B2B Marketers on a Mission

How to Scale Faster with B2B Brand Strategy Here’s a common scenario in B2B marketing: you launch campaigns, hit the deadlines, and fill the pipeline, but the results feel disconnected from your long-term goals. Internal messaging discussions resurface, campaigns feel shallow and reactive, and when you ask people what your brand stands for, you get 50 different answers. This inconsistent approach creates friction and impedes scalable growth. So what can B2B marketers do when their tactical execution is outpacing their brand strategy, and how to do you realign for lasting impact? That’s why we’re talking to JoAnne Gritter (COO, ddm marketing + communications), who shares her expertise and actionable insights on how to scale faster with B2B brand strategy. During our conversation, JoAnne underscored why a foundational strategy is crucial for building credibility and trust in competitive markets. She also discussed the role of AI in marketing, commenting that while it can support with idea generation and research, it shouldn’t replace direct communication with customers and employees. JoAnne shared some common pitfalls such as messaging misalignment and inconsistent branding, which can lead to distrust and reduced credibility, She explained the importance of having a cohesive brand strategy that aligns values, messaging, and customer experiences across all company touchpoints through proactive brand management. https://youtu.be/_Alwkinhw-g Topics discussed in episode: [02:36] The “Soul vs. Body” framework: Why marketing is just the body in action, while brand strategy is the soul that provides direction and values.  [06:51] Red flags that your marketing has outpaced your strategy: When content feels fragmented and sales teams are telling completely different stories.  [08:52] Defining true brand strategy: Moving beyond logos and colors to include deep research, stakeholder analysis, and internal alignment.  [14:41] The critical differences between a brand refresh (auditing existing assets), a complete revamp (starting from scratch), and branding during a merger.  [24:10] Actionable steps you can take to realign your brand: – Audit your customer journey – Define messaging pillars – Ensure HR and onboarding match the brand promise  [29:37] Why “data-only” marketing fails: The importance of human emotion and psychology that performance data often misses.  Companies and links mentioned: JoAnne Gritter on LinkedIn  ddm marketing + communications  Transcript JoAnne Gritter, Christian Klepp JoAnne Gritter  00:00 AI can be used as a tool. It should not replace thinking and actually talking to your customers and your employees and your sales team. So you can use AI as a crutch to to like, ask it for ideas, idea generation. You can use it for deep research on your on your audience, and stuff like that. But nothing replaces the gold standard of talking to people. I see this in messaging misalignment or content misalignment. If content feels like it’s been written by four different people or completely different companies, that’s a red flag. Christian Klepp  00:37 This is a common scenario for B2B Marketers. You launch campaigns, hit the deadlines and fill the pipeline. It all looks great on paper, but something is still off internal messaging discussions resurface. Campaigns feel shallow and reactive, and when you ask people what the brand stands for, you get 50 different answers. So what can B2B Marketers do when their marketing is outpacing their brand strategy? Welcome to this episode of the B2B Marketers in the Mission podcast, and I’m your host, Christian Klepp, today, I’ll be talking to JoAnne Gritter, who will be answering this question. She’s a member of the leadership team at DDM Marketing Communications that provides integrated marketing solutions to drive business success. Tune in to find out more about what this B2B Marketers Mission is and here we go. JoAnne Gritter, welcome to the show. JoAnne Gritter  01:25 Hi Christian. Happy to be here. Christian Klepp  01:27 We you know, we had such a wonderful, like, pre-interview conversation. I almost feel like we’re neighbors or something, and something to that extent. But I’m, I’m really, like, happy to have you on the show, and I’m really looking forward to this conversation, because this topic is, I’m a little bit biased because I am in the branding space, so it’s a bit near and dear to my heart, but it’s also something that’s extremely important, because you’ll agree. I mean, you, I know you’ll agree because you wrote an article about it. JoAnne Gritter  01:54 Yeah Christian Klepp  01:55 It’s something that marketing teams tend to overlook. And good, goodness gracious me, I’m gonna, like, stop keeping people in suspense. We’ll just jump right in all right. JoAnne Gritter  02:04 Okay Christian Klepp  02:04 So JoAnne, you’re on a mission to provide integrated marketing solutions that drive B2B business success. So for this conversation, let’s focus on this topic, how brand strategy helps B2B organizations to realign for long term growth. So I’m going to kick off this conversation with the following question. In our previous conversation, our previous discussion, you talked about how marketing without a brand is a strategy without a soul. Could you please explain what you meant by that? JoAnne Gritter  02:36 So I just made the comparison kind of to the whole human, as in, like the brand is your soul, meaning like your values, what drives you, why you’re here, what differentiates you, what makes you different than the person standing next to you, whereas, like marketing is your body in action, or action in general, where you hopefully, if you if you’re a trustworthy person, what is, what are your values internally are matching your actions externally? And that is often where we see a divergent in companies, because they don’t think about those as like two sides of the same coin. It is really important that you make sure that you know the direction that you’re going as a company and what you stand for and who you’re there to support or serve, and what markets you’re there to do, and like your whole company, everybody that’s part of interfacing with customers understands that and is and is speaking the same language. Christian Klepp  03:37 Yeah, no, absolutely. And I suppose the the follow up question to that is like, where do you see a lot of, like, marketing teams go wrong. Because, like, you know, more often than not, a lot of teams are like, Okay, we’ve we’ve implemented the campaigns check. We’re generating results and driving pipeline or filling the pipeline, rather check. So where does it all go wrong? JoAnne Gritter  04:00 If you are not paying attention to your branding, you can have a lot of activity without a lot of traction. So or you can have a lot of different messages going out that seem not cohesive or fragmented. And so you can or more examples you can have, like your sales folks going out and telling different stories about about what your company stands for and what you do and how you’re different, that creates a lot of waste, because then you’re continuously trying to get more activity and more campaigns going more sales people out there, because you’re not getting the quality leads that you need, because nobody really knows what you stand for. Everybody says it a little bit differently, and that goes for customer service too. Branding. People think about branding as a marketing problem, or a marketing, you know, teams problem. But if, let’s say part of your brand is your brand identity or values is to put the customer. First, if you don’t really solidify that from your sales team and your customer support team, then there would be a mismatch there, right then you’re just putting out into the world that customers first, but that doesn’t match up with what the customer is experiencing. Christian Klepp  05:16 Yeah, there’s certainly some kind of misalignment there, and you touched on it, like, briefly. It’s interesting to me, like, even in my own experience, one of the telltale signs of that is when you ask people within the organization, well, what makes you different? And you get 50 different answers, and some of them are similar, and some of them are completely, like, different. And it’s like, okay, yep, okay, I see where this is going, or to your to your other point, when sales teams are having those discovery calls, and you listen back to some of those recordings, which I hope you marketing people out there are doing, and you listen to the way that the sales deal with objections, and maybe the procurement team or people like, you know, on the prospect side, they’re probably not phrasing it exactly the way I’m going to say it right now, but like, but they probably are asking something to the effect of, okay, what makes you different from vendor B, C and D, right? What is different about your solution? Like, why are you charging this guy? Why are your rates like, this high. JoAnne Gritter  05:16 Right. Absolutely. And if they have different answers, or if you go and you listen in on four different sales calls and they’re all a little bit different, then that tells you have a branding issue that people don’t fully understand your brand and how you’re different and who you support and serve. Christian Klepp  05:16 Yep, absolutely, absolutely. So you’ve touched on it a little bit, but like, tell us about some more of these. I’m going to call them red flags, right? That signal when marketing has outrun brand strategy. JoAnne Gritter  05:16 Sure, I see this in messaging misalignment or content misalignment. If content feels like it’s been written by four different people or completely different companies, that’s a red flag. If, like we mentioned, your sales team talks about your company completely differently, it’s okay that they put their own little spin on it, as long as you’re still hitting like the purpose of your company, why you’re here, how y

How to Fix Boring Brand Podcasts If we’re going to be perfectly honest, many branded podcasts are either boring or they sound just like a recycled commercial. To win the hearts and minds of your B2B target audience, you must move beyond generic corporate messaging and create high-quality content that addresses your listeners’ needs. So how can brands produce engaging content that will resonate with their audiences, and what strategic role does B2B storytelling play?That’s why we’re talking to Jen Moss (Co-Founder and Chief Creative Officer, JAR Podcast Solutions), who shared her expertise and strategic insights on how to fix boring brand podcasts. During our conversation, Jen discussed the importance of creating engaging brand podcasts that build trust and loyalty. She explained why B2B podcasts should go beyond product promotion and focus on deeper stories and societal issues. Jen also highlighted the need for creative courage, proper planning, rigorous pre-production, and engagement with the audience. She advised against rushing into production without proper ideation and marketing budget. Jen also underscored the power of authentic B2B storytelling and cautioned against relying too heavily on AI for content creation. https://youtu.be/sVlsvotzFEE Topics discussed in episode: [02:22] The definition of a successful brand podcast: It shouldn’t just be a CEO talking about products, but rather a way to facilitate deeper conversations on industry issues.  [05:12] Why brands need “creative courage” to stand out in a saturated market, including experimenting with fiction or narrative formats.  [08:32] How to tell a good B2B story by focusing on “beats,” high stakes, and the transparent struggle rather than just the solution.  [17:28] The top pitfalls in podcasting: Failing to budget for marketing, ignoring audience analytics, and drop-off rates.  [29:25] A real-world example of how Genome BC used human storytelling to make complex scientific topics accessible and engaging.  [37:40] Why using AI purely for speed and volume is a mistake, and why the mission of podcasting should be connection, not efficiency. Companies and links mentioned: Jen Moss on LinkedIn  JAR Podcast Solution  Genome BC Bumper Ira Glass Cory Doctorow Nice Genes! Podcast Another Round Podcast Hot Ones Podcast Transcript Christian Klepp, Jen Moss Jen Moss  00:00 Podcasting, especially audio podcasting, I will say, is a sacred space between the ears. You are literally whispering in people’s ears if they don’t like what they’re hearing, if they start to feel like you’re shilling to them, they will yank out the earbuds and it’s game over for you. Christian Klepp  00:17 If we’re going to be perfectly honest, many brand podcasts are either boring or they just sound like a commercial. To win the hearts and minds of your target audience, you need to create content that serves your listeners and is something they actually want to hear. So how can you achieve that? And what role does B2B Marketing play in producing successful brand podcasts? Welcome to this episode of the B2B Marketers in the Mission podcast, and I’m your host, Christian Klepp, today I’ll be talking to Jen Moss, who will be answering that question. She is the Co-Founder and Chief Creative Officer of JAR Podcast Solutions, which helps create quality podcasts that earn trust. Tune in to find out more about what this B2B Marketers Mission is, okay, and I’m gonna say, Jen Moss, welcome to the show. Jen Moss  01:05 Thank you so much for having me. Christian Klepp  01:07 Great to have you on. We’ve had such a fantastic conversation before. I hit record. I probably should have recorded this earlier, but in any case, Jen Moss  01:14 Yes, if anyone needs any parenting tips, we got your back. Christian Klepp  01:18 Absolutely, absolutely that that book is coming out soon on Amazon. I’m just kidding, But Jen, really looking forward to this conversation, because, man, we are going to cover a topic which, you know, might rock the boat a little bit, but it’s all, you know, constructive, and you know, it’s all for the sake of growing in a positive way, right? Jen Moss  01:35 I think so, Christian Klepp  01:36 At least I like to think so. Jen Moss  01:38 That is the goal. Christian Klepp  01:39 Absolutely, absolutely, all right, so here it comes. So Jen, you’re on a mission to help brands craft story first, podcasts that earn trust, build loyalty and connect deeply with the audiences that matter most. So for today’s conversation, I’d like to zero in on the following topic. Here comes how to fix boring brand podcasts. I know we’ve got a ton to talk about, but let’s kick off this conversation with two questions, and I’m happy to repeat them. So what is it about brand podcasting that you wish more people understood? And number two is, where do most brand podcasts go wrong. Jen Moss  02:22 Okay, so those are both great questions, so that what is a branded podcast is probably a good place to start. A lot of people might think that it’s, you know, the CEO of a company talking about their products and services ad nauseam. And if you happen to want to buy those products and services, maybe you would listen to it, because you could get more information, like, kind of an informational, almost transactional thing. I think that’s what a lot of people imagine when they hear the words branded podcast. However, that there’s a lot more to branded podcasting than that, and a lot of the smarter sort of, I would say, savvy brands, the ones with kind of sophisticated marketing campaigns that are multifaceted, are looking at podcasting as a way to tell deeper stories, engage with conversations that are ongoing in society that really matter so, sort of a chance for the brand to show its stripes a little bit, and an opportunity to offer something to a target audience that is sort of like a kind of a gift. You know, like we’re going to give you something of value that you actually will benefit from or enjoy, learn something from, be emotionally moved by, you know, hear a good story, and it’ll be in an area that the brand cares about, that that kind of ticks the boxes in terms of, like, what are the brand’s values, but is not specifically, and this is very important, is not specifically related to the brand’s products and services, per se. So it’s more like, okay, the brand maybe exists in a certain wider industry, and there’s an issue in that industry that keeps coming up, or a new technology that’s affecting everything, something like that, something that needs to be talked about. And so they’ll, they’ll set out to kind of facilitate those kinds of conversations through their podcasts. And a branded podcast doesn’t need to be just a one on one interview. It could be, it could be a fiction podcast if you were feeling extra frisky and creative that day, you know, if you wanted to do something fun, like I had a conversation with a solar company not that long ago, and we actually pitched them a fiction podcast about a world powered by sun. And because we thought the opportunity for a solar panel company to sponsor a fiction podcast about a world powered by sun like sci-fi would be, would be exciting and different. Christian Klepp  05:11 How did that go? Jen Moss  05:12 Yeah, well, we didn’t end up getting that job because they didn’t have the creative courage to do it. And so this is, this is the kind of conversation that I’m always on with brands is like, have the creative courage to do something that’s a little out of the ordinary because there’s 500 million podcasts or whatever, so you’ve got to stand out. And so you’ve got to think about how to stand out, and one of the best ways to do that is to do something different that hasn’t been done before. For example, there is a great branded fiction podcast called Murder in HR, and it’s by an online HR platform company. And, you know, like, it’s just a scripted fiction true, true crime. It’s not really true because it’s scripted fiction podcast. But, you know, it’s kind of different and fun. So, so there’s stuff like that. There’s, you know what we would call narrative podcasting, which is a mixture of script and clip, where you’re kind of combining on scene recordings with interview tape, with narration, and kind of thoughtfully braiding all those things together, like an NPR (National Public Radio) storytelling experience or a CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) storytelling experience. So there’s all of that that can be part of branded podcasting, and so I just frankly think it’s kind of lazy when brands just decide that they’re going to talk about themselves indefinitely in a podcast. If I want to learn about a brand, I and buy something from them, I’ll go to their website. But if the brand wants to win hearts and minds and raise awareness and build trust and kind of operate on that deeper level to widen their impact. That’s where a podcast, and sponsoring a podcast, or getting behind the production of a podcast can really help. So that’s, I mean, I guess that kind of answers your second question, where do brands go wrong? And it’s usually with just doing the obvious, doing the thing that they think is the most direct route to a customer. And with podcasting, I try to remind people there is a difference between a customer and an audience. A customer is someone who already, at least wants to know more about your product and is thinking of buying maybe they’ve bought from you before. An audience may include those customers, but it may include other people as well who have a wider array of interests and are not yet, do not yet know that they need to buy a new pair of running shoes, but then the next time they need a new pair of running shoes, they may think of you because of that excellent podcast they listen to where you had all those celebrities on talking about the things that motivate them to push harder and go faster, right? So it’s just sort of, it’s a little bit of a

