Listen, Learn & Love Hosted by Richard Ostler

My friends Rhonda Monson (married mother of three, recently returned senior missionary, LGBTQIA ally, therapist, life coach, and retreat facilitator) and Dakota Moses (gay, age 30, married to his husband Tyree for 8+ years, deeply spiritual) join us to share their story. Dakota starts and shares with us his journey being gay and LDS (and out before the age of 12) to his parents and his local leaders. Dakota talks about how he was not “permitted to be himself, or even be” and painful church experiences along the way. Dakota talks about doing everything he could to serve a mission but how that dream eventually shifted—and the deep spiritual impressions along the way. Rhonda (whose former husband is gay) talks about her love and support of Dakota and how she is both an active Latter-day Saint and loves the LGBTQIA people in her life. She talks about her wonderful son Dakota and his husband Tyree and her love of them, the good men they are, and keeping the family circle together. They talk about a new podcast they have started together called “I’ll Walk With You”. Please check out and share their podcast. Thank you, Rhonda and Dakota, for being on the podcast. You two inspire me. Thanks for making this world a better place. Honored to have you on the podcast! Links: I’ll Walk With You Podcast: https://illwalkwithyou.buzzsprout.com/2572731 Rhonda’s Therapy Practice: https://yourjourneyservices.com/

** This podcast talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat 988 ** My friend Gordon Laws joins us to talk about supporting Dave and Kimi Martin when they lost their transgender son Levi to suicide in Dec 2022. Gordon talks about Levi—a bright, capable, curious young man—and the difficult journey he walked having Swyer Syndrome and being transgender. Gordon talks about the valiant efforts of Dave and Kimi to support their son. Gordon talks about the immediate days after Levi died and his role to minister to the Martin family—including writing his obituary and eulogy. Gordon talks about ministering principles to support others in their time of crisis/need—principles that help us all do better. Gordon talks about how the Savior ministers to those on the margins and invites us to better understand, love, and support transgender people. Thank you, Gordon for being on the podcast. I learned so much from you. I encourage everyone to listen to and share this episode. Levi’s Eulogy: https://www.instagram.com/p/CqI2JAKpZWJ/ Sanctuary Documentary: https://sanctuarydoc.com/ Levi’s Obituary: https://www.d-mfh.com/obituary/Levi-Martin Episode 631 (David and Kimi Martin): https://soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-631-dave-and-kimi-martin-transgender-son Gordon's Irrentum Article (fictional story of Levi's premortal interview with God): https://irreantum.associationmormonletters.org/_20-1-i-can-take-or-leave-it/

My friend Stephanie Roach—who is married mother of two special needs children age 24 (daughter) and age 22 (son)—joins us to share how we can better support friends and family members with specific needs. In the episode, Stephanie talks about the following: 1. Historical treatment of individuals with special needs 2. Geraldo Rivera’s documentary 3. Improved laws and understanding—often led by special needs folks 4. Utah Parent Center—great resource 5. Insights and examples on how we can do better 6. Suggestions from her daughter I learned so much from Stephanie about how to better support the special needs people in my life—I wish I had listened to this episode decades ago. Stephanie is also the person who suggested the name of our podcast “Listen, Learn and Love” about 8 years ago. I will be forever grateful to Stephanie for her help. Thank you, Stephanie, for coming on the podcast. Your family is awesome. I encourage everyone to listen and share this episode. Links: Utah Parent Center: https://utahparentcenter.org/

