Integrated Rhythm

In this episode (Part 1 of 2), we're with dancer, historian, educator, promoter, instigator, designer, and business owner JULIA LOVING. We share Norma Miller stories, the historical Civil Rights legacy of Julia's family, and how both have shaped the design of Julia's incredible swing dance events. 0:00 Miss Norma enters the room… 6:00 Norma's memories 8:35 Empowerment and tough love 11:00 Norma asks you to come over and talk to her 14:30 The stories we don't remember 19:00 Continuums of Lindy 23:30 It's multi-dimensional and all tied together 28:30 The legacy of the Lovings 37:30 It's in my family 39:00 There's a continuum of Lindy Hop in Harlem 41:00 Julia's vision for promoting 43:30 There's nothing like having your own Black agency -------------------- Welcome to Integrated Rhythm! Two Swing Dancing besties (Chisomo Selemani & Bobby White) navigate race and the Black Experience in the world of Jazz Dance and other Afro-centric social dancing. Our goal is comfortable conversations about uncomfortable things. Our intro and ad music this week is by Barron Ryan, Laurel Ryan's brother. Check out firstofitskind.net, and www.barronryan.com.  Our podcast music is by Laurel Ryan & Michelle Stokes, our "We're back! song" was an improvisation by Steffanie AK Schilling, and the background drumming is by Bobby White Find us at your local podcast ap, or at: https://anchor.fm/integratedrhythm  Please donate to help keep us in business: Patreon: patreoncom/integratedrhythm PayPal: robertwhiteiii@gmail.com Venmo: @bobbyswungover (Where applicable, lease put the note "IR" in it, so that we know it's for the podcast.)

In this episode, we talk to dance instructor and ILHC MC URSULA HICKS about Lindy Hop clothing, honky-tonking, contact improvisation, and what she would add to the world of Lindy Hop teaching. Thanks to our Patreon Patrons! Patrons--   Sasha K Justnigel Ann Sofie van Enis Katja Alexandria July Belber Rebecca BurWei Dee Mathews Brooks Prumo Jessie Brooks Aryn Kelly Audrey Bui Ian Dawson Karen Compos McCormack Amy Sorenson Nika Jin Emily Benze Angel Jenio Nick Cruickshank Taylor Stender Leila Gass Selena Kruse Ryan Lemar Cal Tara Sliwinski Rebecca Harris Lori Taniguchi Christian Frommelt Allison Frey Lucie Q Mazzanti Gary Chyi Laura Windley Lynn Maslen   And huge thanks to Lawrence Kalantari Karen Shrieber   Who donated big in order to help us pay for the work!  

TARYN NEWBORNE , who started off in ballroom dance before finding swing and Lindy Hop, has combined her passions to become an amazing swing singer and band leader. She joined us to talk about her story, what a swing scene family is, and hopes for how we can emerge from the pandemic. Making a great record takes a lot of time, and, sadly, money. You can help make a Taryn Newborne album a reality! Consider a donation to... CashApp: https://cash.app/$SingTarynSwing Venmo: @Taryn-Newborne PayPal: tarynsdream@gmail.com Zelle: tarynsdream@gmail.com

We're back, with STEFFANIE AK SCHILLING! Fun times discussing Juneteenth, European racism, colorism, the Balboa scene, and more! If you are able, please consider donating to our patreon! https://www.patreon.com/integratedrhythm (or one time donations to paypal.me/bobbywhite3) And huge thanks to our Patreon patrons: Jessica Brooks, Aryn Kelly, Audrey Bui, Ian Dawson, Amy Sorenson, Nika Jin, Angel Jenio, Taylor Stender, Ryan Lemar, Rebecca Harris, Lori Taniguchi, Christian Frommelt, Allison Frey, Gary Chyi, Laura Windley, Lynn Maslen. As well as special thanks to Lawrence Kalantari  and Karen Schreiber.  Without which, this project would not be possible!

Chisomo & Bobby discuss the "You're Wrong About" podcast's fantastic "Ebonics Controversy" episode. We discuss what makes a language a language, code switching, and authenticity.  If you are able, please consider donating to our patreon! https://www.patreon.com/integratedrhythm (or one time donations to paypal.me/bobbywhite3) And huge thanks to our Patreon patrons: Jessica Brooks, Aryn Kelly, Audrey Bui, Ian Dawson, Amy Sorenson, Nika Jin, Angel Jenio, Taylor Stender, Ryan Lemar, Rebecca Harris, Lori Taniguchi, Christian Frommelt, Allison Frey, Gary Chyi, Laura Windley, Lynn Maslen. As well as special thanks to Lawrence Kalantari  and Karen Schreiber.  Without which, this project would not be possible!