How to Use AI for B2B Storytelling Without Losing Your Brand So many B2B companies and marketing teams waste budget on generic content that fails to resonate or support core business goals. In an era where AI-generated is everywhere, smaller B2B brands often struggle to maintain a unique identity while competing against larger firms with massive content engines. The key to staying relevant lies in a B2B brand’s ability to be authentic, human-centric, and strategically consistent despite the pressure to automate everything. So how can B2B brands effectively integrate AI into their marketing workflows without losing their unique voice and brand integrity? That’s why we’re talking to Nick Usborne (Founder, Story Aligned), who shared his expertise on leveraging AI through the lens of strategic storytelling. During our conversation, Nick discussed the critical distinction between simple narrative and a brand’s unique story, highlighting a significant gap where only 7% of top AI prompt libraries actually focus on storytelling. He shared actionable advice on building a “story vault,” training staff to avoid “brand drift,” and enforcing consistent AI usage to maintain the trust of the audience. Nick also underscored the importance of keeping human elements at the forefront of content creation to prevent AI from feeling overly mechanical, and advocated for a balanced approach that ensures scalable growth without sacrificing a brand’s authenticity. https://youtu.be/dtgvg2-XXoU Topics discussed in episode: [02:53] The “Why” Behind AI Adoption: Why companies must embrace AI not just for efficiency, but to avoid being left behind by competitors who are already scaling their reach.  [04:10] The “Moat” of Storytelling: Why narrative and voice can be easily copied by AI, but your brand’s unique “lived story” is the only defensible moat you have.  [11:27] Pitfalls of Inconsistent AI Use: The dangers of “shadow AI” use by employees (e.g., Using personal accounts vs. company custom GPTs) and how it leads to brand drift.  [16:46] The Human Element vs. AI: Nick explains why AI can describe the beach but can’t “feel the sand between its toes,” and why human “messiness” is key to connection.  [24:26] Building a Story Vault: Nick provides a practical framework for formalizing your brand’s folklore—from founder stories to customer service wins—so they can be systematically used in AI content.  [28:17] Actionable Steps for Marketers: Three immediate steps to take: build your story vault, interview key stakeholders (founders, early employees), and analyze customer service transcripts for sentiment.  [30:11] The Problem with “Killer Prompt” Libraries: Why copying “top 20 prompt” lists is a strategic mistake that leads to generic, non-differentiated content. Companies and links mentioned: Nick Usborne on LinkedIn  Story Aligned  Transcript Nick Usborne, Christian Klepp Nick Usborne  00:00 AI can do a wonderful job in many ways, but it’s never walked down the beach and felt the sand between its toes. It’s read about it. It’s never eaten ice cream. It’s read about that, but it’s never felt it. So that’s what I mean by lived experience. I think that content and stories that truly resonate with people you use those kind of touch points the the deeply human side of being alive. And like, say, I think AI can get close when you prompt it really well, but also, there’s a messiness that makes us recognize one another, the little mistakes we make. That’s what makes us human. We are messy. AI, it’s not very good at being messy. You can ask it to be messy, and it’ll try to figure that out, but it’s really not the same. And like I say, I think people are very sensitive to this kind of nuance. Christian Klepp  00:51 When brands rely on the same AI tools and prompts, they start to sound like everyone else. That loss of voice can hurt trust and lead to something called Brand drift. So how can B2B Marketing teams scale content with AI while staying true to their story? Welcome to this episode of the B2B Marketers in the Mission podcast, and I’m your host, Christian Klepp, today, I’ll be talking to Nick Usborne, who will be answering this question. He’s the Founder of Story Aligned, a training program for Marketing teams that want to scale content using AI while protecting the integrity of their brand story and voice. Tune in to find out more about what this B2B Marketers Mission is. Mr. Nick Usborne, welcome to the show, sir.  Nick Usborne  01:32 Thank you very much. Thank you Christian. Thank you for having me.  Christian Klepp  01:35 Pleasure to have you on the show. Nick, you know we had such a fantastic pre interview call. It was a bit of a you did drop a few hints and clues about what was to come, and I’m really looking forward to this conversation. I’m going to keep the audience in suspense a little while longer as I move us into the first question. So off we go.  Nick Usborne  01:55 Okay. Christian Klepp  01:56 All right, so, Nick, you’re on a mission to equip Marketing teams to scale AI powered content while staying aligned with their organization, story and voice. So for this conversation, let’s focus on the topic of how to use AI for B2B content without losing trust. And it is at the time of the recording, the end of 2025 and of course, we’re going to talk about AI, but we’re going to zoom in on something specific as it pertains to B2B content and a little bit of branding in there as well. But I wanted to kick off this conversation with two questions, and I’m happy to repeat them. So the first question is, why do you believe it’s so important for brands and their Marketing teams to embrace AI so that they can scale? And the second question is, why does this approach require the right prompts and guardrails? I think that’s one thing that you mentioned in our previous conversation, the whole the whole piece about prompts and guardrails. Nick Usborne  02:53 Well, the first question, why do companies need to embrace AI? And the ridiculous answer to that. It’s not a good answer, but it’s true is that because everyone else is, because your competitors are, and they will create content at scale while you are not, and they will achieve reach that you can’t achieve without AI. And in fact, if they do it well, their content, their new content, will be very good, content deeply researched beyond perhaps what you can do. So it’s like everything within AI right now, like, like, Why? Why do all the companies like open AI and Google and Meta, why they all racing? Because if they don’t, someone else will get there first. And it’s, I’m not saying it’s a great reason, but I think it is the fundamental reason for companies to embrace AI, is that you will be left behind if you don’t. This is a transformational moment, and as much as we’d like to have choice, I think in this matter, we don’t have a lot of choice. So that’s my answer to that question. Repeat the second question for me. Christian Klepp  04:00 Absolutely, absolutely so based on, based on that, like, why does this approach require the right prompts and guardrails? Nick Usborne  04:10 As part of my business, I’m constantly researching this, and in particular, I’m researching the prompts people do so when say, could be writers coders, but in our world. Let’s say writers, principally, or marketers, are using AI. They’re using prompts, and they’re generally prompting about two things. One is narrative, like, what should we say? Or, you know, please write us a blog post about x. So that’s the that’s the topic, that’s the narrative. And then they’ll put in something say, oh, please do it in a voice that is authoritative and yet accessible. All right, so now that’s a voice. What they haven’t mentioned is what I think is the foundational layer, which is, which is story. And that’s important, because story is the only thing that is uniquely yours, if you have an narrative, if you, if you have voice, if you talk about something in a particular way, I can copy that with AI. I can copy it at scale. I can, I can look at the transcripts of Christian podcasts, and I can say, oh, I want to do one in exactly. Tell her the same topic. I can, you know, so when you focus on narrative, on what you write about in voice. I can copy it. There’s no moat. The only moat you have is with story, because every company’s story is unique. We can look at origin stories, foundation stories, we can look at customer stories through case studies, things like that. Those are always unique. No one else has Apple’s origin story. No one else has virgin Atlantic’s Founder’s story, etc. But we did some research recently. Actually, we did some research months ago, and I reconfirmed it earlier this week. I ran it. I ran it all again to look at the data. If you look at the top 20 prompt libraries that you know the big, trustworthy companies and organizations that put out prompt libraries for companies. If you look at the top 20 libraries and the 1000s and 1000s of prompts within there, 76% of those prompts are about the narrative. What to say? 17 are about voice. How do you sound? Only 7% relate to story. So this, to my mind, is where we have a problem. We have a disconnect. Everyone is going crazy, prompting for narrative and story, both of which have 0, zero mode, anyone can copy them at scale. And only 7% this very small percentage, are actually focusing on the one thing that is uniquely theirs and cannot be copied or challenged. So that when you say, when you, when you say I’m on a mission, that’s the mission for me to say, Hey guys, wake up. You’re You’re prompting the wrong things in the wrong way. Let’s like, go back and look at story Christian Klepp  07:12 Absolutely, absolutely. It almost sounds like an oxymoron to us to a certain degree, because you’re saying scaling B2B content using AI without losing trust. Because, you know, the narrative that I keep seeing on social media, particularly LinkedIn, is that if people are using AI, t

PPC Strategies for Small B2B Brands to Beat Big Competitors So many B2B companies and marketing teams waste budget on tactics that don’t drive results or support core business goals. Smaller B2B brands often compete against much larger companies while working with less internal bandwidth, tighter budgets, and limited resources. The key being successful lies in their ability to be strategic, efficient, and resourceful despite these obvious constraints. So how can small B2B brands outmaneuver big competitors using PPC and smarter marketing strategies? That’s why we’re talking to Andy Janaitis (Founder and Chief Strategist, PPC Pitbulls), who shared his experience and PPC strategies for small B2B brands to beat big competitors. During our conversation, Andy discussed the importance of foundational B2B marketing elements like high-converting landing pages, automated email flows, and a well-structured PPC strategy. He highlighted why targeted messaging and measurement are essential to compete more effectively against competitors. Andy also underscored the value of understanding B2B audience pain points, having a well-designed website, and leveraging key metrics such as first-order profitability and customer lifetime growth. He emphasized the importance of transparency and authenticity in B2B marketing strategies and advocated for a data-driven approach that achieves scalable, profitable growth. https://youtu.be/DR6d_dFfnVI Topics discussed in episode: [03:06] The Small Brand Advantage: Why being smaller allows for more targeted messaging that resonates better than broad, big-brand ads. [05:05] Avoid the Testing Trap: Why splitting a small budget across too many creative tests leads to insufficient data and wasted spend. [07:14] Winning the Auction: How the real-time ad auction rewards quality and specificity, allowing you to pay less than big brands for premium placements. [09:50] The Conversion Ecosystem: The critical role of landing pages and automated email flows in nurturing leads who aren’t ready to buy yet. [14:58] 5 Essentials for Ad Readiness: A checklist of what you need (from audience understanding to goal clarity) before launching your first campaign. [21:55] AI in PPC: How AI-driven automation has powered platforms for years and where it is heading next. [25:34] Better Metrics: Why you should look past ROAS and focus on first-order profitability and customer lifetime growth. Companies and links mentioned: Andy Janaitis on LinkedIn  PPC Pitbulls  Transcript Andy Janaitis, Christian Klepp Andy Janaitis  00:00 If you’re sending people to a landing page that’s not built to convert, if it doesn’t have the social proof that gives somebody the trust in your product or your service, you may be able to get folks to your site, but they’re not ultimately going to purchase for you, and that’s just one other component. Something else we see all the time is email flows, so making sure that you have automated welcome flows, that if they don’t purchase the first time they’re on your site, they have a lower value touch point, whether it be downloading a free lead magnet or something like that, that brings them into your ecosystem and allows you to start nurturing the relationship over time. Those are two things that we see all the time, landing pages and email flows that are fundamentals that get overlooked and people say, hey, the ads aren’t working, you know, I gotta, you know, try more creative. I gotta keep tweaking. I gotta change, you know, the different structure that some YouTube Guru told me that I need to be running, when in reality, it’s like, no, there’s some key fundamentals that you’ve got to get right about your business first. And getting those things right is going to have 100 times more impact than tweaking little bits of the creative here and there. Christian Klepp  01:04 So many B2B companies and their marketing teams waste money on marketing that doesn’t match their business goals. They go up against much larger competitors, while also having to contend with limited budgets, resources and bandwidth. So how can smaller B2B brands outsmart their biggest counterparts and win? Welcome to this episode of the B2B Marketers on the Mission podcast, and I’m your host, Christian Klepp, today, I’ll be talking to Andy Janaitis, who will be answering this question. He’s the Founder and Chief Strategist of PPC Pitbulls, a boutique digital marketing agency that helps B2B businesses grow past seven figures through leveraging Google and Meta ads. Tune in to find out more about what the speed to be Marketers Mission is. All right, and off we go. Mr. Andy Janaitis, welcome to the show, sir. Andy Janaitis  01:50 Thanks for having me, Christian. Christian Klepp  01:51 Really enjoyed our pre-interview conversation, Andy. We talked about a lot of things that range from B2B Marketing to family and hobbies and the different cities that we’re living in, and what have you. But I am really looking forward to this conversation, because it’s something that I think a lot of people in the B2B Marketing world can relate to. And if they can’t relate, they should all right, so let’s dive right in, because I think this is going to be a really interesting conversation, right? Andy Janaitis  02:19 Definitely. Christian Klepp  02:20 Okay. So Andy, you’re on a Mission to help scale independent B2B brands with data driven Google and Meta ads. But for this conversation, I’d like to zero in on the topic of how smaller B2B brands can outsmart the bigger competitors by being strategic with PPC. If we’re going to use military terms, it almost sounds like you have to learn how to use Guerrilla warfare instead of conventional war tactics, right? So I’m going to kick-off the conversation with two questions, and I’m happy to repeat them all right? So the first question is, what is it about PPC or Pay Per Click that you wish more people understood? And the second question is, why do you think small brands fail when they try to copy big brand ad strategies? Andy Janaitis  03:06 There’s a lot, a lot there to unpack, and I think, you know, there’s, I think you touched on it there, but there’s a lot of anxiety among small brands. We work with Founders and Marketing Directors of these independent brands, and oftentimes there’s a fear of a Google Ads or Meta ads, because they say, Hey, there’s some big competitors out there in my space that are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars a month. And if I’ve got my little budget, if I’m trying to spend $5 or $10,000 a month, how do I have any chance of competing with them? You know, surely they’re going to outbid me on every single keyword, every single ad placement that I could be in, and what gets missed there is that you actually do have a big advantage in that being smaller. Your product probably has a smaller niche than you think, because you’re not distributed to everybody, you’re speaking to a smaller audience, which allows you to be much more targeted in your messaging. So in that way, where you might have some of these bigger brands that are, of course, way out investing, you that investment is being spread across so many different audiences and so many different placements, whereas you have the ability to say, Hey, I’ve got a limited budget. Let me only target, you know, the most likely people to purchase from me, and the people who are, you know, who I’m most likely to resonate with, and then give them a message that really speaks directly to them. So I think that’s the first and foremost thing to remember, is that you can take this, you know, supposedly disadvantage, and really turn it into an advantage when you when you focus in on, you know, who is your smallest, tightest, ideal client, that that you can target and speak to. I think that’s really, really important and gets missed and to your second question around, you know, the big brand tactics. I think a lot of times people see these in Instagram reels, LinkedIn posts that come up with a lot of different strategies that could work well, but are only going to work well on those larger budgets. So one great example of this. A lot of times I see people talking about creative testing and talking about needing we tested across 100 different assets, talk about, you know, let’s use AI so that we have the model in this particular influencer ad. You know, we can change the hair color and the shirt color and all these different combinations and test all these different things. The problem with that is, if you try that with a much smaller budget, you’re necessarily going to split, you know, the budget that many different ways. So say you run 100 different combinations, 100 different messages targets, you’re splitting your budget that many different ways, and you’re not building up enough data about any one of those individual combinations to make a good decision. So I always kind of tell people focus on the fundamentals. First worry about your top level messaging. What is it that really matters most and makes your product different, you know, and your really key differentiators to your to your most ideal audience, forget about, you know, button colors, or, you know, with these smaller budgets, don’t worry about testing. You know, what’s the color of the shirt that the model is wearing kind of thing, you know, you’ll have time to test those things in the future. But, you know, I think people get too caught up in those, those types of practices that, you know, big brands are spending a lot of time and money on and forget about, you know, the fundamentals themselves. Christian Klepp  06:35 Absolutely, absolutely. You brought up some really great points. I like to go back to like, two of them that you mentioned, I think the first one, short of getting too granular or getting too in the weeds, but you brought up something that I thought was really important to discuss further about, like the worry or the concern the Marketers have that people are gon

Why B2B Lead Qualification Fails and How to Fix It  Traffic is cheap, but qualified B2B sales conversions are not. Too many CMOs in the B2B space are watching brilliant creative go to waste at the top of the marketing funnel because what’s passing through as a “qualified lead” often isn’t really qualified. How can B2B marketers identify where the real lead qualification bottleneck is? Why is rethinking how MQLs are defined, scored, and routed one the most strategic fixes a CMO can make to improve pipeline performance? That’s why we’re talking to Gabe Lullo (CEO, Alleyoop), who shared some insights around why B2B lead qualification fails and how to fix it at the top of the funnel. During our discussion, Gabe challenged the common misconception that poor lead quality is the issue when sales aren’t closing. Instead, he emphasized the importance of a clearly-defined Ideal Customer Profile (ICP), a strong product-market fit, and a well-mapped B2B sales journey. Gabe also stressed the need for A/B testing, identifying and resolving funnel bottlenecks, and using data-driven decision-making to improve lead conversion rates. He underscored the value of nurturing leads and cautioned B2B marketers against dismissing traditional marketing channels without rigorous testing. https://youtu.be/KXVmywNsfP0 Topics discussed in episode: [02:36] Why top-of-funnel lead qualification breaks down in B2B. [16:37] How to define and operationalize your Ideal Customer Profile (ICP). [12:17] When MQLs hurt more than they help, and how to fix them. [26:14] How A/B testing and data-driven decisions improve lead conversion. [27:53] Why lead nurturing is critical to long sales cycles. [34:05] When to test (not abandon) traditional B2B marketing channels. Companies and links mentioned: Gabe Lullo on LinkedIn  Alleyoop  ZoomInfo  Salesloft  Adobe  Transcript SPEAKERS Gabe Lullo, Christian Klepp Gabe Lullo  00:00 So we’re doing top of funnel activities, and then we’re sending leads over. The sales team takes them, and then what we find, a lot, we hear this all the time, is leads aren’t closing. And what’s interesting is that it was never a lead problem. It was more of a, you know, seller problem. I don’t mean to put blame on it, but companies come to us saying, hey, my sellers are saying we don’t have enough leads, we don’t have better leads, we don’t have good leads, and they’re the ones complaining about the lead. So they come to us to fix the lead problem. We fix the lead problem, but it doesn’t fix the revenue problem. It’s still not closing. So what is it? Christian Klepp  00:30 Traffic is cheap, but conversion is not too many CMOs (Chief Marketing Officer) are watching brilliant, creative go to waste at the top of the funnel, because what’s passing through as qualified just isn’t so how can you identify where the real bottleneck is, and why is rethinking how MQLs (Marketing Qualified Leads) are defined and scored the single most strategic fix? A CMO can make welcome to this episode of the B2B Marketers on the Mission podcast, and I’m your host, Christian Klepp. Today, I’ll be talking to Gabe Lullo, who will be answering these questions. He’s the CEO of Alleyoop, a sales development agency working with industry giants such as ZoomInfo, Salesloft and Adobe. Tune in to find out more about what this B2B Marketers Mission is, and off we go. Mr. Gabe Lullo, welcome to the show, sir. Gabe Lullo  01:17 Christian. Thank you so much. First off, I’m a huge fan of yours, so is my team, and we just appreciate all that you do for the industry. And I’m so excited to be here. Thanks for the invite. Christian Klepp  01:28 Wow, wow. Thank you. Thank you so much. Right off the gate with the praise, thank you, sir. Gabe Lullo  01:33 Well, you deserve it, man, you’re the best. What do you do. I love it. I love your show, and I love being a part of that. Christian Klepp  01:38 I appreciate that. I appreciate that. You know, we really had an awesome, like, pre-interview conversation. I’m gonna say, like, you know, talking about coming up to Toronto and Buffalo and what have you. And I’m really looking forward to this conversation, Gabe, because, man, you know, what? As much as some Marketers probably don’t want to hear this. It’s an, I think this is an absolutely necessary conversation to have. Right this topic that we’re going to talk about, and I will not keep the audience in suspense for too long. I’m just going to jump into the first question, if you don’t mind. Gabe Lullo  02:09 Yeah, no problem. Let’s get right into it. Christian Klepp  02:11 All right, so Gabe, you’re on a mission to provide the ultimate assist to your clients by setting them up for success. So for this conversation, let’s zero in on the following topic of how B2B Marketers can fix qualification at the top. So here comes the first question in our previous conversation. You talked about many marketing funnels being a leaky bucket. Can you please explain what you meant by that? Gabe Lullo  02:36 Yeah, I think companies right now are going to market in a very hodgepodge type of way, you know, ICP (Ideal Customer Profile), you know, we throw that terminal around a lot, and, you know, people think they know what it is, or feel like they have it drilled down, or feel like it’s completely locked, locked in. And then clients invite us in, and we realize it’s not the case, and it’s not just what the ideal client profile is, which, of course, is quintessential to going to market, and it’s really the first step to qualification, isn’t it, right? But on the other side of it, it is, you know, is there a product market fit? Is there a pricing that needs to be aligned? What’s the competitive landscape look like? So when we’re having live conversations, our sellers are making, you know, 11 million cold calls a year. That’s front of the line conversations, right? And we can hear, understand, and truly, you know, debrief with what each call is sounding like, so we can then narrow in what those qualifications should be. You know, a lot of you know, let’s say VPs of sales come into the sales development side of the house or the marketing side of the house, and they apply sales training methodologies to top of funnel qualifications, and it really gets broken as well. So there’s a lot to unpack, but I’ll give you an example. You know, band for instance, but you know budget authority needed timing. Like, is that really the right qualification at the top of the funnel, or does that really, you know, evolve the seller and the demo and the discovery call at that moment in time. So really understanding who’s in charge of that top of funnel and what their experience is also as a part of it, in my opinion. Christian Klepp  04:13 Absolutely, absolutely and you’re absolutely right. There’s so much to unpack here, but I have to ask just from your experience, and I know you have a lot, it seems like it’s just, there’s so many moving parts in this ecosystem, and a lot of like, well, what causes the leaky funnel? I’m gonna say is a lot of the things that you just mentioned, right? It’s a lack of understanding of who the actual ICP is. It’s probably also, especially the bigger the the organization gets sorry to everyone out there, but the lack of ownership and accountability, the lack of an actual strategy, like, where’s this all gonna go? Right? Gabe Lullo  04:54 Oh, it’s interesting. Yeah, I find this to be our except we so we’re doing top of the funnel activities, and we’re sending leads over, the sales team takes them, and then what we find, a lot, we hear this all the time, is leads aren’t closing. And what’s interesting is that it was never a lead problem. It was more of a seller problem. Now I don’t mean to put blame on it, but companies come to us saying, hey, my sellers are saying we don’t have enough leads, we don’t have better leads, we don’t have good leads, and they’re the ones complaining about the lead so they come to us to fix the lead problem. We fix the lead problem, but it doesn’t fix the revenue problem. It’s still not closing. So what is it? It’s the entire channel, right? It’s the entire sales journey, and we have to make sure that all of those things are working like an engine, right? All the cylinders are working at the same time in the same motion, to truly know what the problem may be. So that that’s really exposed a lot when we step in and start doing top of funnel activities, Christian Klepp  05:55 Absolutely, absolutely. And that segues into the next question, which I feel you’ve already answered to a certain extent. But where do you feel the true bottleneck lies, and that may be dependent on the company, right? Because each company maybe has a different set of challenges. And most importantly, okay, where does the bottleneck lie? And how do how can B2B Marketing teams help address the bottleneck and not be part of the bottleneck? Gabe Lullo  06:21 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there’s an eight step approach to sales. That’s what we call your sales journey, right? You have, obviously, you know, list building, and then we have, of course, outreach, we have qualification, we have discovery call, we have demo, we have, you know, closing or negotiating. We have client success. I mean, that’s the basic funnel, if you will. So is our, I should say, all of those things operating at the best of its ability. And what is broken, and it’s, it’s the old, you know, Henry Ford approach the assembly line. You know, there’s an assembly line and building a car, and there’s an assembly line in sales. And you have to know those steps, firstly, two, you have to know if those steps are working correctly, and figure out where that bottleneck is, and then, you know, take those blockers away so that those cars are flowing in and the production line doesn’t stop and we’re, you know, executing on the results that we need to serve our clients. Christian Klepp  07:16 100% agree. But now I’m gonna throw in another like w

