Holy Watermelon

Why are there no bear ghosts? Nearly all the ghosts in the world seem to come from a specific period of time, long before any of us were born. There is a universal obsession with death, so we're going to explore death from the perspective of those left behind. (Traditions about what lays beyond will be the subject of another episode.)We talk about the Shiva tradition in Judaism, and the ghastly tradition of shades that dates back to at least as far as the monarch's encounter with the witch of Endor.We explore some traditions common among Christian denominations, and also WAKES! Another strong ghostly tradition exists among Christians, but not universally shared.We look at funerary and ghostly traditions among Muslims, Sikhs, Buddhists, Hindus, and Zoroastrians; and we take some time to ponder the Ghanaian Fantasy Coffins, and the New Orleans Jazz Funeral. What really deserves attention is the phenomenon of near-death experiences, not that they teach us about the world beyond, but they teach us an awful lot about ourselves. Raymond Moody put a lot of work into that field of NDEs, too bad it's all completely subjective neural chaos. DMT has been reported to offer a similar experience.All this and more....   Support us on Patreon or you can get our merch at Spreadshop.Join the Community on Discord.Learn more great religion factoids on Facebook and Instagram. [00:00:11] Katie Dooley: Hello, Preston.[00:00:12] Preston Meyer: Hi, Katie.[00:00:14] Katie Dooley: Get off your phone.[00:00:15] Preston Meyer: Okay.[00:00:18] Katie Dooley: It'll rot your brain on today's episode of--[00:00:21] Both Speakers: The Holy Watermelon Podcast![00:00:24] Katie Dooley: I don't know how to make a segue into this one.[00:00:27] Preston Meyer: This is a bit of a bummer.[00:00:28] Katie Dooley: It's... I feel like it's a more awkward conversation than even our sex talk.[00:00:33] Preston Meyer: I don't feel like it's more awkward.[00:00:34] Katie Dooley: People don't like talking about death. We're going to talk about some gross things today. [00:00:38] Preston Meyer: A little bit. But yeah, death is around us all the time. Can't really avoid it. That's the deal.[00:00:44] Katie Dooley: No, it's, uh, inevitable. Like Thanos.[00:00:48] Preston Meyer: That's what they say. Yeah, so I was talking to. A person that I work with the other day about his concern with ghosts. He was actually really worried about, um, the Titanic 2 expedition and all that nonsense, but the conversation led very quickly to ghosts, and it boggles my mind that we haven't just agreed that everywhere on the planet is super haunted or nowhere is.[00:01:21] Katie Dooley: I have had that thought as well. Um, I don't disagree with him because. My house alone has been around since the 50s. You can't tell me something hasn't died nearby,[00:01:33] Preston Meyer: Right?[00:01:34] Katie Dooley: Actually, I have heard that there is an unfortunate story with the next-door house, so, um,[00:01:40] Preston Meyer: Tell me more.[00:01:41] Katie Dooley: Uh, apparently someone killed themselves next door before the current people...[00:01:44] Preston Meyer: Bummer. Lived there. Are there haunting stories?[00:01:46] Katie Dooley: Not that I've heard of.[00:01:48] Preston Meyer: Okay. Just the unfortunate circumstances of death.[00:01:51] Katie Dooley: Yes, but that's typically.[00:01:54] Preston Meyer: What leads to a...[00:01:55] Katie Dooley: Haunting story. And I always think about how I'm like, you know, get haunted by your cat or your dog. How come ghosts are only humans? There's no bear ghosts.[00:02:03] Preston Meyer: It's a great question. Cocaine bear has unfinished business.[00:02:09] Katie Dooley: We should name this episode, "How come there are no ghosts?" Though I do really like your title, which we will probably stay with. Um. But I have often thought.[00:02:21] Preston Meyer: Yeah, for sure.[00:02:23] Katie Dooley: Or, like... I don't know...[00:02:25] Preston Meyer: Dinosaur ghosts? Why are we not haunted by the soul of absolutely ravaged Triceratops?[00:02:33] Katie Dooley: And also there's like, I don't know, ghosts feel like they're from a very specific time-period. Like, if you hear, like, how come we all have a ghost kicking around from the 1200s?[00:02:42] Preston Meyer: Right? All ghosts are Dickensian.[00:02:44] Katie Dooley: Yeah, or more modern but, uh, anyway.[00:02:54] Preston Meyer: Death is great, and we have really weird ways of dealing with it.[00:02:58] Katie Dooley: We really do. And I will sort of preface this before we break it down by religion is like we kind of think our way is the right way or the normal way. And reading some of these, some was like, that actually makes a lot of sense on how they handle death. And then some of them, I'm like, that's fucking weird, I won't...[00:03:18] Preston Meyer: Well, if you see one thing often enough, even if you aren't behind it theologically, the habits are still your habits. Normal gets normal.