In PART 2 of our Season 2 debut, Michelle Stokes, Laurel Ryan, Andrea Gordon, and Julia Loving join Chisomo & Bobby to listen to Norma Miller's 1970s stand up album and discuss it and what makes humor of its time. Btw, ALL THE CONTENT WARNINGS.  If you are able, please consider donating to our patreon!   https://www.patreon.com/integratedrhythm  And huge thanks to our Patreon patrons: Jessica Brooks, Aryn Kelly, Audrey Bui, Ian Dawson, Amy Sorenson, Nika Jin, Angel Jenio, Taylor Stender, Ryan Lemar, Rebecca Harris, Lori Taniguchi, Christian Frommelt, Allison Frey, Gary Chyi, Laura Windley, Lynn Maslen. As well as special thanks to Lawrence Kalantari  and Karen Schreiber.  Without which, this project would not be possible!

In our Season 2 debut, Michelle Stokes, Laurel Ryan, Andrea Gordon, and Julia Loving join Chisomo & Bobby to listen to Norma Miller's 1970s stand up album and discuss it and what makes humor of its time. Btw, ALL THE CONTENT WARNINGS.    If you are able, please consider donating to our patreon!   https://www.patreon.com/integratedrhythm  And huge thanks to our Patreon patrons: Jessica Brooks, Aryn Kelly, Audrey Bui, Ian Dawson, Amy Sorenson, Nika Jin, Angel Jenio, Taylor Stender, Ryan Lemar, Rebecca Harris, Lori Taniguchi, Christian Frommelt, Allison Frey, Gary Chyi, Laura Windley, Lynn Maslen  As well as special thanks to patrons Lawrence Kalantari and Karen Schreiber.  Without which, this project would not be possible!

Holding on. That seems to be a theme as we discuss Black American English, Southerners traveling North, and, of course, jazz dance.  0:00 Black American English: It's a language! 11:30 Bobby experiences a TINY bit of language discrimination, compared to how much Black Americans experience.      16:30 Discrimination of language is discrimination of people 20:00 Chisomo's speaking as an unintended role model for Black students 24:00 Code switching, both conscious and subconscious 33:00 The Great Migration and soul food 40:00 Cleveland vs Australia 41:00 Gullah culture and Jazz Dance 45:30 The Carribean & New Orleans -------------------------- Welcome to Integrated Rhythm! Two Swing Dancing besties (Chisomo Selemani & Bobby White) navigate race and the Black Experience in the world of Jazz Dance and other Afro-centric social dancing. Our goal is comfortable conversations about uncomfortable things. Our podcast music is by Laurel Ryan & Michelle Stokes, our intro music this week is by Barron Ryan, Laurel Ryan's brother (check out firstofitskind.net, and www.barronryan.com.) And, the background drumming is by Bobby White. Find us at your local podcast app, or at: https://anchor.fm/integratedrhythm Please donate to help keep us in business: Patreon: patreoncom/integratedrhythm PayPal: robertwhiteiii@gmail.com Venmo: @bobbyswungover (Where applicable, lease put the note "IR" in it, so that we know it's for the podcast.)     

Turning to History This is how NICHOLAS "NIKO" CENTINO, Assistant Professor of Chicana/o Studies at California State University, answered the complex questions brought up in an American background steeped in different cultures. In this conversation we discuss his own experiences as a Person of Color, as well as zoot suits, the Neo Swing era, and his new book, "Razabilly." 0:00 Razabilly 6:30 Wherever there's oppression, there's resistance 13:30 The Niko origin story 26:00 A Brief Deconstruction of "Zoot Suit Riot" 36:30 On Zoot Suits and how badass they are 43:30 The interplay of all that is Niko 48:00 "I can't take my presence as a Man of Color in the scene for granted." ----------------------------------------- Welcome to Integrated Rhythm! Two Swing Dancing besties (Chisomo Selemani & Bobby White) navigate race and the Black Experience in the world of Jazz Dance and other Afro-centric social dancing. Our goal is comfortable conversations about uncomfortable things. Our podcast music is by Laurel Ryan & Michelle Stokes, our intro and ad music this week is by Barron Ryan, Laurel Ryan's brother (check out firstofitskind.net, and www.barronryan.com.) And, the background drumming is by Bobby White. Find us at your local podcast app, or at: https://anchor.fm/integratedrhythm Please donate to help keep us in business: Patreon: patreoncom/integratedrhythm PayPal: robertwhiteiii@gmail.com Venmo: @bobbyswungover (Where applicable, lease put the note "IR" in it, so that we know it's for the podcast.)

