Conversations as you Go

As we race toward the end of 2025 and look ahead to 2026, many of us find ourselves taking stock — of our year, our ministry, and even our own sense of worth. How are you feeling right now? Encouraged? Tired? Discouraged? In this our episode for the year, Roy Moran brings a timely and deeply pastoral word that calls us back to what we are truly worth — not based on our activity, outcomes, or perceived success, but on what God has already declared and paid for. Roy encourages us to reflects on Romans 8:15–39. Dave will read the full passage at the end of the episode, creating space for you to reflect, pray, and give thanks as we approach Christmas. We often don’t need more information — we need reminding. As Patrick Henry famously said, “People need to be reminded more than they need to be informed.” Too often, our sense of worth is quietly shaped by our activity. We compare ourselves to others in the room — those with larger platforms, greater influence, or more visible disciple-making fruit — and we begin to measure ourselves accordingly. Roy names this for what it is: a deeply destructive way of living. The gospel proclaims something radically different. Every human being is worth the blood of Jesus. The most significant relationship in all eternity — the relationship between the Father and the Son — was put into question so that we could be brought into God’s family. That is the value the Father places on us. Even if we experience extraordinary success in ministry or movement outcomes, our worth never increases. We are worth exactly what was paid on the cross — nothing more, nothing less. Roy also challenges our learning and leadership cultures. If confession and repentance are absent — especially repentance from idols like ministry numbers, performance, or operating out of the flesh — we subtly drift back into a works-based mindset. Peace and freedom come when we remember that our worth is never on trial. It is not dependent on our effort, outcomes, or legacy. Our identity is secure:I am a child of the Most High.I am precious to Him.He will never leave me or forsake me. Whether or not we ever see a disciple-making movement, God’s invitation remains the same: to live as beloved and faithful sons and daughters. Romans 8:15–39 – questions for reflection What identity does Paul highlight in Romans 8?Spend some time in quiet contemplation before God.Is there anything the Spirit is inviting you to confess or repent of? May this episode help you end the year grounded in grace, identity, and the unshakeable love of the Father.

In this episode, we continue our series drawing from our training with Roy Moran and Aila Tasse. In this conversation, Roy shares the importance of focusing on the generators in disciple-making movements and reflects on several key shifts in his thinking and practice. He begins by telling parts of his own story and how he became involved in movements around the world. Key Shifts in Roy’s Thinking & Practice Conversion vs. Discovery & Disciple-MakingRoy highlights the difference between aiming for a moment of conversion versus facilitating discovery through disciple-making. He notes that the “line of faith” concept has shaped much of Western thinking, yet it’s not something we actually see in the Gospels. Discovery Bible Studies—often led by those who aren’t yet followers of Jesus—play a crucial role here. Faith in Function, Not FormInstead of focusing on structures or models, Roy urges us to trust the function of disciple-making. When we start with making disciples, ekklesia—church as Jesus intended—naturally emerges. Groups Over IndividualsMovements multiply through groups, not isolated individuals. Catalysts fuel multiplication, while what Roy calls “accidental diminishers” slow it down. Marketers vs. Terrorists (Revolutionaries)Roy draws a striking analogy: marketers are loud and central, while revolutionaries are subtle, quiet, and operate at the edges, identifying people who are already open to change. They are also needs-focused. He warns that our well-intended spirituality can sometimes get in the way of our humanness—and that curiosity, especially in the West, has become a lost art. Learning Designers vs. Content ProvidersRoy re-examines what we mean by the biblical gift of teaching. Is it merely telling? Research shows that questions, not statements, facilitate genuine learning. Movements thrive when we design ways for people to discover rather than receive information passively. Leading People Toward vs. Leading AwayCatalytic leaders create processes where “it can’t happen without me, but it can’t depend on me.” This becomes a litmus test for our methods:Can people do this themselves, and can they pass it on? Focus on the Generators, Not the Generations Roy emphasizes that one of our common mistakes is focusing on generations (how many steps down the line) instead of generators—the multipliers who spark ongoing reproduction. When we cultivate generators, the generations take care of themselves. He illustrates this with the pandemic’s “R number,” which showed how quickly a virus could spread. Christianity, he suggests, can sometimes inoculate people from the very thing it’s meant to spread—we become addicted to visible success and move on when things don’t seem to be working. But movements don’t emerge from quick wins.They are formed through long periods of small, consistent acts of obedience, which eventually become visible. Roy calls us back to staying faithful to the basics of disciple-making—and to keeping our eyes on the generators.