[00:03:27] Katie Dooley: Yeah. So that was, you know, eye opening to say the least.houldUm, anyway, so we kick it off with our good old Abrahamic buddies.[00:03:39] Preston Meyer: Let's do it. Stick with what's most familiar, and then we'll dig into. Yeah, the good stuff. So in Judaism, respect for the dead is one of the most important mitzvot. I feel like we've used this word before. It's commandments. So really take care of the dead. Traditionally, Jewish people bury their dead intact. Some people mostly, you know, you're more reform, more liberal Jewish groups will do the cremation thing. I think that's generally the the theme we'll see moving forward is the more conservatives will not like cremation. We're going to run out of space real soon. An interesting thing that I have read about Judaism is that cremation is counted as destruction of property.[00:04:31] Katie Dooley: Who's property?[00:04:35] Preston Meyer: That's an interesting question.[00:04:37] Katie Dooley: God's property. [00:04:38] Preston Meyer: That makes sense. But there's also the strong family thing in Judaism where there's like you, you belong to your family in this way that you are. If you're not moving that body around yourself anymore, you're property.[00:04:56] Katie Dooley: Oh. We'll, move you around. Oh, wait, that's a different tradition to talk about.[00:05:05] Preston Meyer: Yeah. Uh, Jewish people tend to observe a strict week of mourning after a funeral. They call this the shiva. Uh, it's just the number seven. So seven days of mourning. And during this process, mirrors in the home are often covered. And it's good to keep candles burning. And mourners will sit on nice low stools, like low as your squatty potty.[00:05:33] Katie Dooley: I'm too old for that. I'm not even that old.[00:05:36] Preston Meyer: It's a little tough, but these are all indications of mourning. Black veil is good for that. Things like that. Yeah.[00:05:43] Katie Dooley: Abrahamic and Western favour black for mourning.[00:05:48] Preston Meyer: Yeah and traditionally. Uh, you don't want to hasten up a death. You don't want to speed things along, even if you know death is imminent. Our country has a pretty interesting relationship with assisted death.[00:06:05] Katie Dooley: I think it's going to have to change anyway. That's not to digress too much. We could go on and chat about that, but I have my opinion.[00:06:16] Preston Meyer: Yeah, having it available makes perfect sense. The reality of the government actually pressuring people into it. I'm not a big fan of.[00:06:26] Katie Dooley: But I yeah, I mean it shouldn't be a government decision, but just like your pets, to let someone live in pain just so they can live as long as possible. And health care costs are only going to get more expensive, for whomever.[00:06:42] Preston Meyer: If the only activity on your schedule of day-to-day for months on end is eating up resources, at some point you got to figure out maybe there's a better plan.[00:06:54] Katie Dooley: Well, and I care less about resources as opposed to quality of life. Like we have family members that live every day in pain and then they're also paying. For fentanyl patches, which are very expensive to manage that pain that they're still in.[00:07:10] Preston Meyer: Fentanyl is a wild thing.[00:07:13] Katie Dooley: Anyway, wild.[00:07:16] Preston Meyer: Yeah. But as you may have deduced, we're going to talk about some ghosts today.[00:07:23] Katie Dooley: Really wants to talk about ghosts today. So.[00:07:25] Preston Meyer: So the Tanakh does mention ghosts. Um, there's a lot of different kinds of ghosts I've been in unrelated studies, been trying to suss out how different people categorize ghosts.[00:07:39] Katie Dooley: Like angels. [00:07:40] Preston Meyer: with A little bit. Yeah. Okay, so you've got poltergeists who can legit interact with the physical world, and then you've got shades which are not so much.[00:07:51] Katie Dooley: They're there, but they're they can't do anything.[00:07:53] Preston Meyer: Right. Like maybe you can communicate them. Maybe not, but they just they may be barely visible. They might be more visible, but they're not going to interact physically with the world. So they're like a shadow. So that's a shade sort of thing. So what we have in the Tanakh usually talks about shades more than poltergeists that we have in ancient Israel, the belief that ghosts, the spirits of the departed, could be summoned and you could have conversations with them and learn things from them. The story of Saul and the Witch of Endor is an example.[00:08:35] Katie Dooley: That's from Star Wars, right?[00:08:38] Preston Meyer: George Lucas is not half as original as he likes to get credit for. And Endor was just an old place. No Ewoks, which is just Wookiee backwards. Almost not perfect.[00:08:55] Katie Dooley: I see your theory. Yeah, yeah, yeah.[00:08:57] Preston Meyer: No, the plan was that they were going to go to the Wookiee homeworld

