Claim OwnershipThe Pie: An Economics Podcast
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Economists are always talking about The Pie – how it grows and shrinks, how it’s sliced, and who gets the biggest shares. Join host Tess Vigeland as she talks with leading economists from the University of Chicago about their cutting-edge research and key events of the day. Hear how the economic pie is at the heart of issues like the aftermath of a global pandemic, jobs, energy policy, and more.
122 Episodes
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On February 28, the US and Israel launched airstrikes against Iran. Four weeks later, the conflict shows no signs of ending. Iran has blocked the Strait of Hormuz, taking roughly 10% of global oil supply off the market. Energy prices have spiked to levels not seen since the 1970s, and Iran continues to strike US allies using drones, cyber attacks, and other tactics. In this panel recorded at the Harris School of Public Policy, three University of Chicago experts, Ryan Kellogg on energy markets, Paul Poast on military alliances, and Jake Braun on cyber policy, discuss why the US struck now, why European allies have been reluctant to join, and why there's no clear exit from the conflict.
For more on the event:
https://harris.uchicago.edu/news-events/news/operation-epic-fury-and-problem-undefined-war
People in the Netherlands average nearly 11 years of schooling, compared to about 2.5 for those in the Central African Republic. Why don't these gaps close? In this episode, Esteban Rossi-Hansberg of the University of Chicago explains recent research that divides the entire globe into more than 16,000 grid cells to study the costs of acquiring human capital, and how these valuable skills drive economic development.
If you have money in an index fund, you are benefiting from Eugene Fama's work. In this Extra Slice of The Pie, the Nobel laureate and "father of modern finance" reflects on a career that reshaped how trillions of dollars are invested, including his development of the Efficient Market Hypothesis, which provides the theoretical foundation for passive investing.
Two hundred fifty years after The Wealth of Nations, capitalism looks nothing like Adam Smith imagined (and nothing like Karl Marx predicted, either). Smith envisioned small, decentralized producers, while Marx foresaw concentration dominated by the rich. In this lecture, Yueran Ma of Chicago Booth draws on centuries of global data to show how production concentrated while ownership diffused, and the giants at the top keep getting toppled.
The common perception of Chinese governance is a strong, centralized state. For decades, however, the vast majority of the country's policies originated with local governments, as officials experimented, competed, and copied each other's successes. In this episode, Shaoda Wang of Harris Public Policy describes his research analyzing 3.7 million government documents to trace the origin and diffusion of Chinese policies, revealing the economic costs of the country's shift toward centralized policymaking.
Who bore the cost of 2025's sweeping tariffs? UChicago economist Brent Neiman returns to The Pie to discuss his new research with co-author Gita Gopinath examining the effects of last year's tariffs. Neiman reveals a gap between statutory rates and what was actually collected, explains why US importers absorbed the vast majority of costs, and discusses China's dramatic collapse as a US trading partner. He also explores the longer-term implications, including potential retaliation, shifting global alliances, and diplomatic costs that may outlast any short-term revenue gains.
Days after the Trump administration's surprise military operation captured Venezuelan leader Nicolás Maduro, a panel of UChicago scholars gathered to make sense of what it means for Venezuela, the United States, and the region. Professor Christopher Blattman, Deputy Dean Ryan Kellogg, and Associate Professor Paul Poast join moderator Rebecca Wolfe to discuss Venezuela's decline from one of the hemisphere's wealthiest nations, the regional migration crisis that followed, and the uncertain road ahead.
Financial crises are "everywhere and always" a problem of short-term debt. In this Extra Slice of The Pie, Nobel laureate Douglas Diamond explains his groundbreaking research on why banks exist in the first place, and why they're vulnerable to runs. Diamond discusses his role advising policymakers during the 2008 crisis, reflects on predicting the savings and loan disaster as a graduate student in the 1970s, and explains why the 30-year mortgage is like Michael Corleone: something good that went bad when it hung around with the wrong crowd.
Standard measures of intergenerational mobility treat parental income as a single average across childhood. In this episode, Steven Durlauf, Frank P. Hixon Distinguished Service Professor at the Harris School of Public Policy and Director of the Stone Center for Research on Wealth Inequality and Mobility, describes how parental income during the tween and adolescent years (ages 12-18) is far more predictive of adult outcomes than parental income during early childhood.
As we close out 2025, host Tess Vigeland highlights research from UChicago scholars. Hyuk Su Kwon, Assistant Professor at the Harris School of Public Policy, explains the design of electric vehicle subsidies. Eduardo Montero, Assistant Professor at Harris, reveals how Seventh Day Adventist churches adapt when members face costly trade-offs between faith and farming. Virginia Minni, Assistant Professor at the Booth School of Business, shares how a one-day purpose workshop where workers connect childhood passions to their current roles drives measurable productivity gains. Plus, Leo Bursztyn discusses why green text bubbles create lock-in effects for Apple. Full versions of these conversations are available wherever you get your podcasts.
