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The Ad Navseam podcast, where Classical gourmands everywhere can finally get their fill. Join hosts Dr. David Noe and Dr. Jeff Winkle for a lively discussion of Greco-Roman civilization stretching from the Minoans and Mycenaeans, through the Renaissance, and right down to the present.
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Back to Marrou, Part II Chapter X! This time it’s all about rhetoric (we’ll resist the temptation to go on and on). H. I. drops the bomb (boutade!) that in antiquity, rhetoric was the Queen of the Sciences, and Isocrates was a much more influential figure in terms of school training and life skills than Plato ever dared deam. Along the way, the guys break down the tension and attraction between rote preparation and improvisational skills, necessary hand gestures, and the pop phenomenon of funerary orations. Want to know how to send off your beloved in the proper, encomiastic fashion? Well, here’s the Rand McNally deluxe version to guide you toward your destination. And by the way, it’s never too early to think about what other names you’d have liked to have been known by. "Give me back a body and I will declaim again!"
And don't forget Aristotle: enter to win the brand-new collected works from Hackett Publishing, our generous sponsor. You can find it at this link.
This week Dave and Jeff wrap up their discussion of John Wenham's fascinating, scholarly tour de force on the synoptic Gospels. Dealing with chapters 8 to 12, the conversation focuses on further considerations for Mark's Gospel, Ancient Testimony to Luke's Gospel, and these three, essential and concluding points: 1. How were the Gospels written? 2. Jesus-Tradition Oral and Written 3. When Were the Gospels Written? The answers might surprise you, based on patristic evidence, internal evidence, Qumran scroll evidence from 1972 – shedding light on Mark 6:52ff. – and the remarkable attestation in II Corinthians 8.8, that Luke is the brother who is "praised by all the churches for his service to the gospel." Wenham makes a persuasive argument that this refers to the composition of the third synoptic, and thus we have these dates according to the traditional form: Matthew was written before 40 A.D., in Hebrew; Mark was written no later than 45 A.D. in Rome; and Luke was written as early as 55 A.D. You won't want to miss these exciting conclusions.
Also, be sure to check out our giveaway of the brand-new collected works of Aristotle by Hackett publishing, our sponsor. You can find it at this link.
This week Jeff and Dave continue their discussion of John Wenham's arguments against the hypothesis of Markan priority and the Q document as explaining the many similarities in the synoptic Gospels. Here they pick up with "external evidence" in chapter 5, after a concluding look at the internal evidence. Wenham argues in chapters 5 and following for the priority of Matthew, reestablishing the reliability of Papias and other church fathers like Irenaeus and Origen, in the overwhelming testimony that Matthew was first, and wrote Ἑβραΐδι διαλέκτῳ. Does this mean in a Semitic language like Hebrew or Aramaean – the traditional interpretation – or is the understanding commonly attributed to Eusebius correct, that Matthew wrote "in a Semitic style", but not necessarily in the Hebrew language? The arguments are complicated, and require very careful attention to sort the wheat from the chaff. Was Peter the inspiration for Mark's gospel? Was Peter in Rome, and if, so when? Come along for a careful look at a perennially interesting and pressing question, namely the relationship between the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, and Luke. Also, be sure to check out the giveaway of the brand-new collected works of Aristotle by Hackett publishing, our sponsor. You can find it at this link.
Listen up, polyglots and hyperpolyglots: this one is for you. And for the rest of us, ever wonder what it's like to speak multiple languages, or even more than 10? Jeff and Dave come gurgling back in with a quick take on this fascinating article by Natalia Mesa over at science.org (link). Meet Vaughn Smith who, when not cleaning carpets in Washington D.C. or preparing to turn 50, tries out one of the 24 (that's right) languages he speaks fluently. And when members of this 1% of the world's population, the super-accomplished in multiple languages, undergo an fMRI or two, it turns out there are some surprising effects as the Bible or Alice in Wonderland is read in their mother tongue. So put down Duolingo (Vigintilingo?) and tune in for a quick look at this most unusual topic. It's bite-sized fun!