My friend Alex Cutini joins us to share his story: Alex Cutini grew up Catholic in Brazil, sensing early on that he was different from the other boys. At 18, his search for meaning led him to join the LDS Church, serve a mission a year later in Porto Alegre, Brazil, and eventually move to the United States to graduate from BYU-Idaho. Beneath the surface, the strain of hiding who he was grew into profound depression and moments of suicidal ideation. Coming out meant stepping away from the church and facing the heartbreak of family members who struggled to accept him. Yet alongside that pain came grace: a deep, enduring love with his husband Matt, now married for ten years, and unexpected, unwavering support from his mission president and the missionary and family who baptized him. As both of their families slowly learned how to love more fully, Alex found his way forward—toward healing, purpose, and ultimately becoming the CEO of Encircle, where his story now helps save lives. Alex then shares the story of Encircle, now serving communities through five locations across Utah. He honors Stephenie Larsen’s original vision and courage in founding Encircle, and explains how that vision has grown into a lifeline for queer youth and their families. Encircle provides affirming clinical therapy, currently accepting new clients, alongside a wide range of free programs and services designed to create safety, connection, and hope. Together, these offerings reflect a simple but powerful mission: to ensure no young person or family has to navigate identity, mental health, or belonging alone. This is one of the most powerful podcasts we’ve ever done. Alex’s coming-out story is profoundly moving as he shares his journey from shame to self-love and acceptance—traveling from darkness, depression, and little hope to light, happiness, and a deeper capacity to help others. I wish everyone—straight or queer—could hear his story. The principles and insights he shares have the power to help us all. Thank you, Alex, for being on the podcast and for your extraordinary work at Encircle. You are making a tremendous difference for good in our community, and you are one of my heroes. And to everyone involved with Encircle—thank you. I am deeply supportive of your lifesaving work. Links: Alex’s Instagram: @alexcutini Alex's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexcutini/ Encircle's Instagram: @encircletogether Encircle: https://encircletogether.org/

My friend Amy Watkins Jensen (teacher, writer, active LDS, founder of “Women on the Stand”) join us to share her story including: * Growing up Mormon in Chicago * Mission to Argentina—first awareness of gendered imbalance * Brother coming out as gay * Carol Lynn Pearson’s living room * Y/W LGBTQ service project * Backstory starting “Women on the Stand” * Area Presidency ending practice, heartache, letter writing * President Oak’s recent invitation on the need to do better * Best practices Any shares powerful and important principles behind the movement (which isn’t asking for doctrinal changes) including: * Aligning of practices with our doctrine (which is divine equality) * Respectfully relentless If you are looking to better support Latter-day Saint women, please listen to this podcast and connect with Amy’s work. As Amy teaches “It will help us come closer to the divine equality that is our doctrine—and part of our beautiful theology—allowing us to thrive”. Thank you, Amy, for your great work. You are making a difference. I learned so much from you—you give me hope! Links: Best practices link: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Xuxe0qF_naSVfF3FifQzvv9AAQeHdzD5LU-AaZ_mlws/edit?usp=drivesdk Hope for Future practices link: https://docs.google.com/document/d/19RuApg_1a-GGZYERHhvVRjI23IKPI3ooAdjUHE-gZAs/edit?usp=sharing Instagram account: @womenonthestand Substack: https://womenonthestand.substack.com/

*Note: This episode is about my goal to reduce the tension between those who stay in the Church and those who leave** My friend Andy Newman (married father of three, Ex-Mormon, therapist, LGBTQ ally, bridge builder) join us to discuss: * Understanding/supporting your spouse that left the church * Understanding/supporting your spouse that stays in the church * What helps couple stay strong * Shares values over shared beliefs * The Gottman Method * A,C,T,S Andy’s work is more than theoretical—as he talks “in-real-life” about how this works in their marriage with examples of how he supports his wife and three daughters in their church attendance (including giving a talk at a daughter’s baptism) and the peace he has found with people he loves holding different beliefs. Andy mentions the work of Allan and Kattie Mount and their podcast “Marriage on a Tightrope”. Thank you, Andy, for bringing your clinical expertise and own personal journey to help those in a mixed-faith marriage. I learned so much from you and appreciate your voice and healing work in our community. You are a good man—glad to have you on the podcast! Links: Psychology today: www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists/andy-newman-gilbert-az/974441 IG: www.instagram.com/andynewmanlpc/ TikTok: www.tiktok.com/@deconstruction_therapy Twitter: @andynewmanlpc Epsiode One: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-846-andy-newman-episode-one/id1347971725?i=1000734877746

My friend Rebecca Mullen (lives in Colorado, master certified life coach) joins us to talk about her work of healing including: * Becoming an LGBTQ ally in her younger years * Removing shame and providing healing * Helping everyone to be their authentic selves * Loving people that Churches don’t always love/accept * Principles for managing marriage conflict * Importance and application of love If you are looking for insights/perspectives to heal and bring people closer together, Rebecca’s work will help you. Thank you, my friend Rebecca, for being on the podcast—your great heart—and all you are doing to bring us together as the same human family. Links: Rebecca’s web site (you can find her contact info, life coach work, podcast and book here): https://RebeccaMullenCoaching.com/ Outdoor Therapist episode: https://podcasts.apple.com/dk/podcast/episode-736-zak-hazlett-the-outdoor-therapist/id1347971725?i=1000645256176

