. About Atty. Pat Cotter:Atty. Pat Cotter is a career trial lawyer with 43 years of experience spanning criminal prosecution, public defense, and private practice. He worked as a criminal prosecutor in the Eastern District of New York, including on the John Gotti case, later became a prominent defense attorney, and most recently defended a co-defendant of former Illinois House Speaker Michael Madigan in a four-month federal trial, securing a split jury verdict and eventual dismissal. Early in his career, Pat served as a public defender in Brooklyn, representing indigent clients. He recently retired, leaving the law with a legacy of wins, no more deadlines, and a career guided by fairness, truth, understanding, and compassion. Connect with Ron Bockstahler:Email: ronb@amataoffices.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ronbockstahler/Company website: https://amatacorp.com/“Don't Lose Your Balance” book: https://www.amazon.com/Dont-Lose-Your-Balance-Business/dp/1964046467 Show notes by Team PodcastologistAudio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

Let’s talk about what it actually takes to build a legal career that doesn’t hollow you out along the way. Not the glossy version. Not the “grind harder” myth. The real thing—loans, losses, courtroom pressure, and the slow work of becoming yourself in a profession that often asks you to disappear. Today, Ron and Clinton sit down with trial attorney Jared to trace a non-traditional legal path shaped by grit, independence, and a defining trial that changed how he measures fear, failure, and success. From public defense to a solo med-mal practice, Jared’s story challenges what a “successful” lawyer is supposed to look like. What’s it like entering the legal profession without money, connections, or a roadmap?How did public defense and homicide work permanently reset Jared’s stress tolerance?What happens when your very first solo trial is a three-week, multi-defendant med-mal case?How do you recover—financially and mentally—from losing a case you poured everything into?What does real confidence look like when it’s earned the hard way?Why did Jared choose a lean solo practice instead of scaling for volume?How much individuality can lawyers actually bring into the courtroom—and why does it matter?What does it take to build deep, lasting client trust, even when outcomes aren’t perfect?How should young lawyers think about networking, skill gaps, and early responsibility?Why is protecting your health and time not optional—but essential—in this profession? That’s all for today! Huge thanks to Jared for sharing a story that’s honest about pressure, loss, and resilience—and for showing what it looks like to build a modern legal practice without surrendering your identity or your life. Ron and Clinton close by connecting Jared’s journey to the “1958 Lawyer” thesis: a needed shift away from burnout-driven models and toward firms that are both profitable and livable.If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with a lawyer who’s quietly wondering if there’s another way to do this work. Thanks for listening—we’ll see you next time.  About Jared Reynolds:Jared M. Reynolds is a Chicago-based trial lawyer and solo practitioner focused on nursing home abuse, medical malpractice, personal injury, and wrongful death, recovering over $15.7 million for clients to date. A Chicago-Kent College of Law graduate, he clerked throughout law school for the Cook County Public Defender’s Office as a Supreme Court Rule 711 licensed law clerk, handling more than 70 oral advocacy proceedings and trying both jury and bench trials, and he won the National Veterans’ Law Moot Court Championship in Washington, D.C. Jared has served on the board of LAGBAC, Chicago’s LGBTQ+ Bar Association, since 2016, where he leads a mentorship program that has doubled in size and significantly expanded in diversity. Originally from upstate New York, he is an accomplished distance runner, marathoner, and live-music fan who also enjoys backcountry hiking, camping, skiing, and playing drums. Connect with Jared Reynolds:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jaredmreynolds/To connect with Jared, you can use this Link to share information. https://forms.gle/VAYwy8WEjKpQPwG2A Connect with Ron Bockstahler:Email: ronb@amataoffices.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ronbockstahler/Company website: https://amatacorp.com/“Don't Lose Your Balance” book: https://www.amazon.com/Dont-Lose-Your-Balance-Business/dp/1964046467 Show notes by Team PodcastologistAudio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

Alright, so you’ve hung out your shingle, or you’re thinking about it, and suddenly the practice of law feels a lot lonelier than law school ever warned you it would be. The hours are long, the decisions feel heavier, and everyone else seems too busy (or too proud) to admit they’re struggling too. Welcome to The 1958 Lawyer.In this relaunch episode, Ron Bockstahler and Clinton Ind explain why this podcast exists, who it’s for, and why the traditional way of practicing law is overdue for a serious rethink. This isn’t about case law or legal theory; it’s about the business of law, the people behind it, and how to build a practice that doesn’t burn you out.So let’s start at the beginning: why 1958, and why now? In this episode, we cover:Why the billable-hour model, born in 1958, no longer serves most modern lawyersWho this podcast is for, and why solo and small-firm attorneys feel especially isolatedHow community, not just competence, leads to better decisions and healthier practicesWhat lawyers actually struggle with behind closed doors (and why they rarely talk about it)How AI, staffing models, and new office structures are reshaping firm growthWhy lawyers who ignore these shifts risk being left behindWhat future episodes will explore, from hiring your first employee to finding a real work-life balance That’s just the beginning. Ron and Clinton lay out what listeners can expect from The 1958 Lawyer: honest conversations, practical insights, case-study stories, expert interviews, and the occasional dad joke (they’ve got ten kids between them, it’s inevitable).If you’re building or rebuilding a law practice and want it to be profitable, livable, and sustainable, this show is for you. Subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode with a lawyer who could use a reminder that they don’t have to do this alone. About Ron BockstahlerRon Bockstahler is a father to six children, husband to a loving wife, an athlete, and an entrepreneur. With a unique perspective on life, Ron started his business, Amata Holdings, LLC, more than 22 years ago with the twin goals of raising a family and attending as many home Chicago Cubs games as possible. Throughout his career, Ron has had a relentless focus on setting and achieving life goals. After initially dropping out of high school to make money to support a young family, Ron was able to go back and finish his high school career and graduate with his class. To pay for college and gain the discipline to thrive in college, Ron joined the Marine Corps, where he served four years as an enlisted Marine. After his tour in the Marines, Ron attended Northern Illinois University, where he completed his degree in less than three years. After graduating from college, he took a position as a copier salesperson, where he cut his teeth and learned what it took to succeed in business. Within a corporate career spanning fourteen years with two companies, Ron worked his way up from copier salesman to the C-Suite, always setting and working tirelessly to achieve his written goals. A self-proclaimed workaholic through most of his career, it took running his own business for Ron to learn to appreciate the values of a balanced life. For more than 22 years, Ron has worked to maintain a balance between running a successful company, raising six children, maintaining a healthy marriage, and actively working to be a competitive athlete (during this time, Ron has competed in seven full Ironman races and numerous triathlons and marathons).  About Clinton IndClint is a trial lawyer who has spent much of his career building law firms from the ground up. He has started his own firm twice, practiced solo for more than ten years, and worked in-house with multiple companies. He has taken numerous cases to trial and obtained multi-million-dollar judgments in both medical malpractice and commercial business cases.Clint has a deep respect for the entrepreneurial drive of solo and small-firm attorneys and understands firsthand the challenges of creating a successful, sustainable practice.When not working, Clint can usually be found boxing, mountain biking, or running his kids from one sports commitment to the next. Connect with Ron Bockstahler:Email: ronb@amataoffices.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ronbockstahler/Company website: https://amatacorp.com/“Don't Lose Your Balance” book: https://www.amazon.com/Dont-Lose-Your-Balance-Business/dp/1964046467Show notes by Team PodcastologistAudio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

They say all good things must come to an end—including your time as a business owner. The trick is making sure your exit isn’t a dramatic collapse but more of a graceful bow-out, preferably with a cocktail in hand. Ron Bockstahler is back one last time to talk about exit strategies, or as I like to call it, ‘How to Leave Without the Whole Thing Going Up in Flames.’ Ron, be honest—how many business owners wait way too long to think about this part? Why should business owners think about their exit strategy from the start?How can entrepreneurs separate their identity from their business?What are the signs that it’s time to step away from a business?How does someone create a business that can run without them?What’s the most common reason business owners stay too long?How do you transition from being a business owner to the next chapter of life?How can someone ensure they are financially ready to exit?What role does mindset play in successfully exiting a business?What’s one thing you would have done differently in your exit planning?What’s the most important piece of advice for business owners who want both success and balance? Huge thanks to Ron Bockstahler for sharing his insights on how to balance life and business, without losing your sanity. If you want to dive deeper, grab a copy of his book Don't Lose Your Balance: Live Life or Build a Business? Do Both. It’s packed with real-world advice, practical steps, and a few hard-earned lessons you won’t want to miss.If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with a friend who needs some work-life balance. Thanks for listening, and we’ll catch you next time! About Ron Bockstahler:Ron Bockstahler is a father to six children, husband to a loving wife, athlete, and entrepreneur. With a unique perspective on life, Ron started his business, Amata Holdings, LLC, more than 22 years ago with the twin goals of raising a family and attending as many home Chicago Cubs games as possible. Throughout his career, Ron has had a relentless focus on setting and achieving life goals. After initially dropping out of high school to make money to support a young family, Ron was able to go back and finish his high school career and graduate with his class. To pay for college and gain the discipline to thrive in college, Ron joined the Marine Corps, where he served four years as an enlisted Marine. After his tour in the Marines, Ron attended Northern Illinois University, where he completed his degree in less than three years. After graduating from college, he took a position as a copier salesperson, where he cut his teeth and learned what it took to succeed in business. Within a corporate career spanning fourteen years with two companies, Ron worked his way up from copier salesman to the C-Suite, always setting and working tirelessly to achieve his written goals. A self-proclaimed workaholic through most of his career, it took running his own business for Ron to learn to appreciate the values of a balanced life. For more than 22 years, Ron has worked to maintain a balance between running a successful company, raising six children, maintaining a healthy marriage, and actively working to be a competitive athlete (during this time, Ron has competed in seven full Ironman races and numerous triathlons and marathons).  Connect with Ron Bockstahler:Email: ronb@amataoffices.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ronbockstahler/Company website: https://amatacorp.com/“Don't Lose Your Balance” book: https://www.amazon.com/Dont-Lose-Your-Balance-Business/dp/1964046467Show notes by Team PodcastologistAudio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

Alright, so you’ve started your business, you’ve made some money, and now... your work-life balance is about as stable as a wobbly table at a bad diner. Don’t worry, you’re not alone! Today, Ron Bockstahler is here to walk us through the mid-journey checklist—the part where we figure out how to run a business without working 24/7 or answering emails from the beach like a maniac. Ron, tell us—what’s the first thing we need to stop doing immediately? What’s the key to running a business without it running your life?How can entrepreneurs create competitive advantages that align with their lifestyle?What’s more important—revenue growth or cash flow management?What’s the biggest mistake business owners make when handling finances?How do you stay connected with clients without it becoming overwhelming?What are some key strategies for effective delegation?How do you know when it’s time to hire versus outsource?Why is having a sales process so important for work-life balance?How can technology help business owners gain more time freedom?What’s one business practice that made your life easier? That’s all for today! Big thanks to Ron Bockstahler for sharing his insights on how to balance life and business, without losing your sanity. If you want to dive deeper, grab a copy of his book Don't Lose Your Balance: Live Life or Build a Business? Do Both. It’s packed with real-world advice, practical steps, and a few hard-earned lessons you won’t want to miss.If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with a friend who needs some work-life balance. Thanks for listening, and we’ll catch you next time! About Ron Bockstahler:Ron Bockstahler is a father to six children, husband to a loving wife, athlete, and entrepreneur. With a unique perspective on life, Ron started his business, Amata Holdings, LLC, more than 22 years ago with the twin goals of raising a family and attending as many home Chicago Cubs games as possible. Throughout his career, Ron has had a relentless focus on setting and achieving life goals. After initially dropping out of high school to make money to support a young family, Ron was able to go back and finish his high school career and graduate with his class. To pay for college and gain the discipline to thrive in college, Ron joined the Marine Corps, where he served four years as an enlisted Marine. After his tour in the Marines, Ron attended Northern Illinois University, where he completed his degree in less than three years. After graduating from college, he took a position as a copier salesperson, where he cut his teeth and learned what it took to succeed in business. Within a corporate career spanning fourteen years with two companies, Ron worked his way up from copier salesman to the C-Suite, always setting and working tirelessly to achieve his written goals. A self-proclaimed workaholic through most of his career, it took running his own business for Ron to learn to appreciate the values of a balanced life. For more than 22 years, Ron has worked to maintain a balance between running a successful company, raising six children, maintaining a healthy marriage, and actively working to be a competitive athlete (during this time, Ron has competed in seven full Ironman races and numerous triathlons and marathons).  Connect with Ron Bockstahler:Email: ronb@amataoffices.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ronbockstahler/Company website: https://amatacorp.com/“Don't Lose Your Balance” book: https://www.amazon.com/Dont-Lose-Your-Balance-Business/dp/1964046467Show notes by Team PodcastologistAudio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