After hearing from Roy Moran last week, in this podcast we start a series of receiving a training from Roy and Aila Tasse. Roy and Aila brought clarity and the heart of God the Father as we received their input in Melbourne recently over two weeks.  In this episode, Roy shares on not falling in love with the practice of DMM but with the heart of God. The Lovesick Father’s Heart He asks us two questions to answer from Luke 15:20-24 (the returning of the prodigal son):  What does this tell us about the heart of this earthly father in the story? What does this tell us about the heart of God? “And he arose and came to his father. But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and felt compassion, and ran and embraced him and kissed him. And the son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’ But the father said to his servants, ‘Bring quickly the best robe, and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet. And bring the fattened calf and kill it, and let us eat and celebrate. For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found.’ And they began to celebrate.”  Our core motivation for disciple making is this: We serve a lovesick Father who is desperate to regather his family. We need to fall in love with the problem not the solution: When we fall in love with disciple making tactics, we fail to realise that they are not what generates passion. Only a connection with the lovesick Father’s heart for his lost children will bring people passion and motivation. Becoming part of the Father’s business: Its not as simple as saying ‘prayer starts movements’. Instead, as we grow closer to the Father’s heart for his children, we will become part of the family business.  God is generous: The reason the trinity created us is so that we could share in the life and community that they have. God is desperate to see those who have fallen out of this community to be pulled back into it. Roy and his wife Candy, and a group of four others started Shoal Creek Community Church in 1992.

Dave speaks with Roy Moran about fresh opportunities for disciple-making and movements in Western contexts like Australia and New Zealand. Roy reflects on several key shifts that shaped his own journey: Key Shifts Roy Made From belief to obedience.Jesus’ invitation “follow me” and His final command to “obey everything I have commanded you” show that disciple-making is about getting people in front of God’s Word and helping them obey and share it. Re-gospelling.Forgiveness is part of the gospel—but not the whole. The fuller gospel shapes how we love people as humans first, before trying to be spiritually impressive. Seeing the gospel move away from us.Jesus sent His disciples out. We need to make the shift of seeing the gospel move away from us rather than attracting people towards us. Confidence in the Word and Spirit alone.God’s Word ahas power without our explanations—especially when paired with obedience and sharing. The Spirit enables people to obey and to also share their story, not just their “faith.” Not persuading but loving.Disciple-making in the West requires listening, connecting, and understanding others. Then if people give God’s Word and Spirit access, He works in their lives. Final Word of Encouragement from Roy Moran “Jesus had a dream of bringing heaven to earth…What would it be like if we were to learn from [where movements are exploding] and begin to implement some of the strategies of multiplying disciples? I think it is possible!…I’m seeing it in my own world right now… I know it can happen here and I know it can happen with you!”

In this episode, Dave catches up with Shodankeh Johnson, an apostolic leader from Sierra Leone, well known from the Engage Africa videos. Shodankeh has seen disciples in his nation grow from just a handful to half a million. During a recent conference in America, Dave asked Shodankeh to share a word of encouragement and greeting, focusing on the need to see the passion, power, and fire of God flow through us—not just relying on the right methods. This, Shodankeh reminds us, is key for breakthrough in the West, where movements of multiplication are longed for. Shodankeh reminds us that God is always in us, and that His reward is sure. “Yes, it can be tough, but it can be done. With God, all things are possible. He is the impossibility specialist.” He emphasizes the importance of prayer: “Pray as if everything depends on you, and pray as if everything depends on God. God will shake the foundation of the wicked one. A time is coming when we will see rapid multiplication of disciples, churches, leaders, and groups across the western world.” Shodankeh encourages us to be strong and courageous and never give up, quoting Hebrews 11:6: “And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.” He calls faith the currency of heaven, the foundation from which multiplication of disciples will come. This, he says, is the love language of a disciple-making movement. He shares a stirring call to pursue the fire of God: “In this generation, we need to pray that God will use us. The fire of God is very important. We will see this when we spend quality time in His presence. There is no rush hour with God. Be hungry for His Word and His presence. Cry out for it as you would for food and water. When you do, the fire of God will come upon your life. This is what makes the difference—not the strategies of disciple-making movements. The first disciples in Acts were ordinary people, but the presence of God and the fire in them made all the difference. Be hungry for that fire. It’s not the size of the fire, but how many fires you can light.” Shodankeh closes by praying for the fire of God to come upon us and flow through us, empowering ordinary people to make an extraordinary impact for Christ.

This podcast we listen to a commissioning from movement leaders in third world contexts that will deeply encourage us as disciple makers and leaders. Jesus commissioned his disciples saying, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And behold I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” (Matthew 28:18-20). This spoke deeply into the disciples’ spirits as they started to obey his commission. It brought all of Jesus’ ministry and teaching together. It had all come to this. The disciples knew that this was what they were called to do. In this episode you will hear a commissioning given by several movement leaders (who are remain nameless mainly due to security) from Africa and elsewhere in the world. These are the final statements from a powerful meeting of movement leaders encouraging one another. They cover: What is DMM (and what it is not): How movement is the multiplication of disciples and churches. The call to go into difficult places and even suffer for Jesus. The encouragement that we should never be satisfied: To go for the highest – nothing less than God wants to accomplish. How the call that is for ordinary people. The need to collaborate and network. As you listen to each leader share and pray, be deeply encouraged and empowered in your spirit. Let these prayers become your prayers.

