The Shape of Dialogue

Trans: Fact or Fiction? with Helen Joyce - The Shape of Dialogue #44Helen Joyce, campaigner for women's rights from Sex Matters, talks about our ancient common knowledge of the difference between men and a women, and the three recent seismic events pushing back against trans-ideology and its harm to women's rights and children - The UK Cass Report in April 2024The United States President’s EXECUTIVE ORDER 14168 - Defending Women From Gender Ideology Extremism and Restoring Biological Truth to the Federal Government - January 2025The For Women Scotland UK Supreme Court ruling in April 2025Helen Joyce https://www.thehelenjoyce.com/https://www.thehelenjoyce.com/p/about-meTrans: When Ideology Meets Reality - https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/0861540492?ref_=mr_referred_us_au_auMusic: Bach B Minor Mass Performed byThe Monteverdi ChoirThe English Baroque SoloistsJohn Eliot Gardiner https://music.apple.com/nz/album/j-s-bach-mass-in-b-minor-bwv-232/1053521016

https://www.hpluckrose.com/Helen Pluckrose is a British liberal humanist writer and social commentator. She is the co-author with James Lindsay of Cynical Theories, Social (In)justice, as well as her own book, The Counterweight Handbook, about Principled Strategies for Surviving and Defeating Critical Social Justice at Work, in Schools, and Beyond. At university, Helen studied late medieval women's religious writing. Her work now focuses on critiques of postmodernist philosophies, Critical Social Justice scholarship and activism and their negative effects on the humanities and the political left. With James Lindsay and Peter Boghossian, Helen was instrumental in the now famous "Grievance Studies Affair" which exposed the dubious scholarship in academic fields captured by Postmodernism, critical theory and identity politics. They succeeded in publishing a number of fake, hoax papers in academic journals. The project was inspired by Alan Sokal's 1996 hoax paper he published in the academic journal, Social Text.From 2018 to 2021, Helen was the editor-in-chief of Areo, an online magazine focusing on politics, culture, science and art. You can read her current writings on her Substack called The Overflowings of a Liberal Brain - https://substack.com/@helenpluckroseHelen's books - https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08GSPKP4MHelen's Quillette articles - https://quillette.com/author/helen-pluckrose/Music: Bach B Minor Mass Performed byThe Monteverdi ChoirThe English Baroque SoloistsJohn Eliot Gardiner https://music.apple.com/nz/album/j-s-bach-mass-in-b-minor-bwv-232/1053521016

https://www.daviddeutsch.org.uk/David Deutsch is a renowned University of Oxford physicist, philosopher, and the "father" of quantum computation. He is a Fellow of the Royal Society, and his work includes fundamental issues in physics, particularly the quantum theory of computation and information, and the new field of constructor theory. In 1985, he proposed a universal quantum computer and went on to make some of the most significant advances in the field, including the discovery of the first quantum algorithms.He is renowned for his theoretical advances, including the theory of quantum logic gates and quantum computational networks, as well as several fundamental quantum universality results. His work set the agenda for subsequent international research efforts in quantum computation.David was awarded the Paul Dirac Prize and Medal by the Institute of Physics in 1998 and he won the Edge of Computation Science Prize in 2005. His books are highly influential. The Fabric of Reality explores the synthesis of ideas uniting Quantum Theory, and the theories of Computation, Knowledge and Evolution. The Beginning of Infinity: Explanations That Transform the World argues that explanations have a fundamental place in the universe and that improving them is the basic regulating principle of all successful human endeavour. He has published many articles and research papers and has presented three TED talks.The Beginning of Infinity: Explanations That Transform the Worldhttps://www.amazon.com.au/dp/0143121359?ref_=mr_referred_us_au_auThe Fabric of Reality: Towards a Theory of Everythinghttps://www.amazon.com.au/Fabric-Reality-Towards-Everything-Penguin-ebook/dp/B004YB9HVY?ref_=ast_author_dpMusic: Bach B Minor Mass Performed byThe Monteverdi ChoirThe English Baroque SoloistsJohn Eliot Gardiner https://music.apple.com/nz/album/j-s-bach-mass-in-b-minor-bwv-232/1053521016