They say failing to plan is planning to fail, and I don’t know about you, but I’ve had enough of both. Today, we’re diving into the ‘pre-journey checklist’ for life and business—because, apparently, just winging it isn’t a great long-term strategy. Ron Bockstahler is back with us, ready to help us set real, meaningful goals instead of just making to-do lists we’ll conveniently ignore. Ron, let’s be honest—how many of us are doing this whole planning thing completely wrong? Why is it so important to start with the end in mind?How can someone define success for their life, not just their business?What are the biggest mistakes people make when setting goals?You talk about writing down goals—why does that make such a difference?How can people ensure their business serves their life, not the other way around?What role do personal values play in shaping a business?Why do many entrepreneurs lose sight of their original goals?How do you balance ambition with personal happiness?What small step can someone take today to create a more balanced life?How has goal-setting personally impacted your journey? That’s it for today! Big thanks to Ron Bockstahler for sharing his insights on how to balance life and business, without losing your sanity. If you want to dive deeper, grab a copy of his book Don't Lose Your Balance: Live Life or Build a Business? Do Both. It’s packed with real-world advice, practical steps, and a few hard-earned lessons you won’t want to miss.If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with a friend who needs some work-life balance. Thanks for listening, and we’ll catch you next time! About Ron Bockstahler:Ron Bockstahler is a father to six children, husband to a loving wife, athlete, and entrepreneur. With a unique perspective on life, Ron started his business, Amata Holdings, LLC, more than 22 years ago with the twin goals of raising a family and attending as many home Chicago Cubs games as possible. Throughout his career, Ron has had a relentless focus on setting and achieving life goals. After initially dropping out of high school to make money to support a young family, Ron was able to go back and finish his high school career and graduate with his class. To pay for college and gain the discipline to thrive in college, Ron joined the Marine Corps, where he served four years as an enlisted Marine. After his tour in the Marines, Ron attended Northern Illinois University, where he completed his degree in less than three years. After graduating from college, he took a position as a copier salesperson, where he cut his teeth and learned what it took to succeed in business. Within a corporate career spanning fourteen years with two companies, Ron worked his way up from copier salesman to the C-Suite, always setting and working tirelessly to achieve his written goals. A self-proclaimed workaholic through most of his career, it took running his own business for Ron to learn to appreciate the values of a balanced life. For more than 22 years, Ron has worked to maintain a balance between running a successful company, raising six children, maintaining a healthy marriage, and actively working to be a competitive athlete (during this time, Ron has competed in seven full Ironman races and numerous triathlons and marathons).  Connect with Ron Bockstahler:Email: ronb@amataoffices.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ronbockstahler/Company website: https://amatacorp.com/“Don't Lose Your Balance” book: https://www.amazon.com/Dont-Lose-Your-Balance-Business/dp/1964046467 Show notes by Team PodcastologistAudio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

Today, we’re talking about balance. And no, not the kind where you finally master standing on one foot during yoga class—this is about balancing life and business without falling flat on your face. My guest is Ron Bockstahler, a man who’s not only built a successful business but also managed to have a life outside of it—an actual, fulfilling life! He’s here to tell us how to do the same, and I, for one, am taking notes. Ron, welcome to the show. What inspired you to write Don't Lose Your Balance?Can you share a bit about your background and how it shaped this book?What struggles did you face in balancing business and life?Who do you hope will read this book, and why?What is the biggest misconception about work-life balance?If someone is feeling overwhelmed, what’s the first thing they should do?How does this book differ from other business or self-help books?What key lesson do you wish you had learned earlier in your career?Can success and balance truly coexist, or is it a constant struggle?What do you want listeners to take away from this conversation? That’s a wrap for today! Big thanks to Ron Bockstahler for sharing his insights on how to balance life and business, without losing your sanity. If you want to dive deeper, grab a copy of his book Don't Lose Your Balance: Live Life or Build a Business? Do Both. It’s packed with real-world advice, practical steps, and a few hard-earned lessons you won’t want to miss.If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with a friend who needs some work-life balance. Thanks for listening, and we’ll catch you next time! About Ron Bockstahler:Ron Bockstahler is a father to six children, husband to a loving wife, athlete, and entrepreneur. With a unique perspective on life, Ron started his business, Amata Holdings, LLC, more than 22 years ago with the twin goals of raising a family and attending as many home Chicago Cubs games as possible. Throughout his career, Ron has had a relentless focus on setting and achieving life goals. After initially dropping out of high school to make money to support a young family, Ron was able to go back and finish his high school career and graduate with his class. To pay for college and gain the discipline to thrive in college, Ron joined the Marine Corps, where he served four years as an enlisted Marine. After his tour in the Marines, Ron attended Northern Illinois University, where he completed his degree in less than three years. After graduating from college, he took a position as a copier salesperson, where he cut his teeth and learned what it took to succeed in business. Within a corporate career spanning fourteen years with two companies, Ron worked his way up from copier salesman to the C-Suite, always setting and working tirelessly to achieve his written goals. A self-proclaimed workaholic through most of his career, it took running his own business for Ron to learn to appreciate the values of a balanced life. For more than 22 years, Ron has worked to maintain a balance between running a successful company, raising six children, maintaining a healthy marriage, and actively working to be a competitive athlete (during this time, Ron has competed in seven full Ironman races and numerous triathlons and marathons).  Connect with Ron Bockstahler:Email: ronb@amataoffices.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ronbockstahler/Company website: https://amatacorp.com/“Don't Lose Your Balance” book: https://www.amazon.com/Dont-Lose-Your-Balance-Business/dp/1964046467Show notes by Team PodcastologistAudio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

Patrick Carver is the Owner of Constellation Marketing, a digital marketing company that focuses on driving growth for law firms using web design, advertising and other tools. In this episode, Ron and Patrick talked about how you can take advantage of the many facets of digital marketing today. Patrick shared how a law firm can attract clients by doing sustainable and organic practices like making articles that are tailored for the client you serve, by designing your website to have relevant information and by working on technical aspects such as google advertising, search engine optimization, backlinking and other strategies.  Timestamps:Key things to do for organic growth (7:38)Backlinking and how it can help your website (11:27)What is Google My Business? (28:20)Other marketing channels that law firms should be considering (35:16) “Take advantage of the digital real estate that’s out there that exists for attorneys.” - Patrick Carver Connect with Patrick Carver:Website: https://goconstellation.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrickacarver/ Patrick Carver, Owner of Constellation MarketingDigital Marketing for Law FirmsPatrick Carver is a Missouri native who has spent over a decade working in digital marketing. Before devoting his work full-time to Constellation Marketing, Patrick served as Digital Marketing Manager at Fortune 500 company DICK’S Sporting Goods. He has successful experience across a variety of industries and business sizes.Patrick received his B.S. in political science from Emory University in Atlanta, Georgia. His long history of success is anchored by a strong work ethic and a creative problem-solving approach. In high school, he was an all-state soccer player, a national champion debater, president of the student body, and an entrepreneur. In college, he was a two-time first-team NSCAA all-American soccer player at Emory University as well as team captain and continued his entrepreneurial interests while maintaining a full-time academic load.Now, as CEO of Constellation Marketing, Patrick leads a talented team of legal marketing professionals who work together to achieve a shared goal of driving growth at law firms. From web design to advertising, we have the skill, experience, and drive to build, manage, and maintain the entire spectrum of your digital marketing needs. LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrickacarver/ Have comments, questions, or concerns? Contact us at feedback@1958lawyer.com Episode Transcript:Ron Bockstahler  0:29  Okay, welcome to the show, the 1958 lawyer, I am Ron Bockstahler, your host, we got to today, we're going to start off our series, our marketing series, because I think marketing is one of the greatest misunderstood aspects of running a small business and a small law firm. So we're going to start it off with who I think is one of the best in the country of just talking the overall marketing picture, understanding what it takes, he only works with law firm. So he's a specialist working with law firms. And he's got a ton of background. So Patrick Carver, the CEO of constellation marketing, welcome to the show. Patrick, great to have you back. I'm very excited to have you on the show today.Patrick Carver  1:06  Thank you so much for having me, it's great to be back. Appreciate all that,Ron Bockstahler  1:10  you know, and I'm going to start it off by in I know I've we you and I have talked but marketing people are some of the most mistrusted individuals out there, because they come in and they can do SEO for you, they're gonna pay per click is gonna, you know, and a law small law firm, a solo practitioner says, okay, here, and I'm gonna pay you guys to do this, and you're expecting X amount of results on that, and you get nothing, maybe get something the first couple months, and then it kind of goes down the tubes. And, and we're going to talk to that because, you know, I've gone through this for over 20 years running my company, which made me go out and get a little education on my own. And then I started talking to Patrick, and wow, this is someone that you can trust, he's gonna tell you what it is. So he's not here to he's not going to sell you. He's just going to tell you what it takes to take your law firm to the next level, as far as marketing goes. So with that point, Patrick Patrick, let's talk about how you got here, I guess maybe that's a good way to start.Patrick Carver  2:00  Awesome. Yeah, I am originally from Missouri. And I got into this, essentially, because my father is a criminal defense attorney. And throughout, kind of growing up, I would help him here and there with little items, just kind of understanding technology, I'd built some websites and done some different stuff. And I was working for a separate company. And he'd been kind of unhappy or just, you know, unfulfilled with his marketing provider, one of the big companies that's out there and provides marketing services, and he'd send me these reports every month. And he would say, what does this mean? You know, he didn't understand what it all meant. He knew enough he'd been where he knew he needed to do something, he knew that the market was changing from doing advertising in the yellow pages that you needed to be online, Seo was this thing that was happening, and so on. And so he had the foresight to know he needed to do something. But beyond that, he you know, really just wanted to focus on being a great lawyer and running his practice and all that. And so he'd send me these reports. And he basically would just ask me, Hey, if you have a minute, just let me know what these guys are doing, and if it's any good, and so I was able to eventually install Google Analytics on his website, and let it run for about six months, I think. And by the end of this, this little experiment, I realized that none of his business coming in was from anything that this company was doing on the SEO side, literally every new case that he was getting, had come in by someone googling his name. So he was, you know, really getting all of his business through the fact that he was a good attorney, he would get referrals and stuff like that. And so that really, for it, well, it angered me, you know, that he was paying $1,500 a month for what I thought was, you know, kind of a scam. Really, I thought that somebody, you know, these folks had kind of sold him a bill of goods, but they weren't really doing anything on a monthly basis to actually create that change and, and be accountable for those results. And we're really just kind of banking on the fact that, you know, he wasn't super knowledgeable about about SEO and the, and the inner workings. And so at some point, he just said, Well, do you think you can do better and you know, and make me an offer to do it? And so I did it. And at that point, I wasn't, I wouldn't consider myself an expert at that point with regards to search engine optimization, but I knew enough to where they kind of let me experiment a little bit. And after a year, or six months, we started to see some really good traffic growth and we were the things we were looking at to try and change bringing net new people into into the equation who didn't already know I'm in were just out there searching for a criminal lawyer, we could see that, you know, not only was he getting more traffic, more people were calling and more business was happening where they didn't, he couldn't track it back to a referral, right? He, it was a net new person coming in. And so that was really the big lightbulb moment for me that, okay, you know, doing it the right way or doing the, you know, a good amount of work in the right way can actually lead to these results. And so after, you know, the first full year, their business was up by almost $200,000. And that was a big, you know, again, lightbulb moment for me where I could, you know, see really how this could be have a big impact on other people's firms. Now,Ron Bockstahler  5:49  now, you then you became you started up constellation marketing, and you guys have expanded now, so you're working with law firms throughout the country, give us an idea of the type of law firms you're working with today.Patrick Carver  5:59  We work with mostly what I call transactional law firms. And those are for me, firms that rely on a volume based business. So they are not the corporate law firms that maybe have a couple of clients per year. And they're happy with that these type of firms and we're talking about personal injury, criminal immigration, bankruptcy, family, you know, kind of anything that fits in there, that is a in for us, it's typically a solo or small law firm, that is really relying on that influx of new business on a monthly basis, they may get some recurring, but, you know, hopefully, people aren't committing felonies every single month of the year, right and coming back to you. So it's those type of businesses that when we kind of get them, often, they are running a good business, they are delivering a good service, but they're mostly existing on referrals, and friends of friends, things like that. And they want to get to that point where they they're getting new business in the door that is not reliant on referrals, which, you know, as the audience knows, can when they happen, they're awesome, but they're often infrequent. And you can't really do anything to amplify them, or increase the frequency in a really good, you know, consistent way.Ron Bockstahler  7:27  Let's take it to because you did a presentation on how to create a pipeline of new clients without referrals, like, let's talk to that, how do we do that? What's some of the key things that you got to do as the small law firm?Patrick Carver  7:40  For sure, the biggest things you can do our to really just take advantage of the digital real estate that's out there that exists for attorneys. And what I mean by that is, you think about how someone is looking for a lawyer. And we know that the majo