How Performance-First B2B Marketing Drives Better Results Traditional B2B marketing and advertising are undergoing a major transformation in the age of AI and rapid technological advancement. With shifting market dynamics and budget cuts across B2B organizations, marketing teams are under pressure to do more with less and prove their impact on business performance and revenue growth. How can B2B marketers quickly adapt, demonstrate ROI, and establish a strategic role within their organizations? That’s why we’re talking to Keith Turco (CEO, Madison Logic), who shares insights and proven strategies on how performance-first B2B marketing drives better results. During our conversation, Keith explored the evolving B2B marketing landscape and explained why performance-first strategies are crucial in times of market changes and budget cuts. He emphasized the importance of data-driven insights to measure ROI, optimize media plans, and tailor messages to specific target audiences. Keith also highlighted the need for a full-funnel approach that leverages AI-powered personalization at scale, and integrating new channels like audio and video. Additionally, he elaborated on why understanding both personal and professional interests of buyers to shorten sales cycles and build brand affinity are essential. Keith stressed the value of creativity in performance marketing to maintain loyalty and differentiate top marketers. Tune in as he also shared some key findings of research conducted by Madison Logic and The Harris Poll on the future of advertising and the impact of AI on B2B marketing. https://youtu.be/DAYcJf7AlIs Topics discussed in episode: [2:09] How macroeconomic shifts and budget cuts are creating a “performance-first” approach. [6:12] Embracing AI: Moving from a reactive to a proactive stance in advertising.  [9:50] The consumerization of B2B: Why your next lead might come from a podcast or TikTok.  [13:15] The full-funnel advantage: Moving beyond fragmented tactics to a more unified data strategy.  [17:34] Communicating with the C-Suite vs. managers: Tailoring content for different “states of mind”. [22:27] Research insights: Why 73% of leaders see AI as the future of creative production. [32:12] Why abandoning brand for “just the facts” performance marketing is a mistake. Companies and links mentioned: Keith Turco on LinkedIn Madison Logic Transcript Keith Turco, Christian Klepp Christian Klepp  00:01 In the age of rapid technological developments in AI, traditional B2B, marketing and advertising are witnessing monumental changes with shifting market dynamics and budget cuts across B2B organizations, marketing teams will have to do more with less. So how can they achieve this and still be instrumental to organizational success? Welcome to this episode of the B2B Marketers on a Mission podcast, and I’m your host, Christian Klepp, today I’ll be talking to Keith Turco, who will be answering this question. He’s the CEO of Madison Logic, which leads global account based marketing initiatives to help revenue driven marketers accelerate buying journeys with targeted, measurable strategies. Tune in to find out more about what this B2B marketer’s mission is. Okay, and here we are. Mr. Keith Turco, welcome to the show. Keith Turco  00:50 Thank you, Christian. Good to see you. Christian Klepp  00:53 Likewise, likewise. We had a great pre-interview conversation, and I’m really looking forward to this conversation. We got to buckle up a little bit, because there’s a lot to cover. There’s a lot to cover, but I think it’s going to be really interesting, relevant and pertinent to all those B2B marketers out there. So let’s, let’s dive right in. Keith Turco  01:11 Great. Excited to be here. Christian Klepp  01:12 All right, so Keith, you’re on a mission to help B2B companies succeed by delivering performance-first strategies across the full marketing funnel and performance-first, I think, is going to be a word or a term that we’re going to hear throughout this conversation, but for this conversation, let’s focus on a topic and unpack it from there, so it’s how B2B marketing teams can rapidly adapt to market changes and contribute to organizational success. So let me set this up a little bit, because that sounds like. that sounds a little bit generic. But you know, after after the description, I think people will understand what I’m talking about. So your company, Madison Logic, helps clients own the buying journey by creating lasting impact at every interaction with high value buying groups through data driven ABM. So let’s start off with this question, how have shifting macroeconomic conditions and budget cuts forced B2B marketing teams to do more with less? Keith Turco  02:09 Well inherent in the conversation, or the question is you’ve got less budget. You’ve seen lots of cuts come through either from a staff cutting perspective, you’ve got less people to help you execute against things, as well as less budget to spend on marketing. So what does that mean, and what are the implications? And how does our technology and our approach to market help. Everything from a performance first perspective allows things to be measured, and because you can measure, you can quickly calculate ROI, you can quickly optimize your your media plans, and you can also take a look at what your creative is and isn’t working and what’s working through from a content based perspective. So when you take a performance-first approach to your marketing initiatives, you have all the data at your fingertips to give you the insights and intelligence you need in order to hit the right targets and the right buying groups with the right message at the right time, and give you what you need to actually, really measure the impact and optimize on a regular basis to to prove the ROI that you’re trying to prove for the organization and support sales. Christian Klepp  03:19 Yeah, no, absolutely. And you touched on a lot of things there, which I think are going to be a to be things that are going to come up throughout this conversation. So things like calculating ROI, being able to measure. I mean, who doesn’t want to do that in the world of B2B, right? But how do you see a performance based approach? And I suppose that’s the next question. How does a performance based approach help companies to adapt to, well, a lot of these market changes, and I know that’s a bit of an understatement, because market changes, it’s so broad and multifaceted, but how does it help to address these changes? Keith Turco  03:51 First and foremost, I think access to data allows you to test and learn, what’s working, what’s not, against what buying groups. I kind of mentioned it a couple of minutes ago. But if you’re looking at what’s working against which target segment, what messages make the most sense, what content are they looking for? And then on top of that, you have a buying group. Each of those groups contain multiple levels of executives and employees. So are they all consuming the same message. Can you sub segment that buying group into different categories that consume different content, that allow them to actually understand the full picture that you’re trying to communicate? And then obviously prove out ROI? I think the other thing prove out ROI is a big statement. What does that mean? What are the KPIs? They’re different for each customer that’s out there, right? So what does ROI mean to one organization versus the other? And by allowing yourself to test and learn and gain the insights that you you’re looking for, you can prove out ROI in different ways. Ultimately, the ultimate ROI is reflected in sales, right? But. Some clients will work with us on visits to website. Other clients will work with us on appointment setting. Other clients will look at, you know, number of interactions. And then lastly, of course, looking at ROI from a sale based perspective and what they’re selling, Christian Klepp  05:18 Absolutely, absolutely. And we’re certainly going to talk about the buying committee a little bit later on in this conversation. The time of this recording is at the end of 2025 and you know, I have to ask you the question about AI, and I know you your company has done some research about that, and we will look into that a little bit further on. But because you’re talking about accessing data and analyzing and aggregating data, and how does, how has technological advancements, also in the form of artificial intelligence, perhaps help that process, but also threatened B2B marketing in a way? Keith Turco  05:56 I don’t think I ever view it as threatening. I’ll always look at AI as a form of enhancement and allowance to optimize and go to market. I think probably a future question you’re going to ask, I might actually jump to it as well from an AI perspective. Keith Turco  06:12 But the impact of AI on advertising and marketing, and how is it playing a role in performance marketing? AI allows itself and lends itself to really impact performance marketing, having been and being been at, and being a fan of and student of advertising. To me, I think that AI allows us to lean in a bit more. I think we should continue to ask ourselves those questions. But the core approach from the creative side of things will still be there. What AI will allow us to do in the performance marketing world is lean into what I was referring to earlier, which is test and learn. What messages based on which audience. How do I sub segment, buying groups? How do I sub segment, even some of those additional segments, and in an effort to not spend so much time adapting creative to those sub segments or geographies or different business units inside an organization, right so each of those things allows, or would benefit from having a much more tailored approach to communications and AI should be leveraged from that perspective to lean into those kinds of things, helping you with testing and learning, help

How to Build a Winning Strategy for Your B2B Brand In a fast-paced business environment, marketers, agencies, and consultants must proactively help clients differentiate their brands in the marketplace. One way of doing this is by analyzing the strategy, messaging, and brand positioning, both for their own brands and key competitors. So how can teams conduct this kind of brand research and competitive analysis in a way that’s insightful, efficient, and actionable for planning the next steps? Tune in as the B2B Marketers on Mission Podcast presents the Marketing DEMO Lab Series, where we sit down with Clay Ostrom (Founder, Map & Fire) and his SmokeLadder platform designed for brand research, messaging and positioning analysis, and competitive benchmarking. In this episode, Clay explained the platform’s origins and features, emphasizing its role in analyzing brand positioning, core messaging, and competitive landscapes. He also stressed the importance of clear, consistent brand positioning and messaging, and how standardized make it easier to compare brands across multiple business values. Clay also highlighted the value of objective, data-driven analysis to identify brand strengths, weaknesses, and gaps, and how tools like SmokeLadder can save significant time in gathering insights to build trust with clients. He provided practical steps for generating, refining, and exporting brand messaging and analysis for internal or client-facing use. Finally, Clay also discussed how action items and recommendations generated from analysis can immediately support smart brand strategy decisions and expedite trust-building with clients. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4_o1PzF1Kk Topics discussed in episode: [1:31] The purpose behind building SmokeLadder and why it matters for B2B teams [12:00] A walkthrough of the SmokeLadder platform and how it works [14:51] SmokeLadder’s core features [17:48] How positioning scores and category rankings are calculated [35:36] How differentiation and competitors are analyzed inside SmokeLadder [44:07] How SmokeLadder builds messaging and generates targeted personas [50:24] The key benefits and unique capabilities that set SmokeLadder apart Companies and links: Clay Ostrom Map & Fire SmokeLadder Transcript Christian Klepp  00:00 In an increasingly competitive B2B landscape, marketers, agencies and consultants, need to proactively find ways to help their clients stand out amidst the digital noise. One way of doing this is by analyzing the strategy, messaging and positioning of their own brands and those of their competitors. So how can they do this in a way that’s insightful, efficient and effective? Welcome to this first episode of the B2B Marketers in the Mission podcast Demo Lab Series, and I’m your host, Christian Klepp. Today, I’ll be talking to Clay Ostrom about this topic. He’s the owner and founder of the branding agency Map and Fire, and the creator of the platform Smoke Ladder that we’ll be talking about today. So let’s dive in. Christian Klepp  00:42 All right, and I’m gonna say Clay Ostrom. Welcome to this first episode of the Demo Lab Series. Clay Ostrom  00:50 I am super excited and very honored to be the first guest on this new series. It’s awesome. Christian Klepp  00:56 We are honored to have you here. And you know, let’s sit tight, or batten down the hatches and buckle up, and whatever other analogy you want to throw in there, because we are going to unpack a lot of interesting features and discuss interesting topics around the platform that you’ve built. And I think a good place to start, perhaps Clay before we start doing a walk through of the platform is, but let’s start at the very beginning. What motivated you to create this platform called Smoke Ladder. Clay Ostrom  01:31 So we should go all the way back to my childhood. I always dreamed of, you know, working on brand and positioning. You know, that was something I’ve always thought of since the early days, but no, but I do. I own an agency called Map and Fire, so I’ve been doing this kind of work for over 10 years now, and have worked with lots and lots of different kinds of clients, and over that time, developed different frameworks and a point of view about how to do this kind of work, and when the AI revolution kind of hit us all, it just really struck me that this was an opportunity to take a lot of that thinking and a lot of that, you know, again, my perspective on how to do this work and productize that and turn it into something that could be used by people when we’re not engaged with them, in some kind of service offering. So, so that was kind of the kernel of it. I actually have a background in computer science and product. So it was sort of this natural Venn diagram intersection of I can do some product stuff, I can do brand strategy stuff. So let’s put it together and build something. Christian Klepp  02:46 And the rest, as they say, is history. Clay Ostrom  02:49 The rest, as they say, is a lot of nights and weekends and endless hours slaving away at trying to build something useful. Christian Klepp  02:58 Sure, sure, that certainly is part of it, too. Clay Ostrom  03:01 Yeah. Christian Klepp  03:02 Let’s not keep the audience in suspense for too long here, right? Like, let’s start with the walk through. And before you share your screen, maybe I’ll set this up a little bit, right? Because you, as you said, like, you know, you’ve built this platform. It’s called Smoke Ladder, which I thought was a really clever name. It’s, you like to describe it as, like, your favorite SEO (Search Engine Optimization) tool, but for brand research and analysis. So I would say, like, walk us through how somebody would use this platform, like, whether they be a marketer that’s already been like in the industry for years, or is starting out, or somebody working at a brand or marketing agency, and how does the platform address these challenges or questions that people have regarding brand strategy, analysis and research? Clay Ostrom  03:49 Yeah, yeah. I use that analogy of the SEO thing, just because, especially early on, I was trying to figure out the best way to describe it to someone who hasn’t seen it before. I feel like it’s a, I’m not going to fall into the trap of saying, this is the only product like this, but it has its own unique twists with what it can do. And I felt like SEO tools are something everybody has touched at one point or another. So I was using this analogy of, it’s like the s, you know, Semrush of positioning and messaging or Ahrefs, depending on your if you’re a Coke or Pepsi person. But I always felt like that was just a quick way to give a little idea of the fact that it’s both about analyzing your own brand, but it’s also about competitive analysis and being able to see what’s going on in the market or in your landscape, and looking specifically at what your competitors are doing and what their strengths and weaknesses are. So does that resonate with you in terms of, like, a shorthand way, I will say, I don’t. I don’t say that. It’s super explicitly on the website, but it’s been in conversation. Christian Klepp  05:02 No, absolutely, absolutely, that resonated with me. The only part that didn’t resonate with me is that I’m neither a coke or a Pepsi person. I’m more of a ginger ale type of guy. I digress. But yeah, let’s what don’t you share your screen, and let’s walk through this, right? Like, okay, if a marketing person were like, use the platform to do some research on, perhaps that marketers, like own company and the competitors as well, right? Like, what would they do? Clay Ostrom  05:32 Yeah, so that’s, that is, like you were saying, there’s, sort of, I guess, a few different personas of people who would potentially use this. And initially I was thinking a little more about both in house, people who, you know, someone who’s working on a specific brand, digging really deep on their own brand, whether they’re, you know, the marketing lead or whatever, maybe they’re the founder, and then this other role of agency owners, or people who work at an agency where they are constantly having to look at new brands, new categories, and quickly get up to speed on what those brands are doing and what’s the competitive space look like, you know, for that brand. And that’s something that, if you work at an agency, which obviously we both have our own agencies, we do this stuff weekly. I mean, every time a new lead comes in, we have to quickly get up to speed and understand something about what they do. And one of the big gaps that I found, and I’d be curious to kind of hear your thoughts on this, but I’ve had a lot of conversations with other agency owners, and I think one of the biggest gaps is often that brands are just not always that great at explaining their own brand or positioning or differentiation to you, and sometimes they have some documentation around it, but a lot of times they don’t. A lot of it’s word of mouth, and that makes it really hard to do work for them. If whatever you’re doing for them, whether that’s maybe you are working on SEO or maybe you’re working on paid ads or social or content, you have to know what the brand is doing and kind of what they’re again, what their strengths and weaknesses are, so that you can talk about that. I mean, do you come across that a lot in your work? Christian Klepp  07:33 How do I say this without offending anybody? I find, I mean jokes aside, I find, more often than not, in the especially in the B2B space, which is an area that I operate in, I find 888 point five times out of 10. We are dealing with companies that have a they, have a very rude, rudimentary, like, framework of something that remotely resembles some form of branding. And I know that was a very long winded answer, but it’s kind of sort of there, but not really, if you know what I mean. Clay Ostrom  08:17 Yeah. Christian Klepp  08:17 And there have been other extreme cases wher