This week the guys dive into John Wenham’s intriguing 1992 book Redating Matthew, Mark and Luke: A Fresh Assault on the Synoptic Problem. As they unpack the dense argument, see how Wenham challenges the generally accepted order of the synoptic gospel accounts (supposedly Mark and the mysterious “Q” come first) as well as the generally accepted “late” dates for each (beginning in the 60s-70s at the earliest). Using close comparative readings as well as placing the texts in a strict historical context, Wenham builds a case for the traditional, patristic chronological order of the gospels as well as dates much closer to the events of the life of Christ. So, get your pericopes in order and be prepared to rethink everything you thought you knew about “oral tradition.”
Has it finally come to this? Again? Can't you guys come up with any new material? Well, no. Everybody needs a little time away, the fans will say, from each other. Even list'ners need a holiday, far away, from each other. So, that's what you're getting. Jeff and Dave kick back and let the fans do most of the work for this one. Thanks to all the contributions from a host of loyal listeners, the guys get a break this week to pursue their early-birding, lucubrating, and other sidelines, as well as spending time with their bevy of besties: Lazy Steve, Remote Ron, Ratio "Mark" Hellweg, Slideshow Bob, Local Will, Saswatch, The Abdominal Snowman, The Already But Not Yeti, Embryonic Mark, and the Garnier Fructis representatives. If you don't like inside jokes and running gags, maybe tune out at about minute 47.38. Or, stay until the end (and show up next episode for more substantive content). Thanks for listening!
"Whiter than cottage cheese", "bright as an unripe grape"? This is some world class woo-pitching, and Polyphemus the one-eyed wonder has high hopes that such romantic language will win fair Galatea, sea nymph extraordinaire, to his hirsute side. He may not be much to look at, monobrow and all, but the Cyclops boasts that he comes with many benefits: great musical skill, a cheez whiz packed man cave, and 1000 head of cattle. As Theocritus the famous Syracusan poet tells the tale, should we take it as farce? Or, is the song a serious philosophical inquiry into the healing nature of poetry? Join the guys this week as they take a close look at Idyll XI, an awkward, adolescent love song that the Alexandrian poet composes for that shaggy Cyclops as a backstory, before he encountered Odysseus. The insights of Brooks Otis, Erling Holtsmark, Robert Schmiel, and yes, Dronebrella, set the stage. So, cue your mixtape with Air Supply or Survivor, pray for gills, and don't miss this one!
This week the guys wrap up their look at Richard's trenchant book with his final chapter on the classics and American slavery. Richard teases out how both pro-slavery factions (John C. Calhoun, Thomas Dew, George Fitzhugh) and abolitionists (William Lloyd Garrison, Frederick Douglass) marshaled Greco-Roman thinkers to support their respective causes. The South argued that the flourishing of the arts and thought in Athens was a result of the elite classes being freed from work by the slave population, while the North saw slavery as Athens’ biggest flaw. What do Plato, Aristotle, and Cicero have to say about it all? Did they believe that some swaths of humanity were naturally servile? And, what does “natural law” suggest? Tune in and find out. There's plenty of room here for all of us to learn, even the Twainees.
Dave and Jeff this week tackle two fascinating articles in a portmanteau of Classical learning (Sahoney-Mahouter). First up, it's the 1911 article by famed philologist and New Testament scholar Alexander Souter. Examining the evidence, and building a cumulative argument, Souter argues that the Apostle Paul in all probability could speak the language of Rome's seven hills. But how strong is his case, and where might it be vulnerable to pushback? Then after halftime, Anne Mahoney (Tufts Univ.) leads the show back on to the gridiron for some computer-aided analysis of what Greek and Latin forms are indispensable as to frequency, and which are more of a purple unicorn that can safely be shelved until the third or fourth semester. For language gurus, you won't want to miss the surprises here: vocative outranks dative? Present and perfect tense verbs constitute almost 75% of all Latin verb forms? Quid rei est? And, be sure to send in your own audio clips for episode 200 to join the fun.