Thanks for bearing with us as some life situations take place! We believe we can do a few more episodes before we have to take another short break. Enjoy this Char-Char & Bobby episode where we discuss a White swing dancer getting interviewed for a New York Times story about a Black swing dancer. 0:00 Btw, Bobby was a journalist 6:15 Bobby is called by the NYT 11:00 Why do they only do two performances for a show they pay thousands for?!? 15:00 Art and access 17:00 Performance in the Lindy Hop scene 30:00 So I'm doing the interview... 34:00 The savior of Lindy Hop 41:00 Two additional concerns 51:00 The article 55:00 The least famous dancer of the most famous group 1:00:00 it raised an eyebrow --------------------------------------------------- Welcome to Integrated Rhythm! Two Swing Dancing besties (Chisomo Selemani & Bobby White) navigate race and the Black Experience in the world of Jazz Dance and other Afro-centric social dancing. Our goal is comfortable conversations about uncomfortable things. Our podcast music is by Laurel Ryan & Michelle Stokes, our intro and ad music this week is by Barron Ryan, Laurel Ryan's brother (check out firstofitskind.net, and www.barronryan.com.) "We're Back!" song was improvised by Steffanie AK Schilling.  And, the background drumming is by Bobby White. Find us at your local podcast app, or at: https://anchor.fm/integratedrhythm Please donate to help keep us in business: Patreon: patreoncom/integratedrhythm PayPal: robertwhiteiii@gmail.com Venmo: @bobbyswungover (Where applicable, lease put the note "IR" in it, so that we know it's for the podcast.)  

**Please note: an important life situation has come up that will most likely keep us from being able to do an episode or two in the near future. Please bare with us and enjoy a previous episode for your weekly fix of IR!** This week, a reading of the article, "A Gaze into a Day at the Races" that dives into the background and context of the famous Whitey's Lindy Hoppers dance clip. 0:00 Whitey's Teirs 9:00 About the Clip  13:00 The Circle 17:30 "Right" and "Wrong" 21:30 A Day at the Racists? 31:00 The Smile 38:00 Notes ------------------- Welcome to Integrated Rhythm! Two Swing Dancing besties (Chisomo Selemani & Bobby White) navigate race and the Black Experience in the world of Jazz Dance and other Afro-centric social dancing. Our goal is comfortable conversations about uncomfortable things. Our podcast music is by Laurel Ryan & Michelle Stokes, our intro and ad music this week is by Barron Ryan, Laurel Ryan's brother (check out firstofitskind.net, and www.barronryan.com.) And, the background drumming is by Bobby White. Find us at your local podcast app, or at: https://anchor.fm/integratedrhythm Please donate to help keep us in business: Patreon: patreoncom/integratedrhythm PayPal: robertwhiteiii@gmail.com Venmo: @bobbyswungover (Where applicable, lease put the note "IR" in it, so that we know it's for the podcast.)