My friend Katie Searle (certified mediator, philanthropic consultant, grant writer, and mother) joins us to share her story, including: * Being raised in two homes after parents divorced (mother and her wife; father and his wife) * Going to BYU-Hawaii, part of Dr Chad Ford’s Peacebuilding Program and working at the McKay Center for Intercultural Understanding, temple marriage * Co-founding Kinfolk Magazine, adapting to the pace of a fast growing start-up Leaving the Church (LGBTQIA+ issues/feeling uneasy with messages that harmed people she loves, valuing authenticity over obedience, developing own moral compass) * Moving to Copenhagen and heartbreaking loss of a baby son Leo, at 5 months pregnant; the isolation of grieving abroad without community * Becoming pregnant again, husband coming out as gay, marriage ending Moving back to Oregon, managing heartbreak, daughter born, support from mother and her wife * Falling in love with Joe, his death on the day he was to move in, profound grief Opening heart to a new love with Matt and their committed partnership, shared life, and blended family Katie writes about grief with these powerful words: “I never sought to be an expert in grief and loss, but that is where my life journey has taken me. In navigating two separate households as a child, a transition of faith, the losses of a child, a marriage, a career, and the sudden death of my ‘chapter two’—my soul love—I’ve become well-acquainted with the darkness of deep loss, grief, and the grit of burning resilience. I care deeply about equipping others with the ability to adapt to life’s unavoidable conflicts, trauma, tragedies and stressors. Learning to live with adversity and grief in a culture that is pain-adverse can feel impossible and incredibly lonely, but there are ways to move forward (rather than moving on), rebuild and reclaim joy. I know this, because I’ve lived it time and time again—and so can you.” Katie is also the Assistant Director of the Waymakers initiative (with Chad Ford & Patrick Mason), and planner of their conflict resolution workshop series, REPAIR. Dr. Chad Ford writes about Katie’s roll in their recent workshop to "Maintaining Love during Faith Transitions" with these words: “Katie came up next. She spoke about her own faith transition in the most vulnerable way possible. She reminded us of both the fragility of change and the bravery it takes to find truth and belonging, especially when that means making choices that ask ourselves and others to leave behind old versions of ourselves. There were tears flowing as Katie, in her own graceful way, reminded us what it means to be human.” Thank you, Katie, for your courage to share your story—which helps all of us better understand grief and more tools to help others walking this road. Thank you for your bridge building work in our community. Thanks for all you are doing to bring us together as the same human family. Links: Waymakers' next REPAIR event: Interfaith REPAIR: A multi-faith workshop on healing divides and building communities of peace, March 6th, 2026, Salt Lake City (Tickets on sale early 2026) Waymakers: https://www.waymakers.us Support Waymakers: https://donorbox.org/waymakersproject Katie Searle's website & contact info: https://katiesearle.com/ Chad Ford's Earlier Episode: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-847-dr-chad-ford-new-book-seventy-times-seven/id1347971725?i=1000735977230

My friend Isaac Durfey (who was on episode 833) joins us to update listeners on his journey including: * Parent leaving on a mission * What happened to help him stopping “hating himself for being gay” * Importance of new beginnings * Friends like Jake and Joe Sharp (who were on episode 811) * Feeling about the Family Proclamation * Hope for the future * Love of the LDS Church and the support/love he receives Thank you, my friend Isaac, for being on the podcast—you are a good man. Links: Episode 833: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/episode-833-isaac-durfey-black-gay-latter-day-saint/id1347971725?i=1000710494050 Episode 811: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/episode-811-jake-and-joe-sharp-lost-brother-sam-to/id1347971725?i=1000691741343

