Copywriters Podcast

So a lot of people are building their brand by pouring tons of money into traffic… A/B testing… tracking every click… but deep down, you feel that something’s not landing. It’s almost like you wonder if you’re coming across as desperate, rather than confident. Maybe it’s time to take a look at a cherished assumption in online marketing: Namely, that more information and more volume equals more authority. Not really, says our own Nathan Fraser. He’s given me an advance peek at his new book, The Signal. I was so excited by the refreshing ideas he has in there that I wanted him to talk about it on today’s show… and he agreed. Look. Nathan says you should stop begging the algorithm and start commanding attention. And he has some proven ideas on how to do that. Which he’ll share with us today. Here are the questions I asked him: 1. In your book, you say, “Marketing that begs for attention becomes noise. Marketing grounded in conviction becomes signal.” What do you mean by this, and how can someone make sure their marketing has minimum noise and maximum signal? 2. You talk about the Pratfall Effect and how not coming across as “perfect,” or trying to, actually bonds a business with its customers better than trying to appear cool and flawless. How does this work? 3. I love what you say about overexplaining–that it indicates insecurity and this repels rather than attracts the right people. Could you talk about that? 4. So there are two philosophies I’ve seen these days: Omnipresence, where you show up everywhere all the time, and being very selective and making it difficult to get access to you. You’re in favor of the second approach. Why do you feel that way? 5. Your advice for building an attractive signal that draws the right customers to you is to “select, not sell.” What does this look like? 6. You identify five buyer beliefs in a very interesting chapter called “Belief is the Real Funnel.” This is so different from what anyone else I have heard says. I notice that in the five-step funnel you outline, Apple somehow got the first belief to become part of the popular culture. Could you go through these beliefs and make some suggestions about how to create them in an actual funnel? 7. You write "Identity closes deals long before logic ever enters the room." How do you determine how your product changes your prospect’s sense of identity? Get your copy of The Signal at https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0G5FGMH21 Visit Nathan's site at CultishContent.comDownload.

What was discovered and perfected over 100 years ago, that is one of the most important marketing strategies online today? We have a special Old Masters Series show today. It’s a hybrid between marketing discoveries of the early 1900s, and top moneymakers of 2025. Our old Master is Claude Hopkins. Most people don’t realize that there’s a strong connection between two of the most important principles he wrote about and used – sampling, and demonstration – and what makes for an effective lead magnet in today’s world. For this episode, I went back into two of his most important books, Scientific Advertising and My Life in Advertising. We’ll talk about those first. There are tons of gems in there and these books are well worth reading many times, which I have done myself. So we’re going to focus on a narrow slice of the wisdom on today’s hybrid Old Masters Series show. And then, we’ll catapult into 2025 to see how those ideas have evolved. My Life in Advertising/Scientific Advertising, by Claude Hopkins https://www.amazon.com/dp/0844231010/ Sample Lead Magnet: First Two Chapters Of The Persuasion Story Code https://PersuasionStoryCode.com Download.

Our returning champion today, Dr. Doug Pew, is well known in two different worlds: The world of high-powered copywriting for online course creators, where he has done many six and seven figure launches. And the other world where Doug is known is that of music. He is a composer whose work was actually performed at Carnegie Hall! And he wrote an opera that was performed at the Kennedy Center. Those worlds overlap in certain ways sometimes for Doug, and that’s what we’re going to talk about today. He’s written copy for music businesses like Creative Piano Academy, Lauren Bateman Guitar, Become A Bassist, and J209, an a cappella singing group, who he helped grow their Instagram following to over 15,000 in a couple of months. Most of his work for these businesses has been to create sales, and, as you might expect, selling students into an online music instruction business is different in some ways than other types of copywriting. Yet the differences are fascinating, and they may help you with your own copy, even in non-musical niches. Contact Information: Doug’s Copywriter website is where you can book a call about a copy project: www.dougpewcopywriting.com or can email him directly at doug@dougpewcopywriting.com If you want to check out the music business, you can visit… https://latterdaymusiversity.com/ Download.

Do you have an imaginary friend? Whether you do or not, today we’re going to talk about why a particular imaginary friend can solve one of the biggest problems copywriters are having today. And that problem is, your copy’s not connecting with the right target group of prospects. So your conversions are way lower than you’d like them to be. Now, the perfect solution to that would be to have a real-live focus group of honest, unflinching prospects available to you 24/7. People you could ask about their problems, their fears, their hopes, their dreams. But… sorry. You can’t. However, what we’re going to talk about today is the next best thing. And the good news is, you can build this imaginary friend pretty easily from real-world data. So you get the equivalent of your 24/7 focus group, but it’s not high-maintenance. In fact, it doesn’t require any care and feeding at all. Download.