All you Marrou fans out there may have been wondering, "Where did that fabulous Frenchmen go"? After all, this little podcast has not covered H.I.'s theme since April 1 of the current year. Fitting date? Don't be fooled, Jeff and Dave have not given up on all things ancient education, and this week the guys return to Part II, Chapter IX. In this portion of the larger section, Classical Education in the Hellenistic Age, Marrou is dealing with what he entitles "Lesser Forms". How was the ephebia structured, and how did the architectural forms change to match this? What did the typical syllabus contain, and what of the formation of a canon? What is the connection between thinking great thoughts and walking? Should you look out for roving hygienists in your neighborhood, and can you earn a certificate or award for φιλοπονία (love of industry)? The disscussion next moves on to the "birdcage" center of ancient learning, the Museum (Alexandria, et alia), where MacArthur Fellowship recipients complained about the sluggish wifi and were feted by the Ptolemies. But we digress. Stick around for the closing bit on medicine and vo. tech, and think about sending us your own reflections for episode 200!
The guys are back to Ovid this week for another pair of vignettes. First up it’s the tragic, would-be love affair between little-known Trojan prince Aesacus and his would be wooed Hesperia. Like Eurydice, Hesperia forgets her little galoshes, and is struck down by a deadly snake in the grass before Aesacus can catch her. Aesacus can’t handle it and goes full Greg Louganis, until the gods turn him into a diving bird. What is Ovid saying here about fate and love's destructive power? Then its on to Pomona who turns down every “prom-posal” till Vertumnus, the sylvan Cicero, gives it a go. Even then it’s no picnic…he’s forced to become his own “wing man”…er, woman? What’s the message? Stop chasing, fellas, and up your disguise and persuasion game? Tune in and find out. Also, don't miss the on-air drawing for the Plato prize.
What hath Athens to do with Jerusalem, Corinth with Philadelphia, or Ephesus with Ft. Lauderdale? Perennial questions these, no doubt, and it doesn't take a Tertullian to ask or answer them. Charles Sumner, Nathaniel "Crimson Digit" Hawthorne, James Fenimore Cooper, or Charles Francis Adams will do. Join the guys this week for the penultimate look at Carl Richard's taut, thrilling, barn-burner, as we peel back the layers on the relationship between Christianity and Classical culture at the apogee of the latter's popularity in those British castoffs, the former colonies. Does pagan morality dovetail nicely with the Christian faith, or is it sharply at odds? What of the antithesis between Christ's "love your enemies and pray for those who hate you", and the Homeric honor code of strict vengeance? Is this conflict real or imagined? And, just how much nudity is acceptable in statuary and painting, whether a Venus di Urbino, or George Washington, who, says Hawthorne, had so much gravitas that he was born clothed? All this and more, plus the usual servings of bad puns (not all Dave's, as it turns out). Don't miss this!
Check this one out! This episode is long overdue! All will be fine(s). Don't get all Dewey-eyed (and other book-borrowing puns)! This week the guys delve into the history (and some stubborn myths regarding it) of the Library of Alexandria. Most people have heard of its “burning”, but do the generally accepted versions of it hold water? Once you get past the cover it seems like things are a bit more complicated: it didn’t all burn down at once; it probably wasn’t the devastating, permanent loss of knowledge as it’s sometimes portrayed, and the whole pagan vs. Christian finger pointing doesn’t help. Join Jeff "Jamie Franklin Hyneman" Winkle and Dave "Adam Savage" Noe as they look at the ancient sources and the archaeology (or lack thereof), and attempt to get down to the nittus-grittus.
This week, Jeff and Dave wrap up the third installment in their brief series on Plato's Apology. So what exactly is Socrates' daimon? Is it like conscience, sometimes accusing, sometimes excusing? Is it similar to what the apostle Paul describes in Romans 2.14-15? If so, how come Socrates' inner voice never motivates him toward action, but only seeks to drive him away from something? And, is Socrates really being honest when he says he is no threat to traditional Athenian religion, seeing how his definition of the divine is anything but Homeric, but rather consists in a newly strict ethical conception, wherein the gods must -- gasp -- behave at least as well as their worshippers? And finally, what's Dave got against Shawshank? Is there any way to redeem this episode? O Chalupa, just tune in to find out!
Sorry (not sorry), it’s back to Plato’s Apology this week for round two. This time the guys tackle the nature of the elenchus—the method of question and answer that Socrates uses to get closer to the ‘truth’ and refute arguments of his interlocturos. How does it show up in the Apology itself? Is the elenchtic method a useful ‘truth-finding’ tool orjust a manipulative tactic not that far from what the Sophists peddled? Where does Socrates end and Plato begin? And how might this affect your opinion of the chalupa? We also turn to the great Gregory Vlastos for help as well as examining Socrates’ beef with the craftsmen. Be sure to listen for the magic word for the great Hackett giveaway.