My friend Russ Hinckely (mid 60s, married father of three, lives in Arizona, career in business) joins us to talk about his new book “Beyond Belief”. Russ’s book focuses “not just what we hold in our minds and hearts, but what we DO and how we actually LIVE the teachings of Christ (from Ashlie Carnecelli)—and “how one can truly follow Jesus in walking the path rather than just believing in it (from Jeff Anderson).” “Beyond Belief” is a pragmatic look at what Jesus taught and the behaviors He modeled. While creeds highlight foundational elements of our beliefs, they are only the starting point to living His teachings. One Amazon reviewer writes “ Russ Hinckley's "Beyond Belief" where we are reminded to get back to the basics of what Jesus was all about.” If you are looking for a book to put into action Jesus’s teachings to bless/help/heal others (and ourselves), please listen to this podcast and read/share Russ’s powerful book. Thank you, Russ, for helping us move “beyond belief” to make the teachings of Jesus’s actionable to bless others. Links: Russ’s book at Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/B0CRPTF1B8 Russ’s e-mail: russ.hinckley@gmail.com

My friend Dr. Chad Ford (Associate Professor of Religious Studies at Utah State University, prior director of McKay Center at BYU-Hawaii, expert of conflict resolution, PhD Georgetown University, joins us to talk about his new book published by Deseret Book “Seventy Times Seven: Jesus’s Path to Conflict Transformation”. Amazon reviews mention “one of the best they’ve read about Jesus, how it inspires readers to embrace compassion, encourages reflection and discussion, and practical application”. Chad talks about the “Gospel of Reconciliation” using the teachings and example of Jesus to apply to our lives. In the podcast he talks about principals to reduce tension and increase understand between current Latter-day Saints and former Latter-day Saints—and also to manage political tension within our congregations. Chad also talks about REPAIR (inaugural event in October 2025) bringing together world-class peacemakers to help attendees have better skills to navigate conflict. If you are looking to be a more effective peacemaker and disciple of Christ, I encourage you to listen to this episode, read Chad’s book, and share his work with others. Chad brings his academic training, decades of experience, and insights into Jesus’s teachings to help us all better navigate conflict. I learned so much listening to Chad—and am deeply inspired. Thank you, Chad, for your much needed work in our community. Links: Chad’s weekly newsletter: chadford.substack.com Chad’s new book Seventy Times Seven: amzn.to/439uaY9 Chad’s book on conflict Dangerous Love: amzn.to/4oLGFkQ More information on Repair: waymakers.substack.com

*Note: This episode is about my goal to reduce the tension between those who stay in the Church and those who leave** My friend Andy Newman (married father of three, Ex-Mormon, therapist, LGBTQ ally, bridge builder) joins for a series of episodes. In this episode, Andy talks about “the shame train” during his youth including: *Porn, substance use, and working with his church leaders * Shame around the “addiction label”, restrictions (temple trips), and falsely seeing himself as a “terrible addict” * How porn/substance use was more about self-medicating from the shame and trauma than a desire to displease God * How his worth become dependent on church leaders * All the people who helped him along the way Andy then talks about his road to be an LGBTQ ally: * Started in high school in Iowa with proximity to queer people * Felt he had to choose the Church over queer people * Powerful post-mission experience giving a blessing to a queer student at BYU-I * Fully taking on the ally role following the pulse nightclub shooting * Staying in the church as an ally * What led him to eventually leave the Church Andy also talks about why he isn’t trying to get other people to leave the Church—but trying to build bridges of understanding. In the next episode, will talk about his mixed-faith marriage (Andy’s wife is active LDS) and how they have a beautiful/supportive marriage—including Andy attending church. Thank you, my friend Andy, for being on the podcast and your great heart and clinical skills to help heal others and bring us together as the same human family. You are a good man and friend. Links: Psychology today: www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists/andy-newman-gilbert-az/974441 IG: www.instagram.com/andynewmanlpc/ TikTok: www.tiktok.com/@deconstruction_therapy