"In Focus Finally."   When author and librarian Cynthia Millman first saw Lindy Hop legend Frankie Manning dance in the 1980s, a lot of things about the dance finally came into focus. Little did she know she would end up going on the epic journey of co-writing Frankie’s memoir with him. To celebrate World Lindy Hop Day and Frankie Manning's birthday, we at Integrated Rrhythm Podcast had a great conversation with the author where we discuss the world of 1980s New York Lindy Hop, training under Frankie in the Big Apple Lindy Hoppers, the writing and researching of the autobiography, and her hopes and dreams for the future of Jazz dance research. 0:00 The first time Cynthia met Frankie   13:00 Being trained by Frankie in the Big Apple Lindy Hoppers   21:00 Counting and education   25:00 How the 1980s New York scene was different than the modern scene   38:00 Chisomo's Frankie-miss story   43:00 Current and hopeful future research in Jazz dance   56:00 What made you decide to do Frankie's book and how did creating it go?   1:18:00 Details   -----------------------------------------   Welcome to Integrated Rhythm! Two Swing Dancing besties (Chisomo Selemani & Bobby White) navigate race and the Black Experience in the world of Jazz Dance and other Afro-centric social dancing. Our goal is comfortable conversations about uncomfortable things.  Our podcast music is by Laurel Ryan & Michelle Stokes, our intro and ad music this week is by Barron Ryan, Laurel Ryan's brother (check out firstofitskind.net, and www.barronryan.com.) And, the background drumming is by Bobby White.   Find us at your local podcast app, or at: https://anchor.fm/integratedrhythm    Please donate to help keep us in business:  Patreon: patreoncom/integratedrhythm  PayPal: robertwhiteiii@gmail.com  Venmo: @bobbyswungover   (Where applicable, lease put the note "IR" in it, so that we know it's for the podcast.)

Bobby tells the story of four incredible dancers who were Frankie Manning's partners, and Chisomo and IR fam LAUREL RYAN join in and listen along.   0:00 Frieda Washington & Creative Adventurousness  19:00 Lucille Middleton & Tall Coolness  28:30 Willa Mae Ricker & Fashionable Groundedness  49:30 Ann(e)? Johnson & Powerful Smallness    SOURCES:  "Frankie Manning: Ambassador of Lindy Hop" by Frankie Manning & Cynthia Millman, "Swinging at the Savoy: The Memoir of a Jazz Dancer" by Norma Miller and Evette Jensen, SavoyStyle biographies by Judy Pritchett, and 1930s and 40s Censuses and Death records. "Frankie And His Partners" by Anthony Wheaton via Swing Patrol website. "Willa Mae Ricker, The Patron Saint of Respect for Lindy Hoppers," an article on Swungover. Frankie's Air Step story came from Swing Dance San Diego's YouTube video titled "The First Air Step -- A Talk by Frankie Manning."  -------- Welcome to Integrated Rhythm! Two Swing Dancing besties (Chisomo Selemani & Bobby White) navigate race and the Black Experience in the world of Jazz Dance and other Afro-centric social dancing. Our goal is comfortable conversations about uncomfortable things. Our intro and ad music this week is by Barron Ryan, Laurel Ryan's brother. Check out firstofitskind.net, and www.barronryan.com. Our podcast music is by Laurel Ryan & Michelle Stokes, our "We're back! song" was an improvisation by Steffanie AK Schilling, and the background drumming is by Bobby White. Find us at your local podcast ap, or at: https://anchor.fm/integratedrhythm  Please donate to help keep us in business: Patreon: patreoncom/integratedrhythm PayPal: robertwhiteiii@gmail.com Venmo: @bobbyswungover (Where applicable, lease put the note "IR" in it, so that we know it's for the podcast.)

Another Chisomo & Bobby episode! This week, the parable of the Three Little Black Girls. What would you do? Let us know at Intrhythm@gmail.com 0:00 Three Little Black Girls come up to us in the park… 6:00 "Too woke, Chisomo" 9:30 No one will see our dance if it's not out in the world… 20:00 Crucibles of talent 29:00 Independence vs interdependence

It's a Chisomo & Bobby episode, where they have a friend's talk that asks some questions about how Black culture relates to the dance and teaching, tells one of Bobby's most memorable Frankie Manning stories, and reveals which one of us is "the woman in the doorframe."  0:00 Mentorship & teaching 5:00 LaTasha Barnes: Balboa dancer? 7:30 The Nuances of Cultural Embodiment 11:00 You don't get to erase my lived history 13:00 The woman with her foot in the door 17:00 Of rooms and vantage points 20:00 Bobby goes to a different country & his dad is proud 23:30 Bobby's Adventures in London 25:00 The early 2000s London Dance Scene (Editor's note: It might have changed a lot since then) 33:00 When you're young and scrappy and going on adventures… 35:00 Meeting famous people 40:00 Bobby's Most Memorable Frankie Manning Story --------------------------------------------------------- Welcome to Integrated Rhythm! Two Swing Dancing besties (Chisomo Selemani & Bobby White) navigate race and the Black Experience in the world of Jazz Dance and other Afro-centric social dancing. Our goal is comfortable conversations about uncomfortable things. Our music is by Laurel Ryan & Michelle Stokes, our "We're back! song" was an improvisation by Steffanie AK Schilling, and the background drumming is by Bobby White Find us at your local podcast ap, or at: https://anchor.fm/integratedrhythm  Please donate to help keep us in business: Patreon: patreoncom/integratedrhythm PayPal: robertwhiteiii@gmail.com Venmo: @bobbyswungover (Where applicable, lease put the note "IR" in it, so that we know it's for the podcast.)