Douglas Mark Elliffe is a New Zealand academic and Professor of Psychology at the University of Auckland, where he has been affiliated since 1979 as a student and later as faculty. He completed his PhD in Psychology at the university, with a thesis titled "Multiple-schedule performance in closed economies," and joined the academic staff in 1992 to help establish the Psychology programme at the Tāmaki campus. Elliffe's research specialises in the experimental analysis of behaviour, focusing on learning and choice in animals and humans, with a particular interest in reconceptualising reinforcement as a signal guiding future behaviour rather than merely strengthening past actions. He has authored over 84 publications, garnering more than 2,000 citations. Throughout his career, he has held key leadership roles, including Head of the School of Psychology from 2010 to 2013 and Deputy Dean of Science since 2016. In 2021, Elliffe co-authored the now-famous Listener Letter, "In Defence of Science", which argued that Māori indigenous knowledge, while valuable, is not equivalent to science. Professor Elliffe decided to resign from the acting dean position amid the backlash within his department to the "In Defence of Science" letter.Climbing Mount Improbable by Richard Dawkinshttps://www.richarddawkins.com/books/book/climbing-mount-improbable-https://the-shape-of-dialogue.captivate.fmThanks to Guy Quartermain for the videography - https://www.keyframe.co.nz/Music: Bach B Minor Mass Performed byThe Monteverdi ChoirThe English Baroque SoloistsJohn Eliot Gardiner https://music.apple.com/nz/album/j-s-bach-mass-in-b-minor-bwv-232/1053521016

About Travis Brown https://www.thesignalproductions.com/aboutUncomfortable Truths:  The Reality of Gender Identity Ideology https://www.thesignalproductions.com/The Woke Reformation is a documentary series that chronicles the origins of Woke ideology, helps people understand it and gives advice on how to push back. https://www.wokereformation.com/What Killed Michael Brown?https://whatkilledmichaelbrown.com/https://vimeo.com/ondemand/whatkilledmichaelbrown?utm_medium=vod&utm_source=hpReconciling Results on Racial Differences in Police Shootings By Roland G. Fryer, Jrhttps://scholar.harvard.edu/files/fryer/files/fryer_police_aer.pdfSurprising New Evidence Shows Bias in Police Use of Force but Not in Shootingshttps://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/upshot/surprising-new-evidence-shows-bias-in-police-use-of-force-but-not-in-shootings.html10,429 people have been shot and killed by police from 2015 to 2024https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/Number of people shot to death by the police in the United States from 2017 to 2024, by racehttps://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

Critical Race Theory expert Dr. James Lindsay outlines the genealogy of communism and its evolution into woke ideologies.About Dr. James LindsayAn American-born author, mathematician, and professional troublemaker, Dr. James Lindsay has written six books spanning a range of subjects including religion, the philosophy of science and postmodern theory. He is a leading expert on Critical Race Theory, which leads him to reject it completely. He is the founder of New Discourses and is currently promoting his new book "Cynical Theories: How Activist Scholarship Made Everything about Race, Gender, and Identity―and Why This Harms Everybody", currently being translated into more than fifteen languages.https://newdiscourses.com/author/jameslindsay/Music: Johann Sebastian Bach: Mass in B Minor Performed by The Monteverdi ChoirThe English Baroque Soloists John Eliot Gardiner https://music.apple.com/nz/album/j-s-bach-mass-in-b-minor-bwv-232/1053521016

Professor Elizabeth Rata is a sociologist of education in the School of Critical Studies, Faculty of Education and Social Work at the University of Auckland where she is Director of the Knowledge in Education Research Unit (KERU). Her main research areas are in knowledge in the curriculum, knowledge politics, ethnic revivalism, Māori education, research methods, and the history of New Zealand education.https://elizabethrata.com/bio/https://profiles.auckland.ac.nz/e-ratahttps://the-shape-of-dialogue.captivate.fmThanks to Guy Quartermain for cinematography and editing this podcast - https://www.keyframe.co.nz/Music: Bach B Minor Mass Performed byThe Monteverdi ChoirThe English Baroque SoloistsJohn Eliot Gardiner https://music.apple.com/nz/album/j-s-bach-mass-in-b-minor-bwv-232/1053521016

About Kendall Clementshttps://profiles.auckland.ac.nz/k-clementsMātauranga Māori Mātauranga Māori with Charles Royal - The Shape of Dialogue Podcast #15For more on Science & Mātauranga Māori see the following playlist Science & Mātauranga Māori Playlist

https://peterboghossian.comhttps://linktr.ee/peterboghossianBruce Gilley - https://www.nas.org/authors/bruce_gilley