In this episode, Dave shares a recent message he gave to the Crossway Online Church community, reflecting on Luke 10 and the surprising power of ordinary people in God’s mission. In Luke 10, Jesus sends out 72 others — because 12 were not enough. When the 72 return, full of joyful testimonies of God at work, Jesus Himself is described as “full of joy through the Holy Spirit.” “I praise you, Father… because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children… Blessed are the eyes that see what you see.” — Luke 10:21, 23–24 Dave reminds us that Jesus transferred the kingdom of God into the hands of ordinary disciples — people who pray, listen, obey, and go. Story 1 — Aisha in South East Asia Among a large unreached people groups, Aisha was a simple housewife trained in disciple-making. As she prayed, God gave her a heart to reach her community around her. With no previous experience, she simply started where she was — in the marketplace. Partnering with a street trader named Fani, they began selling a local delicacy — fried chicken heads — and the business grew rapidly. Immersed in the community, Misha began offering: • Micro-loans to struggling traders • Literacy classes for teenagers • Discovery Bible Studies (DBS) with new friends What began as prayerful availability has now become multiplying disciple-making groups. Jesus leaped for joy because God reveals His kingdom through the unexpected and overlooked — the “little children.” Story 2 — The Chicken Shop Disciple Maker In a region of South Asia experiencing high persecution, Dave describes how one of the teams has seen over 40,000 new disciples and 2,200+ churches planted. In the midst of this movement was a man who simply ran a local chicken shop. He learned to start Discovery Bible Studies with his neighbours. Disciple-making is simple and reproducible. Ordinary people. Everyday places. Story 3 — James in Africa James is seeing a movement among Muslim university lecturers, Muslim students, their families and the wider community. In the last 12 months alone: • 161 new Discovery Groups have been birthed • 99 new churches have been planted • 11 unreached people groups have been engaged • Groups are multiplying to the 4th generation and beyond There is real joy and freedom from darkness, with many baptisms among those previously far from Jesus. Photo: James’ first house church Photo: Discovery Bible Group on an Islamic University campus Recent baptisms through James’ ministry in Africa Response Key Characteristics of Ordinary Disciple Makers • The Power of the Ordinary — Don’t compare yourself. • The Power of Availability — Simply be available to God. • The Power of Obedience — Listen and follow what God says. • Birth Everything in Prayer — Movements start on our knees. Dave ends with a call to: • Pray • Give to missions • Go and participate in the Great Commission Because the Gospel spreads not through the extraordinary, but through ordinary people who say ‘yes’ to Jesus. You can watch Dave sharing at Crossway here

Featuring: Dave Coles, author of God on the Move: Making Disciples Among the Nations📖 Book on Amazon💡 Related reading: Motus Dei: The Movement of God to Disciple the Nations This episode begins with a reading from the foreword of Dave Coles’ new book God on the Move and a conversation with the author. Dave shares his passion to give a voice to majority world movement leaders and make their stories accessible to the global church. Some Key Features of Disciple Making Movements (DMM) Prayer & miraculous signs, empowerment of ordinary people, holistic transformation, disciples making disciples and courage & sacrifice — all hallmarks of movements God is using across the nations. The Challenge of the Unreached The world is becoming more unreached, yet movements are multiplying faster than population growth among key groups. Multiplying movements bring real hope for reaching the nations. Hope for the West Encouraging signs of growth in unexpected places like the UK and France. God’s promise in Amos 9:13 reminds us that the harvest will overtake the sowing — even in the West. Church in Movements Simple, Spirit-led expressions of church — not dependent on buildings or programs — empower ordinary disciples to gather, obey, and multiply. Community Learning Centres From India’s Bhojpuri movement to urban hubs, meeting community needs holistically opens doors for the gospel and creates spaces for discovery and multiplication. What Brings Dave Coles Hope? God’s promises and presence — and seeing Muslims and others coming to faith in miraculous ways — points to the nearness of Christ’s return (Matthew 24:14). A Word of Encouragement We serve an amazing God! Ask Him, “What do You want me to do this week to show Your love and advance Your kingdom?” — and step out in faith.

We continue our series from the Thailand 25 Gathering, hearing from a leader from South East Asia who is catalysing disciple-making movements among a large unreached people group, and from Dave, who shares practical insights on how to catalyse movements with stories from Fiji and England. From the South East Asian Leader He shared about three key roles in disciple-making movements (DMM): 1. Disciple – doing DBS (Discovery Bible Study) together. 2. Facilitator – helping others become disciple-makers. 3. Catalyst – multiplying movement through others. He described his personal calling as that of a Catalyst—someone Jesus sends into new places to find people of peace, help them discover Jesus, and train others to do the same. Some key principles he highlighted: • Follow Jesus’ plan to be sent into places where you know no one, trusting Him to lead you to people with open hearts. • Gather and train those who respond—equip them with simple tools and resources. • Model and multiply—invite those who have seen fruit to share at trainings and train others by example. • Form teams from those trained—pray together, stay together, and go back to Scripture and DBS regularly. • Coach and mentor ongoingly, repeating the process to see multiplication continue. From Dave: How to Catalyse Movements Dave shared how catalysing begins with our relationship with God—hearing His call and being led by the Spirit. He described five levels or roles in movement growth: 1. Disciple (groups of 2s and 3s) 2. Group leader (People of Peace, often church leaders) 3. Leader of groups and streams of churches that are multiplying 4. Regional leaders (those carrying a vision across nations or regions) 5. Catalysts who help multiple movements grow Key insights from Dave’s experience: • Everything begins in prayer—listening to God and watching for new things He is doing. • Find catalytic leaders—local, Spirit-led people whom God is already using. • Serve others by asking, “What does this person need?” rather than pushing your own agenda. • Movement work is highly relational and Spirit-dependent, not just about strategy or training. Dave reminds us that God is the one who catalyses the work—and sometimes He turns the question back to us: “How much do you want?”