How to Optimize Your PPC Campaigns for Maximum Impact Every Pay-Per-Click campaign has symptoms. While some are mild, others can be critical. With the B2B marketing environment becoming more competitive and as budgets continue to shrink, ensuring your PPC campaigns are well thought out and “healthy” is imperative. So how can B2B marketing teams ensure they run high-performing PPC campaigns? That’s why we’re talking to Serge Nguele (Founder, Your PPC Doctor), who shares proven strategies and expert insights on how to optimize your PPC campaigns for maximum impact. During our conversation, Serge emphasized the value of understanding PPC as a tool to test market assumptions and validate messaging. He also highlighted common pitfalls that B2B marketers should avoid such as launching campaigns without a clear strategy, relying on poor or incomplete tracking, and generic ad copy that doesn’t resonate. He advised that teams must fix their tracking, define what business success looks like, segment audiences with intention, and relentlessly test to discover what drives conversions. Serge stressed the importance of having a comprehensive, full-funnel approach to maximize the potential of PPC campaigns through Google and Microsoft ads. He also shared his “no excuses, no complaints, no self-pity” philosophy to illustrate the mindset required to drive stronger results and leverage the true potential of PPC. https://youtu.be/oSmgdh2Jfgw Topics discussed in episode: [2:13] The importance of PPC in B2B marketing [4:49] Some common misconceptions and pitfalls in PPC [15:04] How B2B marketers can avoid major PPC pitfalls [23:11] Practical steps to optimize PPC campaigns for predictable results Fix your tracking Define success in business terms Segment your audience in a smart way Differentiate messaging based on audience’s stage in the funnel Testing relentlessly [29:22] How AI is reshaping PPC and what B2B marketers must prepare for Companies and links mentioned: Serge Nguele on LinkedIn Your PPC Doctor Transcript Christian Klepp  00:01 Every pay per click campaign has symptoms. Some are mild, while others are critical. With the marketing landscape becoming more competitive and budgets shrinking, ensuring your PPC (Pay-Per-Click) campaigns are well thought out and healthy is imperative. So how can marketing teams ensure they optimize their PPC campaigns for maximum impact? Welcome to this episode of the B2B Marketers in a Mission podcast, and I’m your host, Christian Klepp. Today, I’ll be talking to Serge Nguele, who will be answering this question. He’s the founder at your PPC doctor who specializes in implementing PPC solutions for companies. Tune in to find out more about what this B2B marketers mission is. Okay, and here we go. Mr. Serge Nguele, welcome to the show.  Serge Nguele  00:49 Thank you for having me, Christian. How are you today? Christian Klepp  00:52 I’m great, and I’m really looking forward to this conversation, because I’ll be honest with you, I was looking through the archive of all the past episodes, and I have to say nobody has been on the show that is going to talk about this topic, so this is the first time. Serge Nguele  01:05 Oh, yeah, good to hear. We’ll try to bring some value to all the millions of you know listener out there. Christian Klepp  01:13 Absolutely, absolutely. So let’s dive in, because I think this is going to be an interesting topic. And I don’t know about you, perhaps you run across this many times, but in my space and in my network, the moment people hear pay per click or PPC, they get a little bit like, I don’t know. Oh, I’m not sure. And this is part of the reason, a big part of the reason why I’ve asked somebody like yourself to come on the show. It’s to take the ickiness out of this topic and get them to understand why it’s important, right? So let’s dive into the first question. Okay, so Serge, you’re on a mission to listen. I love this one. Listen, diagnose and prescribe the right paperclip solutions for B2B companies. So for this conversation, let’s focus on the topic of how to optimize your PPC campaigns for maximum impact. So I’m going to kick off this conversation with the following question, what is it about PPC that you wish more people understood? Serge Nguele  02:16 Yeah, thanks. Yeah. Thanks, Christian for your question, and to quickly touch on what you’ve said about PPC. That’s the story of my life. You know, when people are asking, what do you do? And I will say, Pay Per Click, I will start explaining, you know, and they will just nod, and I will be like, not quite sure they got it, but you know, the quick way would be just to tell them, whenever you search for anything online, you go on Google or whichever search engine. And we’ll touch on it, there is not only Google, you know, when we when it comes to PPC, you type your keyword, and you will see a lot of links coming and the one with a little ad, which means advertising that’s pay per click. Ah, they would say, Yeah, that’s fine. Serge Nguele  03:03 But to come to your question when it’s come to PPC, really, what I wish most marketers are understanding is that PPC, which stands for pay per click, and it’s pay per click, because whenever you type a keyword and you click on the link coming there is someone paying the advertiser, not usually the user. That’s why it’s pay per click. And what is good to I wish many people you know understood about it is that PPC it’s about buying time to test your market assumptions. Because, yeah, all of us, all the businesses, it’s really happening, not when you have the click, but it’s after the click. What’s happening there. So when done right? PPC is the fastest, one of the fastest way I know of to validate the messaging, your offer, your positioning, and I wish more marketers understood that PPC is in a silo. It’s a feedback engine, really, and when you use it to inform your market, product fit your sales messaging, or even your customer experiences. It really goes beyond clicks, and that’s where you get the magic out of PPC. Christian Klepp  04:30 Yeah, that’s a really good way of putting it. Serge, and thanks for sharing that. We’re going to touch on this, I think even more later on. But like just you know, from a very top level perspective. Why do you think a lot of people feel, even marketers, feel that PPC is a waste of marketing investment? Serge Nguele  04:49 Yes, with this one, if I’m taking from advertiser, let’s say you Christian, you are, you know, a business person, the way. Well. Yeah, when it’s coming to PPC, it’s fair to talk more about Google, because, yeah, Google is having 90% of the market. So we will say Google, but Google is not the world. PPC has rules here a bit later. So let’s say what Google has done over the year is to really make it easy for pretty much anyone on the planet to be in a position to choose a few keyword enter the credit card, and in a matter of minutes, they would have another running showing up to people. So that’s the easy part, but that’s not doing PPC, and what is happening out of it, soon enough, they will realize, Okay, we are having a lot of clicks, but not what we are expecting, which means sales, or whatever is that is making their bottom line. And a lot of client I would be seeing advertiser. It will be after that phase where they found them themselves, you know, out of pocket of 100, if not 1000s, of click. And they will all, all of them. They will come like, PPC doesn’t work. And I would say, yeah, it’s normal for it not to work, if you because it’s a job, you know, I’m not here to defend, you know, my job, but, yeah, it’s taking time to be a PPC expert. So really, for me, starting from the beginning, where people are doing what they are not meant to do is not like me. You know, tomorrow I won’t be going out there and say I’m a podcast host. You know, that will be an insult on, you know, all the learning you went through, you know, to be where you are. So for me, that’s really the key problem. So basically, it’s, yeah, it’s a West because a lot of unqualified people, and I’m saying this, you know, respectfully, are just, you know, wasting budget, essentially. Christian Klepp  07:16 Yeah, so what I’m hearing you say is, like part of it is certainly a lack of expertise. The other one is also, perhaps even a lack of strategy, and we’re going to talk about that later on in the conversation, but that is a great segue to the next question about key pitfalls that you think B2B marketers should avoid when it comes to PPC. So what are those key pitfalls, and what should they be doing instead? Serge Nguele  07:38 Yes, and this will be complementing my answer, because, yeah, I focus it on advertiser directly. But let’s say when PPC experts are doing are running campaigns for their clients. So this is to this question to as mainly PPC has said, it’s one of the quickest way to really generate clicks out there. That’s fine, but that just the beginning, but even before getting there. So it’s the strategy beforehand, because, yeah, it’s quite easy to set the keyword, generate click and realize the website is not ready. The offer is not what it was supposed to be, and it’s bringing us, you know, to really plan before even starting creating your first campaign. That means the strategy. What is your product? Are you understanding your market? What’s your positioning your competition. What are you bringing to the market? So that’s the strategy. Once you clear with it, it will make it easy for you to say, Okay, I’m understanding the market. This is my offer. This is what I’m bringing, different, you know, in the market space. And now this is the strategy, the approach I’m going to use to reach out to those people. Where are those people? Even, you know, searching for the product or service I’m going to promote online. Because, yeah, when we say PPC, it’s a full funnel.  Serge Nguele  09:16 If we take Google, for example, people w

How a Growth Mindset Drives B2B Marketing Success  In an increasingly competitive business environment inundated with digital noise, relying on “play it safe” tactics will only result in your brand drowning in a sea of sameness. The path to true differentiation, innovation, and standing out is not an easy one as it requires a significant mindset shift. For B2B marketing initiatives to succeed, you must create room for experimentation and data-driven discovery. How can B2B marketers approach this effectively and secure internal buy-in for it? That’s why we’re talking toVincent Weberink (Founder, Pzaz.io),who shares expert insights and proven strategies on how a growth mindset drives B2B marketing success. In this episode, Vincent talked about why design experiments are crucial in B2B marketing and highlighted the need for structured, data-driven growth experimentation. He shared his proven methodology consisting of ideation, ranking, and rapid prototyping designed to quickly and effectively validate concepts. Vincent also shared some common B2B marketing pitfalls that teams should avoid and emphasized the value of iterative testing and learning. He broke down how teams can build an entrepreneurial mindset and get internal buy-in for experimentation-driven B2B marketing. https://youtu.be/SlQa58iKf3k Topics discussed in episode: [2:09] The importance of running structured experiments in B2B marketing [5:21] Common challenges marketing teams face when designing and executing experiments [13:53] Key pitfalls marketing teams should avoid and some practical solutions [20:36] How to align internal teams and consistently generate strong experimental ideas [31:31] Actionable steps B2B marketers can take to run effective experiments: Understand and acknowledge that what you know is probably wrong Use ideation and designing experiments Trust your team Be creative in applying growth hacks Get external help if stuck Companies and links mentioned: Vincent Weberink on LinkedIn Pzaz.io Cisco Airbnb ChatGPT 13 Failures Later What The Hack?! Transcript Christian Klepp  00:00 In a B2B landscape that has become increasingly competitive and inundated with digital noise, using play it safe tactics will result in your brand drowning in a sea of sameness. That said, the path to differentiation, innovation and standing out is not an easy one, as it requires a change in mindset. You need to have room for experiments to truly create something that is relevant to customers. So how can B2B marketers do this, and how can they get internal buy in for it? Welcome to this episode of the B2B Marketers in a Mission podcast, and I’m your host, Christian Klepp. Today, I’ll be talking to Vincent Weberink, who will be answering this question. He’s the founder of pzaz.io who specializes in developing business growth through creative, structured data driven growth experimentation. Tune in to find out more about what this B2B marketers mission is. Christian Klepp  00:51 Vincent Weberink, welcome to the show.  Vincent Weberink  00:54 Hello Christian. Thank you very much. Pleasure to be here.  Christian Klepp  00:59 Absolutely I’ve been really looking forward to this conversation. I think we’re going to have a great time. We’re going to have a great discussion also about topics, and a main topic in particular that I think is going to be so relevant to B2B marketers and their teams in general. So you know, without further ado, let’s not keep the audience in suspense for too long. Let’s just jump straight into it. All right. So Vincent, you’re on a mission to drive business growth through creative, structured and data driven growth experimentation. So for this conversation, let’s focus on the following topic, which is how B2B marketers can create a mindset and design experiments to understand what customers want. That kind of sounds like it’s very, I’m going to say pedestrian, but it’s incredible, and I’m sure you’ll have plenty of case studies to show that there’s a lot of people out there that don’t follow this process, and then they get into trouble. So I’m going to kick off this conversation with two questions, and I’m happy to repeat them all right? So the first question is, why do you think that design experiments are important for marketing teams? And based on that, where do you see a lot of marketing teams struggle? Vincent Weberink  02:09 I think they’re very important because as human beings, we’re emotional when we make decisions. Problems is that, therefore when we try to drive growth. We have this idea about something, and then we tend to completely jump into it, build everything. Spend a lot of time and money and resources on building that thing that we believe is going to be very, very successful, and that takes a lot of time. And the reality is that most of the time you’re actually wrong, even though you think that you know your customer, even though you think that you know this is the best trick or marketing tactic that you’re developing. And what this experimentation model does, it sort of forces you to go through a very structured, almost scientific process, because there are some steps in there that help you to remove that emotion from your decision making.  Vincent Weberink  03:12 And an example of how decision making often is influenced is when you’re in a small team or a large team, you’re sitting around the table and you’re trying to brainstorm, say, oh, you know, we have this, this challenge. We’re launching a new product, or we’re changing something, and we need to communicate it, driving sales up. And then the people who are best sort of equipped with sales capabilities are the ones that you know will dominate the conversation, and what we tend to do is then listen to them, whereas there are other people around the table that you know, they might be more introverted, might say less, that also have really, really great ideas. So what happens is that you collect all these thoughts and ideas, and then the person that’s very good at selling is selling their idea to you, and you end up taking that one. But it has nothing to do with reality, whereas in the methodology that I’m sort of promoting, what you actually do is you try to capture as many ideas as possible, as quickly as possible, and then, in almost a democracy, you rank and rate them according to several criteria, and that will help you to make some of those ideas float. And the ones that pop up are the ones you should actually focus on, because now, within that democratic decision making process, you’ve tried to optimize the chances that one of those ideas will actually lead to much quicker success than any of the others. And you can also use it in the reverse, the ideas that completely sink because no one voted for them, maybe only just the person that was selling. You know that they go away. You just throw them away and forget. About them, because clearly they didn’t get enough support. And the other question you were asking, sorry focused on the first question.  Christian Klepp  05:08 No problem, absolutely, absolutely no. Well, that was a great way to, like, set up the conversation. And I guess it segues to the question, where do you see, based on what you said, where do you see a lot of marketing teams struggling? Vincent Weberink  05:21 Well, I see them often struggling is that they tend to spend money and time on just the ordinary things that everyone sort of accustomed to, because depending on the type of company you work in, that’s the safe choice, and that ultimately doesn’t really help you grow. It’s typically the stuff that you would never expect to work. And I’ll give you a great example of this in a moment that might give you this amazing growth overnight or amazing success. It doesn’t necessarily have to be growth. It can be specific campaign where you just need people to sign up, because you’re trying to obtain information from them and to get those people to sign up. It could be a problem. You’re designing your funnel, and then something isn’t really working.  Vincent Weberink  06:15 So in my experience, what happens is that people will say, Okay, let’s build a landing page. Let’s build a website, and let’s make it beautiful. Let’s make it perfect. But while you’re in this early stage, you have no clue if it’s going to work or not. You’re now wasting all of those resources where it’s so much better to very, very quickly, design experiments, run them as quickly as possible, see where something is happening, and then sort of iterate upon that specific experiment that you were running. And then slowly, over time, you get to a point where that experiment can be fleshed out, can be refined. You might do some A/B testing, and especially in the world we’re moving into with the rise of AI speed is everything past early days of when I was starting to do, you know, growth marketing or growth hacking, depending on what you like to call it. Let’s say 15 years ago, you could simply run an experiment, and that experiment could would last for certain periods of time. You could get away with some of the experiments, even running them for months. But with the rise of AI, what we’re seeing is that experiments only work for very, very short periods of time. And what I see with a lot of the marketing teams is that, you know, they’re not accustomed to driving fast and quickly running and failing fast, so that you can very quickly learn to see what ultimately what ultimately works.  Vincent Weberink  07:55 So a great example of something that I experienced it when I was running one of my startups, which was a streaming service, and I believed I got everything right. I was just convinced that there was nothing wrong with the product, but I wasn’t getting any traction, nothing, literally, no one was signing up, and I just couldn’t understand. So what I started to do is just run one experiment after another. First obviously, I went out and spoke to people, because

How to Leverage Storytelling for B2B Marketing Success  We hear it time and time again in the B2B marketing world: You must differentiate your brand and specialize in order to stand out in a highly competitive business environment. B2B companies should master the art of storytelling, craft a unique message, and sell authentically without pressure, cringeworthy small talk, or competing solely on price. So how can B2B companies achieve this, and what role can the marketing team play? That’s why we’re talking to Matthew Pollard (Founder, Rapid Growth®), who shares expert insights and proven strategies on how to leverage storytelling for B2B marketing success. During our conversation, Matthew discussed the significance of storytelling and specialization in B2B marketing. He also emphasized the need for differentiation in B2B companies by focusing on a specific niche rather than targeting everyone. Matthew highlighted the importance of creating a unified brand message that appeals to the target audience, and advised companies to remove generic content from their websites. He elaborated on how B2B companies can leverage their unique skills and insights, shared common pitfalls to avoid, and how marketers can help define their business’s specialty and value proposition to improve their B2B marketing strategy. https://youtu.be/W-G4-SvFRyg Topics discussed in episode: [2:35] Why specialization is the key to success in B2B marketing [10:17] A story of how Matt helped a client develop a “Unified Message” that effectively transformed her business [12:21] Common pitfalls B2B marketers face when specializing: – Tendency to focus on one’s own interests rather than the client’s needs – Trying to appeal to everyone [20:10] The role of functional skills and unique market insights in driving differentiation [31:21] Actionable steps B2B companies can take to create the differentiation and specialization that will set them apart from their competitors Companies and links mentioned: Matthew Pollard on LinkedIn Rapid Growth® Download the Rapid Growth template Download the first chapter of The Introvert’s Edge Transcript Christian Klepp  00:00 We hear it time and time again. In B2B you need to differentiate your brand and specialize in order to stand out in a highly competitive business environment, B2B companies need to master the art of storytelling, craft a unique message and sell authentically without pressure, cringe worthy small talk industry jargon or competing on price. So how do B2B companies do this, and what role can the marketing team play? Welcome to this episode of the B2B Marketer in the Mission podcast, and I’m your host, Christian Klepp. Today, I’ll be talking to Matthew Pollard, who will be answering this question. He’s a recognized growth expert, author and an award winning speaker who’s out to prove that storytelling will sell more than facts ever will tune in to find out more about what this B2B marketers mission is. Christian Klepp  00:51 Okay. I’m gonna say. Matthew Pollard, welcome to the show, sir.  Matthew Pollard  00:54 Mate. I’m excited to be here. Thanks for having me on.  Christian Klepp  00:57 I mean, you know, we’ve been on a pre interview call a couple of weeks ago, and we got on like a house on fire. I kind of feel like I’ve known you for like, 30 years or something like that. Matthew Pollard  01:08 No, I’m glad. I’m glad we got a chance to meet when I was 11. It was a big defining moment for me. Christian Klepp  01:14 Fair enough, fair enough. Matthew Pollard  01:18 I guess if, if you didn’t have a Canadian accent, I didn’t have an Australian accent, right?  Christian Klepp  01:22 Yes, yes. There is that too. There is that too. But Matthew, really excited to have you on the show. I’m really looking forward to this conversation, because we’re going to dive into stuff that you are clearly very passionate about. But that aside, I think we’re going to discuss a topic that I think is highly relevant in the world of B2B marketing. So I’m going to keep the audience in suspense just a couple of seconds longer as we dive into the first question. All right. Okay, fantastic. So Matthew, you’re known as the Rapid Growth Guy, and you’re on a mission to transform 1000s of struggling or plateaued businesses into momentum and growth. So for this conversation, let’s zero in on the topic of how B2B companies can create differentiation and specialization. It sounds like such a pedestrian thing, but it’s amazing. And I’m sure you’re going to talk about this at length in a second. It’s amazing how many companies are still getting this wrong. So I’m going to kick off the conversation with the following question, so if memory serves me well, in our previous conversation, you mentioned that if B2B, companies and their marketing teams can specialize, they can generate more clients. So can you elaborate on that a little bit more please? Matthew Pollard  02:35 Yeah, absolutely. I think that the reason I use the word specialized rather than niching is a lot of people have in their mind that niching is this thing that everybody knows that they should do but doesn’t work for them. And while, of course, they’re wrong, they’ve created a bunch of really great excuses in their mind for why that is. And so that the best example I can give you is I worked with an insurance guy who also dabbled in wealth management, and he would go to networking events all the time, and he would talk to them, and he learned how to be interested before being interesting, which is heavily important when it comes to networking. And he did his research as well. I mean, he read my books and other people’s books, and really mastered that piece. But what he said when people reached out to him was also when, when people asked him what it was that he did, he would respond that he was in insurance. And it was like their eyes almost exploded. It was like, How do I get away from this person? They knew that they were, they were going to get this massive sales pitch. And I said, Look, Nick we’ve got to step away from you commoditizing yourself like that. As soon as you say insurance. People know what that is. They put it in a bucket. It’s like me saying I’m a sales trainer. They put me in a bucket. They’re like, most people think that sales training, you know, a lot of people feel like sales people are scam artists. So they’re like, You know what? I don’t have anything to do with you. But they’re but then the opposite is, if I say I’m in marketing, people go, Oh, I need marketing. How much do you cost? Right? Neither are positive. But when you say you’re an insurance salesman, or you’re an insurance people know that the word salesman was the next thing that was supposed to come out. So because of that, they’re trying to work out how to get away from you. And so we need to look at how you can sidestep what people think they know about your industry.  Matthew Pollard  04:26 And so I said to do that, what we need to look at is how you can specialize, how you can speak to a different group of people that see you as the only logical choice. I said. So help me understand, like I believe that in today’s world, especially, the fact of the matter is, you can create rapid growth out of anything. So there’s nothing worse than rapid growth business with customers you don’t like, in a business you can’t stand so let’s focus on a group you absolutely are passionate about helping. And secondly, let’s focus on a group that you can actually serve more effectively, because if you’re in a space where you feel that you. You don’t have a great product, well, then go sell something else. Right? In today’s world, there’s always something great to sell, but think about the space that you want to work in. He goes, Well, Matt, I’m really passionate about insurance, but I really just want to help everyone. And I said, Okay, well, if we’re going to lean into passion, because I know the word passion now we’re using two words, right? Passion, which everyone’s like, well, I’d love to focus on my passion, but that’s not realistic or niche in which people think that don’t work for them. And I said, if we focus on who you’re passionate about, and we leaned into that for just a second, tell me who you would think about working and he’s like, No, seriously, Matt, everybody. I said, truthfully, everybody, what about somebody that earns 50,000 versus somebody that earns 250 he said, Well, no, the person that earns 250 why? Well, they make more money. They can buy more insurance, not what I’m talking about, Nick.  Matthew Pollard  05:46 So let’s take a step back and say, let’s pick two people at random that make 250,000 the first person is maybe somebody that grew up poor study, got into Harvard through scholarship, maybe now works for a C level executive, or they’re a C level executive, C level executive that works for a big corporation, versus a person that maybe even dropped out of school. But now they’ve started up their own business and makes 250,000 a year. One has 10 staff, the other one has 10 employees. Which one of those do you want to work with most? And his response was interesting. He said, obviously the small business owner. And I said, why? Obviously the small business owner? I mean, I grew up with the reading speed of a sick grader until I was diagnosed with Irwin syndrome. There was no way I would have been able to break through some of those barriers. But I definitely wasn’t getting a scholarship to Harvard, like and getting into a C level executive job, you know, good for him or her. And he said, Well, no, I just feel like the small business owner deserves it more like, Okay, explain that for and he said, Well, you know, I had this grandfather, and my grandfather actually did save up some money and started a business. He started, he owned a farm, and he said that that farm had to have a huge amount of cash flow on hand because of the seasonal variations and things like tha