Dr Melissa Derby is a Senior Lecturer teaching early literacy and human development at the University of Waikato's Tauranga campus and online. Melissa completed her PhD at the University of Canterbury, and her study was part of A Better Start National Science Challenge. Her primary area of research is early literacy, and in particular, in exploring the role of whānau in fostering foundational preliteracy skills. More generally, she has an interest in Māori education and success. Melissa's scholarship has been recognised through a range of awards, including a Fulbright-Ngā Pae o te Māramatanga Graduate Award, a SAGE Young Writer's Award, a University of Waikato Early Career Research Award, and two research awards from the Royal Society of New Zealand. She is the Director of the Early Years Research Centre at the University of Waikato, and co-Editor of the New Zealand Association for Research in Education's blog, Ipu Kererū. Melissa is on the Editorial Board for the journal of the International Literacy Association, The Reading Teacher. In New Zealand, she sits on a number of advisory groups for education and literacy, including the cabinet-appointed Ministerial Advisory Group advising the Minister of Education. Melissa is on the Board of Trustees at Matua School in Tauranga, New Zealand and the Board of Directors for Inspired Kindergartens in Tauranga, New Zealand.https://profiles.waikato.ac.nz/melissa.derby

Jill Ovens is a New Zealand trade unionist, politician, and women's rights advocate. She is the founder, co-leader and National Secretary of the Women's Rights Party.Before founding the Women's Rights Party, Jill Ovens was co-leader of the Alliance Party.In 2006, she resigned from the Alliance party. After being elected the northern secretary of the Service & Food Workers Union, she joined the Labour Party. She was a former Auckland/Northland regional representative on the Labour Party's Council.In 2023, Ovens resigned from the Labour Party as women's rights and voices were being subjugated by trans ideology activists within the Labour Party's leadership. In response, she founded the Women's Rights Party to highlight the loss of women's rights due to men claiming to be women trumping the hard-won civil rights of women. https://womensrightsparty.nzhttps://x.com/WRP_NZA review of the protections in the Human Rights Act 1993 for people who are transgender, people who are non-binary and people with innate variations of sex characteristicshttps://www.lawcom.govt.nz/our-work/ia-tangata/Do women have rights? with Sall Grover - The Shape of Dialogue #316 https://youtu.be/o6TBckVgZLI?si=IQqbe6eR0W1FjfzS

Dr James Kierstead is a Research Fellow with the Initiative and his main focus will be on higher education policy, including academic freedom.James holds a BA in Classics from Oxford, an MA in Ancient History from the University of London, an MA in Political Science from Stanford, and a PhD in Classics from Stanford.He is also the co-host (with Michael Johnston) of Free Kiwis!, a podcast dedicated to free speech in a New Zealand context.X at @Kleisthenes2.https://www.youtube.com/@Cleisthenes2/videos