My friend Suzie Greco—a survivor of child sex abuse and domestic abuse, a Latter-day Saint, a Harvard Divinity School graduate (Master's in Theology), a doctoral candidate, and an advocate in numerous organizations working to end abuse—joins us to share her powerful story and discuss her new book, The Stone Sphere. In this must-listen-to podcast, Suzie shares: * The meaning behind the title and image on the front cover of the book. Untrained Ministry and Institutional Harm, including both positive and negative experiences with her Stake President, David F. Hollard—who gave Suzie permission to include his name and their experiences in the book. * A Transformative Theology of Forgiveness—a much healthier framework for healing. * Pathways to Healing, Redemption, and Spiritual Transcendence, the golden thread of the book. It's hard to overstate the power and importance of this conversation. Suzie is doing breakthrough, trailblazing work. I learned so much and was deeply moved. If you are a survivor of abuse—sexual, domestic, clergy, or otherwise—please listen. This episode will help you. (You are also welcome to reach out to Suzie directly; her email is in the show notes.) And if you are a local church leader, friend, family member, or really anyone else, please listen and share this podcast and Suzie’s book. It will provide you with better tools to help and support others. I truly wish I had heard this podcast and read Suzie’s book before my own church assignments—I would have been so much better equipped to help provide healing. Thank you, Suzie, for writing this book and for your vulnerability on the podcast. Your insights, courage, and work are helping so many. You are one of my new heroes. Links: Suzie’s Website: https://www.thestonesphere.com/ Suzie’s Email: S.E.Greco@sms.ed.ac.uk Book on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FD9FT8B1 Suzie’s Facebook :https://www.facebook.com/suzgrec2 Dialogue Journal Article, "Confronting Men's Violence Against Women & Girls in the LDS Church": https://www.dialoguejournal.com/articles/confronting-mens-violence-against-women-and-girls-in-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints/

My friend Autumn McAlpin (co-director and mother of two queer sons) and Vienna Boyes (co-director, mid 20s, queer) join us to share their stories and also their new feature length documentary called “Sanctuary”. Sanctuary—a must see—is a powerful documentary telling stories at the intersection of being a Latter-day Saint (and other Christian faiths) and being LGBTQ. I watched Sanctuary and was deeply moved hearing powerful stories/projects/efforts of queer people, parents, allies, and local church leaders. I learned so much and was deeply moved. I encourage everyone to watch Sanctuary (see show notes) and share with others. The film will be going on a screening tour in early 2026 before being released on streamers -- please follow the film's website and Instagram for screening announcements. Thank you, Autumn, and Vienna—and everyone involved with the documentary. You are making a huge difference in our community! Links: Sanctuary Web Site: https://sanctuarydoc.com/ Sanctuary Instagram: @sanctuarydocfilm Vienna's Instagram: @indigothestudio Autumn's Instagram: @autumnmcalpin Spencer’s Song: https://open.spotify.com/track/2qKXdi4mxZ0rXGoxJ6jlCF

My friend Bryson Lind (active gay Latter-day Saint, mid 30’s) joins us to discuss his new therapy practice in Utah (Aletheia Counseling) and important topics he helps clients (LGBTQ and straight) solve including: * Overcoming unwanted behaviors * Reconstructing a relationship with the Divine * Honoring everyone’s path * Trusting our Light of Christ/Inner Compass * Navigating relationships with parents and leaders * Developing self-confidence and patience If you are looking for a therapist (or insights from a therapist to help you—or to be a better ally for LGBTQ Latter-day Saints), this is a must listen podcast. Bryson’s brings his lived experience, clinical training, and 5 years of clinical practice together to offer powerful solutions and principles. I was so moved listening to Bryson and so grateful to have him back on the podcast. Thank you, Bryson. You are a good man doing great work in our community. Links: Bryson’s e-mail: bryson@aletheiacounselingtherapy.com Bryson’s Work Phone: 385-442-9721 Bryson’s earlier podcast: https://soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-588-bryson-lind-rm-byu-grad-gay-clinical-mental-health-counselor Bryson’s Psychology Today profile: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists/bryson-garrett-lind-provo-ut/1090307

My friend Rob Metalf (married father of two, age 33) joins us to share his journey with his mental health (OCD/anxiety) and his physical health (Ankylosing spondylitis—or AS). Rob (guitar player and songwriter) has formed a band (TOWN!) and is releasing an album (The Road Trip) that captures many of his life experiences. The first song (Forever—see show notes) is a song about his anxiety. In the podcast, Rob talks about other songs that on the album talking about important and sensitive subjects (suicide, relationship with the Church, Alzheimer's). In the podcast, Rob shares his journey with AS (undiagnosed for a long time) and how it took him from an avid outdoorsman to—on his worse days—bedridden. Rob talks about his journey to find a diagnosis and the right medication to get him in a better spot—and all the people that helped him along the way. Rob is honest about feeling angry/abandon by God and how we can better support people with long-term health challenges. Rob is one of my heroes. He is a survivor and now using his gifts to help others through sharing his story and his music. I encourage you to listen to and share this podcast and his music. Thank you, Rob, for being on the podcast. You are a good man. Links: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/track/5B6F6RaBY79SLmTIZvOzLs?si=495f1a71eacd480e&nd=1&dlsi=cc0b82d21bb24d6e Apple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/album/forever/1826704391?i=1826704454 Our Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/abandcalledtown/