Timestamps:The most difficult part in file retrieval(1:17)Eliminating the problem of indexing (8:46)Evolving with technology and maintaining client relationships (15:47)Future quality of life features(23:52) “If you’re not evolving exponentially with the technology that comes out, you’re gonna fall behind or you’re not gonna be able to capitalize on opportunities that are  really out there for you.” - Mathew Dragatsis Mathew DragatsisWebsite: www.scansearch.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mathew-dragatsis-b218883/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ScanSearchDAMTwitter: https://twitter.com/scansearch Mathew Dragatsis, Scan Search Document ImagingMathew Dragatsis has been the Founder of Radiant Solutions Corporation and CEO of their new product, Scan Search. He has almost 30 years of experience in document imaging and has served many different kinds of organizations with their document imaging, management, and retrieval needs.  LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/mathew-dragatsis-b218883/   Have comments, questions, or concerns? Contact us at feedback@1958lawyer.com Episode Transcript:Ron Bockstahler  0:29  Welcome to the show everyone, good to have you back. We have a little bit different show today. So it's gonna be talking to a good good friend of mine. In fact, if I can think back about 20 years ago, Matt was a client of mine. So he started off as a client, Matt dragados. This started his firm in 2001. But he was doing the head of another firm before that, that he had sold. He ran for four years. And he's in the imaging scanning imaging technology field, and he has an amazing product that he's got out on the market today. So Matt, I'm gonna let you jump right into it. Kind of tell us what you got it. Let's talk about your history, though. Cuz you've been entrepreneur, you've been running your company for over 20 years. Tell us how you got here?Mathew Dragatsis  1:10  Yeah, sure. Thanks for having me on. First of all, I really appreciate it. Yeah, we started radium solutions back in 2001. And basically, that company was formed to provide solutions to all sectors, to allow companies to scan in their documents, extract the information that's on those documents, and then do something with that, basically, you know, if you're an accounts payable department, we're gonna extract all the pertinent data, and store that and allow you to, you know, retrieve that document based on that information. And that'll kind of lead in the scan search as well. But that's what we've been doing for probably the last, you know, 20 years or so, we've done things with law firms, as well. But it's always been scanning your documents, and I'm sure the, the audience who can relate to this, scanning your documents, all of your case, files, what have you, and then you know, look at the screen, and then basically index those, you're gonna, you're gonna, you're going to tag them, you're gonna, you know, index them and tell them how to retrieve that document based on a case file, a customer name, maybe social security number, what have you. And that's a manual process to do that. So we've been doing that since 2001. We've got companies in many different sectors, including government, big and healthcare. And, you know, that's basically what we've been doing, and been quite successful at it for all these years. And then I'll kind of lead in a scan search. So after, you know, almost 30 years of doing all this, in realizing that the most expensive part of these systems is not the software, and it's not the annual maintenance, and it's not, if it's the size, the subscription, gets the manpower to tag those documents, if you're gonna put a document in the system, right now, basically, all you can do it, let's say you upload it to Dropbox or Google Drive, you can do a search on the file name. And if you happen to know a date range, maybe the date range is pretty limited. And you could put them in folders and kind of do that. But to actually get to your documents, it's a struggle. And it's even more of a struggle to get them in there to be able to index them from an imaging system. And there are several imaging companies out there. But the fact remains, there's that indexing process. So if you're going to scan 1000 documents a day, you're going to have two or three people spending all day long indexing those documents, because you need to be able to retrieve them on the important date of the time those documents. So I'll sit around one day, and I'm thinking, Well, you know, I'll use a case file number as an example. Typically, you're gonna have a field, that's going to be called case file number, and you're going to type in, we're trying to OCR and validate that it's correct that information in that field. So I was thinking to myself, why do we need to know that that case, file number is a case file number? Why do we need to know that? Can we just search for it, like we do Google and find a Google, you know, webpage based on, you know, some loose, you know, searching criteria. And the more I thought about it, the more I realized this, if we could do this, this eliminates the entire indexing process, which is the most time consuming and expensive. So we put a little pencil to paper, and we kind of design this thing to work that way. And it took us almost, I'm gonna say almost two years to bring scan search to market. But in that time, we realized, wow, this is powerful stuff. And you know, part of the process was, Who's your competition? Is anybody doing it? How big is the marketplace? And we actually hired a firm to do all that for us. And they came back and they were like, Well, no, there is no competition doing this, how you're doing it, there are products that you could put together, you have to have the wherewithal to do it. And they're very expensive to bring this to the marketplace. But we figured out a way to do it as one package. Okay, so basically upload your documents, we process them in the cloud, you search by anything on those documents. I mean, that's as simple as it could possibly get. And so you know, about two years later, we actually, you know, formed the company scan search, and that's an entity now, and we provide this solution as a says, In other words, you can go to our website, sign up, and we've got a free trial. We've actually have a free version of it for smaller versions, if you want to try that out. And you're able to basically within minutes set up your department or your customers or your deposit Stories are your folders, whatever you want to call them, and start uploading documents to those sections of the system. And within minutes, you now have those documents accessible, full text, any word or phrase that's on there. And I guess, stop and think about that for a minute. That's pretty powerful. Because right now thatRon Bockstahler  5:17  will rub, you jump through 20 years pretty quick there, Matt. Let's so you know, look, I've known you for a long time. You've actually been into moto CLI for a long time. But it didn't. I never put it to, like scanning and OCR searching of a document. And so I think your business has evolved as every business I think has, I mean, 20 years ago, we didn't even think about the technology that we have today. Right? So right, you were thinking this 20 years ago, but you've kind of evolved, you've evolved, you know, the technology has evolved into what you are today, right? So this is why this came to market is you know, a lot about this industry.Mathew Dragatsis  5:54  Yeah, you know, like I said, to jump through that pretty quick, but that is pretty much all we've been doing. But you know, the technology has evolved, we've evolved with it, you know, in the beginning, in the very beginning, we can only do scan documents that we created. So they would be credit card applications, they would be insurance claim forms, they would be oh geez, you name it anything that you would fill out Omaha Steaks with our customer, there are there things that you fill out to order steaks that used to be in the magazines, and you send it in, but our system would read all that we did a deal. I won't name any names, but it was a government agency that dealt with a documented immigrants. And basically, they had a form that they had to fill out. And we did hundreds of 1000s of these a week for the IMS basically, and I won't tell you the firm that we were working with, because I can't but you know, that was a form that was filled out and sent in. And then we started dealing with kind of unstructured data, we got away from the remember the comb, and you put the letters in there. And, you know, the little circles that you would fill in and all that, you know, that's how we got our start. Now, that doesn't even exist anymore, that to my knowledge when you get to these high end systems. So now it's a lot more artificial intelligence, intelligence has come into play, where you know, we are trying to look for certain fields and look for things to put in there. But it's nowhere near perfect. I mean, it's far from it. But that's what we've been doing up until Scan Search. And yes, it has evolved quite a bit. But I just knew there was a big jump that we could take to to to make this the process of retrieving documents. That's really what we're giving our customers way easier. And I couldn't put my thumb on it for a while. I'm obsessed with this. So you know, what I've been thinking about for years, how do we make this better? And why we've seen all kinds of attempts with other companies, that sort of different sorts of things. But we're the first we know we were the first today anyway, are we happy, but they're really offers this all encompassing, simple, simple package, you sign up, you set your system up, it's a 10 minute process, if you have three different departments in your organization, and you want to have their own documents separated for security reasons, organizational reasons, what have you, you set