Angels in most traditions are heavenly messengers, and modern pop culture has greatly exaggerated almost every feature. While it makes sense to assume that there are female or feminine angels, each one named in Abrahamic scriptural tradition is a man.The word Angel comes from the Greek Aggelos (lit: messenger), and the Hebrew word Malak has the same meaning. In this episode we explore the groups of archangels listed in various sources, most notably Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, and Uriel, but also including Raguel, Sariel, Remiel, and the Metatron.But more than just a handful of favorite messengers, there are also different kinds of angels, from the baby-faced Cherubim (think of the Renaissance Cupid, though Ezekiel gave them interchangeable animal faces), to the brilliantly dazzling Seraphim (aka fire-folk), to the cosmic horrors known as the Ophanim (the famous "biblically accurate angels" that are simply haunting wheels of eyes and wings and twisted metal)--that last one is dubious in angelic status....Angels show up all over the Hebrew and Christian Bibles, and the entire Quran is said to have been delivered by the same angel that brought Mary and Joseph the news of her pregnancy. In more recent times, works like Paradise Lost and The Divine Comedy have contributed a lot to how we see angels in Western tradition.Angel is also a fair label for demi-god-like beings in other traditions, such as the Devas of Dharmic tradition, the Vördr of Norse tradition, the Yazata (lit: holy) of Mazdeism (aka Zoroastrianism), and the Daemons of Greco-Roman tradition. We consider each of these, and how some are better fits than others for this label.Interpreting Colossians 1:16 to contain a list of angels is ridiculous, and nobody should be that bad at reading.All this and more....   Support us on Patreon or you can get our merch at Spreadshop.Join the Community on Discord.Learn more great religion factoids on Facebook and Instagram. [00:00:11] Katie Dooley: There's a fine. You can go to jail if you... And a fine. There's both. [00:00:19] Preston Meyer: Oh, good. [00:00:19] Katie Dooley: Both a fine and jail. If your phone goes off. [00:00:23] Preston Meyer: That's a bad time. [00:00:24] Katie Dooley: Yeah. It is. You could always ask an angel for help if you go to jail. [00:00:34] Preston Meyer: Ah, there's a lot of stories of people meeting angels in jail. Makes you wonder about those angels, doesn't it? [00:00:39] Katie Dooley: Right. Well, we're gonna explain more on today's episode of.  [00:00:43] Both Speakers: The Holy Watermelon Podcast. [00:00:47] Katie Dooley: Yeah. So. I like that. This is. I feel like we haven't done an episode like this in a minute where we talk about a whole bunch of. We talk about a concept in a whole bunch of religions. [00:01:03] Preston Meyer: Yeah, it has been a minute. [00:01:03] Katie Dooley: I'm excited. So we're talking about angels. [00:01:09] Preston Meyer: Say it ainn't so. [00:01:12] Katie Dooley: Or if you were a really bad speller in junior high an angle. [00:01:16] Preston Meyer: I feel like. Yeah, I must have shared it on our discord this Christmas of somebody who shared a collection of angles that they brought to their family. [00:01:25] Katie Dooley: Yeah, there was a girl in junior high with me. I won't call her a friend because she wasn't. But this was when everyone was on MSN, so you had everyone's email. And her email was sweet angle and then some number. I was like, oh boy. [00:01:41] Preston Meyer: Mhm. Yeah. Spelling is important. [00:01:45] Katie Dooley: Yeah. We all have those cringey emails. [00:01:47] Preston Meyer: Well, it's like most people just cannot spell rogue. [00:01:52] Katie Dooley: Almost every time I see somebody try to say rogue they spell rouge. Now, being a Star Wars fan in a French immersion program growing up, I was not going to make that mistake. Instead, I made all kinds of other mistakes of spelling words the French way in an English context. [00:02:07] Katie Dooley: Well, that's good. Um, but speaking of words, tell us where the word angel comes from. [00:02:13] Preston Meyer: So the word angel as it is known in English. Yes, the the word angel, as you know, it comes from the Greek word Angelos, spelt with no Ns but two G's. Huh? You can complain about that, but English does stupid things too. The word means messenger, which is speculated to have been derived from the older word for mounted courier, which I think is just a cool extra layer of meaning to that. The Hebrew word that typically gets translated into angel in the Greek Bibles is malak, which also means messenger. So there's also the last of the Old Testament or Hebrew Bible prophets. In the Christian Bible format because remember they arrange the books differently is Malachi and he's got the perfect name it basically just means my messenger. Was that his name? We'll never know. [00:03:20] Katie Dooley: Interesting. And yeah, messenger, mounted courier. I'm getting a lot of mailman vibes. Even. Malak. Malak. Malak. Yeah. Mailman. [00:03:36] Preston Meyer: Most of the angels that we see in the Judeo-Christian tradition are men rather than women. So yeah, mailman's great. So the frustrating thing is that the ideas that come along with this word over centuries of thought and baggage collection there's there's a lot of variety and meaning. And most traditions have gotten to the point where the word doesn't mean messenger anymore. Uh, usually it it's just thought of as this is a demigod. The word means some sort of class of demigod, usually with multiple classes. We'll get into that later. And in a lot of religions, you'll see them treated basically as demigods that have dominion over various elements because they can't be gods, because usually you're looking at them in a monotheistic lens. [00:04:36] Katie Dooley: Yeah, I can, especially when when you said it, we'll get into the hierarchy of the angels. But like it's like, how does this even work in a monotheistic tradition to have all of these layers of divine beings? [00:04:50] Preston Meyer: Yeah, they're they're residents of heaven, so they're better than you and me, but they've got great powers, is the deal. [00:05:00] Katie Dooley: And I guess we don't worship angels. I guess saints would actually be a worse sort of like knock to the monotheistic than an angel. [00:05:09] Preston Meyer: Oh, but see, I think it's a mistake to separate them In the Catholic tradition specifically, or any of the the Orthodox, the saint traditions. Lutherans whatever. If you if you're into saints, Saint Michael is one of them. Michael the Archangel, he's a demigod, just like Mother Teresa. Yeah and maybe with better reasons. I.  [00:05:43] Katie Dooley: Mean, can't be worse. [00:05:45] Preston Meyer: One has tales of actual divine power, the other is known to be just awful. [00:05:52] Katie Dooley: Yeah. Cleaned and reuse needles. Yeah. [00:05:54] Preston Meyer: I want to believe that there is a way to clean needles safely. But I know that actual health care professionals say, don't do that. And there's good reason for that. [00:06:04] Katie Dooley: I mean, you're probably right. I'm sure there is. But to, like, guarantee its safety is probably near impossible. Just donated blood this week. Right? Like it's such a small little needle. How would you make sure it was maybe the syringe part, but the little needle anyway. Gross. Don't do it, don't. Clean needles for all. [00:06:25] Preston Meyer: Yeah. Adding angels to monotheism. It does look an awful lot like demigods in a system where there is just one greater God. And we've had this conversation about how Hinduism, you've got a lot of lesser gods under Brahma. [00:06:44] Katie Dooley: Yeah. And I mean even Shinto, all the kami, there's greater kami, there's lesser kami. [00:06:51] Preston Meyer: It's complicated. And it just makes the argument for strict monotheism the way most people define it, a lot harder to argue. [00:07:01] Katie Dooley: Yes. And all the Abrahamic religions have angels, and those are the monotheistic ones. And people are vehement about the fact that they're monotheistic. And it's like, but then they're saints and angels, whether you group them together or not. I mean, even in Christianity, there's the Trinity. [00:07:22] Preston Meyer: Yeah, I saw a meme on Reddit the other day, and it was it was definitely a Mormon kid posting a meme slamming the Trinity in a group that has historically not been friendly to Mormons. And they roasted him hard in the comments, but all of the arguments they offered were absolute nonsense. It's frustrating. Like, it's it's okay to believe in the Trinity if you're going to believe in anything, whatever. But if you're going to slam somebody for not getting it, make sure you get it.  [00:07:22] Katie Dooley: This is such an old movie, but in Bill Maher's Religulous. [00:08:07] Preston Meyer: Oh, that's a lot of fun. [00:08:08] Katie Dooley: It is. He asks one guy about the Trinity, and he, the guy explains it that it's like water. It can be ice, or it can be steam, or it can be water. And that's the Trinity. And I was like, well, that or Bill Maher was like, well, that sounds good on paper, but it really doesn't explain it. They're different, but they're the same. Anyway, we're digressing a bit, but let's jump into talking about angels in the Hebrew Bible. [00:08:32] Preston Meyer: Yeah. So there's. A lot of appearances of angels. It's kind of a recurring theme. [00:08:40] Katie Dooley: Yeah, and not just in the Hebrew Bible, but there are also angels in rabbinic literature and in the Apocrypha as well. [00:08:46] Preston Meyer: Oh for sure. Yeah, the angels are, I would say, a pretty prominent part of this faith. [00:08:51] Katie Dooley: Yeah. And from my research, it feels like there's more angels in the Hebrew Bible than in the Christian Bible. [00:08:59] Preston Meyer: There's definitely more angels named in the Hebrew tradition than there are in the New

