Meikles & Dimes

Tal Ben-Shahar is an academic, author, speaker, teacher and co-founder of the Happiness Studies Academy. His classes on Positive Psychology and Leadership were among the largest courses in Harvard’s history, and he teaches, speaks, and consults around the world, to the general public, governments, Fortune 500 companies, and educational institutions. Tal’s personal mission statement is “to make the world a better place through wholebeing education” and his internationally best-selling books have been translated into more than 25 languages. Tal has been featured on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart, NBC, FOX, CNN, and 60 Minutes among others. Tal earned both his BA and PHD from Harvard. In this episode we discuss the following: Tal flips a common assumption on it’s head: happiness doesn’t start with feeling good; it starts with giving ourselves permission to feel bad. Painful emotions aren’t a bug in the system. They’re proof that we’re alive. The mistake we make is treating emotions as moral verdicts rather than facts of nature, and then trying to suppress what we feel. The key is to accept what we’re feeling and then chose to act in line with our values. The real work isn’t learning these ideas. It’s applying them, and for that reason Tal wears a bracelet to help him bridge the knowing / doing gap. In summary, to be happy, remember to let yourself feel bad. And then ACT.

Maya Shankar is a cognitive scientist and the creator, executive producer, and host of the podcast, A Slight Change of Plans, which Apple awarded as the Best Show of the Year in 2021. Maya was a Senior Advisor in the Obama White House, where she founded and served as Chair of the White House Behavioral Science Team. She also served as the first Behavioral Science Advisor to the United Nations, and as a core member of Pete Buttigieg’s debate preparation team during his 2020 presidential run. Maya has a postdoctoral fellowship in cognitive neuroscience from Stanford, a Ph.D. in cognitive psychology from Oxford on a Rhodes Scholarship, and a B.A. from Yale. She's been profiled by The New Yorker and been the featured guest on NPR's All Things Considered, Freakonomics, and Hidden Brain. She's also a graduate of the Juilliard School of Music's pre-college program. And most recently, Maya is the author of the book, The Other Side of Change. In this episode we discuss the following: I loved Maya’s insight about identity. When she injured her finger and could no longer play the violin, she was devastated because she identified as a violinist. But when she looked more broadly at the motivations that drove her, she realized that connection, growth, care, and contribution were underlying motivations. And violin wasn’t the only way to accomplish her ultimate goals. By anchoring our identity to deeper motivations rather than specific roles or activities, we create a more resilient sense of self while also creating more opportunities for us to achieve our goals.

Josh Foster is an award-winning independent writer, thinker, and farmer in Rigby, Idaho. He is the author of The Last Good Snow Hunt (2024), The Clean Package: A Pioneer Assemblage (2023), and The Crown Package: A Personal Anthology (2022). Josh earned a PHD in literature and creative writing from the University of Houston, a master’s of fine arts degree in fiction and nonfiction from the University of Arizona, and an undergraduate degree in English from BYU Idaho. In between his master’s degree and PhD, Josh was selected as a Stegner Fellow at Stanford University, one of the most prestigious creative writing fellowships in the world. Josh also earned a minor in Spanish and studied at the University of Guadalajara. In his almost two-decade writing and publishing career, Josh has served in key editorial positions with notable magazines such as Terrain.org, DIAGRAM, and Gulf Coast. Josh now co-operates the creative cooperative and press FOSTER LITERARY with his wife, the poet Georgia Pearle Foster. In this follow up interview with Josh (see Episode 99 for our first interview) we discuss the following: We covered a lot of ground with Josh, which is always great because he’s so full of insight. First the farm, as a metaphor for life. Raising a successful crop each year requires daily blood, sweat, and tears. But even when the uncontrollable weather actually cooperates, markets can suddenly change. It’s a never ending struggle. But farmers just keep showing up every day. Water is the lifeblood of the farm, and it was fun to hear how Josh is engaging with community members and policy makers to figure out how to allocate water effectively, and potentially grow the supply. And I look forward to reading his upcoming book on water. I also look forward to reading Georgia and Josh’s book, Other People’s Parties. As Josh said, he often finds himself at the last moment of things and I’m inspired by how he wants to memorialize and preserve the stories that are fleeting. I’m especially excited to both watch the film Bozwreck and read Josh’s novel on his cousin Nate Bozung. After the interview, Josh sent me a brief clip of the film, and I was blown away by the beauty and style of the film. I always love talking to Josh because he teaches me about life and humanity. But he also inspires me. Whenever we create things, we never know the impact they may have. But like the farmer, we just keep showing up every day. And even though the world is confusing, violent, and unfair, let’s be good to each other, help each other, and be better.

