Mill House Podcast

Whit Fosburgh has spent nearly four decades fighting for fish, wildlife, and the wild places that sustain them. After 15 years with Trout Unlimited and 14 years as President and CEO of the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership, Fosburgh turned his attention toward what he believes is one of the most overlooked threats facing America’s oceans: the industrial harvest of forage fish. He is now the founder and Executive Director of the Forage Fish Campaign, an organization working to protect menhaden, herring, mackerel, and the small fish that form the foundation of the marine food chain. In this episode, Whit sits down with us to explain why menhaden may be among the most important fish in the sea, the enormous industrial reduction fishery operating in American waters, and the consequences the removal of these fish can have on everything from striped bass and tarpon to ospreys, marine mammals, recreational anglers, and coastal communities. We also dive into the foreign ownership behind portions of the industry, the politics and science surrounding menhaden management, and why protecting the smallest fish in the ocean may ultimately determine the future of the biggest ones we love to chase. This is, without question, one of the most important podcasts we have recorded. What is actually taking place in our waters is absolutely mind-blowing, and the scale of it is something every angler and anyone who cares about the health of our oceans should understand. We encourage everyone to pay close attention to this issue, learn what is happening, and take action through the Forage Fish Campaign. Learn more and get involved at ForageFishCampaign.org.

Mike Dawes has spent more than three decades chasing fish across the globe, building a life around the places, people, and experiences that make fly fishing far more than a sport. Raised in a family steeped in the tradition, Mike caught his first trout on a fly at just five years old. His grandfather helped establish the legendary Deep Water Cay Bonefishing Club in the Bahamas, introducing Mike early to the world of saltwater fly fishing and planting the seeds for a lifetime of exploration. After earning his MBA, Mike traded the conventional career path for a life in the fishing business. He joined WorldCast Anglers in Jackson Hole in 2001, eventually becoming its president and helping build its reputation as a premier outfitter and international fishing-travel operation. Today, he is the managing partner of Westbank Anglers in Jackson, Wyoming. Though he fishes for everything from trout to exotic tropical species, permit have become his great obsession. Mike has won the Del Brown Permit Tournament and captured the March Merkin twice — an extraordinary record in one of fly fishing’s most demanding pursuits. His travels have taken him from the flats of Mexico, Cuba, and the Bahamas to the remote waters of St. Brandon’s Atoll in the Indian Ocean, where he has pursued Indo-Pacific permit and other remarkable species. Beyond the fishing, Mike is deeply committed to conservation and protecting the watersheds that sustain the sport. Through his podcast, Permit to Think, he explores the people, experiences, and unexpected lessons that emerge from a life spent traveling the world with a fly rod in hand.

Mike Lawson is a legend of the Henry’s Fork—and one of the men who helped shape modern fly fishing in the American West. A fourth-generation Idahoan, Lawson grew up fishing the Henry’s Fork and began his professional fly-fishing career in the early 1970s while working as a schoolteacher and tying flies commercially with his wife, Sheralee. He later guided in West Yellowstone before the two founded Henry’s Fork Anglers in 1976, building what would become one of the most respected fly-fishing operations in the country. For more than five decades, Lawson has been a guide, outfitter, fly tier, author, teacher, and tireless advocate for the waters he calls home. He became a contract fly tier for Umpqua Feather Merchants in 1979, and his patterns have been sold in fly shops around the world. His books, including Fly Fishing the Henry’s Fork and Spring Creeks, helped generations of anglers understand the intricate hatches, technical trout, and demanding presentation required to fish some of the West’s most challenging waters. He has also written extensively for publications including Fly Fisherman and served as a contributing editor. Beyond fishing, Lawson has devoted much of his life to conservation. He was a founding member of the Henry’s Fork Foundation and has been deeply involved in protecting the river and its surrounding lands. He has also been a longtime member and supporter of Trout Unlimited, the Federation of Fly Fishers, and other conservation organizations. Lawson’s legacy ultimately extends beyond the fish he has caught or the flies he has tied. For generations of anglers, he has been a teacher, steward, and ambassador for the Henry’s Fork—a river that has become synonymous with his name.

Boots Allen is a third-generation fly-fishing guide, tournament angler, writer, fly designer, and one of the longtime stewards of the rivers around Jackson Hole, Wyoming. Born and raised in the valley, Boots grew up immersed in a family whose name is woven into the history of fly fishing in the region. His grandfather, Leonard “Boots” Allen, was one of the early guides and outfitters in Jackson Hole, securing permits to guide the waters of the Greater Yellowstone area in the 1940s. His father, Joe Allen, continued that tradition and became known for his innovative fly patterns, including the famous Double Humpy. Boots began guiding alongside his father and uncle while still in high school. More than three decades later, he has spent hundreds of days each year on the water, guiding throughout Wyoming and Idaho while pursuing trout and other species around the world. His travels have taken him from the Snake River to Argentina, Mongolia, Kazakhstan, British Columbia, Belize, the Bahamas, and beyond. His accomplishments on the water are equally impressive. Boots is a three-time high-scoring guide in the Jackson Hole One-Fly Contest and received the prestigious Carmichael-Cohen Memorial Guide Award in 2007. He has also become a respected fly designer, developing patterns for Umpqua Feather Merchants and Orvis, while writing extensively about the sport. He is the author of four books, including Snake River Fly Fishing, Modern Trout Fishing, Snake River Flies, and Finding Trout in All Conditions. Perhaps most interestingly, Boots once appeared headed toward a career in academia, earning advanced degrees and pursuing work in community development and tourism. Instead, he ultimately chose the river. Today, he continues the Allen family legacy while writing, teaching, guiding, creating flies, and sharing the knowledge accumulated through a lifetime on the water. For Boots Allen, fishing isn't simply a profession passed down through three generations. It is a family history, a craft, and a way of life.

Baker Bishop is an avid fly fisherman, surfer, husband, father, and mentor whose life has been shaped by a lifelong connection to the water. He picked up a fly rod at just ten years old, taught by his mother, who passed down the skills, traditions, and passion she had learned from her grandfather—a bamboo-rod builder and lifelong angler. What began as a childhood passion has grown into a way of life. In the mid-2000s, Baker began fishing some of the biggest tarpon tournaments in the Florida Keys alongside renowned guides Kris Suplee, Brian Helms, Robert Klein, and eventually Craig Brewer & Alonzo Sotillo. In 2009 and 2010, Baker and guide Brian Helms won the Golden Fly Tarpon Tournament, establishing him as a formidable competitor among the country’s top tarpon anglers. Baker also served as chairman of the Don Hawley Tarpon Tournament for six years before stepping down in 2024. Baker’s journey, however, extends far beyond the water. After overcoming addiction, he developed a deep appreciation for health, happiness, and living with purpose. Today, that perspective shapes the way he approaches life, family, fishing, and the people he mentors. For Baker, time on the water is about more than the pursuit of fish—it is about connection, gratitude, challenge, and being fully present. Whether chasing tarpon across the flats, spending time with his family, or helping another person find their way, Baker brings a perspective forged through both triumph and adversity. His story is ultimately one of passion, resilience, and the pursuit of a life well lived.