Katherine Spallino is the author of The Bad Cadet, a memoir of her days as a child-slave to the secretive Scientologist "Sea Org."Before she joined the Sea Org officially, Katherine was raised away from her family in a boarding school for cursed and abandoned children, part of the last batch permitted by the Sea Org before they banned Sea Org members from having children (and naturally started encouraging abortion).In addition to spilling some personal bits that she was forced to leave out of her book, she shares more information about the organization beyond her childhood experience, and gives us an peek at some of the stories that will be in her follow-up book about her leaving Scientology permanently.Katherine tells us about the contradictions between public statements and internal policies, as well as the motivation behind some of the weirdest paperwork you might ever be asked to sign. As a true believer, much of the Sea Org life might seem natural, but to outsiders, it is truly shocking.We also get some hot gossip about the Scientologists hitting headlines, like Danny Masterson, Tom Cruise, and John Travolta, as well as some who managed to get away, like Nicole Kidman and Katie Holmes (both formerly married to Tom Cruise). Katherine also gives us an answer to that great question: Where is Shelly?All this and more....   You can WATCH this interview on YouTube.You can also follow Katherine on Amazon, and Twitter.Support us on Patreon or you can get our merch at Spreadshop.Join the Community on Discord.Learn more great religion factoids on Facebook and Instagram.[00:00:11] Katie Dooley: Hi Preston. [00:00:13] Preston Meyer: Ah it's another great interview episode today. Uh, we've been doing a lot of reading in preparation for this one. [00:00:20] Katie Dooley: Yes uh, we have a fabulous author on today's episode of.  [00:00:25] Both Speakers: The Holy Watermelon Podcast. [00:00:28] Preston Meyer: One day we'll get it in. [00:00:31] Katie Dooley: We always try to stay in sync, but usually we're in the same room, so it's easier. But, uh. So. Yes. Welcome, Katherine. [00:00:38] Katherine Spallino: Thank you guys so much for having me. [00:00:41] Preston Meyer: So Katherine grew up on a secluded ranch within the Cadet Org, the Church of Scientology's Sea Org School for children. At a young age, Katherine began to journal about her day to day life, capturing the thoughts and experiences of a child coming of age in a cult. Katherine's background offers the rare opportunity to tell the story of the hundreds of children who rarely saw their parents, and were indoctrinated to become future Sea Org members. Katherine is no longer a Scientologist and lives in Minneapolis with her husband, happily raising three rambunctious boys. [00:01:13] Katie Dooley: So very busy. [00:01:14] Katherine Spallino: That's me. [00:01:16] Katie Dooley: Busy. And, uh, yeah, you gotta have kids. After all that was. [00:01:20] Katherine Spallino: Yes. Yeah, I'm living the dream. Except for I didn't realize children were so hard to raise. When you're a child, you're like, I want to have kids. It sounds so magical. And then you're raising the children and you're in the thick of it, and you're like, this is great, right? [00:01:36] Katie Dooley: Um, and also a little bit different of, like, actually raising your children instead of a ranch. [00:01:42] Katherine Spallino: Yes, exactly. [00:01:43] Preston Meyer: I was always told growing up, you're gonna have kids and they're gonna be just like you. And it sounds like you were a little bit of trouble growing up, too. [00:01:51] Katherine Spallino: Yeah. So I'm kind of getting. I'm reaping what I sowed. [00:01:56] Katie Dooley: I loved I loved where your book ended, but it left so much to know. And I know there's a sequel coming. I'd love to figure out, you know, what eventually made you leave Scientology? And maybe a little preview of the Bad Scientologist. [00:02:11] Katherine Spallino: Yeah, I've decided I will give a little, like spoiler, because I do think it's important for people to understand that I am not a Scientologist. And the book ends. It's it's a spoiler. So you can mute me if you want, if you are going to if anybody listening wants to get the book. But I mean, it's obvious that I'm not in Scientology, so it's not really a spoiler in a way. But I do end the book leaving how it's how I left the Sea Org. But there's a whole nother journey I have to take to leave Scientology. And that's what the, uh, my second novel will be. Because when you're in a cult, you believe something everything's so much, and they teach you to not look at outside information. So it's really hard to leave cults because they're, like, literally trained to not listen to anybody else. So what when I, I was living my best life, when I, when I had left and was living in LA supporting myself at 17 years old, like had my own apartment, out partying on the weekends like it was great. Broke all the time, so broke. But it doesn't matter. You know, I was free, but I was still a Scientologist and I had something happen where my brother, who's older, he was dying. He had a diagnosis when he was young of aplastic anemia. And I went into remission. It came back in his 20s. So they in Scientology world, if somebody's sick, somebody is made sick. So they my brother was getting sick and he was in what's called the Sea Org. The Sea Org is the people who work for the Church of Scientology. And they dedicate a billion years of their life like they work 12 hour days, very little pay. They're going to be there their whole lifetime. That's what I had left, and my brother was still in it. My mom and dad was still in it. I realized I didn't set this up for any of your listeners, and my sister was still in it. So my brother was getting sick. I was still considered a Scientologist, like I'll go to Scientology events. I wasn't really taking any services, but I wholeheartedly believed in Scientology. And I got called in to the church and they said, you're causing your brother to be sick. And they said, I'm basically evil. And that if I say one negative thing about Scientology, which I hadn't been, I would be what's called declared a suppressive person. And when they do that, it's like being excommunicated from the church, which is like so, so devastating to hear. And I had to just respect that and like, not talk to my mom and my dad and my sister. I was about to turn 21 and I had to hold it all into my chest. You can't complain about Scientology also to others. So I was holding all this information, and the person I was dating at the time, who was actually now my husband, grew up Christian, and so he was like, you don't seem like your normal bubbly self, like what's going on? And I was like, oh no, it's fine. And meanwhile I turned 21. No call for my parents because they can't talk to me. My husband said at the time, I'm never going to be a Scientologist. So whatever it is, you could tell me. And hearing that gave me the freedom to talk about it because I was like, oh, I'm not going to stop his path to join Scientology. That's literally how much I believe in Scientology. Yeah. So that gave me like the I felt comfortable enough to like, I could tell him about it because I didn't want him to not be able to join Scientology because it says something negative about it. Like I literally thought, like, Scientology is the answer to everything. But when he said he wasn't going to do it, I was like, well, I could tell him about these random people that are just like bad apples in the Church of Scientology. Like, I was still kind of I was excusing it in my mind, but hearing myself talk about it, I think, opened up like a crack in my mind. And then I started to kind of go on the internet, which you should not do if your a Scientologist. So many stories on the internet about the truth about L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology, and how he made up all these lies, and then there's all the people who were in the church who had left and all their stories. So I began to read all of that, and that's how I was able to, like, educate myself enough to leave. So there's a whole journey there that still it took another couple of years, and that would be in my book. But like having how does somebody extricate themselves from a cult without losing their family? And so that's what I did and then I still managed to keep my family because I just was like able to communicate to my mom, who grew up in a Pentecostal household, like, hey, you didn't want to be a Pentecostal. You wanted to go learn for yourself, let me go learn for myself. And that was something she could relate to, so she would still visit me and so on. But then my best friend was on Leah Remini's show, and I knew about it. And the fact that I knew about it, my parents cut me off like, just like that. And then I was like, okay, I guess I'm going to write this book because I wasn't going to write it because I was like, I need to keep my family in my life. You're not allowed to talk negative about Scientology, though, and my book isn't even negative, right, about Scientology. It's just telling a story. But they would consider it negative because it does open a lot of eyes to the circumstance of all these children who were just shunted off from their Sea Org parents and raised as little adults, and not given the proper care that you would normally give a child. [00:07:10] Katie Dooley: Yeah, absolutely. But you're right, it wasn't particularly negative. I mean, reading about the author and knowing about you. It's after doing that, you know, you've left Scientology, but other than that, it's just a great, more on what it's like growing up in... And that was the last Cadet Org because they're not allowed to have children anymore. Were you kind of the last cohort of kids? [00:07:32] Katherine Spallino: There was like five Cadet Orgs, two in California, uh, one in Florida, one in Australia, one in Englan