Michael DeLon is the President in Paperback Expert, he is an author, speaker, marketing strategist and business growth coach for business owners and sharp, aggressive entrepreneurs looking to get to the next level in their business. In this episode Michael talks about all the ways you can establish credibility, stand out, and convert leads by publishing a book. He uses three concepts: clarify, simplify, and multiply to harness a lawyer’s journey or life story to make a compelling story out of it which will then be the cornerstone of all their marketing strategies. Timestamps:Telling your story (5:14)Clarify. Simplify. Multiply. (6:53)Your book as the centerpiece of your marketing (16:20)Continuous leads, follow up, and more conversions(3:58) “Everyone... has a story of why they're doing what they do. Somewhere they made a decision of why they became a lawyer. Why? I wanna know that story. Weave that through the book because none of their competitors can fight that. Your message is what differentiates you.”Paperback Expert Website: https://paperbackexpert.com/Twitter: https://twitter.com/MichaelDeLonBooks: https://www.amazon.com/Michael-DeLon/e/B00J2794ZY%3FLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaeldelon/ Michael DeLon, President of Paperback ExpertDepartment (Marketing Strategist and Business Growth Coach)Michael is an author, speaker, marketing strategist and business growth coach for business owners and sharp, aggressive entrepreneurs looking to get to the next level in their business.Michael is a native of Indiana and has lived near Little Rock, AR since 2004. His business background includes real estate, automotive, radio, internet, consulting and 10 years in family ministry.Michael is a voracious learner … you’ll always find him with a book (or 2 or 3) and an audio series going on his iPhone or iPod. But more than learning, Michael loves applying, testing and perfecting marketing concepts that help his clients achieve more.Michael and his wife reside near Little Rock, AR with their three children. They are deeply involved in The Bible Church of Little Rock.Michael loves spending time with his family, traveling with friends and living life on the edge.LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaeldelon/ Have comments, questions, or concerns? Contact us at feedback@1958lawyer.com Episode Transcript:Ron Bockstahler  0:28  Welcome to the show, I am your Runbox dollar your host got a very, very special guest with me today. Michael Dylon, Michael, I want to say you're the credibility expert. And I know you've got a great bio, but you know, the ideas. And the attorneys out there you need to be writing books, and showing that you are the expert what to do. And that's exactly what Michael helps you do is he helps you go out and create a book, take that book, the number one bestseller on Amazon, and then just you change your marketing so that your marketing is all built around your credibility. And not just being another, you know, face and a website that really has no meaning whatsoever to a potential client. So Michael, I didn't mean to mess up your your intro, but very excited to have you on the show. Welcome to the show.Michael DeLon  1:12  No, that's great, man. I'll take that title, anytime credibility builder, and it really is a game changer. When you create your own book. You and I were just talking about you reading my book that I published back in 2013. That was my first one that that was the book I wrote wrong when I escaped prison. And now it wasn't a literal prison man, right? It was an emotional prison. I was stuck in a job that I hated for about two years, and needed to get out. And it was a ministry job where I was building marriages and families. And they just went through corporate reorg and all that stuff. And I was in a position that I hated and prayed and said got it got to get out of here. And I started a marketing consulting firm in Little Rock, which is where I live now. Because marketing is my background helping small business owners with marketing. But I go out Ron and I come to Yes, I think I can help you grow your business. You meet with me, we talk and you say Now Mike, what have you done for the last few years? And I said, Well, I built marriages and families. And you'd say, Michael, that's honorable way to go, you know, look at the timeline. I've got another appointment. Let's keep this conversation going. And you assure me out the door. And Ron, I was not getting any clients and I was living on savings. I'm like, Man, I gotta fix this. So I found myself one day pacing the hallways of my church saying God, how do I help Ron? Because I know I can. And he said, Why don't you just take all of your marketing strategies and put them in a book. Now back then I didn't know the first thing about writing the book. So I sat down and I just started plowing through it. It took us a few months to get it done. But what happened is I'd call you and I'd set an appointment, I'd mail you a copy of my book. And about a week later, I walk into your office. And there was my book was on your desk dog, your highlight and underline you'd read my book. And in that meeting, Ron, you'd say now, Michael, in your book, you said, how do you help me do that? And you'd hire me. And the next guy hired me and the next guy hired me. Pretty cool.Ron Bockstahler  3:01  Cool, cool.Michael DeLon  3:01  What changed between those two meetings? Did my background in ministry change? Not a bit? Did my understanding of marketing change? Nope. What changed was how you thought of me, when you got a copy of my book, you immediately saw me as an expert. And you are ready to take down the prescription I had for you to solve your marketing problems, that Ron changed my business in my life. And that was the seed that got planted that has now grown into paperback expert, where we help attorneys create their own book without writing a word, to establish that credibility to separate them from all that competition. And then we teach them actually how to market themselves as a credible authority and expert. So they'll gain clients get referrals and grow their revenue, which is what it's all about.Ron Bockstahler  3:52  Here's the first thing I thought of when you said I wrote that book back in 2013. So eight years ago, I met you through networking, through a mutual friend who actually lives in St. Louis. Right. I live in Chicago, like Indianapolis, I suppose. And my business is on Chicago, but and so in 2013, I went and bought the book when I met you because I thought okay, I gotta understand, I'm going to go cruise and I read the book. And of course, I've got it all marked up and eared up. I'll never return it to anyone, right because I got so many notes in the book. But you wrote the book eight years ago. Now you're still that I got something from that, I guess shelf life, right? So you talk about shelf life because I mean, how many times we go out and go to American but we go to somewhere we hand out our business card which goes in the circular.Michael DeLon  4:36  Yeah, and we're getting away from businesses. I was just at a three day mastermind and this guy pulled out as his give. He's got this little.on The back of his iPhone case that all you have to do is touch it to my iPhone and all of his contact information comes to my iPhone. Business cards are a thing of the past right? But the shelf life yeah, books have shelf life. number one number two in our culture. Itzhak religious To throw a book away, we move them from house to house or office to office. So once you put a book in somebody's hand, you become a household member, right. But the other thing that doesn't I mean, most of the time, your, your message isn't going to change over time. Okay. And the other thing that doesn't change in in really, where we shine, and what we really want to help our clients do is to tell their unique story. Okay, I began this podcast with my unique story of escaping prison. Okay, and I do that for a reason is number one, it captures your attention, I've got you now you're like you're in prison, right. And then I weave that into how I got to where I am today. So it's a compelling story that's memorable. That is unique to me. And every one of your listeners, every one of your clients are on has a story of why they're doing what they do. Somewhere in their college, somewhere, they made a decision to become an a lawyer, why I want to know that story. Because I want to weave that through the book to separate them because none of their competitors can fight that they can all do better pay per click, they all hire better intake people. Your message is what differentiates you I've got a couple examples we can talk about from attorneys that we've been able to seriously differentiate, not because I created something for them. But because we discovered their story. And we were able to weave that into a very clear brand strategy and a clear message that just it changes everything in your marketing.Ron Bockstahler  6:27  Michael, I'm mesmerized by marketing, because it's so complex. It's almost one of those things where you know, I'm an attorney, I don't want to get into the weeds on marketing. How do I break this down to something that's going to be effective for me and I can stand out in my family law attorney or whatever type of law I'm practicing. How can I stand out? I know you said you got a couple examples I'd love to hear about.Michael DeLon  6:47  Yeah, so three words, Ron, that I try to live by that work in marketing works in life. Okay, three words, clarify. Simplify, multiply, and they go in that order. So let's talk marketing. You have to clarify your message, your distinct unique message. Alright. William Franchi. He's a personal injury attorney down in Florida. He came to me wanting to do a book. We started going through the process brand strategy, and I learned that he was a baseball player moved from the Northeast down to Florida to go to co

Melissa Costello is the creative lead and chief storyteller for MELISSACOSTELLO.COM’s video-centric take on branding and marketing. In this episode, she shares the value of telling stories in marketing and why marketing through video works for lawyers. They talk about how lawyers today need to start thinking differently about their business and embrace marketing. The most important kind of marketing that is especially effective for law firms is using client testimonials. Melissa says that there’s no substitute for testimonial videos, story telling is the most engaging medium of communication and people will want to do business with you if you tell them your clients’ stories.  Timestamps:Marketing through storytelling (1:16)How to create engaging marketing (7:50)Different types of video (19:51)Why video marketing works for lawyers (28:20) “It is one of your greatest assets, the stories that your clients would be only too happy to tell - of how you changed their life, how you saved their business. Attorneys to a very large degree think that they provide a very intellectual product, and a legal product is anything but.” - Melissa Costello Connect with Melissa Costello:Website: https://melissacostello.com/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MelissaCostello.comChicago/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/melissacostellochicago/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/melissacostelloYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbZ8FHOYkCwD078T9dJgVYg/featured Melissa Costello, Creative Lead and Story TellerMarketingMelissa Costello is the creative lead and chief storyteller for MELISSACOSTELLO.COM’s video-centric take on branding and marketing. Telling stories and building brands that impact people’s businesses and people’s lives is her passion. Her upbringing engaged her in a lively mix of both the fine arts and the marketing arts, joint passions shared by numerous members of the extended family. It’s in the blood as is a restless curiosity. Costello has been awarded both domestic and international honors for the videos and television commercials she has produced for more than 30 years through her companies in Chicago and Los Angeles, and in collaboration with former political media consultant, David Axelrod for clients such as President Barack Obama and Mayor Rahm Emanuel.LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/melissacostello Have comments, questions, or concerns? Contact us at feedback@1958lawyer.com Episode Transcript:Ron Bockstahler  0:29  Welcome to the show. I am your host, Ron box dollar. And today we have a super special guest because he's one of my favorite people. And definitely one of my favorite people to talk to Melissa Costello. Welcome to the show, Melissa.Melissa Costello  0:40  Hey, thanks, Ron. It's really fun to be here already. Thanks.Ron Bockstahler  0:46  Again, it's funny because we generally get together for coffee, and now we're doing it over a show.Melissa Costello  0:50  Exactly. And we can't stop. You know, it's also good to have a 45 minute cut off point, I suppose.Ron Bockstahler  0:57  Well, you know, let's talk about you take us, you know, in your bio, which I didn't read the whole thing, but you actually talk about, there's my notes here. Your family engaged in a lively mix of fine arts and marketing arts. What are you talking about?Melissa Costello  1:10  What does that mean? You know, storytelling is actually what it means we it's coming at storytelling from a number of different disciplines. My dad's dad was an attorney. He was a litigator, he was brilliant at they used to say he created a spell in the courtroom, my father became a copywriter, my father, you know, took that notion of storytelling and applied it to, you know, huge corporations in America, he worked at Leo Burnett, his brother started an advertising agency, and you know, was another brilliant storyteller and writer, my sister is a script writer, it's in the blood, my son is a writer. So at the dining room table, you know, my sisters and I were the in house focus group. So it's like, girls, what would you think if we could cut apples into stars? Would you like that? What would you call it? What would you dip it into? You know, was, to me, the notion of marketing of advertising was play, this is what we're playing. This is fun. And I still bring that sense of playful discovery to my work, because that is what storytelling is, you find the story and you share it. And who doesn't love to tell a good story?Ron Bockstahler  2:26  We're talking most of our audiences are attorneys. And they're generally if they're litigators, they got to be a great storyteller. But Why do so few use video to tell their story digitally, to prospective customers?Melissa Costello  2:42  Well, that's a really that's a really good question. Ron. It's mystifying in the 21st century. You know, when you look back at where this whole thing started, you know, originally, video storytelling was called TV commercials. And it was in the very, you know, it was in the mix for an advertising agency, and it was cost prohibitive for most, because you'd have to have a massive crew. And you'd have, you know, in those days, I can't even imagine what the rates were like in the 50s and 60s when they began advertising. And by the way, it was very primitive. When you look at some of those old ads, they're horrible. I mean, by today's standards, things would, you know, the art has evolved. It's very sophisticated. But I would say that, as things have shifted forward, as things have evolved, I don't understand why people don't use it more often. Except that if you buy it on your own, you're usually not going to get a great product, you're going to if you go through an advertising agency, they have vetted a solid filmmaker, for you to work with. But I think smaller organizations have a hard time accessing those individuals accessing those companies. And they also have a hard time justifying the cost, you know, and expense is something that comes up often. But I, you know, what I say to my clients is what's really expensive, is doing it poorly and not using it. I mean, you're throwing money away, do it right. And you can use it over and over and over and over and over again. So, you know, in the legal world, you have such extraordinary stories to tell. They are the thing that almost every law firm leaves on the table. Every time they talk about marketing, it is one of your greatest assets are the stories that your clients would be only too happy to tell of how you change their life, how you saved their business. I think attorneys to a very large degree, think that they provide an intellectual product and a legal product is anything but I know from my own experience, having been in small claims court, represented by David Goodman, thanks very much, David, shout out. I know and I haven't done anything wrong, but the Feeling you have the anxiety? The Am I a bad person? What am I doing in small claims court? That David, you know, definitely stepped in, corrected everybody's perception. The judge was like, Oh, well, yeah, da, I can't tell you what he the gift he gave me. It's beyond money. It is He gave me peace of mind. And he also well gave me peace of mind and what,Ron Bockstahler  5:27  hopefully a win.Melissa Costello  5:30  He definitely gave me a win. He definitely gave let's backRon Bockstahler  5:32  up because I want to go into the cost, the sticker shock of quality, storytellers and what you need. But I want to talk more about let's get a little I want our listeners to have a more of a understanding of your past your history, the amazing clients you've worked with. I mean, you've worked with David Axelrod and a lot of his clients. So let's talk about maybe your top one or two clients that you've done video done storytelling with?Melissa Costello  5:57  Well, certainly, Barack Obama. Yeah, that was a high point it working with somebody, first of all, who's so verbal, so bright, and so kind and such a gentleman and really couldn't find anything wrong with him. Like I didn't, I didn't have to cover up any flaws in the filmmaking, you could say. And also working with David Axelrod, who you know, just an utterly brilliant strategist, and then bringing the emotion to his work through film. It was absolutely a high point. And then my children even started to feel like they were engaged in the campaign to the point that on the night that he won, I was in Grant Park with my son, and he turned to me and he said, Mom, we did it with tears in his eyes. Because, you know, the politicians would cycle in and out of our home, we would shoot in our home all the time, it became kind of a backstage for Axelrod's company. And you know, mayors and governors and whatever everybody would kind of pass through at some point, and the children would get to meet them.Ron Bockstahler  7:03  You know, David Axelrod is a brilliant marketer, political media strategist is what he's doing. whatever title you give him, at the end of the day, he understands if he was running a law firm, he would know how to make that the number one law firm in Chicago. That's true. And so when we're talking to the law firms right now that are listening, the attorneys that are listening to this, they need to start thinking maybe bigger or differently about how they're going out and approaching their business in general, and marketing in today's world, and I'm actually been slow to the digital world arena, and you know, tick tock, and everything's on video. And, you know, but everyone has to embrace that, which means they got to embrace someone that can make them look really good. And help them tell their story.Melissa Costello  7:50  I you know, again, back to the intellectual product concept. The other thing that almost all firms want to communicate is we're worth it worth worth the money that you're spending on us. And how do they do that? They do that with the ubiquitous skyline. It's like, you know, Attorney