A Communal Circle. In this episode, (part 2 of 2) JULIA LOVING discusses her intimate history with Black New York art forms, the dances she runs in Harlem, and a controversial opinion that will make some people in Queens wanna fight. Also, Chisomo, Bobby tackle an important question from Julia. 0:00 Julia's Question 4:00 Laws, acts, amendments, mindset, What are white people doing to change that opinion? 8:00 The knitty-gritty takes place on the local scene 11:00 About Julia's dances in Harlem 13:30 I learned in Harlem 18:30 Chisomo's hope with Integrated Rhythm… 20:00 A conversation across racialized identities 23:00 Appropriation, appreciation, and the need to follow the money 26:00 What Integrated Rhythm means to Julia 27:30 We all need… 35:00 Julia's controversial opinion 39:00 Important connections between Swing & Hip Hop ----------------- Welcome to Integrated Rhythm! Two Swing Dancing besties (Chisomo Selemani & Bobby White) navigate race and the Black Experience in the world of Jazz Dance and other Afro-centric social dancing. Our goal is comfortable conversations about uncomfortable things. Our intro and ad music this week is by Barron Ryan, Laurel Ryan's brother. Check out firstofitskind.net, and www.barronryan.com. Our podcast music is by Laurel Ryan & Michelle Stokes, and the background drumming is by Bobby White Find us at your local podcast ap, or at: https://anchor.fm/integratedrhythm  Please donate to help keep us in business: Patreon: patreoncom/integratedrhythm PayPal: robertwhiteiii@gmail.com Venmo: @bobbyswungover (Where applicable, lease put the note "IR" in it, so that we know it's for the podcast.)

A room with a door... Not just a great thing to have in a instructor contract, it's also a great thing to have in the swing dance scene as a whole. In part 2 of 2, instructor, MC, and Lindy Focus meeting co-host LAUREL RYAN shares with us how the standards of Black Excellence give a warped door for Black instructors to enter the Instructor room, how the swing scene is designed like FaceBook, and how the women's bathroom is the secret to good allyship.       0:00 The standard of Black excellence  5:30 Every bad experience leads to a better rider 11:00 Lindy Hop is a folk dance 19:00 There's a huge difference in how Black men are treated in the scene, and how Black women are treated in the scene 22:00 Promoters and their Black teachers and follower privilege and leader privilege and children 28:00 The threat of marginalized people being edged out 33:00 The intersection of opposing ideas 39:00 How FB and the Swing Scene are designed similarly 45:30 Awkward Allyship 49:00 Women's bathrooms: The secret to Allyship 1:00:00 What do I like about the way that I dance? --------------------- Welcome to Integrated Rhythm! Two Swing Dancing besties (Chisomo Selemani & Bobby White) navigate race and the Black Experience in the world of Jazz Dance and other Afro-centric social dancing. Our goal is comfortable conversations about uncomfortable things. Special in this episode, our starting music is Barron Ryan. All other music is by Laurel Ryan & Michelle Stokes. Find us at your local podcast ap, or at: https://anchor.fm/integratedrhythm  Please donate to help keep us in business: Patreon: patreoncom/integratedrhythm PayPal: robertwhiteiii@gmail.com Venmo: @bobbyswungover (Where applicable, lease put the note "IR" in it, so that we know it's for the podcast.)