Bonnie Lu Nettles and Marshall Herff Applewhite, Jr. founded what is known today as Heaven's Gate, a fantastic group of UFO enthusiasts and religious believers. Though they both came from a Christian background in Texas, the mystery of Area 51 affected their daily lives to the very end.  Nettles was a nurse, and Applewhite was a pastor, but they shared a willingness to adjust their cosmology (and theology) with new information. Before the end, they had biblical arrangement of seer and spokesman, but they were a lot more extreme about sexual abstinence than even your most annoying Christian friend.   Bonnie and Marshall adopted new names about as often as you might change your shoes--something that Nike would prefer not to talk about.   While the evidence suggests that Nettles and Applewhite were true believers, going so far as to offer financial support to those who decided their commune wasn't right for them, thing proved dangerous at the end, when Applewhite decided that the spirit of a long deceased Nettles was on a spaceship tailing the Hale-Bopp Comet, which would pass by the Earth in 1997.  Fearing an unprovoked Waco-style massacre, and believing the next stage of human evolution was achievable through suicide, the cult of Heaven's Gate willingly took their own lives with pudding/apple sauce mixed with phenobarbital.  We explore the realities surrounding brainwashing, and the various pseudonyms taken on by everybody involved, and the fantastic range of names adopted by the church before settleing on Heaven's Gate (Anonymous Sexaholics Celibate Church; Human Individual Metamorphosis; Total Overcomers Anonymous).   All this and more....   Support us on Patreon or you can get our merch at Spreadshop.Join the Community on Discord.Learn more great religion factoids on Facebook and Instagram.