Ever spend hours, just waiting for the “perfect time” to start writing? Maybe first you decide to do a guided visualization. Or answer a few emails. Could be that there’s that perfect song that always gets your juices flowing… or a motivational youtube video you love… Well… Here’s a tip: Don’t wait and don’t find an excuse to do something else. Just start. I know it sounds crazy. Maybe impossible. But here’s the thing: When you’re not writing, it almost never “feels like” the right time to start writing. And, as it turns out, it’s nearly always better to write something bad than to write nothing at all. As the great Gary Halbert said, “Motion is better than meditation.” That is what we’ll talk about today. Download.

What if you found you were sitting on tons of money that you didn’t even know about? It sounds like the beginning of a new Netflix series, right? But this happened in real life to our returning champion, Agency owner and entrepreneur Cath Rehorn. She will be the first to admit that numbers are not her. She’s a words and people person, not a data ninja. But she developed a conversation with ChatGPT to get it to review her Stripe data, even though, as she also admits, at first she really didn’t have any idea what she was doing. And she realized that with minimum effort–like, mainly, sending out a few emails–she could add 54,000 British pounds, or about $70,000 US, to her revenues every year. And with only a little more effort, she reckoned, she could bring in even more. Her thought process and how she tackled a clumsy problem with such persistence and humor should be of interest, and possibly very valuable, to anyone who runs a business and even does a pretty bad job of keeping track of their numbers. You probably remember Cath because her podcast, titled Selling Them With Kindness, got a lot of engagement and some really heartfelt comments from listeners. Cath’s business is called Kind Copy. She lives in Wales in the UK. She has a true family business, since it employs herself, her husband, her sister and 2 other team members. Article about how Cath used ChatGPT: https://catherinereohorn.substack.com/p/i-got-more-clarity-on-my-business?r=1xjc2 Cath’s website: https://kindcopy.co.uk/ Cath’s social media links: https://x.com/kindcopy https://www.instagram.com/kindcopyuk/ Download.

Our very special guest today is Angus Fletcher, professor of story science at Ohio State’s Project Narrative. His research has been called “life-changing” by Brené Brown and “mind blowing” by Malcolm Gladwell; has been endorsed by psychologists, neuroscientists, and doctors such as Martin Seligman and Antonio Damasio; and has been supported by institutions ranging from the National Science Foundation to the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences. In 2023, he was awarded the Commendation Medal by the U.S. Army for his “groundbreaking research” with U.S. Army Special Operations into primal intelligence. His latest book is called Primal Intelligence: You Are Smarter Than You Know. There are very few books or writers who have affected me as much as Angus and this book have. In the few weeks since I have read it, my coaching has changed. My thoughts about intuition, imagination and emotion have changed. I’ve watched close to 20 videos featuring Angus on youtube… and I don’t typically ever watch that many videos about one person. Dr. Fletcher says that as humans, we think in story, not in words or pictures. He has plenty of research and street cred to back this up. Hollywood studios consult with him regularly. In addition to everything else, he’s a screenwriter, and a very compelling author. I could go on and on but that wouldn’t leave much time for us to talk, would it? So I will start with something familiar, and soon you will discover how mind-blowingly different some of Angus’s groundbreaking ideas are. But first, the amazingly familiar part… Copy is powerful. You’re responsible for how you use what you hear on this podcast. Most of the time, common sense is all you need. But if you make extreme claims... and/or if you’re writing copy for offers in highly regulated industries like health, finance, and business opportunity... you may want to get a legal review after you write and before you start using your copy. My larger clients do this all the time. 1. A lot of people in the direct marketing community have felt boxed-in by the conventional wisdom that the only true kind of story is a hero’s journey. I believe you have a very different point of view about stories, that includes that anatomy of the brain. Could you tell us about it? 2. Let’s talk about primal intelligence. When I first found out about your book and before I read it, my guess about primal intelligence was, well, pretty primal. Lizard brain stuff. That is, the animal description that you either mate with something, or you kill it, or you eat it. You have a different and I think much more sophisticated and I would say much more useful definition of primal intelligence and it has to do with four qualities of thinking that have nothing to do with logic. Could you talk about that? 3. Our listeners are copywriters and business owners who use direct response copy in their businesses. Pragmatic creativity is high on the list of capabilities people always want to increase. Could you share your thoughts on what creativity is, from the point of view of primal intelligence? And how to increase our abilities to be creative? 4. In your book there’s a surprisingly long list of people, including politicians, scientists and even a famous classical composer, as well as writers, who have mentioned Shakespeare as a major influence in their lives. What is it about Shakespeare’s work that is so valuable to all these people? 5. Can you give us some more tips about using stories in our content and advertising that will capture people’s attention and help us with our businesses? 6. Tell us about your work with Army special operators? 7. Would you like to give us a preview of the book Primal Intelligence? Links: Primal Intelligence https://www.amazon.com/Primal-Intelligence-Smarter-Than-Know/dp/0593715306 Angus’s LinkedIn Address https://www.linkedin.com/in/angus-fletcher-99713617/ Download.