Talk given in our YSA Ward on the character of our Heavenly Parents and Jesus—and how that brings us peace, healing, and hope. Focused on seven concepts: 1) Our Heavenly Parents love all Their children 2) We have to believe/know we are acceptable to God. That we are created as intended. That no one is a mistake 3) Zion isn’t sameness 4) Jesus loves to forgive 5) Whole and complete now 6) Don’t feel you are behind 7) Throw out the dating checklist Links: Seven Tips for Overcoming Porn Use: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/10/young-adults/7-tips-for-overcoming-pornography-use How the Savior’s Healing Applies to Repenting from Sexual Sin: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/08/young-adults/how-the-saviors-healing-power-applies-to-repenting-from-sexual-sin

My friends Aaron and Julie Bujnowski (married parents of two; living North of Dallas, Texas, active Latter-day Saints) join us to talk about their new book “Navigating to Jesus: A Journey of Faith.” In this important 10-chapter book, Aaron and Julie share many of their own difficult/wounding experiences (both in and out of the Church), and their path forward to healing and staying in the Church is Jesus. Thank you, Aaron and Julie, for opening up your hearts in writing this needed book and being on the podcast. I am grateful for your courage to talk about some of your difficult life experiences, and “navigating to Jesus” is the answer. I encourage everyone to check out your book! Links: Amazon: https://a.co/d/cUw0Y09 Cedar Fort: https://www.cedarfort.com/products/navigating-to-jesus-a-journey-of-faith?sca_ref=2861413.ytmX5gv94t Instagram: @navigatingtojesus Earlier episode on Listen, Learn, and Love (episode 647): soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-647-aaron-and-julie-bujnowski-new-book-discovering-your-temple-insights

My friend Jessica Frew (life coach, former husband is gay and still “part of the family”, married mother of three) joins us to share her story of her husband coming out as gay and that marriage ending—and still staying close as they co-parent their daughter. Jessica also talks about her important new book called “Shove Your Shoulds” which focuses on healthier boundaries, improved self-image, and deeper acceptance of ourselves and others. Jessica writes the book from her own experiences and from her work as a life coach. I am grateful for Jessica’s voice on acceptance and understanding in our community—and encourage everyone to check out her new book (currently in presale—release date of Sept 12, 2025). Thank you, Jessica, for being on the podcast. You are awesome. Links: Book website: https://shoveyourshoulds.com/ Jessica on Instagram: @heyjessicafrew Jessica’s podcast (Husband In Law): podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/husband-in-law/id1464470280 Jessica’s earlier episode on Listen, Learn, and Love (episode 217): https://soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-217-jessica-and-matt-frew-active-lds-and-steve-stoddard-jessicas-gay-former-husband

My friend Darren Parry (Shoshone Leader, Adjust Professor at Utah State and University of Utah, Author) joins us to talk about his new book called “Tending the Sacred: How Indigenous Wisdom will Save the World” which talks about values from the lens of our Indigenous friends to help understand and solve today’s problems. Darren talks about his own history (including his ancestors) using real life examples on how “Indigenous Wisdom” helps see and solve problems bringing us together as the same human family. I am deeply moved by Darren’s insights/soft heart and work to build bridges. I’m honored to have served as Darren’s companion during our missions in England 45 years ago as I had the chance to see Darren’s love for the people of England (and love for me—his new junior companion). I encourage everyone to reach Darren’s book—for timeless values to help bring us together. Thank you to our friends at BCC Press for publishing Darren’s book. Thank you, Darren, for being on the podcast and your needed work in our world! Links: Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1961471248 Darren’s FB: https://www.facebook.com/darren.parry.7