We continue our series from our international gathering in Thailand with part two of The Inner Life of a leader. In this episode, Graham (a pastor from New Zealand with over 50 years of ministry experience) and a leader from South Asia share how they nurture and sustain their inner lives as disciples and leaders. Part 1: Graham (New Zealand) – Dealing with our questions and thoughts “Above all else, guard your heart, for it is the wellspring of life.” – Proverbs 4:23 Graham reflects on how leaders can deal with questions and negative thought patterns. He highlights the importance of bringing our questions honestly to the cross. He also shares the need for accountability in relationships and discerning God’s voice by taking every thought captive. “We have to learn how to deal with the questions.” Part 2: South Asian Leader – The rhythms of a disciple in the midst of persecution “You have to face these things [persecution]. These things will come.” Speaking from his context of persecution, this fruitful leader describes how rhythms of prayer, Scripture, and fellowship sustain him. He emphasises that obedience to God’s Word is central, since we can only share with others what we are living out ourselves. He explains the MAWL principle (Model, Assist, Watch, Launch) as the way he disciples others. Even in persecution, he testifies that the Word of God brings hope and courage. Since Jesus prepares us as his disciples for suffering from the beginning, the promise of eternal life gives hope and strength. For this leader, it is a deep source of joy to see the church multiplying under persecution—he shares that they have recently recorded 2,100 churches in their network. Final Encouragement Once again, we see how our inner lives are the most vital part of who we are as disciples and leaders. Be encouraged by these leaders’ words to: Guard your heart and let God’s truth shape your inner life. Live out rhythms of prayer, Scripture, and obedience that sustain faith—even in hardship. Graham has written a book called ‘Demon Speak: Recognising and Overcoming the Enemy Voices in Your Life’.

We continue our series from our international gathering in Thailand. What will take us out of the race as leaders in movements? Over the next two podcasts, we’ll be hearing  from four practitioning leaders share from their perspective of what helps them go the distance as disciple makers and leaders. In this episode, we hear two powerful insights from two experienced practitioners about the inner life of a disciple and leader—the part of us that shapes everything we do. Be encouraged by the walk of others as we look at our own lives as disciples and leaders.  Part 1: Roger (New Zealand) – Personality and Leadership “Often we underestimate how much our personalities can influence our leadership.”  Roger shares how our soul or personalities and tendencies can both strengthen and slow us down as leaders. If we’re not aware, our personality can even take us out of the race. Looking at the lives of Jesus’ disciples, Roger highlights how their different temperaments shaped their strengths—and their struggles:  • Peter – impulsive, bold and ambitious.  • James & John – ambitious, strong leadership, destructive (controlling and angry) at times, but full of zeal (can lead to burnout for some).  • Thomas – skeptical, analytical, cautious (wise but can be paralysed by doubt and overthinking) yet also deeply loyal (slow to trust).  • Philip – practical, analytical, sometimes too pragmatic.  • Andrew – quiet and relational (but can be people pleasing and compromise with shallow connections rather than speaking the truth and lifting one another up).   • Judas – calculated, controlling, desiring power (the prestige of Jesus’ movement), and ultimately led astray. Roger challenges us with Romans 12: are we functioning out of our true spiritual gifts—or just our personality? Many leaders let their personality take over, but God calls us to live and lead from the Spirit alongside others in community and teams.  Part 2: Gabi (Eastern Europe) – Testing: God Working in the Dark “The lack of trusting is actually the lack of love.”  Gabi speaks vulnerably about walking through valley seasons as a leader. Instead of asking “why me?” she encourages us to ask: “God, what are You doing in this situation?” Drawing from her journey, including seasons of suffering and difficulty, Gabi reminds us of Psalm 23. God meets us in the valley – in the dark. And he leads us through and encourages us to grow as people. She encourages leaders not to give in to bitterness or fear, but to embrace the Spirit of love, power, and a sound mind (2 Tim 1:7). Even in the darkest moments, God is at work shaping our hearts and preparing us to lead with greater depth. Takeaway Your inner life is the most important part of who you are as a leader. Be encouraged by Roger and Gabi’s words to: • Pay attention to your personality and how it influences your leadership. • Allow God to meet you in the valleys, shaping your spirit rather than letting fear or bitterness take hold. This episode will help you grow deeper as a disciple and leader who leads from the inside out.