Marie Sarantakis is the founder of Sarantakis Law Group, LTD. She is a best-selling author, a prominent family law attorney, nationally recognized divorce coach, and the president of Adrikos, LLC. In this episode, Marie talks about narcissism in divorce court cases and defines what it really means and how it differs from mere selfish behavior. They also discussed how divorce coaches can give clients support beyond the courtroom as they are able to provide emotional support and a big picture analysis of the situation. Lastly, they talked about the benefits of the remote environment of the pandemic in law and how it could help with expanding your network. Timestamps:Difference between a narcissist and a jerk (3:20)Helping a client through being victimized by a narcissist (7:00)Divorce coach and divorce attorneys(11:23)Integrating technology and practicing networking(17:00) “You get divorced based on irreconcilable differences. Just because you married a bad person, doesn’t mean you actually get more in the divorce case.” Sarantakis Law Group, LTD.Website: https://sarantakislaw.com/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SarantakisLaw/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mariesarantakis/ Marie Sarantakis, Founder of Sarantakis Law Group, LTDFamily LawMarie Sarantakis is the founder of Sarantakis Law Group, LTD. She is a best-selling author, a prominent family law attorney, nationally recognized divorce coach, and the president of Adrikos, LLC. LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mariesarantakis/ Have comments, questions, or concerns? Contact us at feedback@1958lawyer.com Episode Transcript:Ron Bockstahler  0:29  All right, welcome to the show. A good to have everyone back today we got a special guest who has a best selling author. She's a prominent family law attorney nationally recognized divorce coach, she's founded her own law firm Sarah Takus Law Group, and she's the president and re coasts LLC located in Oak Brook Marie San Takus. Murray, welcome to the show today.Marie Sarantakis  0:48  Thank you so much for having me, Ron.Ron Bockstahler  0:51  Okay, I want to get started quick. But let's give a little background You've done so much in your career already. So kindly was talking to how your family law attorney, you've written a book, How to divorce a narcissist, and when and when. And we want to talk about that kind of go through some of those things. But let's just talk about how you got to where you're at today.Marie Sarantakis  1:07  Sure. So you know, I come from a Greek immigrant family, my parents had businesses as I was growing up. So I've always been the type of person where work was just a normal part of life, and something that was sort of at the center. And I always knew I would own my own business one day, didn't always know what it would be. I went to law school became a lawyer. And I started my own practice about a month after I was licensed. So I jumped right in with both feet and have been a divorce attorney ever since. Wow. And successful.Marie Sarantakis  1:42  Thank you.Ron Bockstahler  1:43   Let's go. You wrote to me, why'd you write the book, I mean, what gave you that energy, time, desire?Marie Sarantakis  1:49  Sure. So as far as time I just don't necessarily sleep a lot. So I like to keep busy. And I'm naturally a very creative person. And I love to build things, I love to create something out of nothing. And writing a book on divorce. And narcissism just seemed like the perfect fit. I found so many of my clients would come in talking about having a narcissistic spouse. And I felt like a lot of attorneys didn't quite understand what it meant. And that clients really were able to heal and move on, the better. They understood what it was and how to deal with it. And so I thought it was such an important topic. And when I found myself having the same conversations over and over again, I thought, this really needs to be shared with a broader audience beyond just my clients. So that's what motivated me to write the book. And it was a really fun experience to put together. So I enjoyed working on it, I typically worked very late at night. So anybody that knows me knows I'm a night owl. And you know, I would say 99% of the book was written well, after midnight every night.Ron Bockstahler  2:57  You know, my first question is, I can see someone's coming in, they want to get a divorce, they're unhappy, clearly, they want to leave their spouse, I would just use the term of the narcissist in a general format, probably understanding exactly what it is. Did you? Was it more of that? Or did you actually was the opposing spouse actually a narcissist.Marie Sarantakis  3:15  So you know, it goes both ways. I certainly think that there's a lot of people who assume their spouse is a narcissist, just because their spouse is acting selfishly, but selfishly really doesn't quite get at what somebody with narcissistic personality disorder has. That's a whole different level of depravity of cruelness. And you know, that particular disorder is much more calculated, that person needs constant stream of attention. And if things are not about them, they become very angry, and they always find a way to shift the focus about them. And somebody with narcissistic personality disorder also is all about control. They need to control everything and everyone around them to such an extent that it doesn't matter what the cost or the consequences are. Control is everything.Ron Bockstahler  4:04  So wow, how many clients do you think have come into your office over the past 10 plus years and said, legit, I got a narcissist, I've got to get away.Marie Sarantakis  4:15  Oh, I couldn't even tell you how many. But I could tell you it certainly is very common. You know, this is probably something we hear about several times each week. And what's rather interesting is you know, sometimes we see people alleging their spouse may be a narcissist, but maybe it's them. Maybe they're the one who's the narcissist themselves and are just trying to get ahead of it. Maybe their spouse has already alleged to them that that's what they believe they are. So they think, Well, if I get ahead of it and say that they're the narcissist. Now, they're less credible when they make the same allegation. You know, but at the end of the day, as far as divorce court goes, in a certain sense, it doesn't really matter, right. I see this common misunderstanding that clients feel compelled that the judge needs to know that their spouse is a narcissist, and all the evil and cruel things they've done. Now granted, some of the things may be very relevant to, let's say, parenting time and raising children, maybe affairs and spending money on that. Sure those things may be relevant to a divorce case. But the general idea that their spouse is a jerk that really doesn't come into play Illinois and no fault divorce state, you get divorced based on irreconcilable differences. Just because you married a bad person, doesn't mean you actually get more in the divorce case. Wow. Alright, soRon Bockstahler  5:36  let's go back to that real quickly. Why did you go into family law because you're coming right out of law school when you started your firm?Marie Sarantakis  5:41  Sure, well, I sort of fell into it, I always thought I would do criminal law. But I started working with a family law firm. And basically, by the time I was ready to graduate, I had quite a bit of experience in the field. And I was also extremely involved in various bar associations. So it's kind of funny, because even though I was a law student, I think a lot of the attorneys around me assumed I was a lawyer, because they had seen me for so many years at so many places, and being so involved, they didn't quite realize that I was so young and so new in the field. And because of that, it was such a blessing because I was able to get referrals right off the bat. And that's part of the reason why I was able to open my own firm so young, because of the networks and the connections that I had made. While before my career even started.Ron Bockstahler  6:31  Yes, that makes me want to jump into a whole different topic, which is networking as an attorney, the valleys critical. We'll save that because I really want to get back to the book because I really want to talk about the different stages you've outlined. And I look at this as a specialty within a specialty. So you got family law, we're talking about divorce, and now we're talking about divorce specifically to someone with narcissistic behavior. And how do you help your client work get through this?Marie Sarantakis  6:58  Well, I think a huge part of it is knowing that somebody understands what they're going through, because narcissists tend to gaslight their victims, so they try to make the other person believe that they're going crazy that their interpretation of things are wrong. And so by the time they come and see me, oftentimes they're doubting themselves, they're doubting what they've experienced, their self confidence is hurting. And so I try to help them first and foremost, cope with the reality of their situation, and shift their focus from that other person and maybe directing anger or revenge towards them and focusing their efforts on bettering themselves. Going back to who they used to be before they were with the narcissist, and finding that person again, and pursuing their dreams, because they often feel so despondent and hopeless. To me, the most rewarding part of what I do is giving people hope again, and then seeing them on their way to the next part of their journey.Ron Bockstahler  7:59  Or in the by the way, you brought up sat with my wife when I was reading part of this book and gaslighting in. I asked, my wife said, You know what that means? She goes, Oh, yeah, because I used to experience that with my dad, who we've since reading your book, and he started saying that he definitely has Narcissus behaviors. How do you because it seems