Apotheosis is the process of becoming a god, and that gift isn't always limited to the dead.Some classic examples include Asclepius, Ariadne, and Glaucus.Apotheosis also appears in the Abrahamic tradition, in a varity of manifestations, including the Alawite tradition, which elevates Ali ibn Abi Talib to godhood. We examine the diference between Apotheosis and Theosis in the Christian tradition. Preston expounds on the exaltation promised in the Latter-day Saint tradition. We look at the worship of mortals in cults of personality (Jim Jones, Amy Carlson, Joseph Kony, Nirmala Srivastava, and Alan John Miller), the god kings of the empires, and those who were deified posthumously by their followers (Buddha, Hitler, Washington, Pythagoras, Mother Mary, Saint Teresa of Calcutta), and even some who were involuntarily deified in their lifetimes (Raj Patel, Kumari, Prince Philip, as well as some of the old Apostles of Christ).There's also the wonder of Apocolocyntosis (divi) Claudi, or pumpkinification, the extravagant or absurdly uncritical glorification of a person.All this and more.... Support us on Patreon or you can get our merch at Spreadshop.Join the Community on Discord.Learn more great religion factoids on Facebook and Instagram.

Euhemerism is essentially the hypothesis that many of the gods who have been celebrated throughout history may not have been simple fabrications but real people around whom great myths developed and grew to legendary proportions. Euhemerus was a fellow who entertained and educated with tales of how the old gods of Hellenic (Greek) tradition were originally humans, mortals who lived mundane or occasionally exciting lives, and died, forever to decay into nothingness, who would have been forgotten if they hadn't become objects of institutionl veneration. Most of his hypotheses have been forgotten, but the principle remains, and naturally leads to interesting speculation.Was Odin a real man, or an amalgamation of wisened wanderers? Were the Aesir (Asgardians) Asian kings, or Germanic immigrants to Scandinavia, rather than simple legendary personifications of the elements and national ideals?We also discuss why Christianity isn't a good fit for this discussion on Euhemerism, but that maybe the Abrahamic religious origin could be. All this and more.... Support us on Patreon or you can get our merch at Spreadshop.Join the Community on Discord.Learn more great religion factoids on Facebook and Instagram.

Ever wonder why we bother with the groundhog, or horseshoes, or four-leaf clovers? Have you noticed city employees relying on divining rods to find your water leak? Where do all these superstitions come from, and how do they manage to linger in our science-powered information age? All these questions have answers, and we've tracked them down for you.Crossing your fingers isn't just a simple thing to do to have luck on your side or negate the evil of a lie, it's a prayer of invocation in its simplest nonverbal form. People also overvalue salt, and clovers, and iron horseshoes for superstitious pursuits of luck and/or safety. Wait until you find out how lucky the first owner of that rabbit-foot was....In 2017, after her parents had spotted some funny behavior, Sally LePage brought to the world's attention that the water companies of England were using dowsing rods to find leaks in underground water pipes. Twitter did its thing, and water-workers  were popping up all over the place to validate the old-timey superstition of divining rods.We also take a look at the history behind Groundhog Day, and the divination surrounding the hopes for spring.Ultimately, the most superstitious people are those who have very limited control over their lives and livelihoods; superstitions allow them to feel like something they do has a meaningful effect. All this and more.... Support us on Patreon or you can get our merch at Spreadshop.Join the Community on Discord.Learn more great religion factoids on Facebook and Instagram.

Zarathustra is the mythical hero at the foundation of Mazdaism, and thus it is better known as Zoroastrianism. Because ancient sources disagree on when this camel herder lived, it's nearly impossible to prove that he ever did, though there must have been an original founder of this ancient Persian religious tradition, the man's true name is certainly lost to time.Some Christians (especially the Jesuits) like to claim that Zoro was a biblical character, though there are different opinions on which one.This episode's story time is "The Cypress of Kashmar."As we explore this ancient tradition, we map out the conflict betwen Asha and Druj (and Nasa), and the Amesha Spenta (archangels) that support the righteous Ahura Mazda. The Yasna is terribly important, so we talk about that, too. Naturally, we have to discuss the ideas that were adopted by exilic Judaism, and that persisted and evolved with the rise of Christianity.All this and more.... Support us on Patreon or you can get our merch at Spreadshop.Join the Community on Discord.Learn more great religion factoids on Facebook and Instagram.

Frank McMahon served in the VATICAN. Now, he's joining us to talk about his experience with Playboy, puberty, alcohol abuse, Buddhism, and the things he loved about his service with the Missionary Oblates of Mary Immaculate, as well as why he left, and the things he hopes to see change in the church. We talk about Frank's favorite and least favorite saints, and about some of the mechanisms that drive the Roman Catholic Church, as well as practices he and many other Christians are adopting from Buddhist ideals. All this and more....We're sorry that this interview doesn't have video on YouTube.This interview continues on Patreon Find Holy Watermelon merch at  SpreadshopJoin the Community on DiscordGet more great religion facts in your feed on Facebook and Instagram

St. Nicholas' Day has passed, but we're not done with Christmas visitors yet. Santa has taken a few different forms over the centuries, and he's got an army of companions and alternates, too. Santa Claus takes inspiration from a variety of European folk  traditions,  and many of these old traditions have survived with modifications in the Christian era. In this episode we talk about a lot of our historically celebrated holiday gift bearers: - the Krampus of Central Europe; - the Ded Moroz of Russian winters; - the Icelandic Jolasveinar (Yule Trolls), the 13 hungry brothers who each stay a fortnight in the darkest part of the winter; - the truly monstrous Joulupukki  (Yule Goat) of Finnish tradition, thankfully he's softened up over the years; - Mos Gerila, the Romanian Communist holiday hunk;- the sloppy Christmas poop-log known as Tio de Nadal;- Germany's less celebrated Belsnickel was made famous by The Office's Dwight Schrute;- Italy's own Befana, the guide for the three magi;- and we certainly can't leave out the controversial Black Pete, but we're pleased to report that his image is getting a favourable update.All these get a special moment in the spotlight in addition to the time we spend exploring the real and imaginary histories of jolly old Saint Nicholas who eventually came to be known as Sinterklaas, or  Santa Claus. Naturally, this must include a discussion of the history of Chris Kringle (lit: "the Christ Child").All this and more.... Support us on Patreon or you can get our merch at Spreadshop.Join the Community on Discord.Learn more great religion factoids on Facebook and Instagram.

There's no shortage of saints with questionable careers, even during their "faithful years." For others, we might be looking at people who never existed. Let's explore more saints who might not deserve such exalted status.We can say with almost rock solid certainty that Saint Vernoica never existed. She is famed for the veil that bears the imprinted face of Christ--in fact, that's how the name Veronica was derived: the TRUE ICON [of Christ]. Nothing about her can be verified, but the veil (certainly a hoax) has well documented travels and miracles.Saint George of Lydda is the patron of several countries and military bodies, but there's some doubt on whether he was real. Certainly, his most famous conquest of the dragon is a fiction, typical of the knightly figures of the middle ages, and nothing more. If the man is real, then he might have been a soldier-martyr under Diocletian, and that--at least--is worth some regard, but the doubt remains--especially surrounding his various forms of attempted execution. To add further confusion around the figure, his popularity among Muslims brought new tales to his martyrdom.Saint Angela of Foligno might have led a misguided life before confessing her Christian faith and joining the Church of Rome, but what's chilling is the possibility that she murdered her family to focus on her religious observances. She certainly liked being in the limelight, so prophecy and theological literature became the new means to that end. Always be suspicious of people who can't handle being out of the spotlight.Mother Teresa of Calcutta (Agnes of Kolkata) was a vicious monster! Even though we've spoken of her before, there's more to say. While Katie might focus a little too much on Teresa's crisis of faith, there's a lot to unpack around how happy Teresa was to see other people suffer. Add to that the fraudulent fundraising she did for the church and you get somebody who was sainted with alarming speed.They're not all bad saints, some of them never existed at all. For more saints that make bad role models, check out our June 2021 episode, "Guess Who's Been Sainted."All this and more.... Support us on Patreon or you can get our merch at Spreadshop.Join the Community on Discord.Learn more great religion factoids on Facebook and Instagram.