As we continue our Thailand25 series, many of you will remember Rey from Hong Kong and how God used him to see movement among Filipina maids. In this episode, Rey continues to share the journey of seeing movement in and from Hong Kong. In July 2022, Rey pioneered Discovery Obedience Bible Studies (DOBS) in Hong Kong parks with Pilipino maids. What began as one small step of faith has now grown into multiplying disciple-making communities (DMCs) in Hong Kong, Macau, the Philippines, and even Japan. Rey’s obedience to the Holy Spirit has opened the door to multiplication down to third and fourth generations of disciples. His passion is clear: “We are not in the business of making believers but disciples.” You’ll be encouraged as Rey explains how God is using simple obedience, a clear disciple-making vision, and a commitment to multiplication to bring transformation from Hong Kong to the nations. Highlights from Rey’s Journey Early Exposure to Movements Since 2016, Rey was exposed to disciple-making movements through experiences in Israel, India, and Myanmar, which grew into a deep passion and became the focus of his Master’s thesis in Hong Kong. From Pastor to Movement Pioneer His church in Hong Kong adopted DMM principles—but only as a growth strategy, not a true disciple-making movement. The spark eventually faded. 2022: Rey resigned from traditional church ministry, rejecting offers from large churches.  During quarantine, while fasting and praying, God’s answer surprised him: not to join another church, but to start doing DMM himself. July 2, 2022: Rey launched the first DOBS group in a Hong Kong park. Multiplication Across Nations Hong Kong: Now 110 active disciples. 3 DMCs (up to 4th generation). 201 baptisms over the last three years—monthly beach baptisms with new believers. 20 women in training to become “DMM pastors,” preparing to return to the Philippines. Macau: 1 group, 8 active disciples, 3 disciple-makers. Philippines: Communities in the north, central, and the Muslim south (Mindanao). Over 100 active disciples in multiple generations. Japan (Yokosuka, near Tokyo): Filipina women reaching out to bar owners and families. Baptisms and new groups forming into a multiplying community. Disciple-Making Process Rey uses DOBS (Discovery Obedience Bible Studies): Discover, Obey, Bible, Share. He has developed different levels of scripture sets: Seekers – discovering Jesus. Disciples – going deeper. Leaders – training for multiplication. Vision & Tools Rey always gives the vision upfront: everyone is called to be a disciple-maker. He even draws people a simple path: Seeker → Believer → Disciple → Disciple-Maker → Leader. Anchors everything in key Scriptures: Matthew 28:18-20 (Great Commission), Matthew 22:36-39 (Great Commandment), Acts 1:8 (Need for Holy Spirit to be witnesses) and 2 Timothy 2:2 (Multiplication of disciples). DBS format follows the 4Ws: Worship Watch (share stresses) Word (Head, Heart, Hands) Work (commitments & sharing). Why Listen? Rey’s story is one of courage, obedience, and multiplication. From humble beginnings in a park in Hong Kong to movements multiplying in the Philippines and Japan, Rey’s testimony challenges us to rethink church, embrace disciple-making, and trust God’s Spirit to lead.

In this first episode from our Thailand25 gathering with movement leaders and teams from nine nations, we hear from Mike, who has seen hundreds of groups multiply in Hong Kong. He shares about modelling what you want to see multiply as a disciple maker. After all, we model what we love. 1. John 15:5–17 “This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.” (verse 8) How does modelling work in John 15?The Father models love → Jesus → disciples → others.That’s four generations of reproduction—love expressed through obedience. “They will not follow and imitate what you know but what you love.” (Mike) 2. Mike asks AI Mike asks ChatGPT how to start a DMM that will flourish and spread. Chat gives a great answer—but will Chat’s answer actually start a movement? No. Because ChatGPT doesn’t love anything! “Movements are based on love that is modelled, observed, and imitated!” (Mike) We must learn to love God and love the lost. DMM isn’t about strategies or ideas—it flows from love. And love is nurtured through prayer. Without prayer of sacrifice, there is no love for the lost. Prayer and modelling go hand in hand: modelling how much we love God and how much we love the lost. 3. Stories (Man in Wheelchair and Mike’s daughters) Man in Wheelchair: Mike and Steve share Jesus with a man in a wheelchair. Soon the community around him begins to grow in faith. He invites his wider network to hear more about Jesus. Mike doesn’t think he’s doing DMM the “right way,” yet multiplication happens. One man begins a Discovery Bible Study with another new believer—and has a vision to see him become a disciple maker too. All of this starts simply because he observed and imitated Mike’s love. Mike’s daughters: Mike’s extroverted daughter shares Jesus with someone using the beaded bracelet, just like her dad. She is imitating his love. Another time, Mike’s extremely shy daughter tells him that a “little voice” in her head is urging her to go to the park to meet a family. She obeys, meets the family, and boldly shares about Jesus with her bracelet. Love reproduces through generations. 4. Final Encouragement “If we are going to multiply, we have to keep praying. We have to keep loving the lost. Our modelling is not just for the people we are modelling to—it’s about them seeing how much we love God, how much we love the people around us, and how much we love sharing Jesus. They will see it. And they will not do what you know—they will do what they see you love.” (Mike)