In this wide-ranging conversation, Nobel Prize–winning economist Roger Myerson reflects on a career studying how rules shape human behavior, from optimal auction design to Ukraine's decentralization reforms. Myerson explains the foundations of mechanism design and incentive constraints, tracing economics back to Xenophon and arguing that local democracy is what holds democracies together.
Large gaps in language skills between children from different socioeconomic backgrounds emerge early and persist throughout schooling. In this episode, Ariel Kalil, Professor of Public Policy at UChicago's Harris School, discusses her research on "Chat2Learn," a technology intervention that sends open-ended conversation prompts to parents' phones. The low-cost behavioral nudge increases vocabulary, encourages back-and-forth conversation, and fosters curiosity in young children.
What's the greatest driver of economic growth? Love. In this episode, UChicago economist Pablo Peña presents his new book Human Capital for Humans, inspired by Nobel laureate Gary Becker's legendary doctoral course. In conversation with host Tess Vigeland, he discusses how simple economic principles illuminate life's biggest matters, from parenting and marriage to jobs and schooling.
Deirdre McCloskey argues the world's jump from $2 to $50 per day in average income came from a radical 18th-century shift: equality of permission, or letting ordinary people have a go at bettering themselves. She traces how liberating human creativity through what she calls the "bourgeois deal" sparked innovation from Holland to Scotland to America, while state control stifled it elsewhere. McCloskey critiques modern economics for reducing humans to "vending machines" and argues we need "humanomics" that recognizes love, ethics, and human complexity alongside mathematical models. She challenges the field's statist turn, defends Adam Smith's complete vision beyond self-interest, and explains why India may become the next great creative economy while Europe's trillion-dollar spending plans repeat the old mistake of top-down investment instead of unleashing individual creativity.
According to the TIAA Institute, American adults correctly answered just 49% of basic financial questions in 2024, suggesting a fundamental gap in economic literacy. In this episode Robert Shimer, Professor of Economics at the University of Chicago, and John List, Professor of Economics and Director of the Becker Friedman Institute, discuss Economics for Everyone, a groundbreaking program that teaches economic reasoning without the math. From classroom experiments that predict market equilibrium to 60 professional videos watched worldwide and teacher training programs across Chile, Colombia, and Saudi Arabia, they explore how economic thinking shapes everything from Instagram scrolling to tariff policy, and why critical thinking about causality versus correlation has never been more important.
A warmer world is here. Now what? Listen to Shocked, from the University of Chicago’s Institute for Climate and Sustainable Growth, and hear journalist Amy Harder and economist Michael Greenstone share new ways of thinking about climate change and cutting-edge solutions: https://lnk.to/shockedpodcastFD!thepie
The secret to winning in a rigged economy isn't changing the rules, argues Redfin Chief Economist Daryl Fairweather, but mastering the game. In this episode, Fairweather, the first Black woman to earn a PhD from UChicago's Economics Department, reveals economic "cheat codes" for navigating the modern workplace, from decoding performance reviews to discovering your true market value.
When couples move for work, whose career takes the hit? UChicago economist Matt Notowidigdo discusses research showing that when heterosexual couples relocate, men's incomes increase by 10-15% while women's earnings barely budge, generating earnings gaps that last for years. Plus, couples are more likely to move when the man loses the job compared to the woman.
Nobel laureate James Heckman explains why ages zero to five are critical for brain development and lifelong outcomes. He discusses the Perry Preschool Program's surprising health benefits 35 years later, why low-cost home-visiting programs that engage parents outperform expensive institutional interventions, and how "dynamic complementarity" means early skills beget later skills. Heckman also critiques economics' "credibility revolution," arguing the field has traded big-picture understanding for narrow "clean" answers—illustrated by his recent Wall Street Journal op-ed showing that contrary to popular belief, the China trade shock created net job gains for the US.
What happened to contraceptive choices when the Supreme Court's Dobbs decision reversed Roe v. Wade in 2022? UChicago's Yana Gallen uses health insurance claims from millions of Americans to examine the ripple effects and reveal surprising patterns.
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this is the dumbest conversation I've heard recently
don't think she would have taught a second class at my university...
At no point in the podcast do the authors offer the option of west reducing per capita energy consumption to offset rising energy production by the east. why dont you guys reduce your per capita consumption and meet us in the middle so everyone has same per capita consumption.
thanks castbox for subscribing me to this podcast without my knowledge