A lot of people struggle with email marketing. Today’s special guest, Tom Ruwitch, has been at it for a quarter of a century… and he’s discovered some pretty interesting things about using stories to sell, as well. In 2001, Tom founded an email marketing business called MarketVolt. This was very early in the online business revolution. His company licensed their software to businesses worldwide, and used it themselves as part of a full-service agency. He sold the business in 2019. In 2021, Tom launched Implementum, a marketing platform that creates strategy, done-for-you custom campaigns, and provides training. We’ll talk about that, but first we’re going to talk about his impressive and very useful new book, Story Power Marketing. His simple and practical approach puts storytelling in marketing within the reach of just about anyone, whether you consider yourself a storyteller or not. Links: Story Power Marketing: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1964046335 Get a free copy at https://yourgiftfromtom.com/david Tom’s Website: https://storypowermarketing.com/ Download.

As we record this in mid-October, the world has without a doubt gone absolutely bonkers over AI. People are making all kinds of extreme predictions: Some see a heaven on Earth in a future with AI, and others confidently predict unmitigated disaster. But how many of these people are talking from actual in-the-trenches experience? Who can take the long view based on what they’ve actually done and seen… and an informed view of what’s possible for the future? I personally know only one person who fills that bill, and he’s our returning champion. He’s Sam Woods, our very special guest today. Sam has been in the game for nine years, while most of us haven’t been there half as long. In fact, when it comes to AI and copywriting, I don’t know of anyone who’s been in it longer than Sam has. He got started with machine learning in 2016 and generative AI in 2019. He was a pioneer in prompt engineering for AI copywriting, and marketing. Sam has advised Fortune 1,000 companies and teams across the world, as well as advised and consulted with CEOs and other C-Suite executives. He describes himself as “a strategic AI architect who advises C-Suite leaders on turning artificial intelligence into their most powerful competitive advantage.” But more important to us, he’s a seasoned and successful expert using AI for writing copy that gets results. Who better than that to help us see the bigger picture? Sam’s website: https://samueljwoods.com/ Other resources: https://bionicbusiness.com https://www.copywriting.ai/ Download.

Our guest today does something I’ve been looking for in a guest on this podcast for a long time–he helps beginning copywriters get started and become success. Matthew Volkwyn is a coach, copywriter, marketer and entrepreneur. He doesn’t just talk the talk; he walks the walk. Matt has helped dozens of business coaches rapidly grow their own businesses with email marketing, a he’s built three six-figure businesses of his own. I invited Matt on after he had me as a guest on his podcast, and I found out he coaches beginning copywriters, which I don’t do myself, since my clients are more experienced copywriters and business owners who use copy. I suggested he come on and we have a nuts and bolts conversation about coaching copywriters, and he readily agreed. Matthew’s links: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/matthewjvolkwyn Copy Systems: https://www.skool.com/copysystems/about Copy Dojo: https://www.copydojo.com/ Download.

Have you ever been in a meeting where people are brainstorming ideas, and each idea is more idiotic and off-target than the last one? It has happened to all of us. And if you’re an experienced copywriter, sometimes it’s hard to bite your tongue. Because the cheerful but inexperienced leader of the meeting has announced a rule: “There are no bad ideas!” Well, yes there are. In that meeting, you just heard a whole pile of them. I can almost guarantee what the problem was. There are several steps, including a crucial step, that everyone in the meeting never took. Falling in love with uninformed, aimless creativity is one of the biggest causes of wasted advertising dollars imaginable. And I’m going to tell you that missing piece, that missing step. I can’t promise that everyone in the next meeting will take it ahead of time. But if they do, I promise you’ll get much better ideas, even if you’re the only copywriter there. Books: Applied Imagination, by Alex Osborn https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009CXTZ84/ Advertising Headlines That Make You Rich, by David Garfinkel https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00513MQ2G Download.