Nate Dinger is the Senior Vice President of Commercial Banking at Signature Bank - he helps small, mid sized businesses, and law firms in Chicago manage their finances. Often times lawyers don’t have any time to take care of their own firm’s financial concerns so Nate, along with Signature Bank, helps them through financial advise, management and even through giving out loans for cases - which is uncommon since banks usually see court cases as high risk situations. Nate also talks about their company vision and focus of being a relationship-based bank. He discusses the big difference between knowing a guy or a gal and calling a generic phone number since people feel more valued when talking to a legitimate person than a service line.  Timestamps:How lawyers can benefit from commercial banks (3:10)Relationship-focused banking (10:41)Financing cases through commercial banks (16:01)Character as the most important of the four C’s(20:16) “When the suns shining and everything's going fine, you might not need them. But on a rainy day, when things get shaken up a bit, it certainly helps to have a warm body to call.” Nate Dinger Connect with Nate:Website: http://www.signature-bank.com/index.cfmLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dinger/ Nate Dinger, Senior Vice President, Division Head - Commercial Banking at Signature BankCommercial BankingNate Dinger is the Senior Vice President of Commercial Banking at Signature Bank - he helps small, mid sized businesses, and law firms in Chicago manage their finances. LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dinger/  Have comments, questions, or concerns? Contact us at feedback@1958lawyer.com Episode Transcript:Ron Bockstahler  0:29  Okay, welcome to the show. I'm your host Ron box dollar. And today we have Nate dinger, Senior Vice President and division head at Signature Bank, a commercial bank located in chicago primarily in Chicagoland area, helping small midsize businesses, Chicago and law firms in Chicago. So they have a special niche. Nate, welcome to the show.Nate Dinger  0:47  Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.Ron Bockstahler  0:48  Yeah, we're gonna try to get through this without me butchering everything I say. But hey, let's talk about you a little bit. You've been with the bank for just over 16 years. Now, let's talk about how you got there. Yes,Nate Dinger  0:59  I got here, I took a job with a much smaller community bank, you know, a long time ago, and that bank no longer exists. It was fell victim to the first recession a little while ago. And But in that process, one of my clients, new Mecca work our CEO in May, the introduction signature was a much smaller place back then. And, you know, I jumped on board, I was young and willing to take the risk to a newer bank. And you know, it's been a lot of fun. It's been a fun ride since then.Ron Bockstahler  1:26  Awesome. And you're Wabash man, you and I were talking that before the show. So what's it mean to be a wall bash? Man? Can you explain it to our Chicago listeners who don't know?Nate Dinger  1:35  Sure? Sure, sure. So I think it means a lot to me, that's for sure. So for those of you that don't know, while Bash is a smaller, all male liberal arts college in Crawfordsville, Indiana, to great school, very tight network of alums. And, you know, it's a place where I learned to think, and, you know, you have small class sizes, where you're oftentimes, you know, under 1010 students in a class, you're interacting directly with your professors who challenge you on a day to day basis. And it really helps not only, you know, get a college degree, but I think, learn to think and, you know, help you, you know, help you grow up during the college process, so meant a lot to me.Ron Bockstahler  2:11  And to me, it says, You got great Midwestern values, which I know is one of the big things that Signature Bank, Let's chat a little about Signature Bank, what sets you guys apart from other banks?Nate Dinger  2:20  Sure. So I think there's a few factors. Number one is that we are strictly a commercial bank, and we're a relationship focused. Our bank was founded by three former LaSalle bankers that, you know, left there when Bank of America bought them and kind of pushed their group up market, you know, bigger deals, that sort of thing. And what we really value is the owner operated business where we can sit down with decision makers, you know, learn how their business takes, learn how they make money, and hopefully form a partnership. So 10 years from now, we'll still be in business will be bigger and better. And so will they and, you know, we'll be a value add partner, rather than just a money center.Ron Bockstahler  2:59  So Nate, how do you guys work with law firms, law firms kind of unique in what they need and what they do? So how does your Signature Bank really molded into let's face it, I got a reference to you from an attorney who's a good friend of mine said you got to talk to Signature Bank, the one of the best banks in Chicago for a lawyer.Nate Dinger  3:14  So sure, sure. So we've got a lot of different programs for law firms, given that no two law firms are identical, and none of them are exactly alike. So, you know, from your, your typical, you know, call it corporate law firm that, you know, has accounts receivable, so on and so forth. We've got programs designed for that type of firm, and we have a niche on the plaintiff side, that contingency fee firms that I don't think a lot of banks really appreciate, given the lumpy nature of their cash flow and the potential risk of losing a case here and there. We've developed a lot of specific programs around that, and not many banks, taking the time to understand how those businesses work. So I think that's something that that really sets us apart. We're also not scared of, you know, service industry clienteles, a lot of banks don't like that they like assets that they can touch, they like a building or a vehicle or something of that nature. But we really value service companies where we can meet the individuals learn how they work. And, you know, for lack of a better term, some cases, you know, we're betting on the jockeys and not the horses. So we understand the people that are running those institutions that I don't think a lot of banks really appreciate.Ron Bockstahler  4:21  Here, you bring up. I mean, basically, you're but you're an asset based lending institution. And if you're a law firm, your cases are your assets. Can you talk to how you guys look at a law firms cases? And how are they valued as an asset?Nate Dinger  4:35  Sure, sure. So there's a couple of different ways that you can, you know, put a value on and the first one is you take a look at the expenses that the firm has, has invested into their portfolio. So oftentimes, you'll see several 100,000 You know, million dollars, whatever it may be invested into a portfolio of matters and to us seeing that the firm has invested not only their time, but their dollars into these cases. How Get as comfortable. It also, in most cases, they don't have all their eggs in one basket. So, you know, diversification is an important thing for us in most situations that if something does go sideways, and heaven forbid, there's a loss, you know, at a trial or case settles for an amount less than the client had hoped for, that there's still work remaining that can, you know, get the clients pay, keep the firm running and, you know, ultimately get the bank paid back as well. We also firms in more in the mass tort, or class action space, we can value the projected proceeds from some of the larger the larger mass torts, larger cases out there, and lend back a percentage of the expected proceeds, you know, to those firms to help with, you know, their working capital, their ongoing expenses, and or continuing to build their portfolio. So those are just a couple of the different ways that we look at those.Ron Bockstahler  5:51  Some of them, can you talk to a little of some of the products, the loan types, your partner buy in buy? Let's, let's see firm acquisition loans, plan of early access loans, you guys, are you playing in those areas?Nate Dinger  6:05  Absolutely. Yeah, those all the above, I guess, would be the box check. You know, to that question, we do them all, every situation is a little bit different. You know, here's one that we're a unique loan that we're doing just as an example, right now, we've got a client that has a large verdict against a money good defendants, which has been appealed. And insurance company has offered to ensure their verdict in the event that something gets overturned in the appellate court or whatnot. So we're looking to help them finance the premium, which is a hefty sum, to ensure that case, and that's just one of the creative products, if you will, we have out there. But as far as you know, looking for a box to check to fit a firm into we don't really have one, we take a look at every, every firm and evaluate them individually, because it's tough to really, you know, although they both may be to plaintiff firms or baby to, you know, pick another genre, you know, they all don't operate the same. So we want to make sure we really understand each one and that, you know, its own merits, you know, can support we're looking to do.Ron Bockstahler  7:05  So now let's talk to some of the attorneys that are listening, and what should they be doing to prep or, you know, set up their law firm to be able to go out and work with a Signature Bank or receive the best, best quality financing for cases they're working on? What can they be doing today? If even before they have those cases?Nate Dinger  7:24  Absolutely. So I think the first thing is your financial reporting and your organization around your portfolio. Many times we get an introduction to a firm, and they really don't have good books and records demonstrating the portfolio of cases that they have. So we always recommend outside of just tr

Steve Mesirow is the Senior Managing Director in Mesirow Wealth Management and he has been providing expert investment advice and financial planning strategies to his clients for over 25 years. In this episode, Steve talks about how law businesses are at a disadvantage because they register their taxes at the highest rates. He discussed all the ways in which lawyers can build and protect their wealth in a tax-advantaged way. Through systems called Cash Balance Plan, Donor Advised Funds, Profit-sharing, or Roth IRA, lawyers can do their best at their career without losing any of their well-earned money. Steve also talks about all the ways in which his company helps people - lawyers or otherwise - worry about things that are impactful, helping them save money in ways that are meaningful in the big picture.  Timestamps:Building and protecting wealth through a cash balance plan(2:07)Deduction through donor advised funds (14:02)The difference between fiduciary and non-fiduciary (23:22)Saving money in meaningful ways  (26:41)  “The best use of your time is to work on your business and not be following down the rules of different financial planning aspects or chasing down a couple of stocks. That might not be the best utilization of your time.” - Steve Mesirow  Steve Mesirow: Mesirow FinancialWebsite: http://www.mesirowfinancial.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevenmesirow/ Steve Mesirow, Senior Managing Director in Mesirow FinancialWealth Management and Financial PlanningSteven Mesirow is a Senior Managing Director in Mesirow Wealth Management. He provides investment advice and financial planning strategies to individuals, business owners and charitable organizations that are designed to help accumulate, manage and preserve wealth.Steven joined the firm in 1993 and has more than 25 years of financial services experience.Steven serves on the Jewish United Fund Health and Human Services subcommittee. He has developed a social investment strategy; Mesirow Impact Management - a portfolio strategy that invests in companies with a positive corporate culture.Steven earned a Bachelor of Arts degree in history/political science from the University of Michigan, a Master of Arts in history from the University of Maryland and a Management Aptitude Test in teaching from the American University. Steve is a CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER™ (CFP®) professional and a Certified Fund Specialist™ (CFS™). LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevenmesirow/ Have comments, questions, or concerns? Contact us at feedback@1958lawyer.com Episode Transcript:Ron Bockstahler  0:29  Welcome to the 1958 lawyer. Great to have everyone here today. Our guest today is Steve Mesirow with Mesirow financial. If you're in Chicago, you definitely know Mesirow financial, one of the largest financial firms in the city, one of the top in the country. So see, let me give you a quick introduction. You know, we're just talking about this. So I'm going to mention that Steve's got a master's in history, a master's in teaching, started to go into teaching and then found his way back into financial planning, been doing it for 25 years now joined the firm that correct me if I'm wrong, Steve, but your grandfather founded. You joined the firm back in 1993. A couple things that I will I think are really, really great on Steve part is he's he serves on the Jewish United fund Health and Human Services Subcommittee. He's developed a social investment strategy Metro prot impact it Metro impact management, portfolio strategy that invests and invest in companies with a positive corporate culture. Steve's got a ton of things he's done. So I'll stop right there. I'll let Steve take off. Steve, welcome to the show. Great to have you.Steve Mesirow  1:30  Thank you, Ron, it's a pleasure to see you again.Ron Bockstahler  1:32  Yeah, we got to get into that Oh, whole history and teaching thing down the road. But, you know, let's start off. But you work with a lot of law firms, a lot of attorneys that make a lot of money, and how they can protect that money, and maybe keep more of it from taxes. Let's start there. And let's lay out a couple things I want to talk about today.Steve Mesirow  1:50  Sure. The first subject that I think you and I want to talk about as lawyers, we were just discussing lawyers, all of their income is ordinary income taxed at the at the highest rates. And so the issue with lawyers is how can we help them protect and build their wealth and do this in a tax advantaged way. And the most powerful tool out there to how to this is what's called a cash balance plan. And a cash balance plan is a supercharged retirement plan, which will let a attorney put let an individual put away somewhere around it depends on their age, but it could be around $200,000 A year of pre tax income, up to that amounts. And the way they get there is a regular 401k, you have your limits, you can put away a little bit each year with this works. The way cash balance plan works is you're giving yourself a very generous pension plan. And the government lets you put away a very generous pension plan where you get to fund about $2.6 million by the time you retire. And so they back into the math of that and say, Okay, if we're going to get to 2.6 million, and you're 50 years old, here's how much you'd have to put away each year to do that. And so you get to put it away in a tax advantaged account, which grows like gross, like any regular retirement plan. And then the end game, the end game usually is when you reach that when you reach that limit, you roll it into an IRA and take it out in your retirement. Like I like normal Ira distributions.Ron Bockstahler  3:34  Okay, ton of questions here. And I want to go back, we're going to talk about the cash balance plan first, and then I want to go back into a little bit of your history. Because I remember when I first I'll go there right now, I remember when I first met you I go man, the only Metro I know is like Metro financial, you know, the one whose names on that big building over there on Clark Street. And you go Yeah, yeah, that sounds like, wow, you're Steve mesereau. That's pretty impressive. So let's go right there real quick. And then we're going to come back to this balanced plan. Tell us the history and and how is it that we're talking with the Metro from Metro financial, which like I said, everyone in Chicago knows,Steve Mesirow  4:11  oh, my grandfather started. My grandfather started from actually, he was a he graduated law school before he was 21. And he had to wait when you couldn't take the bar until you were 21. So he took a job at an investment firm, and stayed in the business forever. So he started the firm about 84 years ago, as a one man shop, and then took on partners to kind of more partners. My father was partner number 10 and 1960. And we're now about 500. Now about 500 employees, of which about 200 are shareholders. So in many ways, a law firm is the only thing that is similar to that where you have such a diverse ownership of you have 200 Two donors in a 500 person and a 500 person firm. And, and what happens is, then that affects the culture that affects the culture of the firm, because you have so many owners walking through, and everyone is more concerned about where we're going to be five years from now than the next six months, there's no, there's no quarterly earning pressure. Because there's no outside, there's no outside shareholders, you can justRon Bockstahler  5:25  focus on the clients. And you have I mean, you have clients other than attorneys, but attorneys, I mean, the successful attorneys are making a lot of money. And as you and I talked about, it's a cash income. It's not like they're getting invested shares, stock options,Steve Mesirow  5:40  rights. So the problem attorneys face, I deal with wealthy individuals, and they generally have, yeah, I deal with wealthy individuals. And the problem attorneys face is all of their wealth is developed through ordinary income that's taxed at the highest rate, as opposed to, you know, I have clients who are small business owners, and some who are getting stock options from, from the public companies they work for, but the lawyer is faced with ordinary income. And, and your population is particularly, is particularly good, because they're all small business, they're all small business owners, as well. And as small business owners, there's some complications you have being a small business owner, there's definitely some challenges there. But there's also the other side of the coin is there's opportunities that you can change things and change the construct, so that it favors you. So that favors you. And you can take advantage of different of different things.Ron Bockstahler  6:43  Yeah, you're the you're the but the seven 800 law firms that I work with in a lotta they're right in this wheelhouse of, they're making quite often a lot of money. But what do you do how you got to pay your taxes, so then they're finding ways to go spend the money, maybe add an employee's they don't need it, which some people on the outside might look at and say, Well, why are they doing that with like, why not, because I'm going to pay taxes anyway, I'm just reducing my tax burden. But instead of spending money uselessly, where they're not really getting a true value on it, there's a cash balance plan, they could be throwing a couple $100,000, before taxes,Steve Mesirow  7:16  before taxes in your and your construct also works particularly well. Because when you set up a retirement plan, you have to include, you have to include all your employees. Now, that's not that big of a deal. And if you have, you know, a handful of employees, these plans still work really well. But if you outsource in your model, if you outsource your paralegal in your legal secretary and some other and some other functions, if you're the only employee, or if you're one of the only, if you're on one of the onl