gigglecrowdfund.comSall's X handle - @salltweetsA male named Roxy Tickle, who identifies as a woman, has brought a human rights claim against Sall Grover for not permitting him to use her female-only networking app, Giggle. He initially filed the complaint last year, but withdrew, due to funding reasons. He has now filed again, way out of time and is claiming that by excluding him, Sall is discriminating against him on the basis of his gender identity, which is a protected attribute under the Sex Discrimination Act.However, Sall actually hasn’t discriminated against him on the basis of gender identity at all, but on the basis of his sex which is also a protected attribute under the Act and in relation to which differential treatment between men and women is not discriminatory where this is necessary to protect or achieve equality for women.Indeed the Sex Discrimination Act was enacted in 1984 primarily to give effect to the international Convention on the Elimination of Discrimination Against Women(CEDAW), by addressing discrimination and inequality women faced on the basis of sex, for example in relation to biological and reproductive capacities like pregnancy and family responsibilities, in employment, education, facilities and services, and so on.But then, Julia Gillard’s government made amendments to the Act in 2013, making it unlawful to discriminate against a person on the basis of gender identity. The new amendments also removed the biological definitions of man and woman, and so woman can now include a biological male who has a female gender identity. Sex, and women’s rights and protections on the basis of sex, therefore become meaningless, as does the original intention of the Act. This has left us with a clear conflict between the sex-based rights of women and the rights of those claiming a gender identity.Not only will this case be the first opportunity we’ve had to resolve this conflict and to test whether sex is still a protected attribute in Australia, but because the Sex Discrimination Act was created pursuant to constitutional powers to legislate regarding international laws, and there is arguably no basis for gender identity protections under international law and certainly not under the Convention the Act was originally meant to give effect to, there is an argument to be made that the current gender identity protections are unconstitutional.This is huge, because if laws that undermine sex-based rights, such as gender identity protections, are found to be unconstitutional or otherwise unlawful, this could render invalid laws in every state giving effect to protections for gender identity, as these are subsidiary to federal laws. As a result, the sex-based protections for women and girls would be re-instated when it comes to their rights to female-only spaces, services, sports and so on.SummaryIt is all a bit complicated, but essentially, there has been a conflict between anti-discrimination protections for sex and gender identity since the Sex Discrimination Act was amended in 2013. This case is the first opportunity we’ve had to resolve this conflict and to test whether sex is still a protected attribute in Australia. Parliament has arguably acted outside its constitutional powers in legislating gender identity as a protected characteristic in the Sex Discrimination Act which was designed to protect against sex discrimination, as protections for gender identity have no basis in CEDAW or other international instruments.Details of first hearingTickle asked for an extension of time to bring his case against Sall. Sall’s team have asked Tickle to prove that he has the funds to bring his case (competency issue).Tickle asked for a cost capping order, so that if he loses, there will be a cap on legal costs that he’ll be ordered to cover.First two issues will be dealt at next hearing on 28 April. Sall’s team have...

A discussion about liberty, free speech and threats to liberal societies with British journalist and founder of the Free Speech Union, Toby Young.http://www.tobyyoung.co.ukhttps://www.spectator.co.uk/writer/toby-young/https://x.com/toadmeisterhttps://freespeechunion.orghttps://dailysceptic.orgDoc Edge & The UnRedacted with Alex Lee - The Shape of Dialogue Podcast #18https://youtu.be/uC0IYi5oYaMMusic - Bach Mass in B Minor conducted by John Eliot Gardiner https://open.spotify.com/album/3HdmIB3Wzcd7bFDdsgaIbp?si=dRMNyRieTLCTHMJfSBZ7mA

https://peterboghossian.comhttps://linktr.ee/peterboghossianPhilosopher Dr. Peter Boghossian's main focus is bringing the tools of professional philosophers to people in a wide variety of contexts. Peter has a teaching pedigree spanning more than 25 years and 30 thousand students - in prisons, hospitals, public and private schools, seminaries, universities, Fortune 100 companies, and small businesses. His fundamental objective is to teach people how to think through what often seem to be intractable problems.Peter's primary research areas are critical thinking and moral reasoning. His doctoral research studies, funded by the State of Oregon and supported by the Oregon Department of Corrections, consisted of using the Socratic method to help prison inmates to increase their critical thinking and moral reasoning abilities and to increase their desistance to criminal behavior.AuthorPeter's publications can be found in The New York Times, Time Magazine, The Wall Street Journal, Areo, The American Mind, The Clearing House, Corrections Today, CounterPunch, Education Policy Analysis, Educational Philosophy and Theory, Essays in Philosophy, Federal Probation Journal, Free Inquiry, Informal Logic, Inside Higher Ed, Journal of Correctional Education, Journal of Philosophy of Education, The Los Angeles Times, Motherboard, Quillette, New Discourses, National Review, New Statesman, Offender Programs Report, The Philosophers’ Magazine, Philosophy's Future, The Radical Academy, Radical Pedagogy, Scientific American, Skeptic, Skeptical Inquirer, The Spectator, Teaching Philosophy, Truthout, and USA Today.ProfessionalPeter is currently a Founding Faculty Fellow at the University of Austin and the Director of National Progress Alliance. He was a Councilman for the State of Oregon (LSTA), the Chairperson of the Prison Advisory Committee for Columbia River Correctional Institution, wrote national philosophy curricula for the University of Phoenix, a research fellow for the National Center for Teaching and Learning, a full-time faculty member in the department of philosophy at Portland State University, an Affiliate Research Assistant Professor at Oregon Health Sciences University in the Department of General Internal Medicine, an advisor for Counterweight, a Senior Fellow at Hungary’s Mathias Corvinus Collegium, a national speaker for the Center for Inquiry and an international speaker for the Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science.Music - Bach Mass in B Minor conducted by John Eliot Gardiner https://open.spotify.com/album/3HdmIB3Wzcd7bFDdsgaIbp?si=dRMNyRieTLCTHMJfSBZ7mA