Andrew Penner grew up in the Mennonite tradition of the Anabaptist movement. The Anabaptists have a colorful history of subversion from the Catholic Church, despite their commitment to pacifism. There's an awful lot to learn on these subjects, including the connection with the Amish and Hutterite branches, as well as the variation within the Mennonite conferences. (Jakob Amman and Jakob Hutter were a little more extreme than Menno Simons.)Early Anabaptist beliefs are outlined in the 1527 Schleitheim Confession of Faith, so we discuss these points with Andrew, and get the lowdown on their importance in Menoism, in contrast with the greater network of Anabaptism. Andrew relates these subjects to his own experiences and his family history, and he shares with us how this is affected by his being a Freemason, too.You can WATCH this interview on YouTubeThis interview continues on Patreon Find Holy Watermelon merch at  SpreadshopJoin the Community on DiscordGet more great religion facts in your feed on Facebook and Instagram

As we close out the spooky season, it's time to talk about Puritanism and the extremism that led to witch hunts and barbaric murders of innocents.The Puritan movement was born from the Church of England, with the idea that King Henry VIII and the new English national episcopalian congregation hadn't reformed nearly enough after breaking away from the Imperial Church of Rome. Like the Pharisees before them, they sought to purify their faith from every element of external influence. They preferred the leadership of a council of elders (a presbyterian model), and simpler, plainer buildings in which to worship.Rather than fearing demonic possession, this new flavor of literate extremists feared a devil who could trick people into signing contracts of eternal damnation. To these unorthodox believers, anybody so deceived would be a witch who would certainly spell the doom of their community and their Puritan way of life. When this group settled in America, they effectivel established a theocracy over their colonies, exiling any who deviated too far from the community standards, unless they were found to be a witch, which their tradition had criminalized to the point of public execution. In 1692, when Betty Parris and Abigail Williams accused Sarah Goode, Sarah Osborne, and the slave Tituba of being witches, things were already tense in Salem, Massachusetts. Their accusation set off a chain of witch trials and executions that lasted over a year. This 'Satanic Panic' saw more than 200 accusations, 22 executions (including 2 dogs), and 5 more women who died in jail before their trials.All this and more.... Support us on Patreon or you can get our merch at Spreadshirt.Join the Community on Discord.Learn more great religion factoids on Facebook and Instagram.

Halloween is--despite what you might hear from your local evangelical group--a Christian holiday... kinda.There's a lot to it, and there are layers of syncretism to dig through, but just under the secular (not-technically-pagan) veneer of sugar and chocolate, is a thick layer of juicy Christian religious expression.All Saints' Day on the old calendar begins at sunset, giving us the EVE of so many great holidays. Halloween was never meant to become it's own distinct holiday until we made it a great party. We explore the original dates for the Christian festivals for the dead saints, and how more recent authorities (Pope Gregory IV) moved the religious celebration 1200 years ago. We are obligated to look at the Celtic Samhain (or Calan Gaeaf) and the old Roman Lemuria, and the claims surrounding Wicca. Opening the earth in the cold season before the freeze brings with it a vast collection of superstitious ideas around the dead and their visitations, too, and we can't leave out the fae folk. We examine the traditions of the jack-o-lanterns, and guising, the fascination with death, and the uniquely Canadian contribution to the nearly-global practice of Trick-or-Treating. With the Mexican Day of the Dead, we also dip into the story of Lazaro Cardenas del Rio and 1930s' Aztec-Mexican nationalism and the beautifying effects of secularism.After all, we have to spend some time exploring anti-Halloween rhetoric among evangelical Christians, and it's a little tough.All this and more.... Support us on Patreon or you can get our merch at Spreadshirt.Join the Community on Discord.Learn more great religion factoids on Facebook and Instagram.

We've really enjoyed doing this show together, and we've learned a lot. It's time to reflect on the foundation we've built.The natures of knowledge and belief are tricky philosophical concepts, and the motives any person might have for believing anything or claiming knowledge are as varied as anything else in human behaviour. We answer audience questions, and we have questions for each other, too; but if you want to hear the religiously-themed FMK suggested by one of our listeners, you'll find that on Patreon.This one's a little more fun than most of our previous episodes, but any good celebration should be. All this and more.... Support us on Patreon or you can get our merch at Spreadshirt.Join the Community on Discord.Learn more great religion factoids on Facebook and Instagram.

Canada's National Day for Truth and Reconciliation is right around the corner, and we've decided to interrupt our regular programming in favour of an interview with Cheryl Whiskeyjack from Bent Arrow Traditional Healing Society, and some important First Nations Stories.Canada's name is derived from an old word for village, making us the nation of villages.We discuss the role of storytelling, and the place for newcomers and women within indigenous tradition, as well as the power of ceremonial tradition in day-to-day life.  Cheryl teaches us a little bit about her religious background, some of the great mythology of Turtle Island, and how she learned the traditions of her current faith, and the power of womanhood.  Cheryl also discusses things like cultural misappropriation, the legacy of residential schools, and the path to healing for Canada's First Nations Peoples and all Canadians. All this and more.... You can WATCH this interview on YouTubeConnect with Cheryl on Facebook, or check out Bent Arrow on Facebook Find Holy Watermelon merch at  SpreadshirtJoin the Holy Watermelon Community on DiscordGet more great religion facts in your feed on Facebook and Instagram by following us.