How to Create a B2B Message That Can’t be Ignored Most B2B companies don’t lose traction because of a weak offer or a substandard product. They lose it when prospective buyers ask, “Why should I buy from you?” and the answer just doesn’t land. The main challenge lies in creating B2B messaging that resonates with prospects, differentiates your brand, and drives conversions. So how can marketing teams develop the right language and clear messaging that leads to revenue growth? That’s why we’re talking to Michael Liebowitz  (Founder, Magnetic Mind Studio),  who shares proven strategies and expert insights on how to create a B2B message that can’t be ignored. During our conversation, Michael emphasized the need to align messaging with the “critter brain,” which places value on emotions and survival. He explained why B2B marketers must communicate the main outcome delivered by their service and the core beliefs of their business. He also discussed why effective B2B marketing isn’t just about understanding your customer, but also about understanding one’s own business, brand purpose, and core beliefs. Michael highlighted the biggest messaging pitfalls that B2B marketers should avoid. He also predicted a shift from the attention to a trust economy due to AI, and stressed the need for rapid trust-building in a competitive B2B landscape. https://youtu.be/JMOPyTEmf_E Topics discussed in episode: [1:54] Why effective messaging is critical to B2B marketing success from a behavioral neuroscience perspective [4:30] Key pitfalls B2B marketers make when crafting messages [7:51] How to apply behavioral neuroscience in developing persuasive B2B messaging [9:42] How AI leads to a shift from the attention economy to the trust economy [12:32] How to build trust through authentic B2B communication [19:08] Actionable tips for developing impactful B2B messaging – Find out the operating belief within the business – Don’t start with ‘Why?’; start with ‘What’s important to you?’ – Highlight the main outcome and the core belief in the messaging [32:08] An example of how a company increased sales by clarifying their core belief [35:52] Why you have to understand yourself first to fully understand your customer Companies and links mentioned: Michael Liebowitz on LinkedIn Magnetic Mind Studio Simon Sinek Donald Miller Transcript Christian Klepp  00:01 Most B2B companies don’t lose traction because they have a weak offer or a substandard product. They tend to lose it when their prospective buyers ask, Why should I buy from you? And the answer they hear just does not land. So how can B2B companies and their marketing teams develop the right language and messaging that leads to revenue? Welcome to this episode of the B2B Marketers in the Mission podcast, and I’m your host, Christian Klepp. Today I’ll be talking to Michael Liebowitz, who will be answering this question. He’s the founder of Magnetic Mind Studio, who is focused on messaging strategy fueled by behavioral neuroscience and linguistics. Tune in to find out more about what this B2B marketers mission is.  Christian Klepp  00:01 Michael. I mean, we had a dynamite pre interview conversation. I mean, that was already like foreshadowing what was to come. Let’s put it that way.  Michael Liebowitz  00:01 Yeah.  Christian Klepp  00:01 And I’m really looking forward to this discussion, because not only is this near and dear to my heart, but I think it’s also something that’s more importantly, highly relevant to B2B marketers and the companies that they represent. So let’s not keep the audience in suspense for too long, and let’s just jump right in on.  Michael Liebowitz  00:01 Sounds good. Let’s go.  Christian Klepp  00:01 Fantastic. So Michael, you’re on a mission to build communication clarity that aligns teams and supercharges marketing and sales. So for this conversation, let’s focus on the topic of how to create a B2B message that can’t be ignored.  Michael Liebowitz  00:01 Okay.  Christian Klepp  00:01 I’m going to kick off this conversation with two questions, and I’m happy to repeat them, right? So the first one is, why do you think it’s so important to develop the right B2B messaging? The second one is, what is it about B2B messaging that you wish more people understood? Christian Klepp  00:24 All right. Michael Liebowitz, welcome to the show, sir.  Michael Liebowitz  00:47 Thanks. I’m glad to be here. Michael Liebowitz  01:54 Messaging in general, communication in general. I’ll see if I can find some pieces that are specifically applied to B2B. But my area of expertise is in the realm of behavioral neuroscience and linguistics, and that is shared by all humans, regardless of B2B or anything else. So the best way to create a message that can’t be ignored? Well, most messaging is speaking to the wrong part of the brain. Right? It’s speaking to a part of the brain that has almost, but not entirely, anything to do with whether or not someone’s going to want the service that you’re selling or not. There is another part of the brain that’s operating in the background, and I’m just going to, for sake of learning, we’re going to call it the critter brain. Now this is a metaphor for learning. There is no such thing. You know people say is that the amygdala is like, well, the mingle is part of it, but just, it’s just how the brain operates. And this part of the brain just wants to know if you are safe to be around all it does it. It controls emotions and it controls survival. That’s all it’s concerned with.  Michael Liebowitz  03:02 Here’s the nut, the up shell of that, the nutshell that we feel good when we are with people who are like ourselves. To this part of the brain, I don’t want me to die, therefore people like me probably don’t want me to die either. Makes perfect sense to the Creator brain. So here’s how this relates to messaging. The meta frame on top of all messaging is how do you create like kind with your audience? Which is why I say and let me be clear about this. That means you do audience research. But here’s what most B2B marketing misses to the extent that it should be done as much as the audience clarification is, well, what is this business really all about? What does it stand for on a belief level? So to answer that question, how do you get these messages to really break through and get a yes, you have to communicate on a belief level, not just the level of the service that you provide. Christian Klepp  04:07 Fantastic, fantastic. And, yeah, and I suppose, like, what are these like when you’re developing that messaging that can’t be ignored? What are some of these? And you’ve probably seen that, all right, what are some of these key pitfalls? Let’s keep it top level, some of these key pitfalls that marketers should avoid, and from a constructive perspective, what should they be doing instead? Michael Liebowitz  04:30 Okay, the avoid part, hey, you’re going to be able to do all these things, fantastic, and even the surface level benefits, you’re going to be able to know, no more of that. Now it’s freedom for this, no more that. Now you’re got more money for that. Those are useful things to communicate, but you have competition, so your competition is saying the exact same thing. So here’s how you differentiate yourself, is this part of the brain that credit brain really only wants to know two things. Number one, what is the main outcome you deliver? So all those things that you’re saying that you’re going to be able to get from this business, we’re going to do all these things for you. Well, what do they what does your client have when they have that? That’s the main outcome. And the best way I’ve ever heard this described, and many marketers in your audience are going to recognize this quote comes from Theodore Levitt Harvard Business School around 1960s or so, which is, people don’t want a quarter inch drill. What they want is a quarter inch hole.  Michael Liebowitz  05:35 So the big mistake I see a lot of B2B marketing make is they’re talking about the drill. Hey, our stuff, that our platform, our thing, does a lot of this stuff. You need this stuff. It solves this specific problem for you. Great. I’ll put you on the list with the other ones I’m talking to to help solve the problem, right? And then we’ll somehow make a decision. Instead, your audience wants to know, like, Okay, what do I really get from all that, like, on that deeper level? So you have to dig deeper, like, the question, or one of the questions I ask is, kind of tongue in cheek, what did they get when they got what you gave them? Right? So that’s just one thing that the brain wants. This part of the brain wants to know. It gives it context, and it says, okay, but here’s how you make a real connection. And this is so deceptively simple, a little bit harder to surface, but this part of the brain just wants to know, do we share the same beliefs? That’s how it recognizes like kind it just wants to know what you believe to be true about your business or about the context of the business you’re offering, and once the critter brain on the other side of you, the buyer, is able to see clearly what you believe to be true, and as long as it doesn’t violate their criteria for Survival, which is hard to do in this context. You’ve just became a very survivable option. Now they don’t think of this consciously, or at least not not in their foremost awareness. It’s happening way in the background. Is practically automated, right? And so that’s what’s going on. Avoid talking about the surface level benefits. And here’s all the things you’re going to get are useful. I wouldn’t say avoid them. Just put them down below these two. What’s the main outcome and what do you believe to be true? Christian Klepp  07:34 Yeah, those are definitely interesting points. But I guess my question is, look, why do you think, from your experience, why do you think a lot of B2B marketers go back to stuffing as much information o

How Your B2B Content Can Be Found by AI Search  Search engine optimization (SEO) is in a continuous state of evolution, and in the age of AI, it’s becoming increasingly complex. As AI-generated content shifts the way people search and Google’s algorithms adjust to this new dynamic, B2B marketers must have a more data-driven and strategic approach to SEO. So how can B2B companies leverage AI to increase visibility, build credibility, and generate more traffic? That’s why we’re talking to Adrian Dahlin (Founder & CEO,  Searchtosale.io), who shares proven strategies and expert insights on how your B2B content can be found by AI search. In this episode, Adrian discussed the evolving SEO landscape in the age of AI and highlighted the switch from traditional channel strategies to an authority strategy that builds trust and brand recognition. He emphasized the importance of platforms such as Reddit, Wikipedia, and LinkedIn for B2B SaaS companies to build credibility and search authority. Adrian also cautioned against self-promotional content and stressed the value of long-term planning and authentic thought leadership. He recommended tracking referral traffic from AI chatbots and user engagement metrics across community-driven platforms. Adrian also explained how B2B companies can learn from different SEO thought leaders and stay updated with emerging trends relevant to generative engine optimization (GEO). https://youtu.be/K2p459QEA5s Topics discussed in episode: [2:32] How to shift from Channel Strategy to Authority Strategy to prepare for the evolving landscape of SEO and Generative Engine Optimization (GEO) [8:08] How communities such as Reddit are becoming non-negotiable for Generative Engine Optimization (GEO) [12:39] How GEO has changed the SEO landscape  [15:32] The core components of an effective GEO strategy and implementation process [22:36] How to select the thought leaders from whom you can learn GEO  [26:10] Metrics for Generative Engine Optimization (GEO) Referral traffic Conversion and engagement rates of users from AI vs. other sources Community engagement on platforms like Reddit [31:09] The evolving perspectives on GEO Companies and links mentioned: Adrian Dahlin on LinkedIn Searchtosale.io ChatGPT Reddit Quora Wikipedia LinkedIn Quora Ahrefs Ryan Law Perplexity Transcript Christian Klepp  00:01 Search engine optimization can be somewhat confusing, and it’s become even more confusing in the age of AI, both because of how people use AI to generate content and because of how Google search itself is changing. There are those out there who claim that SEO (Search Engine Optimization) is dead. It isn’t. In fact, it’s more competitive now, which means you need a more refined approach. So how can B2B SaaS (Software as a Service) companies get AI to recommend their business? Welcome to this episode of the B2B Marketers on the Mission podcast, and I’m your host, Christian Klepp. Today, I’ll be talking to Adrian Dahlin, who will be answering this question. He’s the Founder of Search To Sale, who creates content strategies that drive revenue from organic search and generative engines, tune in to find out more about what the B2B marketers mission is. Christian Klepp  00:52 All right. Adrian Dahlin, welcome to the show.  Adrian Dahlin  00:55 Thanks for having me.  Christian Klepp  00:56 Great to have you on. I’m really looking forward to this conversation, because it’s super pertinent to content marketing. It’s something that B2B companies should be paying attention to. So I’m going to cut to the chase, and we’ll just dive right in.  Adrian Dahlin  01:13 Awesome.  Christian Klepp  01:13 Fantastic. So Adrian, you’re on a mission to help B2B SaaS companies show up in AI interfaces. So for this conversation, let’s kick it off with two questions, and I’m happy to repeat them. So the first question is, what is it about generative engine optimization or GEO that you wish more B2B SaaS companies understood, that’s the first question. And the second question is, where do you see marketing teams struggle regarding you both. Adrian Dahlin  01:42 We have right now is a stage of evolution where we’re overlapping between the Old World and the New World. And the tactics that work to get you ranked in Google, get you mentioned by an LLM (Large Language Model ) are relatively similar to the way SEO hasn’t working for years, but the paradigm is fundamentally shifting, and basically what that means is that you can do pretty well at getting mentioned by ChatGPT by doing a good job at traditional SEO, but the risk is that you’re not preparing for the future by not actually changing the paradigm of how you think about this. Christian Klepp  02:23 Care to elaborate on that a little bit more, especially that last sentence, like, you know, preparing yourself. How should companies prepare themselves? Right?  Adrian Dahlin  02:32 And I think it actually, it probably starts with timeframe for your goals. If you’re in an organization that has short term incentives, like your startup that needs quick wins to get a couple of enterprise customers so that you can raise your next round of funding. You’re probably sticking a little bit more with the tried and true stuff that has always worked. But if you have the ability to think long term, then you really want to work on changing your thinking. If you have the ability to plan long term, you want to change how you’re thinking about digital marketing fundamentally. And one of those shifts is from a channel strategy to what I’m calling an authority strategy. So a channel strategy is a big way about how marketers would think about particularly the go to market process, where you’re deciding initially where we should even be investing in the first place. You consider who your audience is, you do some research about where they spend time online, and you pick a couple of platforms, you’re probably not trying to be everywhere. We’re trying to focus on a couple of channels. And most channels, I think you can describe as a place where supply and demand interact. And if you play by certain rules and best practices, you can do pretty well.  Adrian Dahlin  04:02 So Facebook, like, 14 years ago, I was like working on Facebook as a marketing channel, interactions between customers and companies play about certain rules you can do well. Tiktok today, paid search another channel. What’s different about AI is that ChatGPT, or any other AI chat bot is not a channel, because the supply side is not present. It’s not engaging directly with the customer. You have customers engaging with a large language model, which is looking at the entire Internet. Well, rather, its brain is trained on the entire internet, and then when you give it a query, it’s looking at some of the Internet to help inform its answer. In many cases, when you’re doing a kind of a search, type of a query in ChatGPT. Yeah, so this AI is making choices. It’s doing curation and filtering among all the information on the web to give you an answer to your query.  Adrian Dahlin  05:12 And the analogy that I’m starting to use a lot is that AI is like a consultant working for your customer, you actually want to think of it like a person. The way a person reads a bunch of information, it consumes a bunch of information, synthesizes, it comes up with a point of view that’s, that’s what AI is doing. It has the ability to look at it much more information than a human can, and it’s not as good yet as we are at synthesizing that information. But when you think about AI more like a person, like a brain, then I think the strategies that emerge from that are going to work in a longer term way. Those will be more durable strategies than just doing the tried and true stuff that hasn’t worked for SEO for the last bunch of years. Christian Klepp  06:06 That certainly is an interesting analogy. I’ve never heard of AI being compared that way before, like the one that I always hear is you treat it like an intern or you treat it like a co-pilot. But there’s, there’s definitely something to be said about treating it like a brain?  Adrian Dahlin  06:21 Yeah, I mean, I think treating it like an intern is useful when you’re using AI to get stuff done, you know, you’re building workflows, you’re asking questions, you’re even if you’re asking it to, like, work on content, whatever, and but we’re talking about when, when kind of use cases where someone is, like, researching product options or the kinds of queries that make sense to try to market to. That’s where I think this other paradigm of AI as consultant makes sense. Yeah. And if you imagine, imagine those human consultants, you know your job, if, if you’re like a software company that tends to sell through partners, your job is to get in the brain of the partner, to get in the brain of the consultant. So that’s podcasts and maybe books and trade shows and conferences. So what’s the analogy for those? For AI, that’s where we start to get to the tactics of where you want to show up online. You want to show up in the places where AI is forming its view of your world. And what we’re learning is that that’s a lot of our own media and platforms like Reddit and Quora and Wikipedia and these, these kind of community spaces that demonstrate credibility, particularly when that credibility is propped up by an authority like a industry, media company or the wisdom of the crowd.  Christian Klepp  07:56 Exactly. I’m going to move us on to the next question about key pitfalls that you think marketing teams need to avoid when it comes to this topic, and what should they be doing instead? Adrian Dahlin  08:08 So the number one cited website in LLM answers is Reddit, which has created this whole new incentive to be more present on Reddit as a marketer, and that comes, certainly comes with pitfalls, because Reddit cares a lot about the quality of its platform. Moderators of communities care a lot about the quali