Legendary NY Yankee Yogi Berra said it best: “It’s tough to make predictions, especially about the future.” He’s right, you know. But there’s one important exception, and I don’t blame Yogi because, as talented a player and a coach as he was, Yogi wasn’t a copywriter. So he didn’t know about the important exception we’ll talk about today: showing your prospect a compelling future. Not every copywriter does this, but if you don’t, you’re missing out… on conversions. And even if you do, we’re going to talk about a better way to show a compelling future than most people are currently using. If you like the stories on today’s show and you’d like to find out about a lot more, that will really power up your copy, let me invite you to check out my book The Persuasion Story Code. It’s on Amazon and we’ll put a link in the show notes. The Persuasion Story Code https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CFD2KXNQ Download.

A little over a month ago we did a last-minute podcast about an audacious experiment our special guest today, Nick O’Connor, did with Glenn Fisher and the financial publishing giant Marketwise: Glenn told us how they put together a special program called Financial Copy U, which would train 12 copywriters ABSOLUTELY FREE on how to write copy for financial publishers. With the understanding that some graduates might be offered full-fledged copywriting jobs on the spot, depending, of course, how they did in the training. Now that Financial Copy U is in full swing, we asked Nick to tell us more about what he and Glenn did and are doing right now. Seeing as there’s not enough other solid training for financial copywriting going on right now, at least that I know of, I realize Nick has a lot of valuable information for us. Among his many impressive accomplishments, Nick was Head of Copy and Publisher for Agora’s financial imprint in the UK, Southbank Investment Research. Today, as well as co-founding The Fix, he writes freelance for financial publishers in the UK, US and Australia and consults with Agora companies around the world. Nick told us about the origin of Financial Copy U, why he, Glenn and Marketwise decided to do it, the difference between winning applications to the program and those that didn’t make it, and a lot more. Great information about financial copywriting and copywriting in general! For more info about the program: https://www.financialcopyu.com Download.

It’s the sure-fire strategy that makes you overconfident. It looks like this: The copy’s loud. Aggressive. Alpha-male on a double dose of adderall. It’s practically SCREAMING at you to buy. And you know what? Sometimes it works. But not most of the time. Especially these days. Hyper-aggressive copy is just a huge risk you don’t want to take. And here’s why: While it’s true that pressure might trigger an action, it almost never creates belief. And belief is what you need to MAKE the sale… and KEEP the sale. My co-host Nathan is going to lead us out of the land of testosterone intoxication and into an exciting new world, of calmly and irreversibly creating BELIEF in your copy… so pressure isn’t necessary. Because when they believe… they buy. Find out more about Nathan's approach at https://cultishcontent.com/ Download.

Today we take a deep dive into the part of copywriting that people talk about all the time. And even though people talk about this all the time, most of them don’t really understand it. That is, psychology. Not the kind of psychology you experience in a therapist’s office—although there’s a little bit of overlap. Not what you’ll find in brightly colored grid of buyer personas. Not mindset. No, we’re talking about the psychology that has to do with how people really behave. What actually makes them respond. This is the kind of psychology that proves out over and over again, through unforgiving tests in the marketplace. We’ll call it “copywriting psychology.” It’s the psychology behind copy that converts. And here’s the thing: It’s not always polite. It may not even be pleasant. And sometimes, it’s offensive to the way people look at the world. But copywriting psychology is not trying to win a popularity contest. Instead, it’s trying to answer a very serious, and sometimes uncomfortable, question. That is: Does it convert? Remember, we’re talking about persuasion in the wild here. After all, when they’re looking at your copy, your prospects aren’t really sitting in a focus group, ponderously exploring their feelings and trying to express them so as to look good in front of others. Here’s what your prospects are really doing: They’re scrolling through emails… half-watching TikTok videos… and trying to remember where they left their debit card. Copywriting psychology doesn’t rely on a theory or a particular set of beliefs. It relies on observed and measured behavior. Therefore, to get really good at this, you learn not to listen so much to what people say… but to pay very close attention to what they do. When I mentor clients, a large part of what we do ends up coming from developing an almost sixth sense for copywriting psychology. What we’ll do here today is a crash course to help you move to the next level in this important set of copywriting tools. So, a couple of resources for you if you really want to get copywriting psychology under your belt. If you are a working copywriter with at least two years’ experience and in the six figure level of income, you should consider applying for mentoring with me. I don’t work with beginners, but if you have a successful business and you write copy, or you have a strong freelance copywriting business, check out my mentoring. It’s a serious one-year program and it can easily take you to the next level. It’s expensive, but clients find again and again that it more than pays for itself. In fact, some of them, who run 9 figure businesses, have stayed with me for years. And some freelance copywriters have as well. Now, what we talked about today is just a small part of the copywriting psychology we cover during the year, because most of it comes up when we go over projects and promotions you’re actively working on. You can find out more, including the application, at https://garfinkelcoaching.com The second resource is for everyone and I can’t recommend it highly enough, even though I wrote it. This week I got two messages from clients who were bragging they got someone else to get the book. Why? Because the information in it can really make a big difference in your copy and in your business. And I haven’t seen the same information anywhere else. Of course I’m talking about The Persuasion Story Code. It’s on Amazon and here’s the link: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CFD2KXNQ Download.