David Beck is the principal of Granite Connection High School in South Salt Lake, Utah. He has served as a teacher at Pleasant Grove High School, and Assistant Principal at both Cyprus High School and Granger High School in Utah. David earned his undergraduate and graduate degrees from BYU. In this episode we discuss the following: When one of David’s students was falling asleep in class, a pep talk was the last thing she needed—she was working until 1:00 a.m. and catching a 6:30 a.m. bus just to get to school. What she needed was love, respect, and repeated check-ins over time. Even when students have especially difficult lives, the answer isn’t to lower expectations, but to raise support through mentorship, consistency, interventions, and relationships. Often, what people need most isn’t money, but guidance—someone to help them navigate systems and help them believe a different future is possible. By applying the Heath Brothers’ Power of Moments framework and intentionally designing positive, celebratory experiences, the school massively increased graduation rates. In the end, it all comes down to relationships.

Peter Schein is co-author of the worldwide bestseller, Humble Inquiry: The Gentle Art of Asking Instead of Telling. Together with his father Edgar Schein, one of the founders of organizational psychology, Peter has co-written six books, including Humble Leadership and Career Anchors Reimagined. Peter holds degrees from Stanford, Northwestern and USC.  In this episode we discuss the following: Humble Inquiry is a philosophy about how to get along, gather information, and build relationships. The key is to ask people questions we don’t know the answer to. If we tell people what to do, or guide them with questions we already know the answer to, we are telling them that we know best. But by asking people questions we don’t know the answer to, we communicate genuine curiosity while also gathering information that we don’t currently possess. Remember to ask people questions that we don’t know the answer to. 

Dorie Clark is an executive education professor at Duke University’s Fuqua School of Business and Columbia Business School, and is the bestselling author of several books, including The Long Game and Stand Out. A frequent Harvard Business Review contributor, she has consulted for leading organizations including Google, Microsoft, and the World Bank. Dorie is former presidential campaign spokeswoman, an award-winning journalist, and a four-time Thinkers50 honoree who was named the world’s top communication coach by the Marshall Goldsmith Leading Global Coaches Awards. Dorie holds degrees from Smith College and Harvard Divinity School. In this episode we discuss the following: While Dorie was working grueling hours on the campaign trail for low pay, her boss was earning 10 times her monthly salary in one hour speeches—and that sparked Dorie’s curiosity. She realized that the massive pay difference came down to scale. Even if Broadway actors are just as talented as Hollywood actors, the Hollywood actors reach millions more people, thus commanding a premium. Dorie also saw that her boss had earned trust of other high status people who vouched for him. By building up social proof through brand affiliations, media appearances, and content creation, we make it easier for people to trust us. And we can also increase our scale. 

Mike Baer is an award-winning business professor at Arizona State University, where he researches trust, justice, and impression management. Mike has published his research in top academic journals, including the Academy of Management Journal, Journal of Applied Psychology, and Personnel Psychology, and Mike is currently the Editor-in-Chief at one of the field's top journals—Organizational Behavior and Human Decision Processes.  Mike’s research has been covered by media outlets such as Harvard Business Review, Financial Times, PBS, NPR, Business Insider, Men's Health, and New York Magazine among others. Prior to joining academia, Mike worked in the construction industry, at Hewlett Packard's Executive Leadership Development group, and in publishing and online education. He earned his undergraduate and graduate degrees from BYU, and his PHD from the University of Georgia. In this episode we discuss the following: Trust is both a gift and a burden. When we trust others, we can increase their pride and opportunities but can also overload them with responsibilities and pressure. Leaders routinely overload their most trusted people without taking anything off their plates, while under-investing in newer employees who could grow with smaller tasks. Trust shapes how we interpret behavior: trusted employees get the benefit of the doubt; less-trusted ones receive harsh judgments for the same mistakes, which can make early impressions disproportionately powerful. When people are forming those early impressions and deciding whether to trust us, they are thinking about three things: Are we competent? Do we care about them? Do we have good values? So if we do our job well and help other people without being asked, we will tend to make a good impression. About 25% of employees don’t actually want more trust—they want stability, not responsibility.