If you think you know Mormonism, this one's for you. We examined the origins of the Latter Day Saints last month, and now we're taking a look at the men that led the Mormons in various divisions. There was a nonet of splinter groups that left the early Mormon Church before the assassination of Joseph Smith, but some of them shouldn't really count, since they disavowed everything Joseph taught, and they had no interest in the Book of Mormon, but there were a couple who broke away because they believed what Joseph taught, but believed he was a fallen prophet.After the succession crisis and the Great Mormon Schism, Brigham came out on top as the leader of the largest faction, and he took his party to the Salt Lake Valley, but several groups splintered off to avoid Brigham, while others splintered off much later to keep Brigham's vision alive forever. We're exploring the history of the Bickertonites, the Strangites, and the Smith-family branch formerly known as the RLDS, now called the Community of Christ. (The name change came right after the leadership was separated from the Smith family.)  We also look at the FLDS and their ilk, though they deserve greater attention in a later episode. What makes the Brighamite Majority LDS Church in Utah different from the others?  The biggest difference is the Latter-Day Saint Temples and the secretive Endowment, so we get into that, too.All this and more.... Support us on Patreon or you can get our merch at Spreadshirt.Join the Community on Discord.Learn more great religion factoids on Facebook and Instagram.

Brigham Young gets a lot of credit as the "American Moses," but it's nothing compared to the work Joseph Smith did to earn that title. Moses led the people for many years, from place to place, but he never entered the Promised Land--like Joseph Smith. Joshua was the one who led the final trek into their new home--THAT'S Brigham's parallel. The Latter Day Saint movement (Utah Mormonism, et al) lives within the broader category of millennial restorationism. Not your typical Protestants, these guys believe in an angelic restoration of the church after a complete apostacy from the divinely appointed church. The volcanic explosion of Mount Tambora in 1815 is credited with not only the bad weather that brought us Frankenstein's monster, but also with moving the Smith family from Vermont to where they would find the Golden Codex of Mormon. Who was Joseph Smith? What did the early Mormons believe? What's the deal with polygamy? After considering the Smith family connection to Methodist and Presbyterian churches in the Second Great Awakening, we take time to explore the principal Mormon sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation, Ordination, Endowment, and Marriage. Polygyny (a subset of polygamy) deserves some special attention, and we deliver. Joseph Smith reported countless angelic and divine visitations, and it was an angel that instructed him relative to the Book of Mormon as early as 1823. It's worth noting that the "Mormon Bible" is a poor label for the Book of Mormon, since the church officially sticks with the King James Version (KJV) of the Bible in English-speaking congregations. In 1844, Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum were assassinated while in jail, murdered by an angry mob. We explore some of the details that led to their martyrdom. This week's episode is the first half of a two-part exploration of the Mormon tradition. Next time we'll talk about the splits before and after the assassination, and what makes the Brighamite Majority LDS Church in Utah (Latter-Day Saints, with a hyphen) different from the others. All this and more.... Support us on Patreon or you can get our merch at Spreadshirt.Join the Community on Discord.Learn more great religion factoids on Facebook and Instagram.

Lost books include apocryphal literature from heretics, grifters, and entrapment-dodging translators, but there's also genuine works that were abridged or edited later, allowing the originals to disappear in the fog of disuse. Some books are lost because their religious traditions and communities have died out or were pushed underground, and other books are the stuff of legend, and may never have really existed....After our discussion of how the various canons were established, we MUST discuss what was left on the cutting room floor.In addition to the more popular Deuterocanonical "Apocrypha" of the Alexandrian Greek Judeo-Christian tradition, there's a vast collection of other Jewish apocryphal and pseudepigraphical writings, and more from Christian writers. Some of our favorites are the Book of Jubilees, and the Testament of Job, and the Christian Infancy Gospels.There is also material that was once listed with--and within--sacred texts that has been lost, including several Hebrew prophetic books mentioned in the Tanakh, and several lost apostolic letters mentioned in the New Testament canon. Even the original Book of Mormon has material that didn't make it into the final publication.With these books, we also explore some of the lost books of Mani (the founder of Manichaeism), the legendary Purvas of Jainism, the burned books of the pre-colonial Mexicans of the Aztec Triple-Alliance, the Christian Book of Nepos, and the Gospel of Eve.But all is not lost, we have been fortunate to discover--in the last century--the Nag Hammadi Library and the Dead Sea Scrolls, so we have to examine these, too.Learn more about the Dead Sea Scrolls project at www.deadseascrolls.org.ilSupport us on Patreon and consider joining our Book Club.You can get our exclusive merch at Spreadshirt.Join the Community on Discord.Learn more great religion factoids on Facebook and Instagram.

Staring Down the Canon might be intimidating for some, but now that we've explored several holy texts, we're ready to talk about the nature of scriptural authority and how texts are measured against one another within religious traditions. Books are a great way to preserve knowledge, testimony, and prophecy, but its imperative that readers remember that authors perform their work as imperfect people full of biases and ignorance, just like the readers themselves. Canon is the criterion against which all ideas and writings are measured. No canon has been divinely established, instead, canon is the product of intense deliberation and authoritative ruling. To help illustrate the universality of this word's utility, Preston uses the Star Wars canon (pre-Disney) to lay down an intellectual foundation before getting into more germane examples in more religious realms.Fundamentalism is a growing problem in some faith communities, particularly among those who run from a healthy education, seeing their parents' favorite version of their favorite book as the only authoritative source of information on history, physics, biology, geology, and astronomy. What could go wrong? Support us on Patreon and consider joining our Book Club.You can get our exclusive merch at Spreadshirt.Join the Community on Discord.Learn more great religion factoids on Facebook and Instagram.