Ryan Kimler is the Founder of Financial Clarity, working with solo and partner practice law firms, bringing them financial clarity to grow their law practice into successful and profitable businesses. In this episode, Ryan talks about how important financial discipline and accounting is for a law firm and how invaluable the guidance of a CFO or accountant can be on that regard. They also discuss how the CFO and accountant is not only useful for keeping your law firm financially uncompromised, but also to project future earnings and actions that must be taken to ensure the firm's profit for each of its members.  Timestamps:Why does a law firm need a CFO (0:50)Getting past the frustration of the financial aspect of running a law firm (10:15)Reducing the time spent trying to manage IOLTA accounts (19:03)Tips for saving your law firm’s funds and increasing it’s income(21:04) “Accounting and finance doesn’t have to be the scary part of your firm… we want to be your guide, help you out, give you a clear direction and clean financials and bring clarity around the numbers of your law firm” - Ryan Kimler Ryan Kimler, Financial ClarityWebsite: https://www.financialclarityllc.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryankfinancialclarityllc/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/rkimlerBlog: https://financialclarityllc.blogspot.com/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiLyqCOvxvnnlr3_6BOGqww Ryan Kimler, Founder of Financial ClarityCFO and Accounting for Law FirmsRyan Kimler is an Accountant and CFO. His passion is in helping attorneys run their law firm by the numbers to increase profitability and cash flow. He helps attorneys spend more time working on their business instead of in their business so that lawyers can get back to crushing their business instead of the other way around. LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryankfinancialclarityllc/ Have comments, questions, or concerns? Contact us at feedback@1958lawyer.com Episode Transcript:Ron Bockstahler  0:28  Welcome to the 1958 lawyer. I'm your host Ron box dollar. Today we are joined by CFO Ryan Kindler, founder of financial clarity. Ryan's firm works with solo and partner practice law firms, bringing them financial clarity to grow their law practice into successful and profitable business is something that we all want. Ryan, welcome to the show.Ryan Kimler  0:47  Thanks a lot, Ron. It's great to be here today.Ron Bockstahler  0:49  Absolutely. Let's get right down to it. I mean, why is the law firm need a CFO?Ryan Kimler  0:54  That's a great question. So a lot of people, you know, they hear the term CFO, and the first thing that they think of is probably Google, or Apple, right, some large company. And then I think I don't need a CFO, I'm just a small business owner, right? However, a CFOs job is really to track profit, and cash flow, and then go analyze the company's financial strengths and weaknesses, and process what the corrective actions should be. So even, you know, small businesses, you know, in order for them to continue to grow and be more profitable, they need a CFO, they need someone in their corner that can analyze the numbers, look at the financial strengths and weaknesses and propose corrective actions.Ron Bockstahler  1:37  It's interesting. I remember when PPP first came out back in was at April of 2020. And we did a live webinar on it trying to introduce a lot of our law firms to you can go get people, you're qualified, right, you qualify for PPP. But you have to have done last year's taxes. Yeah. And I was shocked at how many like, man, I'd like this is great, but I can't apply because I haven't even filed my 2019 taxes. Yeah, 2018? I think I was it was going back. And I was surprised with what I considered the financial, lack of financial discipline, it's so many firms. How can we change that what kind of process can be put in place? Let's say I'm a brand new attorney gonna go off on my own. Maybe I only have $500,000 book a business to start with. So it's not big, but yeah, potentially can grow? What do I need? How do I get started?Ryan Kimler  2:31  Yeah, absolutely. So you know, the big thing that, you know, we bring up to our clients when we're working with them is, you know, we, we really want to be their guide. And, you know, help them understand that accounting, and finance doesn't have to be the scary part of your firm, right? It doesn't have to be the unknown part that is like, I don't want to go talk to my accountant, right? You know, we want to be your guide we want, we want to be your friend, we want to help you out, we want to give you a clear direction and clean financials and bring you clarity around the numbers of your law firm. And I think that's what every firm needs. You know, one of the big things that's changed over the last five years is, you know, with technology and zoom and things like that, and we've advanced so far because of the pandemic, you know, attorneys, you can go out now and find accountants and CFOs that specialize in working with law firms, as our firm does. And you don't have to just go to the generalized accounting firm or the generalized bookkeeper down the street that handles everybody's small business and town. That's kind of a catch 22 because they aren't specialized. And so they don't necessarily know all the ins and outs of a law firm and how to help you. And as an owner, of a law firm, you don't necessarily know what's out there and what's available of how much help you can really get from a financial partner that can work with you that specializes in law firms, and has been exposed to lots of different law firms and lots of different systems.Ron Bockstahler  3:59  Ryan, let's talk a little bit the financial model. I think a lot of firms say I'm a to partner law firm, and we're ready to hire someone. Yeah, put some numbers behind it. What's it mean to hire somebody? I mean, do they? I mean, can you help them? financially justify the higher I guess is the question.Ryan Kimler  4:17  Yeah, absolutely. So the, you know, a lot of our clients we put on profit first, which if you're not familiar, it's basically a way of dividing your income that comes into the firm into a few different buckets. So you can cover your owner payments, your taxes and your operating expenses. And so one of the first things that we look at is, you know, what's it going to cost to hire this person. And for that, we use a couple different online tools to calculate like payroll taxes and estimated benefit costs and things like that. Do you have the money that's been allocated into your operating expense bucket to go out and hire that person, because if you don't have the money, you can't hire the person, right? And then you just, you're just going to be shorting yourself profit and cash flow in the future. So that's one of the First things that we look at and then one of the second things we look at is okay, let's say you do have the money, and you do have enough in your operating expenses with paying all your other bills paying everything else. What can you expect that person to bring in and get, you know, as far as an handle as far as a caseload so that hiring that person is not just a cost, but it actually is, brings value to your firm, and you're bringing in more money. So those are the big two things that we start with and look at the first one being, can you even afford it?Ron Bockstahler  5:32  Right? Are you familiar with it? Or I guess I know you're familiar with it. But let's talk to the third, third, third, if you're a large law firm, or accounting firm, I think they have real similar models, you're going to hire a an associate, I think even a partner you'd look at, okay, your salary is going to be a third overheads going to be a third, which is their benefits, office space, whatever it takes to employ them. And then a third is profits. Yep. So I think too many firms Don't think like that, or small firms Don't think like that. They just, Oh, I got a lot of work, I'm gonna go hire someone, but say I bring someone in for $100,000. Are they going to generate $300,000? in revenue?Ryan Kimler  6:07  Right? Yeah, that's, that's tough. And yeah, and I think a lot of attorneys, you know, don't look at that right away. And that's probably one of the first things that they should be looking at. And, you know, I, we have definitely come into firms where, you know, we put them into a profit first system, and unfortunately, you know, we kind of figure out through some analysis that they've hired too quickly. And then they have to go have the unfortunate conversation of letting someone go, I mean, that's tough. But like you said, you know, using the third, third, third rule, looking in advance, before you ever hire that person is really, you know, is doing your due diligence is really what should happen.Ron Bockstahler  6:47  But we deal with that on the staffing side, they go hire a paralegal, but they don't got enough work, you know, fulfill the third, third, third model, which means they're giving up their profits. Yeah, it's interesting. Let's talk a little bit about banks. I know we chatted offline just a little bit. You know, I know I've gone to banks, and I've gone to investors and other businesses, and it's, you got to have someone in your corner. Yeah. How do you help law firms either go secure financing, I guess, what's the question?Ryan Kimler  7:15  So the first thing is, is that any bank you go to, as far as going to get funding, you're going to have clean books, you're gonna have to have, you know, all of your expenses updated, and all of your, you know, up to date financial statements. So that's the first thing that CFOs can help with, as well, as you know, then once you have those financial statements, your CFO is going to know those financial statements and know what's going on, know how cash flows through your business. And having a CFO or a financial professional in your corner, when you go to a bank to go ge