Sébastien Page is the Chief Investment Officer at T. Rowe Price, one of the world’s largest investment management firms. Sebastien oversees a team of investment professionals who manage more than $500 billion in assets, and he rose from a non-English-speaking intern to the C-suite. Sébastien is also the author of the book, The Psychology of Leadership.   In this episode we discuss the following: For the sports psychologist and 40-time national handball champ Daniel Zimet, his best match ever was a loss. Roger Federer, one of the greatest tennis players of all time, lost nearly half the points in his career. Outcomes are noisy, and are only loose signals of decision quality. True peak performance, whether in sports, investing, or life, isn’t always about winning. It’s about a relentless focus on the process. At the highest levels, listening beats speaking, strategic patience often beats knee-jerk decisiveness, and the courage to quit can matter more than blind persistence. None of this matters if we’re running on empty. The foundation of sustained excellence is sleep, diet, and exercise.

Ian Williamson is dean of The UC Irvine Paul Merage School of Business. Prior to joining the Merage School, he served as pro vice-chancellor and dean of commerce at the Wellington School of Business and Government at Victoria University of Wellington, New Zealand. Ian has also served as a faculty member in business schools in Australia, Switzerland, and Indonesia. Ian is a globally recognized expert in the area of human resource management and his research has been published in leading academic journals and covered by leading media outlets across the world. Ian received his PhD from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and a bachelor’s degree in business from Miami University. In this episode we discuss the following: Ian sees himself as a steward, making decisions for the person who comes after him, recognizing that he’s caring for something that existed long before him and will continue long after him. What a powerful example of long-term thinking Ian encountered with the Māori leaders, who asked, "How will this decision affect our great-grandchildren?’” Not all leadership looks the same, and it’s perfectly fine for some leaders to focus on the short term. But the key is being intentional about what our role demands and what kind of leader we want to be.

Elyce Arons is a cofounder of Kate Spade and the cofounder and CEO of Frances Valentine. Elyce grew up on a cattle farm in Kansas before attending the University of Kansas where she met her lifelong best friend, Katy Brosnahan. Together they helped launch the multibillion-dollar bag company Kate Spade, with Katy’s eventual husband Andy Spade and Pamela Bell. Elyce is also the author of the book, We Might Just Make it After All.  In this episode we discuss the following:  The great advice Elyce gave about the value of writing thank you notes. Not only has Elyce written countless thank you notes, but also she has helped countless others write thank you notes through her stationery line at Kate Spade. After this interview with Elyce, I ordered a box of thank you notes and a pack of stamps. I first wrote a note to thank my wife Keshia for being so wonderful. And then I wrote a note to Elyce, thanking her for coming on the podcast. And just like that, I’m on track for 25 notes in six months when I check back in with Elyce. I encourage all of you to follow Elyce’s advice to write thank you notes to people you meet with. By doing so, you will make others’ lives better.

Steph Wagner is the National Director of Women & Wealth at Northern Trust, where she leads the firm’s Elevating Women platform focused on building financial literacy. She is the author of the book, Fly!: A Woman's Guide to Financial Freedom and Building a Life You Love, and her insights have been featured in The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, and Yahoo Finance, among others.   In this episode we discuss the following: When Steph went through her horrific divorce, she realized that she had abdicated her personal financial independence, even though she was a sophisticated corporate finance professional. Even if we’re in a partnership, we can be proactive in taking responsibility for our finances. That includes addressing the emotional and psychological aspects of money matters. Communicating openly about personal finance. Using frameworks that help us achieve our goals. And starting now, because time is our greatest ally.