How to Build a Successful Content Strategy for Korea South Korea is a highly developed and technologically advanced country situated in East Asia, known for its innovation and export-driven economy. For B2B companies seeking to establish a presence in the Korean market, understanding the local business environment, language, culture, and digital behaviors is imperative. What should B2B companies and their marketing teams consider before expanding into South Korea? What cultural and linguistic factors could impact their marketing success? That’s why we’re talking to Hyein Yoon (Founder, HY Marketing),  who shares proven marketing strategies and expert insights on how to build a successful content strategy for the Korean market. In this episode, Hyein highlighted some of the key differences between Western and Korean B2B marketing approaches. She discussed the importance of understanding the hierarchical systems, the relationship-driven nature of conducting business, and how these influence decision-making in Korea. Hyein also elaborated on the need for localized marketing strategies and content, including the use of platforms like Naver, which is a more commonly used search engine platform in Korea. She advised against directly copying Western marketing strategies and emphasized the value of community-driven targeting and influencer marketing to engage and reach Korean audiences. https://youtu.be/6KJhDNoqQls Topics discussed in episode: [2:58] Key differences between Western and Korean B2B marketing practices and approaches [6:11] Common misconceptions and cultural nuances linked to localization [11:11] The challenges of translation and adapting brand messaging [16:50] Key pitfalls to avoid in international B2B marketing [19:12] Actionable tips for B2B companies entering new markets [21:40] The benefits of partnering with trusted local experts [30:50] How to leverage community targeting and influencer marketing [35:35] Metrics and KPIs to measure localization success in Korea Companies and links mentioned: Hyein Yoon on LinkedIn HY Marketing IBM, Korea Nunchi NAVER Kakao Transcript Christian Klepp  00:00 South Korea is a country situated in East Asia that has a highly developed, export driven economy that ranks among the world’s largest so what should B2B marketers operating in North America or Europe take into account when they expand into markets like South Korea? What cultural and linguistic nuances should they consider? Welcome to this episode of the B2B Marketers in the Mission podcast, and I’m your host, Christian Klepp. Today I’ll be talking to Hyein Yoon, who will be answering these questions. She’s the founder of HY marketing with proven expertise in the Korean market. Tune in to find out more about what this B2B marketers mission is. Christian Klepp  00:41 Okay. Hyein Yoon. Annyeonghaseyo (Hello), welcome to the show. Hyein Yoon  00:49 Yeah. Thank you for having me here. Christian Klepp  00:52 It’s a great pleasure to have you on. I think you get an award for being the first person that I’m interviewing from South Korea. Hyein Yoon  01:01 So much pleasure. Christian Klepp  01:03 Very, very, very exciting, very exciting. And I really appreciate you taking the time to be on the show, because I know it’s a little bit late on your side of the world, and it’s so interesting. You know, when we have podcasts like this and conversations like these in these so called Modern Times, because, you know, we can be talking to anybody around the world at different times, and it’s and I think it makes it it makes it interesting, but I think also what makes it very interesting, and we’re going to get into that in today’s conversation, is that we’re all B2B marketers working in different markets, and it’s very important for us also to understand, especially here in North America where I’m based, it’s very important for marketers to understand that what may have been successful in this market might be a completely different situation than them in another market, right? So I guess we’re going to get into that today. So let’s dive in. I’m really looking forward to this conversation.  Hyein Yoon  02:03 Yeah, I’m so excited about this. Let’s do this.  Christian Klepp  02:05 Okay, fantastic. So Hyein, you’re, you’re on a mission to help companies scale their brands through strategic marketing in Korea, so in South Korea. So for this conversation, as I just said, We, we’d like to focus on the following topic, which is how B2B companies can build a successful content strategy for the Korean market. So I’d like to kick off this conversation with two questions, and I’m happy to repeat them. Okay, so first question is, wow, and we can talk about this one for hours, but just give us some top level answers. What are some of the key differences between B2B marketing in the west and Korea? So that’s the first question. And the second question is, what are some misconceptions that B2B companies have about doing business in Korea? Hyein Yoon  02:58 All right, that’s actually great questions, and I’m ready to answer everything possible to answer for the first question, actually, you have to understand that we have very difference between individuality and then collectiveness. And actually, when I visited the US for the first time, I realized so many things that we can actually make our customized plan, even at the restaurant, like you can make your customized burger sauce, the bun, bread or ingredients possible. But whereas in Korea, we don’t really prefer that option, it’s really uncomfortable to choose everything possible. For example, the subway, the sub sandwiches, they actually entered Korea, and they didn’t even realize that things like giving the options possible is really making uncomfortable customers. So they have to make the options to have the set menu combo. So you actually choose the numbers and then you get the all of the things ready made for you. You don’t have to choose. That was actually interesting story. So if I can go into more about the B2B market, we actually have some key factors, like hierarchical system and then result trust focused and the relationship driven.  Hyein Yoon  04:19 So actually, when I had a conversation with one of our guests on our podcast, he actually once mentioned this, and then this is kind of like overview that you can think of Korea really easily. So for example, when he have a conversation and then have a meeting for the first time, he maybe can share about the whole pictures about the companies or services or products, but after the first meeting, he will really not mention about the product or being salesy all the time until the prospect mentioned about what was your product you are talking about before. Can you talk about them more like because. We really value building a relationship first, not about really directness or, you know, being salesy or saving time. So it’s important to building the trust signal in the beginning, and then also in B2B market. When I had another conversation with someone specializing in sales and marketing from IBM, Korea, which is the biggest company in the world. She also mentioned that even if the company suggested you have to do everything online, but she didn’t agree with that, because she understand this, you know, hierarchical system, relationship driven system, so once you actually have a cold call or cold email, first she will be present offline, and then setting up meeting offline, so that you can actually make a relationship first, and then report. And then, you know, saving energy to have, you know, more meetings further for from the get go. So it’s important to have your presence offline. And then, of course, international business sometimes doesn’t have presence in Korea, so that’s why, maybe we can talk about later, having the local partner is important.  Hyein Yoon  06:11 And second question was about, yeah, the misconceptions that B2B companies have about. So this is actually also related to the key factors, for sure. And maybe you can think about online meetings are just fine, and then, you know, cold calls or cold emails, and then you set up the meetings all the time just online. But when you think about ROI (Return on Investment), actually, it makes sense just doing online. Maybe that’s the cost effective that you can approach. But if we just don’t know you at all, like you don’t have any presence in Korea, we had to research about your companies all the time, like case studies or like website all of that, only to realize it just would, you know translations? Yeah, there with English sometimes. So it doesn’t really make sense to us.  Hyein Yoon  07:00 And then the interesting part is that the English versus Korean language has different contexts, meaning English has a low context versus Korean language as a high context. So when we talk about some sentences like or speaking actually, sometimes it doesn’t mean the same way. So for example, when we say, let’s catch up later, but we have a mind reading skill like which is we call Nunchi. This is actually registered in Oxford dictionary, and we don’t really expect we are going to meet anytime soon. Or we can just say things because we want to be polite. So there are a lot of cultural nuances that you can think of. So online meetings are fine, or English is just fine, and translation is fine, something like we have to think about as a part of misunderstanding or misconceptions. And also 5% foreigners living in Korea in population, whereas 95% of our population is Korean, just who speaks Korean. mainly. That means, like, once we actually see English content, it’s just like Alien messages to sometimes. And then when you Google about how fluent our English is on Google, you would actually think about like, Oh, it’s just moderate. Oh, it’s just okay. But when you come to Korea, it’s not the case that you can actually have the imagination. And so most of time, like when we had a re

How Successful B2B Companies Are Increasing Their Web Traffic Many B2B companies struggle with generating quality website traffic that converts. They often focus on vanity metrics, and are obsessed with traffic volume rather than true visitor intent. The key to successful B2B SEO lies in understanding your ideal customer profile (ICP), what they’re looking for, and developing content that answers their needs, questions, and challenges. So how can B2B companies and their marketing teams develop smarter SEO strategies to drive the right website traffic? That’s why we’re talking to Nicholle Stacey (Chief Marketing Officer, Altitude B2B), who shares proven marketing strategies and expert insights on how successful B2B companies are increasing their web traffic. In this episode, Nicholle highlighted the importance of conducting a comprehensive website audit to identify technical SEO issues and improve domain health. She advised focusing on quality over quantity when it comes to web traffic, and how leveraging tools like reCAPTCHA eliminates spam bots. Nicholle stressed the value of domain authority, and how it is influenced by building trustworthiness through high-quality, seo-optimized content that answers client questions and earns backlinks from credible sources. She provided practical tips on tracking useful website metrics and stressed the need for a structured SEO approach. Nicholle also discussed how to optimize the use of AI and maintain a user-friendly web navigation experience. https://youtu.be/R6i9rUpnKFY Topics discussed in episode: [3:19] Common struggles B2B marketers face with SEO [4:46] How to get leadership buy-in for SEO investment [5:56] Key pitfalls that B2B marketers should avoid and how to focus on quality traffic [8:24] How AI is changing SEO strategies and search behavior [11:24] How to explain SEO value to business owners [13:05] Steps to grow web traffic from scratch Conduct a website audit to identify technical issues and improve domain health Identify your ideal client profile (ICP) Continuously improve the user navigation experience [17:07] How to measure content quality and performance [22:57] Why domain authority and backlinks matter Companies and links mentioned: Nicholle Stacey on LinkedIn Altitude B2B reCAPTCHA Semrush Ahrefs SE ranking Transcript Christian Klepp  00:00 Many companies struggle with generating the right traffic to their website. They obsess over quantity rather than quality. The key lies in understanding your ICP (Ideal Customer Profile), what they’re looking for and developing the right content to answer their questions. So how can B2B companies start getting their SEO (Search Engine Optimization) right and increase their web traffic from scratch. Welcome to this episode of the B2B Marketers in the Mission podcast, and I’m your host, Christian Klepp. Today, I’ll be talking to Nicholle Stacey, who will be answering this question. She’s the Chief Marketing Officer at altitude B2B who helps B2B companies to improve their SEO. Tune in to find out more about what this B2B marketers mission is.  Christian Klepp  00:41 And off we go. Nicholle Stacey, welcome to the show.  Nicholle Stacey  00:50 Thank you.  Christian Klepp  00:51 Great to have you on the show, and it’s great to chat with a fellow Canadian and a fellow Torontonian. I’m just gonna try not to talk about the traffic and the road works, and then we’ll be fine. Like, fantastic. So, um, if it’s all the same to you, let’s just jump right in, because I think this is a topic that man, B2B companies and their marketing teams should be paying attention to this stuff, if they’re not already, right?  Nicholle Stacey  01:19 Yes.  Christian Klepp  01:20 So I’m gonna say that you’re on a mission to help B2B companies elevate their online presence with SEO and Expert blog content. For this conversation, I would like to focus on the following topic, which is how B2B companies can increase web traffic from scratch. And that sounds like a pretty big deal, and it probably is, to a certain extent, right? But that’s why we’re here, right? Where we’re here to, like, break it all down, and we’re here to tell people that it’s not impossible, but it does require work. So let’s kick off the conversation with two questions, all right, and I’m happy to repeat them. So the first question is, what is it about SEO that you wish more B2B companies understood? And the second question is, where do you see B2B companies and their marketing teams struggle regarding the above? Nicholle Stacey  02:11 So for B2B SEO to make some progress on their own, first and foremost, I would say, take an audit, just see where your website’s performing. Look at your metrics. What is your traffic like? What type of traffic are you getting? Are you resonating with your ideal client profile? If not? Look at the audit, look at the technical fixes and look at your content. Are you answering questions that your ideal client might be asking into search engines, you really want to make sure that you’re positioning yourself in a manner where you’re that response and on the flip side, you want to address all of those technical issues and make sure that your domain health is really elevated so that Google sees you as trustworthy, credible, and is willing to show you as a search result to those users. And then I’m going to ask you to remind me the second question, please. Christian Klepp  03:11 Yeah, no, absolutely, absolutely. Where do you see a lot of B2B marketing teams struggle regarding SEO. Nicholle Stacey  03:19 The biggest struggle is they don’t understand, or fully comprehend, the power that SEO has in regard to their marketing and investment in marketing. I’ve seen time and time again with B2B businesses where they don’t take digital marketing seriously. In this day and age. It’s so fundamental, and it’s so important, because if you’re not doing that, you’re missing a big portion of the market share, depending on the industry that you’re in. If you can get even, you know, 1% more market share, that’s huge return on investment that you’ll get just from SEO. So it’s super important. And you know, they just need to realize that it’s a true value. Christian Klepp  04:05 From a marketers point of view. All the things that you’ve said make total sense. But as we all know, there are business owners out there, or, if it’s a larger organization, there are people in the senior management that let us say they don’t quite understand what SEO is. And B, I think something that’s even more dangerous is out of sight, out of mind. If I don’t know about it, then it means it’s not that important. And that couldn’t be any further from the truth, right?  Christian Klepp  04:35 So you’ve probably run into the situation before, so that’s what I’m going to ask you. But how do you get buy in from those types of folks to invest in SEO? Nicholle Stacey  04:42 Yeah.  Nicholle Stacey  04:46 Yeah, it’s so true. Like, out of sight, out of mind, you just pretend it’s not there, and you don’t address it. But the reality is, like I said, like, if you look at specific industries, you can look at the data. And I always say numbers don’t lie. Okay, I have my own data from my own clientele that I’ve worked with as well, where you really see the value in investing in SEO. So for people who are business owners, who, you know, they may not understand, or they’re just like, You know what, I really don’t need this, I would say, Well, who doesn’t want more market share. Who doesn’t want to connect with more clients? Is that what you’re telling me? Because if that’s the case, then Are you really serious about doing business? And if you do want that, then SEO is the way to go. And again, the numbers don’t lie. Christian Klepp  05:35 Absolutely, absolutely. I’m gonna segue to the next question, or move us on to the next question rather, which is about like key pitfalls to avoid. And so again, we’re on the topic of building up your web traffic from scratch. So one of these key pitfalls that B2B marketers should avoid, and what should they be doing instead? Nicholle Stacey  05:56 Yeah, I would say just don’t get overwhelmed. Take it one thing at a time. With SEO, there’s a lot of technical jargon that gets thrown around, and I always like to educate my clients on like what specific things mean and why they’re important and why we need to address that. So when you’re running an audit and you’re getting overwhelmed. Just really take a moment to take a deep breath. It’s all good, it’s all okay, and take it one step at a time. And you know, don’t get overwhelmed by that. Christian Klepp  06:31 Okay, okay. And what else should they be avoiding? Should they be avoiding the traffic trap, as they call it? Nicholle Stacey  06:40 Yeah, you want to be avoiding the traffic trap like you want to make sure that your traffic is, you know, quality traffic over quantity. There are certain things that you can do to ensure that you’re getting real quality traffic. One of the things that comes to mind is always make sure that you’re using, for example, reCAPTCHA, which is just basically a plugin that you use on your site, where, when users fill out a contact form, you can segregate from, you know, bot intakes versus real human intakes. So simple things like that can be a good practice to avoid falling into, you know, false numbers, so to speak. Christian Klepp  07:23 Yeah, no, absolutely, absolutely. I mean, there’s this, there’s this obsession about, like, numbers, right? Like, okay, like, look how much traffic we have versus, or what you actually should be focusing on is the quality of that traffic. Like, are there quality leads there coming to the website? Right?  Nicholle Stacey  07:39 Exactly. And that’s one thing too, that I would add, is before you even start implementing SEO like out of the gate, you should, as a bare minimum, be tracking these metrics from the get co just so you see where you’re at

How Marketing Teams Can Drive Pipeline Growth in 90 Days Today’s increasingly competitive B2B marketing landscape requires strategic thinking, resourcefulness, and the ability to turn challenges into opportunities to build more pipeline. If you were leading a small B2B marketing and leadership gave you just 90 days to show results, what would your approach be? That’s why we’re talking to return guest Sam Dunning (Founder, Breaking B2B), who shares proven B2B marketing strategies and expert insights on how marketing teams can drive pipeline growth in 90 days. During our conversation, Sam discussed the importance and challenges of SEO for B2B companies, and emphasized that SEO is crucial for mature markets with active demand. He talked about common pitfalls to avoid, such as the “traffic trap,” low-intent keywords, and focusing too much on high traffic. Sam also recommended that teams prioritize high-intent searches, leverage customer research, and build a moat of useful pages. He discussed the impact of AI on SEO and provided tips on quick wins such as listicles and value-exchange placements. Remember to also tune in for Sam’s 7-step plan to drive pipeline and deliver results quickly. https://youtu.be/7qYMLm9jRDA Topics discussed in episode: [1:34] The challenges and importance of SEO for B2B companies [4:58] Common SEO mistakes B2B marketers make, and what strategies to use instead [12:23] How to approach SEO for new categories and get leadership buy-in [16:24] The impact of AI on SEO and future trends B2B companies should prepare for [21:08] Key pitfalls that B2B marketers need to watch out for when it comes to SEO – Lack of prioritization across marketing activities – Falling into the “traffic trap” — chasing volume over qualified intent – Ignoring realistic capacity and spreading small teams too thin [24:16] 7 Steps SEO plan for driving pipeline in 90 days: Start where you win – map out the industries, problems, competitors and category terms Build a moat with useful pages focusing on buyer intent Look for quick wins: optimize existing content Leverage listicles Leverage past media for backlinks Control your narrative Move fast Companies and links mentioned: Sam Dunning on LinkedIn Breaking B2B Ahrefs LinkedIn  YouTube ChatGPT Reddit Chris Walker Adam Robinson Quora Transcript Christian Klepp  00:04 Mr. Sam Dunning, I’m gonna say, welcome back to the show, right? Good to have you back on. Sam Dunning  00:10 Hey, appreciate it, man, and glad I didn’t annoy too many people that weren’t protesting for do not get Sam back on for round two. So glad, glad I made it back. Christian Klepp  00:21 Nah, I’m pretty sure that they’re a fan of your online video series, and we’re gonna talk about that little bit later on in the conversation. I’m sure. Sam Dunning  00:32 Looking forward to it. Christian Klepp  00:33 Yeah, but you know, Sam, great to have you back on. You know the drill. We try to, like, not do any too much of the small talk here, cut off the fluff and just hop right to it. Looking forward to this conversation because you shared a LinkedIn post with me about a month ago now that I felt was really pertinent in terms of, like, what B2B marketers should be doing. So let’s dive right into that, right? Because you’ve been on a mission to help B2B companies to up their SEO (Search Engine Optimization) game, as you call it, for revenue, not vanity. So for this particular conversation, I’d like to zero in on the topic of how B2B marketing teams can crush their competitors with organic So let’s kick off the conversation with two questions, and I’m happy to repeat them. So first one is, why is it so important for B2B companies to get it right with SEO? And as a follow up to that one, where do you think many B2B companies get it wrong when it comes to SEO? Sam Dunning  01:34 Yeah, sure. So I suppose I should preface that first and foremost for as a B2B Company, SEO isn’t always the best thing to invest in, and now there’s a couple situations where it might not be a smart move. One is, which is quite common, especially in B2B Tech and SaaS, is if you’re creating almost a new category or a new solution or a new offering, where there isn’t active demand. What do I mean by active demand? Well, there isn’t any prospects that are aware of that solution or that offering, meaning that SEO might be the best bet, because people aren’t searching for it, whether that’s on Google search, whether that’s now on LLMs or similar, or it’s not always the best bet. If, let’s say you’ve perhaps got a leadership team that have never done SEO before. SEO is not an easy internal sell. It’s often, if I was to imagine a marketing budget for a B2B team as a barrel, usually SEO is scraping the bottom of it, and usually somewhere towards the top is things like outbound sales, yeah, plenty of budget for that. Paid media, yeah, plenty events, yeah. SEO is usually something that’s not given the kind of priority resource or similar. So there is a couple things you’ve got to consider. And also, hate to say it, but it’s not always the quickest thing. There are quick wins that you can yield with SEO. But if you’re a company that’s perhaps venture backed. You’re funded, you’ve got investors that want to see results super fast, whilst there can be quick wins as fast as 90 days with a solid SEO program, it’s not something like paid media or kind of super cold out cold calling, or things that we can kind of see, see appointments or meetings or demos booked relatively quickly. Usually you will need some kind of runway. I 90 days or so. So it needs to, needs to have that in mind.  Sam Dunning  03:27 But with that said, if you are a B2B company that is in a mature market, aka. your target clients know your offer or your solution or your software or service exists, then it’s a solid channel to get in front of those dream clients, when they have that high sales intent, when they have the problem you solve, when they need your solution. Now, when they’re actively in market, when they’re comparing options or comparing vendors, or they have kind of a good level of intent towards your solution, to get in front of them on Google organic search, or now LLMs (Large Language Models). And start kind of driving awareness, driving kind of high, high intent prospects to your website that could potentially be booked, calls, demos, sign ups, whatever your kind of end conversion point is, so that tees it up a little bit, hopefully in terms of how it can be effective. And I suppose when you compare SEO to paid media, whether that’s Google ads, LinkedIn ads or similar, opposed to paying for each and every click, you’ve got more of that evergreen effect where, just like when you do a YouTube search, right, like you might see content that’s a week old, a month old, or even years old, and SEOs are similar, like your content can work almost around the clock, and you’re not paying for each and every click. It kind of compounds over time with the right strategy in place, so that that hopefully teases up a little bit. And I forgot what the second part of your question was. Christian Klepp  04:52 No problem at all. Where do you see a lot of B2B marketing teams getting it wrong with SEO? Sam Dunning  04:58 There’s many, many ways. So one is trying to do SEO. If there’s not actually active demand for your offer, I maybe you’re a new solution, new category that your dream clients know about. In that case, I would suggest that you actually work out where your ICP or your ideal client profile spends time, where they get their trusted information from, and one of the best ways to do that is with customer research, whether that’s leveraging sales calls or actually interviewing kind of target prospects, or recently churn clients or recently won clients. Understanding what are those top two three channels they get their trust information from, be it a podcast, maybe they listen to certain industry podcasts or newsletters, or hang out on LinkedIn and work out that spend time there, educating them, talking about the problem you solve, positioning your product as a painkiller, building trust, social proof, authority, and that’s more much more likely to get your clients than SEO is.  Sam Dunning  05:46 Where else do folks get SEO wrong? Well, let’s pretend you are in a segment. You are providing an offer that’s known, and you do have potential clients searching for it. Well, most of the time it’s we often see companies falling into what I call the quote, unquote traffic trap. So they’re going after, let’s call it real top funnel informational based searches. And that could be something like, what is a CRM (Customer Relationship Management), or how to build a website, or what is a KPI (Key Performance Indicators), or those kind of real high level queries, informational based stuff. And the thing is, if you search for those kind of keywords on tools like Ahrefs, they might show up as having tons of traffic. But the issue is, if someone’s searching for something like how to or what is, or things like that, they’re probably super early in their journey. They might even be a student. They’re just looking for information about that. But what’s worse is a lot of those queries now, especially on Google search, are being wiped out by AI overviews. So the instant result above the fold, where Google will give you an instant explanation to the question, sometimes cite a website, sometimes not. And the problem is, whilst historically, that was a big SEO play, kind of go for super high traffic search terms, build content around them, get traffic at all costs, and a small chunk of that will convert. Nowadays, it doesn’t really make sense as a strategy, purely because AI, AI is wiping out a lot of it.  Sam Dunning  07:14 And secondly, because even if those prospects do eventually click through to your website, be it an article or landing page or similar, in most cases, they’ll get the information they need