Gregg Garofalo is the Founding Partner at Garofalo Law Group, he has been practicing law for 20 years with a strong focus on probate matters and estate planning. Gregg talks about when it’s right to do estate planning and what are some basic estate planning one should have outright. Gregg also talks about estate planning if you have a special needs child, how you can maximize their benefit to give them the best care they can receive from both your estate and the government. Lastly, he talks about how estate planning must be revisited at least annually to review how it can be adjusted to changes in the family’s life, decisions, circumstances, or just life in general.  Timestamps:When is a good time to consider estate planning? (7:35)A guardianship estate for your college kids(12:35)Setting up a special needs trust (14:39)Estate planning and COVID, Cryptocurrency, and other changes(22:35) “It’s never early to start planning - literally, we tell parents that when your kids turn 18, they should come in and do the basic estate plan...” - Gregg Garofalo Gregg Garofalo of Garofalo Law GroupWebsite: www.glgfirm.comTwitter: https://twitter.com/GreggGarofaloLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregg-garofalo/ Gregg Garofalo, Founding Partner at Garofalo Law GroupEstate PlanningGregg has been practicing law for the past 20 years with a strong focus on probate matters and estate planning. As a father of a daughter with special needs, he is passionate about educating families on how they can achieve their estate planning goals. As a result of Gregg’s vast experience, character and devotion to clients, the families he serves can rest assured that he will do everything he can to meet all of their expectations. Gregg is frequently appointed by the Court to serve as a Guardian ad litem in Guardianship matters. He is also routinely appointed by the Court as a Special Administrator in complex probate matters.Gregg is an active member of the legal community, where he is serving or has served in several leadership roles within the Illinois Bar Association and the Chicago Bar Association. Gregg is a past Chair of the Chicago Bar Association’s Probate Practice Committee, where he served two years as Chair. Gregg is also a past Chair of the Illinois State Bar Association’s Young Lawyers Division, a member of the Trusts & Estates Council, and starting his third term as a member of the General Assembly after taking the mandatory one year off between terms.Gregg serves as a member of the Illinois State Bar Association’s mentor program, and a speaker in the area of probate and trusts and estates.In addition to his passion for law, Gregg works with professional and civic organizations. Gregg has worked with the Children’s Assistance Fund and the Illinois Bar Foundation chairing their annual holiday party, which has grossed over $150,000 during his ten-year involvement. Gregg is also a Past President of the Justinian Society of Lawyers, a past board member of the Italian American Political Coalition, and a board member of the Justinian Society Children’s Endowment Fund. In addition, Gregg volunteers for the Central Illinois Sheltie Rescue. LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregg-garofalo/ Have comments, questions, or concerns? Contact us at feedback@1958lawyer.com Episode Transcript:Ron Bockstahler  0:29  Welcome to the 1958 lawyer. Good to have you here. today. We got an outstanding guest, by the way, I'm your host, Ron inboxdollars. So my good friend, Attorney Greg Garofalo is joining us today Greg has been practicing law for more than 20 years helping families achieve their long range goals through proper estate planning Greg's a father to a daughter with special needs. So he has Insider's an insider's view and planning for a child's long term care. He also serves as a court appointed to guardianship matters in guardianship matters, and complex probate matters. God I've known Greg for 20 plus years, his activities in legal and charitable organizations are too many to mention, but he does serve in leadership roles with the Illinois Bar Association, the Chicago Bar Association, he's the chair of the CPAs, probate practice committee president or past president of the Justinian Society of lawyers. He's a board member with Justinian society, children's endowment fund, where he's helped raise a lot of money. And maybe most important of all, he's a volunteer with the central Illinois Sheltie rescue, Greg's had many, many shelties, since I've known as well kind of chat a little about that, Greg, welcome to the show.Gregg Garofalo  1:29  Oh, thanks, Brian. Thanks a lot. I appreciate it. And Glad to be here. Thanks for the introduction. I just want to say a lot of those board member positions with ISBA and CBA. Those were a lot of those were in the past since the one board that I takes up most of my time is the board member of my family. And I say board member because I'm not the chair.Ron Bockstahler  1:48  Yeah, to your youngest turns four here coming up in October. Yeah, yeah. And I just started kindergarten. So yep. And become time consuming.Gregg Garofalo  1:57  They do. And Rebecca, Rebecca, my wife, our Rebecca systems, people that Rebecca is also aware and she practices. So it keeps us busy. It keeps me busy.Ron Bockstahler  2:10  So you want to talk about that raising children being and keeping your law practice going. I think it's amazing. So we're gonna get that in a minute. But let's kind of talk off a lot of people that maybe know you don't know that you started your career as an accountant, your CPA. So talk to us how you became how you kind of moved into being an attorney.Gregg Garofalo  2:25  So and I know this can be added around. So just for clarification, I have an accounting background accounting degree from Illinois Western University. I graduated in 1992. With the idea that I was going to be practicing as an accountant, I ended up getting the family business full time, which I've been working in ever since I was 13 years old, which was running a restaurant. And so I did that for four years before I went to law school and going to law school, I knew what I wanted to do going in, which is kind of what I wanted to do. Even as I was graduating from undergrad, I wanted to work with families, I wanted to work with small businesses. Part of that was because I came from a family that owns a small business because I felt like I can really help them and be a part of their overall team and their business. And so going into law school, I knew that I wanted to do estate planning with them with my background and tax planning for my background with taxes. I thought it was a really good fit. And I finished up my law school my JD and started working for Ernst and Young and their tax consulting department. And while working there, I went on to get my masters in tax from Chicago, Kent university or Chicago Kent College of Law. So I've got my JD in masters of tax from Kent as well and my undergrad in accounting, and I stayed with Ernst and Young for a couple years before I started to go to private practice.Ron Bockstahler  3:40  So let's think back What year did you start your practice are your own practiceGregg Garofalo  3:44  1999 2000 and graduated, I graduated my way of switching I graduated law school in 99. Got my master's degree in 2000. Worked for a firm for four years, and then I started my own practice in 2004.Ron Bockstahler  3:57  Okay, okay, so and then let's kind of fast forward a little bit. I think you were ahead of your time you moved to Georgia, you moved your family to Georgia while maintaining a law practice in Chicago. So let's talk about you know, how do you do law different what technology are you using? How do you make it happen? I guess that's the let's start there.Gregg Garofalo  4:14  Sure. So when my what my met my wife in Chicago, I met Rebecca in Chicago. She's a practicing attorney with the law school here when we got married and decided to start a family. Rebecca is from Northwest Georgia, just south of Chattanooga. So we decided to go back maybe close to her family. She's got a twin sister and two other sisters to help raise our family. And so Rebecca was working with the firm at that time as well. So we were faced with the challenge of how do we make this work, a practice that I've had in Chicago for over at that point over 12 years? How do we keep that practice and operated from Georgia and be successful? So yeah, when I started my practice, even before that, I tried to institute software and plant management software which I think helped a lot and keeping things all digital because We early on, we tried to keep our files all digital, scanning all the important documents and keeping them online. So when we decided to start to make this transition, I didn't have to have my files with me, I didn't have to be in the office because I could pull up our client management software. And at that point, probably about 70% of the documents were already scanned in the system. So if I needed something was all right there.Ron Bockstahler  5:19  No, I make funny a quite a bit. I call you a gate because you know, you're more of a techie than your attorney sometimes, or maybe both. I don't know. But how does someone that don't love technology like you do? How do they do it?Gregg Garofalo  5:30  In all honesty, if you're if you're technology adverse, all I can say is then you have to work with somebody, you have to work with a firm, you know, even like all like Amada, you'd have to work with a firm that has the experience that can guide and guide you through it, because there's just no avoiding it. And we've seen that now with COVID. I won't say his name, but you know, my next door neighbor here in my office suite who's very technology adverse and always has been as long as I've known him. And now with COVID pandemic, he said he doesn't want to come back to the office and work if he had a choice because he likes it and he

Megan Mathias is the Founder of Lopp Mathias Law, she represents business owners with challenges relating to corporate governance, employment issues, shareholder disputes, Family Law disputes and contract issues. Megan talks about how entrepreneurial knowledge and creating a united culture is important in building a good law firm. She talks about how her law firm started out as a virtual service and how that benefit both the clients and lawyers. Megan also talks about how she was able to manage her time in a season where she had to juggle a lot of responsibilities. They also talk a bit about political issues that need to be addressed and some of Megan's positions on issues as a candidate for Alderman. Timestamps:How it’s like to start a legal office virtually (4:03)Educating yourself on entrepreneurship even as a lawyer (9:03)Time Management techniques - delegating tasks and investing on people (13:01)Political philosophy and issues that must be resolved (16:54) “It's not that I'm a superwoman although there are days I feel like I had to be a superwoman to get through that. But it's also about hiring the right people... outsourcing the things that you're not good at. I know what I'm great at. I know what I'm not great at. I'll still get it done but it may not be my hands on it.” - Megan Mathias Megan MathiasWebsite: https://www.loppmathiaslaw.com/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/LoppMathiasLaw/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meganmathias/ Megan Mathias, Founder of LOPP MATHIAS LAW Family LawBio: Megan Mathias is a fierce advocate and compassionate defender of the rights of entrepreneurs, women, children, and BIPOC. After 14 years lawyering for mid to large size law firms, becoming a Partner, and winning over $70 million in commercial and family law cases, Megan knew it was time for a change. Increasingly frustrated with the inefficiencies she saw in large law firms, and not happy with their prioritization of billable hours over-delivering value and results for her clients, Megan knew she could do much better.She decided to create her own firm, Lopp Mathias Law, driven by her values, her standards, and her integrity. To that end, Megan created an innovative and fast-growing firm of like-minded attorneys. She incorporated state of the art technology for document automation and assembly, better billing practices and alternative fee arrangements to reduce legal fees for her clients. Driven by efficiency and effectiveness, Megan also designed her firm to provide a wide array of specialized legal services through her unique Affiliate Network without the typical law firm overhead and passes those cost savings onto her clients. She is committed to being a loyal and long-term partner for her clients, as she guides them through challenging legal periods in their lives with skill and compassion.Megan has been recognized for her sophisticated representation in trade secret and other cases involving complex e-discovery issues and forensic analysis of electronically stored information. Megan co-chairs the Seventh Circuit Council on Data Privacy and Digital Information.Megan is dedicated to her community. She serves on the Boards of the YWCA Metropolitan Chicago, Coalition of Women’s Initiatives in Law, FLASH (Force of Lawyers Against Sexual Harassment), and the Filament Theater.  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meganmathias/Have comments, questions, or concerns? Contact us at feedback@1958lawyer.com Episode Transcript:Ron Bockstahler  0:28  Hello and welcome to the show the 1958 lawyer where we talk about the changing landscape in the legal industry. Our guest today is Megan Mathias founding partner of Mathias law. She represents business owners with challenges relating to corporate governance, employment issues, shareholder disputes, Family Law disputes and contract issues. And you're gonna have a lot of fun listening to Megan, she's got a ton of energy and she's done just a million things and we really want to find out how she does it. Also, she's an advocate for women and black indigenous and people of color. She sits on many boards, including the YWCA Metropolitan of Chicago, lifespan building, elementary school is co chair of the steering committee, state courts, small case project teams for the Seventh Circuit, electronic mess that Megan you're gonna have, tell us about that. Okay. And now she's decided she's gonna run for the 45th Ward alderman in Chicago to make where she lives a better place. Megan, welcome to the show.Megan Mathias  1:20  Thank you. Thanks so much. Thanks for having me.Ron Bockstahler  1:22  All right, let's get started with Where'd you come from? And how did you get to where you're at? Let's start from the beginning. Because you got to goMegan Mathias  1:28  from a small town in Michigan, very small Tom dirt road, even my mom still lives on the same dirt road. first generation college students sell through college at Michigan State and then came to Chicago in 2000, for law school, and obviously got through law school, and was practicing and bigger firms for a significant portion of my career. But I always one of the only females, I was one of the only females in litigation and a big firm, then I went to a smaller firm where I was one of the only female partners. And I thought, since I was, you know, higher up on this on the hierarchy, that I would have some more impact on some of the things I cared about. But it's still hard in law firms are like big institutions with their own culture and their own rules. And I'm a disrupter. So I didn't, it wasn't the same that I that I how I wanted to practice. So even the marketing people would come to me and say, we're having trouble kind of getting your message with the rest of the firm. So I compensated people differently. I ran my teams differently. I wanted to use different technology. So anyway, in 2018, I started my own practice.Ron Bockstahler  2:33  Let's talk about your own practice. Because in 2020, your you won an award from legal tech, what did you win? And why did you win it? And what are you doing differently?Megan Mathias  2:40  It's an American technology award, because I've been working on legal tech for quite some time, as I sat on the steering committee for the Seventh Circuit used to be called pilot program for ediscovery. And it is the group that helps form the rules that were adopted by most jurisdictions around the country and how you handle electronic information. So in any litigation, it's important. So of course, now photos, and everything has metadata attached to it, how you manage that in litigation is obviously really important. So that was the starting of getting involved in technology as it relates to the legal field, you know, 10 or 15 years ago, whenever that was, and then it's now like I said, when I started my own firm, we were already paperless, I started it with a completely different model business model, I compensate the lawyers differently. Like the whole, everything I do is different. And I think better and faster and more efficient and allows me to get flexibility to my clients. And you know, there were some bumps along the way, you know, I learned a lesson here or there as to you know, why the business model what the downside of some of these models are, I understand it, but I think it's worth the risk and clients know now. I mean, they know they're looking for flexibility, even big clients, they want to know that you're monitoring and you have metrics around some of your productivity and how you bill and that kind of thing. So it's beenRon Bockstahler  3:58  okay, so give me some let's get into the meat so it's different. What exactly are you doing different?Megan Mathias  4:03  So pre COVID we started in 2018. I started a paperless office, everything was virtual anyway, so my lawyers can work from anywhere. One of my struggles and bigger firms is that you have service partners, all of whom I like so I'm not talking trash about my old partners, but their job is to service the work that we the business developers bring in so there's some inefficiency there's they're pulling significant salaries that obviously impact your overhead but their job is not to go get business that was and so they're waiting there they like a specialist I was give this example is like a 409 a it's a complex tax issue that I know nothing about when to have a 409 expert you have you know person pulling a major salary and you're just have to go get the business to have this person working on it, or you I have contracts with even big firms that have specialists on the issues that I need for my clients and I can still operate full service but I don't have a couple million dollars in overhead sitting and waiting for me to bring them in. So I have some staff lawyers and but I use virtual assistants. And this was all pre COVID, virtual assistants, I use contractors, but I have contracts with them for quality standards and responsiveness and stuff like that. And then as it relates to more more complex and sophisticated issues, I have vendors, which are largely law firms and and that will handle those kind of issues. So it's a completely different business model.Ron Bockstahler  5:24  So when we talk about the business concept, you're using the practice management software, you're up in the cloud. So technology is kind of driving your firm, not the old school, we need 25 people sitting on staff to, you know, type a letter type thing, right, exactly. Right. Okay. Excellent. And that's working out? Well,Megan Mathias  5:39  it's working out well, in the bigger, more sophisticated clients really appreciate it. And they don't expect it because we're technically on paper, a small firm, but we're small but mighty, because we have, like I said, we have the full serve, we can cover any almost anything except for intellectual property speeds, and but in a sophisticated way, with the right kind of staff and a very thoughtful process. And as it r