Claude Silver is the Chief Heart Officer at VaynerX and partners with CEO Gary Vaynerchuk to drive their success. Claude has earned Campaign US's Female Frontier Award and AdWeek's Changing the Game Award and is a sought after speaker at companies including Meta, Google, US Government agencies, and the US Armed Forces. She has been featured in The New York Times, Forbes, and The Wall Street Journal, and she is the author of the book, “Be Yourself at Work.” I hope you enjoy learning from Claude Silver today. In this episode we discuss the following: Claude repeatedly found herself in unhealthy, codependent relationships, and it wasn’t until  her brother told her that she was living in a pretty prison, followed by a therapist insisting she attend Codependents Anonymous, that Claude began to understand the pattern: she was losing herself by centering her identity around others. Through six years in Codependence Anonymous, Claude learned some powerful lessons: Empathy needs boundaries. You can’t change others—only yourself. We each have the agency to steer our own life. It’s okay to take up space and be big in the room. We don’t have to shrink so someone else can feel better.

Muriel Wilkins is founder and CEO of Paravis Partners and advisor and coach to C-suite executives. She is also the author of Leadership Unblocked and host of the Harvard Business Review podcast Coaching Real Leaders.  In this episode we discuss the following: What often holds us back as leaders isn’t the ability to grasp some new tactic. Rather it’s the beliefs we hold about ourselves. Many of the mindsets that helped us succeed early on—like needing to be involved in every detail, always being right, or not being willing to make a mistake—can hold us back later. Overcoming our limiting beliefs starts with curiosity: noticing when we’re frustrated or blocked, asking what belief might be driving that feeling, and challenging whether it’s still true.

Bryan Porter is launching an AI company after serving as a Portfolio Manager at the hedge fund MIG Capital. Earlier in his career, he worked at The Carlyle Group and Goldman Sachs, and earned his MBA from Stanford. But before all of that, Bryan was working at McDonald’s and sleeping on couches, in closets, and in cars. In Episode 138 of this podcast, Bryan shares the incredible, inspirational story of how he pulled himself out of his tailspin. And in that episode, we touched briefly on how Bryan became obsessed with health and fitness. In today’s episode, we take a deep dive into health and fitness. One reason for Bryan’s outlier success is his outlier ability to learn and apply. Over the past three decades, he’s studied and implemented the best science on health and fitness in his own life, and today he shares those insights. While this podcast shouldn’t be relied on for medical advice, I find Bryan’s approach both fascinating and inspiring. I’ll be listening to this episode over and again—and it will also be required listening for my kids. And if you’re like me, and want to keep learning from Bryan Porter, check out his website: bryan-porter.com. In this episode we discuss the basics of health including: Sleep: Good sleep is the fastest way to feel better and have more mental clarity.  Min get 7 hours, ideally 8. If you’re getting less than 6 you’re reducing the quality and quantity of your life. Exercise 6 days a week: min 45 min brisk walk daily, break up sitting with 10 body squats every 45 mins – nobody is too busy for that, strength 2x per week, get to max heart rate 1x per week. Really helpful to have an event on the calendar that you’re working toward. Eat well: min 1 gram of protein per pound of weight. Lots of fiber. Healthy fat: olive and fish oil. Reverse osmosis filtered water + electrolytes.  But this summary is just the tip of the iceberg. In this episode, Bryan shares 100s of great insights and practical tips for how to be more healthy...How To Make Ourselves Hard to Kill. 

Judd Kessler is a Professor of Business Economics and Public Policy at the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania. A leading scholar of market design, he was named one of Forbes’ 30 Under 30 for his groundbreaking work on organ allocation and received the Vernon L. Smith Ascending Scholar Prize for his pioneering research. His insights have been featured in The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, Harvard Business Review, and on Hidden Brain and Freakonomics. With degrees from Harvard and Cambridge, Judd studies the hidden markets that shape our lives and how we can navigate them more effectively. He is also the author of the book, Lucky be Design. In this episode we discuss the following: The most common way to allocate scarce resources is through pricing. But other mechanisms exist: hidden markets. And by staying alert for these hidden markets, we can increase our luck. One of the most common hidden markets is the race: first come, first serve. In Judd’s case, when he realized that demand was going to outstrip supply for his child’s after school program, he recognized he was in a race, so he made sure to sign up right when registration opened. And he increased his luck. The lottery is another hidden market. If four friends wanted to attend Taylor Swift’s Eras Tour, they increase their luck by each entering the lottery for four tickets each. Hunters increase their luck by entering the lottery in years when they’re not able to hunt. And people needing organ transplants increase their luck when they sign up through multiple transplant centers.  To get lucky in the dating app world, people can signal that they are worth investing in.  And then I loved Judd’s insight on settling for silver. Whether we’re trying to get lucky in college admissions, with restaurant reservations, or even in the dating market, we can increase our luck by pursuing a more attainable, less competitive option. And in many cases the silver turns out to be more desirable than the gold.