Michael Johnston https://www.nzinitiative.org.nz/about-us/our-people/dr-michael-johnston/Jonathan Ayling https://www.fsu.nz/meet_the_teamThe role of Universities in supporting freedom of speechThe discussion on the role of universities in supporting freedom of speech held at Te Herenga Waka — Victoria University of Wellington in May 2024. Watch the full event here.https://youtu.be/T3rZQ7PxuUI?si=Afw28b_dBJU77UTr

https://www.fsu.nzJonathan Ayling is Chief Executive of theFree Speech Union. Jonathan has worked in Wellington, the New Zealand capital, for 8 years across roles as a Beehive staffer, senior political advisor, and in the NGO sector. In addition to leading the work at the Free Speech Union, he and his wife own a vineyard in the Wairarapa.

https://www.jonathanrauch.comJonathan Rauch was brought to New Zealand by the Free Speech Union for a speaking tour in May 2025. See here for more information about the Free Speech Union - https://www.fsu.nzJonathan Rauch is a highly acclaimed American journalist and senior fellow at the Brookings Institution in Washington. He has written eight books, including the renowned Kindly Inquisitors, which defends free speech and robust criticism, even when it's racist, sexist and highly offensive. Jonathan writes for many of the world's leading publications, including the New York Times, The Atlantic and The Wall Street Journal, with articles on public policy, culture, and government. He has received many awards for his writing, including the National Magazine Award, the equivalent of the Pulitzer Prize.Jonathan Rauch's booksThe Constitution of Knowledge: A Defense of Truth - https://a.co/d/0Gi0pYIKindly Inquisitors: The New Attacks on Free Thought - https://a.co/d/2uZ25eMAll of his bookshttps://www.amazon.com/stores/Jonathan-Rauch/author/B001HOP3SC?ref=ap_rdr&isDramIntegrated=true&shoppingPortalEnabled=true

Helen Joyce is a journalist and was a staff writer for The Economist between 2005 and 2022. Helen held various leading positions at The Economist, including education editor, Brazil correspondent, International editor, Finance editor and Britain editor.Helen's first book, "Trans: When Ideology Meets Reality," was published by OneWorld in July 2021. It was reissued in 2023 under the new title "Trans: Gender Identity and the New Battle for Women's Rights.""Trans" was an immediate bestseller and was named by the Times, Spectator and Observer as one of their books of 2021. Helen now campaigns for women's rights and works with the start-up human-rights organisation Sex Matters, which campaigns for clarity about the two sexes, male and female, in law and in life.https://www.thehelenjoyce.com/https://www.thehelenjoyce.com/trans-news-and-reviews/https://www.amazon.com.au/TRANS-When-Ideology-Meets-Reality/dp/0861540492https://sex-matters.org/Music - Bach Mass in B Minor conducted by John Eliot Gardiner https://open.spotify.com/album/3HdmIB3Wzcd7bFDdsgaIbp?si=dRMNyRieTLCTHMJfSBZ7mA

Richard Dawkins - https://richarddawkins.com/In February 2023, Richard Dawkins asked me to host his New Zealand speaking tour. Today's podcast is the Auckland event, in which Richard discusses the scientific method, his recent book Flights of Fancy, and the debate surrounding the inclusion of non-scientific Māori mythological concepts in the New Zealand school science curriculum. Richard needs no introduction, but if anyone has been hiding under a rock for the last 50 years, here's a brief description of his contribution to the world. Richard Dawkins is a world-famous Oxford University evolutionary biologist. He has led an illustrious career as an influential scientist, author, public intellectual and, importantly, an ardent advocate for science. It's no exaggeration to say Richard is one of the greatest minds of our time, and through his many books and public engagement, has positively changed millions of lives. Richard is a prolific and highly influential author and one of the greatest writers of his generation. He has written 20 books, including The Selfish Gene, The Extended Phenotype, and the magic of reality.Throughout his career, Richard has been a strong critic of religion and views the existence of God as a falsifiable hypothesis. In The Blind Watchmaker, he debunks creationist claims that life is far too complicated not to have had an omniscient designer.