How Understanding Your B2B Buyers Can Drive Predictable Growth Many B2B marketing and sales teams miss the mark with potential prospects because they focus more on products and features rather than the customer’s pain points, objectives, and key business challenges. To grow sustainably, both teams must be more aligned around how they help create true business transformation and positive outcomes for their customer’s business. So how can understanding your B2B buyers lead to greater success? That’s why we’re talking to Braedi DeLong (COO, The Sales Collective), who shares proven strategies and expert insights on how understanding your B2B buyers can drive predictable growth. In this episode, Braedi explained why the outdated “spray and pray” approach is no longer effective, and emphasized the need for targeted, intentional marketing. She expanded on the importance of clearly defining a realistic Ideal Customer Profile (ICP) and understanding stakeholder dynamics. Braedi shared real-world examples of effective marketing strategies such as targeting specific buyer personas, and how to leverage grassroots marketing. She highlighted the marketing team’s role in building trust and credibility, and stressed the importance of human connections and reliable information sources over digital marketing. https://youtu.be/8a_0foTkWO0 Topics discussed in episode: [2:14] Key challenges of the “spray and pray” strategy in B2B marketing [8:32] Why B2B marketers should reframe how they think about marketing [15:05] How B2B buyers have changed in recent years. and the implications to B2B businesses [23:55] How to define and leverage ideal customer profiles (ICPs) [29:50] An example of how marketing can help sales generate more qualified leads through understanding the stakeholder roadmap  [34:19] Practical steps B2B marketers can take to improve marketing effectiveness Companies and links mentioned: Braedi DeLong on LinkedIn  The Sales Collective LinkedIn  Wikipedia G2 Gartner Todd Rose Transcript Christian Klepp  00:00 Many marketing and sales teams out there miss the mark with potential prospects because they focus on products and features instead of the customer’s pain points and key challenges, both teams need to be more aligned in terms of how they can help transform the customer’s business by addressing their pain points. So how can understanding your B2B buyers drive true business growth. Welcome to this episode of the B2B Marketers on a Mission podcast, and I’m your host, Christian Klepp. Today, I’ll be talking to Braedi DeLong, who will be answering this question. She’s the CEO of The Sales Collective who helps companies build successful sales teams. Tune in to find out more about what her mission is. Off we go. I’m gonna say Braedi DeLong, welcome to the show.  Braedi DeLong  00:47 Thank you for having me.  Christian Klepp  00:49 So great to have you on, Braedi. We had such an amazing pre interview conversation in spite of some hiccups, right? I’m just gonna leave it at that. But I’m really looking forward to this conversation, because folks are going to ask me this, or they usually do. They’re like, Wait, hang on a second. Christian, isn’t your show about B2B marketers, so why do you have a sales person on the show? Well, I think that for at least in my opinion, and from my experience, it makes perfect sense to get sales people involved in B2B marketing, but we’re gonna dive right in, and I’m really looking forward to discussing this with you. Braedi DeLong  01:27 Same and we both hold such a belief about the core value of aligning sales and marketing because they are part of the revenue team. Christian Klepp  01:35 Absolutely, absolutely okay, so Braedi, you’re on a mission, I’m gonna say, to help B2B companies to build scalable, winning sales teams. So for this conversation, I’d like to focus on the following topic, which I think is really important. It’s how understanding your B2B buyers can drive true business growth. So I’d like to kick off this conversation with two questions, and I’m happy to repeat them. So the first question is, why do you think it’s so important for B2B marketers to understand who the organization’s customers and buyers are? And number two, where do you see most marketing teams struggle regarding the above? Braedi DeLong  02:14 Yeah, it’s a great question. So when it comes to understanding your buyers, there’s so many marketers and sales organizations alike that deploy what is known as the spray and pray strategy, where if we just get really high awareness, the customers will kind of come and trickle down out of that really high awareness. And there’s it’s a bit of a fallacy in both organizations that if you just gain a considerable awareness that the business will generate, that it creates an excessive cost of customer acquisition, the amount of work and effort it takes to get that awareness machine, and it doesn’t help you create a actual dialed in, scalable structure or system. So a lot of times, we’re really wasting resources and efforts across the full spectrum of the revenue machine, because we just haven’t dialed in. Who are our buyers, who are our ideal customers? What do they look like from a company perspective, who are the actual buying personas that can purchase our stuff. Where do they come from? From a campaign level? So as we think about like creating sustainable business growth, understanding who your buyers are is really at the core of creating a healthy business model. And I know I said a lot in that statement with very few words. But there’s one of the biggest fallacies in the revenue engine, is understanding how that creates sustainable business. Christian Klepp  03:51 Absolutely, absolutely. And I couldn’t agree more. I mean this, this spray and pray. It’s interesting that you still see day in, day out, whether it’s on LinkedIn or in your inbox, people that still subscribe to this school of thought, and I can’t claim credit for this, because many people have mentioned it on LinkedIn. You don’t even see SDRs (Sales Development Representative) or BDRs (Business Development Representatives) like reaching out to you in a passive, aggressive way. They reach out to you in an active, aggressive way. And let me give you an example. If they send you an email saying, hey, Braedi, you know, your profile caught my attention. And love what you’re doing at the sales collective, although they have no idea what it is, you actually do, cue sales pitch, then you ignore that email. Then they send a follow up, bumping this, bumping this to the top of your inbox. And I think by the third or the fourth round, then they say something like, are you actually the person that I should be talking to, or could you direct me to the person who’s in charge? I’m like, wow. And you know, we can sit here and joke about it, but the reality of it is, it’s actually pretty shocking that there are sales people out there that think that that will help them get in the door. So what are your thoughts on that? Like, Why is this still happening in 2025? Braedi DeLong  05:13 So I think it’s getting worse in 2025 to be fair, like as more and more people move to AI (Artificial Intelligence) and leveraging AI. AI is really limited to just cloning what it’s been trained on. So it’s actually these ineffective strategies are becoming bigger very the spray and pray is actually growing because of the accessibility of the tooling and it, you know, it’s, I had a, actually, it was my, yeah, last night I got a LinkedIn prospecting. And I gave the person a shot. They sent me a connection request with a very thoughtful note in the connection request. And I was like, Okay, I’m going to accept this one. So I accept it, and I thank him for his thoughtful note. I was like, I recognize you as a BDR, I know I’m getting to get some sort of pitch. I know I’m being prospected. But he did the thoughtful work, and I wanted to reward it. But then his next message to me was, what are the business priorities for you right now? And because he sent me the thoughtful note, I decided. I was like, Okay, I’m gonna give him a moment of my time, effort and energy. I’m not just gonna go ahead and, like, move on with my life.  Braedi DeLong  06:28 And I was like, I want you to think about what you just did, and I want you to think about it in this different social context. Imagine you met a married couple at a social event, and you just introduced yourself and learned their names. I’m like, Are you with me? And he’s like, yeah. It’s like, I want you to imagine your next question to them after you met Beth and Jeff, that you go, are there any problems in your marriage?  Christian Klepp  06:28 Sure.  Christian Klepp  06:57 Yeah.  Braedi DeLong  06:57 And I’m like, how skeeved out? Do you feel right now. And he was like, very uncomfortable with that question. And I was like, you just did that to me. You just did the business version of that to me. And I’m like, so let’s rewind the tape. How do you help organizations and what domain do you play in? And it was funny, and it’s relevant for here. He was like, I sell marketing services. Like, okay.  Christian Klepp  07:20 Yeah.  Braedi DeLong  07:20 You know, it’s like, it’s just so interesting. And I was like, so you don’t need to know about my business priorities. You need to understand my marketing priorities, right? They’re different. Like, you’re not here to help me with product development. You’re not here to help me with accounting. You’re not here to help me with like, an ERP (Enterprise Resource Planning) system. You sell marketing services, so you don’t need to know my business priorities. You’re here to ask about my marketing priorities and whether or not I have enough resources to achieve them. And I’m like bringing the human back into that area engagement . It’s just fascinating to me, how few people know how to do it, know how to do it well. And it’s like everybody is operating

How to Create Powerful B2B Messaging That Converts In today’s competitive B2B marketing landscape, where trust gaps are widening, convincing and demonstrating to a buying committee that you’re the right partner has become more challenging than ever before. It requires a deeper understanding of a company’s challenges, the demand triggers, the selection process, and decision-making dynamics. So how can marketers craft B2B messaging that influences and engages with every member of the buying committee? That’s why we’re talking to Doug Abbott (CEO, Contrasted Marketing), who shares proven strategies on how to create powerful B2B messaging that converts. During our conversation, Doug discussed the importance of B2B marketers tailoring messaging to address the specific concerns, needs, and priorities of the different buying committee members. He also emphasized the value of audience-led messaging and recommended leveraging internal and external research to develop a robust messaging matrix. Doug shared some common mistakes and warned against relying solely on AI for messaging. He also explained why human expertise and strategic differentiation are paramount to crafting messaging that truly stands out. https://youtu.be/XltT_ALUGLI Topics discussed in episode: [2:04] The importance of targeting different members of the buying committee in B2B marketing [2:45] Where most marketing teams struggle regarding the buying committee [4:08] How to craft effective messaging tailored to different buyer personas [5:17] Key pitfalls B2B marketers need to avoid when approaching the buying committee—and what to do instead: Focus on audience-led messaging over product-led messaging Research and identify pain points Segment the audience and target based on needs Position the products to address the pain points and needs [11:00] Strategic positioning and how to influence the buying committee [14:46] The role of AI in messaging and competitive analysis [22:51] Actionable tips for B2B marketers on improving the effectiveness of messaging: Identify the buying committee members  Understanding their pain points through customer and sales insights Build a messaging matrix to align messaging with the specific needs of each buying committee member Test the messaging through A/B testing Companies and links mentioned: Doug Abbott on LinkedIn Contrasted Marketing G2 Capterra ChatGPT Transcript Christian Klepp  00:00 We all know that in B2B marketing, convincing and demonstrating to a buying committee that you are the right partner and company of choice is no small feat. It requires a deeper understanding of a company’s challenges, the demand triggers, how they buy, how they make decisions, and their selection criteria. So how can B2B marketers develop the right messaging that speaks to different members of the buying committee. Welcome to this episode of the B2B Marketers on a Mission podcast, and I’m your host, Christian Klepp. Today, I’ll be talking to Douglas Abbott, who will be answering this question. He’s the CEO and Founder at Contrasted, which helps B2B companies not only generate leads, but also get the right results. Tune in to find out more about what this B2B marketers mission is. All right, and I’m gonna say, Mr. Douglas Abbott, welcome to the show.  Douglas Abbott  00:55 Thanks. Great to be here.  Christian Klepp  00:57 Great to have you on the show. Douglas, I’m really looking for this conversation, because, man, this is something that I think B2B marketing teams really need to pay more attention to. Let’s not keep the audience in suspense for too long. Let’s just dive right into the topic. If we can, let’s do it all. Right, fantastic. Okay, so Douglas, you’re, I’m gonna say you’re on a mission to combine strategy, execution and proprietary AI to drive real pipeline. But for this conversation, I’d like to focus on the topic of how B2B marketers can develop messaging that speaks to different members of the buying committee. And I know a lot of people, they probably glaze over that, or they probably feel that that’s someone else’s job, but I have been in situations as I’m sure you have, where I’ve seen that go, all right, right, so let’s kick off the conversation with two questions, and I’m happy to repeat them. Okay, so question number one is, why do you think it’s so important for B2B marketers to understand who the different members of the buying committee are? And number two, where do you see most marketing teams struggle regarding the above? Douglas Abbott  02:04 Yeah, so you know, I think the reason it’s so important is that in most of these, you know, large B2B purchase decisions, it’s going to touch multiple departments. So you know, those decisions to buy a product like they rarely rest with one person. There is the buying committee. So when you talk about the buying committee, you know each person is going to care about different outcomes, and they’re going to want different things from a product, from a software. So, you know, the CFO might want cost efficiency, the head of ops might want usability. The CIO might care about how it integrates with their current tech stack.  Douglas Abbott  02:45 So and I think where I see people struggle is that they will focus on a generic message that might be relevant to an organization, but they’re not actually speaking to the needs and outcomes that those individual members of the buying committee want. Christian Klepp  03:04 Yeah, yeah, no, that’s absolutely right. It’s, it’s this whole, I hate to use this, because I feel it’s so overused, but like, one size fits all right. Like, it’s one of these. Like, okay, well, let’s just have this very top level generic messaging that that appeals to everybody. But yeah, guess what? No, it does not to your point. It’s the CFO. One of my favorite people is, yeah, is going to look at something? It’s going to look at it from a different lens, as compared to somebody who’s in operations, who is in procurement. I imagine procurement, slash purchasing. Who is in it, or the CSOs, etc, etc, right? So…  Douglas Abbott  03:48 Yeah, yeah, exactly.  Christian Klepp  03:50 Okay. And why? Why do you think it’s all so based on, based on that and based on understanding that all of these people have different roles and responsibilities. What role will the marketing team have to play in investigating and finding out who those people are and what they’re looking for? As a follow up question. Douglas Abbott  04:08 The marketing team should know who, everyone in the organization should know who the members of the buying committee are. If that’s not happening, then you know the marketing team should be talking to leadership, to sales, to everyone about, you know, understanding who those people are when it comes to, you know, marketing’s role. That’s where we can talk about, you know, how to focus messaging. So I think in overall kind of message about your company, what your product does, like one broad message, it’s okay, but when you think about how to actually move people through the pipeline, you need to speak to each one of those people individually. So that’s where marketing can help craft what those messages need to be to each one of those people on the buying committee. Christian Klepp  04:59 Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I’m going to move us on to the next question, which is about these you know, if we’re talking about crafting the right messaging, right for members the buying committee, what are some of these key pitfalls that B2B marketers need to avoid, and what should they be doing instead? Douglas Abbott  05:17 I would say that people are probably focusing a lot on product led messaging. My product does this. It does that. It can save X amount of time, X amount of money. All those things are good, but they need to be applied to the right person. So it should be focusing on audience led messaging. And then, you know, later, that’ll bring us into how do you segment your audience? How do you target them differently? You’ll need to figure that out, but you can have an overall message that goes to everyone, but you also need to supplement that with, you know, the key benefits, values, outcomes that each person is going to get. Who’s on that buying committee? Christian Klepp  05:58 Absolutely, absolutely. What are some of these other pitfalls that you think they should be avoiding, or perhaps what should they be doing instead? Is rather understanding, like what each of the pain points of these members of the buying committee are, because that way they would understand, okay, so the finance guy has a different pain point from the operations guy, which almost sounds like table stakes, but in reality, if you dig deeper to understand, okay, so that’s what their challenge is. That’s what they’re mandated to do, and therefore, that’s what they’re looking for in a solutions provider, that knowledge might be helpful, right? Douglas Abbott  06:38 Yeah, exactly. And that’s kind of where research starts to come into play. And I think that’s another big area where marketing can help. Christian Klepp  06:44  Absolutely. And thank you for setting that up. And so please do tell right, how can, how can they help by and how can they lead with research? Walk us through that process. Douglas Abbott  06:57 Yeah, so I think there’s, there’s kind of two places to look for research. There’s internal and there’s external. When you’re talking about internal, you know, your sales team, your customer support team and your customers, there’s so much you can mine from that you know your sales team can help understand, like, which product features or benefits can, you know, really light up the conversation when they’re doing a demo, customer support can tell you pain points, how they’re feeling. And then you know, most importantly, like your customers can tell you exactly how your products helping them. And you know that can, that can be at the individual buying committ