Sahil Bloom is a writer, investor, and former collegiate athlete who is the author of the New York Times bestseller The 5 Types of Wealth. He earned his undergraduate degree in Economics & Sociology and a master’s in public policy from Stanford, where he also played baseball. He also leads SRB Holdings and SRB Ventures, where he invests in early-stage companies. And Sahil has amassed a massive following online, with over 800,000 subscribers to his newsletter and more than 1 million followers on X. In this episode we discuss the following: We can’t truly feel successful until we define what success means for ourselves. If we look at the scorecard that is handed to us, which consists of accumulating money, status, titles, and promotions, we will always feel like we need to reach for more, a trap made worse by the arrival fallacy.  Our ability to achieve our goals is influenced by our surroundings. The goal to live a simple life is much easier to accomplish in small town America than New York, where Sahil sees extraordinarily rich people spend their time figuring out ways to impress even more extraordinarily rich people. To help us reveal how much our decisions are influenced by external validation, we can ask ourself some version of the question, “Do I really want this job, or do I want other people to see me having this job?” True success is built on five types of wealth (time, social, mental, physical and financial) rather than chasing society’s default measures. 

Admiral James Stavridis is a 4-Star Navy Admiral who served as Supreme Allied Commander of NATO. Following his military career, he served as Dean of the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy at Tufts University. Currently he serves as Partner and Vice Chairman of The Carlyle Group, one of the world’s largest private equity firms. He also serves as Chair of the Board of Trustees of the Rockefeller Foundation. In this episode we discuss the following: To be a great leader, you have to be in shape. Leaders need energy and health, and sleep is a weapon. If you’re not rested, you’re not ready for battle. Admiral Stavridis was Captain of a destroyer that failed inspection, it was his peers that had his back and saved him that day. Invest in our peer relationships because they will be honest with us and be unafraid to reach out. Great leaders are great readers. To be a reader is to lead a thousand lives. Every book is a simulator, whether we’re learning resilience from The Old Man and the Sea or leadership from the Godfather. Since conducting this interview, I have been reading The Admiral’s Bookshelf, and I love learning the lessons he learned from his top 25 books. And because of this conversation I created my own bookshelf of the 25 books that have most influenced me. I’ve pasted these in the show notes and on my website.   The Admiral’s final lesson is timeless. Be humble.  And inspired by The Admiral's Bookshelf, I created my own bookshelf. Nate Meikle’s Bookshelf The Book of Mormon & Bible Taught me about Jesus Christ, love, repentance, forgiveness, and endurance Great Expectations by Charles Dickens Reminds me to avoid the superficial Tuesdays with Morrie by Mitch Albom Motivated me to become a professor Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki The first book to get me excited about personal finance, one of the most important, underappreciated topics IMO. A Man for All Seasons by Robert Bolt Motivates me to be honest in all things How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie Improved my communication skills dramatically Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy Warns me of the dangers of infidelity Jane Eyre by Charlotte Bronte Motivates me to live a life of integrity My Personal Best by John Wooden Taught me about servant leadership and to treat friendship like a fine art The Black Swan by Nassim Taleb Made me realize the importance of long tail events Jim Trelease Read-Aloud Handbook by Jim Trelease Motivated me to teach my daughter to read at age 2, read tens of thousands of books to her (and our subsequent 3 children), and ultimately write my own book (Little Miss) about how to inspire children to love reading Made to Stick by Chip and Dan Heath Taught me the importance of storytelling and how to tell great stories The Wise Heart by Jack Kornfield Taught me about Buddhism, and the three causes of human suffering (Grasping, Aversion, Delusion) A Guide to the Good Life by William Irvine Taught me about Stoic Philosophy and the value of negative visualization and wanting the things we have The Coddling of the American Mind by Greg Lukianoff and Jonathan Haidt Taught me to not coddle my children and the dangers of cognitive distortions (and the value of cognitive behavioral therapy) The Singularity is Near by Ray Kurzweill (published in 2005) Made me realize that AI is likely the most important invention ever, and persuaded me that Artificial General Intelligence will arrive during my lifetime Poor Charlie’s Almanack, by Charlie Munger The greatest collection of wisdom I’ve ever come across related to investing (specifically) and decision making (generally) Thinking In Bets by Annie Duke Taught me about the dangers of resulting / outcome bias (judging a decision by the outcome rather than the process) Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss Taught me the importance of seeing a negotiation from the other person’s point of view, and constantly showing them that you understand their position (by labeling, mirroring, and using an accusations audit) Elon Musk by Walter Isaacson Taught me about elite ambition, determination, and focus Endurance by Alfred Lansing Taught me about unflinching leadership Good Energy by Casey Means Persuaded me to eliminate processed foods and exercise 5-6 days per week Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card Reminds me how capable children are Beneath a Scarlet Sky by Mark Sullivan Inspires me to be courageous The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas Adams Reminds me to try to laugh every day, in every class, in every conversation