At long last, Jeff and Dave get around to talking about the great granddaddy of all Western philosophy: Socrates. In this episode, the guys lay the groundwork for a look at Socrates' defense speech, the Apology. What were the social and political factors that contributed to putting the pug-nosed wonder on trial? How did the reign of the 30 tyrants, and Plato's aristocratic background, as well as Socrates'connections to great men like Pericles influence the content of the speech? This episode also examines the role of the elenchus, Socrates' system of question-and-answer refutation, in the development of ethical and moral teaching in the 5th century. Tune in for the instruction, the laughs, and a chance to win your copy of C.D.C. Reeve's A Plato Reader, from Hackett.
This week the guys finish up their look at Wycherley’s How the Greeks Built Cities. We pick up the text with a consideration of the “agora,” a term (as Wycherley emphasizes) that encompasses much more than the translation “marketplace” gets at. Yes, it was a center of business, but also politics, athletics, entertainment, philosophy, and education, while also giving rise to particular architectural features like the stoa. From there we delve into other key features that nearly every Greek polis had—religious shrines, gymnasia, stadiums. Where did the Greeks tend to place these things in their cities? We employ very similar structures and practices today, but do we use or understand them in the same way? After all that we cap it off with a look at residential life, and the form and function of a typical Greek house.
Jeff and Dave are back at the classical goodness this week, with a two-parter from R.E. Wycherly's slim yet substantive volume, How the Greeks Built Cities (1962). Did you ever wonder why today's cities are laid out in a grid pattern? Why here in the U.S. you can count eight blocks per mile? Why most contemporary cities have NE, SE, NW, and SW quadrants? Could this, too, be credited to the Greeks? Or is it just another crazy, Toula Portokalos figment? Spoiler alert: the Greeks strike again. The whole thing was the ingenious innovation of Hippodamus of Miletus, apparently a long-haired rascal, (Hippie-Damus?), who single-handedly revolutionized the design of cities in Attica, Italy, and Rhodes. His ideas (let's keep it all perpindicular, folks) caught on like wildfire. In this episode, we tackle the Preface and Chs. I-III. Chapter I: Growth of the Greek City; Chapter II: Greek Town-planning; Chapter III: Fortifications. And, be sure to tune in for the Herculean opening!
This week Jeff and Dave are wrapping up the Attic portion of their whirlwind tour through beginning Greek textbooks. On the menu today is the text of Donald Mastronarde, as well as Athenaze. After some introductory comments, i.e., a fine anecdote from Halik Kochanski's magisterial Resistance, the nit and the grit of Mastronarde's very thorough presentation is then duly engaged, with a discussion of the presentation of the verb εἰμί, types of the genitive and dative, and a close look at the exempla provided. Then, it's on to Athenaze, a handsome, readings-based text presented obviously with the neophyte student in mind, with engaging stories, clear presentations, excellent vocab. lists, and more. Finally, the guys wrap up with a tour through MossMethod, the 1893 public domain text that Dave has adapted (and tirelessly peddled) to a wordlwide audience. Don't worry, Adnavserinos, we will later cover New Testament (Koine) textbooks (Mounce, Wallace, Decker, Machen, etc.) as promised. Tune in for more gooey, listening goodness.
This one is a Thoreau-back! After a brief hiatus the boys are back in town following sojourns in Greece (Jeff) and South Africa (Dave). It’s also time for our annual “4th of July”(ish) episode—so we return to Carl Richard’s masterpiece, The Golden Age of Classics in America. This time the guys take a look at the era of Romanticism and the place the Classics held amongst America’s romantics and transcendentalists. Here we see a shift away from the empiricism of Aristotle toward the inner “mysticism” of Plato and a view that the ancients should not be models to be slavishly copied, but rather taken as representative of a spirit or nature to imitate, or by which to be inspired. So get down to the lake, get in that cabin, light that lantern and get your contemplation on.
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I'm a new listener and chose this episode as one that might interest my children. We did enjoy it, but must add there are indeed moose in Michigan....upper Michigan. As Packer fans in Wisconsin we love Dr. Noe's suggestion for MI - The Lions Always Lose. 😄