In this episode of the Praxeis Podcast, we talk with Harvey Bishop from Melbourne, who has spent decades helping people follow Jesus and multiply disciples. He challenges us to be intentional about making disciples who are filled with the Spirit and equipped to multiply. Harvey’s StoryAt 21, Harvey cried out to God and experienced an instant transformation. Soon after, mentors showed him how to live as a disciple and make disciples. Harvey went on to serve 41 years in full-time ministry, with Power to Change and in disciple-making. Why Disciple-Making MattersHarvey saw many new believers fall away, which led him to focus on helping disciples grow strong and multiply. Influenced by 2 Timothy 2:2, he embraced Jesus’ call to make disciples who make disciples, training young people and international students to do the same. How Harvey Makes DisciplesHarvey prays for people, shares his testimony, shows the cost of following Jesus, and uses Discovery Bible Studies to help people walk in the Spirit and form multiplying groups. He challenges us as disciples to be intentional, Spirit-filled, and accountable so we can pass on our faith effectively. “Being filled with the Spirit is living the Spirit filled life. It’s about letting Jesus control everything I do.” The Challenge“Every Spirit-filled Christian can make disciples if they’re willing to be trained and let the Spirit guide them. There is nothing more meaningful than bringing glory to God by discipling others.” Websites and books referred to in the podcast: ‘First Steps With God’ website: https://firststepswithgod.com 📖 ‘The Man God Uses’ (Osward J Smith)

In this episode of the DMM Podcast, we hear from Sam Turner of Northland, New Zealand, as he shares at the DMM Connect gathering. Sam tells his story of moving from traditional church leadership to embracing Disciple Making Movements (DMM). His journey leads to a deep shift—from extracting people into church programs to empowering believers to reach their own communities. In the second half, two leaders from Sam’s team, Roland and Jim, share how they are using Discovery Bible Study (DBS) in their own contexts to see multiplication. Sam’s Journey into DMM When Sam arrived in New Zealand, he was struck by God’s heart for a “fatherless nation.” While serving at a local church in Paparoa, Sam felt a deep dissatisfaction comparing the book of Acts with his church’s reality. This led him to a year of daily prayer, seeking breakthrough. During this season, God gave Sam a vision of a match striking a box, igniting a fire that spread across New Zealand and beyond. The match represented a people who would stand unapologetically on God’s Word and not limit the work of the Holy Spirit. This only deepened Sam’s longing—until he encountered the DBS tool and the book Contagious Disciple Making (Dave and Paul Watson). Applying DBS first to a men’s group, Sam saw it multiply quickly. Other groups followed, and soon the church was learning principles of simplicity, modeling, and multiplication. This marked the beginning of their transition from traditional church models to a disciple-making movement mindset. Rethinking Church and Leadership Over time, big questions emerged: How does DMM relate to church? What about teaching if no one person is “leading” a DBS? Sam shares that Jesus often taught through questions—over 300 in the Gospels. Their team learned to respond with Scripture and good questions rather than top-down answers. A major paradigm shift also occurred around evangelism. Rather than extracting people into church programs, Sam’s team began empowering believers to go, serve, and invest in others. Like Jesus in John 13:3–5, leaders are called to wash feet—not gather followers to make them “like us,” but to release them to reach their own communities. Roland and Jim: Using DBS in Their Contexts Roland, from a Tuvaluan background, opened his home for Bible study. What started as two families soon grew to over 40 people—so many that everyone couldn’t share. When his wife gave birth, the large meeting stopped, but what seemed like an ending actually multiplied. The big group naturally broke into 15 DBS groups meeting in homes across the community. Jim first encountered DBS in a men’s group at Paparoa. He shares how the Holy Spirit became the true teacher, and how he wished he had this tool earlier while discipling at-risk youth with his wife. Now, Jim facilitates DBS among men, often through ManUp groups—a 10-week program for men dealing with family dysfunction, trauma, and addiction. Many of these men take DBS and pass it on to others, finding it far more effective than traditional street evangelism. Final Encouragement for Church Leaders Sam closes by urging church leaders to notice who God has placed on the hearts of the people they lead. For Roland, its forming communities that can multiply. For Jim, it’s reaching men who are struggling. For others, it will look different. The role of leaders is to serve, empower, and call people to see God’s bigger picture. Watch this episode as a video here: https://vimeo.com/1099328633?share=copy#t=2353.336