Scott D. Anthony is a clinical professor at Dartmouth’s Tuck School of Business where he researches and teaches about disruption. Scott previously spent more than 20 years at Innosight, a consultancy founded by Harvard Business School professor Clayton Christensen, serving as Innosight’s elected managing partner. Scott has lived in the UK and Singapore, held board roles at public and private companies, given keynote addresses on six continents, and worked with CEOs at numerous global organizations. Thinkers50 named Scott one of the world’s most influential and innovative thinkers. And Scott recently published his 9th book, called Epic Disruptions. In this episode we discuss the following: Scott’s key insight that every innovation has heroes, plural. While Julia Child is one of the most well-known chefs, her first cookbook had two additional coauthors. Even Scott’s book has multiple heroes, as it was his publisher that suggested the topic. Scott’s insight on the shadow of innovation. Questioning the status quo and innovating can create winners and losers. Scott’s advice that if we want to get better at innovation, we need to find ways to get to intersections. Attend trade shows in different industries, read magazines from different fields, and meet with people from all over the world. 

Margaret Andrews teaches a variety of leadership courses and professional and executive programs at Harvard University and is the founder of the MYLO Center, a leadership development firm. Her MYLO course (Manage Yourself to Lead Others) has had a wait list every time it’s been taught for over a decade and has become the most popular professional development program at Harvard. And Margaret has now turned her course into a book titled: Manage Yourself to Lead Others. Margaret earned her undergraduate degree from Cal Berkeley and her graduate degree from MIT. In this episode we discuss the following: When Margaret’s boss told her that she wasn’t self-aware, she made a change. She learned more about herself and others—and since then, she has been teaching leaders to do the same. Margaret helps leaders by asking questions such as: “Who’s thinking has influenced your life?” “What are your core values?” and “What type of leader would you like to become?” Answering these questions helps leaders see where they’re at and where they want to go. And then it takes thoughtfulness and intentionality to become the leaders they want to be. We have to understand and manage ourselves if we want to understand and lead others.

Mark C. Crowley is a bestselling author and leadership expert. With twenty-five years in the competitive financial services industry, he rose to national roles, earning Leader of the Year for his heart-centered approach. His book Lead from the Heart, challenges conventional management practices that undermine employee success. In Mark’s latest book, The Power of Employee Well-Being, he emphasizes that thriving teams drive organizational success. Mark’s Lead From the Heart Podcast is ranked in the top 2 percent globally, reaching 175+ countries. Mark is also a sought-after speaker, Fast Company contributor, and organizational culture consultant shaping modern workplaces. In this episode we discuss the following: I love Mark’s message, that the best leaders lead from the heart. They care about people, they support people, they trust people, and they have their best interest at heart. I thought Mark made a really interesting point that we admire coaches who show that they love their players. But the conventional business leaders shy away from this type of heart-led leadership. When we think about the best leaders we know, the ones who we’ll run through a brick wall for, they’re the ones who truly love us. The best leaders lead from the heart.