How to Make Your B2B Marketing Stand Out With so much digital noise and intense competition in today’s B2B marketing landscape, now more than ever, marketing teams need to go the extra mile to differentiate their companies. Many, however, fall into the trap of sounding like everyone else or defaulting to pricing and features. So what can B2B brands do to stand out and capture their audience’s attention? That’s why we’re talking to David J. Ebner (Founder, Content Workshop), who shares insights and expert strategies on how to make your B2B marketing stand out. During our conversation, David emphasized the need to create unique, insightful, and customer-centric content that doesn’t disrupt the audience’s flow. He also discussed the importance of giving away actionable advice to demonstrate true expertise and build trust. He elaborated on the power of B2B brand storytelling that focuses on customer needs, pain points, and emotional connection. David also highlighted the need for marketers to continuously test their content to find out what’s working or not. https://youtu.be/cniJ6uBzgLI Topics discussed in episode: [3:25] How to stand out by being relevant, insightful, and engaging [4:32] How to deliver real value to the audience, and balance between volume and quality [8:23] Key pitfalls in B2B marketing when trying to stand out, and what should be done instead [12:59] How to do B2B brand storytelling effectively [16:07] How to get buy-in for brand storytelling within your organization [27:25] Examples of how brands can stand out in saturated B2B markets [29:19 The role of AI in content marketing [35:47] Actionable tips for B2B marketers on how to apply storytelling and strategy effectively: Involve the operations and service teams in content creation Match content with the appropriate medium Use AI to improve efficiency while maintaining a focus on quality Ask questions about the purpose and impact of the content [38:59] The emotional impact of brand storytelling on audiences Companies and links mentioned: David J. Ebner on LinkedIn Content Workshop ChatGPT Netflix Hulu Google Jerry Seinfeld Transcript Christian Klepp  00:01 With so much digital noise and intensely competitive markets out there, now more than ever, B2B brands need to go the extra mile to set themselves apart. Many, however, fall into the trap of sounding like everyone else. So what can B2B brands do to stand out amidst the noise? Welcome to this episode of the B2B Marketers in the Mission podcast, and I’m your host. Christian Klepp. Today, I’ll be talking to David J Ebner, who will be answering this question. He is the founder and CEO of Content Workshop, which helps small and overworked marketing teams and transformative industries to reach their business goals. Tune in to find out more about what this B2B marketers mission is. Mr. David J Ebner, welcome to the show, sir.  David J Ebner  00:48 Thanks for having me, Christian.  Christian Klepp  00:50 And David, you know what? Like I feel like just talking to you. I feel like we’ve known each other a million years.  David J Ebner  00:55 It does feel that way, yeah.  Christian Klepp  00:57 But this is the power of connection, right? Like…  David J Ebner  00:59 Yeah.  Christian Klepp  01:00 But listen, I’m really looking forward to diving in today, because this is a topic that’s also close to my heart. This is something that you’re passionate about, or should I say to you know, to make it appropriate for the show, this is what you’re on a mission on, right? This is part of your mission. So I’d like to dive right in to the first question. And let me just pull this up here. You’re on a mission to help B2B companies and people grow through storytelling. So for this conversation, I’d like to focus on the topic of how to make your B2B marketing stand out in saturated markets. And let me tell you, man in B2B, that is so true. There are so many companies that are fighting and competing and markets that are becoming increasingly saturated out there, so that’s why I think this is so pertinent for our audience. So I want to kick off this conversation with two questions, and I’m happy to repeat them. So question number one, why do you think it’s so important for B2B companies in this day and age to stand out and be the signal amidst the noise, as it were? And where do you see a lot of marketing teams struggle? David J Ebner  02:11 Yeah, I don’t know how much time do we have for this podcast, because we could spend the whole time on this.  Christian Klepp  02:17 Absolutely, absolutely.  David J Ebner  02:19 It’s really tough. It’s always been important to stand out. Today is just more difficult. I feel, you know, I’ve been doing this now longer than I care to admit, right there’s gray hair is starting to come to me faster than I like, but it seemed 10, 20, years ago, is a little bit easier to stand out. Not only is the market more saturated now, the marketing is more saturated now. So you have more vendors, more competition. You have like these, I don’t know, not direct competitors, but the people that are like in your sphere of influence that can be pulling people away from, potentially your brand, certainly your awareness, awareness of your brand and your time. And then on top of that, you have a million different tools that you can use as a marketer to generate content faster and more of it, right? We are tying lots, as they used to say in the scouts when I was younger, right? You know, there’s less targeting with the marketing. So it’s, it’s important, and it’s becoming even more important because it’s harder to do.  David J Ebner  03:25 I believe that the best way that you can stand out is to look for the option to be interruptive, right? You want to interrupt the flow. You don’t want to disrupt it so much. You don’t want to throw people completely off. You just want them to, like, have a little moment of, Oh, interesting like, that’s, that’s really what you’re trying to achieve as a marketer. And that’s a way to stand out, is to have more Oh, interesting moments, right? There’s a lot of different ways to do that. You can literally just Zig when everybody else is sagging, right? Like, if everybody’s doing X, you can do Y, something a little bit different, but not something that’s going to like, completely take them out of the mode that they’re in, the medium that they’re in, whatever they’re consuming content on or marketing on, whether it’s social media or an email or billboards, I don’t know, like it can really be anything. You don’t want to be completely disruptive. You just want to interrupt slightly, and that’s how you stand out. And I am definitely going to need the second question repeated, Christian. Christian Klepp  04:24 Where do you see marketing teams struggle with standing out like because, you know, at the end of the day, people keep saying, Oh, they all sound the same. David J Ebner  04:32 Yeah, that’s a great point too. And I do think it has a lot to do with the question one point B, right? Which is that there’s just so much more volume out there right now. And I think people are following the trap of more is more. More is not more when it comes to marketing, right? If you don’t have a unique opinion about something, you shouldn’t be saying something about it at all. That’s always been my opinion. You know? I love, you know, I don’t mind seeing people post on social media, particularly like happy this holiday, happy that holiday. Happy Thanksgiving. Everybody that’s one that goes across both borders, right? Happy Thanksgiving. But that’s not a unique opinion about something like as a consumer, some of you, you want to try to pull their attention away from them. You want the most valuable thing they have, which is their unlimited resource of time and attention. You’re trying to get that from people right? You really need to give them something of value in return. And I think we need to just take a step back every time we’re producing a piece of content, and ask us, who is this helping? How is it helping them? And is the exchange worth it, right? Like the time and energy that they’re going to give you to consume this piece of content, this piece of marketing, is it worth that? That value to them of their time and attention, right? We call it the great barter over here, but it’s value versus time, and that’s, that’s, that’s, I think that’s a place a lot of marketers fall short, especially in the age of AI, you know, there’s just easy to produce a lot of stuff, but there also it gives you an opportunity to produce great thing, things of great value as well, too. And that that could literally be the thing that’s the that’s interruptive, is literally the content you produce is just of higher value. That’s really all it could be. Christian Klepp  06:22 Absolutely, absolutely. I wanted to go back to what you said earlier about being interruptive, right? And it’s not because I want to play the devil’s advocate, but you know that there’s a camp out there that says, What interruptive if it’s not providing any value to me, if it’s not useful to me, if it’s not interesting or insightful, then, yes, in fact, it is an interruption to my usual workday and flow. And yeah, your thoughts on that? David J Ebner  06:49 Yeah, you know, so much stuff is just living in the sea of sameness right now, right? Like, so much stuff just looks like everything else. So I think actually being interruptive, whereas in the past, you may have said, well, this thing that produces me no value is actually the interrupt development. Now, because so many things produce so little value, being the thing of value would be the interrupt development. So it’s kind of flipped itself on its head a little bit, because there’s so much volume out there right now. So literally, I think just producing the thing of value can be that, that interruptive nature. Now you gotta be careful. It’s a fine line to dance, right? Chr

How to Go from Outbound to 95% Inbound Marketing Many B2B companies waste much time, budget, and resources on outbound marketing initiatives that generate poor or inconsistent results. While the reasons may vary, much of it can be attributed to a lack of understanding of how the company’s ideal customers conduct research, evaluate, and make purchasing decisions. So what can B2B marketers do to shift their approach to drive higher-quality leads and achieve sustainable growth? That’s why we’re talking to Ronan McDonnell (Managing Director, CMO Mojo), who shares proven strategies around how to go from outbound to a 95% inbound marketing approach. During our conversation, Ronan explained how B2B companies can best leverage inbound strategies for reducing headcount in sales, improve the quality of leads, and attract potential investors. He also shared some common pitfalls that B2B marketers should avoid, and provided some practical tips on targeted market research, developing a scalable inbound strategy, and to how effectively coordinate with sales teams for better impact. Ronan also stressed the need for social proof, competitive analysis, and continuous improvement across marketing channels. https://youtu.be/LNzyjUJGDlc Topics discussed in episode: [3:13] Why B2B companies are transitioning from outbound to inbound marketing [5:02] The importance of making the outbound-to-inbound switch [9:59] Key challenges and pitfalls to avoid  Not focusing on niche targeting Ignoring digital PR Lack of healthy backlinks and original content [13:40] Strategic steps B2B marketers should take when switching from outbound to inbound [28:26] How to handle pushback and manage pressure to deliver immediate results [31:09] Actionable tips for B2B marketers: Recognize that buyers are self-educators Collect and showcase customer reviews/testimonials Identify competitor spaces and be present in those spaces Open, improve, and test out marketing channels Develop clear marketing roadmaps Champion the internal communications Fail quickly and measure your success  Companies and links mentioned: Ronan McDonnell on LinkedIn CMO Mojo  G2 Capterra Quora Reddit ChatGPT Cloud Perplexity Transcript Christian Klepp  00:00 Many B2B companies spend far too much time, budget and resources on outbound initiatives that yield little or mediocre results. The reasons for these outcomes vary, but much of it can be attributed to a lack of understanding of how the company’s ideal customers make decisions and buy.What if I told you that there is a way for you to go from fully outbound to 95% inbound. How would that change the trajectory of your business? Welcome to this episode of the B2B Marketers on a Mission podcast, and I’m your host, Christian Klepp. Today, I’ll be talking to Ronan McDonnell, who will be answering this question. He’s the founder of CMO Mojo, who helps B2B companies think smarter about how they implement their marketing initiatives, tune in to find out more about what this B2B marketers mission is. All right, I’m gonna say Mr. Ronan McDonnell, welcome to the show, sir.  Ronan McDonnell  00:55 Hey. How are you? Thanks for having me. Good to see you.  Christian Klepp  00:58 Pleasure to have you on the show, Ronan, and I’m really looking forward to this conversation, and I’m not going to give too much away at this point in time, but you know, when we got on the pre interview call, you dropped this topic and suggested that we talk about it in this interview. And I thought, Hmm, that’s a pretty bold claim, but you know, let’s, let’s give it a shot. So let’s, uh, let’s not keep the audience in suspense too long here, but I’m gonna just dive right into it, if you don’t mind.  Ronan McDonnell  01:28 Sure, absolutely.  Christian Klepp  01:29 Fantastic. Okay, so, Ronan, you’re on a mission to help B2B companies to develop transformational marketing strategies that will help them scale and grow their business. But for this conversation, we’re going to focus on the topic, which I said is slightly controversial, but here we go, and it is how to go from fully outbound to 95% inbound, in B2B. So I’m going to kick off this conversation with two questions, and I’m happy to repeat them. So the first one is, provide us with examples that help substantiate this bold claim. And the second part of the question is, why do you think it’s important for B2B companies to make this strategic switch?  Ronan McDonnell  02:11 Yeah, I suppose it does come across like a bit of a bold claim, really, doesn’t it? But to be honest with you, it’s kind of what I’ve come across most in my marketing career to date, in most places I’ve ended up working, you know, it’s always been kind of outbound sales led, which makes sense, you know, somebody starts a business and they’re, you know, it’s founder led sales, and then it’s outbound selling and things like that. But ultimately, there comes a point where, you know, the company wants to get some inbound leads as well, and not to rely specifically on just outbound. So, yeah, it’s kind of what I’ve just become accustomed to. I suppose, to answer your question, to substantiate the claim, you know, I worked in a B2B SaaS (Software as a Service) company, not most recently, but just before that, and the entire company, you know, a seven figure ARR (Annual Recurring Revenue) company was built 95% outbound cold calling, you know. And that’s a grind, not even using ABM (Account-Based Marketing) or tactics or anything like that. So, you know, there was some referral clients from a good network that the leadership team had, of course.  Ronan McDonnell  03:13 But you know how first thing to say really is, kudos to a company to actually be able to do that, but we they wanted to start a marketing function, and they saw the value in actually getting inbound leads. And, you know, every sales person’s dream is really not to be doing cold calling, at least have something to reference on, on warmer exchanges, or have a steady stream of leads coming into them, you know, so they can come into work on a Monday morning and they don’t have to worry about, oh, I just have to hope this guy is within ICP (Ideal Customer Profile) before I call him. There’s lots that marketing have done before they’re ever on the phone. So within 12 months, we were able to flip that around. There’s, I think there was five or six sales people, and that was BD (Business Development) or SDR  (Sales Development Representative) , cold calling lead generation people in the company. So we were able to switch that around from 90,  95% of leads coming from outbound sales, and flip it completely the other way, where only about 5% were coming from outbound sales, the inbound leads were taking over the sales people. Sales people’s time enough. Yeah. So it was great that way. We were able to reduce headcount in the sales team at that level, but we were able to promote some of the people to account executive roles, to work deeper on into sales or deeper down the sales funnel, which was really positive. And then we reserved about, I say, two maximum in the lead generation space. So yeah, it was, it was really positive. And yeah, it took about 12 months to do, which was good. But I think, you know, most companies can achieve it. Whether it takes a little bit longer or not. It’s really, it’s really good for the future of the company, outside the first 12 months anyway, you know. So sales is a numbers game, optimized by performance and talent and great and skill and training, all of that kind of thing. But really, if you can optimize, optimize those people that are on the phone with. Your Sales Team speaking to them, you can, you can get a lot more done.  Ronan McDonnell  05:02 So yeah, to answer your second part of your question, why do I think it’s important for B2B companies to make that switch from outbound to inbound? You know, I have a few points on it, but it comes down to a few key things, obviously, head count, the cost of that in sales teams, particularly, along with turnover in sales teams. You know, relying on people to hit the ground running every Monday morning to make call after call, especially when they’re cold, is really tough to do. I personally think, because I worked in sales for a long time, that there is a shelf life on that people don’t tend to stay lead gen forever. I think there’s a limit to the amount of sales calls you can make in your life if you’re not either going into an account exec role or deeper into the sales funnel. So having a predictable inbound engine in place really kind of makes sense there. You know, sales people need to have a pipeline of warm leads and warm engagements. Even you know, just anything warm to reference on a call and to give a purpose for a conversation to take place. It just tends to convert better, of course, as well.  Ronan McDonnell  06:05 You know, another big point, really. It might not be important for everyone, but certainly for someone listening it is, funding and scaling. So if you’re looking to scale your company or take on funding, or go through funding round, Series A, Series B, etc, there does need to be evidence of demand and a pipeline there, and evidence that you’re able to fill that pipeline without relying on, you know, cold calling and just sales on its own. It should be a combination of sales and marketing. So in my experience, investors always like to see, or in some cases, they need to see, you know, not just the funnel, but the world above the funnel. You know, your new leads, your warmer leads, the caliber of those companies who might be attending your webinars or downloading your reports and guides or signaling in some way that they view you as an authority in the space they need to see that world before, just, just, just before the funnel actually kicks in, you know? So, yeah, I would never say abandon outbound. That skill needs to be alive and well in your organization, especially if y

How to Strengthen Your B2B Differentiation with Competitive Intelligence They say that information is power. In the ever-changing and increasingly competitive B2B landscape, it’s also a strategic advantage. When used effectively, it empowers companies to grow profitably, scale rapidly and outsmart their competitors. So how can B2B companies harness the power of competitive and market intelligence (CI & MI) to drive profitable growth? That’s why we’re talking to Layton Cox (Senior Director of Competitive Intelligence & Strategy Consulting, Sedulo Group),  who shared his experience and provided valuable insights on how to strengthen your B2B differentiation with competitive intelligence. During our conversation, Layton emphasized the importance of primary research over the reliance on secondary data, and elaborated on the value of internal data and direct competitor insights. He also discussed building a centralized intelligence framework for data storage and conducting primary research to uncover unique competitive advantages. Layton also talked about how teams can break down silos within organizations, sharing research findings across business units, and shared common pitfalls that marketing teams should avoid. https://youtu.be/eKUOkk9C-wE Topics discussed in episode: [1:59] Understanding the fundamentals of Competitive Intelligence (CI) and Market Intelligence (MI) [5:27] The role of AI in Competitive Intelligence and Market Intelligence  [9:19] Key challenges and pitfalls faced by B2B marketing teams in intelligence gathering and sharing [14:59] How to overcome objections to conducting primary research [17:51] Building internal alignment and effectively sharing insights across teams [20:50] Practical techniques for gathering primary intelligence [22:42] Mystery shopping in B2B [31:38] Actionable tips for B2B marketers: Build a framework Leverage internal data Find competitors internal data Share with internal teams [35:01] Key metrics and how data-driven decisions drive growth Companies and links mentioned: Layton Cox on LinkedIn  Sedulo Group  Nielsen Kantar ChatGPT Copilot Transcript Christian Klepp  00:00 They say that information is power and in the ever changing and increasingly competitive B2B landscape, information can help you to move the needle and outsmart your competitors. So how can B2B companies use and leverage competitive and market intelligence to drive profitable growth? Welcome to this episode of the B2B Marketers on a Mission podcast, and I’m your host, Christian Klepp. Today, I’ll be talking to Layton Cox, who will be answering this question. As the Senior Director of competitive intelligence at Sedulo Group, Layton helps B2B companies leverage data and insights to maximize their competitive advantage. Tune in to find out more about what this B2B marketers mission is.  Christian Klepp  00:39 And I’m gonna say Mr. Layton Cox, welcome to the show, sir.  Layton Cox  00:47 Thanks for having me.  Christian Klepp  00:48 Great to have you on the show, Layton. I’m really looking forward to this conversation, because, you know, clearly we’re gonna talk about a topic that you specialize in. You’re clearly very passionate about it, but I also think it’s very for lack of a better word, pertinent, highly relevant, also for B2B marketers to be leveraging it. So we’re going to keep the audience in suspense a little while longer while I dive into the first set of questions. All right, so let’s go. You’re on a mission to leverage research methods to allow clients to identify, I’m going to say, advantageous strategies for their products, markets and functions. So for this conversation, let’s zero in on the topic of how B2B companies can leverage competitive and market intelligence to stand out in a competitive market. So I’m going to kick off this conversation with two questions, and I’m happy to repeat them. So the first one is, what is it about CI (Competitive Intelligence) and MI (Market Intelligence) so competitive and market intelligence that you wish more B2B companies understood first question. And second question is, where do you see most marketing teams struggle when it comes to competitive and market intelligence? Layton Cox  01:59 It’s great set of questions there, and they kind of go hand in hand. And so before we completely dive in the let’s make the baseline of what is CI and what is MI. And so we have this conversation a lot, what we find out is they say, Oh yeah, we have competitor intelligence. I’ve looked at their website. We have market intelligence. I’ve Googled my industry. And of course, we’ve been in this industry for decades, or sometimes even centuries, for some of our clients, what we’re here to really, kind of emphasize we want to make sure that people understand is that competitive intelligence and market research, just in general, aren’t tactical research activities. The goal of both of these is to give you a very good understanding of where you play, who else is playing in that environment with you, and then what really you need to do in order to win against those competitive players, when it’s all said and done, to do that, you have to be able to one have kind of a centralized language inside your own organization and A framework in order to access some of those more tactical research pieces that you have already done, and on the point of the research side, you also have to make sure that you’re not relying just on secondary data.  Layton Cox  03:13 AI is fantastic. Syndicated reports are fantastic. We often, however, see especially marketing teams say, I paid Nielsen, or I paid Kantar, or I paid a very large consumer study. And I have this one report from 2022 that told me this, this and this. And we’ve made every decision since then based off of that. And then, if I need any updates, I asked ChatGPT or Copilot, to say, Hey, this is what this report used to say. What do you think it would say now and then? ChatGPT tells me the answer. What we’re finding is that they’re struggling to get kind of net new primary information. And when I say primary information, having conversations with people, talking to competitors, if your ethics, single appliance team will allow you to most will talking to sales partners, if you have retail partners, if you have VARs (Value-Added Resellers), anything like that, of kind of what are their experience? Boots on the ground and, of course, talking to customers themselves, trying to actually get information directly from them. And it’s more than a single conversation. It’s usually 10 to 12 kind of conversations. You have to talk to multiple sources triangulate what’s really going on in your market, like I said, so you can kind of build out that robust understanding of where you play, who you’re competing. You wins then, then how do you beat them? Christian Klepp  04:31 Yeah, definitely. And that’s a those are some really, really great insights. And I’m glad you brought up the topic of AI (Artificial Intelligence), because that was kind of like one of these follow up questions I had for you, like, you’ve probably heard this or seen this more times than you care to count, but you know, everyone’s talking about like, oh, maybe we can offload some of this, like, this resource or this, this bandwidth that we’ve previously allocated for research, because now we have AI right? So we don’t have to worry about that any more. And to your point, like, you know, we’ve got this report from Nielsen, and we just feed it into ChatGPT, and it’ll get updated. So I guess my question there is, maybe it’s two pronged question, I would say, your take on how AI is helpful for CI and MI, and your take on where it’s more of an impediment. Layton Cox  05:27 And it’s a hot topic even inside the industry, and so I’m obviously on the service provider side, and it’s a hot topic on our industry, and we do our own CI and MI well. So this is something that we’re researching ourselves, and what we’re finding is that AI is fantastic at evaluating, summarizing large data sets, as long as it knows kind of what you’re trying to do and it has done something like that in the past, or someone somewhere else has trained it to do something very similar. What that usually means is, if you want to ask it some generic information or train it on some internal data that only your team has access to. It can be an extremely powerful tool. We see a lot of it right now kind of popping up in the win loss space. And so as clients are talking to either churned customers or lost deals or one customers, and saying, kind of, what is it about the sales process or about the product that really kind of made you buy or made you not buy, being able to train an AI agent on that to kind of do some post sale surveys that’s controlled by the AI and allows you to get integrated into it that’s a small enough niche, enough kind of focus for AI to be able to really pull off, usually by itself, with just a few kind of customized agents, and the data usually comes back in a relatively systemized way. Price is obviously one of the things almost everybody brings up every time product features capabilities, you’ll get reference to certain competitor names that reoccur over and over again, and AI can pull those insights out. And so broadly, AI is good when you can train it in a specific data set to do a specific process that you’re really looking to kind of repeat over and over and over again. And you already know what good looks like.  Layton Cox  07:09 Where AI is not good is really when it comes down to more creative and strategic thoughts, and so when it’s not focused on a very tactical set of expectations, when it’s not using a set amount of data when you’re saying, Hey, I don’t know what this looks like yet. We’re entering a new market. We’re launching a new product. We have a new competitor that’s popped up, and we have no idea what they do or don’t do, or what their products look like, or where their use ca