Paradigm Shifts, the Power of the Holy Spirit, and How to Pray for Movements In this episode, we continue our conversation with Vijay, co-author of Bhojpuri Breakthrough. Vijay shares paradigm-shifting insights into what leadership looks like in the context of disciple-making movements—and how the Holy Spirit and obedience to God’s Word are essential for genuine transformation in any cultural context, including the West. 🔑 Key Themes: Breakthrough leadership is upside-down.Vijay reflects on how he learned movement leadership not from titles, but from Jesus’ own example: humble, redemptive, servant-hearted. Jesus’ approach to money, gender, the marginalized, and power becomes the pattern for movement leaders today. Empowering others is the goal.Leadership is not about hierarchy but about helping others grow and take responsibility.“You have many teachers but not many fathers.” – 1 Corinthians 4:15 ‘Active theology’ leads to transformation.Leaders must ask: “How does God’s Word apply to my context?” As people obey what they learn, the Holy Spirit humbles, convicts, and transforms. Jesus is relevant in the West.While many may reject church, people are still drawn to Jesus. Vijay challenges leaders to slow down, be transformed by Jesus’ words, and internalise His message.Jesus gave the Be-attitudes, not just “do-attitudes” – Matthew 5–7 The Bible is practical and powerful.Movements grow when people apply what they learn.“Work out your salvation with fear and trembling.” – Philippians 2:12 Humility and vulnerability are leadership strengths.Rather than hiding struggles, Vijay encourages honesty and authenticity in leadership.Jesus’ Parable of the Pharisee and Tax Collector – Luke 18:9–14 The Holy Spirit shapes leaders from day one.Self-awareness, forgiveness, mentorship, and avoiding dependency are all vital. Leaders live in daily transformation, empowered by the Spirit, even amid spiritual warfare. Graveyards of mission can become vineyards of revival.The Bhojpuri movement shows God can move in the darkest places. Today, over 2,000 movements globally reflect God’s hand—not man’s strategy. 🙏 How Can We Pray? For humility and Christ-likeness under pressureIn India, persecution is intensifying. Pray believers would resist retaliation and stay centred on Christ, glorifying Him even in suffering. For courage and enduranceMillions still need to hear the gospel. Pray for boldness amid political, financial, and family pressures. For purity and simplicity in the ChurchWherever tradition takes over, corruption often follows. Pray that both the Indian and Australian churches return to Scripture and live it out. For multiplication“The fruit of the harvest becomes the seed of the next harvest.” Pray that every disciple would become a disciple-maker. For open doors through prayerAsk people, “What are you praying for?” It opens a conversation. Jesus taught us that God answers prayer and does far more than we imagine. 🎧 Tune in for this deeply personal and powerful conversation about how the Spirit-led obedience of everyday people is fuelling global movements—and how you can be part of it. 📚 Resources Mentioned Bhojpuri BreakthroughThe Movement that Keeps Multiplying📖 Available on Amazon AU. Also available as an audiobook Breakthrough LeadershipInsights from an Asian Movement Leader📖 Available on Amazon AU. Also available as an e-book.

Guest: Vijay (Coauthor with Dave Coles of Bhojpuri Breakthrough and their new book Breakthrough Leadership. This is a highly commended leadership development book for us as movement leaders) In this first episode, Vijay shares his powerful journey from a traditional church mindset to becoming a catalyst for disciple-making movements across northern India. He unpacks key paradigm shifts and stories that have shaped his leadership and passion for transformation. 🔄 Paradigm Shifts in Leadership From control to empowerment—loving people without agenda among the 90 million in his region. Discipleship through godly conversation, not just conversion. Breaking the “us and them” mindset to see everyone as fellow human beings. Raising up ordinary people as leaders, not experts. 🙏 A Movement Rooted in Prayer Vijay highlights the vital role of mobilizing a culture of prayer, even in the face of ongoing persecution. 🔥 Stories from the Harvest Christian leaders continue to reach others even from prison. No financial incentives—just wholehearted, voluntary decisions to follow Jesus. Community in Christ stands in contrast to the isolation in modern Hindu society. 📘 About the Book: Breakthrough Leadership Everyone is called to disciple-making, not merely church attendance. Discipleship breaks cycles of bondage and multiplies transformation. 💬 Final Encouragement “Who am I without my worldly status?”Jesus met people without title or status. As his followers, we’re called to love without condemnation. John 3:17 – “For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.” Discipleship is a lifelong journey of becoming like Christ. The church is the fruit, not the focus—disciple-making is the core. God empowers us with forgiveness—a key to personal freedom and transformation. ⚡ Takeaway Challenge Don’t settle for being just a church member. Be an agent of transformation. Through you, God can impact families, communities—even nations. 📚 Resources Mentioned Bhojpuri BreakthroughThe Movement that Keeps Multiplying📖 Available on Amazon AU. Amazon (international) Also available as an audiobook Breakthrough LeadershipInsights from an Asian Movement Leader📖 Available on Amazon AU. Amazon (international) (Also available to read today as an e-book via Amazon)

God is doing something historic today. As Dave shares from New Zealand, we are seeing a surge of (disciple making) movements—rapid, indigenous, multiplying streams of disciples and churches—reshaping Christianity as we know it. What began decades ago with just a few movements is now exploding: over 115 million believers and 8.5 million new churches, with growth doubling every 3.5 years—impacting more than 1.4% of the world’s population. These are not renewal movements within existing churches, but harvest movements among the unreached—especially in hard, persecuted places like North India, where thousands of churches now grow where there was once spiritual drought. Movements start when God calls catalytic teams, people hungry for more, willing to shift paradigms and obey Jesus fully. They embrace discovery-based discipleship, relational gatherings, and the multiplication of leaders across generations. This could be a tipping point in global missions—a generation that could complete the Great Commission. “And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.” — Matthew 24:14 Which generation will see this? Who will run the final lap?There is only one task we carry to the finish line: to make disciples of all nations. Let’s live and lead like it depends on us! 📽️ You can watch this podcast here (NB: Dave shares from 33 minutes in): https://vimeo.com/1095829360?share=copy#t=0