Sometimes copy fails because it’s just not executed well enough. And also, copy that simply misses the mark — doesn’t align with the target prospects and what’s on their minds — won’t do well either. But you can have all the fundamentals in place and done well, and sales can still fail to happen. Why? That would be because the strategy behind the copy was weak or even non-existent. Today, we’re talking about a blind spot that kills a lot of otherwise good copy—and how our special guest today, Jamie Thompson, coaches copywriters how to see what others miss entirely. That would be, of course, strategy and strategic thinking. Jamie’s a seasoned pro. Headquartered in Edinburgh, Scotland, he’s been writing copy for 10 years and counts among his clients such giants as Amazon, USAID, and Lenovo. But he’s had many other clients—over 500 in all. And lately he’s made it his mission to teach copywriters how to think like strategists. 80% of Jamie’s clients come back for return engagements. So you’ll definitely want to know some of what he knows. Follow up with Jamie: Free course, Think Like A Strategic Copywriter: https://brandnewcopy.com/free-copywriting-course/ Contact: jamiethomson@brandnewcopy.com Download.

Three weeks ago, we had a very special Old Masters Series show: The Art of War, Copywriting Edition. But we only covered half the book, so that made the previous episode Part 1. Today we cover the rest of the book, Chapters 7 through 13. And that makes today Part 2. Here’s what you need to know: The Art of War was written by Sun Tzu (SOOON-tzeh) about 2500 years ago, as a treatise on military strategy. The Art of War reaches far beyond military warfare, however. Business overachievers like Elon Musk and Mark Benioff, founder of salesforce, are among many who have praised this book. That’s because the principles in this book are universal and very powerful in any situation where you’re in a struggle–and getting people to buy from the written word certainly counts as a struggle. Today you'll see exactly how Sun Tzu's principles, when applied to copy, can help you sharpen your copy, position your offers better, and persuade prospects more naturally. I’ve gotta tell you, I was surprised when I was preparing this how easily his principles can be applied to copy. Now, there’s a reason The Art of War has lasted for more than two thousand years. It’s not just because people like reading about swords and spears. It’s because the way Sun Tzu thought about winning applies anywhere there’s competition — whether it’s two armies on a field, two companies in a market… or you, sitting at a keyboard, trying to out-sell the other guy. When you’re writing copy, you’re not just “putting words together.” You’re maneuvering. Positioning. Adapting. Watching for the right moment to strike. If you’ve ever had a great piece of copy flop… or a headline you loved get ignored… or a competitor suddenly steal your customers… …you’ve felt the same frustration a general feels when the plan falls apart halfway through the battle. Sun Tzu didn’t leave that to chance. He studied how to win before the fight began — and how to keep control until the very last move. Today, we’re going to tap into the last seven chapters of his book. These are the chapters about keeping your opponent guessing… matching your tactics to the exact ground you’re on… knowing when to press hard and when to pull back… and gathering the kind of intelligence that lets you win before the other side knows what happened. Download.