A Sprinkle of White Supremacy... In part 1 of 2, instructor, MC, and Lindy Focus meeting co-host LAUREL RYAN shares with us the fascinating tales of learning Lindy Hop, confronting its harmful teaching practices, and how Black people are constantly battling between being undervalued and tokenized.  **Music in this episode by Barron Ryan! Go to barronryan.com and firstofitskind.net to learn more and get his incredible, new rights free album!** 0:00 Laurel grew up surrounded by exceptional people  7:00 How Laurel got into Lindy Hop (in Tulsa, Oklahoma)  17:00 The "path" to international teaching  21:00 When the Black folks made space for Laurel in her home scene  25:00 A trained teacher and creative artist takes a Lindy class...  30:00 Polite gaslighting?  34:00 Lindy classes: "It's not working for enough people"  37:00 Neuro-diverse people are attracted to Swing dancing...  40:00 "I started telling people, I don't want to hear about..."  42:00 The danger of erasing difference in order to make people feel better  45:00 The physical elitism of today's Lindy Hop contests   47:30 Look at the gateway to international instruction  49:00 "The times I have won competitions..." and imposture syndrome --------------------------------------- Welcome to Integrated Rhythm! Two Swing Dancing besties (Chisomo Selemani & Bobby White) navigate race and the Black Experience in the world of Jazz Dance and other Afro-centric social dancing. Our goal is comfortable conversations about uncomfortable things. Our music is by Laurel Ryan & Michelle Stokes, our "We're back! song" was an improvisation by Steffanie AK Schilling, and the background drumming is by Bobby White Find us at your local podcast ap, or at: https://anchor.fm/integratedrhythm  Please donate to help keep us in business: Patreon: patreoncom/integratedrhythm PayPal: robertwhiteiii@gmail.com Venmo: @bobbyswungover (Where applicable, lease put the note "IR" in it, so that we know it's for the podcast.)

Pretend I'm Not Bouncing.    Dancer BRANDON BARKER has his dance passion in three worlds --- the academy of a university where he is currently finishing up a BFA in concert dance, the legendary company of Black American dance Alvin Ailey where he has worked and trained, and the swing scene where he is a Lindy Hopper and Jazz dancer, performer, and teacher. See how those worlds criss-cross and collide in today's episode. 0:00 Brandon breaks down his dancing life for the discussion 6:00 Working with Clyde Wilder 8:00 What's it like being a student in your dance forms compared to each other 14:00 Bobby learns jazz and tap from a Ballerina 16:00 Performance and competitions background approaches 20:00 The art of throwing yourself into things 24:00 What's it like teaching those in the swing scene, especially with your background in concert dance training? 35:00 What are some of the things its hard to get concert dancers to do in jazz dance movement? 37:00 What happens when Hip Hop and House dancers swing? 45:00 Being a Choreography-trained dancer, what was it like when you started trying out improvisation?    54:00 In all your dance places, are you treated differently? Anything you want to share about being a Black Man in those spaces? ----------------------- Welcome to Integrated Rhythm! Two Swing Dancing besties (Chisomo Selemani & Bobby White) navigate race and the Black Experience in the world of Jazz Dance and other Afro-centric social dancing. Our goal is comfortable conversations about uncomfortable things. Our music is by Laurel Ryan & Michelle Stokes, and the background drumming is by Bobby White Find us at your local podcast ap, or at: https://anchor.fm/integratedrhythm  Please donate to help keep us in business: Patreon: patreoncom/integratedrhythm PayPal: robertwhiteiii@gmail.com (Where applicable, lease put the note "IR" in it, so that we know it's for the podcast.) Venmo: @bobbyswungover (Where applicable, lease put the note "IR" in it, so that we know it's for the podcast.)

It's a Chisomo & Bobby episode, where we discuss a few topics.   0:00 A possible guest politely declined to be on our show, and we talk about it. It's all good, but we wanted to explore some things that brings up.   12:30 The art of not talking over Follower teachers, and what that tells us about inclusion.   28:30 We discuss Odysseus Bailer's great "How to Apologize" post, recently published on his professional FB page. ---------------- Welcome to Integrated Rhythm! Two Swing Dancing besties (Chisomo Selemani & Bobby White) navigate race and the Black Experience in the world of Jazz Dance and other Afro-centric social dancing. Our goal is comfortable conversations about uncomfortable things.  Our music is by Laurel Ryan & Michelle Stokes.   Find us at your local podcast app, or at: https://anchor.fm/integratedrhythm    Please donate to help keep us in business:   Patreon: patreoncom/integratedrhythm   PayPal: robertwhiteiii@gmail.com   Venmo: @bobbyswungover    (Where applicable, lease put the note "IR" in it, so that we know it's for the podcast.)