In this episode from the DMM Connect gathering in Northland, NZ, Keith and Joy share their journey from serving as missionaries in Thailand to how God called them to continue living on mission back home in New Zealand. They unpack how they have been able to live missionally in their own context using simple, reproducible tools. Learning to have Spiritual Conversations (Four Quadrants) A key turning point was learning how to have spiritual conversations using the Four Quadrants (casual → meaningful → spiritual → discovery). This changed how they connected with people in their local community. Joy reflects on John 4—Jesus’ conversation with the woman at the well—and how He took this Samaritan woman on a spiritual journey as a person of peace to her community. Likewise, Keith and Joy have seen everyday people (like ‘Ruth’, a young woman from a local market) discover Jesus and share Him with others. Jesus’ strategy when sending out his disciples Keith emphasises how engaging in the harvest as key to transformation—shifting from theory to practice, from “come” to “go.” We listen in as the room explores these 4 scriptures where Jesus sends His disciples out: Mark 6:7–13 Luke 9:1–6 Matthew 9:36–10:16 Luke 10:1–11 These passages show that Jesus had compassion on the lost and taught His followers to beseech (or beg) God for workers—not for the harvest itself (which is already plentiful), but for more harvesters. It’s a key strategy of prayer that Jesus gave twice in the gospels. We know the Lords Prayer but this is another prayer Jesus commanded his disciples to pray. Keith reflects on Matthew 9:35-38… “We’ve all prayed for the harvest. But in a way, this is the wrong way to pray. Jesus is telling us the harvest is already great. What we’re imploring Him for is the workers. It’s like Jesus is healing the sick and then steps back and looks at the large crowd and realises that a different approach is needed… Even Jesus realised that it couldn’t be a one-man show. He needed a team to do what He did.” In the group discussion, we hear reflections on how traditional models often extract people from their communities to come to church. But Jesus modeled something different: staying with those who welcome you. Like the woman at the well, insiders can reach their whole communities more effectively than outsiders can. A final challenge “In a culture of ‘come,’ we’ve made the lost person into the missionary (they have to leave their comfort zone to come to church). But ‘come’ is the enemy of ‘go,’ and addition is the enemy of multiplication.” – Raj (quoting those like Jim Britts) 🎥 You can view this podcast as a video too: https://vimeo.com/1099326407

Welcome to episode 166 of the podcast. In this episode, we take you into Northland, New Zealand, where leaders like Dave, Graham, Sam, and others are wrestling with one central question: How can Discovery Bible Study (DBS) become more than a method—and instead spark a movement of disciple-making in our own context? You’ll hear stories of breakthrough, honest questions about challenges, and the shift from teaching to facilitating—from knowledge to revelation. Whether it’s with a Muslim family, a church congregation, or people in the harvest, DBS is opening hearts to the Word and multiplying impact. Let’s move beyond theory and explore how DBS can be lived out—simply, reproducibly, and powerfully—wherever you are. 🎤 Dave’s Discovery of DBS Dave first encountered DBS through David Watson’s work in Africa. He began applying it with a Muslim family, using simple inductive Bible study questions. Key quote: “Power of God plus the Word of God put together makes disciples that multiply.” His journey reflects a shift in mindset: From using tools to tell people what Scripture says ➝ to trusting God’s Word and Spirit to speak directly. From knowledge-based to revelation-based engagement. From teaching to facilitating. From expert-led ➝ to anyone can lead, even non-believers. Coaches must help contextualize the Scripture set (not just use Creation to Christ for every setting). Keep it simple: as easy as ABC – Ask, Bible, Commit (6–7 core questions). DBS is not just for Christians; non-Christians can also hear and obey God’s Word. Retelling is key so people can pass on what they’ve heard. “This God is someone who wants to have relationship.”– Muslim man expressing his first discovery of God through DBS on Genesis 1. 🙌 Sam Turner’s Journey Sam shares his wrestle with DBS, particularly applying it within a church setting, then seeing it multiply outside. He describes key paradigm shifts: Getting out of the way as a teacher. Discovery leads to internal conviction, not just external teaching. In his church, they started passing the mic around after sermons, asking people to share their discoveries and applications. DBS is not about growing my church—it’s about growing the Kingdom. Multiplication over addition. A challenging but catalytic question:“Who within my sphere of influence could catalyse groups?” 💬 Live Group Reflections What happens when obedience is hard for Christians? One great DBS question:“How should I change my thinking or actions from this story?” Powerful moment during a DBS on Luke 24:13–49 (Road to Emmaus): A long-time Bible teacher said, “You’ve ruined me as 40 years of Bible teaching!” after experiencing DBS for the first time. Others shared how the group dynamic gave multiple “facets” of a passage—“like a diamond.” The Resurrected Jesus (living testimony) and the Scriptures work powerfully hand-in-hand in mission. 💡 Reflective Challenge As you reflect on what you’ve heard—from internal wrestles to surprising fruit—ask yourself: How might you tweak or implement DBS with those in your own context?What shift—big or small—could you make this week to move from teaching to discovery, from addition to multiplication? Check out the video of this podcast episode here: https://vimeo.com/showcase/11766423/video/1099331027