In the 1980s, before Internet marketing had even really begun, our very special guest today and returning champion was working as a tech writer in the foreign exchange trading department of Bankers Trust in New York. In his new book “How The Web Won,The Inside Story of How a Motley Crew of Outsiders Hijacked the Information Superhighway and Struck a Blow for Human Freedom,” Ken McCarthy writes: “Working with foreign exchange traders taught me an important lesson about the need for speed in business: Windows of opportunity open and close fast. That understanding, combined with my ‘discovery’ of the rudiments of direct marketing, has been worth millions to me and a whole lot more to my clients.” That’s one of the many powerful lessons from Ken’s new book, “How The Web Won.” He’s been around Internet marketing longer than anyone else I know–and possibly longer than anyone, period. In 1994, he sponsored the first conference about the business potential of the World Wide Web. With keynote speaker Marc Andreeson, at the time, the 23-year old co-founder of Netscape, an early Internet browser and the first important one. Time magazine pointed out that Ken was the first person to identify the importance and business power of the click-through rate, which today, of course, is the basis of the roughly half-a-trillion-dollars a year Facebook and Google make selling pay per click advertising. In 2002, Ken started an event called The System Seminar, which I attended a few years later myself. Met Frank Kern, Gary Halbert, Harlan Kilstein, and a whole bunch of other people who were, or became, legends in direct marketing. We could spend the rest of the show talking about all of Ken’s accomplishments, but I’d rather he tell you about his book, “How The Web Won.” So Ken, welcome, and congrats on your new book! 1. So in 1993, you attended a conference called One BBS CON. I’m not sure from your book if that was the moment that changed your life, since you’d been doing some pretty good pulling rabbits out of hats with direct marketing before then. But could you talk about if that was an inflection point and how what you learned at that conference influenced you going forward? 2. Could you talk about being invited to Dan Kennedy’s conference in 1993? I can’t imagine a lot of the hard core direct marketers who paid $5000 to be there were all that receptive at that time to what you had to say. Were they? 3. Until 1989, it was forbidden by the U.S. government to use the Internet for commercial purposes. How fast did that change in the 90s, and what were the key moments for that? How did your San Francisco conference fit into all of that? 4. When did Internet marketing as we know it today really start to get traction? 5. What would you say was the big mistake made by many of the companies that went bankrupt in the dot-bomb of 2000 – and how long did it take for the direct marketing way of thinking take to catch on? 6. What prompted you to launchThe System seminar in 2002? 7. Any other key moments between the early days and today, that you’d like to talk about? Ken’s book, How The Web Won https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DM2GN91Q HowtheWebWon.com Get in touch with Ken at: https://kenmccarthy.com Download.

$6.7 million. That’s how much mega financial publisher Marketwise paid out to copywriters in royalties in 2024. And now they’re making an offer so good we had to rush today’s special guest, top copywriter and best-selling author Glenn Fisher, on the show to tell you about it. The offer is simple, yet overwhelming: FREE training from Marketwise to 12 lucky copywriters… and one of them will be offered a chance to write copy for this publishing giant. Glenn will tell you all about the training in just a few minutes, but let me tell you first about Glenn: He knows the value of training himself, because he trained with legends Bill Bonner and Mark Ford at Agora. He then went on to run one of the Agora businesses in the UK. He wrote Amazon best-seller The Art of the Click, which was also translated into Chinese and Korean. And, he co-created Financial Copy U with Nick O’Connor and Marketwise, where they will be mentoring 12 writers over 12 weeks, for free, starting in early September. So if you want to put your name in the hat, today would be a good day. Links: Financial Copy U: financialcopyu.com The Fix, Glenn’s and Nick’s other program: thefixcopywriting.com Download.

Most copywriters know the classics of our field—but today we’re drawing from a master whose work predates modern advertising by more than two millennia. In this episode of Copywriters Podcast, we’re unpacking Sun Tzu’s The Art of War—a book written over 2,500 years ago, yet still shaping strategy for business titans like Elon Musk and Marc Benioff. While it was originally written as a guide to military conquest, The Art of War has long been praised for its universal principles of strategy and persuasion. The battlefield may have been different, but the parallels to winning in business—and especially in copywriting—are undeniable. In this episode, we’ll show you how to translate Sun Tzu’s wisdom into practical tactics for the written word. You’ll discover how ancient principles of planning, positioning, and persuasion can sharpen your copy, strengthen your offers, and give you the edge in today’s competitive marketplace. What’s surprising is how naturally these lessons map to the challenges copywriters face every day. From anticipating objections, to winning quickly before attention fades, to making your offer feel like the natural choice—Sun Tzu laid out the playbook centuries before advertising even existed. This is part one of a two-part series, covering the first six chapters of The Art of War. If you’ve ever felt like writing copy is a battle for attention and trust, this episode will give you a fresh perspective—and some timeless strategies—to help you win more often.Download.